Shoes
It’s not all about Richard Reid when it comes to the screening of shoes. Post all of your thoughts about shoes in this blog post. To learn more about how the shoe fits in with the TSA, check out our web page on "why we screen shoes". Then come back here and let's talk.
01.31.08, 6:00pm
Christopher says:
Great first question on the ability to pick up foot fungus at the checkpoint and a very common one at that.
Believe it or not, TSA actually commissioned a study in 2003 with the Department of Health and Human Services to look at just that issue. I'm paraphrasing here and will have the actual letter posted tomorrow but they found that if the floor isn't moist then the possibility is, "extremely small to remote" to contract athlete's foot. If there are checkpoint floors that are moist, we generally have bigger issues on our hands than foot fungus.
Also interesting from that study, 15 percent of the public may be affected with athlete's foot at any given time. Think about that next time you're trying on clothes at the mall, looking for a new pair of shoes or going off the high dive at the local pool.
02.01.08, 2:00pm
Christopher says:
Great and lively debate here on shoes. As added fodders, here are two pictures of an altered pair of shoes our officers discovered last year in Alaska.
Yes, we find stuff like this all the time and yes our intel folks tell us terrorists are still interested in using shoes as (improvised explosive devices) IEDs or to hide components.
We've also posted an x-ray image so that you can see exactly what we are talking about.
02.05.08; 9:30am
Christopher says:
There have been several posts asking about the pictures above. Just to be perfectly clear, the first two pictures are of a pair of shoes we discovered during screening in Alaska last year. The wire and other small metal item were positioned under the insole just as they are shown.
The third picture is of an x-ray image of a pair of altered shoes we use to train our officers on x-ray displays in airports. As you can see, it doesn’t take an x-ray tech to tell these shoes have been altered.
Our officers literally see 4 Million shoes per day and they’re very, very good at telling the bad from the good.
posted by Neil at
9:01 AM
Subscribe in a reader
333 Comments:
My concern is germs!!! Not everybody has clean feet. I do not want a foot fungus because some other passenger didn't take care of their feet. It's bad enough to hear about the misfortunes of people from nail salons; we have to worry about the airports too???
January 31, 2008 3:48 PM
I have no problem with you asking us to remove our shoes if it truly will increase our security while flying - and only you can determine that.
However - if you do ask us to remove shoes - then I ask that you do the following:
1) Be consistent - either always ask us to remove shoes or never - not on a case by case basis.
2) Always have a dry, clean, carpeted area for you to walk on after you take your shoes off - nothing is worse than taking your shoes off and ending up with soggy socks after wards.
3) Provide somewhere to sit down to put your shoes back on
4) Don't have agents yelling at you to "move along" while you are trying to get your shoes back on.
The "D" gates at the Central Terminal at LaGuardia are the worst - no carpets - frequently we floors - noplace to sit down afterwards to put on shoes - agents that yell at you to move along while you are trying to get out.
Thanks.
January 31, 2008 3:52 PM
It's not all about Richard Reid? There's nothing in your "explanatory" article except about how good you are at detecting explosives on shoes and improvised explosive devices. Do you guys even read your own promotional material?
January 31, 2008 3:56 PM
So shoes need to be screened. I can do that. But why are the security screening areas not accommodating, for people without shoes? Most people need to lace up, or tie their shoes when putting them back on. Then why is it that no one thought to supply ample seating for people to put their shoes back on?
January 31, 2008 3:57 PM
One problem I see out there as a TSO is that passengers remove there shoes and place them in the bin or on the belt. Problem then becomes they fill them with phones, change, keys and this now defeats the purpose of even having passengers remove their shoes.
January 31, 2008 4:00 PM
After looking at the picture it seems like it would be a lot easier to hide the explosives on your groin or arm pit. Someone could also hide it on many different parts of their bodies if their clothes are baggy enough. Doesn't it seem like many explosives would be too unstable to walk on or touch statically charged surfaces with. I think the shoes would be the last place someone would hide explosives. Also, two barely filled balloons was all they could get in the large high top mens shoes. Often times people will walk around with a hand gun under their clothes a go completely unnoticed. I personally carry alot of stuff in my pockets when I am at the air port and I can access it much more easily than if it was in my shoes.
January 31, 2008 4:01 PM
Why don't you have the same thing at all airports that you have at the Rochester, MN airport where you can place your feet WITH YOUR SHOES ON! on a scanner? Or at least, if cost is an issue, have that available in the "wand" area where often handicapped are made to remove their shoes and it is difficult to put them back on. A lot of people cannot bend over to do this and the screeners don't take the time to really help you put them on correctly/comfortably.
January 31, 2008 4:05 PM
I remember when John Gilbert Graham blew up an airplane with his mother on it back in the '50s. So what was the fallout from this crime? Airports took out the dumb flight insurance machines that provoked John Gilbert Graham's sick plot.
Now, because foreigners blew up four planes in a cult massacre, we spend countless billions of dollars searching every single person that flies. What is wrong with this insane expense?
January 31, 2008 4:09 PM
I notice, and speaking with security, that Airline personnel DO NOT need to remove their shoes, however, us frequent flyers, need to do so. Why the Double standards.
Is TSA now telling us that Terrorists cannot fly planes..... This is kind of Ironic, since it was exactly this issue that sparked off all the security issues.
January 31, 2008 4:15 PM
Of course it's about Richard Reid. Before he tried to set his shoes on fire, I never had my shoes checked. The first time I flew after that, I had my shoes checked at every single checkpoint. Now I wear sandals when flying specifically to avoid that particular hassle.
If someone were to try smuggling explosives onto a plane, there are many far more effective ways to do it than shoes. But shoes got the publicity, so shoes are what get searched.
January 31, 2008 4:17 PM
The comment about germs reminds me of an actual Odor Eaters ad I once saw in the Cleveland Airport...
January 31, 2008 4:25 PM
Explosives could be formed into a shape that would appear just as ordinary shoes.
X-rays do not detect explosives. If you're serious about detecting a non-amateur shoe bomb, the TSA will need to use actual explosive detection technology.
The TSA's constant failure at "Red Team" tests (see http://www.osc.gov/documents/press/2003/pr03_07.htm ) indicate that x-raying shoes is not the right approach.
The TSA is doing nothing to catch bombs carried on someone's person? What about people who want to smuggle in explosives in their pants?
The shoe policy is reactionary and cowardly and does not make any of us safer. It's a huge misallocation of resources and a waste of time for everyone involved. Real explosive detection technology should be used and people should be allowed to keep their shoes on.
January 31, 2008 4:28 PM
I would like to know more about the TSA's policy on flip flops. In the past, a person wearing flip flops would not have to take them off, but for the past year we have been required to place them in a bucket for x-ray screening and walk barefoot around the security area. At first, I thought it was just a DCA thing, but then I was required to remove my flip-flops even at airports in California and Hawaii, two states in which flip flops play a dominant role in local footwear culture (I dunno, maybe you guys replaced all the west coast screeners with imported east coasters?)
I mean, I can understand why people who wear Crocs should have to take their footwear off because Crocs are hideous and anyone wearing them should be subjected to extra screening regardless, but there is no way that flip flops pose any sort of threat to national security. So please explain why I have to remove my flip flops during the screening process.
January 31, 2008 4:28 PM
It's ridiculous. You have managed to turn flying into a completely degrading experience.
Start profiling and stop asking grandmothers to take off their shoes. It's idiotic.
January 31, 2008 4:29 PM
The pictures to which you refer in your blog don't justify the removal of shoes. They only show that you MIGHT be able to detect something that looks like your particular mock-up of an explosive device. They don't show that it's practical or even feasible for a terrorist to blow up a plane by doing this. Just like the ban on liquids.... It has never been demonstrated that anyone could actually make a working liquid explosive aboard a plane! It's all wasteful, inconvenient, intrusive, unconstitutional "security theater" which doesn't make us a bit safer.
January 31, 2008 4:35 PM
I'd like to chime in with the other complaints of not having adequate seating areas to put shoes and belts, etc back on. I travel through different airports every week, and very few have adequate areas.
January 31, 2008 4:36 PM
The shoe thing is ridiculous and just a little humiliating.
Not to mention the floors in your typical airport are filthy.
Not to mention unsanitary ... the last thing anyone needs is to smell my feet after they've been incubating for 18 hours.
I still remember going through LAX back in 1999 with a six inch combat knife in my hand luggage. Nobody at the gate. I put my own bags through the X-ray machine (there was no attendant). There was nobody at the arch way. No attendant. No wanding. Nothing. Absolutely no indication that anyone cared at all about who got into the airport or on a plane.
In that kind of lax security context, I'm surprised you didn't see tourists on planes with semi-automatic rifles.
The shoe thing is simply a waste of my time, especially since the quality of TSA screening personnel hasn't improved to any noticeable extent since 9/11 or any other security "panic" that's set people off in the last five years.
January 31, 2008 4:43 PM
I LIKE BLUE SHOES. TERRORISTS WEAR RED SHOES.
January 31, 2008 4:45 PM
It's all about cost/benefit isn't it?
How many pairs of shoes have you screened? How many explosives have you found?
What is the average delay caused by screening shoes? Please multiply those 30-60 seconds by the average number of air travelers in a month. Multiply that by the 18 months of screening everyone's shoes. How many days have we lost?
Now divide by the number of explosives found. What is an acceptable loss to the American economy while looking for a minimal threat?
Assuming each person loses 45 seconds per screening and 140 people per flight with 30 flights per day from five airports per state (modest numbers, I think) you can see that in 18 months we've lost something like 7,000,000 hours of Productivity in a year and a half.
January 31, 2008 4:52 PM
Personally I avoid all this nonsense ( and the issues with liquids ) by not visiting the US anymore. I'd rather spend my holiday somewhere where they don't treat you like a criminal when you enter.
Give me a call when you come to your senses and I'll start visiting again.
January 31, 2008 4:53 PM
Why do the screeners and signs say "we recommend you take off your shoes", when in fact you REQUIRE us to take off our shoes? It makes no sense and is silly. Just say we have to take off our shoes, period, please.
January 31, 2008 4:58 PM
I agree with many other posters, if we are required to take off our shoes, then create sanitary conditions, and give us time and courtesy to put our shoes back on.
There MUST be a better way to examine shoes. What is TSA doing to look into alternative methods? Where is this "evolution" that is being talked about?
January 31, 2008 5:06 PM
If Reid had stuffed his explosives into his underwear, the "experience" of flying today would be completely different!
Safety is important, but the TSA should actually take steps to make flying safer, rather than the current policy to make it appear safer!
January 31, 2008 6:04 PM
ONE QUESTION.
How many shoe bombs have you found?
It’s an absurd waste of time, money and resources. The entire security checking system is a degrading load and too many of your TSA workers are just power hungry
Morons.
“DO YOU WANT TO FLY TODAY?”
“Why yes, I would like to. Just without all the …”
January 31, 2008 6:11 PM
I totally fail to see why those pictures justify removing and checking shoes - those balloons would have fit perfectly well in underwear. They really appear to be a knee-jerk reaction to make the non-frequently flying public feel that things are more secure - security theater, rather than real security. All I can say is that I am very glad Richard Reid was the shoe bomber, rather than the underwear bomber.
From a cost/benefit factor a number of the TSA's reactions are letting the terrorists win - terror and fear get promoted, people waste time, the economy gets hurt from people travelling less, or having to allocate more time for every trip, or carrying more stuff (airport clothes and regular clothes), wasting jet fuel.
If the air puffer technology gets reasonable in terms of throughput, that I can believe would help (although I still think a terrorist could jam the entire airport's worth of them by simply spilling some gunpowder (or whatever) outside the terminal for everyone to track in).
If you want me to step on a platform that uses the terrahertz scanners to scan below my knees, fine.
Just don't delay things, don't have huge lines, and don't waste our time. Taking shoes off is a pain, putting them on again is a pain, the in-between part is frequently gross (especially when connecting from international to domestic), and making people bring extra footwear (one set for the airport, and another for real work) is even worse.
January 31, 2008 6:12 PM
Why are there not carpeted areas, and multiple rows of chairs behind the screening areas to allow people to put their shoes back on? Most people , including myself, need to sit down and put our shoes on.
Instead, I usually have to lean up against a wall.
Don't you people (the tsa) THINK ? Do you people (the tsa) put your shoes on at home sitting down?
January 31, 2008 6:13 PM
Germs aren't an issue. We had Health and Human Services study this issue for us back in 2003 and their findings were there are no more germs on airport floors than there are in the gym or any average locker room. HHS specifically said in their August 12, 2003 letter, the chances of disease spreading are "extremely small to remote."
TSA blogger
January 31, 2008 6:14 PM
So just identify to the general public ONE SINGLE INSTANCE where you have correctly identified via a scanner *in advance* of boarding a plane a security threat to the general public smuggled in someone's shoes.
If you have ANY actual instances to share, this might improve your credibility on this issue.
Conveniently, your "why we screen shoes" page neglects to address this issue.
January 31, 2008 6:23 PM
I wear steel toed shoes and they come off every time I fly. Sometimes I grab socks that have holes in the toes. Been given dirty looks for that one. As a 54 yr old man my balance is beginning to fail when I stand on one foot so I can tie my shoes. Might be nice to have a shoe tying area or rail.
January 31, 2008 6:27 PM
If you want to screen shoes, go ahead. Four conditions:
1. You should have paper set down("butcher paper" like in the doctor's office) for people to walk across. I don't want my often-bare feet to touch the ground where thousands have already been earlier in the day.
2. Don't screen flip-flops, sneakers or stiletto heels. Why could I possibly be hiding in my plastic flip flops? If your answer is “anything,” than that means you should ban all carry-on luggage because bringing anything is too dangerous.
