PROCESS UNDER THE MINERAL LEASING ABSENT. IN COMPARISON IF YOU
           ARE GOING TO DO HARD ROCK MINING, AS IN THIS BILL, IT IS SELF
           INITIATION AND LOCATION UNDER THE MINING LAW OF 1872, THERE IS
           NO B.L.M. APPROVAL THAT IS REQUIRED.
           

           MR. DURBIN: THE SECOND POINT I WOULD LIKE TO ASK THE SENATOR
           FROM WASHINGTON BA ABOUT. WHAT A GAVE AWAY THIS IS. $2.50 AN
           ACRE AND THEY CAN MINE MILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF MINERALS AND THE
           AMAZING THING IS NOT PAY THE TAXPAYERS OF THIS COUNTRY ANY
           PERCENTAGE FOR WHAT THEY BRING OUT. I WOULD LIKE TO ASK THE
           SENATOR FROM WASHINGTON TO COMPARE THE MINING OF COAL ON
           FEDERAL LANDS WHEN IT COMES TO ROYALTIES TO THE MINING UNDER
           THE HARD ROCK PROVISIONS.
           

           MRS. MURRAY: WELL THE SENATOR FROM ILLINOIS IS CORRECT. COAL
           MINE VERSE TO PAY 8% FOR UNDERGROUND MINING AND 12.5% NOR
           SURFACE MINING, WHERE HARD ROCK PAYS NONE. NOW I WOULD THINK
           THE SENATORS FROM STATES WHO ARE COAL MINERS WHO ARE PAYING 8%,
           WOULD BE RUSHING TO THIS FLOOR AND SAYING WHERE IS THE FAIRNESS
           HERE WHERE CAN YOU MINE HARD ROCK, FOR GOLD, AND PAY NOT ONE
           DIME BACK TO THE TAXPAYERS FOR THE USE OF THAT PUBLIC LAND. AND
           FOR WHAT YOU EXTRACTED FROM THAT LAND. BUT COAL, 12.5%.
           

           MR. DURBIN: THE SENATOR FROM WASHINGTON AWARE OF THE FACT THAT
           IN 1995 A DANISH MINING COMPANY, NOT AN AMERICAN COMPANY,
           SUCCESSFULLY PATENTED PUBLIC LANDS IN IDAHO, CONTAINING OVER $1
           BILLION WORTH OF MIB RALS AND PAID THE FEDERAL TAXPAYERS $275?
           
           

           MRS. MURRAY: I WOULD SAY TO THE SENATOR FROM ILLINOIS, THERE IS
           A LOT OF TAXPAYERS OUT THERE THAT WOULD LIKE TO EARN A MILLION
           DOLLARS AND ONLY PAY HOW MUCH?
           
           

           MR. DURBIN: $275. IS THE SENATOR AWARE AS WELL THAT SINCE 1872,
           THERE HAS BEEN MORE THAN $240 BILLION WORTH OF TAXPAYERS
           SUBSIDIES TO THIS MINING INDUSTRY?
           
           

           MRS. MURRAY: I WAS NOT AWARE OF THE FIGURE. $240 BILLION TAX
           SUBSIDIES DOESN'T SURPRISE ME. WE ARE JUST SAYING IF WE ARE
           GOING TO GIVE YOU ANOTHER GIVE AWAY, WHICH THIS BILL DOES, WHAT
           ARE YOU GOING TO GIVE US BACK. IN THIS BILL, NOTHING. THEY GIVE
           NOTHING BACK.
           

           MR. DURBIN: IS IT MY UNDERSTANDING, I WOULD ASK THE SENATOR
           FROM WASHINGTON, IF YOU WERE GOING TO MINE COAL ON PUBLIC
           LANDS, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A DETAILED PERMITTING AND RECLAMATION
           STANDARD FILED WHICH SAYS YOU ARE GOING TO CLEAN UP YOUR OWN
           MESS, BUT WHEN IT COMES TO HARD ROCK MINING YOU CAN LITERALLY
           LEAVE YOUR MESS BEHIND WITH WHAT APPEARS TO BE A VERY WEAK
           STANDARD?
           
