Pay For Performance; Good For Security
The next time you’re in the security line at your local airport, contemplating the 3-1-1 liquids rule or the possibility of making it home in time to tuck your kids into bed, take a quick look at the officers at the checkpoint.
Right there in front of you are some of the most tested professionals inside or outside of government. At any time, 24/7/365 TSA, DHS or GAO testers can and do test our officers’ ability to detect items that could be used in an attack. Our belief is that rewarding excellent performers is one way to motivate a workforce with a deadly serious job to do. Conversely, not rewarding mediocre performance based solely on seniority is a way to motivate people to step up or consider other career options.
Yesterday, our Deputy Administrator, Gale Rossides testified before members of Congress on TSA’s pay-for-performance compensation system. Along side colleagues from the intelligence and law enforcement communities, she clearly explained that our system provides incentives to the best performing officers. Nowhere is this more important than on the frontlines of our nation’s efforts to keep its citizens safe. We thought you might find her opening statement interesting and thought provoking. For her more comprehensive, written testimony, click here.
UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY
TRANSPORTATION SECURITY ADMINISTRATION
Oral Statement
of
GALE ROSSIDES
DEPUTY ADMINISTRATOR, TSA
Before the
UNITED STATES SENATE
COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS
SUBCOMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT OF GOVERNMENT MANAGEMENT, THE FEDERAL WORKFORCE, AND THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA
JULY 22, 2008
Good afternoon, Chairman Akaka, Ranking Member Voinovich, and distinguished members of the Subcommittee. I am pleased to be here today to discuss TSA's progress on our pay-for-performance system, known as PASS [Performance Accountability and Standards System].
I am honored to appear and represent the thousands of TSA employees, our Transportation Security Officers [TSOs], who serve to ensure the safety and security of 2 million passengers a day. These women and men are dedicated security professionals with one of the most difficult jobs in government. These Officers are the most tested in the Federal workforce. Contrary to what so often is the headline grabber about attrition, 22,000 of our Officers have been with TSA from the beginning. They have participated in the largest stand-up of a Federal agency in fifty years. They have stayed with us as we responded to the evolving threat by continuously enhancing the security process, while also building the infrastructure and the human capital system to properly pay, train, reward, and recognize their performance. They stayed for the mission.
There are two reasons TSA relies on pay for performance. Security is the first and foremost. Second, it is to instill a culture of high performance and accountability in our workforce.
Performance on the job has a special meaning for us. Let me be very direct. Our job is to stop a terrorist attack. Our Officers work in an environment in which 99.9 percent of the people they see every day are not a threat, but the threats against our aviation system remain. TSOs want to get passengers through the security checkpoint with a high degree of confidence that they have stopped anyone seeking to do harm—your safety is their priority.
How does PASS improve security? When you get paid more to do a better job, you do a better job. PASS is targeted to reward excellent performance. That is an incentive to perform at the highest level to which you are capable. PASS rewards the individual performance necessary to achieve TSA's organizational goals and that increases security.
TSA's pay-for-performance system is driven by validated data. Its performance metrics are standardized, measurable, observable and almost completely objective. PASS has been adjusted based on feedback from our Officers about what the real job is.
Our Officers have told us they want a pay-for-performance system because they know what is at stake: they want to know that their fellow officers are equally competent. But building a pay-for-performance system takes time. It takes employee engagement. It takes leadership. It takes flexibilities in the human capital system. It takes continuous improvement and it takes constant communication. But for us, it is essential. In my thirty years of Federal service, twenty-three of them with the General Schedule, I have never been more sure of anything: The pay-for-performance system is the best way in this post 9/11 environment, for TSA to manage and ensure the quality of persons on the front line.
The effectiveness of PASS is proven by the statistics. More than half of our TSO workforce has been on the job for four years or more. The 2007 DHS Annual Employee Survey validates that 94 percent of TSOs said the work they do is important. Eighty-three percent said they know how their work relates to the agency's goals and priorities.
TSA supervisors have a significant stake in the PASS program as well, and they are evaluated on how effectively and fairly they administer it. Successful implementation of the program is a component of their own PASS ratings.
At TSA, pay for performance ensures the technical proficiency of the people on the front line. Our goal is for our Officers to be switched on and always at the ready. Pay for performance drives their higher level of performance because their earning power is directly tied to their learning power.
The Senior Leadership Team of TSA is passionately dedicated to our people and the principles of pay-for-performance. We are committed to using the flexible human capital system provided under ATSA to make TSA a model performance-based organization. We are building a culture in which our workforce is actively engaged. It is through listening and working collaboratively with all of our Officers to find solutions that we will continue to meet our challenges.
While significant advances are being made in our technology and security processes, each day's success begins and ends with our Officers. They are TSA's greatest investment. They are everyday heroes. In this war on terror, the individual motivation of our Officers to excel is critical to our success. We rely on the best to do the best at this security job. Pay-for-performance is vital to sustaining this top performing workforce.
posted by Christopher at
2:19 PM
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208 Comments:
Where has TSA published up-to-date copies of all rules and regulations that TSA requires someone to abide by in order to fly via commercial air from one American state to another without leaving the country?
July 23, 2008 2:40 PM
In comment section for the "Checkpoint Changes Coming" post, in response to TSA Director Kip Hawley's statement:
"[Adding layers of security in order to be effective against adaptive terrorists] means adding a capability to detect a potential problem even if they are not carrying anything prohibited -- in other words, more focus on people, not just things. That means deploying more officers specially trained in behavior detection and document checking to identify people that intend to do harm, not just waiting to find their prohibited item in a carry-on bag."
I posed the following as-yet-unanswered questions:
1. What is an "adaptive terrorist"?
2. Please provide an example of a potential airline passenger who although not attempting to carry on anything prohibited, has such a great potential to cause a problem that he should be barred from traveling.
3. How does the punishment of being barred from air travel, not for a crime that has been committed or for the attempt to commit a crime, but for the perceived potential to commit a crime, judged by any one of thousands of TSA agents, without any indication of an attempt to commit a crime, much less conviction of such by a judge or jury, fit with your interpretation of the United States Constitution?
4. How do you expect that checking documents will identify people who intend to do harm?
July 23, 2008 2:45 PM
1. Do the electronic strip-search machines (both backscatter imaging and "millimeter wave" versions) show operators only still images, or animated/video images?
2. If the latter, where can we see a sample of what that video looks like?
July 23, 2008 2:47 PM
Punishing poor performance is as important as rewarding good performance.
What punishments were metered out to the TSOs who made a 71-year old man drop his pants in public view because of a knee-replacement or the TSOs who made a 16-year-old girl drop her pants to a TSO to show her artificial leg?
http://tinyurl.com/6nos9g
Why can't TSA do something as simple and respectful as issue a public apology to these victims of your abusive, unaccountable, out-of-control agency?
You should be ashamed of yourselves for allowing this kind of abuse to go on. When you terminate the culpable TSOs, charge them with criminal conduct (including abuse of a minor) under color of authority where appropriate, force TSA and the TSOs to pay compensation to the victims, and name the perpetrators in public press releases or open court, then I will consider giving your TSOs a bit of respect.
July 23, 2008 2:48 PM
Speaking as a TSO it's always nice to know your job is appreciated and to be rewarded for performance. I'm sure there will be some who will post their bad experiences with a few TSO's in response to this. The important thing to remember is that more often than anything the TSO reflects back whatever vibe you send them. We strive to give the higest level of customer service possible but if you come through the checkpoint in a bad mood as much as we try to provide high quality service and security for you, you will never see that. People are so inclined to focus on anything negative when they feel negative that they often overlook everything else around them that is positive.
Try to remember to notice all the good along with the perceived negatives the next time you fly.
July 23, 2008 2:50 PM
Nice. So you're STILL not answering the questions (remember the top 10 from last week, let alone the ones we've been asking repeatedly) but you can post a fluff piece like this?
Anyway, I found this quote interesting:
Quote from Christopher: "Right there in front of you are some of the most tested professionals inside or outside of government. At any time, 24/7/365 TSA, DHS or GAO testers can and do test our officers’ ability to detect items that could be used in an attack. Our belief is that rewarding excellent performers is one way to motivate a workforce with a deadly serious job to do. Conversely, not rewarding mediocre performance based solely on seniority is a way to motivate people to step up or consider other career options."
So what do we get for lack of performance? TSA has a repeatedly failed these tests with such a low percentage (around 30% success last I checked). I don't think that this is performance that should be rewarded. We need significant, REAL gains. For example saying your 20% better than you were is still failing (that'd be 36% success instead of 30% in this example).
Why couldn't this week's post address something relevant, like TSA wanting to fine Chicago for being vigilant and detaining TSA testers while they were verified their identities. Or Fliers complaining about X-rated screenings? In this case, TSA won't answer their questions. Then again, should we be surprised?
And you guys want us to pay you MORE for THIS poor performance? Don't think so. Try earning the money you get first and when you're doing a good job, THEN we'll talk about giving you more.
Robert
July 23, 2008 2:53 PM
http://cbs2chicago.com/investigations/xrated.security.screenings.2.777423.html
July 23, 2008 3:01 PM
So, will this make it easier to bribe my way past security? Oil-producing nations flush with greenbacks and hate of US foreign policy wanna know!!
July 23, 2008 3:12 PM
And yet, the pay banding system is horribly unpopular with much of the workforce, many of whom would prefer the GS scale system.
July 23, 2008 3:13 PM
I have a better name for it:
Performance Accountability and Standards System in Government Administered Security, or..
PASS GAS
:)
July 23, 2008 3:33 PM
Are these screeners examples of the best of the best you're talking about in this press release?
July 23, 2008 3:37 PM
I have power! I have power!
http://cbs2chicago.com/investigations/xrated.security.screenings.2.777423.html
July 23, 2008 3:38 PM
How does PASS improve security? When you get paid more to do a better job, you do a better job. PASS is targeted to reward excellent performance. That is an incentive to perform at the highest level to which you are capable. PASS rewards the individual performance necessary to achieve TSA's organizational goals and that increases security.
I had an employer who paid bonuses based on performance, once upon a time. It didn't last long, though, since the "performance" that ended up happening was people cheating the system.
Now, since they don't pay performance-based bonuses, how do they keep me and my coworkers on our toes? We all know that if we screw up, there's a tremendous pool of people willing to step into our jobs, and no fear on the part of management to drop bad employees.
Its funny, now we work even harder and do better than we did before, when its our job on the line instead of a few extra bucks.
July 23, 2008 3:48 PM
How would this work, exactly? I was thinking....
$1....bonus for every shampoo bottle confiscated
$1....bonus for every water bottle confiscated
$1....bonus per minute spent on a secordary search of someone who alerts the metal detector
$2....bonus everytime you have to tell someone to take their shoes off
$3....bonus for catching a passenger using the wrong size re-sealable baggie
$3....bonus for each "random" pat-down of whomever you feel like searching, even though they're not a selectee and they haven't alerted the metal detector
$4....bonus for "busting" a customer who try to enter the metal detector without being motioned through or without a boarding pass "in hand".
$5....bonus for every passenger turned away from the security checkpoint for failure to produce ID.
$5....bonus every time you "rescue" a laptop computer from going into the scanner with other items in the same bin.
$5....bonus for every "big catch" involving a nervous passenger selected for SSSS based on the 'behavior detection' program
$50....bonus per knife confiscated
$100....bonus per gun confiscated
$500....bonus per bomb confiscated
Similarly, the bonuses should be deducted from salary when TSOs fail to detect these items.
July 23, 2008 3:52 PM
It would be nice for the TSA to test for "good behavior" as much as detection within the pay-for-performance system. You should have test passengers go through with artificial limbs, piercings, asking to talk to a supervisor, making off color comments, etc.
July 23, 2008 3:57 PM
Most "Pay for Performance" systems I have seen can be, and are, "gamed" on a regular basis by those being "measured."
Why is this?
Because in setting up most systems that base pay or promotion on readily measured criteria set criteria that often have little to do with actual performance.
Let's looks at one tiny part of one such system: Determining a person's pay and promotability on number of years of school attended. This is based on an assumption that a college graduate will be more valuable to the company than someone who is not.
It is an easily measured metric, write a number or check a box, and the one with the higher mark wins.
Measuring ACTUAL PERFORMANCE of the employee, however, is a totally different matter.
An unenthusiastic non-self-starter with a degree in underwater basket weaving is actually unlikely to be more valuable than an enthusiastic self-starter who's always had to make it on their own (and therefore may not have been able to attend college).
OK, back to TSA...
From what was said we don't know what the metrics are to determine "performance" of a TSO. All we do know is that they are "TSA's pay-for-performance system is driven by validated data. Its performance metrics are standardized, measurable, observable and almost completely objective."
Hopefully those metrics are not based on how many half full 3.5 ounce tubes of toothpaste are discarded per hour by a TSO, or something similarly nonsensical and game-able. (More points for stopping more things? OK, I'll just stop more things that really could go through.)
Now don't get excited about what I just said, it is only supposition for the sake of example because I DO NOT KNOW what those easily measured objective metrics are based on.
All I'm trying to highlight is that in those pay (or promotion) for performance systems with questionable results that I have seen, the fault was in the setting of the metrics to simple things that could be gamed.
When I was a manager I really enjoyed having a team composed mostly of people who didn't quite fit into corporate culture comfortably. I had a long-haired, odd dressing, bearded, pierced bunch of rugged individualists, many of whom did not have college educations. I was sent the "problem" folks, and welcomed them. Each of them was more creative and more productive than the average button-down-collar wearing corporate plug-in personality. Our productivity, quality, and ability to tackle new, never-been-done-before projects was among the best in our 14 state area.
I'm not sure there was an easy, obvious metric for the work of any of those unique individuals, but overall, giving them challenges that fit their individual styles, AS A TEAM we were unbeatable.
BTW, I suspect that most of my folks had IQs well above average...
July 23, 2008 4:08 PM
Now for the other side of the story:
Fliers Complain About X-Rated Security Screenings
TSA Agents Forced Woman To Remove Nipple Rings, Pulled Pants Off Disabled Man
Reporting
Pam Zekman When travelers go to the airport, they know what kind of security to expect: luggage searches, metal detectors and shoe inspections.
It's all part of our post 9-11 reality enforced by the Transportation Security Adminstration. But as CBS 2 Investigator Pam Zekman reports, thousands of travelers have complained that some of these screenings can become abusive and even x-rated.
For arguing with a TSA agent, Robin Kassner wound up being slammed to the floor. She's filed a lawsuit.
"I kept begging them over and over again get off of me ... and they wouldn't stop," Kassner said.
And it wasn't enough for another woman to show TSA agents nipple rings that set off a metal detector. The agents forced her to take them out.
Mandi Hamlin said, "I had to get pliers and pull it apart."
In Chicago, people like Robert Perry are subjected to exhaustive security checks. He was patted down, his wheel chair was examined and his hands were swabbed, all in public view in a see-through room at the security checkpoint. Perry, 71, is not alone
"It's humiliation," Perry said.
Perry was also taken to a see-through room by a TSA agent when his artificial knee set off the metal detector.
"He yelled at me to get the belt off. 'I told you to get the belt off.' So I took the belt off. He ran his hands down over and pulled the pants down, they went down around my ankle," Perry said.
At that point, Perry was standing in his underwear in public view. He asked to see a supervisor. That made things worse.
"She was yelling 'I have power, I have power, I have power," Perry said. The power to stop him from flying to Florida with his wife that day to celebrate their 50th wedding anniversary.
"It makes you feel like you have no rights," Perry said.
Perry said he always alerts TSA agents about his metal knee and wonders why they can't just check his leg.
"If somebody told me that I would save the people on the airplane by taking my pants off out in public out there, I wouldn't mind doing it, but this was not necessary," Perry said.
TSA officials said that when the metal detectors go off, their agents must resolve what caused the alarm. But experts have said it's important to use common sense when balancing security and customer service.
Carlos Villarreal, former director of security for the Sears Tower, said proper training is crucial. "When you're wanding somebody and you can identify which part of the body set of the alarm, that should be sufficient to clear a person," Villarreal said.
But all too often, it's not enough for 16-year old Michael Angone. She frequently flies as a member of the Chicago Children's Choir.
"I've had to completely take my pants off and show them like my entire leg," Angone said.
As a baby, Angone was diagnosed with cancer. Her parents, both Chicago police officers, had to have her leg amputated. She said she always warns TSA security agents that her prosthetic leg will set off the metal detector, but many insist on doing an embarrassing full body pat-down.
"I feel like I'm being felt up in public," Angone said.
Her father Bob Angone wanted to know, "What's the reason for all the feeling up, you know the groping at the back of the neck, the chest, underneath the bra, all the groping on her body, her buttocks?"
CBS 2 News asked the TSA those questions, but got no answers.
"The key word here is reasonable, and they have gone off the track. They are not reasonable," Bob Angone said.
The TSA declined to comment on the Angone and Perry cases, but the agency has announced that soon, passengers who set off an alarm that cannot be resolved will have a choice: Agree to a physical pat-down or what some believe is an even worse invasion of privacy.
This fall, O'Hare International Airport will get its first advanced digital x-ray machine. It allows TSA agents to see through clothes and discover any hidden weapons. Critics have likened it to a virtual strip search.
A spokesman said that out of 2 billion passengers screened nationwide since 9-11, there have been only 110,000 abuse complaints.
As for the nipple ring case, TSA did change its procedures regarding body piercings.
July 23, 2008 4:20 PM
Pablum for the masses, pure pablum.
A totally self-serving post.
Tell the public relations department to stop feeding you this stuff -- it makes them feel good but does nothing for the people who are routinely subjected to your trampling of our Constitutional rights and the "we are only following orders" mentality of the blue shirts manning the checkpoints.
July 23, 2008 4:28 PM
Simple question for you, Christopher:
Does yourt agency have to comply with all of the provisions in the Americans with Disabilities Act?
If yes, do you comply.
If no, why not?
(I can see the answer now -- you are going to tell me that you are all warm puppy-dog loving people who would love to comply but the nasty owners of the airport won't allow it.)
July 23, 2008 4:31 PM
http://cbs2chicago.com/investigations/xrated.security.screenings.2.777423.html
Seems to be working well!
July 23, 2008 4:32 PM
See? See? THIS is what I'm talking about! From CBS2Chicago:
In Chicago, people like Robert Perry are subjected to exhaustive security checks. He was patted down, his wheel chair was examined and his hands were swabbed, all in public view in a see-through room at the security checkpoint. Perry, 71, is not alone
"It's humiliation," Perry said.
Perry was also taken to a see-through room by a TSA agent when his artificial knee set off the metal detector.
"He yelled at me to get the belt off. 'I told you to get the belt off.' So I took the belt off. He ran his hands down over and pulled the pants down, they went down around my ankle," Perry said.
At that point, Perry was standing in his underwear in public view.
...
"It makes you feel like you have no rights," Perry said.
Here's the link to the full article.
http://cbs2chicago.com/investigations/xrated.security.screenings.2.777423.html
See, TSA? See what your people do to us? We're American citizens, we have rights, and treating us like animals is WRONG. Go ahead, respond to this article, you cowards.
July 23, 2008 4:48 PM
TSA shouldn't even be posting these blogs. It should just be a page of passenger comments(complaints). No blogs. As we can see from all of Phil's wonderful questions, the blog is ignored and people are going to write whatever they want to write anyways.