3. Be consistent! Cincinnati doesn’t require me to take off my shoes. Most everywhere else does.
4. I am also fine with TSA workers doing additional screening in my bag or running a metal detector over my body if that means I don’t have to take off my shoes; but only to the extent that it is not punishment. Turning on my laptop and typing a test word document is something I consider punishment. So is taking my Wii and all of the wires out of a box.
January 31, 2008 6:33 PM
I travel almost every week for business and I think that if you are wearing flat shoes with THIN soles there is no need to take off your shoes and walk on a dirty floor, use some common sense.
January 31, 2008 6:33 PM
Actually, the article doesn't explain it at all. In addition to the lack of dignity, why do something that does nothing to improve security?
Someone planted a bomb in a laptop. Now all laptops are scanned -- as if TSA employees can discern the thousands of different component patterns in laptops with a glance.
Someone tried to light a shoe bomb on a plane UNSUCCESSFULLY and was STOPPED. Now all shoes are scanned -- as if looking at their shape reveals the presence of explosives anyway.
Someone WROTE AN E-MAIL about hiding a bomb in a water bottle. Now all liquids are BANNED.
This is a very embarrassing combination of draconian knee-jerk reaction and lack of real security. In addition to being consistently one step behind the terrorists that guarantees the next serious attack will both be successful AND get something else banned or independently screened, what happens if someone hides a bomb in his/her rectum??
This isn't sarcasm here. I'm sick of security measures that waste time, strip away our dignity, waste money and -- above all else -- do absolutely nothing to protect us. TSA isn't fooling anyone, so there are no political benefits to reap by scanning shoes.
January 31, 2008 6:39 PM
I respect what you are trying to do, but I as a scientist, I can tell you that you are spreading fungus and bacteria between passengers, regardless of your "study". (Also, can you please post a citation reference to your study?)
You need to be responsible and disinfect the area at regular intervals, otherwise you are violating our personal hygiene rights.
January 31, 2008 6:50 PM
originally posted in the "first version of the blog" but this needs to be in the "shoes section". i'd like to see what some of the front line screener shave to say about the policy regarding those pax who cannot remove their shoes and specifically-to my reasons as noted below
as a passenger (and particularly one who flies over 100,000 miles a year, i have some questions directed to the "shoes off policy". i wear (and have to wear) orthopedic shoes and custom fitted orthotics as a result of ankle surgery and my question is simple....
why do the tsa's own policies differ from airport to airport? there are tsa procedures in place as to how to deal with pax who cannot take off their shoes but repeatedly they are ignored, misconstrued, or made up by the tsa employees on duty with the addition that more than 50% of the screeners i come in contact with do not know the definition of the word "orthotics". i have been threatened with "do i want to fly today" to "do you want me to call a cop"(both at JFK UA) yet to also go to other extreme, the screeners at my home airport (SFO-United terminal) have it down pat.
simply put, you need to have ALL airports follow THE SAME rules (including the ADA and FRPA and HIPPA) and screener s and supes need to know what they can and cannot ask. if you want to see record clearance times (and trust me, i know what i'm talking about as operational efficiency has been my career for 30 years, the whole key to line mgmnt is to have it done the SAME ACROSS THE BOARD with all TSA employees not only having a complete understanding of privacy laws but also a basic grasp of customer service techniques and the english language (case in point: lax t-7 ua terminal footbridge on sunday, january 20, 2007 approx 9pm. i told the screener i was wearing orthopedic shoes and orthotics and i was presented with "what?, your shoes have to come off". this was followed by my repeating that i was wearing orthopedic shoes and orthotics which was met with the response of" "supervisor, he be wearing ortho something or others and don't want to take his shoes off". as you can see, this is not a grammatically correct comment and n.b. i wne thru the very same terminal and checkpoint just over 36 hours before and did not have a problem.
January 31, 2008 6:54 PM
People shouldn't have to submit to any kind of screening before flying, so you can imagine what I think of the shoe rule.
I want to see a return of rights and dignity to the traveling American.
January 31, 2008 7:00 PM
There is no reason in your explanatory article why shoes are special compared to all other articles of clothing. It seems like a feel-good waste of our time because of this.
Then you also need to explain the policy I experienced where I did not have to take off my shoes but if I refused (I did) I was subjected to a more rigorous examination and "wanding"... that still didn't go near my shoes! It was purely punative.
January 31, 2008 7:18 PM
The person in front of me was wearing tennis shoes and passed through. Wearing the same type of shoe I was stopped. When asking for a chair on which to remove them because of a bad back, the agent had me wait a considerable amount of time for a complete check. Experienced a lot of pain and a great deal of time lost. I was over 75 years of age.
January 31, 2008 7:18 PM
Why do I have to remove my thin-soled flip flops? I am on prednisone which decreases my ability to fight infection. My neighbor's mother ended up with a fungal infection that her doctor said was directly related to removing her shoes and walking barefoot through airport security. "Wear a pair of socks." While that sounds good, then you have a contaminated pair of socks. Why doesn't TSA provide some kind of disposable slipper?
January 31, 2008 7:28 PM
Knew this blog was a PR scam. No answers, just government pap.
The shoe issue is a phony, but you won't find an honest discussion here - not with TSA in charge.
January 31, 2008 7:33 PM
I plan to fall and break my hip the next time I try to put my shoes on while standing, and I will sue the TSA! Please provide seating if you want to avoid such lawsuits! My heart goes out to our senior citizens who have arthritic knees or other maladies.
January 31, 2008 7:35 PM
Many of you have commented on the shoe removal policy. Since the liquid limitations went into effect in August of 06, TSA has required all passengers to remove their shoes. This makes it much more consistant for all travelers and gives us an opportunity to inspect every shoe. The threat is still real when it comes to IEDs hidden in shoes. While some may wear flip flops or other shoes that make it nearly impossible to hide an explosive device, it is a straight forward rule that has no room for interpretation- therefore you wont find "inconsistencies" from one airport to the other.
January 31, 2008 8:10 PM
X-Ray Machines CAN detect explosives by looking at the density of the items being examined thus removing shoes are a necessary safety precaution!
January 31, 2008 8:15 PM
Israeli airport security does not require passengers to remove shoes. Do they know something that we don't? Do we know something they don't?
January 31, 2008 9:11 PM
This shoe thing is something that drives me absolutely crazy!!! I have two sons who wear either basketball shoes or boots. So when they go through screening, its bin after bin of shoes and belts and bags and jackets and then they have to redress themselves. What a waste!
But, not as dumb as my friend having to take the shoes off of her toddler. I mean really, people. Have you ever tried to get shoes and a winter coat on a baby? Then take them off and put them back on. The baby isn't a risk! And her shoes are too small to hide a frickin' explosive.
Let's bring some sanity to this picture and stop treating everyone like criminals. Common sense folks!
January 31, 2008 9:14 PM
Though one could argue for screening large shoes, it is useless and a waste of time and resources to requite women with sandals or children to remove their shoes. This sort of blanket dictum illustrates the the shortcomings of this sort of security effort.
Not withstanding large, built-up shoe heels, there would have to be a new type of explosive that could be effective, yet require such a small amount that could be fit inside the heels of most street shoes. Seriously, a person could pack more explosives in their anal cavity than their shoes.
IMHO, this idea is mostly ineffectual and a cause of much waste and delay.
January 31, 2008 10:18 PM
Here's one for you. Recently a TSA agent "scanned" my bare feet as if I was hiding a bomb IN my feet. Come on, enough is enough! There is no consistency at any airport. All the TSA seems to do is further perpetuate some kind of government ordained fear they think we should have. And whats with all the yelling ex military jack offs who think yelling me to move along is going to get me to gather my stuff any quicker! It's all just a bunch of BS. Go back to the way things were before. We were probably safer in the past than we are now with "Big Brother TSA" and Homeland Security. Give me a break with all the nonsense!
January 31, 2008 10:48 PM
I am involved in public health. A few years back I got a nasty plantar wart from walking barefoot in my upscale health club. Very painful to have treated. The idea of getting another from the barfoot thing at the airport--well, it boggles the mind. I cannot believe we have to place our bare feet down where all manner of vermin have been before. Mind you I am a health care professional. I want security, but if the liquids have to be in plastic bags, then bloody well so should our feet be covered.
January 31, 2008 11:17 PM
As a diabetic, the last thing in the world I intend to do is subject myself to ANY increase in risk to damage to my feet. Removal of shoes, especially when you (TSA) are not capable of properly screening them to begin with, is simply not acceptable. Your bland assertion that "Germs aren't an issue. We had Health and Human Services study this issue for us back in 2003 and their findings were there are no more germs on airport floors than there are in the gym or any average locker room. HHS specifically said in their August 12, 2003 letter, the chances of disease spreading are "extremely small to remote."" just doesn't wash. I'm supposed to keep my shoes on IN MY HOME to safeguard my feet - and you expect me to take them off and walk on a filthy floor in an airport?
No thanks. Things like this are the reason I refuse to fly - that, and TSA's well-documented history of sexual and other physical assault, and of abuse of power and imagined authority, and the War On Liquids, and mission creep (since when do ID checks contribute *ANYTHING* to aircraft safety?!?)... the list goes on and on (and on, and on, and on, and on...).
January 31, 2008 11:20 PM
I understand the whole shoe thing - don't like it one bit, but understand. BUT... please, oh please, can some one explain to me why I see pilots and flight attendants just breeze on through the security screening?!?
January 31, 2008 11:30 PM
Your page on "why we screen shoes" boils down to "we screen shoes because we screen shoes." You don't provide any evidence, or even a coherent argument, that this screening increases anoyone's safety. In fact, all the materials used in shoes are also used in clothing; there is nothing special about the structure or composition of shoes, considering the full range of footwear vs. other items of clothing.
This is what is so frustrating about ALL of the supposed "security" procedures we are put through - every single one of them is something that any intelligent person can easily determine is not in fact adequate to prevent what we are told it is supposed to prevent. Therefore, we are being put through these paces for no good reason.
The fact that in addition even these inadequate policies are not consistently or effectively enforced just makes it all the more frustrating. Honestly, I feel more unsafe every time I fly, because the only reason I can come up with for putting together such an elaborate hodgepodge of inadequate procedures is that you have internally acknowledged that it is in fact impossible to provide any real security at all, so you're just doing as much make-travelers-uncomfortable hand-waving as possible in order to distract us from that fact.
January 31, 2008 11:47 PM
You say that "Germs aren't an issue. We had Health and Human Services study this issue for us back in 2003 and their findings were there are no more germs on airport floors than there are in the gym or any average locker room. HHS specifically said in their August 12, 2003 letter, the chances of disease spreading are "extremely small to remote."
Extremely small is not good enough. I do not walk with bare feet in locker-rooms or gyms because of unsanitary conditions. Most places such as military barracks REQUIRE flip flops to limit the spread of foot diseases.
I traveled through the Miami airport in December and was forced to walk barefoot following a man with OPEN SORES ON HIS FEET--that is right I had to step in the pus from another human being. How this is protecting me I do not fathom.
Is there not a point where the government is ashamed to treat its citizens like animals?
February 1, 2008 12:17 AM
Most security checks are not cleaned very well. It's annoying to have to remove my shoes, especially when I don't have to do so in most other countries. A lot of Asian airports are more secure and competently staffed. American airport security could learn a lot from them.
February 1, 2008 12:59 AM
I have a question? Would You fly without any security? Passengers could just walk right from the curbside straight to the plane. Would this be better?
February 1, 2008 1:06 AM
A question that comes up a lot is "How many shoe bombs have been found?" Now if you were a potential terrorist, and you knew the existing security measures, would you really try to use a shoe bomb? As inconvienient as it may seem, checking everyones shoes, seems neccessary as a deterant more than anything.
February 1, 2008 2:03 AM
Two items -
1. Provide a search function on the blog. I want to post about sanitation and CPAP equipment, but I don't know if anyone else has already done that. Why be redundent. If I could search your site for CPAP and see what other posts are there it would save you an I time.
2. I'm a CPAP user. When your agents take my CPAP machine out and run it through the scanner they insist that it be out of its case and in a bin. I go to great lengths to keep the gear SANITARY since it is used to provide air that I breath. Placing it in the bins where SHOES have been is unnacceptable and dangerous to my health. The agents just look at me dumbfounded when I try to explain. Help!!
February 1, 2008 2:07 AM
wait til some idiot hides a bomb in his/her underwear.
February 1, 2008 2:13 AM
This post has been removed by a blog administrator.
February 1, 2008 2:16 AM
Full disclosure: I think screening shoes is security theatre and horribly degrading.
As a college student, air travel is an unfortunately frequent, huge inconvenience. As much as I
1) despise being treated as a criminal,
2) wince at having my stuff thrown out when I happen to bring something banned in my carry-on accidentally (when you travel as much as I do, you're bound to slip up on liquids or whatever on occasion), and
3) feel uneasy watching my shoes manhandled by TSA workers out of the bin I put them in onto the moving conveyor belt which runs them straight into other people's luggage after x-raying them, getting laces or straps caught everywhere (Money doesn't grow on trees, people! Don't put my shoes directly onto the conveyor belt!)
I can't help but compare how good I've got it when I imagine how security must affect the elderly and families with small children.
And I don't have it all that good at all! Traveling alone, I have to remove my coat, sweatshirt, shoes (while standing, with outerwear in hand), cellphone from pocket, laptop, and "freedom baggie" of liquids. Put in bins. Walk through the metal detector. Put on and replace all those things I removed as my stuff is carelessly careening down the conveyor belt into other people's things or smashing fingers. Traveling alone is hard.
But traveling with small children is even worse. I frequently see families with two or three young children, strollers, diaper bags, and all sorts of bags to either care for or placate the kids while on-board. They'd be having a hard time even through regular security, but with these rules, all the kids' little shoes have to come off and put back on in addition to other burdens such as not being able to bring Juicy Juice for the kids or having to separate from the children if the metal detector does go off. Heaven forbid if the children start acting like, well, children and don't understand or misbehave or resist.