           

           MRS. MURRAY: THE STANDARD IS HERE. YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.
           IF YOU ARE GOING TO GO IN AND DIG COAL, YOU NEED DETAILED
           PERMITTING AND RECLAMATION STANDARDS IF YOU MINE COMB. IF YOU
           MINE HARD ROCK, WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT IN THIS BILL, YOU
           HAVE TO SHOW REASONABLE MEASURES TO PREVENT UNNECESSARY OR
           UNDUE DEGRADATION OF THE PUBLIC LANDS. VERY MINIMAL.
           

           MR. DURBIN: I WOULD SAY TO THE SENATOR FROM WASHINGTON, I AM
           HAPPY TO JOIN HER IN THIS
           
           EFFORT: THIS DEBATE WILL CONTINUE, AND I AM HAPPY TO SAY THAT
           WHEN SHE HAS COMPLETED HER STATEMENT ON THE SUBJECT, I HAVE
           SOME OTHER THINGS I WOULD LIKE TO ADD TO IT. BUT I SEE THE
           SENATOR FROM CALIFORNIA ON HER FEET I BELIEVE TO ASK ANOTHER
           QUESTION.
           

           MRS. BOXER: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I WOULD ASK, MR. PRESIDENT, IF
           THE SENATOR FROM WASHINGTON WOULD YIELD FOR A FEW YES, SIR.
           

           MRS. MURRAY: I WOULD BE HAPPY TO YIELD FOR A QUESTION.
           

           MRS. BOXER: FIRST I APPRECIATE THE LEADERSHIP THE SENATOR FROM
           WASHINGTON AND THE SENATOR FROM ILLINOIS ON THE APPROPRIATIONS
           COMMITTEE FIGHTING THIS ANTI-ENVIRONMENT AL RIDER ALL THE WAY
           FROM THE DAY THEY HEARD ABOUT IT. AND I AM JUST PLEASED TO BE
           HERE IN A SUPPORTIVE ROLE. THE REASON I CAME TO THE FLOOR IS
           BECAUSE THE SENATOR FROM WASHINGTON HAS SPOKEN IN DEPTH ABOUT A
           PARTICULAR MINE IN HER STATE AND I WANTED TO ASK HER QUESTIONS
           ABOUT A MINE IN MY STAIRT, NOT THAT I EXPECT HER TO BE AWARE OF

           ALL THIS, BUT JUST TO SEE IF SHE AGREES WITH SOME OF MY
           CONCLUSIONS ON THIS. FIRST I WANT TO UNDERSCORE THROUGH SOME
           QUESTIONS WHAT THE SENATOR FROM ILLINOIS ASKED YOU, AND THAT
           IS, I SAY TO THE SENATOR FROM WASHINGTON, I HAVE LEARNED BY
           LISTENING TO THIS DEBATE THAT IF ONE MINES FOR COAL, THERE IS
           IN FACT A ROYALTY PAYMENT DUE THE FEDERAL TAXPAYERS IS THAT
           CORRECT?
           
           

           MRS. MURRAY: THE SENATOR FROM CALIFORNIA IS CORRECT. IF YOU ARE
           MINING FOR COAL, YOU HAVE TO PAY 8% FOR UNDERGROUND MINING,
           12.5% NOR SURFACE MINING. THAT IS THE ROYALTY YOU PAY BACK TO
           TAXPAYERS FOR USE OF THEIR LAND.
           

           MRS. BOXER: IT IS LIKE A RENT PAYMENT, IS IT NOT, WHERE YOU GO
           ON TO FEDERAL LAND AND FOR THAT PRIVILEGE YOU PAY A PERCENTAGE
           OF THE VALUE OF THE COAL THAT IS MINED AND EXTRACTED FROM THAT
           LAND IS THAT CORRECT?
           
           

           MRS. MURRAY: THE SENATOR IS CORRECT. IF THE SENATOR FROM
           CALIFORNIA HAD A MINE, WANTED TO GO AND DIG COAL OUT OF IT, ON
           PUBLIC LAND, SHE WOULD HAVE TO PAY THE PUBLIC BACK SOMETHING
           FOR THAT COMB. IT IS OURS AFTER ALL. BUT IF YOU ARE GOING TO
           DIG FOR COAL, HARD ROCK MIKE, YOU COULDN'T HAVE TO GIVE US
           ANYTHING BACK.
           

