Robin,
 
This is in response to an entry you made on May 8, regarding multiple language learning children.  
Both of my girls speak, read and write English, Spanish, French and Galician fluently. While living in the US, the language spoken at home was Spanish.  In Spain, it was English.  In school and with friends and family, they spoke and learned Spanish and Galician.  French was purely academic.  Primary language, i.e. Spanish in the US, English is Spain,  was practiced and studied at home when they were not part of an academic curriculum.  Galician was learned and spoken in school and practiced with Galician speaking friends and family.  French was purely academic learned, practiced and spoken in class.   I think the success they have had  learning each language is that in order to communicate there was exclusivity.
 
Thanks, 
Jo Ann Medina-Scholtz


To: dezreen at excite.com; englishlanguage at nifl.govDate: Thu, 8 May 2008 13:44:42 -0400From: robinschwarz1 at aol.comSubject: [EnglishLanguage 2359] Re: learning multiple languages
Kathleen-- first, I have to disagree that the fact of being exposed to native speakers of  a language is ignored in language learning research. On the contrary, my recent foray into adult language acquisition made it extremely clear that this is a critical factor in how fast and how well adults learn language-- children, too, for that matter.  Second, I love your example of learning Japanese-- I studied French formally in foreign language classes for 6 years (2 high school and four in college, with numerous courses, not one per semester) and then 20 weeks of intensive French in Peace Corps training (I was in an unusual two-summer training program the PC was experimenting with) --this was 8 hours a day, 7 of those with a speaker of French who was either native or spoke FSL, 1 hour in a language lab-- and then more French on site in my country.  Though I scored very high in all French courses, I could not ask for a bar of soap at the local store when I actually had to use French!!!   I, too, learned on the ground, responding to my students and neighbors and store keepers.  I learned a local language the same way -class time helped me with pronunciation and new sounds and entirely new grammar structures, but actual usage came from having to talk to people in my town.   I LOVE learning language s the formal way, but know from experience, that actual usable language for me came from having to use it as I needed it.   That students do not learn if the lessons are not relevant is one of the corner stones of my personal work in adult ESOL.   Recently I have heard even more wonderful stories of students eagerly doing work--homework and self-designed activities in the class setting--when they were learning what they came to class for: English they need for very specific circumstances.  For example, two teachers I met recently in very different places related stories about individual learners who were working at the counter in McDonald's and risked losing their jobs because they could not understand what customers wanted nor could they be understood by customers and co-workers.  Both teachers went to McDonald's, got menus and other teaching materials Mc Donald's provides, and helped their learners devise ways to learn to recognize and say all the items on the menu plus the standard questions and answers needed at the food counter.   Both students learned all this v ocabulary in two weeks!  And of COURSE came back for more help on other specific needs.   These stories, plus some pretty compelling research, convince me that unless we pay attention to what EXACTLY our students come to English classes for, we continue to risk losing them in droves.  Perhaps this list remembers my referring to a study reported on at the Meeting of the Minds in Sacramento CA in Dec 2006 . An ESOL teacher in the Denver area did a remarkable study with Mexican mothers of children in the local schools.  This teacher wanted to prove what she knew: that these mothers were EXTREMELY interested in learning English because they wanted to keep track of their children's progress in school and wanted to communicate with the schools effectively. The schools, which offered standard family ESL programs for parents and had the usual 70-90% dropout rates, had concluded that parents were just not motivated to learn English.   In the study, the teacher taught other ESOL teachers how to do REAL project based learning, then set up a class for Mexican mothers and had a control class of regular ESOL with the usual vocabulary and grammar instruction. The mothers' class created projects according to what the mothers perceived were the topics of gre at interest to them: how to understand report cards, how to understand homework assignments, how to talk to principals and teachers about concerns about their children, etc.  The participants designed all their own projects and teachers helped with finding resources and answering questions.   The mothers' class had an 80% + attendance rate over the months of the study and gained 24 points on the BEST test, while the control group had a less than 30% retention/attendance rate and gained more or less 7 points on the BEST test.  Here motivation was everything-- the mothers were learning EXACTLY what they wanted and needed to learn while the others were being offered an English-as-a-foreign-language class. We as ESOL teachers KNOW that students ULTIMATELY need all the English and grammar we want to teach them, but the problem is that teaching does NOT address adult ESOL learners' specific, urgent needs, and they get impatient.  I could, and do, I know, go on and on about this topic, which is extremely compelling in  terms of retention/persistence,  better learner outcomes on standardized testing etc.   I hope these examples help others to reflect, as you are Kathleen, on whether what you are teaching is actually what learners need and want to learn NOW.   Robin Lovrien Schwarz, Independent Consultant in Adult ESOL and Learning Difficulties 

-----Original Message-----From: kathleen morgan <dezreen at excite.com>To: englishlanguage at nifl.govSent: Tue, 6 May 2008 7:09 pmSubject: [EnglishLanguage 2335] Re: learning multiple languages

I agree with the 'more language, more enjoyment' philosopy as well. When 
frustrated with my language learning or in watching a student not make much 
progress, I remind myself that motivation is tied to need of use w hich is tied 
to being happy because you can communicate. Are my students not learning because 
the curriculum doesn't connect with their life needs and therefore their 
happiness? Do you know many people who have become highly fluent in a new 
language by learning in isolation with limited interaction or natural practice? 

Friends of mine who 'know' many languages can easily identify what they need 
each language for - to talk with their cleaning lady, to buy a newspaper or 
train ticket, to function at their job, etc. They are not necessarily highly 
fluent, but their motivation is tied to living in a multi-linguistic community 
and needing to communicate. 

Ultimately, I believe that all language learners need a lot of exposure to 
native speakers and feel that this is ignored a great deal in language learning 
research. I think that adults rarely take the time to really just listen to a 
new language. When I lived in Japan for a year I politely declined Japanese 
lessons having just been released from 10 years of high school and college level 
Spanish instruction with zero connection to my needs. After 1-2 months in Japan, 
I had learned so much on the subconscious level but could not explain that to 
others (who all thought I was mad). I began to understand bits of conversation 
and spoke when I thought I could handle it. At around 3 months, I was ready for 
more structure and had questions! By 9 months, all sorts of words and phrases I 
had never 'learned' in a structured environment were spilling out of my mouth, 
much to the surprise of my doubting, dedicated kanji-studying friends. 

In the end, I have found that the best lessons in my classroom are when my 
students are having so much fun interacting that they don't have time to think 
about what they are saying. Isn't that what fun is all about?

Kathleen
Telluride CO



>

robinschwarz1 at aol.com



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