As far as the elderly go... I don't really see that many of them at airports anymore, at least not without younger, more capable family members near by. I know that my grandparents are very reluctant to fly anywhere since it is humiliating for them to feel like they are holding up lines because they are not able to take off their shoes while standing up. Moreover, my grandfather has a stint, which means he sets off every metal detector and even some retail anti-theft security systems... He carries papers with him to explain this to authority figures, but can he really trust TSA to be caring and considerate? On a consistent basis? Or will he be yelled at, pulled aside, asked whether he wants to fly today or not, or worse?
February 1, 2008 2:32 AM
nico's comment seems to be officially sanctioned, but I'm not sure it's comforting to know that there are "no more germs on airport floors than there are in the gym or any average locker room." These are not places I typically walk around barefooted!
I think what most people here are thinking when they say taking off shoes is dirty is that they'll increase their risk exposure for athlete's foot or other skin infections.
nico: A study on germs does not examine the risk of catching a foot mold that could cause a skin infection. Moreover, using a locker room as an example is not comforting, as it is a prime place in which athlete's foot is caught.
http://www.webmd.com/skin-problems-and-treatments/tc/athletes-foot-cause
February 1, 2008 2:46 AM
I received a Lung Transplant (Thanks to a donor) a little over a year ago so I try to avoid air travel and crowds because of my health condition. Unfortunately, I must return to the lung transplant facility transplant from my home in Alaska to Seattle Washington every 3 months for follow-up care. Part of the drug regime are immunesuppression medications to prevent rejection which, basically shut down my immune system. I am not alone, with several hundred/thousand other other lung transplant reciepients and 10's of thousands more organ tranplant reciepients across the U.S. I will tell you that my personnal experience concerning TSA's handling of people and their personal belongings is a cesspool. As for your comment about having more important things to worry about, I would tend to disagree. The common cold can kill a person in my condition and fungus is one of the more common complications and hardest to treat in Lung transplant receipents. I believe the average survival rate if I get fungus growing in my lungs is about 50%. So I would appreciate if you would move your thoughts concerning sanitary provisions up your priority list!!! Some of us might truly live longer.
Thanks for you time.
February 1, 2008 2:46 AM
As a paying member of the Clear Registered Traveler Program, I don't understand why the TSA still requires me to take off my shoes. You have already completed a thorough background check on me. You know I am no security threat. You know the biometric ID card ensures that I am not using a fake ID, and that my status is current. So if I am clearly identified as a trusted individual, why don't you trust my shoes?
Furthermore, some of the Clear machines have built-in shoe screeners, but TSA hasn't approved them, so they can't be used. I have to get back into the same slow line as everyone else. Wouldn't everyone move through security so much faster if registered travelers were allowed to move through security without having to take off their shoes?
February 1, 2008 3:33 AM
My issue with the shoe policy is that when my grandparents, ages 86 and 89, fly out to visit people they forced to take off their shoes. They both have to wear special shoes due to problems they have and it is very, very difficult for them to get their shoes on or off. To force any very elderly people to take their shoes off is not making anyone “safer.”
Maybe if this country wasn’t so freakin’ sue happy we could live in a country where common sense was allowed to be used. Let the old people go through regular screening without this extra bullshit.
February 1, 2008 4:21 AM
I'll leave the efficacy of x-raying everyone's shoes in eliminating a threat alone, since that seems to be very well covered already.
What I will protest strongly about is the total lack of the in-place TSA agents concern with following established law.
I am a handicapped individual, and after three years in a wheelchair have managed to reach a point where I can now walk, slowly, with a cane.
The ADA insists that reasonable accommodations be made, even by the government, even by the TSA.
Last time I left Philly, I of course went through the "special needs" short line to get to my gate. Knowing that I would have to remove my shoes, I wore slip-on shoes with no laces or even Velcro to mess with.
At the point I was required to remove my shoes, there was NO place to sit, and the TSA's only response to my question about a place to sit so I could remove my them was a curt grunt that there was no place to sit. Duh.
Same after being checked. While there were a few seats after going through the metal detector, a fair distance away, they were all in use holding luggage, people chatting, or the one gal sitting there talking on a cellphone.
Could I get any assistance from the TSA folks to clear a seat? No.
Could I get any assistance from the TSA folks in getting my laptop, shoes, small messenger bag, and cane out of the way and over to the seating? No.
Did a TSA agent DUMP my bare, unprotected laptop out of their grey plastic tray because I couldn't get to it fast enough? Yes.
Does anyone really wonder why there is such outright hate for the way TSA interacts with the public? They shouldn't.
Without even getting into the legitimacy of any of the security checks, one needs to enforce as strongly as possible treating the public as human beings, and insist that those travelers with physical disabilities receive the accommodation required by long established and well settled law.
I look forward to some sort of response to this from the TSA - to this point all questions and comments about this have been quite simply ignored.
If you have a fast lane for those with special needs, you also need to have someone there with enough authority and intelligence to move a chair when needed, and to ensure that the ADA minimums are at least met.
February 1, 2008 6:33 AM
Why in the world was I asked to remove the booties on my 5 month old daughter's feet when passing through security at ORD this past weekend?
February 1, 2008 7:22 AM
@nico: it is not so important whether there is a big chance of people catching germs from having to take off their shoes. What matters, is people's fear of catching germs. (Ironically, it seems similar to screening for shoe boms. It doesn't matter the chances are extremely small, we (well, you, the TSA) still put something in place to prevent shoe bombs.)
TSA's floor being as clean as a gym or locker room can't sound very comforting to someone who is afraid of germs.
February 1, 2008 7:59 AM
What irks me most about the shoe policy is that it's totally reactive--much like every other inane 'policy' of the TSA. How about some forward, proactive thinking for a change--be ahead of the curve, not desperately trying to catch up after the fact.
February 1, 2008 8:12 AM
My comment is about international travel, specifically Atlanta. I live in Atlanta and fly internationally occasionally. Coming back from my international destination I've already gone through security (including taking my shoes off) to get on the plane, flown all the way in the air to get to Atlanta, then gone through immigration etc. and then when I choose the 'final destination Atlanta' line I am forced to take my shoes off again?????? Can I ask why? I am not getting on another plane, in fact, I just want to get my bags and get home! Unless you are wearing slip ons this just gums up the line and takes extra time. And again, there is limited seating to put your shoes back on after you are forced to take them off. This is the model of inefficiency, can you please explain why our shoes need to be checked after we have already landed and are at our final destination?
February 1, 2008 8:38 AM
I'm not as young as I use to be . So I need a place to sit and remove my shoes and put them back on with out being rushed by TSA agents. And nicer attitudes!!! Maybe find another way of doing this please.
February 1, 2008 8:58 AM
Thanks, Andrea, for clarifying that you are doing it this way to provide a consistent approach.
What most people here are complaining about is that it is consistently ineffective at the desired result (detecting IEDs), not that some places make you take them off and some don't.
An x-ray machine cannot detect an explosive. Find a technology that can and implement it, but in the mean time, stop bothering with the circus.
February 1, 2008 9:00 AM
There ARE inconsistancies from one airport to another, I went to Texas just last week, and while standing in the line to get thru the security, I saw a man, not military, walk thru the metal detector WITHOUT removing his boots. They did not make him take them off. They just let him go thru the detector. I understand the policy, but it should apply to everyone. And there is not enough seating for those of us who have medical problems to put our shoes on and be rushed to do so. They practically throw you thru the lines and expect you to get your stuff and be on your merry way. With the attitudes these people have, they should look in to hiring people who, understand that it may take one person a little longer than someone else. Have they never flown before or what? I am sure they don't get treated the way they treat most passengers.
February 1, 2008 9:09 AM
Please give us MORE TABLES!
Check point delays are caused when we have to wait for people to unpack their stuff and taking off their shoes. We all have to wait until we get to the ONE table before the xray to BEGIN loading bins.
Just set up a much longer line of tables before the check point so everyone can load the bins earlier, and be ready to go by the time they get to the xray.
If nothing else, it will give us something to do while waiting on line!
February 1, 2008 9:14 AM
For all those who question the shoe policy based upon the fact that no shoe bombs have been found, you really don't understand do you? The TSA has been charged with NEVER letting another 9/11 happen again. Now we all know there aren't hundreds of terrorists going through checkpoints everyday. The TSA is looking for that 1 out of a billion person who is coming through with intent to do harm. Talk about a tough job! It seems like most people think TSA should all be psychics and know who the bad guys are ahead of time. It doesn't work like that.
February 1, 2008 9:18 AM
Have you found ANY weapons or explosives in peoples' shoes? How many? What type? Unless your policy is based on results, it is merely inconveniencing millions of passengers (you know, the ones who pay the salaries of all those TSA (thousands standing around) employees.
February 1, 2008 9:51 AM
I just recently took a cruise to the Bahamas and this was the first time I had flown since 1998. I was very intimated by the whole security process not knowing what to expect. The one thing that I would like to see is some kind of seating (benches) before and after the screeners to be able to sit down to take your shoes off and to put them back on. It would make it a lot easier on us old folks.
February 1, 2008 9:53 AM
I do not mind taking my shoes off provided that there is a good rationale for it. As it stands right now, one has not been adequately provided. The word IED is tossed about, and, while certainly a concern, it is unclear whether the security measures are that effective.
Testing and real life experiences have proven that agents commonly miss metal blades and weapons. Metal appears very clearly on X-rays. If this is the case, how is an agent who cannot see the outline of a knife going to notice the subtle density differences of a bombed shoe?
The phrase "security theater" is thrown about, and, in a way, it seems like this is the case right now. The web site link does not provide much beyond a simple "it is necessary". The IED X-ray images go a long way to making seem more plausible, but, how can you assure the public that such a campaign is truly effective. As another anonymous suggested, the balloon bombs in the shoe X-rays could have easily been hidden elsewhere on the body.
In the end, I would like to see hard numbers, and I would like to see testing results that prove agents can spot such a bomb at a real airport, not a realistic simulation. Test things before they become a threat rather than reacting to threats so as to create the perception of security.
February 1, 2008 10:19 AM
The shoe removal at airport has little to do with security and everything to do with increasing "public awareness." That's why you don't have to remove your shoes boarding flights into the U.S. from other countries.
I think the TSA should require us to remove our shoes before getting in a car, in order to prevent car bombs.
February 1, 2008 10:23 AM
It IS about Richard Reid. This shoe inspection did not start until he was arrested. And then the prosecutor did not even charge him on the shoe explosives. Is this really a threat?!
We give away our precisous civil liberties because we trust that TSA is really protecting us. Discredited security measures undermine this faith. TSA has done more than anyone to carry out Bin Laden's agenda -- eroding our free system of government.
February 1, 2008 10:56 AM
How is this policy NOT about Richard Reid? I read the article. It's all about IEDs! Gee, wasn't that EXACTLY what Richard Reid brought aboard? I expected to hear real justification (outside of the Reid angle) on this issue. If you all are going to try to provide better transparency with regard to TSA policies via this blog, you're going to have to try harder than that.
February 1, 2008 11:17 AM
For everyone who complains about the TSA security procedures, I say this:
There should be a dedicated airline where passengers don't have to get screened. You just walk right into the airport and onto the plane. No fuss, no removing of shoes, no embarrassing pat-downs, nothing. Just breeze on thru the security gate and take your seat on the plane. Then it's between you and God what happens to you 30,000 feet in the air.
As for me, and my husband, who is a former TSO -- WE will fly via the airlines that use traditional security screening. The more security procedures put into place, the better! There ARE bad buys out there, and they WILL try again. Keep doing your best, TSA, we support you!!!
February 1, 2008 11:24 AM
I fly a lot and lucky me I get to spend quite a bit of time in the security line. As a group we need to admit something to ourselves, screening shoes is a pointless waste of time, there I said it, out loud.
All screening shoes does is cause delays.
Having said that I will also admit that we will always screen people shoes so, here are some tips,
First to those of you complaining about TSA telling you to 'move along' they are doing that because you are in the way!
Get your inappropriate footwear and you too large 'carry on' and move along! There ARE places in every airport to put your inappropriate footwear back on, you just have to move out of the screening areas to get to them.
They are not at the end of the belt, move along!
Germs?? Have you looked at your feet?? Nuff said.
Footwear, I know you have to look your best for the cab ride to your hotel but heres the deal, spike heals, open toed whatevers and shoes that are too small for your feet and thus too hard to put on, those are not 'airport' shoes.
You KNOW you have to take you shoes off, plan for it!
If you need some better looking shoes after the plane ride, put them in your bag and change when you arrive, it's not that hard and trust me, none of your fellow passengers care if your outfit matches. In fact we wouldn't notice that but we will notice you holding up the security line.
All in all the TSA people do a good job considering who their customers are. One thing they could do is a bit more advanced warning or instruction stuff for th rookie flyer's in line. Have someone out there explaining what is about to happen and what is expected of the traveler to smooth things out a bit.
OK, I think I've said enough about shoes.
February 1, 2008 11:32 AM
As others have said, Israeli security does not require you to remove your shoes. Somehow I think that they are probably more concerned about terrorist attacks than we are -- and their security is far more thorough than any American airport's that I've been to.
So why not take a leaf out of Israel's book and spend all the time wasted doing something valuable?
February 1, 2008 12:43 PM
I have bad feet (fallen arches) and it is very painful for me to walk even a few steps without shoes with arch supports. Can somebody like me get a "pass" on taking her shoes off? A doctor's note? Anything?
