RESEARCH ACTIVITY PANEL
A WORKING GROUP OF THE 
MONTEREY BAY NATIONAL MARINE SANCTUARY ADVISORY COUNCIL
299 Foam St
Monterey, California  93940 
					Phone          (831) 647-4257
					  Fax          (831) 647-4250
				  Internet       mbnms@igc.apc.org


Monterey Bay National Marine Sanctuary 
Research Activity Panel Meeting Minutes

Ocean View Conference Room, MBA
Monterey, California

Friday, March 17, 1995 - 0900 to 1200 hrs

Minutes taken and transcribed by:
Aaron King, Monterey Bay NMS - RAP Executive Coordinator

Member Attendees

George Boehlert, NMFS, Pac. Fish. Environmental Group
Greg Cailliet, RAP Chair, Moss Landing Marine Labs
Laura Ehret, Naval Post-Graduate School
Steve Eittreim, United States Geological Service
Chris Harrold, Monterey Bay Aquarium
Jim Harvey, Moss Landing Marine Laboratories
Terry Jackson, Monterey Bay National Marine Sanctuary
Debra Johnston, California Department of Fish and Game
Ken Parker, NOAA Ocean Applications Branch
Don Potts, University of California, Santa Cruz
Dennis Powers, Hopkins Marine Station
Bruce Robison, Monterey Bay Aquarium Research Institute
Jan Roletto, Gulf of the Farallones and Cordell Bank NMS
Gary Sharp, CIRIOS
Rick Starr, University of California Sea Grant
Mark Stephenson, California Department of Fish and Game
Les Strnad, California Coastal Commission

Guest Attendees:

Nicole Crane, Hopkins Marine Station
Steve Webster, Monterey Bay Aquarium
Anna Weinstein, Center for Marine Conservation

Members Not Able to Attend:

Andrew DeVogelaere, ESNERR and Foundation
Jim Rote, NOAA/OCRM
Cliff Hoskins, Department of the Interior 
Stephen Mueller, Morro Bay Foundation


Greg Cailliet, RAP Chair, introduced the meeting. 

Quick discussion items:

Introductions - Introductions were made around the 
table.

Approval of the February 17, 1995, Meeting 
Minutes (Cailliet) - Minutes accepted and approved, 
without correction, by unanimous vote.

Report on the SAC meeting (Cailliet) - Topics 
included - A report from the Army on cleanup of Fort Ord 
and its effects on the Sanctuary; A workshop on SAC 
Strategic Planning; Piedras Blancas Elephant Seal 
harassment problems; Means of generating outside funds 
to support Sanctuary Programs; ATOC; A presentation on a 
sustainable plan for Monterey Bay Area; Dredging of Moss 
Landing Harbor.  Terry answered a question about the 
vessel traffic safety study, saying that it was still 
not final.

User Workshop Report (Cailliet) - Greg reported 
that a summary was published on the User Fee workshop 
that was held in Monterey.  Greg reported that, in 
general, the report states that most users do not agree 
with the use of User Fees to support Sanctuaries, but 
prefer other means that utilize voluntary donations.


Symposium on 20 May at UCSC on environmental 
factors and fisheries (Cailliet) - Greg announced 
that the UCSC Regional Studies program is getting off 
the ground with a symposium on May 28 addressing 
environmental changes and marine fisheries, and how 
these affect local social situations.

CERES (Cailliet) - Greg announced his discovery of 
CERES by talking with some CDFG folks up at the San 
Francisco Biodiversity conference he attended recently.  
Gary Sharp discussed CERES more, stating that this was a 
spatial database concentrating on presence or absence of 
species in locations.

Research Coordinator Position Status (Jackson) - 
Terry discussed several options that the Sanctuary 
office is looking at in order to hire a Research 
Coordinator, including several Foundations, the Park 
Service, etc.  Problems include such things as overhead 
expenses, etc.  Terry stated that he was possibly just 
going to put the contract out from his office and deal 
with the process to avoid paying overhead costs, unless 
someone has a better idea or other options.  Greg 
restated the fact that the RAP had previously formed a 
Research Coordinator evaluation subcommittee at the 
previous meeting of George, Gary, Greg and Don.  The 
feeling of the RAP was to make sure this process was 
completed as soon as possible to get the money 
encumbered, and to get the position filled.