And by the way I am not against TSA. I think that these blog pages have gone in the wrong direction. And really are kind of annoying. Especially the repedative postings from the same people. Blah Blah Blah Blah
July 23, 2008 5:00 PM
Pssst, answer the questions and the PITAs will go away. Don't answer the questions and the most vocal will get others involved (sort of like the one barking dog getting all of the neighborhood dogs barking).
I would have thought that the movers and shakers at TSA hdqs would see that.
July 23, 2008 5:15 PM
"only" 110,000 complaints of abuse from pax since the TSA's inception?
The TSA should be ashamed of its performance with numbers like that.
(see links in others posts in this thread 'cause I can't link)
July 23, 2008 5:19 PM
It is interesting to note that the TSA has NO problem in blowing their own horn when they have something good to say about themselves, but one thing I noticed reading all the bad press is "The TSA has declined to comment".
Has there ever been an instance where the TSA has told us the real reason or the final outcome of their "looking into it" when things happen to the persons featured in the above comments?
To be positive though, I do have to give kudos to the agents that are dedicated and continue to do their job with integrity. Thank you for your service.
July 23, 2008 5:20 PM
Colby said....People are so inclined to focus on anything negative when they feel negative that they often overlook everything else around them that is positive.
Try to remember to notice all the good along with the perceived negatives the next time you fly.
July 23, 2008 2:50 PM
I find it rather difficult to be all positive and chiper when being treated like a common crimminal by my local chapter of the TSA.
Maybe the screening experience is at fault, eh?
July 23, 2008 5:25 PM
Anonymous said...
How would this work, exactly? I was thinking....
You left off $1000 for publicly humiliating an amputee.
$2000, for humiliating a minor who's an amputee.
$5000, for abusing the elderly and laughing at their misery.
$10,000 when your actions result in the premature death of anyone.
You get docked $1,000 for doing anything that embarrasses TSA.
You get docked $2,000 for doing anything that has The National Enquirer following Kip around asking questions.
You get docked $5,000 for doing anything that results in Kip etal having to testify in court.
You get docked $10,000 for doing anything that results in Kip etal being forced to testify at a Congressional inquiry.
July 23, 2008 5:33 PM
Quote from Anonymous: "TSA shouldn't even be posting these blogs. It should just be a page of passenger comments(complaints). No blogs. As we can see from all of Phil's wonderful questions, the blog is ignored and people are going to write whatever they want to write anyways.
And by the way I am not against TSA. I think that these blog pages have gone in the wrong direction. And really are kind of annoying. Especially the repedative postings from the s"
I'd love to move onto other topics AFTER the ones being discussed are resolved first. Unfortunately, TSA keeps promising answers to questions and moves onto the next topic hoping we'll forget. We're reminding them that we're not.
HSVTSO Dean is the only one that's made good on a promise to get back with an answer. Sometimes it takes him awhile, but he's not being paid to answer questions for TSA and it's on his own time so I give the guy slack. He at least tries to give us real, no BS answers within his constraints. I may not agree with his answers, but at least he makes an honest effort ... much more of one than the TSA Spinolas.
I get tired of harping on the same stuff all the time. I really do. I'm sure others here do. However, the questions we're asking are too important to let go. The answers are important and we're not getting them.
So instead of directing anger at us for asking the questions, how about directing it at TSA for not answering them (and more than just fluff answers with no justification other than "we say so" or "trust us").
Robert
July 23, 2008 5:37 PM
Please post a link to the standardized, measurable, observable and almost completely objective" performance metrics that will be used. I am curious how they prevent all the bad behavior we read about and see daily when going through checkpoints. I suspect it will simply encourage catching more false positives in order to boost numbers: "Oh look, this hair-tie could conceivably be used as an elastic in a hand held catapult, I'll call it a realistic weapon - bringing me up to my monthly quota."
Whom am I kidding, you won't post the metrics.
The only thing evolutionary about this blog is how it has evolved into a press release page with comments.
July 23, 2008 5:59 PM
Remember, the stick is just as important as the carrot. Everyone invloved in the incidents that get on the news should be at the very least demoted to a position where they don't deal with passengers and fired in the worst cases (I'd say about half of the complaints should be treated as such).
July 23, 2008 6:29 PM
Take it easy Phil & Robert Johnson. I know you're our biggest fans and all, but jeesh...
Our reader's top 10 questions will be answered in due time.
Some folks seem to think that each time we publish a new post that we're trying to erase the last one.
That is just not the case. We strive every week to publish 2 - 3 blog posts. Some pieces are more controversial than others. It's been like that since the beginning of the blog.
Bob
EoS Blog Team
July 23, 2008 6:39 PM
"Try to remember to notice all the good along with the perceived negatives the next time you fly."
There's just about no good that comes from the TSA. You know what are the two things that would stop a hijacking? The hardened cockpit door and the passengers. Just about everything else you do is pointless and does nothing to enhance security. X-ray my bag, let me keep my shampoo and walk through a metal detector with my shoes on, and go spend your time doing something useful, like screening cargo.
July 23, 2008 7:06 PM
OK folks, I had to check to make sure I was even moderating the correct blog post. These comments are soooo far off topic.
So, if your post doesn't show up, now you know why.
We are going to answer your top 10 questions. I believe I explained in my blog post when I said:
"We’ll try to get them all posted within a week."
Sorry to be short, but lets stay on topic here.
Bob
EoS Blog Team
July 23, 2008 7:07 PM
phil said:
1. What is an "adaptive terrorist"?
The first thing that comes to mind, is a terrorist who get's used to what we do, eveolves. Like a chameleon.
2. Please provide an example of a potential airline passenger who although not attempting to carry on anything prohibited, has such a great potential to cause a problem that he should be barred from traveling.
Someone who comes through before/ inside the SIDA who says bomb, explosives, or other similar things.
July 23, 2008 7:33 PM
The PASS system is severely flawed in that not all TOP PERFORMERS get rewarded equally. And some low performers get rewarded for a job not so well done. Its time for TSA to stop fudging the numbers and tell the truth regarding PASS, it's unfair, biased, and does not reward those who most deserve it. Ask the American Federation of Government Employees about PASS.
July 23, 2008 7:46 PM
Christopher quotes TSA Deputy Administrator Gale Rossides as saying:
"Let me be very direct. Our job is to stop a terrorist attack."
Wrong. TSA's job is to protect the nation’s transportation systems to ensure freedom of movement for people and commerce.
"Our Officers work in an environment in which 99.9 percent of the people they see every day are not a threat"
Christopher, does TSA believe that 0.1% of the people that airport checkpoint agents see -- that is one out of every 1,000 -- are threats?
How does TSA define "terrorist"? Does it include (quoting John Gilmore) any IRA member from the last twenty years? A member of the Irgun (led by former Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin)? Nelson Mandela, imprisoned for sabotage for 27 years by the South African government? A WTO protester? The US Government killed more Afghani civilians in the [2002] than the number of US people killed on 9/11; does that make US soldiers terrorists? Israel and Palestine both claim that the other is terrorist. So do India and Pakistan. So do leftists and rightists in Colombia.
If TSA is so wrapped up in dealing with the over-hyped threat of terrorist attack that its Deputy Administrator has forgotten the organization's true mission, so much that you expect us to accept your policy of restricting freedom of movement based on a blacklist labeled "terrorist watch list", surely you can define "terrorist" for us.
July 23, 2008 7:54 PM
Bob, when your agency begins to show even a modicum of responsiveness to legitimate questions from the citizens you are supposed to be serving, maybe then you'll have cause to whine that we're not sticking to the topic. Until then, we will continue to push for honest answers to simple questions without worrying if it's giving you the vapors.
July 23, 2008 7:59 PM
Quote from Anonymous: "Someone who comes through before/ inside the SIDA who says bomb, explosives, or other similar things."
Unfortunately, those aren't actionable UNTIL they say it. Unless we're going to start having Minority Report style "precrime" punishments.
Quote from Bob: "Sorry to be short, but lets stay on topic here."
Bob, a lot of these posts ARE on topic. If you can't see how "pay for performance" relates to what we, as a flying public see with the cited articles, then there are some problems. We don't think TSA should be rewarded for doing a bad job and such. You're saying that you think doing a good job should be rewarded. I generally agree with that. However, I also think that bad behavior and doing a bad job should also carry penalties. We see a serious lack of accountability on TSA's part.
You can't expect pay for good performance without holding the bad apples accountable and terminating them if necessary. The two go hand in hand.
Robert
July 23, 2008 8:11 PM
Bob said...
OK folks, I had to check to make sure I was even moderating the correct blog post. These comments are soooo far off topic.
So, if your post doesn't show up, now you know why.
We are going to answer your top 10 questions. I believe I explained in my blog post when I said:
"We’ll try to get them all posted within a week."
Sorry to be short, but lets stay on topic here.
What might help to calm the restless people is to post what questions you will be answering. Let us know what the top ten are so we can look forward to your responses.
July 23, 2008 8:18 PM
Anonymous said...
Someone who comes through before/ inside the SIDA who says bomb, explosives, or other similar things.
Wait a second, are you claiming that the sterile area is now SIDA (Security Identification Display Area) ?
July 23, 2008 9:17 PM
Sorry to be short, but lets stay on topic here.
Bob
EoS Blog Team
How about you TSA types post something other than PR bits that no one cares about?
How about instead of not talking about ID checking and why some of us think it violates our civil rights step up and talk about it?
How about trying to give us some insight into the insanity that we see at the checkpoints?
How about getting some of your subject matter experts to do some posts about the issues they see at the checkpoint?
An educated populace will be more likely to work with you than a group kept in the dark.
TSA has an excellent opportunity to use this space for so much good, sadly it seems your staff lacks the skills to do so.
July 23, 2008 10:29 PM
interesting read this
http://www.afge.org/index.cfm?page=PressReleases&PressReleaseID=875
July 23, 2008 11:22 PM
Blog staffers: please consider that the reason ya'll get so many off-topic posts is because you don't bother to answer the ones that are on-topic, so to us it doesn't seem to matter what we say.
But okay, I'll bite, and comment directly on the topic in the vain hope it'll ever get answered. What concerns me most about this post is the implied but never defined meaning of "performance." With enough creativity, you can make that word mean ANYTHING.
I'm certain the actual criteria are labeled SSI (what isn't?), but perhaps we can play a game. I'll describe four hypothetical TSAgents, and you rank their performance from best to worst, letting us know if any would be fired or promoted on the spot.
Fellow readers, you can play too!
TSAgent Juan is a very easygoing guy who thinks he'll know a terrorist if he sees one. He might stop anyone wearing bandoleers or carrying a ticking package, but if you look like you belong the chances of him stopping you are pretty much nil. Needless to say, he has never thrown away any liquids.
TSAgent Drew follows TSA rules but is more than willing to make exceptions. If you're older than 85 or younger than 3 Drew won't even ask you to take your shoes off. He apologizes when throwing away full cans of coke, but parents with kids can take on all the milk they want. He'll investigate items that clearly look out of place, but just not knowing what something is isn't out of place enough for him.
TSAgent Trey follows all TSA rules and regulations, plus several more that make sense to him. Namely, all liquids in the clear baggies must be in clear containers themselves, even if they can be opened, and he'll ask people wearing heavy socks to take them off as well. He's often perceived as a bit rude because he doesn't have much patience with the idiotic and surly passengers who seem to him incapable of following rules which have been in place for years.
TSAgent Florian has never failed a single bomb test. He does this by inspecting every package that passes under his nose, and at least wanding every person to come through his gate without exception. If you look suspicious or make too much eye contact, he'll gladly search every inch of you and check your ID three times. Anyone who'd trade a little security for a little liberty clearly doesn't want to fly today.
July 24, 2008 12:08 AM
From the blog post: [i]"Our belief is that rewarding excellent performers is one way to motivate a workforce with a deadly serious job to do."[/i]
But I wonder why that is necessary? After all, [b]now that they have badges[/b] and blue uniforms, [b]aren't the TSO's universally respected?[/b] That was the stated purpose after all. And isn't that enough right there to put an end to your terrible retention rate?
July 24, 2008 1:59 AM
I don't know if any of the TSA folks here are AFGE members, but that press release sounds to me like something that should be given some serious weight.
From the pres release: “TSA consistently ranks at the bottom of any survey of employee morale in the federal government,” said Gage. “This workforce is too important to be treated so callously.”
Despite the public’s call for a federalized, well-trained and well-compensated screener workforce, Transportation Security Officers (TSOs) continue to be drastically underpaid – around $30,000 annually, which is woefully less than their counterparts in other law enforcement positions at the Department of Homeland Security.
(Disclaimer: My ex-wife has been a AFGE member since 1965, and has been an AFGE local officer. I produced the AFGE Region 10 GSA newsletter for several years in the '70's.)
July 24, 2008 2:01 AM
Brandon said...
See, TSA? See what your people do to us? We're American citizens, we have rights, and treating us like animals is WRONG. Go ahead, respond to this article, you cowards.
The TSA is not the coward, WE are. How many cowards walked by while this old man was pants (or is it depants) in public? Did any intervene, did anyone call a cop? Did the old man call a cop? NO!!
That victim of the TSA is just like the rest of us cowards, we roll over and allow ourselves and others to be treated unfairly and badly and then we bitch about it later.
"Boo Hoo the TSO was mean to me"
"What did you do?"
"Nothing I had to make my flight to Florida"
Our reaction to abuses should be swift and brutal. When you see a bully TSO at the airport do you move slowly in hopes of not being seen or do you speak up? Do you dare to demand that the TSO be disciplined or do you just slink away?
We are so afraid of a little discomfort we do NOTHING and then cry that NOTHING is being done. We would rather sit in our comfortable chairs and bask in the anonymity of the internet while we tell our tales of woe.
Posting on this blog is a good start, but if you want change, and I mean really want change, you need to call the TSO on the carpet when the infraction happens. You need to follow through with your complaint. The "only 110,000" complaints the TSA has received are just the 110,000 people that followed through.
How many of you have contacted your congressman, senator or Kip Hawley and voiced your disapproval of actions by the TSA?
Tell me what have YOU done besides complain on the internet to change this situation?
BTW Kip's address from the "Contact Us" page.
Kip Hawley
TSA-1
Transportation Security Administration
601 South 12th Street
Arlington, VA 22202-4220
Just remember no matter how mad you are DO NOT threaten Kip or anybody else for that matter with bodily harm and try to let your intelligence out shine your irritation.
Wow, I have no idea where that all came from but I think it is telling me that the Trollkiller needs to sleep.
July 24, 2008 6:10 AM
I thank those who have shed some AFGE light on this blog because it calls attention to the administrations callous actions towards it own employees. They tell us we're important, that they respect what we do and that we deserve respect but they don't SHOW us any respect in the "pay for performance" read low class individuals system. I am an AFGE member and it certainly has shed light on my agency's lack of respect for its own employees.
July 24, 2008 6:13 AM
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:
July 22, 2008
Contact: Emily Ryan
(202) 639-6419
AFGE CALLS FOR STANDARDIZED PAY AND TRAINING FOR ALL TRANSPORTATION SECURITY OFFICERS
Inconsistencies at TSA Lead to Low Morale and Safety Concerns
(WASHINGTON) – American Federation of Government Employees National President John Gage gave testimony today before the Senate Subcommittee on Oversight of Government Management, the Federal Workforce, and the District of Columbia, detailing the alarming inconsistencies running rampant at the TSA.
“TSA consistently ranks at the bottom of any survey of employee morale in the federal government,” said Gage. “This workforce is too important to be treated so callously.”
Despite the public’s call for a federalized, well-trained and well-compensated screener workforce, Transportation Security Officers (TSOs) continue to be drastically underpaid – around $30,000 annually, which is woefully less than their counterparts in other law enforcement positions at the Department of Homeland Security. Compounding the sting of low pay, TSOs also are subject to a pay-for performance system (PASS) that is in constant flux due to constant TSA adjustments – a system that employees believe is based on favoritism, not performance.
To make matters worse, TSA Administrator Hawley recently admitted that TSOs are being “trained and tested on different standards, and these standards do not reflect how” TSOs do their jobs.
“Unfortunately, TSOs still have limited access to image test training, the new training software is not available at all airports and in some cases does not work, and trainers have given wrong information about identifying “threat” objects during the test which directly led to test failure,” said Gage.
“TSOs with excellent work histories and commendations have been told they would lose their jobs because of failing to pass this testing,” continued Gage. “But instead of correcting the test and properly training TSOs, the agency regrettably has come up with another policy that continues to hold previous test failures against TSOs, and allows management to ‘retain and retrain’ whomever they want, making the ‘new and improved’ image testing more unfair than it was before.”
“These workers need a rational pay system before the attrition rate climbs any higher,” concluded Gage. “AFGE urges the subcommittee to end the PASS system, and instead place TSOs under the General Schedule that applies to other federal workers, including their colleagues throughout DHS.”
###
The American Federation of Government Employees (AFGE) is the largest federal employee union, representing 600,000 workers in the federal government and the government of the District of Columbia.
July 24, 2008 6:15 AM
Sandra said...
"only" 110,000 complaints of abuse from pax since the TSA's inception?
The TSA should be ashamed of its performance with numbers like that.
(see links in others posts in this thread 'cause I can't link)
Kip, as hard as I try, I can't say "only" and "110,000" in the same sentence.
And, you parsed your words very carefully to state that these were "abuse" complaints. I guess if a complaint didn't explicitly say "abuse" it wasn't counted, right?
Jan 20, 2009, 12:00 pm EST can't come quickly enough.
July 24, 2008 6:51 AM
While it is all very well and good that the TSA is making an effort to create financial incentives. I think they need to be open about how they deal with employees who are involved in specific incidents like the girl with the prosthetic leg or the nipple ring incident.
We don't need to know the exact details or the names of the employees. However we should be able to find out if letters of reprimand were placed in their files, reduction in pay, retraining, or termination occurred. Especially in incidents where there is a clear abuse of authority.
The TSA has no problems in recognizing employees who go above and beyond when doing their jobs. Put when employees grossly step out of line it becomes an internal matter. They should be making an effort to show what happens to employees who exceed their authority as well.
July 24, 2008 7:08 AM
"Our Officers work in an environment in which 99.9 percent of the people they see every day are not a threat"
So, does that imply 1 in 1000 passengers is a threat? If that's the case, and given that there are about 770MM emplanements each year, then 770k passengers are a threat, which means that (with 10MM annual departures), 7% of flights have a terrorist on board. Either that, or TSA is turning away 770k/year and keeping them from flying. Neither seems remotely plausible.
Could you please clarify whether the TSA believes that 770k people who arrive at checkpoints each year are terrorists?
July 24, 2008 8:14 AM
Quote from a press release posted by Tomas: "Despite the public’s call for a federalized, well-trained and well-compensated screener workforce, Transportation Security Officers (TSOs) continue to be drastically underpaid – around $30,000 annually, which is woefully less than their counterparts in other law enforcement positions at the Department of Homeland Security."
Tomas, I think one thing that is missing here is that TSO's are NOT law enforcement. They have no law enforcement powers nor should they. They really don't have any counterparts in other parts of DHS. I think that misunderstanding causes a lot of problems with TSOs as now they have blue uniforms and badges, they think they're something they're not and think they have powers that they don't.
And honestly, if there's a job that doesn't require even a high school diploma to be hired and no real special skills that aren't acquired (if it even is) on the job, is it REALLY going to be a high paying job? Furthermore, if TSO's aren't law enforcement, they shouldn't be paid like law enforcement. It seems like common sense.
I understand AFGE is trying to look out for its members and TSO's. I don't have a problem with that. I have a problem with them misrepresenting what a TSO really does in order to try to accomplish that end.