February 1, 2008 12:53 PM
Shoes, wow this is a hot topic and I certainly understand why. But lets talk about the threat that can be posed by someone trying to do harm to others on an airplane. Of course when we talk about shoes the first thing that comes to mind is Richard Reid and the "shoe bomb" and this is a real threat. One person tried and failed, but someone else may just succeed then the public would be screaming about "where was security?" So lets talk about how shoes may pose a threat to air travelers, we're not just talking about explosives, other things can be hidden inside shoes as well..razor blades for instance. A razor blade in someone's shoe could pose a risk...however small you think it might be....to you and or other passengers on an airplane. And items like this have actually been found at the checkpoint. Also, drugs have been strapped to people's ankles, a bank robber was caught in Philadelphia after a TSO found a crack pipe strapped to his ankle. A note that he used in a several robberies was found in his belongings. Cocaine has been discovered as well as marijuana, and other drugs. So the removal of shoes is important, lets not forget that most shoes will alarm the Walk through metal detector and be required to be removed anyway.
February 1, 2008 1:23 PM
Thanks for the entertainment. Thank goodness that guy didn't get that switch on board!
February 1, 2008 1:59 PM
I saw a news report where the TSA recommended throwing a pair of socks in your carry-on bag. That way, if you are wearing sandals or flip flops, you can throw the socks on and avoid walking on the dirty airport floors. Makes sense to me. I really don't think removing my shoes is that big of a deal, though I agree there could be more chairs/benches at the end the checkpoints so we can put our shoes back on.
February 1, 2008 2:12 PM
I find it interesting that TSA doesn't think foot diseases are a big deal because the chance is "extremely small to remote."
However, the threat from shoe and liquid bombs is also extremely small to remote. So how can TSA ignore something "extremely small to remote" on one hand and then waste so many resources on shoe and liquid carnivals?
February 1, 2008 2:45 PM
Design an area where passengers can reassemble bags and put on shoes. A table with knee level rail?
February 1, 2008 3:07 PM
In response to Eric:
As a diabetic, the last thing in the world I intend to do is subject myself to ANY increase in risk to damage to my feet.
Eric,
Being a Type I diabetic for 13 years I understand the concerns and difficulties of all my fellow traveling diabetics. Eating right, keeping your medical supplies cool, and controlling blood sugar levels are all complications that we have to deal with on a 24/7 basis. I worked in an airport for 3 years and currently work at TSA headquarters. If the stress of traveling doesn’t spike your blood sugar, the fast food in the airport will.
I understand your fears of walking with bare feet at checkpoints because diabetics do have sensitive feet. Socks, booties, and nylons may be worn so that your bare feet do not have to touch the floor. If you forget socks, some airports provide booties or nylon coverings at the front of checkpoints. Washington Dulles airport has buckets of blue booties at the front of the checkpoint for passengers to grab right when they need to take off their shoes. When I go through the checkpoint I wear socks or bring an extra pair to slip on before going through security.
February 1, 2008 3:29 PM
Well, personally, I'm wondering why the shoe based security is so lax overall. Sure, we take our shoes off and have them X-Rayed, but what about the laces? Shoes can be de-laced, and the shoelaces can be used as effective strangulation devices. I say the TSA should confiscate all shoelaces prior to boarding, and give them back after the flight has landed and everyone has gotten off of the airplane. You can't be too safe in this day and age can you? No. No you can not.
February 1, 2008 3:52 PM
In response to Lindsey:
I would like to know more about the TSA's policy on flip flops. In the past, a person wearing flip flops would not have to take them off, but for the past year we have been required to place them in a bucket for x-ray screening and walk barefoot around the security area. At first, I thought it was just a DCA thing, but then I was required to remove my flip-flops even at airports in California and Hawaii, two states in which flip flops play a dominant role in local footwear culture (I dunno, maybe you guys replaced all the west coast screeners with imported east coasters?)
I mean, I can understand why people who wear Crocs should have to take their footwear off because Crocs are hideous and anyone wearing them should be subjected to extra screening regardless, but there is no way that flip flops pose any sort of threat to national security. So please explain why I have to remove my flip flops during the screening process.
Lindsey,
As an occasional Crocs wearer, ouch, that hurts. Can't argue with you about the ugliness, but they sure are comfortable.
As both a TSA employee and a frequent traveler, I feel your shoeless pain. No one likes taking off their shoes, myself included, but until we get one technology that can get a good look at everything, including shoes, in one shot, all shoes - including flip flops - have to come off. Any shoe can be tampered with, and trust me, the last thing you want is the government trying to classify exactly what a "sandal" is. Yikes.
So you know, Ethel, one of our moderators, is actively working on solutions so you can keep your flip flops on.
February 1, 2008 4:01 PM
Re: "So why not take a leaf out of Israel's book and spend all the time wasted doing something valuable?"
In Israel, foreigners receive closer scrutiny automatically and racial and religious profiling is accepted. Interrogation and body searches are carried-out intensively. Aggressive questioning is also part of the Israeli approach to uncovering threats.
In 1986, Anne-Marie Murphy, a pregnant, 32-year-old Irish woman, was on her way to board a London flight to Israel. After passing through several security checks, she was stopped for a targeted conversation by Israeli security because she stuck out...pregnant women do not often travel long distances alone. Authorities became more interested in her because of the evasive answers she gave. Turns out, she had a bomb in her carry-on bag. Could you imagine the backlash for questioning a pregnant woman traveling in the US?
Israeli security solutions would NEVER fly here! Now, how about those shoes?
February 1, 2008 4:10 PM
Anyone who has a strong desire to take down an airplane, can and will do it, whether or not they are searched by TSA. Anyone who does not have a strong desire to take down an airplane, will not do it, whether or not they are search by TSA. The threat is embodied in the "person", not in the "things" they are carrying.
February 1, 2008 4:16 PM
Lynn, please tell me just WHAT exactly could possibly be hidden in a thin flip flop. And on top of that, just what could be found in a toddler's shoe?
Does TSA perceive threats in a dream world or is any of this grounded in reality? Sadly, the more I read this, the more I think that TSA reads more fiction than reality.
The shoe carnival is nothing but harassment and does nothing to secure planes. Of course, it sure looks like TSA's doing something though.
February 1, 2008 4:27 PM
It would prudent for the TSA folks creating these ludicrous policies to travel and experience the oddities of the system they created.
Some of the issues are
1) Consistency across all airports; some airports like National can be ok if enough lines are open while others like Philadelphia simply don't know what they are doing.
2) Based on published reports it seems that plastic guns can get through the screening process while shoes do not. There is something definitely wrong here and it should be corrected.
3) According to the TSA web site the Jan 25th covert test with CNN was not successfull yet you considered it a success how does that make any sense? Are you really spending the money to properly train the screeners?
4) According to your web site the following items are permited for carry-on
Tools (seven inches or less in length)
Screwdrivers (seven inches or less in length)
however you don't specifically address multi-tools which typically contain one or more knifes. Are multi-tools in which the knife blade is shorter the seven inches permitted for carry-on?
5) Why do we need to pay $100 for and ID to speed us through security when we already paying fees with our ticket for this extra security?
6) Why aren't Federal ID's, especially the new PIV and CAC cards acceptable for quick access through security? In order to get any of these ID the person has been through a NCAC check at minimum if not full clearance in many cases.
February 1, 2008 4:31 PM
Caitlin and Lynn, how much is the TSA paying you to respond to certain posts, with information the TSA wants the public to hear?
February 1, 2008 4:38 PM
There are a lot of very valid complaints about not having anywhere to sit while removing and putting back on footwear. A large portion of the airports in our country were built back in the days when security screening was either non-existant or perfunctory. The shoe thing is pretty new in the grand scheme of things! Whenever there is enough space to place chairs without creating a tripping hazard or violating a fire code I have seen chairs placed before and/or after the x-ray screening area at my airport DAL, in Las Vegas, Green Bay, DFW, just to name a few.
I understand its a hassle to tie your shoes standing up, and for some of us the idea of sitting on the floor is out of the question, but when space allows TSA tries to be more accomodating. It will take time to update all the airports built before Y2K to incorporate security more smoothly into the floor plans.
February 1, 2008 5:04 PM
An earlier commenter wrote:
This is what is so frustrating about ALL of the supposed "security" procedures we are put through - every single one of them is something that any intelligent person can easily determine is not in fact adequate to prevent what we are told it is supposed to prevent. Therefore, we are being put through these paces for no good reason.
Exactly. It is insulting to our intelligence, and it is painful to go along with such a wasteful charade.
If I was a terrorist, why would I try to hide an explosive in my shoe? I'll just pack it between my foot and my thick wool sock and walk through the screener.
Or I'll pack it into a bottle of infant formula...
Or it will go in the hollow handles of my carry-on bag...
Or in my modified belt...
Or..the list of possibilities is endless.
Lynn, it is time you faced the facts. Your agency is despised because it is harassing travelers a great deal, but improving security very little. The current regulations and practices are indefensible, and so you will just draw anger in trying to defend them.
If you are here because you want to improve your agency's image and to encourage the cooperation of travelers, I have a suggestion for you. Tell your bosses that we would like TSA to do the following:
Go to Congress, explain that the public has some legitimate concerns about the value of TSA screenings as they currently stand, and request a review of the practice by some independent (i.e. vested only in improving security, with no concern for defending existing procedures or justifying some politicians rhetoric)commission of experts.
We want security screenings that make sense, that give us a real gain in security in return for the hassle and expense.
February 1, 2008 5:14 PM
Germs on the floor at airport security checkpoints:
http://www.airportbusiness.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=5&id=7090
About 17 million pairs of feet move through Lindbergh Field Airport in San Diego every year. Each passenger is asked to take off their shoes at security. Some are clean, some are dirty, and some carry diseases, 10News reported.
"If there are individuals walking barefoot or with socks, they will transmit to another person walking over the same spot," lower leg desease expert Dr. Daniel Lee said.
What do socked or barefooted passengers leave behind? 10News used petri dishes to gather samples where passengers picked up their carry-ons off the conveyer belt at the security checkpoint.
After sampling in San Diego, a 10News employee headed to Las Vegas and Phoenix -- two popular destinations for San Diegans.
Investigative reporter Marti Emerald gave the samples to Quadrants Scientific in Rancho Bernardo.
The lab identified a mold from McCarron Airport in Las Vegas as trichophyston, which causes ringworm and favus, a nasty disease of the scalp.
The next test was from Sky Harbor Airport in Phoenix, where samples were lifted to test for bacteria.
Scientists found bacteria and fungus unique to the areas where passengers removed their shoes.
"I do have concerns over the organisms you found," Lee said. "Staphylococcus causes skin infections that goes deep through the layers and people who are sensitive can pick it up."
Lee said this particular organism is resistant to many of the antibotics used these days.
Please don't insult our intelligence by trying to tell us there are no harmful bugs on the floor or to wear socks or booties.
Germs will get on the socks and replicate themselves in the nice warm environment of ones shoes and suddenly a severe infection in someone already compromised.
February 1, 2008 5:17 PM
The biggest problem with the TSA is the staff - they are rude, aggressive, ignorant and seemingly stupid. No one really minds having their shoes scanned or removing laptops. What they mind is being abused by officious unhelpful staff.
My advice - get them some customer training and make it mandatory to SMILE...
February 1, 2008 5:31 PM
In addition to the various fungi, bacteria, and viruses you can pick up by walking around the TSA checkpoint, I wonder how many contact infections are caused by the act of placing shoes (soles down or up) into the same bin as your laptop, wallet, etc.
The last time you walked through an aiport bathroom, did you feel a strong need to touch the floor with your hands or place your laptop or wallet on the ground? Well, you are doing so (by proxy) every time you put your shoes or belongings into the same bin as thousands of other travellers. The cost of resulting diarrhea, infections, etc. is a direct outcome of this absurd rule.
February 1, 2008 7:00 PM
my original post in the "main forum" was removed so i'm posting this here in "the shoe forum". there is nothing disrespecting in my post but rather simply pointing out inconsistencies in the shoe policy and i'm trying t find an official answer from the tsa. thanks
as a passenger (and particularly one who flies over 100,000 miles a year, i have some questions directed to the "shoes off policy". i wear (and have to wear) orthopedic shoes and custom fitted orthotics as a result of ankle surgery and my question is simple....
why do the tsa's own policies differ from airport to airport? there are tsa procedures in place as to how to deal with pax who cannot take off their shoes but repeatedly they are ignored, misconstrued, or made up by the tsa employees on duty with the addition that more than 50% of the screeners i come in contact with do not know the definition of the word "orthotics". i have been threatened with "do i want to fly today" to "do you want me to call a cop"(both at JFK UA) yet to also go to other extreme, the screeners at my home airport (SFO-United terminal) have it down pat.
simply put, you need to have ALL airports follow THE SAME rules (including the ADA and FRPA and HIPPA) and screener s and supes need to know what they can and cannot ask. if you want to see record clearance times (and trust me, i know what i'm talking about as operational efficiency has been my career for 30 years, the whole key to line mgmnt is to have it done the SAME ACROSS THE BOARD with all TSA employees not only having a complete understanding of privacy laws but also a basic grasp of customer service techniques and the english language (case in point: lax t-7 ua terminal footbridge on sunday, january 20, 2007 approx 9pm. i told the screener i was wearing orthopedic shoes and orthotics and i was presented with "what?, your shoes have to come off". this was followed by my repeating that i was wearing orthopedic shoes and orthotics which was met with the response of" "supervisor, he be wearing ortho something or others and don't want to take his shoes off". as you can see, this is not a grammatically correct comment and n.b. i wne thru the very same terminal and checkpoint just over 36 hours before and did not have a problem.
February 1, 2008 7:07 PM
To quote from the Kurt Vonnegut book A Man Without A Country - I hope nobody comes up with explosive pants!
February 1, 2008 7:07 PM
solution:
why not have a special RED square bin that is the dimension of a pair of shoes? this bin would only be used for shoes and would be marked "shoes only"
on the other bins, it would be marked "no shoes" (if someone puts shoes in the other bins, the TSA agent would remove them and let the passenger know.
whether or not germs are an issue, i'm just crazy about putting my laptop (which i sometimes type on while i'm in bed) or my plastic bag of 3 oz liquids toiletries in the same bin someone just had their shoes in about 60 seconds before me.
and by the way, i think TSA agents have good customer service in my experience. in fact, one manager in san diego helped me out when i had inadvertently printed my 'return' boarding pass for southwest flight.