           MRS. BOXER: IS THE SENATOR AWARE AND I KNOW SHE IS BECAUSE SHE
           IS WORKING WITH ME ON THIS ISSUE TO, THAT IF AN OIL COMPANY
           FINDS OIL ON PUBLIC LAND SHE MUST PAY A ROYALTY TOO.
           

           MRS. MURRAY: YO, IF YOU EXTRACT OIL, YOU PAY A ROYALTY. YOU PAY
           US, THE PUBLIC WHO OWNS THE LAND, SOMETHING BACK.
           

           MRS. BOXER: AS A MATTER OF FACT, THE SENATOR KNOWS BECAUSE SHE
           IS HELPING ME ON THIS AS THE SENATOR FROM ILLINOIS, THAT WE
           HAVE SOME PROBLEMS WITH SOME OF THE LARGE OIL COMPANIES. WE
           DON'T BELIEVE THEY ARE PAYING THEIR FAIR SHARE OF OIL ROYALTIES
           BUT AT LEAST THEY ARE PAYING ROYALTIES.
           

           MRS. BOXER: THAT'S CORRECT CALIFORNIA IS CORRECT. SHE MAY NOT
           AGREE THEY ARE PAYING ENOUGH BUT THEY ARE PAYING SOMETHING.
           UNDER THE CURRENT MINING LAWS IN THIS COUNTRY, HARD ROCK MINING
           PAYS NOTHING BACK TO THE TAXPAYERS.
           

           MRS. BOXER: NOW, ISN'T IT FURTHER TO BE THE CASE THAT THE
           SENATOR FROM WASHINGTON IS NOT SUGGESTING THAT THERE BE ANY
           ROYAL TIP PAYMENT?
           
           

           MRS. MURRAY: I AM ONLY SUGGESTING I SAY TO MY COLLEAGUE FROM
           CALIFORNIA, THAT IF WE IN THIS BILL ARE GOING TO GIVE THEM USE
           OF OUR PUBLIC LANDS, FAR IN ADDITION TO WHAT THEY HAVE HAD
           BEFORE, THAT IT THEY GIVE US SOMETHING BACK. MAYBE WE SHOULD
           NEGOTIATE THAT IN TERMS OF ROIFL TIS, MAYBE IT SHOULD BE IN A
           HIGHER PERCENTAGE OF PAY THEY PAY US, MAYBE IT SHOULD BE IN THE
           REQUIREMENTS THAT THEY CLEANUP THE LAND THEY HAVE LEFT BEHIND.
           BUT CERTAINLY WE SHOULD GET SOMETHING BACK FOR OUR PUBLIC
           LANDS, RATHER THAN WHAT WE HAVE DONE IN THIS BILL IS WHICH IS

           TO JUST GIVE THEM MORE OF OUR LAND.
           

           MRS. BOXER: AND RIGHT NOW, WHAT THESE HARD ROCK MINERS WANT TO
           DO IS IGNORE THE 1872 MINING LAW. AND ISN'T IT A FACT THAT?
           THIS BILL WE AGREE WITH THOSE MINING COMPANIES THAT THEY CAN
           USE AS MUCH LAND AS THEY MAY CHOOSE FOR THE WASTE THAT COMES
           OUT OF THESE MINES IS THAT NOT THE ISSUE HERE?
           
           

           MRS. MURRAY: I SAY TO MY COLLEAGUE FROM CALIFORNIA HERE THAT
           WHAT HAS OCCURRED HERE IS THAT THE TECHNOLOGY FOR TAKING ROCK
           OUT-OF-NETWORK AND GETTING JUST A LITTLE BIT OF GOLD HAS
           CHANGED DRAMATICALLY. SO THE MINING COMPANIES WHO USED TO GET
           BY ON FIVE ACRES CONTRIBUTION NO LONGER GET BY ON FIVE ACRES.
           THEY WANT A LOT MORE. INSTEAD OF COMING AND NEGOTIATING WITH
           CONGRESS TO PAY SOMETHING BACK FOR ADDITIONAL SHARES, THEY ARE
           JUST SAYING NO. IN THIS RIDER, IN THIS PROVISION, IN THIS BILL,
           WE HAVE JUST GIVEN IT AWAY TO THEM FOR NOTHING ELSE.
           