Robert
July 24, 2008 8:38 AM
A lot of people have posted links to a CBS newsstation out of Chicago which claims a lot of incredible claims against TSA screeners there in Chicago like a TSO having an elderly man drop pants in the checkpoint and forcing a woman to remove her nipple piercing.
What noone mentions though is the article provides no substantiated evidence for ANY of their claims aside from one image from a video in which police and NOT THE TSA were responding to a agitated and violent passenger.
There is no evidence or proof provided that ANY of the stories mentioned have been fact checked in any way which is just bad journalism. Articles like that are atrocious and misleading often written by bitter reporters who have had a bad experience at an airport and want to lash out at the TSA for it.
A lot of people who post to these blogs demand TSA back up their policies with facts and evidence which is good and exactly what the agency does, so why shouldn't we demand the same out of the people posting responses here.
If you are so determined for the truth you claim the TSA and DHS is hiding why not provide some of your own. Why not back up your angry posts with some facts that can actually be checked and verified. If you are a reporter and you are going to put out a article claiming a long list of checkpoint atrocities you should have the journalistic integrity to back it up with facts and evidence rather than just throw a bunch of travelers campfire horror stories into your article and the people who read that article should demand no less.
July 24, 2008 9:11 AM
There has to be some changes made with screeners at the airports. Everyone, including myself, can understand that there is potential for a very real threat, however, can't you lower that risk while treating passengers with respect?
For instance, take some of the issues that others pointed out here in the comments such as the 16 year old girl with an artificial leg, do your TSO's truly see this girl as a threat, can an artificial leg not show up on the scanner?
July 24, 2008 10:16 AM
PASS has flaws. They change the program every year to try to fix the flaws. They are changing the testing programs this year to fix some of the flaws.
Government employees that break the law aren't hard to get rid of. But those employees that you folks demand be fired for abuse may have followed procedures exactly as written and should not be fired or even disciplined. The depanting incident could happen to any of us when following procedures as written because we slide our hands down the side of passengers pants in which their belts have been removed. The last thing any of us want to do is pull someones pants down, but it happens. Those following the procedures for sensitive area piercings are still being complained about even though now the procedure has changed. Complaints of abuse do not necessarily mean abuse has happened folks. I've had someone screaming mad at me for screening someone with disabilities. Did I abuse the woman? No I did not. But this man was so mad and out of control that law enforcement had to be called.
MSO Tso
July 24, 2008 10:18 AM
John Walker said...
Sandra said...
"only" 110,000 complaints of abuse from pax since the TSA's inception?
The TSA should be ashamed of its performance with numbers like that.
(see links in others posts in this thread 'cause I can't link)
Kip, as hard as I try, I can't say "only" and "110,000" in the same sentence.
And, you parsed your words very carefully to state that these were "abuse" complaints. I guess if a complaint didn't explicitly say "abuse" it wasn't counted, right?
Jan 20, 2009, 12:00 pm EST can't come quickly enough.
July 24, 2008 6:51 AM
But can you say 0.000055%.
That is miniscule at best. Most private businesses and industry leaders wouldn't even look at such a low number on a metrix and think it was important. BTW that 110,000 number is the total complaint number, not just abuse complaints!
Give these guys a break.
Additionally the news story you are all so happy to quote is a compilation of several different individual incidents that happened over a time, these all did not happen this day, week or month. Try not being blinded by an obvious hack job by some media talking head in Chicago.
July 24, 2008 11:00 AM
Time to give up traveling by commercial air in this country. The system is broke.
Once pay for performance is initiated, pulling the pants down on the elderly and the youth will be passe. Knocking people down and pummeling them will be child's play. To secure their performance pay TSA personnel will find terrorists in anything that breaths.
Other government agencies have implemented similar pay systems over the past twenty years. At least in the IRS, it led to the curtailment of some of the abuse of power in the '90s.
Can you imagine what the "thought police" will come up with when their incomes are on the line? Imagine the view they will get of the distraught passenger just coming in from overseas trying to make the funeral of a loved one? Or a job candidate going to an interview for a life changing job and is very nervous? "Looks like terrorists to us!" "Hey!, why is that kid crying?" "I bet he knows his mother has a bomb! Police, open fire! Where's my bonus?"
July 24, 2008 11:22 AM
I'll repeat the extremely on-topic question that's been asked: While it's all fine and dandy that good performance is rewarded, what is done in the cases of these bad apples that we hear about on a fairly regular basis? Are they terminated? Are the retrained? Why are complaints SSI? It gives the appearance of sweeping things under the rug, even if that's not the case. To be clear, I don't think the TSA sweeps these things under the rug, but sometimes, appearances really are everything. Some specifics:
What happened to the TSO who asked political affiliation? Or, if he was fed the question, to the person who fed it to him.
What happened to the supervisor in the case of the 71 year old man who had his pants pulled down in public view?
What happened to the TSOs and/or supervisor who were involved in harassing the underage amputee?
What happened to the TSOs/supervisors involved in the nipple ring incident?
What happened to the TSOs/supervisors involved in the tax form incident?
These are just a few of the complaints made public. A little transparency in how these cases have been handled would go a *long* way towards gaining a little respect.
July 24, 2008 11:25 AM
Trollkiller said...
How many of you have contacted your congressman, senator or Kip Hawley and voiced your disapproval of actions by the TSA?
Tell me what have YOU done besides complain on the internet to change this situation?
*raises hand* I've stated on multiple occasions that my politics are well known to my congress-critters. This blog is but one outlet. Letters/email/faxes on issues I feel strongly on go to my congress-critters on a fairly regular basis, especially when there is an upcoming vote.
Also, regarding the abuses by the TSA that have been reported: I can unequivocally say that I would not be allowed to board my flight had I been a witness to any of them. I stand up for what I believe, even at my own risk. And once I'm convinced I'm right, I'm a very stubborn and extremely vocal prick. This did not serve me well when I was in the USAF ;)
July 24, 2008 11:40 AM
Forgive my interrupting the usual ranting, but I thought I'd ask a serious question regarding PASS. :)
I'm wondering if TSA has done some sort of external validation to see if the quality of screening has, in fact, increased since the introduction of PASS.
Gale Rossides' opening statement says in part that PASS has proven effective, but the evidence she offers (greater employee retention and greater commitment to the organizations goals) seems unrelated to the goal of improving screening. Sure, improving officer morale can contribute to better screening, but those aren't the same thing.
I read the full submitted statement, which does seem to offer some of the evidence I'm asking about. Notably, the amount of money paid out by the PASS program has increased year-by-year, at a rate that would seem to be greater than inflation. So, more TSOs are qualifying for performance pay, which presumably means that performance is improving.
But I'm wondering if you've been able to confirm this with some sort of external validation. Just because people are performing better on PASS tests doesn't mean that they're doing a better job screening. One would hope, of course, that the two would be highly correlated.
Has performance on unannounced tests of the screening system improved since PASS was instituted?
July 24, 2008 12:10 PM
Despite the public’s call for a federalized, well-trained and well-compensated screener workforce, Transportation Security Officers (TSOs) continue to be drastically underpaid – around $30,000 annually, which is woefully less than their counterparts in other law enforcement positions at the Department of Homeland Security. Compounding the sting of low pay, TSOs also are subject to a pay-for performance system (PASS) that is in constant flux due to constant TSA adjustments – a system that employees believe is based on favoritism, not performance.
If TSOs want to be paid like law enforcement then they should go through the training and become law enforcement.
Right now TSOs are nothing more than glorified security guards and as such get compensated at the security guard rate.
July 24, 2008 1:16 PM
Trollkiller said:
The TSA is not the coward, WE are. How many cowards walked by while this old man was pants (or is it depants) in public? Did any intervene, did anyone call a cop? Did the old man call a cop? NO!!
...
Our reaction to abuses should be swift and brutal. When you see a bully TSO at the airport do you move slowly in hopes of not being seen or do you speak up? Do you dare to demand that the TSO be disciplined or do you just slink away?
________________
Well, I always move slowly - I'm mobility impaired since my stroke in 2000, and last time I flew I was three days out of surgery (in Philly) and attempting to fly back home to the Seattle area to recover when the TSO at Philly dumped my laptop out of the grey plastic TSA tray and onto the sloped stainless steel outrun from the x-ray machine because I wasn't there fast enough to satisfy that imbecile.
All I could do was watch as it hit the hard surface and had following trays slamming into it repeatedly until I was allowed through the metal detector and could hobble slowly over to the outrun to gather together my cane, shoes, laptop, liquids, keys, and pocket change.
The only thing I did do was ask for assistance at that point, or for someone to at least get the lady on the cellphone OR HER LUGGAGE off the only seating in the area so I could put my shoes back on, but was refused.
Why didn't I call them on it? Why didn't I complain right then? Why wasn't I swift and brutal in my wrath?
(1) I'm handicapped, and on a good day can manage to get myself from place to place without further injury, but without even my cane, have little chance of standing up to a TSO (pun intended).
(2) Having just had surgery and having drains and bandages I was even more prone to injury than is usual.
(3) I DID want to fly that day, and I wanted to do it on the flight I was scheduled on. I wanted to get home. I wanted another pain pill.
(4) The response I got when I asked a TSO to help me get a seat cleared ("We can't, they aren't ours, there are more seats about 50 feet down the corridor.") did not bode well for any sort of good result in challenging the officious git who could call for any number of reinforcements to make my day even more miserable.
For just disagreeing with a TSO Robin Kassner wound up being slammed to the floor. I'm not sure I would have survived challenging TSA that day. I could have easily become just another statistic.
BTW, there were no complaint forms visible, and I didn't bother to try to determine the TSO's identity: I wanted out of there and I wanted out of there NOW and in one piece. My laptop had already suffered enough damage, and I didn't need a visit to some windowless room to discuss my standing up on my hind legs and barking at the incompetent, obviously angry, *&%#! who did it.
Some days it is NOT a simple thing to fight back, and one just has to wait for, and hope for, better days in the future in which to do it.
When did you last challenge a TSO directly, Trollkiller?
July 24, 2008 2:18 PM
The PASS system (pay for performance) is nothing new, despite the tone of this blog. According to the TSA's own website, it was implemented on April 1, 2006.
So for all who are asking "how will this change security?" or "how will performance be measured?", you should know that NOTHING WILL CHANGE because nothing new is being done. This system has already been in effect for the past two-plus years.
The only reason it is now "newsworthy" is because a TSA administrator testified in front of Congress this week.
Just a PR fluff piece. Ignore it.
July 24, 2008 2:46 PM
Enough already, TSOs crying poor is really ticking me off. Starting pay is $24,432 (low end) PLUS location pay. (Chicago 23.16%)or $30,090 to START.
In other words $14.45 hr plus Government benefits.
Not bad for a position that requires just a GED, a clean credit report and a clean background check.
For a good comparison the median wage of a security guard, with similar education and physical demands, in Chicago is only $10.63 per hour or $22,110 per year.
TSOs get paid a good wage for what they do. They are not the minimum wage victims they are being portrayed as.
July 24, 2008 3:21 PM
Just a small note to everyone. As an officer for TSA I find the actions of a few, ie the publicized incidents of the elderly gentleman and women to be deplorable. i know that at my airport, we strive to maintain security as well as treating passengers with respect and dignity. Please ask yourselves, have you expressed appreciation to the thousands of officers who daily do their job with a high degree of professionalilsm. Or have you treated them with distain or rudness. As I was growing up, my parents taught me that if you follow the golden rule, ie treat others as you would have them treat you, you get the same in return. Now I am not trying to justify bad performance or in excusable behavior on an officers part at all, but maybe walking a mile in the good officers' shoes might give one a different veiw.
July 24, 2008 3:36 PM
I have mixed feelings on this.
In a pay for performance system, will people do the right thing if it harms or hinders their chance for advancement? That is one traditional advantage for the WS/GS system along with not bowing to political pressures.
Will pay for performance increase professionalism, consistentcy, and reward those who can think independtly and exercise good judgement?
Likewise it is a too way street. Will pay for performance reduce many of the issues noted on this blog when it comes to improper actions by TSO's?
What standards will be applied to determine performance?
I also assume that there was a bit of hyperbole on the part of Gale Rossides when she made the following statement:
"Our Officers work in an environment in which 99.9 percent of the people they see every day are not a threat"
The numbers just dont add up that 1 out of every 1000screened passengers are threats.
July 24, 2008 4:02 PM
Jessica said...
There has to be some changes made with screeners at the airports. Everyone, including myself, can understand that there is potential for a very real threat, however, can't you lower that risk while treating passengers with respect?
For instance, take some of the issues that others pointed out here in the comments such as the 16 year old girl with an artificial leg, do your TSO's truly see this girl as a threat, can an artificial leg not show up on the scanner?
**********************************
Jessica;
let me answer your questions one by one:
1. Can you lower the treat level by treating passenger with respect?
A: We strive to treat every passenger with respect but EVERY passenger MUST be properly screened.
2. The 16 year old girl with an artificial leg, do you really see her as a threat?
A: Every passenger has the potential of being a threat no matter the age. Keep in mind that in some countries, young children and old people are used as suicide bombers, so every passenger is treated equally. To screen one and not another would be discrimination against the one who WAS screened.
3. Can the artificial leg not show up on the scanner?
A. Yes it can if she takes it off and sends it through the xray which is what we don't want her to do for obvious reasons. It will alarm the metal detector when she walks through and when she indicates that she has an artificial leg that's fine, but the alarm still has to be resolved, because she could be hiding a weapon (remember those kids in other countries) and using the artificial leg as a disguise to get through, hence secondary screening. We are not trying to be insensitive but it really bothers me when someone says "do I look like a terrorist?" Well gee, tell me what a terrorist looks like and I'll answer your question. Jessica, I hope I've answered your questions in the order they were presented.
July 24, 2008 4:02 PM
Trollkiller said...
Enough already, TSOs crying poor is really ticking me off. Starting pay is $24,432 (low end) PLUS location pay. (Chicago 23.16%)or $30,090 to START.
In other words $14.45 hr plus Government benefits.
Not bad for a position that requires just a GED, a clean credit report and a clean background check.
For a good comparison the median wage of a security guard, with similar education and physical demands, in Chicago is only $10.63 per hour or $22,110 per year.
TSOs get paid a good wage for what they do. They are not the minimum wage victims they are being portrayed as.
July 24, 2008 3:21 PM
***********************************
Trollkiller, bad example with security guards in Chicago. Philadelphia Security officers can be paid as high as 22.50 an hour which is 46,800.00 per year! TSO's are on the low end of the Government pay system which is what we are trying to get our administration to see. Would you want your boss to pay you 14.45 an hour and tell you to stop crying because your getting benefits? Everyone wants to be recognized for what they do, and the PASS system is NOT universal recognition for all, its subjective and unfair to say the least.
July 24, 2008 4:07 PM
Tomas said...
When did you last challenge a TSO directly, Trollkiller?
The last time one was rude to me, I called them on it and the TSO quickly apologized telling me they were having a bad day. No complaint form needed no supervisor needed. Someone having a rough day got snippy, I've done it too.
Understand I do not go through complaining about shoes or liquids or anything else outside of the TSOs area of influence. I save that stuff for Kip.
I have worked retail, I am not going to give the person behind the counter or in this case behind the wand a bunch of crap that they can not change. Been on the recieving end of that and it is not fun.
But I will not tolerate abuse or unwarranted rudeness to myself or anyone around me.
I understand if you are in poor health and crippled up that you may not have the energy to fight the battle at that moment. My question is, where were the other cowards that did not step in and lend a hand? (passengers and TSOs)
Good God we should hang our heads in shame and wonder what happened to the real American spirit?
July 24, 2008 4:26 PM
..."have you treated them with distain (sic)or rudness (sic). As I was growing up, my parents taught me that if you follow the golden rule, ie (sic) treat others as you would have them treat you, you get the same in return. Now I am not trying to justify bad performance or in excusable behavior on an officers part at all, but maybe walking a mile in the good officers' shoes might give one a different veiw (sic)."
Your logic is more faulty than your spelling. Your people are the cause of humiliation and physical abuse on the citizens of this once proud land. I don't see how the unarmed American citizens are abusing TSOs that are backed by the power of the gun. Time and again the elderly, young, handicapped are targets of TSA's abuse. My parent taught me not to bully, not to abuse people, but to treat people honestly and fairly. I was taught that such bullying and abusive action was the sign of the cowards and the self-hating individuals.
Have you no shame?
July 24, 2008 4:33 PM
Colby said...
If you are so determined for the truth you claim the TSA and DHS is hiding why not provide some of your own. Why not back up your angry posts with some facts that can actually be checked and verified. If you are a reporter and you are going to put out a article claiming a long list of checkpoint atrocities you should have the journalistic integrity to back it up with facts and evidence rather than just throw a bunch of travelers campfire horror stories into your article and the people who read that article should demand no less.
I agree, I thought that story was the worst "investigative reporting" I have seen in a long time. Marvin Zindler must be spinning in his grave.
July 24, 2008 4:35 PM
What happened to the TSO who asked political affiliation? Or, if he was fed the question, to the person who fed it to him.
What happened to the supervisor in the case of the 71 year old man who had his pants pulled down in public view?
What happened to the TSOs and/or supervisor who were involved in harassing the underage amputee?
What happened to the TSOs/supervisors involved in the nipple ring incident?
What happened to the TSOs/supervisors involved in the tax form incident?
July 24, 2008 4:46 PM
Colby said...
A lot of people have posted links to a CBS newsstation out of Chicago which claims a lot of incredible claims against TSA screeners there in Chicago like a TSO having an elderly man drop pants in the checkpoint and forcing a woman to remove her nipple piercing.
What noone mentions though is the article provides no substantiated evidence for ANY of their claims aside from one image from a video in which police and NOT THE TSA were responding to a agitated and violent passenger.
There is no evidence or proof provided that ANY of the stories mentioned have been fact checked in any way which is just bad journalism. Articles like that are atrocious and misleading often written by bitter reporters who have had a bad experience at an airport and want to lash out at the TSA for it.
A lot of people who post to these blogs demand TSA back up their policies with facts and evidence which is good and exactly what the agency does, so why shouldn't we demand the same out of the people posting responses here.
If you are so determined for the truth you claim the TSA and DHS is hiding why not provide some of your own. Why not back up your angry posts with some facts that can actually be checked and verified. If you are a reporter and you are going to put out a article claiming a long list of checkpoint atrocities you should have the journalistic integrity to back it up with facts and evidence rather than just throw a bunch of travelers campfire horror stories into your article and the people who read that article should demand no less.
July 24, 2008 9:11 AM
.................................
You want the same kind of proof that TSA has posted here?
July 24, 2008 4:46 PM
A question for the TSA folks here on this blog who actually work (or have worked) in direct contact with the public at checkpoints...
You are understandably annoyed, even upset, by the constant pounding that TSOs get in general for the transgressions and overtly hostile (or just plain stupid) actions a few take. We shouldn't be tarring all of you with the same brush, but should be reserving that and the feathers for those few.
But my question asks not only if YOU do a good job, to the best of your abilities, and treat the public with respect and compassion while doing it, but if you challenge or otherwise attempt to correct bad behavior by other TSOs when you see it.
I know that it is difficult, and sometimes even hazardous to your continued employment, to challenge, report, or otherwise try to correct incorrect actions by your peers, but let's face it, you are there every day and see it more often than those just transiting your checkpoint. If you just let it happen, just let it continue to happen, you are nearly as much to blame as those behaving badly.