February 1, 2008 8:26 PM
I second the guy who suggested TSA be consistent with shoes. I flew from Logan to Miami. In Logan I was told "take off your shoes, all footwear must be screened." In Miami, I was told "why are you taking off your sneakers? Do you not understand what a SHOE is?"
Apparently they didn't screen sneakers.
February 1, 2008 10:26 PM
Christopher, the study you cite is not valid because the government has ceased to provide trustworthy information. Over and over again, government departments have lied to us to promote their own special interests. It is easy to cite dozens of examples, from the EPA telling rescuers it was safe to work at ground zero after 9/11, to the actual fate of Pat Tillman, to the official denial of environmental science despite the opinions of the government's own scientists. Your bosses have lied to all of us (you included) over and over again. Frankly, the government can no longer be trusted, and any government study designed to support a controversial policy is not credible. Can you cite an independent study to show us that passing through security without shoes is safe?
A respectful reply is requested.
February 1, 2008 10:54 PM
The shoe thing is stupid. Most of what the TSA does is stupid. Once the cabins received armored doors, what's the point? Why people have to travel with a lot of shampoo and stuff is also a mystery to me. Aren't they going places that already have shampoo. Like hotels and homes of friends? Leave the cr*p at home people.
February 2, 2008 12:13 AM
Oooooh, balloons.
Looks like the lifts for a short man's home-made elevator shoes to me.
February 2, 2008 12:14 AM
I have a condition called "Peripheral Neuropathy", in which the nerves in the feet do not work well.
As a result, it is literally painful to walk across a hard, concrete floor in bare feet. TSA should not only put in rubber pads for its workers to stand on, but for the entire area going through security.
February 2, 2008 12:24 AM
Anything that can be concealed in a shoe could be concealed in someone's pockets or underwear. Furthermore, explosives could be molded into the shape of a shoe sole and not even detected by x-ray anyway.
Beyond the huge waste of time and money, it means that all of the bins and conveyor belts are covered with the same germs present on bathroom floors, since people walk out of the bathrooms and place their shoes directly in the bins and on the conveyor belts.
February 2, 2008 12:35 AM
in response to this question:
why not have a special RED square bin that is the dimension of a pair of shoes? this bin would only be used for shoes and would be marked "shoes only"
My only response to that is to laugh! Good idea, it makes sense and it would work. Unfortunatly, it seems that most people in the security lines do not read signs, or follow instructions!
February 2, 2008 12:43 AM
How many terrorists have been caught by making them take off their shoes???
February 2, 2008 2:16 AM
I have actually experimented with this show thing. I am concerned about the germ issue becuase the airport area is very dirty and I have a foot condition. This "health study" is crap anyway though.
So, I tell the guy that I have a medical condition and can't remove my shoes and what do they do? Take me over to the "personal inspection area" and then SWIPE my shoes with swab to test for explosive chemicals without taking them off. Umm, wait a minute? I thought your policy was all about what you can do with the X-ray? Huh.
And if you are trying to say that there was a shoe issue BEFORE Mr. Reid, then you would have had people taking off their shoes before that, and you would have caught Mr. Reid BEFORE he got on the plane. So this is just a knee-jerk reaction to show that you are "doing something" to justify your over-priced and ineffective existance.
It is not feasible to lock down a country this size, there is not enough money in the world. The terrorists aren't trying to kill us, they are trying to ruin us financially---the TSA is participating in their success.
If you really wanted to be effective you would:
1. Talk to the Isralies---they have been fighting terrorism longer than us and don't seem to have a problem with their airplanes.
2. Use biometrics. IDs can be faked, much harder to fake fingerprints, eyeballs, and such.
3. Have a "threat credibility system" like a credit rating. People go to a place and register their biometrics somewhere (when they are not flying) and do a background check, completely optional and voluntary. These people then can almost walk through like the airline staff can, because they have proven who they are and that they are not criminals. People who don't have this have to submit to the slower more rigorous check. As a bonus you would have a great database of people who fly.
I won't go into profiling, you should do it, but it is not necessarily your fault you can't, it's the higher-ups with no spine.
February 2, 2008 2:42 AM
In response to tso tom:
Tom, presumably if a terrorist hid a knife or razor blade in their shoes this would be detectable by the magnatron without removing our shoes. I was willing to let you slide on most of your statement, but this:
"... Cocaine has been discovered as ell as marijuana, and other drugs."
IS COMPLETELY INSANE! Are you implying that the flying public is at risk because someone might have some coke or pot in their shoes? OR are you implying that the TSA is using this security theater to expand the government's drug war into airport security lines? Perhaps they should also examine the contents of any paperwork or laptop records to make sure there are no tax cheats as well?
February 2, 2008 3:38 AM
The question was asked about why pilots and other flight crew do not need to remove thier shoes.
The reason for this is because they are already in control of the airplane and there is no need for them to smuggle something inside a shoe.
February 2, 2008 9:59 AM
I find it amusing that the pic of the shoes show balloons containg less than 100mls of liquid in each balloon. Dumbass terrorist should've just put the liquid in a bottle in clear view of 'security'
February 2, 2008 10:29 AM
I don't have a problem with taking off my shoes and belt, as long as you provide me with a chair on the other side to sit in while I re-dress myself. I am too old and too white to walk around with my pants hanging down and my shoes untied.
February 2, 2008 10:32 AM
In response to:
How many terrorists have been caught by making them take off their shoes???
The real question is: How many terrorists haven't attempted to bring shoe bombs on planes because TSA is checking them? Its not all about how many items TSA finds. Its also about being a deterrent.
February 2, 2008 10:47 AM
The two pairs of shoes shown in the picture don't show that they were used to smuggle explosives. In one we see just a wire. The other pair of shoes show two balloons filled with something -- my guess is it's drug smuggling. In both cases, this is not a security risk to the plane.
Aside from the Richard Reid example, has the TSA even found a pair of shoes that actually contained explosives (not heroin or coke)?
February 2, 2008 10:55 AM
It looks like you are trying to deceive us. From elsewhere on the TSA website (http://www.tsa.gov/press/happenings/kip_hawley_x-ray_remarks.shtm) for the xray images of the shoes you talked about we see the accompanying text:
"This is a slide or several images showing a mockup of the Richard Reid shoe bomb with simulated explosives, which look the same on as real explosives on an X-ray. We use these images in our covert testing program."
Please note the words "mockup" and "simulated explosives". In other words, these are shoe "bombs" that the TSA created for training. I feel very angry that you would try to mislead us by claiming these are actual shoe bombs that the TSA found in the wild.
February 2, 2008 11:19 AM
For those of you who think that you can not fit enough explosives into a shoe to be a threat...what if several people each had explosives in their shoes and then combined them later??? Just a thought.
February 2, 2008 12:39 PM
In response to Ottnott…
You stated that you could get explosives through by “packing it into a bottle of infant formula, hollow handles of your carry-on bag or your modified belt,” and in the same post you claim your intelligence is being insulted. Well, I hate to insult your intelligence anymore than you are already claiming BUT if you packed explosives in any one of the things you suggested they would be VISIBLE on the x-ray machine and you will have a first class ticket to an 8x6 shiny metal cell.
February 2, 2008 3:33 PM
I still fail to see how removing shoes will thwart any would-be terrorist. Isn't it true that any amount of explosives that could be smuggled in a shoe could also be smuggled on a person in the form of an appearance altering apparatus. Obviously, a relatively thinner person could wear some sort of a fat suit filled with explosives or other contraband, could they not? Even something smaller that wraps around an appendage or their torso could be filled with a liquid explosive. Your shoe policy does nothing except cause a hassle and an even larger bottleneck at security checkpoints. There aren't even places to sit, and if you take even 10 seconds too long to grab your belongings (I've had to fill 3 tubs before with my shoes, coat, belt, laptop, laptop case, luggage) you will be hassled by the unfriendly TSA employees at the checkpoint. Besides, there is still the issue of shoelace strangulation AFTER you put your shoes back on.
February 2, 2008 3:37 PM
How many planes have been blown up by shoes? 0. How many attempts have been made? 1. If there had been another attempt, god knows it would be all over the air waves as some massive triumph.
No, the fact is that the TSA has caused the only real damage to America. Wasted time equals lost productivity adding up to billions of dollars in economic damage perpetrated by the TSA.
These shoe screenings weren't even in place yet Richard Reid was stopped. Suddenly we need new rules? The shoe screenings have done absolutely nothing but hassle millions of people, cost billions of dollars for zero gain, made your agency a laughing stock, and made the idea of airport security a farce.
You need to focus on risk "management" rather than this irrational concept of preventing all danger.
February 2, 2008 7:38 PM
Of course it is the screeners who get the bulk of complaints about the sanitary conditions of the security checkpoints. Simple solution to those of you worried about foot fungi, mildew, and other floor conditions: wear socks.
Keep in mind that the TSA neither owns nor controls the airport security checkpoints. In most cases the TSA is a tenant that pays rent to the airport and whatever quasi-government state agency runs it. So is you are coming through an airport in most major American cities and you are less than impressed with the cleaning - as most of us who work at the airports are - bear in min that the custodial contract most likely went to the lowest bidder.
By the way, don't worry about the floor too much; it's that filthy, disgusting air vent over your head that is the real threat.
February 2, 2008 8:12 PM
GERMS YOU BET !! They swab your dirty shoes around the edges where your feet go then use the same cloth on the handles of your purse and luggage. Then back again!! Inside your bag where your snacks are. Its filthy someone is going to get sick
February 2, 2008 8:22 PM
It might not be officially "all about Richard Reid" but that is where it started. In the history of aviation there has been one nut - and he was actually a nut - who tried to set fire to plastique, which you can't actually do. There are no other documented instances of explosives being concealed in shoes and there are not going to be. This is just one of dozens of bogies which are held over us and frequently revitalised to keep us in fear of a virtually non-existent threat.
February 3, 2008 4:32 AM
Nancy Toby said...
So just identify to the general public ONE SINGLE INSTANCE where you have correctly identified via a scanner *in advance* of boarding a plane a security threat to the general public smuggled in someone's shoes.
If you have ANY actual instances to share, this might improve your credibility on this issue.
Conveniently, your "why we screen shoes" page neglects to address this issue.
January 31, 2008 6:23 PM
***********************************
I personally discovered a razor blade hidden under the insold of a passenger's sneakers. This item was found via x-ray screening.
February 3, 2008 7:31 AM
I fly at least 40 weeks a year. I can not believe after all these yeaars we still have to remove our shoes. By now you should have a machine which will inspect our shoes while still on our feet. If this were a private enterprise pulling this stunt they would have been out of business years ago.
February 3, 2008 7:35 AM
i think i have it figured out .... you put us through hell before we board so by the time we get on the airplane we'd gladly rip any terrorist to shreds!
February 3, 2008 12:14 PM
In a past life, I traveled quite frequently. On returning home in June 2004 in the Kansas City airport, I witnessed something that blew my mind and forever changed my opinion of the TSA. I passed through the security checkpoint with the usual hassles. At the end of the security checkpoint sitting in a chair was a five-year old girl crying her eyes out. Her mother squatted next to her attempting to console her. A female TSA agent had a hand held metal detector and was also attempting to console her. The agent was going to check her footwear for the dangerous materials. A TSA supervisor stood over the three looking impatient and unmoved by the sight. Other members of the family stood around waiting and hoping that this would end soon. I could tell they were on there way to Orlando and Disney World for a family vacation. (It was really obvious by their choice of wardrobe.) Eventually, the footwear were checked and the girl crawled into her mother's arms and stayed their until boarding the plane. Okay, so what's the big deal? Most travelers have seen this sort of thing before, right? (I have on two other occasions.)
1) The footwear in question were sandals -- brand new, in fact. The soles were not wore at all. They were purchased, no doubt, in preparation for the trip. The foam sole of sandal was no more than 1/2 inch thick, seamless and unmodified. The problem was clearly the metal clasp set off the detector. There was no legitimate reason to wand the sandals. All of this was obvious to me as I passed them at a distance of ten feet. The agent was six inches away from the sandals and could have drawn the same conclusion.
2) The girl was five. Enough said.
3) If we ignore #2, behavioral profiling would have said skip this one. She's on vacation and clearly not a threat nor suspicious in any way. The only thing suspicious about the family was her older brother and he got through. Move on.
These scenes are harmful. We are training our youth to live in a police state. It has happened gradually and the government will only increase the level of intrusive searches. That's not the America I know and love.
I, myself, cannot use the self-service terminals at the check-in counters anymore. I have a name similar to someone on a list somewhere. What list? I don't know. I am under some surveillance? I don't know. Can I find out? Not easily. That's classified.
Thankfully, I don't travel very often anymore. I hate it.
I am not a fan of the TSA or the DHS.
February 3, 2008 1:34 PM
Is there a reason the "shoes" discussion was taken off the main page at
http://www.tsa.gov/blog/index.shtm
??
February 3, 2008 7:12 PM
I have several issues with the shoe thing.
1) I fly twice a week. What is this 'small percentage' of a chance of catching athlete's foot? What about OTHER foot diseases?
2) I'm a woman. I usually don't wear socks because I wear pumps. So my actual feet touch the ground. Think about that.
3) I hate putting my DESIGNER shoes through the checkpoint. Often times my stuff goes through before me. I worry that someone will steal it on the other side. (I actually worry about this with my purse a lot too.) No one is guarding my stuff at the other end!
