Return-Path: <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> Received: from literacy (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by literacy.nifl.gov (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id g0MMaZn16850; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 17:36:35 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 17:36:35 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <103576@tommy.demon.co.uk> Errors-To: listowner@literacy.nifl.gov Reply-To: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Originator: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Sender: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Precedence: bulk From: jn@tommy.demon.co.uk (John Nissen) To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> Subject: [NIFL-ESL:6989] Re: Phonotactics X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Mailer: PCElm 1.11 Status: O Content-Length: 2370 Lines: 59 Hello Sylvan, In message <5.1.0.14.0.20020122122942.00a02ae0@mail.aracnet.com> nifl-esl@nifl.gov writes: >At 12:41 PM 01/20/2002 -0500, you wrote: >>I'm interested in this phonological model where the [s] counts >>as its own syllable. This would correspond to a French origin, >>where the e acute is changed to an s, as in E'cole changing to >>School, or the dropping of e, as in esquire changing to squire. >>Presumably the [s] is treated as a kind of vowel, though it would >>often be unvoiced. > >In Spanish also, I guess, since you never have that combination "sp" "sk" >or "st" without the "e" in front, as in escuela, estomago, etc. But which >came first, which changes to which? > > >>For the circumflex we sometimes added an s, as in co^te changing >>to coast. Would that also count as a syllable in this model? >> >><SNIP> >Similarly, I always thought the circumflex was a symbol for the s having >been *left out* of a word, as in hostel becoming hotel, or festival >changing to fete. Certainly in English, the word containing the s is the >older word, and the one without the s (originally indicated with the >circumflex) came in later from the French. That probably buries my argument! There was a Reith lecture recently about the English language and how it was evolving - a good thing, she said. The tendency is to simplify, and to drop final consonants. She gave an example of the latter: "street" becoming "stree", as in "stree corner". Most English people would put a glottal for that 't', but it is scarcely audible except as a slight modification of the ending to the 'ee' sound. I've also noted that Italians speaking English, often add a schwa vowel after a final consonant, even an 's', so you have the makings of a new syllable! Against that, the olde English had 'dogge' which became 'dog', presumably dropping a syllable. But I'm attracted to the idea that we could simplify the phonological model of English by getting rid of triple consonants in syllables. And I'm intrigued by the idea of teaching English to Japanese with all syllables ending in vowels, however short. Cheers, John -- Access the word, access the world! -- Try our WordAloud software!! John Nissen, Cloudworld Ltd., Chiswick, London Tel: +44 (0) 845 458 3944 (local rate in the UK) Fax: +44 (0) 20 8742 8715 Web: http://www.cloudworld.co.uk
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