That, of course, brings up another very serious question: Is there a secure path for such complaints, something where you aren't putting your job on the line just to say that another TSO overstepped the line or treated a traveller badly?
I assume that ALL checkpoints have excellent, recorded, archived video surveillance (if not, why not), and that simply noting the time and "position" or other way to identify where to look, and a short description of the problem SHOULD be enough to get a supervisor or manager to review the incident.
Again, some (probably most) of the TSA folks are simply folks trying to do their best at a thankless, numbing job, but you are all being brought down by the few bad actors in your ranks that do outrageous things for no discernible reason other than that they should not be in ANY job that involves direct contact with the public or any authority over others.
Once the bad apples are removed from the front lines (and supervisors, that is YOUR JOB - do it), your jobs will be easier and more rewarding.
(Now, does anyone have any idea how to handle the folks in the plush offices who make the imaginative and sometimes insane rules and guidelines you are required to follow? That's the real source of the problems that make you the whipping boys...)
BTW, just to clarify MY experience with TSA and TSOs: It has generally been good, and I'm one of those odd folks who randomly smile and greet total strangers pleasantly on a regular basis, and I'm sure that helps.
I did experience, however, inexcusably bad behavior ONCE at a checkpoint, and that really has soured me and made me more critical of the TSA as there is really little productive action available to the public to correct any problems.
NO government agency should be able to stand up, look imperiously down their collective noses at the American public, wrap themselves in super-secret laws, rules and guidelines, and simply say "Shut up. Do it my way or else. We don't have to answer to you."
You DO have to answer to us. It may take a while, but eventually all bills will be paid...
(Right now, I need some caffeine...)
July 24, 2008 4:55 PM
Qutoe from Colby: "If you are so determined for the truth you claim the TSA and DHS is hiding why not provide some of your own. Why not back up your angry posts with some facts that can actually be checked and verified. If you are a reporter and you are going to put out a article claiming a long list of checkpoint atrocities you should have the journalistic integrity to back it up with facts and evidence rather than just throw a bunch of travelers campfire horror stories into your article and the people who read that article should demand no less."
TSA has already shown us that it has evidence readily available when it suits its needs. One of the first instances of Myth busters (can they call it that without trademark infringement?) was about the woman and the sippy cup at DCA. When TSA felt it was right, they trotted out the video and debunked what the lady was saying.
There's typically a pattern with TSA. TSA never admits it's wrong. If it thinks it's right, it trots out all kinds of evidence. If they're quiet, that means there's usually something to the story.
I think people tend to believe these stories based on experiences they had with TSA. Some of these things might be outlandish. However, a lot of them are still plausible based on what we've seen and experienced.
TSA has a chance to dispute it ... that's why it's being called. If it has the evidence (it should, checkpoints are always video taped), it should be easy to debunk this story. They can throw up the evidence. If they choose not to, well, you make the call based on the silence.
Robert
July 24, 2008 4:56 PM
First of all belts come off when a person is screened. It is unfortunate that the mans pants fell down, but I am sure that they were not wripped down on purpose. Come on people. You act like you are all intelligent posting on here, but you people don't think. A girl with a fake leg. would never have to pull her pants down. I am not sure of the actual story, but I would like to find out the truth.
And that person being held down by the cops. That was the cops, not us. So what now?!
July 24, 2008 5:00 PM
Quote from Anonymous: "But can you say 0.000055%.
That is miniscule at best. Most private businesses and industry leaders wouldn't even look at such a low number on a metrix and think it was important. BTW that 110,000 number is the total complaint number, not just abuse complaints!"
Please tell me where you get that's ALL the complaints? Seems to me complaints for abuse.
If you look at the official complaint form, there are lots of other areas on there. You have to watch TSA's words very carefully.
Honestly, I think the actual number is much higher. Many people, me included, find it very difficult to get a complaint form at a TSA checkpoint. I've had to resort to bringing my own as they're often not there. Or if you do ask, you get the intimidation "let me see your ID" and stuff like that.
DEN TSA trotted out a figure awhile back (believe 2006) that said they had only received less than a dozen complaints for an entire year. I knew people that had filed, combined, more than a dozen complaints that month.
It begs the question: how many complaints are really getting thru and aren't ending up in the garbage can? I'm not convinced mine have survived after I've handed them to the screening manager.
How many people honestly know that they can complain? Until a few years ago, I didn't.
If anything, this number is low. And can we really trust TSA's figures anyway? Kippie just said on Tuesday:
TSA has screened 3.5 billion passengers since the start-up of the agency, Hawley said, adding, "That's more than the population of the world.
Gee, did China and India just drop off the map? Looking at the US Census Bureau's website, the world's population is estimated to be 6,712,211,390.
If Kip's making up figures like that, how can we be sure that he's not making up other figures?
Robert
July 24, 2008 5:13 PM
To be fair, Bob answered some of our questions in the "Calling All Lurkers" thread, which, of course, most people are no longer reading, preferring to read the current thread. He did, however, make reference that responses to the top questions will be in a separate thread.
Wintermute, he answered your question about why the complaint form is SSI by saying it's not SSI until it's been completed. ???????
Re disciplining TSOs for transgressions, there was a link on FT yesterday to a report that stated that prosecution of a screener for stealing from baggage had been dropped because to continue with such prosecution would result in the release of information that was "SSI."
Ain't that a sorry excuse?
July 24, 2008 6:24 PM
When did you last challenge a TSO directly, Trollkiller?
I did that at O'hare. Lots of grief and asked said to the TSOs "don't take it out on the traveling public, your failure to perform on the last test." Got a very shocked look from them. Sort of a how does he know about that look.
July 24, 2008 9:25 PM
I just would like to clarify that whole big long post...
Basically, your giving your employees bonuses for doing their job? and your not punishing those who do poorly?
Lets think of a simple way to game the system...flage everyone. Yeah that will get them a big bonus.
July 24, 2008 10:45 PM
the stick is just as important as the carrot. Everyone invloved in the incidents that get on the news should be at the very least demoted to a position where they don't deal with passengers and fired in the worst cases (I'd say about half of the complaints should be treated as such).
July 24, 2008 11:30 PM
"If you are so determined for the truth you claim the TSA and DHS is hiding why not provide some of your own. Why not back up your angry posts with some facts that can actually be checked and verified. If you are a reporter and you are going to put out a article claiming a long list of checkpoint atrocities you should have the journalistic integrity to back it up with facts and evidence rather than just throw a bunch of travelers campfire horror stories into your article and the people who read that article should demand no less."
Remember that bit about complaint forms being SSI someone said earlier (and one of the team essentially confirming it)? All we have are people's personal accounts because the evidence isn't accessible.
July 24, 2008 11:31 PM
Holy crap, I wrote something that stays on-topic!
...
Trollkiller wrote:
TSOs get paid a good wage for what they do. They are not the minimum wage victims they are being portrayed as.
I agree. It's a hard job, but we're paid a fair wage to do it. What I would really, really like would be raises. :D TSA spouts about the PASS raises now, but it only took them FOUR YEARS to come up with it.
Four years. Same job. No raises.*
Still, I get all the bills paid by the end of the month, and the money means less to me than the ideology of why I joined the TSA in the first place, so I'm satisfied. A little irked at the past, but satisfied in the present.
By the way, just thought I'd make an observation:
I'm one of those people that have benefited from the PASS system, since I score relatively high on the things. I still think it sucks and should just be replaced with the general schedule. I think I've actually spoken vigorously about this on our own internal IdeaFactory.
In the end, I feel the PASS system is a measure of saving money, and nothing more. Even if a TSO scored the highest possible score ever on the PASS, and got the highest possible bonus and raise, it's still less than they'd get with a step-increase and the higher wages thusly received from then until the end of their tenure with the government. Even then, though, there's no guarantee that they'd score the same or even anywhere near how they did the first time around, whereas the step-increase for longevity (and longevity is actually turning into a pretty solid commodity in this job, what with TSA's enormous turnover because of the work's general sucktastikness) simply continues to build up and add.
* - Yes, we recieved the general, across-the-board, whole-of-the-government "cost of living raises" at about anywhere from 1%-3%, which roughly translated into anything from ¢15 to ¢25 a year.
July 25, 2008 12:06 AM
@Anonymous
I understand what your getting at but I thin kattempting to hold the traveling public to the same standard as your behavoir is not far. You want to be viewed as near equivalent to the police? Well when a police officer is caught doing things that are illegal or arbitrary or retaliatory, we have public recourse. A complaint to the police department is definitely not SSI.
When you watch them stand on the side of the road and politely deal with giving a ranting screaming lunatic a ticket, thats what you should be noting not the complaints on here. The statement you really should be making is that your extremely upset that a few bad apples are ruining your spotless reputation.
And to consider TrollKiller's comment for a minute. None of the other TSA's stepped in either. anonymous wants us to ignore the bad apple, well allowing your peers to violate another human being like that makes every TSO manning that checkpoint just as bad an apple. Maybe yo uguys should fight for whistleblower protection.
It could be said that the squeaky wheel gets the grease, but the TSA seems to have a wierd statistical anomaly of squeaky wheels.
July 25, 2008 2:49 AM
@Trollkiller
finally the anger that we should all be seeing and feeling! I mentioned filing a complaint... I had to intervene in Rochester NY between a TSA yelling at a deaf person because the TSA misinterpreted ASL as an obscene gesture. Given that Rochester has one of (if not the) largest deaf populations it was unacceptable that no one their seemed to even acknowledge the existence of ASL or that yelling at a deaf person is not effective and quite rude. I guarantee I would have stepped in for that old man. Big surprise I got a secondary screening in Rochester. Theres others, but thats the one that got me mad enough to start following this blog and really spreading the word to my friends about their rights when they travel. Its also why the two times I have flown since, its with a running diital recorder in my bag.
What bothers me more than no other travelers helping this man though is that yet again no other TSO no 'Lead' no supervisor and no law enforcement stepped in. While most people have been conditioned to either accept or ignore under the real threat of physical or emotional buse, the other TSO's and everyone else present knew better. They should be disciplined as well, not just the one TSO who actually did it. If your policies are so sacred and so privledged that you treat them like a state secret. Than you damn well better enforce them yourself.
July 25, 2008 3:11 AM
"Right there in front of you are some of the most tested professionals inside or outside of government."
Reading that is just sad. If you have that kind of illusion regarding your workforce, there is nothing we can do to help you. I used to think we could make a difference with this blog, but I give up. There is no solution for an organization as deranged as this one.
July 25, 2008 6:31 AM
Trollkiller wrote:
Enough already, TSOs crying poor is really ticking me off.
Er.. just thought I'd make another observation though, TK - by and large, when you're speaking of people as a whole and not as individual schleps with strange quirks and idiosyncrasies about them, it doesn't matter how much money they make, they will always tell you that they're not making enough.
July 25, 2008 9:00 AM
Jim Huggins wrote:
But I'm wondering if you've been able to confirm this with some sort of external validation. Just because people are performing better on PASS tests doesn't mean that they're doing a better job screening. One would hope, of course, that the two would be highly correlated.
They are correlated. :)
PASS is pretty much made up of a bunch of little modular segments, but the fact remains that the sterilized environment of being in a room by yourself with the tester and a witness do make up a small part of the PASS testing (though, from what I understand, a significant chunk of the overall score).
Other parts of it include unannounced observations, like when your PASS tester just decides to watch you from the balcony to see how you interact with passengers to come to a customer service score, or watch your technical proficiency doing a handwanding or a patdown or a bag search, and you'd never even know they were there until after they scored you and came to talk to you about it.
Me, personally, I think the PASS system looks great on paper, but has way too many flaws when put into actual practice.
For the Anonymous MSO TSO:
The depanting incident could happen to any of us when following procedures as written because we slide our hands down the side of passengers pants in which their belts have been removed
Sides, front, back, over the hip. Though usually by that point the passenger should've already had their arms down, and it's a simple matter to just have them hold their britches up.
Nevertheless, it's happened here at Huntsville a couple of times (though usually not for being pulled; the most common reason for it here is people wearing pants that are too big that, when they pull their belt off, the pants just slide off) but here's a tip that you may or may not already know: Turn your gloves inside-out.
It's, like, the worst-kept secret of the screener corps. The exterior of the gloves are covered in little texture bumps which make it hard to do the BIPD sliding motion without pulling at the passenger's clothing. Simply turning the glove inside-out, however, covers the glove with the smooth, slick surface that's normally on the inside. It's a little harder to get the glove on then, especially if your hands are already sweating, but once they're on, the glove slides effortlessly over clothing.
It also helps doing bagchecks, too, since the glove won't snag on the edge of paper and stuff. :)
Tell your friends, and any new OJTs!
July 25, 2008 9:12 AM
To be most effective, if a TSO publicly harasses a passenger at the start of the line, the whole rest of the line is cooperative. The line moves faster. I see a marked improvement once the TSO displays effective leadership.
The Pay For Performance formula should include the speed in which passengers are moved through the line as well as a quota of detained suspected terrorists based upon TSA statistical profiles.
July 25, 2008 9:44 AM
Pay For Performance is a good idea, but we must remember that the best weapon we have against potential terrorists is fear. If we want to keep the lines of passengers moving we must make sure that they know they can be treated just like the terrorists in Cuba if they get out of line.
This management system is proven to work in prisons, the military, and other authoritarian organizations. It should be the prime motivator for TSA.
July 25, 2008 10:22 AM
Seems odd that when comments are strongly negative towards the TSA that approvals suddenly drop off to zero.
Bob admonished the posters, didn't get the desired results so it would seem that comments just won't be posted for some time.
Kind of like when Kip said he didn't want to discuss ID issues anymore, so he took his ball and went home.
Real effective way of working with the public!
July 25, 2008 10:39 AM
You know what, close down this blog, it's became absolutely worthless, it's the same 5 or 6 people who keep spamming this place, few people are very happy with the TSA, but coming from a person who has actually lived through a dictadorship... I find these comments about the TSA being militant as offensive, I've flown many times and honestly...
You got good ones and you got bad ones, basically the same ratio as in other government agencies, except these guys are out in the open and you HAVE to get through them. Sure the policies need a little work and there needs to be MUCH more security added in areas like cargo and employee screening but these guys want LESS security.
And anybody that doesn't walk lockstep to their critiques against the TSA are bullied, ridiculed and their post picked apart for grammer and spelling mistakes and in general being called a "plant" or "apologist"...
Once again just shut the blog down, you'll be called several things, but as we all know, you can never satisfy these people...
July 25, 2008 11:09 AM
"Tomas said... "
First and foremost, I thank you for your well thought out post, and I will attempt to answer your questions to the best of my ability.
"A question for the TSA folks here on this blog who actually work (or have worked) in direct contact with the public at checkpoints..."
I have worked almost 2 years at a checkpoint for the TSA plus I have 3 years of experience working privately at various airlines (Aerolineas Argentinas, Air Canada, American Airlines).
"You are understandably annoyed, even upset, by the constant pounding that TSOs get in general for the transgressions and overtly hostile (or just plain stupid) actions a few take. We shouldn't be tarring all of you with the same brush, but should be reserving that and the feathers for those few.
But my question asks not only if YOU do a good job, to the best of your abilities, and treat the public with respect and compassion while doing it, but if you challenge or otherwise attempt to correct bad behavior by other TSOs when you see it.
I know that it is difficult, and sometimes even hazardous to your continued employment, to challenge, report, or otherwise try to correct incorrect actions by your peers, but let's face it, you are there every day and see it more often than those just transiting your checkpoint. If you just let it happen, just let it continue to happen, you are nearly as much to blame as those behaving badly."
See there is a certain problem, I for one, have noticed, is that there has created a certain "us against them" mentality which is not healthy, you have the passengers seeing us as the enemy and you have (the small group of bad apples) that see the passengers as the enemy.
Now I believe that this for the most part has gone down in recent years because after almost 7 years, the TSA has become the norm, and you don't have passengers being as mean spirited to the TSOs as much as before, that is why it seems like TSOs are nicer, it's just that there day hasn't been ruined by some guy who wants to prove something or is having a bad day and is lashing out at the guy with no gun or even the ability of the lowly "meter maid" to fine someone.
It's a funny phenomenon, the TSOs mood actually are heavily influenced by the passengers...
You can actually notice TSOs are nicer when they have flights from Japan, UK, Scandinavia or Chile since these passengers are more often very respectful of the TSOs and follow the rules without taking it out on the little guy making 12 bucks an hour.
And you can notice TSOs are in a bad mood when they have flights from New York, France, Italy, Germany, Canada or Eastern Europe... these passengers seem to be more likely to bully or verbaly attack the TSOs which in turn obviously sours their day... I for one dread the Paris flights since I've been told "I hope you country burns in hell!" and "you're just as stupid as your president", I have chosen to only put the least offensive because some people can be down right mean. It's funny when New Yorkers, the people who were actually attacked on 9/11 to be such jerks, when you have to deal with these "tough guys", I imagine it gets under your skin, real quick...
"That, of course, brings up another very serious question: Is there a secure path for such complaints, something where you aren't putting your job on the line just to say that another TSO overstepped the line or treated a traveller badly?"
Actually yes, AND you get a financial incentive to do it, the problem is, that being a government job makes it very inflexible to fire people... after 2 years it's HARD to lose your job.
"I assume that ALL checkpoints have excellent, recorded, archived video surveillance (if not, why not), and that simply noting the time and "position" or other way to identify where to look, and a short description of the problem SHOULD be enough to get a supervisor or manager to review the incident."
You got that right, at my checkpoint there is like 30 cameras, that's why I laugh when people suggest you can rob anything and get away with it.
"Again, some (probably most) of the TSA folks are simply folks trying to do their best at a thankless, numbing job, but you are all being brought down by the few bad actors in your ranks that do outrageous things for no discernible reason other than that they should not be in ANY job that involves direct contact with the public or any authority over others.
Once the bad apples are removed from the front lines (and supervisors, that is YOUR JOB - do it), your jobs will be easier and more rewarding."
The problem for me is that the TSA is by all means a realatively new agency and although there are many vets that are VERY good, a lot of people at first weren't hired with the standards that they are hired nowadays... that in conjunction to the 2 year thing means that sometimes the bad apples can float around in the water for good long time.
"(Now, does anyone have any idea how to handle the folks in the plush offices who make the imaginative and sometimes insane rules and guidelines you are required to follow? That's the real source of the problems that make you the whipping boys...)"
Ask any TSO and they could give you any amount of creative ways to solve the problems we have here... the problem is that they don't listen to us much...
"BTW, just to clarify MY experience with TSA and TSOs: It has generally been good, and I'm one of those odd folks who randomly smile and greet total strangers pleasantly on a regular basis, and I'm sure that helps.
I did experience, however, inexcusably bad behavior ONCE at a checkpoint, and that really has soured me and made me more critical of the TSA as there is really little productive action available to the public to correct any problems."
What can I say, I'm sorry to hear that...
NO government agency should be able to stand up, look imperiously down their collective noses at the American public, wrap themselves in super-secret laws, rules and guidelines, and simply say "Shut up. Do it my way or else. We don't have to answer to you."
You DO have to answer to us. It may take a while, but eventually all bills will be paid...
(Right now, I need some caffeine...)
I agree with most of what you say, remember MOST TSOs actually feel the way you do on a lot of issues, but remember, we all gotta pay the bills some how.
In conclusion: Remember the Golden Rule "Do unto others as you want done to yourself"...
And honestly, I CHALLENGE, yes I CHALLENGE you haters to get a job at the TSA, and after a few months tell me what a difficult and thankless job you have, and you just wish there were more people who were willing to make the whole ordeal easier for everyone.