February 3, 2008 9:38 PM
How about this? Once while traveling, I was asked if I'd like to remove my shoes. I asked if it was required, and was told no. I then replied that, no, I would prefer not to remove my shoes and stepped towards the metal detector. The same TSA agent steps in front of me and stops me to tell me that I need to remove my shoes. I let her know that she just gave me the choice not 10 seconds earlier. But it came down to this: It was x-mas time, there was a huge line behind me, my wife and kid were already on the other side of the metal detector, and the voice in my head said "Do you want to get on that plane or not?". So I removed my shoes, only because I needed to go.
February 3, 2008 10:28 PM
First, thanks for opening a conversation. I'm sure you're a bit overwhelmed by the negative responses, but ultimately it's good to at least know what people are thinking, though it may become a PR problem if you plan on not actually making any changes based on it :)
Second, I was offended that you posted the link to the shoes as an 'example'. Reading further on the 'about removing shoes' page, I realised it is a SIMULATED image - you guys made up this example! Clearly, we'd be happier with real-life examples, and any sort of info about statistics of how often this really happens.
Third, if the posters here are clever enough to invent bombs that could get through the shoe check, clearly a bad-guy(tm) would be able to do so. Is it useful for me to list my creative ideas for bomb-smuggling? Somehow I'm worried that it'll promote strip searches/etc, (or worse yet that you'll pay undue attention to me for my sense of creativity) so I just keep my mouth shut...
Excellent job with the site, and I look forward to checking for new posts, etc, regularly. I particularly would love to see the threat level decrease eventually...
February 3, 2008 11:32 PM
"I personally discovered a razor blade hidden under the insold of a passenger's sneakers. This item was found via x-ray screening."
Please explain to us how that razor blade could be a threat to the aircraft in light of all the other objects pax carry on board that can do far more damage?
February 4, 2008 8:55 AM
Anonymous said...
In response to tso tom:
Tom, presumably if a terrorist hid a knife or razor blade in their shoes this would be detectable by the magnatron without removing our shoes. I was willing to let you slide on most of your statement, but this:
"... Cocaine has been discovered as ell as marijuana, and other drugs."
IS COMPLETELY INSANE! Are you implying that the flying public is at risk because someone might have some coke or pot in their shoes? OR are you implying that the TSA is using this security theater to expand the government's drug war into airport security lines? Perhaps they should also examine the contents of any paperwork or laptop records to make sure there are no tax cheats as well?
February 2, 2008 3:38 AM
***********************************
Dear anonymous;
you have the luxury of addressing me personally, but you choose to remain anonymous. That's okay, lets address your concerns:
First of all, razor blades MAY be detectable by magnatron without removing footwear, however x-ray screening is the best method to discover something inside someone's shoes. Secondly, would you want someone doing drugs on your flight, with the potential of becoming violent in the middle of the flight? I know I wouldn't. It has nothing to do with the war on drug, or the war on anything, it has to do with common sense, x-ray screening is REQUIRED of all footwaear because this is the BEST method of discovering prohibited items.
February 4, 2008 9:45 AM
In response to: "if the floor isn't moist then the possibility is, "extremely small to remote" to contract athlete's foot."
Yeah, because no one standing in line at the air port has sweaty feet. No one spills anything ever... and there is never any snow/slush brought in from outside on people's boots because airports never operate in the snow. sarcasm). -- Floors get wet. TSA is not doing enough to make sure the floors they are responsible for people walking across are clean and disinfected. Period.
I wear the thinnest sandals I can find to travel and they still insist that I take them off and run them through the x-ray. How about providing recyclable thin cloth boots to put on instead of making us tread on the floor.
Okay, so there might be something hidden in an adult's shoe... What do you expect to find in a baby's shoe? Why are infants subject to this shoe removal process? Unless you can find velcro shoes in the right size, infant shoes are harder to get on and off than your own (at least for me with my large hands).
I just wish the TSA could show some common sense when it comes to dealing with people travelling with infants. We are going to be travelling with strollers... unless you want to carry our 21lb 7 month old for us. We are going to need to carry formula, and HEY: We need a bottle of water in order to make that formula...and not for $4 a bottle either.
February 4, 2008 10:24 AM
You say a study was done? Well the floors are wet. People bring in snow and rain ontheir shoes. Their feet sweat. They spill things.Some airports have carpets other bare floors. Tell the Board of Health you test someones dirty shoes with your explosives machines then use the same cloth on our purse straps and luggage handles
February 4, 2008 10:40 AM
The thing that I find unfathomable is that we're supposed to be this "superpower" and yet our security system @ the airports is so ANCIENT!!!!!!!!!
Isn't there technology we can implement @ the airports where it's not necessary for us to feel like we're visiting the proctologist when we fly?
Ah yeah and the people that work at the airports? Are you guys sure you're not hiring dungeon masters who used to beat up people for a living?
WHENEVER I can and my business trip is drivable I'd rather drive now than going through all the grief and aggravation.
Oh let's not forget the airline personnel who are habitually nasty too!
So lovely to be flying e?
February 4, 2008 11:32 AM
As we would expect, none of the TSA rhetoric and/or responses have addressed the simple, basic question of the efficacy of removing shoes as a security measure.
If you can't show us how many bombs have been prevented by this measure, it is nothing more than security theater. Said plainly, either put up, or shut up.
And stop insulting us by showing how contraband can be smuggled in shoes, we're talking security here, not illegal drugs.
February 4, 2008 11:39 AM
I am an officer at a Midwestern Airport and we had a passenger with wires in her slippers. No, it was not a bomb but questionable. I choose floors instead of carpets and have met many passengers who are prepared and carry booties in which they dispose of after screening is complete. I have to remove my shoes when I travel and find it goes by much quicker when I know the rules. Yes I would prefer simplicity and to trust everyone but today's society does not afford us that luxury.Here is my favorite question, "Do I look like a terrorist?" When someone knows a definite answer maybe that would make the process easier.
February 4, 2008 12:29 PM
I am so tired of hearing people complain about the TSA procedures in Airports. Can't you people figure out that with just a little planning on your part, the process could be streamlined. SHOES: wear a pair of shoes that slip on, no laces to tie. Foot fungus...wear socks. MT your pockets before you get in line. This is not Rocket Science. You people would B__ch if your ice cream was cold.
February 4, 2008 1:06 PM
I watched a sweet elderly woman have to give up her GEL Sole inserts from her shoes in TLH...come on, they are actually solid gel, as in soft rubber. She was VERY upset, they costs her over $20 and she really needed them to alleviate her arthritic feet. This has gone too far!!!
BTW, I've traveled all over the country and TLH is the worst, slowest most unorganized group I've ever seen!!
February 4, 2008 1:26 PM
Here's an idea: If it's not unsafe for people to walk around the checkpoint barefoot, then the TSA personnel should lead the way. They should be prohibited from wearing any footwear while at the checkpoint.
Oh, that's right: they're above the law, so they can do whatever they darned well want.
February 4, 2008 2:23 PM
Why does the TSA engage in magical thinking?
A person used shoes to smuggle something on board...hence shoes are dangerous?
You HAVE heard of drug mules who have used their body cavities to smuggle pounds and pounds of contraband on board since the 70s, right?
What if the next terrorist has a green carry on...are we going to ban all green carry ons?
In short: Shoes don't kill people, terrorists do. So focus on finding the terrorists (this is typically done through infiltration, good police work and confidential informants) instead of obsessing about an article of clothing that is just as good (or bad) of a smuggling device as is my underwear.
February 4, 2008 3:11 PM
I have no problem removing my shoes and putting them back on, but I need a place to sit down to do it! I've been disabled for many years and I walk with a cane, so I can't do the on/off while I'm standing. I've traveled through many airports and I've never found one which has chairs before the screening area where one can sit and take off shoes. Please, please, please help us (the passengers) help you (the TSA). Please give us about five or six chairs BEFORE each screening location so we can take off our shoes easily and comfortably and be ready to be screened. Thanks!!
February 4, 2008 3:27 PM
TSA spends over $6 billion a year, an amount I'm sure will increase over time as the bureaucracy grows its tentacles. As a taxpaying traveler I'm not the least bit impressed by the strange circuses you've created at airports where adults are treated like children, and children are often screened as adults.
At ATL I observed TSA "officers" laughing as they tossed empty, dirty containers in front of passengers so they could take off their shoes. The fact that these guys found the process amusing is bad enough, fine, let them laugh about it after work. But they thought it was acceptable to display their contempt publicly, what does that say about TSA management?
February 4, 2008 4:53 PM
I work for TSA and I believe I can answer most of the questions on this forum. It's easy to question everything you don't understand. But let me tell you, there is a reason for these security procedures you are all complaining about.
#1. The Shoes issue
IED's in shoes are a very serious issue. I have seen videos of explosives hidden in the smallest of things with enough power to blow a hole in the side of an airplane. That is why it is necessary that we screen all shoes. And, it is very easy to notice a bomb in a shoe on an x-ray image to those of you thinking it's pointless to x-ray your shoes. I think taking your shoes off is a very small price to pay for everyone's safety. Even if we don't come across shoe bombs at all, it can act as a deterrant to terrorists.
#2. Why don't pilots take off their shoes?
This is the silliest question I have ever heard. These people are FLYING the plane. Does it really matter what is in their shoes? If they wanted to do anything, they could just take the plane down.
#3. I have a medical condition. I can't take my shoes off. This is ridiculous....
All you have to do is tell us you absolutely cannot take off your shoes for a valid medical condition and we can screen you with your shoes on. You should some kind of doctors note prepared before hand.
#4. The floors are disgusting. Germs, germs, germs.
You know what the rules are beforehand. Wear socks!! Do you complain when you go to your friend's house and they ask you to take your shoes off?? You walk in your socks there. You can wear them at the airport.
#5. It's hard for me to take my shoes off. Is there a place to sit?
I don't know about other airports but the one I work at has chairs available before the metal detector and after. Someone should find you a place to sit if you request it.
#6. I need assistance. It's hard to take everything off by myself.
Everybody has the opportunity to have assistance throughout the ENTIRE screening process. In fact, all the way to your airplane. When you check in at your airline, let them know that you need assistance and they will send someone to help you with everything. They will walk/wheel you to security, help you take your shoes off, put your belongings on the x-ray belt, and take you to your plane. JUST ASK!!
#7. This is just a security show.
It is not. We are all there training every month to keep you safe. I have spent countless hours looking at X-ray images and learning to identify the never ending array of threats. We have fake bombs run on us every day to help us detect them. To hear someone say that it's all an act or for show is degrading to all the countless learning we have spent trying to keep you safe.
Summary,
I just think everyone likes to stand back while they are waiting in line and be critics. You all seem to act like you know everything about security. But you don't. There are valid reason's for everything we do and it doesn't make sense mostly because it inconviences you. If we just let shoes go through and a bomb was snuck on a plane, all of these critics would be the first ones to say TSA should have done more.
And here's the thing....
You know you're not a terrorist, but we don't. We have no idea who all of the passenger's are or if they are terrorists. That is why we screen everyone regardless of race, age, or gender.
Just be conscious that even though our policies don't make sense to you, there are reasons for them you probably have not thought of.
Until there is adequate and safe technology to screen shoes, we'll just all have to go through the inconvience of removing them.
February 4, 2008 8:26 PM
Dear TSO Tom,
Saying that we need to x-ray all shoes in order to find razor blades so people don't do drugs on the flight and become violent is so silly that I had to laugh.
People are allowed to bring razors on flights anyway, and they can bring pills and even get alcohol on their flights and become as violent as they want.
If you think it's your job to find drugs so you can protect passengers from violent behavior on flights, what is your level of training about drugs? Do you check people's prescriptions to see if they are valid? What do you do about the booze served in first class?
Judged by the highly publicized failures of your agency on finding test bombs, maybe the x-ray isn't the best way to detect explosives.
February 4, 2008 10:56 PM
You say a study was done? Well the floors are wet. People bring in snow and rain on their shoes. Their feet sweat. They spill things.Some airports have carpets others bare floors. Tell the Board of Health you test someones dirty shoes with your explosives machines then use the same cloth on our purse straps and luggage handles.
February 5, 2008 1:25 AM
commenting on what tso tom said...
.......So lets talk about how shoes may pose a threat to air travelers, we're not just talking about explosives, other things can be hidden inside shoes as well..razor blades for instance. A razor blade in someone's shoe could pose a risk...however small you think it might be....to you and or other passengers on an airplane.....
and so can the stylus from my pda, grandma's knitting needles, my mont blanc pen and not to mention screwdrivers which the tsa also allows thru security.
the x-ray machine doesn't and cannot check for explosives yet so it's primary purpose is to look from "dangerous items" yet the tsa allows the aforementioned items thru security-just doesn't make sense does it
February 5, 2008 5:18 PM
It is true that the floors are sometimes wet and may be dirty at many airports.I respectfully bring forward that many stay at hotels,use gym rooms,try on shoes at the store,use public pools and beaches and the list could go on. Where are your guarantees that these areas are clean? Maybe we could throw sand on the floor and pretend we are at the beach but I believe that no matter where you are or who you are you find a way to act responsible and if you feel that removing your shoes will be harmful to you,bring disposable socks and slip on shoes.We adjust everywhere else why is airport security different?
February 6, 2008 5:19 AM
Dear TSA
Do ask yourself from time to time why Asian and European airports don't require shoe carnival?
And especially why Israely don't do this?
Ah yes, because they actually search for explosives and don't have to come up with ridiculous excuses.
Are they less safe? I clearly say NO. You have no reason to specifically scan shoes. It's not for explosives, as there are much better places to hide them so you won't find them, as your own tests proves. And sharp objects are not found anyway or given to every pax during flight. I guess one of the most dangerous weapon is a broken glass bottle. No one has to smuggle something on the plane, you get everything there.
Only thing I can agree with is that germs are not a mayor problem, albeit it's still disgusting.