           MRS. BOXER: I WANT TO ASK MY FRIEND IF SHE THINKS, BECAUSE SHE
           IS THE EXPERT ON THIS, THAT THIS DESCRIPTION THAT I GIVE IS A
           GOOD DESCRIPTION OF WHY THEY STEAM TO NEED SO MUCH MORE LAND
           FOR THEIR WASTE. THAT IS BECAUSE AT THE CYANIDE HEAP LEACH
           MINES, PITS ARE DOG HUNDREDS OF FEET. OTHER FROM THE PITS IS
           PILED SELF E. SEVERAL FEET HIGH OVER AN AREA OF SEVERAL
           FOOTBALL FIELDS AND CYANIDE IS SPRINKLED OVER THE TOPS OF
           PILES. THE CYANIDE, WHICH IS POISON, TRICKLES DOWN THROUGH THE

           OTHER, CHEMICALLY COMBINES WITH THE OTHER IN THE AND COLLECTS
           AND POOLS TEN BASE OF THE PILES. AND THEN THE GOLD IS STRIPPED
           FROM THE CYANIDE SOLUTION BUT THE CYANIDE SOLUTION IS LEFT ON
           THE SITE AND THAT IS WHAT IS SO CONTENTIOUS THAT WE HAVE
           POISONED -- MOIST ON BEING DUMPED ON BEAUTIFUL FEDERAL LANDS,
           AND IN THIS BILL WE SAY AYE MEN. CONTINUE TO DO IT, AND MY
           FRIEND FROM WASHINGTON IS TRYING TO SAY, NO TO THAT

           ENVIRONMENTAL DEGRADATION. DOES THAT EXPLAIN IT.
           

           MRS. MURRAY: THE SENATOR FROM CALIFORNIA GIVES AN ACCURATE
           DESCRIPTION. WE SAY YES, WE NEED GOLD, THERE ARE ALL REASONS TO
           HAVE GOLD, BUT IF THE MINING COMPANIES ARE GOING TO EXTRACT
           THAT ROCK AND USE IT AND CYANIDE LEACH, THEREFORE NEED MORE
           ACREAGE FOR THEIR DUMPED ROCK THAT HAS CYANIDE ON IT, THEY HAD
           SHOULD PAY US SOMETHING BACK.
           

           MRS. BOXER: I HAVE A LAST QUESTION FOR MY FRIEND. AGAIN I DON'T
           EXPECT HER TO KNOW ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR PROPOSAL, BUT I WANT
           TO MAKE HER AWARE AND HOPEFULLY SHE COULD RESPOND TO THIS. IN
           SOUTHEASTERN IMPERIAL COUNTY, CALIFORNIA, A CANADIAN MINING
           COME CALLED GLAMUS GOLD PROPOSES TO BUILD A MASSIVE 7 701 ACRE
           OPEN PIT CYANIDE LEACH HEAP MINE THE KIND I HAVE JUST DESCRIBED
           IN MY QUESTION TO THE SENATOR FROM WASHINGTON. I WANT HER TO

           KNOW HOW MUCH THE PEOPLE OF CALIFORNIA WHO TREASURE THEIR
           ENVIRONMENT, PARTICULARLY IN THESE AREAS WHERE WE HAVE NATIVE
           AMERICANS WHO HAVE VERY SERIOUS TRIBAL CONCERNS OVER THIS AREA,
           I WANT HER TO KNOW THAT WHEN SHE FIGHTS FOR THE ENVIRONMENT IN
           THIS WAY, I HOPE SHE KNOWS IT ISN'T JUST FOR HER PRECIOUS STATE
           THAT SHE REPRESENTS TO WELL, BUT IT IS FOR MANY OTHER STATES
           INCLUDING CALIFORNIA AND MY QUESTION IS, IS MY FRIEND AWARE AT
           THE REACH AND BREADTH OF THE FIGHT SHE IS WAGING.
           