I personally only recieve a compliment every few months or so, and it really brightons my day, too bad I get 20 nasty bullies a day...
Oh well...
July 25, 2008 11:50 AM
"Anonymous said...
"First of all belts come off when a person is screened."
I've been through the checkpoints about 70 times. My buckle usually doesn't set off the alarm. The TSO's usually ask if it has been a problem in the past. Last time I went through a checkpoint (about 5 AM,) I discovered my keys and change in my pocket, no alarm...
"It is unfortunate that the mans pants fell down, but I am sure that they were not wripped down on purpose. Come on people. You act like you are all intelligent posting on here, but you people don't think. A girl with a fake leg. would never have to pull her pants down. I am not sure of the actual story, but I would like to find out the truth."
Well, find out the truth, and post it here. The above sounds like you have already drawn your own conclusion.
"And that person being held down by the cops. That was the cops, not us. So what now?!"
No sense of moral indignation at the plight of the passenger? How would you personally feel if you were in that woman's place? Would you agree, that for the sake of security, some beatings and excessive force is necessary?
July 25, 2008 11:55 AM
Dunstan said...
"I've been through the checkpoints about 70 times. My buckle usually doesn't set off the alarm. The TSO's usually ask if it has been a problem in the past. Last time I went through a checkpoint (about 5 AM,) I discovered my keys and change in my pocket, no alarm..."
___________________________________
Thats good. Whenever a person is pulled aside for additional screening their belt comes off. But thanks for letting me know about the 70 times you flew.
The girl with the fake leg....
I am not going to look into it because really I don't care that much. But I do know that it is not according to TSA rules to pull down anyones pants to see anything, whether its a fake leg or a brace or anything. If in fact TSA even needed someone to lift their pant leg up, the passenger is to be offered a private screening. People on this site make it sound like TSA will have you take your clothes off in front of the whole airport. That is dumb. TSA does not do this. If it happened there must be more to the story.
"No sense of moral indignation at the plight of the passenger? How would you personally feel if you were in that woman's place? Would you agree, that for the sake of security, some beatings and excessive force is necessary?"
___________________________________
Firs of all this has nothing to do with what I said.
I never said that anything was necessary. But what I did say was, the cops were using excessive force. Not TSA. Yes TSA called the police over when the passenger was acting incorrectly. It probably should have been handled in a more professional manner. But how it was handled was the police's choice, the TSA had nothing to do with that decision.
My guess it about 99% of the people on this sight had 1 bad experience with the TSA and is now out to get them. That would be my guess as to why you people waist your time coming to this site to tear TSA apart.
And now that you are all sad and hate the TSA, you probably treat them all like garbage and you continue to get bad reactions from them everytime that you fly.
Get over yourselves people.
July 25, 2008 1:51 PM
Quote from Dunstan: "No sense of moral indignation at the plight of the passenger? How would you personally feel if you were in that woman's place? Would you agree, that for the sake of security, some beatings and excessive force is necessary?"
Like the sign in my office says ...
"The beatings will continue until morale improves."
Robert
July 25, 2008 2:05 PM
Hey, it's Friday!
Where is the puppy dog post?
I want to see puppies!!
July 25, 2008 2:11 PM
Anonymous said...
"You know what, close down this blog, it's became absolutely worthless, it's the same 5 or 6 people who keep spamming this place, few people are very happy with the TSA, but coming from a person who has actually lived through a dictadorship..."
Actually, for you, there is a simpler, more satisfying solution.
Go to your toolbox and get out your biggest hammer. Bring it back to your computer, and find the nastiest post on the TSA Blog. Give that nasty post a good smack, go ahead, just wail on it. Feel better now?
"I find these comments about the TSA being militant as offensive, I've flown many times and honestly..."
Yes, honestly, what?
"You got good ones and you got bad ones, basically the same ratio as in other government agencies, except these guys are out in the open and you HAVE to get through them. Sure the policies need a little work and there needs to be MUCH more security added in areas like cargo and employee screening but these guys want LESS security."
Maybe more intelligently applied screening?
"And anybody that doesn't walk lockstep to their critiques against the TSA are bullied, ridiculed and their post picked apart for grammer and spelling mistakes and in general being called a "plant" or "apologist"...
Once again just shut the blog down, you'll be called several things, but as we all know, you can never satisfy these people..."
There are benefits to not sleeping through those pesky classes, I'll admit. Never hurts to use a spell checker, either.
And, I agree, you can't ever satisfy everyone. But that's just
human nature. I'm going to take a guess, however, and offer the opinion that Bob and the bloggers have gained quite a bit from this interactive blog. Maybe sweated off a few pounds as well.
July 25, 2008 2:17 PM
Anonymous said...
Trollkiller, bad example with security guards in Chicago. Philadelphia Security officers can be paid as high as 22.50 an hour which is 46,800.00 per year!
TSO's are on the low end of the Government pay system which is what we are trying to get our administration to see. Would you want your boss to pay you 14.45 an hour and tell you to stop crying because your getting benefits?
Everyone wants to be recognized for what they do, and the PASS system is NOT universal recognition for all, its subjective and unfair to say the least.
Median wage for a security guard in Philly is $21,569 or $10.37 per hour.
Rock bottom for a TSO in Philly is $24,432 plus location pay of 20.14% for a grand total of $29,352 or $14.11 per hr.
As you can see even before the location pay addition TSOs get paid above average for a security guard in Philly with the same education and physical requirements.
BTW TSOs can be paid as much as $36,648 plus location pay for a total of $44,028.
Let us look at your benefits because like it or not that is figured in on compensation.
# The Federal Employees Health Benefits (FEHB) Program has many plans to choose from and all at very reasonable rates, which can be paid from pre-tax income. In addition, to further promote employee wellness and affordable health coverage, part-time TSA Transportation Security Officers (TSOs) are able to take advantage of reduced FEHB premiums. TSA will pay the maximum government contribution allowed for health benefits under the TSA Health Benefit Incentive for Part-Time TSOs. All part-time TSOs will pay the same lower cost for federal health benefits as full-time employees. This means that TSA pays a greater portion of FEHB premium costs for part-time TSOs.
# The Federal Employees Retirement System is one of the premier retirement programs in the Nation. The program features three components: a retirement pension; the Thrift Savings Plan (an employee controlled investment program); and social security.
# Federal Employee Group Life Insurance offers numerous life insurance policy options covering employees and dependents.
# The leave program offers exceptional time off benefits including annual leave, sick leave, family medical leave, and 10 paid holidays per year.
# You may be eligible for career development and enrichment training; family friendly policies, such as flexible work schedules; and Employee Assistance Programs.
# If you commute using public transportation, you may be eligible for a transit subsidy.
Wow, not only do you get 10 paid holidays a year, you can get bus money, health insurance that is paid BEFORE taxes, retirement plan and life insurance. Just out of curiosity what do you pay for health insurance?
I am not going to argue the merits of PASS one way or the other, I just want you and the public to understand TSOs are paid well for what they do. TSOs are not MINIMUM wage flunkies.
If you feel that the wage is not enough, take the training you have received and try to make the same or better money in the private sector.
July 25, 2008 2:31 PM
Robert Johnson said...
If anything, this number is low. And can we really trust TSA's figures anyway? Kippie just said on Tuesday:
TSA has screened 3.5 billion passengers since the start-up of the agency, Hawley said, adding, "That's more than the population of the world.
Gee, did China and India just drop off the map? Looking at the US Census Bureau's website, the world's population is estimated to be 6,712,211,390.
If Kip's making up figures like that, how can we be sure that he's not making up other figures?
Kip was using the population estimates after all the terrorists are killed.
;-)
July 25, 2008 2:39 PM
First of all I am not going to lie and say that there are not some bad apples in TSA. The TSO's come from all different backgrounds and situations. Some people are just starting off in life. Some of them are retired and looking for something to do with there time. Some of the people are just looking for decent work. Because I know as well as anyone else that the economy is horrible and everyone is doing what they can to get by.
The TSO's do not make the rules they just enforce them. Do I as a TSO think that all of the rules make sense? Well not exactly. But all I can do is enforce them. Becaue that is my job. I didn't get this job with the intentions of making peoples lifes miserable, or hoping to ruin everyones day. But everyone that posts on this page just thinks we are all nasty people that are mean and we love to take things from the public.
Well I am sorry, but the rules of what to carry in your bags are online and on the news. What more do you people want. Do you know how many liquids we take a day? Do you realize how many people get mad at us for taking these liquids? And do you realize that the liquid rule has been in effect for 2 years now? Now come on!
For the most part TSO's are nice and just want to get you through the checkpoint quickly and efficiently. Yes sometimes I cringe at the sight of my co-workers behaviors. Sometimes things are uncalled for. But sometimes the passenger will dish it out first and I don't know why I or any other TSO would have to put up with that.
You posters think that you should be able to treat us however you want and we should bow down and kiss your feet. I don't think so! But for the most part we are all nice and well behaved at my airport. Except for the few that make us all look bad.
It is really frustrating dealing with thousands of confused passengers with hundreds of the same questions over and over all day long. It is hard to work in the publics eye when things are so fast paced. But for the TSO's that can not handle this, and can not follow all the rules while under presure, they need to find another job.
I am sorry that there are people who hate us. I don't know what to tell you.
This is a very new agency. 6 Years old is nothing. I am sure that there is a lot of improvement that needs to be made. But won't that come in time? I don't expect things to be perfect, but I expect them to get better and better with time.
Someone on here said that TSA hires anyone. Even people without a high school diploma. That is not true. A high school diploma is necissary to hold this position.
And everyone says that we are not the police so stop trying to be them. I do not think that I am a cop. I am not law enforcement. I in no way think that I am an authority figure. But there are a few who think that this job gives them authority. And if its authority they want, and they will treat anyone like garbage to prove their authority, then they need to go away. There is no customer service involved in power trips. And we are always supposed to practice good cusomer service.
Next time you people who just hate us go through the checkpoints, look around. Look for the TSO's with the smiles, that are assisting a passengers in need. I know that there is a lot of this at my airport. It should be going on at every airport.
People judge us before they even get to security. They are mad and ready to give us hell. Well walk in with a better attitude and maybe you will realize that it is not that bad.
And if you are treated unfairly, or TSO's are rude to you. Let a supervisor know. Because that is not how the TSO's are supposed to be treating people. The reason that they keep getting away with it is because people don't speak up.
July 25, 2008 2:51 PM
Someone anonymously wrote:
"the same 5 or 6 people who keep spamming this place"
First, spamming is the sending of unsolicited commercial e-mail. That's unrelated. But I suspect I know what you meant even though you wrote something else.
Second, itt's hard to tell how many individuals participate in discussions here because so many people choose to post anonymously, but I suspect there are many more than six. If you think there should be more, please participate. If you don't, then you're part of the problem you describe.
"anybody that doesn't walk lockstep to their critiques against the TSA are bullied, ridiculed and their post picked apart for grammer and spelling mistakes and in general being called a "plant" or "apologist""
I don't recall reading any such thing. Please cite some examples.
July 25, 2008 3:20 PM
Shutting down this blog as some annonymous poster suggested woiuld not be of ANY benefit to TSA or DHS: The perceived problems would still be discussed with no end in sight on other fora, and on those others the TSA doesn't have any control or voice. For example, on Boing Boing...
At least here there is the OPPORTUNITY for TSA to respond directly with their side of a kerfuffle, explaining the official view, or even better, correcting errors with facts.
This blog, as it matures and gets more support from within the TSA, could become a very good tool in improving communication in both directions across the screening table...
July 25, 2008 5:39 PM
Sorry about the spotty moderating today - Bob is out and I've not held up my end of the bargain in backing him up. Just got all caught up. A good weekend to all.
Lynn
EoS Blog Team
July 25, 2008 5:41 PM
In response to Phil -
1. Do the electronic strip-search machines (both backscatter imaging and "millimeter wave" versions) show operators only still images, or animated/video images?
2. If the latter, where can we see a sample of what that video looks like?
It's a still image, not video.
July 25, 2008 5:43 PM
Sandra said...
Wintermute, he answered your question about why the complaint form is SSI by saying it's not SSI until it's been completed. ???????
Yet another non-sequitur. My question was why is the complaint form SSI after it has been completed? My observation was that this gives the appearance that the TSA is sweeping complaints under the rug, and if there were a little transparency on how the TSA deals with their bad apples, they may gain a bit of respect.
July 25, 2008 5:44 PM
In response to Phil -
1. What is an "adaptive terrorist"?
Terrorists have had to adapt their methods of attack. Can't bring a boxcutter on a plane anymore. Cockpit doors are hardened. So as measures go into place to stop them, they have to adapt and change their techniques.
July 25, 2008 5:44 PM
trollkiller:
I disagree with your opinion that TSO's get paid well for what they do. Comparing them to a normal security officer is apples and oranges. The amount of training to become a TSO now is much more extensive then what any security officer will get. Heck when I was 18 all I had to do to get my gaurd license was take a mulitiple choice test no class room training no on the job training. The hardest bit of work I did as a security gaurd was sit in a guard shack and log all 5 trucks that came into the gate during my 12 hour shift. I could go on but I think you get the point I am trying to make.
Also you left out a important bit when forming your argument.
Despite the public’s call for a federalized, well-trained and well-compensated screener workforce
well trained is the key, the AFGE not only wants to increase pay but the amount of training that goes into becoming a TSO, if AFGE gets there way you will see alot of changes that will actually increase security and hopefully more professional tso's.
July 25, 2008 6:06 PM
Hey, Trollkiller, can you start a survey for TSA screeners? I want to see a show of hands of those screeners who truly and unequivocally believe that the job they are doing is keeping the skies safe from terrorists.
I'd also like them to indicate their highest level of education, i.e., high school grad, GED, some college, college grad.
As you can perhaps tell, I am having a difficult time dealing with some of the drivel posted here by people who allegedly work for the TSA.
July 25, 2008 6:45 PM
"You got that right, at my checkpoint there is like 30 cameras, that's why I laugh when people suggest you can rob anything and get away with it."
Yeah... my missing DS Lite and headphones say otherwise.
July 25, 2008 6:56 PM
" Lynn said...
In response to Phil -
1. What is an "adaptive terrorist"?
Terrorists have had to adapt their methods of attack. Can't bring a boxcutter on a plane anymore. Cockpit doors are hardened. So as measures go into place to stop them, they have to adapt and change their techniques.
July 25, 2008 5:44 PM"
So, perhaps they won't bother to use commercial aircraft again. It seems to be a constant tail chase for DHS. You have turned into a hive of busy little bees, with little to really show for it, if you don't count constant stress.
Maybe our next President will be someone who inspires people around the world to take a more positive view of America, and inspires us to be better world citizens.
July 25, 2008 8:12 PM
Trollkiller wrote:
Median wage for a security guard in Philly is $21,569 or $10.37 per hour.
**********************************
Trollkiller, having 17 years experience in the security field and having worked ALL aspects for the exception of a few, I can tell you from experience that there are jobs that pay upwards of $20.00 per hour. If you're talking walmart, or kmart security then your guesstimation is correct. But for an armed security officer, some jobs do pay what I stated. Now you may ask me then, if you can make upwards of $20 and hour why are you working for a measely 30k per year? Short, sweet and to the point....BENEFITS. I have a family and i need the benefits. But I can also say that it would be nice to make a little more money.
Tom
July 25, 2008 9:45 PM
Shut this blog down. Its been months and nothing good has come from it.
July 25, 2008 10:04 PM
I wonder how long it took the eeeeeeeeeeeevil people not to carry boxcutters, because it's been two years and still apparently they don't know not to bring more than 3.5 ounces of bomb-making material (oops, I mean "liquids") on board. Heck, the criminals haven't learned not to put bomb material in their shoes yet and it's been at least _six_ years since we were saved from that horrible attack.
Please please terrorists, please stop bringing so-called liquids and shoes on planes so that I can have 1/1000th of my civil rights back and be treated like 1/1000th of a human being again by my government! I'll bake cookies if you do, and you can bring them onto the plane. Until you can't any longer.
July 26, 2008 12:07 AM
Quote from Lynn:
Terrorists have had to adapt their methods of attack. Can't bring a boxcutter on a plane anymore. Cockpit doors are hardened. So as measures go into place to stop them, they have to adapt and change their techniques."
Seems like a zero sum game to be honest. You secure one thing, a terrorist moves to the next thing. They'll always be moving to the next thing. It's impossible to completely secure everything, unfortunately.
Here's a great paper just published by John Mueller of Ohio State:
The Quixotic Quest for Invulnerability: Assessing the Costs, Benefits, and Probabilities of Protecting the Homeland
Robert
July 26, 2008 12:15 AM
Although I'm new to the job, I agree with Dean, more or less, PASS is just a Bush administration way of not having to implement general schedule and collective bargaining and all that.
But I'm taking it since airport security is a new function for the feds, unlike doing customs, immigration and border patrol, so they got to keep General Schedule.
That's my newcomer's reasoning at that.
July 26, 2008 12:17 AM
This point is much appreciable "Please provide an example of a potential airline passenger who although not attempting to carry on anything prohibited, has such a great potential to cause a problem that he should be barred from traveling."
July 26, 2008 4:26 AM
Pay for performance is a bad idea for TSA. When a manufacturer uses PFP, they have numbers to judge performace. TSA really doesn't have a good way of judging performance and putting a number to it. Also, PFP is open to abuse by management dealing with their friends.
July 26, 2008 11:11 AM
yangj08 said...
"You got that right, at my checkpoint there is like 30 cameras, that's why I laugh when people suggest you can rob anything and get away with it."
Yeah... my missing DS Lite and headphones say otherwise.
-----------------------------
Did you actually call the police (which in turn would check the footage), or did you imagine that the cameras shoot beams at people that want to rob?
The people watching the cameras aren't looking for things like theft, that requires the passenger to use a little thing called personal responsability...
July 26, 2008 1:03 PM
The important thing to remember is that more often than anything the TSO reflects back whatever vibe you send them. We strive to give the higest [sic] level of customer service possible but if you come through the checkpoint in a bad mood as much as we try to provide high quality service and security for you, you will never see that.
I've said this before and I'll say it again -- The TSO's are in charge at the checkpoint, and as the ones with authority, set the tone of the checkpoint.
When I walk up to the checkpoint and the yelling starts before I've said or done anything, who's giving off a negative vibe? When the screeners are barking orders like a bunch of drill instructor wannabes instead of calmly giving instructions, who's giving off a negative vibe?
I offered the suggestion several times in the early days of this blog that the TSA should use "secret shoppers" to evaluate the checkpoint experience from the passengers' point of view, and that the results should affect the performance evaluations and pay of the TSO's, supervisors and management.
Heck, the results of these sorts of evaluations nationwide should affect Kip Hawley's pay.
At this point, I want to know when the TSA is going to put the same level of emphasis on interpersonal skills as on detecting prohibited items, such as a 4oz bottle of shampoo.
I've said this before and I'll say it again -- the TSA's personnel need to be trained and evaluated at how to be firm, but fair and courteous, and in no case act like authoritarian bullies.
July 26, 2008 1:11 PM
Anonymous said... (July 25, 2008 2:51 PM)
First of all I am not going to lie and say that there are not some bad apples in TSA. The TSO's come from all different backgrounds and situations.
Exactly. This same statement is true of any group of human beings: schoolteachers, doctors, the traveling public, and posters on this blog. We are all unique individuals, for better or worse, and we should try hard to remember that in all our personal interactions. We should not assume that all people who are "X" are the same.