Thanks
February 6, 2008 9:33 AM
i travelled last month with my handicapped daughter. Leaving GSP airport the TSA people not only had a chair for my daughter to sit down on for me to take off her shoes but they assisted me on through. Hell was trying to get through security at Fort Lauderdale airport. People were allowed to physically push in front of us since we were too slow .My daughter uses a cane and I had to hold up the line repeatedly asking for a different cane before I would let go of her. After that I had to hold her up to get her to a chair in another area in order to put her shoes back on. It was a disgrace to see how disrespectful they were to the handicapped.
February 6, 2008 10:11 AM
Is shoes are such a threat, why do so few other countries around the world force people to remove them? In Europe, the only country I know that requires this anywhere is the UK, which has a history of slavishly following the US's lead on these things anyway.
Are all the other countries just ignoring the "significant" threats you keep going on about? Do they have better scanners that don't require shoes to be removed? Or have they just made a decision that the inconvenience and humiliation for passengers is a bigger concern than the generally incredibly small risk of terrorism?
February 6, 2008 11:49 AM
Here's an idea: On the way to get my ticket checked and items x-rayed. Give me a cart with two bins on it and as I walk through the line with 100 people in front of me I'll remove items and place them in the bin so when i get to the X-ray machine I am ready to just walk through. The biggest hold up is at the x-ray machine, every thing comes to a stand still because so many people can't disrobe fast enough.
February 6, 2008 2:22 PM
Seems to me, in reading through different sections of this blog, that when the TSA responds it is in the same manner with which they treat you at the airport - arrogance and superiority. Why do I feel like I'm getting a "talking down to"? The majority of this is all about controlling us and instilling fear. Period.
February 6, 2008 4:25 PM
Last spring I traveled between the US and Israel, also took a domestic Israeli flight. At Israel's Ben Gurion Airport, with arguably the best security in the world, they do NOT screen shoes, nor liquids (except on flights to the US).
February 7, 2008 12:24 AM
Yeah, I've got to agree with other posters here. The "official" TSA response in the comments it condescending and hostile. If the TSA is going to provide a public forum like this, the must not use it to give a lecture on why we're wrong.
And I don't want to take my shoes off anymore. We don't have to do it in other parts of the world. The TSA may think this means they're doing their job better than in other countries. But I think it makes the TSA look bad. Why screen for something the rest of the world doesn't consider a threat?
February 7, 2008 12:22 PM
Hey TSA. Please address my concerns in my second post.
February 7, 2008 2:24 PM
Why can't TSA use a fluoroscope to check shoes? That way we can keep our shoes on.
February 7, 2008 3:33 PM
I would simply like to see some chairs before the checkpoints to take my shoes off safely. I have difficulty bending over and reaching my shoe laces like many seasoned citizens. I would guess that 90% of airports I use do not have seats before the checkpoint while 90% have seats after. When I ask airport personnel they say "See the TSA" and the TSA folks say "Talk to airport management". My home airport LAS.
February 7, 2008 7:35 PM
Why can't USA security check points be like Heathrow, where shoe screening is done separately from personal possessions and body screening? There is a separate screening area with ample seating, after one has gone through the body and personal possessions screening. Make so much sense.
February 7, 2008 11:19 PM
"In 1986, Anne-Marie Murphy, a pregnant, 32-year-old Irish woman, was on her way to board a London flight to Israel. After passing through several security checks, she was stopped for a targeted conversation by Israeli security because she stuck out...pregnant women do not often travel long distances alone. Authorities became more interested in her because of the evasive answers she gave. Turns out, she had a bomb in her carry-on bag. Could you imagine the backlash for questioning a pregnant woman traveling in the US?"
No. I could not imagine the backlash that would be had from questioning a pregnant woman carrying a bomb in her carry-on luggage. Will you people read what you write? This is exactly why the TSA should take a page from the Israeli airport security. They had the wherewithal to perceive a potential threat, and deal with it. It is possible to have the same level of competence without the negative aspects that you spoke of. The next time you try to make a point, use a story that supports your argument. This is a basic, dare I say common sense, concept when debating an issue.
February 8, 2008 1:02 AM
People, would you rather take off your shoes or blow up in mid air?
What if that one nuttball makes it through? Whether it be in flip flops or army boots...that one psycho makes it through...and you will be a human firecracker.
Yes, it is a pain and I do hate it...but when you are getting dressed you know you are flying....it's not like you just happen to find yourself in the airport boarding a plane. Plan to wear a pair of slip on athletic shoes...I would suggest Vans or the slip on Converse..Target makes a great cheap knock-off. Wear a pair of socks, bring an extra pair or two. When you take off your shoes, leave the socks on. When you go to put your shoes back on, throw the dirty pair of socks away, put on the new, and put your shoes back on. This should take care of any fungus problems, although it is no more dirty than walking around on a pool deck at a water park. Personally, I would walk around naked if it means my airplane is more likely to actually stay in the sky. Just because you don't see these people (read terrorists...read sickos who want to blow you up) doesn't mean they aren't out there. Take a look at the big picture!
February 8, 2008 2:24 AM
I would just like to say that I think you are headed in the right direction with the security checks. Considering the 100's of millions of passengers screened i have yet to die in an explosion. I have recently retired after 21 years in the US Army , with two and a half years spent in the bowels of hell that is Iraq. I am now back as a civilian. I would just like to tell the american public that the reson why the TSA checks everyone is that terrorists will use anyone. I have seen 10 year girls blow them selves up with a smile on their face. I have even seen old women that appear to be white used this way too. Recently two severely retarded women were used to blow up a pet market in baghdad with no knowledge of what they were doing.
Air travel is a priveledge not a right. If you want to make it smoother then stop complaining and trying to fight the system and prepare yourself accordingly. Or you can take a train or a ship or drive. Your choice.
Thanks for rtying to improve things TSA. And thanks for a perfect record of nobody taking over or blowing up a plane since 9/11.
I know why american blood is spilled ....And I believe. Do you?
February 8, 2008 7:07 AM
This policy is typical of the whole "attacking the straw man" approach that the TSA takes.
Someone tries to blow up a plane with a shoe bomb, so now you have to take off your shoes.
Oh, now somebody tried a liquid bomb, so now we're going to take away your shampoo.
I hope to god that nobody ever tries to blow up a plane with some sort of explosive-laden underwear.
February 8, 2008 7:18 AM
I'm sure its been posted here before, but I would like to also comment on the fact that there needs to CHAIRS or BENCHES if people are required to remove their shoes! I'm young, and I can easily remove and replace my shoes while standing up, but my elderly parents NEED TO SIT DOWN . . . and not just to put the shoes back on, but to take them off in the first place. PLEASE, if removing shoes does become absoluetly mandatory in all airports, then please make sure that there are benches, and PLENTY OF THEM, at both ends of the security pass through! Especially for the elderly! And . . . a pet peeve: TSA agents ask us to remove absolutely everything from our pockets, etc, but then nag at you "Keep moving!" when you are trying to retrieve your items. PROVIDE ASSISTANCE and dont just stand there and yammer at us!
February 8, 2008 9:40 AM
Just wait until the terrorists realize that you can use the same coating for gel caps to coat an explosive, swallow it, stand by the external wall of the jet liner. Wait for the gel cap to be dissolved by stomach acids...and *blamo*
Shortly after Richard Reid 2.0 makes such an attempt, the TSA will wisely implement stomach pumping of all passengers before boarding.
***
Oh, as for Richard Reid, he should be mandated upon his release to forever walk in socks. Not shoes, not barefeet - but socks. Until he has walked each step every passenger has had to walk in socks thanks to his actions.
I think that would be truly punishment. Some might call it cruel and unusual. So what...he's forced cruel and unusual airport screenings on all of us passengers.
February 8, 2008 10:33 AM
Quote: People, would you rather take off your shoes or blow up in mid air?
What if that one nuttball makes it through? Whether it be in flip flops or army boots...that one psycho makes it through...and you will be a human firecracker.
I'd rather not have either.
The x-ray doesn't detect explosives. The puffers do. So why am I asked to remove my shoes to send thru the x-ray to go thru the puffer.
X-raying shoes is just a manifestation of security theater to make the masses feel safe when it arguably makes people less safe.
I think a next to nonexistent chance (if it's even that high) does not merit the expense and time wasted in removing shoes.
I have a greater chance of dying in my car on the way to the airport than I do from a shoe bomb. Yet I don't see people advocating taking cars off the road or other stupid measures to mitigate that risk.
Are you afraid to leave the house because you might be robbed, raped, or killed that day? Hey, it could happen. There's a chance.
It's called risk management. TSA doesn't do it. The risk needs to justify the expense. Shoe removal doesn't do it ... especially when there are other much more effective means of detecting explosives that TSA chooses to ignore.
February 8, 2008 11:21 AM
My son traveled to Israel on El Al during his 2007 winter break from college. He left and returned to the US from JFK. I consider El Al to be the most secure airline in the world. They never asked him, or anyone else in his tour group, to remove his shoes. He only had to do that when flying on domestic carriers in the US.
If it's good enough for the most secure airline in the world not to require passengers to take off their shoes, surely it can be good enough for passengers flying in the US?
February 8, 2008 11:26 AM
Consistency needs to be a priority, I feel like it makes us look incompetent if every airport handles security their own way. I don't mind either way (shoes off/on) I would just like to know what to expect before I walk into any American airport.
February 8, 2008 11:58 AM
I have had severe damage to both of my legs. I am able to walk independently. There was quite a bit of nerve damages. So each time when I have to go thru the check point and take off my shoes, I tend to lose my balance. Both time I touched the side of the detector and set off the alarm. The staff was impatient and barked for me to go thru without touching. It certainly would help if a sign can be posted about touching the detector. The staff can also have some sensitivity training and allow a little more time for the traveler. Often times there was not enough chairs to allow someone to sit down and put his or shoes back on.
February 8, 2008 12:34 PM
A few years ago I took a trip to Korea. When going through security at Seoul's international airport on the way back out, they had us remove our shoes (before it was mandatory in the US).
they did two things which I think simplified matters:
1) they provided temporary plastic/rubber sandals to wear while your shoes were off. This sort of temporary sandal is common in asian cultures.
2) there was a placard showing a cross-sectional diagram of a shoe bomb making it clear what sort of threat they were concerned about.
February 8, 2008 2:04 PM
"The x-ray doesn't detect explosives"
Please don't comment on something if you don't know what you are talking about!
February 8, 2008 2:53 PM
Quick observation - while all passengers are required to remove their shoes, airport employees are not which completely defeats the purpose. If TSA is going to position shoe screening as a method to avoid IED coming into a secure area, then ALL shoes need to be screened, including those working in the shops and restaurants behind security. The employees (regardless of any pre-screening) need to be reviewed as an equal security risk each time they pass security.
February 8, 2008 2:53 PM
And besides the clumsy Richard Reid who probably couldn't even have tied his own shoes by himself, tell us how many explosive or life-threatening shoes you have found with this screening?
Since we've never heard of it, it's either none, or "classified", which means "none" otherwise you would have bragged all around about how your policies work so well.
Your Alaska shoes don't look very frightening.
February 8, 2008 3:44 PM
To the person concerned about germs in the airport... If you are so concerned about germs, maybe you shouldn't leave your house.. I have news for you.. anywhere and everywhere you go, you are surrounded by germs at any one time. Did you know that 1 single toilet in a public restroom alone carries millions of germs.. Theres something to think about. and what happens when you flush..?? all those gems get sent up in the air.... After that little consideration, I think the airport floor is the least of your worries...
February 8, 2008 4:30 PM
As a retired scientist I find the shoe
exercise illogical.
(1) Show me several RIGOROUS scientific
peer reviewed studies that show that
it's safe for people to remove their
shoes.
(2) Why do TSA agents wear sterile
gloves? Afraid to handle the bins?
Other peoples affects?
Again, a rigorous scientifc study
would help.
Science and logic are ruthless.
I find the TSA's opinions on a lot
of matters to be just that. Opinion.
Not fact
February 8, 2008 5:37 PM
Well...it's nice to see, from the pictures provided, that the terrorists won't be getting through with shoe bombs. It still doesn't explain why sanitary conditions aren't often provided. And, I, as well as others, do not feel comfortable with it being "just as safe as walking around in a gym or locker room without shoes on." You can lay the blame on the janitorial staff all you want, but ultimately, it should fall to the TSA to provide sanitary conditions for what it has deemed necessary.
February 8, 2008 7:29 PM
I understand that people may be able to hide explosives in shoes.
What I don't understand is why I was forced to remove my son's shoes while going through BWI security last month.
His is 6 MONTHS OLD. His shoes are tiny soft paper-thin pieces leather. I can barely fit his feet into them, let alone hide anything.
"You'll have to go through again" said the screener. "Remove the shoes." When I asked him if he was serious all he could say was "All footwear."
Traveling with an infant is hard enough. You people make everything worse.
I think employees at TSA headquarters should have to go through a full airport security screening every time they enter their place of work. Pretty soon we'd notice a reduction in insane half-baked self-justifying policies.
February 9, 2008 12:51 AM
I understand the reasoning for you to require us to remove our shoes for x-ray and am fully supportive of that idea. For proper hygiene issues, could you please make sure that there are different bins for shoes? I hate to see my shoes and other personal items being put in the same bin.. Look at this scenerio:
1.) I, a male visit the restroom (urinal which is usually very dirty) right before I go to the security.
2.) Being that I was using the urinal, I had stepped on things that are not so healthy.
3.) Now at the security checkpoint, I take my shoes off and put it in the bin along with my jacket.
Can you see that germs are getting passed as the bins will be always reused without any cleaning? I hope you guys get the point and get a seperate bins for shoes.
February 9, 2008 3:28 PM
For those who wonder why we have infants and young chidren remove shoes, remember that those who will blow up a plane full of innocent passengers do not care that it's a child or infant. Just last week 2 downs syndrome women were used by bombers with remote detonators. No we don't think all parents are terrorists willing to use children, but we don't know who the terrorists are.