           MRS. MURRAY: I APPRECIATE THE COMMENTS OF THE SENATOR FROM
           CALIFORNIA. THERE ARE MINES IN HER STATE AS WELL AS MANY OTHER
           STATES THAT THIS AMENDMENT WILL SIMPLY ALLOW ACRES AND ABEERS
           OF MILL SITE TO BE DUMPED WITH NOTHING BACK TO THE TAXPAYERS. I
           HOPE THAT MY COLLEAGUES WILL SUPPORT ME WHEN I OFFER THE
           AMENDMENT TO STRIKE THE LANGUAGE IN THE BILL AND FOR US AS A
           CONGRESS TO DO WHAT WE SHOULD HAVE DONE SO LONG AGO WHICH IS TO
           GO BACK AND LOOK AT THE 1872 MINING LAW AND IF THE MINING

           COMPANIES DO INDEED NEED MORE DUMP SITE, SAY WHAT DO WE GET IN
           RETURN?
           WE SHOULD HAVE A FAIR DEBATE ON THE MINING LAW. IT SHOULD NOT
           JUST BE, IN THIS BILL, IN THIS INTERIOR BILL WHICH COMES TO US
           WHETHER WE NEED TO PASS A TAX BILL, WE NEED TO START ON THAT,
           EVERYBODY WANTS TO FINISH
           
           TONIGHT, IT IS 5:30 P.M., FORCING A BILL TO PASS THAT IS HAS
           HUGE GIVE AWAY. LET'S GET SOMETHING BACK. LET'S MAKE SURE WE
           HAVE RESPONSIBLE MINING REFORM AND LET'S MAKE SURE WE DO IT
           RIGHT FOR THE TAXPAYERS WHO DESERVE A LOT BETTER. I APPRECIATE

           THE QUESTION FROM THE SENATOR FROM CALIFORNIA. I WILL BE
           OFFERING MY AMENDMENT IN JUST A SHORT WHILE AND AGAIN I URGE MY
           COLLEAGUES TO SUPPORT THIS AMENDMENT ON BEHALF OF THE
           ENVIRONMENT, ON BEHALF OF THE TAXPAYERS, ON BEHALF OF WHAT IS
           RIGHT AND FAIR FOR PEOPLE WHO PAY THEIR TAXES EVERY DAY, FOR
           OTHER INDUSTRIES WHO PAY THEIR ROYALTIES, WHO PAY A FAIR SHARE,
           AND LET'S DO THE MINING REFORM LAW CORRECT. I THANK MY
           COLLEAGUES, AND I KNOW THE SENATOR FROM ILLINOIS HOPES TO
           DISCUSS THIS. I SEE THE SENATOR FROM NEVADA AS WELL. MR.
           DURBIN: MR. PRESIDENT?

           THE PRESIDING OFFICER: THE SENATOR FROM WASHINGTON. MR. GORTON: MR. PRESIDENT?
           IF -- AT THIS POINT, MR. PRESIDENT, I SEND AN AMENDMENT TO THE
           DESK AND ASK FOR ITS IMMEDIATE CONSIDERATION.
           

           THE PRESIDING OFFICER: THE CLERK WILL REPORT THE AMENDMENT.
           

           THE CLERK: THE SENATOR FROM WASHINGTON, MR. GORTON, PROPOSES AN

           AMENDMENT NUMBERED 1359. MR. GORTON: MR. PRESIDENT?
           I ASK UNANIMOUS CONSENT THAT FURTHER READING OF THE AMENDMENT
           BE DISPENSED WITH.
           

           THE PRESIDING OFFICER: WITHOUT OBJECTION. MR. GORTON: MR.
           PRESIDENT?
           THIS IS MERELY A TECHNICAL AMENDMENT AND IS SENT UP SIMPLY SO
           THAT MEMBERS PROPOSING AMENDMENTS ASKED TO HAVE IT SET ASIDE
           AND WE WILL PROCEED IN AN MORE ORDERLY FASHION. I EXPECTED THE
           SENATOR FROM WASHINGTON TO MAKE HER MOTION TO STRIKE IF SHE
           WISHES TO DO SO NOW THERE WILL BE AN AMENDMENT TO THAT AND WE

           CAN COMPLETE THIS DEBATE. IF SHE DOES NOT WISH TO DO SO, THE
           SENATOR FROM NEW HAMPSHIRE IS PREPARED TO OFFER AN AMENDMENT ON
           WHICH THERE COULD BE A VOTE PROBABLY IN AN HOUR OR SO. BUT I
           WOULD ASK DOES THE SENATOR FROM WASHINGTON WISH TO MAKE A
           MOTION TO STRIKE OR SOME OTHER MOTION AT THE PRESENT TIME?