The TSO's do not make the rules they just enforce them. Do I as a TSO think that all of the rules make sense? Well not exactly. But all I can do is enforce them.
Again, that's exactly correct. I think it is absolutely wrong for the traveling public to blame the TSOs on the front line for some of the crazy rules. We need to address such complaints to the people who have real power: the higher-ups at TSA, the TSA bloggers (who may not have much power but certainly have a voice), and our elected officials. TSOs who get yelled at for politely following the rules have my deepest sympathy.
I'm not denying that there are some bad apples in the traveling public. In fact, effective immediately I vow to step in whenever I see a passenger acting inappropriately towards a TSO who is behaving appropriately. I will gently remind the passenger that the TSO is just doing their job, and I'll add a word of support for that TSO. Would others care to join me in this effort?
But everyone that posts on this page just thinks we are all nasty people that are mean and we love to take things from the public.
OK, here is where I part company with this TSO poster, because he or she is inappropriately lumping people into categories. Words such as "everyone" and "all" are big clues. No, "everyone" that posts here does not think "all" TSOs are nasty people. Yes, there may be a few people who post who think that all TSAs are nasty people, but I'm not sure that is even true. I'd venture to guess that MOST people who post here think that MOST TSOs are basically decent people.
So, you might be thinking, "What's wrong with a little exaggeration to make a point? Of course, 'every' and 'all' aren't literally true, but sometimes it feels that way to me, and you know what I really mean."
I'll tell you what's wrong with that kind of exaggeration. It makes it way too easy to forget that we are all individuals, but instead to see each other as simply "one of the bad guys." The "us vs. them" mentality goes away if we stop thinking of others as "one of them."
What more do you people want?
Easy answer: we all want different things! We are not "you people," but are all individuals. Some of us want to be sped through security as fast as possible. Others want to take our time and get lots of help. Some want frequent reminders of the rules and others have them memorized and will scream if they hear them once more. Some prefer to give up all the freedom in the world to be as safe as possible, and others would rather take a few calculated risks than give up some basic liberties. We are not the same!
And do you realize that the liquid rule has been in effect for 2 years now?
And do you realize that some people are flying today for the very first time in their lives, or for the first time in 10 years or even just two years?
You posters think that you should be able to treat us however you want and we should bow down and kiss your feet.
OK, by now you should be able to guess my response: please don't lump all posters into a single category, just as we shouldn't lump all TSOs into a single category.
It is really frustrating dealing with thousands of confused passengers with hundreds of the same questions over and over all day long.
I'm sure this is very true. I don't know that I could do it myself. The TSA should really ask the TSOs for feedback on how to help the traveling public be less confused, because I'm sure you have some good advice. I'm also sure you realize that even though you've been asked the same question a hundred times that day, the next person who asks it has not heard the answer 100 times, so he or she deserves as much courtesy and patience as the first one who asked. This is tough, but it's called good customer service. Anyone who has ever worked retail knows this.
It is hard to work in the publics eye when things are so fast paced. But for the TSO's that can not handle this, and can not follow all the rules while under presure, they need to find another job.
I agree 100%.
I don't expect things to be perfect, but I expect them to get better and better with time.
Again, I agree 100%.
Well walk in with a better attitude and maybe you will realize that it is not that bad.
Agreed.
And if you are treated unfairly, or TSO's are rude to you. Let a supervisor know. Because that is not how the TSO's are supposed to be treating people. The reason that they keep getting away with it is because people don't speak up.
Once again, you and I are in agreement.
See, when people address each other as unique individuals, and not as one of "them," we can find a lot of common ground and we can work together to make improvements for everyone.
July 26, 2008 2:14 PM
@yangj08...
bingo you could have 1000 cameras but if their contents are SSI and the people doing the stealing control the reveiwing what good does it do? Theives aren't terrorists so they aren't of much interest to the TSO.
@anonymous TSO...you continue to think that our problem is with following the rules as opposed to the fact that the rules are insane. Maybe people are confused by the fact that the rules aren't the same at every checkpoint (or even within the checkpoint).
You also the real problem with the TSA. all of the screeners on here, except dean, respond with either 'well I don't know what happened' or 'its hard being a TSO' whenver somebody in your organization does something apalling. Wheres your respect in your organization and its easy to follow rules? You just accept bad apples doing something that likely should be prosecuted as sexual assault. Thats very telling when it comes up for discussion that copmlaints are considered 'sensitive security information'. This TSA attempt at a thin (white?) line is being put in place by management, as opposed to being fought by it which is really distrubing. You want to be seen as these vital members of society who protect the public, well there were a bunch of other TSOs who didn't protect either member of the public that was being assaulted by your peers. You have no credibility to make that claim anymore
Your, and your colleagues, lack of morale is not something you hsould be taking out on passengers...and just to clarify your not a figure of authority, despite how you act. Your claim and the way it is prosecuted are a black mark on American society.
July 26, 2008 2:32 PM
I'm curious, just who now makes up the Blog Team?
We have Bob, Christopher and Lynn.
We have heard from Nico a couple of times, and Sterling once (who is Sterling?).
There was discussion of enlarging the group but seems to not have happened yet.
So who are the current Blog members and Bios for any new or unannounced palyers please.
July 26, 2008 3:06 PM
Bob writes:
OK folks, I had to check to make sure I was even moderating the correct blog post. These comments are soooo far off topic.
So, if your post doesn't show up, now you know why.
We are going to answer your top 10 questions. I believe I explained in my blog post when I said:
"We’ll try to get them all posted within a week."
Sorry to be short, but lets stay on topic here.
Bob, with all due respect, and I do respect you... you do try hard, when the blog team comes out with a self serving piece such as this that does not address the really hot topics that your bosses, the people to whom the TSA is responsible, meaning us, want to hear, then we're not going to stick to what you want to talk about. We don't care to discuss your shiny keys. We do want answers to our very legitimate questions, many, most actually, of which have been pending for months.
I travel for work twice a week through various airports in the country. I have seen some fine examples of professional people at security, and I have seen some downright inconsiderate morons at the screening posts (guess which outnumbers which). Overall I am absolutely unimpressed with TSA, especially because I have had experience internationally with truly professional security people in other countries. I put up with what TSA puts me through only because at the beginning of the week I'm looking to get to my meetings with a minimum of hassle and at the end of the week I'm too tired to fight it and just want to get home.
In my humble opinion, there really is no one at the TSA who deserves a raise. In fact, in my humble opinion, the entire agency deserves a pink slip. We need to start over and put in airport security that makes sense, that respects the constitution, and that concentrates on actual threats to aviation and dispenses with the moronic security theater.
July 26, 2008 4:47 PM
An anonymous person (perhaps a TSO says):
And honestly, I CHALLENGE, yes I CHALLENGE you haters to get a job at the TSA, and after a few months tell me what a difficult and thankless job you have, and you just wish there were more people who were willing to make the whole ordeal easier for everyone.
Most of the people you are broad-brushing as "haters" appear to me to be people who see the TSA, its director, and most of its actions as at best illegal and frequently unconstitutional overreach in reaction to what one poster so elegantly described as "the paranoia of the moment." You have it easy. It is a lot less difficult to drink the kool-aid, to go with the flow and accept what is being done to you than to fight for what is right.
July 26, 2008 6:06 PM
Anonymous said...
You know what, close down this blog, it's became absolutely worthless, it's the same 5 or 6 people who keep spamming this place, few people are very happy with the TSA, but coming from a person who has actually lived through a dictadorship... I find these comments about the TSA being militant as offensive, I've flown many times and honestly...
Yet, at the same time, those same "5/6" people keep TSA on it's toes. It let's us know what faults we have w/ our system. And while both the blog team & people here may have some as they say "Snarky" remarks, it gives us a great place where we should focus our attention.
One of the faults however, is most of their questions are not answered.
July 26, 2008 6:24 PM
People on this site make it sound like TSA will have you take your clothes off in front of the whole airport. That is dumb. TSA does not do this.
..........................
So does TSA provide a private room for a strip search?
July 26, 2008 9:15 PM
Phil
Up-to-date copies of the reulations can be googled, look up 49CFR1540....those are the regs that deal with individuals, and also the TSA website has a list of things that could possibly land you in hot water.
July 26, 2008 9:47 PM
I keep reading responses from TSOs and it seems some of them get it while others don't. Maybe this will help the ones that don't.
You need to change your attitude when dealing with passengers, you have to look at them as YOUR customer. Every passenger pays a security fee to pay for the TSA and therefore to pay for your wages and benefits.
Greet the customer, make eye contact, smile and say "hi". This does two things, one it disarms the regular customer. It is hard to be mad when someone is being nice to you. The second thing it does is make the nefarious customer nervous. Folks that are up to no good do not like being noticed. If their eyes start darting, hands shake or they just look uncomfortable, you need to take a closer look at them.
When a customer is griping about some silly rule that you have no control over, you need to understand and assume that they are griping TO you not AT you. They are telling you about their displeasure because you are the immediate face of the TSA. Your customers hope that by telling you of their displeasure it will filter up to the decision makers and a change will be made.
This is a trick I use every time a customer complains to me about something I can't change, I empathize with them. "Yes ma'am I understand it is a silly rule but unfortunately they don't allow me to make the rules." depending on a quick read of the customer I may throw in some humor like "just think how lucky you are, two minutes and you are on your way but I am stuck enforcing the silly rule all day" or "if I made the rules there would be free daiquiris".
If the customer keeps complaining or asks you who made the silly rule, tell them or better yet keep cards in your pocket with the mailing address, phone number and website address of the TSA's complaint department.
The vast majority of customers will not file a complaint, they just want to gripe. By offering the addresses you endear yourself to that customer for not protecting your bosses and for not being part of the problem. For the tiny few that do want to file a complaint, you have taken a good bit of wind out of their sails because they most likely won't ask for an official complaint form. If they do ask for an official complaint form have one handy and take NO personal offense to the demand.
Remember your customer does not visit the airport everyday. If you keep hearing the same stupid questions hour after hour that means the TSA has failed you not the customer. Blame it on the TSA for not effectively conveying the information to the customer don't blame the customer.
And most of all realize that there are some customers that you can not make happy. These are normally just jerks and luckily for you in two minutes that jerk will be on their way. Don't let two minutes ruin your whole day. Just be glad you are not on the plane with them.
July 27, 2008 5:49 AM
But for an armed security officer, some jobs do pay what I stated. Now you may ask me then, if you can make upwards of $20 and hour why are you working for a measely 30k per year? Short, sweet and to the point....BENEFITS. I have a family and i need the benefits. But I can also say that it would be nice to make a little more money.
Tom
...........................
Your not an "armed Security Officer".
If you had the qualifications and need to be armed then I would think that you would earn more.
Face it, you screen people and their belongings for weapons, explosives and other prohibited items. Thats pretty much it. Seems to me that your compensated fairly well for what you do. If it's not enough then find a line of employment that meets your expectations.
July 27, 2008 12:19 PM
Yup, great tested professionals who can't identify a Macbook Air as a computer... What does that make Best Buy employees, uber-geniuses??
Stop patting yourselves on the back and deal with your systemic problems. We really don't need more PR campaigns and spin from TSA no matter what your top management read in a magazine.
July 27, 2008 12:49 PM
TSO Tom said...
Trollkiller wrote:
Median wage for a security guard in Philly is $21,569 or $10.37 per hour.
**********************************
Trollkiller, having 17 years experience in the security field and having worked ALL aspects for the exception of a few, I can tell you from experience that there are jobs that pay upwards of $20.00 per hour. If you're talking walmart, or kmart security then your guesstimation is correct.
But for an armed security officer, some jobs do pay what I stated.
Now you may ask me then, if you can make upwards of $20 and hour why are you working for a measely 30k per year? Short, sweet and to the point....BENEFITS. I have a family and i need the benefits. But I can also say that it would be nice to make a little more money.
If I am reading your post right, you stick to a "low paying" TSO job because the benefits outweigh the extra money you can make as a gun toting security guard.
In the private sector, how much would a person just starting out make doing the level of security a TSO does?
You mentioned that an armed guard could make more, but as we know TSOs are not armed. We also know the job is more involved than a KMart security guard. So where on the Kmart to Armed security scale would a TSO be?
Just out of curiosity how much does the health insurance for a family run?
July 27, 2008 1:19 PM
TSO Tom wrote...
...I can tell you from experience that there are jobs that pay upwards of $20.00 per hour. If you're talking walmart, or kmart security then your guesstimation is correct. But for an armed security officer, some jobs do pay what I stated.
Thank Ghu the TSOs are not armed...
There is a big difference between a 'carry-on screener' and an 'armed guard' in both qualification and pay.
The other Tom :o)
July 27, 2008 3:56 PM
Somebody please explain something to me -- in the case of the nipple piercing incident, the screeners couldn't do a simple visual check to verify the passenger's claim. Supposedly, that would violate SOP.
However, a screener can pull down a 71 year old man's pants in public view over a knee replacement, or can pull down a 16 year old girl's pants in public view over a prosthetic leg.
What in blazes does the SOP say that would prohibit a visual check of a woman's breasts in private, but allows pulling people's pants down in public view?
Here's a pay for performance idea--
Because a passenger can be fined substantially for "interfering with the screening process" or for "abusing" TSA personnel, how about corresponding fines for screeners who abuse a passenger?
As the old saying goes, "what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander."
July 28, 2008 8:36 AM
When a customer is griping about some silly rule that you have no control over, you need to understand and assume that they are griping TO you not AT you. They are telling you about their displeasure because you are the immediate face of the TSA. Your customers hope that by telling you of their displeasure it will filter up to the decision makers and a change will be made.
July 28, 2008 9:10 AM
Kathy & Trollkiller:
Thank you both for those last two comments, they were both thoughtfelt and genuine.
This blog has come a long way, I've just agreed with the trollkiller, when will this madness end :-). That last line was humor for those that did not get it.
Again Thank You for the great comments.
And remember we are more alike than different.
July 28, 2008 9:23 AM
Somone said:
"You got that right, at my checkpoint there is like 30 cameras, that's why I laugh when people suggest you can rob anything and get away with it."
Yangj08 replied:
Yeah... my missing DS Lite and headphones say otherwise.
Anonymous replied:
Did you actually call the police (which in turn would check the footage), or did you imagine that the cameras shoot beams at people that want to rob?
The people watching the cameras aren't looking for things like theft, that requires the passenger to use a little thing called personal responsability...
Ok, I have to call BS on this one.
Someone steals yangj08's personal items at a checkpoint, and now it's his fault for not reporting it?
If TSA requires that I be separated from my personal effects during the screening process, TSA ought to ensure that those items remain secured until I can claim them at the end of the screening process.
July 28, 2008 9:36 AM
Hm. It seems that something I wrote, in response to TSA loves you's hypothetical situations regarding the TSAgents (cute term, by the by~) got gobbled up by the Delete-o-Meter.
Sucks, that. I'm not about to sit and re-write all of that crap, though.
More to the point--
Kathy wrote:
I don't know that I could do it myself.
While it's not exactly the context of what you said there, I was cruising around the Internet and found an article from March of 2007, from a journalist (of sorts; she's more of an "aviation correspondent" for a travel magazine) who decided to go undercover into the TSA to get a look from the inside.
It's fifteen pages long, has both good and bad stuff about the TSA in it, is an enjoyable read, and -- most importantly -- seems pretty accurate from my own experiences inside TSA.
If you wanna scope it out, here's the link:
My Life as an Airport Screener
July 28, 2008 9:59 AM
So what is your detection performance? 50%? Less?
Are your red team detection statistics different than those published by investigative reporters? If they are better, then your testers and testees are probably gaming your pay for performance system, if they are worse, well, you have a long way to go before you can talk about your "security" being anything other than theatre.
Expecting quality results from an incapable system is wishful thinking and bad management.
July 28, 2008 10:19 AM
Wow Trollkiller you really need to be out there on the battlefield, those little things are good for some passengers but I'm willing to bet my life that you don't know how many mean-spirited bullies like to fly and mess with TSOs.
In fact, It's funny how so many posters here think we have this kind of vice like grip over the checkpoint, it's far from that, we are paper tigers armed with jack-diddly. We can't even fine, we have less to work with than meter-maids.
I consider myself to have excellent customer service skills, I have worked for the airlines in the past so I know how to pull off a smiling face when I don't feel like smiling (and I have worked recieving complaints from passengers who lost their luggage, and yes the TSA is even more intense than that), but things don't last very long because soon enough you'll get one of these airport tough guys that will smack that grin off your face.
You know, Trollkiller, I formally challenge you to get a job at the TSA and see how it feels to have the shoe on the other foot.
It's easy to critize if you've never been on the battlefield...
July 28, 2008 11:20 AM
to Trollkiller:
HA HA HA HA HA HA, do you think a smile will do anything to stop an irate passenger, it's clear you have ZERO airport experience.
Ever been called a pissant, a ugly moron, a loser, a power hungry nazi, or even had a racial slur thrown at you? We have people here who've worked in correction centers and passengers still get under their skin...
I'm sorry sir, but I must respectfully state, that you have no idea what you are talking about.
July 28, 2008 11:26 AM
Trollkiller said...
I keep reading responses from TSOs and it seems some of them get it while others don't. Maybe this will help the ones that don't.
You need to change your attitude when dealing with passengers, you have to look at them as YOUR customer. Every passenger pays a security fee to pay for the TSA and therefore to pay for your wages and benefits.
Greet the customer, make eye contact, smile and say "hi". This does two things, one it disarms the regular customer. It is hard to be mad when someone is being nice to you. The second thing it does is make the nefarious customer nervous. Folks that are up to no good do not like being noticed. If their eyes start darting, hands shake or they just look uncomfortable, you need to take a closer look at them.
When a customer is griping about some silly rule that you have no control over, you need to understand and assume that they are griping TO you not AT you. They are telling you about their displeasure because you are the immediate face of the TSA. Your customers hope that by telling you of their displeasure it will filter up to the decision makers and a change will be made.
This is a trick I use every time a customer complains to me about something I can't change, I empathize with them. "Yes ma'am I understand it is a silly rule but unfortunately they don't allow me to make the rules." depending on a quick read of the customer I may throw in some humor like "just think how lucky you are, two minutes and you are on your way but I am stuck enforcing the silly rule all day" or "if I made the rules there would be free daiquiris".
If the customer keeps complaining or asks you who made the silly rule, tell them or better yet keep cards in your pocket with the mailing address, phone number and website address of the TSA's complaint department.
The vast majority of customers will not file a complaint, they just want to gripe. By offering the addresses you endear yourself to that customer for not protecting your bosses and for not being part of the problem. For the tiny few that do want to file a complaint, you have taken a good bit of wind out of their sails because they most likely won't ask for an official complaint form. If they do ask for an official complaint form have one handy and take NO personal offense to the demand.
Remember your customer does not visit the airport everyday. If you keep hearing the same stupid questions hour after hour that means the TSA has failed you not the customer. Blame it on the TSA for not effectively conveying the information to the customer don't blame the customer.
And most of all realize that there are some customers that you can not make happy. These are normally just jerks and luckily for you in two minutes that jerk will be on their way. Don't let two minutes ruin your whole day. Just be glad you are not on the plane with them.