TSA screener
February 9, 2008 4:41 PM
You require infants and children to remove shoes? Not at any screening point I've ever been at. I was going to post and complain that children should not get passed over. I don't think certain terrorists would balk at using children as bombs.
February 9, 2008 6:50 PM
Ah, one of these days...
I WILL show up at the IAD TSA checkpoint in a flowing gown, wearing NO underwired bra and as unshod as Isadora Duncan.
Nothing to screen
Nothing to declare
Nothing to check.
Just not in February when I fly to MSP!
February 9, 2008 7:51 PM
Removing one's shoes is degrading and in some cases a difficult requirement with which to comply. Due to my rheumatoid arthritis I have deformities in my feet and can only walk well when wearing special shoes. Nevertheless each time I travel from a U.S. airport I am forced to remove these and endure a painful walk barefoot across the security area. Why can't full body scanners be implemented so that people do not have to choose between putting up with this awful circumstance or giving up travel altogether? Certainly we possess the technology with which to improve this procedure.
FYI, travelers passing through European airports are not subjected to this measure. Last year I flew from Barajas airport in Madrid to Leonardo da Vinci airport in Rome, each of which has sustained terrorist attacks in the past. I was alone at the security counter, and being uncertain of their requirements, I asked the security officer if I should take off my shoes. He looked at me as if I had lost my mind and quickly replied, "no, no, no!" Thank goodness for European civility!
February 9, 2008 11:28 PM
What a great idea TSA...and might I say, thank you for the work you have done so far. Its a thankless job and from reading these comments, most people dont get that.
Now, I have traveled around Europe and have had to take my shoes off in both Germany and Italy, so you can see that the shoe policy is just as inconsistent in Europe as it is in the States. Dont give credit where it is not due.
I dont have a problem with having a full screening, taking my shoes off or opening my luggage for you to rummage around in. If I am not hiding anything, then why do I care? My rights? Hogwash...plenty of people in the world have seen dirty underwear..get over it.
I hate to use the cliche but the TSA does have to be right every single time and the bad guys only have to be right once. With those kind of odds, I am amazed we arent walking through naked. The days where we were lax and had 'freedom' are gone...that ended 7 years ago. It is what it is. Do we need to go overboard--absolutely not. But to gripe about taking your shoes off is just petty. I personally would rather get fungus on my feet than die, but thats just me. Take some socks or be observant and use the blue footies that are provided at most airports nowadays.
Yes, I would like the TSA to be more friendly as I pass through but when is the last time you dealt with a friendly government worker? Customer service has been long lacking in that genre and I dont expect a turnaround anytime soon. On the other hand, they have a crappy job dealing with complaints all day about people taking their shoes off...I wouldn't be happy either.
For those of you worried about walking on the bare floor or having your laptop touch the bottom of your shoes on the conveyor belt, then you might as well just stay home. How clean do you think is the seat on the plane you are about to get on (last year I saw a woman pee in her seat because she was so drunk and couldnt get up to the bathroom). Or the bathroom..eewwwww? And by the way, there are often more germs on your own cell phone than on a toilet seat, so stop being so dramatic. If you have a health issue, then it is your responsibility to take care of it, not the TSA's.
Finally, I do agree that a place to sit afterwards to put the shoes on would be great. Its just common sense.
February 10, 2008 9:54 AM
Why can't you make up your minds about whether the shoes go into a tub or directly on the belt? (I would prefer directly on the belt. The next person to put his laptop in that tub doesn't want it to touch the crap from your shoes.) Going through security in DIA last week, the tubs had liners with the outline of a pair of shoes and a clever slogan about putting your shoes there. So I did, only to be scolded by a TSA staffer, who removed them from the tub and somewhat violently threw them into the scanner.
February 10, 2008 10:10 AM
Could someone please explain why the TSA can't be bothered to put down rugs in the shoes-off area at Newark Airport? There are rugs (and booties) at Tampa, where the floors are considerably warmer this time of year. Try going through that security line in you socks sometime, and you'll see what I mean.
February 10, 2008 11:17 AM
I am an "infrequent air flyer" so the TSA requirements don't affect me as much as some of you, I will admit. But I have to say that I think many people aren't happy unless they have something to complain about. I was one of those people who wouldn't remove my shoes unless it was required and got additional searches because of it. My choice. I used to say that if you required it for security concerns, then make it mandatory and I would do it with no complaint. That does not mean I enjoy removing my sneakers/shoes at the checkpoint but it really isn't that big a deal.
As for the complaints that it is unhealthy, just watch how many men wash their hands after using the facilities at ANY public men's rooms. I would guess it is less than 20%. Those people are touching everything you touch on a plane. How many of you carry disinfectant wipes and wipe everything down that you touch?
As to the employees being more friendly, I wish all people who deal with the public could be more friendly. They deal with people who are for the most part not happy to see them. I recently attended the Superbowl and went through security to get in the stadium. I listened to the instructions and complied quickly. The screeners apologized for the inconvenience and I told them there was no need to apologize for trying to keep me and the 70-80,000 other people inside the stadium safe. I thanked them and they were genuinely surprised at the thanks.
I agree that they need to have enough seats to allow folks an area to put their stuff back together, shoes and all. I also agree that they should have a clearly marked process to provide feedback...a "How are we doing?" type card available at screening. But I know how nasty people will be and the supervisors will have to take the comments with a grain of salt. Don't write out a comment because someone didn't smile enough for you or didn't think your kid was so cute etc.
Because we have so many freedoms and our country is so open, we are vulnerable to terrorist attacks. That's life. A little inconvenience when we board an airplane is a small price to pay.
TSA, keep working on improving communications between your people at the gates and the bosses in DC. I will do my part by making sure I am wearing clean socks and putting baby powder on my feet before I fly.
February 10, 2008 12:23 PM
My whole problem is this. Why is 100% of the AMERICAN population being punished by someone not from this country. Having people take off their shoes is the silliest way to make us safer, than I have ever heard. Here's a better way, have a FAA issued ID, that performs background checks on a regular basis, with these IDs, you can carry liquids and wear your shoes. 99.3% of us have nothing to hide...the other .7% are in jail.
February 10, 2008 1:30 PM
IMHO, removing shoes is a ridiculous waste of time, an aggravation and generally carried out very clumsily (no chairs) and rudely ("move along, hurry, stop holding up the line") by the TSA.
That being said, I feel compelled to really challenge the necessity to remove flip-flops. A recent poster said if you think it's too dirty, stay home. Well, it goes beyond "icky" for some of us.
I am immunosuppresed. I take calaculated risks all the time of where, when and to what I will expose myself, from a handshake to where I sit. But, I work, live a life and have to fly.
I have to wear flip-flops because I cannot risk a puncture wound to my feet, which have very tender skin. It makes no sense to make me remove my flip flops. I'm willing to do that if I can sit with my feet not touching anything, have the flip flops scanned, returned to me to put on, and then walk through. If I get a puncture wound, I could die. It's that simple. Last year, I could wear flip-flops. I'm now told that I can't.
Also, I need to carry all my meds and OTC products with me because I can't risk being separated from them. Lately, I haven't known anyone who hasn't been delayed, had to stay somewhere overnight and/or did not arrive with their checked luggage. I have multiple risks from not having my medications/OTC products (all physician recommended, even if it looks like "hair conditioner"). In fact, the biggest risk to me would be sudden cessation of some products. I could die. It's that simple. That's why I need everything on my person. This wasn't a problem until the ridiculous limitation on liquids.
FYI, I've already written the TSA very nicely, asking what I need to do to comply with the exceptions I require (which includes the need for inspecting agents to change their gloves to inspect me or the contents of my luggage. The answer back was essentially, "meds are ok in their original containers (I take 20 pills a day and have 10 topical oinments; bringing all of that in original containers is not the least bit practical), declare 'em" and didn't answer my questions. So I then had to write to my Congressional representative to ask the same questions for me.
This is only one opinion, but I don't believe that the current TSA procedures make anyone the least bit safer. I find the entire process humiliating, degrading and as if I'm being marched to the chambers by rude people who are assuming that everyone is a criminal.
So, if the TSA is interested in being customer-friendly, you would
1. answer my questions the first time -- and how do I get answers if the TSA decides not to respond to my Congressional request or do I just get kicked out of the airport when I arrive;
2. treat all customers politely and respectfully;
3. accommodate special needs without a fuss.
Speaking as a chronically ill person who is fighting to live, adding aggravations, hoops and rude treatment to an already assaulted body and mind doesn't meet my metric of customer friendly.
February 10, 2008 3:14 PM
I recently flew. My after-shave cream was in a 4 oz travel bottle, which fit appropriately into my quart plastic bag of liquids. I was told to throw it away. First, I squeezed some of the cream into an extra baggie and then threw the bottle away.
I was then told I couldn't bring on the baggie with the skin cream on. When I asked why, I was told "because we don't know what's in it."
What? I could have carried the skin cream through in a 3 oz bottle. Would anyone know what it was? What is the difference between 2 oz of skin cream in a 3 oz unlabeled bottle and 2 oz of skin cream in a baggie?
February 10, 2008 3:22 PM
Hi, glad to see there is a place for us travelers to offer suggestions. On the topic of shoes. Some of us senior citizens or others need a chair before the security gate to remove our shoes. We are not always because of age or past illness steady on one foot as we remove our shoes. Holding on to the table is not always enough support. We need chairs or a bench such as they have beyond the security gates.
Joan
February 10, 2008 4:21 PM
I realize the importance of securing our airports. But as said so many other times common sense should be part of the whole package. Which leads me to my questions regarding shoes or liquids:
What could be put in a shoe or bottles bigger than 3oz that could not be easily hidden under loose clothing or in a gel filled bra(Which the TSA allows)?
February 10, 2008 10:49 PM
I don't think the show screening is effective as others have said, since it (1) has never caught any problems and (2) is just another huge governmental waste of money that is a ruse to make people think things are safe (3) has no way of detecting seriously deceptive packaging of explosive material.
Further, if you are going to insist on this dumb policy, please provide a place for us to put on our shoes. At the Dallas-Ft.Worth airport TSA agents wont even allow you to lean on the table to put your shoes on. This is ridiculous, unnecessary and humilitating.
February 11, 2008 8:55 AM
Hello. I fly from Orlando to Toronto and back every few months and occasionally trips to other U.S. cities. I really don't mind going through all the security and immigrations. I'm patient and completely understand the reasons behind all the precautions. Although, as a woman, there is one thing that gets on my nerves. And yes, it's about shoes.
Every time I pass through security at any airport, they tell me to put my shoes on the conveyor belt. If I put them in a bin, they tell me to take them out and put them directly on the conveyor belt. You see, some people like to get a little dressed up to fly (business trips, etc.) and this may include women who wear high heels. Now, when they run my high heels across the conveyor belt, the heels of my shoes get caught in the belts and get all ground up, leaving marks and scrapes on the shoes. Some of the time, the agents don't realize right away and continue running the conveyor belt. This really frustrates me seeing that my shoes are not cheap. But, whether your heels cost $50 or $500, this shouldn't be happening.
Is there a way everyone could just put their shoes in the bins? I noticed on the pictures of the wired shoes from Alaska, that they were in a bin, but were still detected. If putting them in a bin is already allowed, could you please inform all of your agents? Thank you for listening.
February 11, 2008 1:58 PM
Thank god there is a place to vent the countless times some overly aggressive agent has barked at our mothers and grandmothers . Now obviously security is important 911 911 911 - The key is to make this feel like more of a meaningful community effort. I don't feel like we are all in this together when I am in US airports. How might a recenly expanded and militarized organiztion manifest a better sense of community with those they serve and are employed by . Courtesy courtesy courtesy. And stop stealing childrens lip gloss for petes sake !
It is clear that a great deal of attention has been put towards a kinda theatre to make us feel safer. I don't think it is working - I wonder what the cost differential would be for say putting an air Martial on every flight verses wasting all our time with this bogus charade .
February 11, 2008 4:35 PM
For all posters who seem to think that "you can never have enough security, so taking off your shoes is A-OK, even if we never catch another shoe bomber"
Since you can never have enough security, I am sure you also do all of the following:
-- Take a fistful of antibiotics every day (just in case somebody sneezes on you)
-- Weld six inch armor plating to your car
-- Wear bulletproof underwear
-- Wear a helmet
-- etc. etc.
Now, since you probably don't do any of these silly things, ask yourself "why?"
You don't take these security measures BECAUSE THEIR COST IS DISPROPORTIONATELY LARGE TO THE EXTRA AMOUNT OF SECURITY DELIVERED BY THEM.
Now, how this relate to taking your shoes off at the airport? Add up 10 minutes of wasted time per passenger for 2,000,000 passengers and you get about 333,333 person hours wasted EVERY DAY. Multiply by the average salary of $17 and you get a direct economic cost of $5.6 MILLION EVERY DAY. Now ask yourself how much actual "safety" this buys you?
Also, is the TSA really assuming that an attacker would reproduce in exact detail a 5-year old plot? Terrorists are typically ruthless, often religiously deluded, but by and large not retarded (with the exception of "shoe bomber" Richard Reid).
February 11, 2008 8:24 PM
I've visited four cities last week, Including Stockholm, Warsaw, Vilnius, London and New York. In the only airport that I removed my shoes was J.F.K. International. I flew from London to New York, in a 777 filled up with north americans. If I were a Terrorist then I will take a Flight from London to the U.S. and that's it. The Show Removal stuff is just to give us a 'false feeling' of secureness. Couldn't a Terrorist in the U.S. even use a digital watch, fill it up with C4 and explode it near a window at the take off? it might cause a fatal loss of pressure at a very low altitude. For certain people who can think, all this security checks are to avoid bad amateur terrorist to do stupid things, but the real danger still there. I think better technology and good profiling should be better than taking one's shoes off.
February 12, 2008 1:16 PM
Post a Comment
Links to this post:
Create a Link
<< Home «Oldest ‹Older 1 – 200 of 333 Newer› Newest»