           MRS. MURRAY: MR. PRESIDENT?
           MR. PRESIDENT, I DO INTEND TO OFFER THIS AMENDMENT. MY
           COLLEAGUE FROM ILLINOIS, SENATOR DURBIN, WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK
           FIRST AND THEN I WOULD LIKE TO OFFER IT.
           

           MR. GORTON: THERE WOULD BE PLENTY OF TIME TO SPEAK AFTER THE
           AMENDMENTS ARE BEFORE US. IF MY COLLEAGUE FROM WASHINGTON
           WISHES TO MAKE HAS MOTION TO STRIKE NOW, I WILL YIELD THE FLOOR
           FOR HER TO DO SO. IF SHE TOSS NOT, I SUGGEST WE GO ON TO AN

           AMENDMENT THAT WE CAN DEAL WITH RIGHT AWAY. MRS. MURRAY: MR.
           PRESIDENT?
           
           

           THE PRESIDING OFFICER: THE SENATOR FROM WASHINGTON.
           

           MRS. MURRAY: IF MY COLLEAGUE FROM WASHINGTON STATE WOULD YIELD
           FOR A QUESTION.
           

           MR. GORTON: YES.
           

           MRS. MURRAY: WE WANT TO MAKE SURE ALL MEMBERS ON OUR SIDE THAT
           WISH TO SPEAK TO THIS AMENDMENT CAN DO SO.
           

           MR. GORTON: THEY WILL BE ABLE TO DO SO. THERE IS TO LIMITATION
           ON KBIT ON THE AMENDMENT UNTIL IT IS AGREED TO BY BOTH SIDES.
           

           MRS. MURRAY: WITH THAT UNDERSTANDING, MR. PRESIDENT, I WOULD BE
           HAPPY TO OFFER MY AMENDMENT AT THIS TIME.
           

           MR. GORTON: I YIELD THE FLOOR. MRS. MURRAY: MR. PRESIDENT?
           I SEND MY AMENDMENT TO THE DESK AND ASK FOR ITS IMMEDIATE
           CONSIDERATION.
           

           THE PRESIDING OFFICER: WITHOUT OBJECTION, THE PENDING AMENDMENT
           IS LAID ASIDE. THE CLERK WILL REPORT.
           
           THE CLERK:
           

           THE CLERK: THE SENATOR FROM WASHINGTON, MRS. MURRAY FOR HERSELF
           AND OTHERS PROPOSES AN AMENDMENT NUMBERED 1360. ON PAGE 122 --
           

           MRS. MURRAY: SKI FURTHER READING BE DISPENSED WITH.
           

           THE PRESIDING OFFICER: WITHOUT OBJECTION.
           

           MR. REID: ON BEHALF OF SENATORS REID CRAIG AND BRYAN.
           

           THE PRESIDING OFFICER: THE CLERK WILL REPORT.
           

           THE CLERK: THE SENATOR FROM NEVADA, MR. REID FOR HIMSELF AND
           OTHERS PROPOSES AN AMENDMENT 1361.
           

           MR. REID: I ASK READING BE WAIVED.
           

           THE PRESIDING OFFICER: WITHOUT OBJECTION. MR. REID: MR.
           PRESIDENT?
           
           

           THE PRESIDING OFFICER: THE SENATOR FROM NEVADA.
           

           MR. REID: I WILL BE HAPPY TO SPEAK A SHORT TIME AND YIELD TO MY
           FRIEND FROM ILLINOIS. I SIMPLY WANT TO SAY THIS, I HAVE EVERY
           UNDERSTANDING OF THE CONSTERNATION AND CONCERN OF MY FRIENDS
           FROM WASHINGTON, CALIFORNIA AND ILLINOIS ABOUT THE STATE OF
           MINING IN AMERICA. AND THEY HAVE CONCERNS THAT SHOULD BE RAISED.
{END: 1999/07/27 TIME: 17-30 , Tue.  106TH SENATE, FIRST SESSION}