***********************************
Trollkiller;
thank you for the calm perspective and words that every TSO should keep in mind when a passenger starts griping. For the TSO's out there, let's step back a little bit, stop being defensive, and try to look at this from the other person's point of view. I think if we do this, things will go differently, not only at the checkpoint but in this blog as well. I've called for an end to this blog, but trollkiller has made a valid point...ending the blog at this point will only lead to more animosity from the public toward TSA. So, from this point forward, I will try to keep a calm head when reading complaints from the public and not think of them as personal attacks on me. By the way, a friendly smile and face at the mag does make for a friendly face and smile in return, I have discovered this to be very true.
Tom
July 28, 2008 11:32 AM
This may be a bit off-topic for this particular article however I feel that it is on-topic for the TSA Blog.
TSA for any number of good reasons started this blog with several collateral duty Blog Operators. The results of this have been uneven blog moderation with some long gaps in getting current questions or repsonses posted.
It would seem to me that if TSA really thought that this endeavor was important that needed resources would have been allocated to support the effort. As of late it seems even less attention is being paid to keeping the blog going.
Why would TSA roll out an effort like this and not provide enough agency support?
Lack of support tells me that TSA leadership really could care less about the blog. If I am right why continue with a failed venture?
July 28, 2008 12:07 PM
99.9% of your 2,000,000 people per day leaves 2,000 threats per day. Are you saying you thwart 2,000 threats per day, or are you just sloppy with your metrics?
July 28, 2008 12:20 PM
"And do you realize that the liquid rule has been in effect for 2 years now?"
And do you realize that the 3.4-1-1 rule is as nonsensical and pointless now as it was two years ago?
July 28, 2008 1:10 PM
Anonymous said...
So does TSA provide a private room for a strip search?
On first read I thought that said "strip show". I was shocked, appalled and mildly intrigued all at the same time.
Just waitin' for the meds to kick in.
July 28, 2008 1:15 PM
Anonymous said...
Phil
Up-to-date copies of the reulations can be googled, look up 49CFR1540....those are the regs that deal with individuals, and also the TSA website has a list of things that could possibly land you in hot water.
Would this be the same 49 CFR 1540 that prohibits the use of a forced ID verification as a criterion for granting access to a sterile area?
July 28, 2008 1:23 PM
An Anonymous person wrote:
So does TSA provide a private room for a strip search?
In the event that, to complete the screening process and resolve all alarms, an article of clothing has to be removed or lifted which would expose a passenger's "sensitive areas" or underclothing garments, then, yes, a private screening area is available at every checkpoint.
The exact process is to gather up all of the passenger's personal effects and property, and, with another TSO as witness, take the passenger to the private screening area to complete the screening.
At Huntsville, we have a windowless room attached to the checkpoint with a door, and no cameras, to use as a private screening area. Maybe not all airport checkpoints have such nice accommodations as we have, but I do know that every checkpoint does have a private screening area.
Trollkiller wrote:
Just out of curiosity how much does the health insurance for a family run?
Dunno if this was just a general question for health insurance of all kinds, or TSA-specific, but the health insurance for me and my family runs about $320 a month.
July 28, 2008 1:36 PM
Quote from Trollkiller: "Just out of curiosity how much does the health insurance for a family run?"
Federal health insurance rates are available on the OPM's website. They vary by state and plan selected, but it seems to be $200-400 a month depending on the selected plan and location. It also lists the actual premium, what the gov't pays, and what the employee pays, so it provides a pretty good quantification.
http://www.opm.gov/insure/health/08rates/index.asp
Robert
July 28, 2008 1:45 PM
I asked:
"Where has TSA published up-to-date copies of all rules and regulations that TSA requires someone to abide by in order to fly via commercial air from one American state to another without leaving the country?"
No one from TSA has responded.
Someone anonymously responded:
"Up-to-date copies of the reulations can be googled, look up 49CFR1540....those are the regs that deal with individuals, and also the TSA website has a list of things that could possibly land you in hot water."
A Google search for "49CFR1540" results in links to lots of sites that don't appear to have an official and concise listing of the relevant rules and regulations.
I'll refine my question a bit.
Where has TSA published a list of all the rules and regulations that TSA will subject someone to if that person wishes to cross a U.S. Government checkpoint at an airport en route to the gate from which his domestic flight will depart? Please provide a URL or name of the government publication.
Surely there's a simple answer to this. We require every air traveler to follow certain rules in addition to normal law that people are required to abide by at all times. Where have we published those rules so that travelers can make themselves familiar with them in order to comply?
July 28, 2008 1:53 PM
Robert Johnson - an excellent paper. Thanks so much for the link!
July 28, 2008 2:31 PM
Jim Huggins wrote...
Someone steals yangj08's personal items at a checkpoint, and now it's his fault for not reporting it?
If TSA requires that I be separated from my personal effects during the screening process, TSA ought to ensure that those items remain secured until I can claim them at the end of the screening process.
I'll have to mostly agree with that, Jim. :o)
In passing through the TSA's checkpoint, travelers are REQUIRED to hand over their personal belongings to the TSOs, and to entrust the TSA with the control and protection of their property until that property is returned specifically to the owner by the TSA.
If the TSA has sole control and responsibility for the property from the time when it leaves the owner's direct control until it is returned to the owner, if it is lost, stolen, or damaged while in their control, the TSA needs to step up and make the owner whole.
The property owner has NO choice but to allow TSA to have sole control and responsibility for their property if they wish to pass through the checkpoint.
The owner's responsibility should be to officially notify the TSA (via any of the TSOs in the immediate area) if their property is missing or damaged.
(At that point, if the item is missing, I would fully expect the TSA to halt movement of others in the area until the security video could be consulted and the property returned to the owner.)
In any case, if a travelers property is lost, stolen or damaged while out of the owner's control at TSA's demand, TSA needs to take full responsibility for the loss.
Bottom line, if the traveler does not notify TSA of the loss, TSA has no expectation of knowing about it, even though the property was under their control at their demand. Once TSA is notified, though, they need to step up and correct the problem.
(BTW, there is just something wrong with anyone being able to steal property at a manned security checkpoint with full video surveillance...)
July 28, 2008 3:26 PM
Trollkiller said...
Anonymous said...
So does TSA provide a private room for a strip search?
On first read I thought that said "strip show". I was shocked, appalled and mildly intrigued all at the same time.
Just waitin' for the meds to kick in.
.................................
Not to worry TK. The responder indicated that TSA would never strip search a person in view of the public. That response did not rule out a stip search in any case. Hence the question.
If the poster knows what they are talking about then it sounds as if a strip search is not out of the question.
I would expect some charges to be filed before submitting to any such search, of course obeying the law doesn't seem to be very important for the TSA workers.
July 28, 2008 3:45 PM
"Where has TSA published a list of all the rules and regulations that TSA will subject someone to if that person wishes to cross a U.S. Government checkpoint at an airport en route to the gate from which his domestic flight will depart? Please provide a URL or name of the government publication."
Some guides (including those for diabled passengers):
http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/index.shtm#7
http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/specialneeds/index.shtm
http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/specialneeds/editorial_1567.shtm
I don't know if that is what you are specifically looking for, but tsa.gov is filled with different links and articles on the travel experience.
July 28, 2008 3:46 PM
and the bloggers have completely disappeared again....we got one group of semi-answers in the comments of the other post and then nothing...
July 28, 2008 3:50 PM
Okay. Two posts of mine seem to have gotten gobbled up by the Delete-o-Meter.
>:|
Care to explain how under all that's holy could either of them have been considered in violation of the Blog rules, guys?
>:|
July 28, 2008 5:32 PM
“Marshall's SO said...
Hey, Trollkiller, can you start a survey for TSA screeners? I want to see a show of hands of those screeners who truly and unequivocally believe that the job they are doing is keeping the skies safe from terrorists.
I'd also like them to indicate their highest level of education, i.e., high school grad, GED, some college, college grad.
As you can perhaps tell, I am having a difficult time dealing with some of the drivel posted here by people who allegedly work for the TSA.”
I love working for TSA because I feel, “I” make a difference. All that matters to me is that you (ungrateful) individuals who constantly complain make it home to your love ones. I work for TSA as an Officer- I have a BA, MA and diligently working to obtain a PhD. in Emergency Management in 2010. Any other questions?
Here is my rant; I don't like the fact that my wages are advertised and the ability for my promotion is being scrutinized by people that have disdain for the agency. The fact is passengers do like the officers; they don't like the SOP officers utilize to protect them. We (TSOs) are equivalent to the IRS and Lawyers. You need us but don’t want us. The fact of the matter is; I have earned everything I have and it will not be taken away. Everyone has to remember that the way they treat a person will be remembered by that person. So if today you belittle me as a TSO; tomorrow I may be your boss.
July 28, 2008 6:27 PM
Why would anyone complain about TSA? After what happened to Drew Griffin people are on notice that you will be dealt with.
Nobody likes a snitch. He's lucky he wasn't whacked by the friendly, helpful TSA guards.
July 28, 2008 8:29 PM
CBGB said...
and the bloggers have completely disappeared again....we got one group of semi-answers in the comments of the other post and then nothing...
July 28, 2008 3:50 PM
Seems like Kippy lost interest when he figured out that we wouldn't all roll over for his TSA Spin.
July 28, 2008 9:59 PM
TSO Rachel,
those guides are not the written rules that are supposed to be enforced. Without the actual rules, we are unable to tell if the rules are actually being enforced correctly. Site the guide, and your likely to be told thats wrong.
July 28, 2008 10:56 PM
Anonymous said...
Wow Trollkiller you really need to be out there on the battlefield, those little things are good for some passengers but I'm willing to bet my life that you don't know how many mean-spirited bullies like to fly and mess with TSOs.
In fact, It's funny how so many posters here think we have this kind of vice like grip over the checkpoint, it's far from that, we are paper tigers armed with jack-diddly. We can't even fine, we have less to work with than meter-maids.
I consider myself to have excellent customer service skills, I have worked for the airlines in the past so I know how to pull off a smiling face when I don't feel like smiling (and I have worked recieving complaints from passengers who lost their luggage, and yes the TSA is even more intense than that), but things don't last very long because soon enough you'll get one of these airport tough guys that will smack that grin off your face.
You know, Trollkiller, I formally challenge you to get a job at the TSA and see how it feels to have the shoe on the other foot.
It's easy to critize if you've never been on the battlefield...
That is exactly the attitude I was talking about when I said you need to see passengers as your customers.
I think at one time you may have had fantastic customer skills, at one time you looked upon passengers as paying customers because that is what they were to you when you worked at the airlines.
Now you see passengers as the enemy as evidence by you using "battlefield" twice.
Those little things I mentioned are basic guidelines for anyone in customer service. I am sure those little things were standard training at the airlines.
Did the TSA training exorcise your good customer skills? After reading the link that Dean posted I think most likely that is what happened.
It would appear you go to work everyday loathing the fact that you do not have omnipotent control over the passengers. You cry you have less power than a meter maid. You do realize in most places meter maids are law enforcement, you on the other hand are rule enforcement.
Guess what, your bullying customers loathe you too. Those "mean-spirited" customers are tired of cranky TSOs that act in a rude manner. They are tired of the charade and do not look forward to what can only be described as a violation to personal space akin to a prostate exam.
Just like a doctor, you need to use your bedside manner. Please and thank you go a really long way.
Here is another trick that may help you, phrase your orders in the form of a request. "do me a favor and lay your baggie flat in the bin, thank you" or "you can place your shoes in this bin" or "may I see your ID please..., thank you" and smile.
If you must give someone a secondary screen, apologize for the inconvenience. Heck joke to them a little bit "I don't think you are a bad guy, but we must obey the boarding pass" (Do this in a Gypsy teller voice.)
All I am saying is stop viewing me or any other passenger as the enemy, as someone you have to conquer. You don't own us, you never will own us. The best you can hope for is our cooperation, but that cooperation begins with YOU.
As for your generous challenge to get a job as a screener so I can see the battlefield, no can do. Sorry.
But if it makes you feel better I can guarantee that the screening battlefield is not as bad as working retail on Black Friday and dealing with turkey and rum ball hung over people fighting over the last "tickle me" whatever.
BTW I know not every technique works on every customer, some are showing out to impress their friends, some are showing out because they have a point to prove and some are just nasty little losers. It happens, but you can not let the jerks “smack the smile off your face”. The next guy in line probably thinks the jerk is being a fool. If you are being insulted remember this “If it does not apply, let it fly”.
One more thing, you can never pull off a successful forced smile, it is like a false compliment, the customer will always know.
Go to work with the determination that you will be happy no matter what foolishness goes your way.
Pretty soon that battlefield will become a meadow.
July 29, 2008 1:14 AM
Anonymous said...
Not to worry TK. The responder indicated that TSA would never strip search a person in view of the public.
Whew, I was wonder where I was going to get dollar bills.
rimshot.... I am here all week, don't forget to tip your wait staff.
July 29, 2008 1:17 AM
Phil said...
A Google search for "49CFR1540" results in links to lots of sites that don't appear to have an official and concise listing of the relevant rules and regulations.
You have to put in spaces in your search or just follow this link.
July 29, 2008 1:21 AM
"Did you actually call the police (which in turn would check the footage), or did you imagine that the cameras shoot beams at people that want to rob?
The people watching the cameras aren't looking for things like theft, that requires the passenger to use a little thing called personal responsability..."
Not all of us get all-day layovers. In my case, I was coming from an international flight with a short layover. (Ever been through Customs? Have to take out checked luggage and recheck it, then get to the domestic terminal, then go through TSA screening, then rush to the gate) No time because it was the last flight out to where I was going.
Maybe I should have kept it in my pocket- probably wouldn't have set off the metal detector.
July 29, 2008 1:55 AM
Hey nice job guys!
http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=136883
July 29, 2008 5:01 AM
@tso rachel
Those links in no way actually list the rules and enabling legislation. They are vague and sidestep all the hard questions. We need the actual regulations and laws as we are supposedly a country that doesn't believe in secret laws and arbitrary detention.
July 29, 2008 8:36 AM
It has now been 11 days since the "Calling All Lurkers" thread was posted and 6 days since Bob said "The top 10 will be posted as a new blog post when it is ready to be published."
What's taking so long, Bob?
July 29, 2008 11:06 AM
@ TSO Rachel:
Here the TSA says:
"Medications must be labeled so they are identifiable",
while here TSA says:
"We recommend, but do not require, that your medications be labeled to assist with the screening process."
Certainly, the TSA site is filled with links and articles, but
how are travellers supposed to make sense of these "rules" if they are not consistent with themselves? Let alone with what some TSOs interpret them as?
July 29, 2008 1:14 PM
Trollkiller wrote:
Just out of curiosity how much does the health insurance for a family run?
Dunno if this was just a general question for health insurance of all kinds, or TSA-specific, but the health insurance for me and my family runs about $320 a month.
July 28, 2008 1:36 PM
***********************************
TSA deducts $257.00 and some change from my pay every two weeks for my family and myself. This averages about $514.00 per month. Not TOO bad in comparison to paying it myself(well over $1,000 per month), but it is a pretty big bite out of my check.
July 29, 2008 4:43 PM
To the TSOs, anonymous and otherwise, who are starting to see that the "regulars" here are not being adversarial for the sake of it, but asking valid questions, thank you. I just wonder where Bob got off to with those answers we were promised, or if they've been marked SSI ;)
July 29, 2008 5:31 PM
Did everyone monitoring the blog quit?
July 29, 2008 6:05 PM
This blog is useless. First they systematically ignore our requests and suggestions. Now they completely ignore us. I give up.
July 29, 2008 6:33 PM
Hello? Hello? Is this thing on?
I am hoping all the delays in moderation is due to the TSA blog team working on those top ten questions.
Any idea when those will be posted?
July 29, 2008 7:21 PM
CBGB said...
and the bloggers have completely disappeared again....we got one group of semi-answers in the comments of the other post and then nothing...
Come on guys, we've taunted them, hurled veiled and not so veiled insults at them, so many hoots of derision that it sounds like a flock of a million owls, and enough scorn to even make the most die hard supporter of TSA want to don a paper bag when appearing in public.
Hey, guys, come back out and play again. We really didn't mean it. And sycophant really isn't a dirty word.
July 30, 2008 12:05 AM
Kip, Please take a few minutes away from signing all those pay-for-performance cash awards to respond to this:
http://tiny.cc/DOJWhistleBlower
This time, tell us the truth. We don't need the standard double-speak nonsense you posted about the lists.
If she (and Drew Griffin) were put on at least one of the lists in retaliation, just tell the truth. Nothing will happen to you or your boss....not in this administration.
July 30, 2008 6:55 AM
No Blog activity since evening of 7/28.
If your going to pull the plug on this wouldn't a sign-off post be in order?
Something like, heh it was fun but you people ask real hard questions that we don't want to answer.
I have to say my expectations have been met.
July 30, 2008 10:17 AM
I have been a TSO since day one and can tell you that Pass is a horrible system. Everything Gale said is just the opposite of the truth.
July 30, 2008 12:10 PM
HSVTSO Dean said...
Okay. Two posts of mine seem to have gotten gobbled up by the Delete-o-Meter.
Comments are not approved in order. I've thought some of mine have been gobbled, just to appear later. Of course, by the time they've been approved, they've been buried under more recent comments that were already approved.
July 30, 2008 12:44 PM
Anonymous said...
to Trollkiller:
HA HA HA HA HA HA, do you think a smile will do anything to stop an irate passenger, it's clear you have ZERO airport experience.
Ever been called a pissant, a ugly moron, a loser, a power hungry nazi, or even had a racial slur thrown at you? We have people here who've worked in correction centers and passengers still get under their skin...
I'm sorry sir, but I must respectfully state, that you have no idea what you are talking about.
Have I ever had a customer throw a racial slur at me? Yes I have. Did it offend me? Yes it did. Did I take it out on the next customer? NO.
It's all about attitude. Were you acting like a piss ant, power hungry Nazi, ugly moron or loser? What about the TSO they just dealt with a few seconds earlier?
How many barking TSOs did that customer have to tolerate before they got to you?
Your smile may do nothing to make a pissed off customer happy, BUT (pay attention) your smile will help to keep a customer from getting pissed off in the first place.
July 30, 2008 1:46 PM
9091 said...
trollkiller:
I disagree with your opinion that TSO's get paid well for what they do. Comparing them to a normal security officer is apples and oranges. The amount of training to become a TSO now is much more extensive then what any security officer will get. Heck when I was 18 all I had to do to get my gaurd license was take a mulitiple choice test no class room training no on the job training. The hardest bit of work I did as a security gaurd was sit in a guard shack and log all 5 trucks that came into the gate during my 12 hour shift. I could go on but I think you get the point I am trying to make.
Also you left out a important bit when forming your argument.
Despite the public’s call for a federalized, well-trained and well-compensated screener workforce
well trained is the key, the AFGE not only wants to increase pay but the amount of training that goes into becoming a TSO, if AFGE gets there way you will see alot of changes that will actually increase security and hopefully more professional tso's.
I am sorry I did not see this until now, please excuse the tardy reply.
TSOs are well compensated for the job they do. When you were sitting in the guard shack logging trucks did you make higher than the median guard wage or lower?
Classroom "training" does not change the skill level required on the floor. Heck I once had to take 3 weeks of training in order to sell electronics. After I had the job I still had to train once a month on new products, procedures and so forth. Guess what I was still paid according to the actual skill level required.
I asked this of another poster but I will ask you too. Where on the K Mart to Armed Guard scale do TSOs fall?
Should you get raises based on performance and longevity, of course you should. I am not arguing against that.
I am just getting tired of hearing the TSO whine that they are under paid. If you take the starting wage plus the benefits TSOs are compensated well. TSOs are taking the standard Government and union worker mindset that they are worth more than they really are.
Don't worry I have the same opinion of "underpaid" policemen, firemen, teachers, autoworkers, postal employees and others of that ilk.
July 30, 2008 2:36 PM
Marshall's SO said...
Hey, Trollkiller, can you start a survey for TSA screeners? I want to see a show of hands of those screeners who truly and unequivocally believe that the job they are doing is keeping the skies safe from terrorists.
I'd also like them to indicate their highest level of education, i.e., high school grad, GED, some college, college grad.
As you can perhaps tell, I am having a difficult time dealing with some of the drivel posted here by people who allegedly work for the TSA.
I understand your difficulty but I don't think I could make a fair poll. It would be too easy for non TSOs to skew the results.
July 30, 2008 2:39 PM
@wintermute
even more security through obscurity ;)
actually got answered in the other thread, negative comments require a second look...that takes longer
July 30, 2008 3:10 PM
CBGB said...
@wintermute
even more security through obscurity ;)
actually got answered in the other thread, negative comments require a second look...that takes longer
I saw that... I was gonna rant about how that has the side effect of burying the negative comments, but thought I'd give the EoS blog team the benefit of the doubt this once ;)
July 30, 2008 5:53 PM
So, if the TSO are dedicated security professionals why aren't then entrusted with professional judgement? That is if something is inspected and seen safe why can't it be carried?
And why aren't the TSO personnel consistent? Two separate air travel legs I was allowed some items, a third leg they were prohibited.
You guys make up your minds. And, train your TSO people to at least act human.
July 30, 2008 6:36 PM
Here is my rant; I don't like the fact that my wages are advertised and the ability for my promotion is being scrutinized by people that have disdain for the agency.
You never were in the military. Everyone in the military wears their paycheck on their uniform. If you don't like those conditions then find other employment where your salary is confidential.
The fact is passengers do like the officers; they don't like the SOP officers utilize to protect them.
Protect me? Bwahahahahaha^100^100.
How about doing the job outlined in TSA's original mandate (i.e. keeping weapons, explosives and incendiary devices off of the aircraft. Oh, and when does cargo get the scrutiny that passengers do? If the SOP bears any resemblance to the documents on TSA's website then we understand the general state of confusion and uncertainty on the part of TSOs.
We (TSOs) are equivalent to the IRS and Lawyers.
No, you are equivalent to private security guards with an attitude, and answer to no one. That makes for a very bad combination.
You need us but don’t want us.
Need you? Airport security really hasn't improved much since TSA took it over. The new uniforms, badges, etc are just another prop in security theater.
The fact of the matter is; I have earned everything I have and it will not be taken away.
I want nothing you have. So where did that comment come from?
Everyone has to remember that the way they treat a person will be remembered by that person. So if today you belittle me as a TSO; tomorrow I may be your boss.
I seriously doubt that you will be my boss tomorrow or any other day. You strike me as being a petty, vindictive individual on a power trip. You might consider quiting before being fired. You don't belong anywhere in the security field. For a person who professes to having earned a Masters degree and working on a PHD to be working as a TSO strikes me as being very strange.
July 30, 2008 8:48 PM
Wintermute wrote:
Comments are not approved in order. I've thought some of mine have been gobbled, just to appear later. Of course, by the time they've been approved, they've been buried under more recent comments that were already approved.
I see a couple others I put up, but, nah, at least one of those that I wrote about when I put up the OMGMEANSMILEYFACE guy was, in fact, eaten mercilessly and savagely by the Delete-o-Meter.
I mourn for it's passing. :(
July 30, 2008 9:01 PM
“Anonymous said... I seriously doubt that you will be my boss tomorrow or any other day. You strike me as being a petty, vindictive individual on a power trip. You might consider quiting before being fired. You don't belong anywhere in the security field. For a person who professes to having earned a Masters degree and working on a PHD to be working as a TSO strikes me as being very strange.”
Where do I begin… It sounds like you are one of those people who can never be pleased. I began as a TSO and have earned my promotions. I have 10 of security experience and want to better myself even further with a challenge of the PhD program from Capella University. The question was asked and now answered.
July 30, 2008 11:00 PM
Just an observation!
Anonymous wrote:
You don't belong anywhere in the security field. For a person who professes to having earned a Masters degree and working on a PHD to be working as a TSO strikes me as being very strange.
It's probably more common than you think. One of the guys that works here in Huntsville has two Masters and three or four Bachelors degrees.
And he makes a four-hour commute to get to work. :/
July 31, 2008 8:29 AM
"Hey, Trollkiller, can you start a survey for TSA screeners? I want to see a show of hands of those screeners who truly and unequivocally believe that the job they are doing is keeping the skies safe from terrorists.
I'd also like them to indicate their highest level of education, i.e., high school grad, GED, some college, college grad.
As you can perhaps tell, I am having a difficult time dealing with some of the drivel posted here by people who allegedly work for the TSA."
I believe that my job as a TSO is aiding in the security and safety of our skies. Do I believe we can protect them 100%? No. I don't believe that anything can be protected 10% of the time. that is unrealistic. But I will try my hardest to do my job right, and to do all that I possibly can.
I am a high school graduate with some college. I stopped for a bit after I got married and had my first child, but I plan on returning shortly.
July 31, 2008 9:52 AM
I haven't seen a lot of TSO's complaining that we don't make enough money. Most people think they are underpaid no matter what their job btw. I have seen a lot of insults hurled towards us as being minimum wage security guards and similar slams. Depending on the part of the country you live in our pay is pretty good, or not.
The work force has very professional staff and some not so professional. But as the master's degreed TSO post shows college education doesn't necessarily mean skills at customer service and dealing with the public. I'm college educated as well but that doesn't make me better at my job to be honest.
I agree that a smile doesn't always make the passengers polite or even nice but often it does. I'm not sure why TSO's argue about this one because it's a no brainer. I don't apologize for my job which sometimes does inconvenience passengers but I do thank them for their patience with the procedures.
MSO TSO
July 31, 2008 11:15 AM
"I believe that my job as a TSO is aiding in the security and safety of our skies. Do I believe we can protect them 100%? No. I don't believe that anything can be protected 10% of the time. that is unrealistic. But I will try my hardest to do my job right, and to do all that I possibly can.
I am a high school graduate with some college. I stopped for a bit after I got married and had my first child, but I plan on returning shortly."
Whoops... I meant to say 100%, not 10%. sorry about that.
July 31, 2008 3:30 PM
From CNN:
WASHINGTON (CNN) — A Minnesota official fired for unprofessional conduct in the aftermath of last year’s Interstate 35-West bridge collapse is now working in an $89,000-a-year job for the U.S. Transportation Security Administration, the agency confirmed Thursday.
Sonia Pitt was fired in a swirl of controversy last fall after Minneapolis media outlets disclosed that Pitt, a top official with the state’s Department of Transportation, failed to return to Minnesota immediately after the tragedy, and instead finished a conference in Cambridge, Massachusetts, and made an unauthorized trip to Washington.
State officials called Pitt’s conduct unprofessional, saying that she was expected to respond to transportation emergencies. And in a subsequent investigation, state auditors said Pitt had misspent $11,500 of state money, and had charged the state for more than $14,500 of work time that should have been recorded as personal leave.
Good thing they hire only the best, eh?
July 31, 2008 5:39 PM
I would like to add to the discussion about pay, performance and the general question of the need for TSA and its employees.
I and I suspect that most people recognize a need for you folks.
With that said it seems that your leaders are taking you off track for what your mission is. I mean OFF TRACK!
The mission and law as has been researched and stated by Trollkiller is pretty clear. Weapons, incedaries, and explosives.
The ID crap, personal questions and other things like that are out of line and takes away from your mission. A person with a false ID is no threat to an aircraft if they have no weapons. I'm no fan of drugs, but in small amounts they do not compromise the safe conduct of a flight. Larger amounts are no more dangerous to the aircraft but I can see an effort to stop those carry larger amounts, although it does take you away from our base mission. Currency, not your business why I have $15,000 on me, and does not threaten the aircraft or its passengers.
AS far as pay goes, your starting salaries are not all that great yet name one job that is great from day one in regards to compensation. Your benefits are better than most in the private sector so be thankful.
Education to be a TSO is GED and up. So if you want to use your masters to do the job then don't complain. No one made you take a job with TSA and if you find the money to be to little or the duties to be to challenging then you really should move on for your own personal health.
Some of you think that we all hate you. Did you ever stop to think that we developed those kind of opinions over a period of time? Could you guys be doing things that cause travelers to wonder just what is going on? Reversing the perception of the public is a harder job than creating a favorable opinion from day one. Sadly it didn't go down that way so your job is made even harder to change the publics opinion.
The way I see it is that the ball is in your court. I'm afraid that it will take some changes towards the top of the food chain but you guys in the trenches have a hugh impact on daily ops. Mis-treat people and the hostility will grow.
My 2 cents, hope someone takes something of value away.
July 31, 2008 10:49 PM
Anonymous said...
From CNN:
WASHINGTON (CNN) — A Minnesota official fired for unprofessional conduct in the aftermath of last year’s Interstate 35-West bridge collapse is now working in an $89,000-a-year job for the U.S. Transportation Security Administration, the agency confirmed Thursday.
Sonia Pitt was fired in a swirl of controversy last fall after Minneapolis media outlets disclosed that Pitt, a top official with the state’s Department of Transportation, failed to return to Minnesota immediately after the tragedy, and instead finished a conference in Cambridge, Massachusetts, and made an unauthorized trip to Washington.
State officials called Pitt’s conduct unprofessional, saying that she was expected to respond to transportation emergencies. And in a subsequent investigation, state auditors said Pitt had misspent $11,500 of state money, and had charged the state for more than $14,500 of work time that should have been recorded as personal leave.
Good thing they hire only the best, eh?
In a daring show of dangerous speed the TSA has already fired this woman. I hope this woman was not in charge of gathering the answers to our top ten questions.
Fired Minn. official fired from new federal job
A federal official says a Minnesota emergency manager who was fired after taking an unauthorized out-of-state trip in the aftermath of last year's bridge collapse has been fired again from her new job with the federal Transportation Safety Administration.
TSA spokeswoman Ellen Howe says 44-year-old Sonia Pitt was fired Thursday after an internal investigation.
Pitt worked for the TSA for about two months.
Pitt was fired in November from her job as director of homeland security for the Minnesota Department of Transportation for travel improprieties and misuse of state resources. She had taken an unauthorized, state-paid trip to Washington, D.C., during the Interstate 35W bridge collapse and didn't return to Minnesota for nearly two weeks.
By my figures the TSA pissed away about $14,800 for failing to do a standard employment reference check. Thanks for canning her before anymore money went down the drain or worse.
July 31, 2008 11:20 PM
Phil, an adaptive terrorist is someone with ill intent that has learned the procedures of security around their proposed target. It applies to ANY situation requiring security. The others are outside my paygrade. I will post that the things from the TV station in Chicago are deplorable - IF they happened the way the press are implying. The only pictures I saw were of the LEO's working with an out of control passenger. IF things happened the way they have been related by the media, it is terrible and the person(s) responsible should be disciplined or terminated. There is no reason for someone to power trip out in any way shape or form, we are here to do a job, do it with professional manners and ethics. I understand that some people have different ideas of professional conduct, but the basics are the same : Greet the people as they come in, explain what is going on, do what the SOP says, finish the screening, send the person to their gate. There are various interpretations on how to greet or be professional, but no one should be unkind or mean (firm and resolute when the situation calls for it, but NEVER mean).
August 1, 2008 5:35 PM
Here the TSA says:
"Medications must be labeled so they are identifiable",
while here TSA says:
"We recommend, but do not require, that your medications be labeled to assist with the screening process."
Certainly, the TSA site is filled with links and articles, but
how are travellers supposed to make sense of these "rules" if they are not consistent with themselves? Let alone with what some TSOs interpret them as?
July 29, 2008 1:14 PM
Thanks. I got with Lynn & Glen and both links now jive with the same and correct info.
"We recommend, but do not require, that your medications be labeled to assist with the screening process."
Bob
EoS Blog Team
August 1, 2008 9:55 PM
Bob, while I applaud your effort to clarify this rule, I think you've missed the point. This is almost certainly not the only example of conflicting information about TSA rules out there, and we're not allowed to travel when we don't follow your organization's rules. You (TSA) are restricting our right to travel and associate based on these rules -- something that should not be taken lightly -- but you are doing so in an extremely careless manner. In this case, if someone arrived at the checkpoint and was confronted by a security guard who attempted to enforce the version of the rule that you just corrected, the traveler's choice would be either to not travel or to leave his medication behind. How would someone know which rule -- both published by the TSA -- is the accurate one?
Better yet, where has TSA published a list of all the rules and regulations that TSA will subject someone to if that person wishes to cross a U.S. Government checkpoint at an airport en route to the gate from which his domestic flight will depart? Please provide a URL or name of the government publication.
Surely there's a simple answer to this. We require every air traveler to follow certain rules in addition to normal law that people are required to abide by at all times. Where have we published those rules so that travelers can make themselves familiar with them in order to comply?
(BTW, you meant jibe, not jive. To jibe is to agree or harmonize. Jive, of course, is a type of turkey.)
August 1, 2008 10:29 PM
GSOLTSO wrote:
"Phil, an adaptive terrorist is someone with ill intent that has learned the procedures of security around their proposed target."
You're saying that if someone has ill intent and has familiarized himself with the security procedures related to the target of his ill intent, he is a terrorist? That's a pretty broad description.
Would the desire to have a federal agency shut down be considered ill intent? Does that make everyone who feels the TSA is an unncessary waste of tax dollars and is familiar with their security procedures a terrorist?
Let's try again. What, in the context of Kip Hawley's statement, is an "adaptive terrorist"? (Meaning, how does one differ from a standard, garden variety, terrorist?)
Bonus question: What is a terrorist? Really -- how do you define terrorist? The word has very little meaning anymore except to represent this shadowy thing that our government spreads fear of to keep us under control.
Quoting John Gilmore's "Gilmore v. Ashcroft -- FAA ID challenge FAQ":
Q. So then how should we figure out who is a terrorist?
It's a good question, that goes to the heart of the post-9/11 civil liberties issues.
Who is a terrorist? Any IRA member from the last twenty years? A member of the Irgun (led by former Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin)? Nelson Mandela, imprisoned for sabotage for 27 years by the South African government? A WTO protester? The US Government killed more Afghani civilians in the last year than the number of US people killed on 9/11; does that make US soldiers terrorists? Israel and Palestine both claim that the other is terrorist. So do India and Pakistan. So do leftists and rightists in Colombia.
Ultimately the line between "terrorist" and "freedom fighter" is a political one. Our freedom to travel should not depend on a politician's decision about whether they agree with our aims or not. Every "anti-terrorist" measure restricts people based on their politics, not just based on whether they use violence. Violence was already illegal.
In other words, any list of "terrorists" will inevitably contain many individuals that have never committed a terrorist act, and not contain many individuals that have actually committed a terrorist act.
August 1, 2008 10:42 PM
This is actually something I wrote awhile back, but seem to have forgotten to post it. Found it in my e-mail when I was clearing out some old junk stuff. Ah, well. I'll go ahead and just stick it up here near the end of the thread list, because I spent a lot of time on it and don't want it to go to waste.
___________
___________
And here I go, losing friends again. Let me just go ahead and preface this by making a statement, since I'm sure that the declaration of "Dean, you should be ashamed of yourself!" will come about - I'm not.
Now that we got that out of the way, let's go on with what we've all already heard before.
Now...
Aside from the obviously curt way that it's sometimes stated (i.e.; "Grayhound goes where you go" or "If you don't like it, then drive."), the point still stands.
In 435 F.3d 1125, more commonly known as Gilmore v. Gonzalez, and also as mentioned in Miller v. Reed, the Judiciary confirmed that.. well. Here's the text, with my own boldness put in for emphasis:
_____
Article III: Right to Travel
32
Gilmore alleges that the identification policy violates his constitutional right to travel because he cannot travel by commercial airlines without presenting identification, which is an impermissible federal condition. We reject Gilmore's right to travel argument because the Constitution does not guarantee the right to travel by any particular form of transportation.
33
Because Gilmore lacks standing to challenge anything but the identification policy's impact on air travel, his sole argument is that "air travel is a necessity and not replaceable by other forms of transportation." Although we do not question this allegation for purposes of this petition, it does not follow that Defendants violated his right to travel, given that other forms of travel remain possible.
Article V: Right To Associate and Right To Petition the Government
51
Further, Gilmore did not allege that he was exercising his right to freely associate in the airport, but rather that he was attempting to fly to Washington, D.C. so that he could exercise his right to associate there. The enforcement of the identification policy did not prevent him from associating anonymously in Washington, D.C. because he could have abided by the policy, or taken a different mode of transport. Although the policy did inconvenience Gilmore, this inconvenience did not rise to the level of a constitutional violation. In the end, Gilmore's free association claim fails because there was no direct and substantial action impairing this right.
_____
Now, as many of you have noted, including Mr. Tomas and others, one could hardly consider a cross-country trip taken over the course of several days, with maintenance cost on vehicles and the price of gasoline, to be a viable alternative. Common sensical though that may be, the Judiciary doesn't see a problem with it at all. In as far as they're concerned, you can charter a boat to travel to Hawaii and spend a few weeks in transit.
Some people would say that a choice that isn't a choice, isn't a choice. Unfortunately, there's no real legal basis for that, in how it pertains to the airport system. For example, when you're given the option (or, at least, when you're supposed to be given the option) of returning to the ticket counter to place a prohibited item in your checked-in bag, most people would find that option to be somewhat unappealing given that it would require them to stand in line again twice (ticket counter, and then at the checkpoint once more), and possibly miss their flight. The fact remains, though, that it's still your option to do so.
Also, at the risk of stating the obvious, Gilmore v. Gonzalez upheld a great many facets, not only the option of undergoing additional screening in lieu of showing identification. In address to that particular facet of the system, though, all it would take to be tested is for Mr. Gilmore to file another lawsuit, and we'll see where it goes.
To be bluntly honest, I'm surprised it hasn't happened already, but I'm assuming there are people out there ensuring that ducks are all in their pretty little rows.
August 2, 2008 12:21 PM
Appreciate the post, Dean, it does bring out that the decision was milti-faceted in that they said Gilmore had a choice to not show ID and still be screened to fly, so that made asking for ID a "no foul" situation, but also that the supreme court doesn't feel that traveling point to point in order to be at the farther one by a specific date counts.
When I was working in Bell Labs in Holmdel, NJ, a case against my home metro transit system came to trial: I was subpoenaed as a witness for the defense, and flew back to Seattle to appear. The trial would have been over had I tried to drive... Sometimes flying is the only viable method of transport.
I'm sure that even the Supremes would be upset with a lawyer, for example, who was based (as in "lived and practiced in") in Hawai'i needing to appear in front of the SCOTUS, and trying to re-schedule the case so he could take a boat from Hawai'i, and drive from the West Coast to DC. I seriously doubt that they would be magnanimous enough to allow that, and they would just proceed without him.
Most businesses are the same. Be here by such and such date or find a new job.
For a short time I had a job that took me flying all over the country on a fairly regular basis. Had I not been able to meet the schedule and held up publication because I was forced to walk, drive or take the bus cross country, I would NOT have kept that job.
Saying that flying is not the only form of transport is true, implying that there is any other PRACTICAL form of transportation for a vast number of needs is bovine excrement of the finest sort...
August 2, 2008 9:15 PM
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