NOAA Guide to MBNMS/GFNMS/CBNMS Marine 
Researchers (King) - Aaron stated that four 
institutions have sent back their questionnaires on the 
Research Directory, and encouraged the others to get 
theirs in as soon as possible.  

Permit Report (King) - Aaron Reported that only one 
research permit was pending, the one for the McArthur 
Cruise.

Electronic Communications Update (King) - Aaron 
asked and received permission from the RAP to set up a 
World Wide Web page on the MBNMS Internet Server for the 
RAP with Greg and Terry as his advisor and editor.

Institutional Permit Status (King) - Nothing has 
yet moved on institutional permits due to other high 
priorities at SRD.  Terry did announce however that SRD 
is working to set up a new streamlined method for 
issuing permits.  Jan discussed what she had heard about 
the new system stating that it would probably be a 
tiered system depending upon the level of effect.  Les 
expressed concern that whatever system was incorporated 
shoulds come out as a draft so that the RAP and other 
groups could comment on it before it is put in place.

RAP Binder (King) - Aaron stated that the SAC binder 
was completed, and that he and Scott would be working to 
make up Working Group Addendums to the SAC binder that 
would contain important info on that working group.  The 
Addendum would be retained by the Working Group 
coordinator (e.g. - Aaron for the RAP), and would be 
brought to meetings for reference.

Next Monterey Bay Research Symposium 
(Parker/Starr) - Rick described how he and Ken were 
starting to work with the other working groups and the 
SAC to possibly set up a single Sanctuary Symposium 
event.  It was also stated that the next Symposium would 
concentrated on the results of the Site Characterization 
and "visualization of the Sanctuary."  Dennis stated 
that he would like to see the Symposium held at the same 
time every year so it can be planned on year by year.  
As it is planned now, February 1996 is a target date.  A 
concern was expressed that the Symposium should have a 
poster session, since the 1993 poster session was so 
successful.

Response to RAP Membership Invitation to CSUMB 
(Cailliet) - No response has yet been officially 
received from CSUMB, though Gary stated that it would 
probably be Jim Rote.

DOI Representative (King) - Aaron announced that 
correspondence has been received replacing the current 
DOI representative, Cliff Hoskins, with Patricia Port.

RAP/MBNMS Review of Research Proposals - 

	In Review/Reviewed:
		- CCC Information Network:  Just recently 
			received and given to Gary Sharp by the Chair 
			for a quick turn-around review.  Gary finished 
			the review and the letter has been sent in 
			already.

	New Requests:
		- USGS San Andreas Geodynamics - This has been 
			given by the Chair, via Don Potts, to Eli 
			Silver at UCSC for review.

Scheduling of July - December, 1994, RAP Meetings 
(Cailliet) - The Chair expressed a desire to hold a RAP 
meeting in the near future at the ESNERR facilities.  
Aaron said that the Aquarium has asked that the RAP give 
as much lead time to future meetings there as possible.  
The RAP decided to have the Chair and the RAP come up 
with a schedule at their discretion.  George Boehlert 
offered future use of the new NOAA facility in Pacific 
Grove.

Shark Attractant ANPR and Public Hearing (King) - 
Aaron described the present process NOAA is going 
through to decide whether or not to regulate shark 
attractants within the MBNMS (an Advance Notice of 
Proposed Rulemaking).  Aaron also announced that a 
Public Hearing would be held on March 22, at 7 pm, at 
Cabrillo College in Aptos.  Gary Greene, the Director of 
Moss Landing Marine Labs, has graciously agreed to serve 
as a hearing moderator for the Sanctuary.  The RAP 
decided to send Deborah Johnston to the hearing to 
present the RAP's scientific analysis of shark 
attractants that it did for the SAC and Sanctuary 
management.

	BREAK

	DISCUSSION ITEMS

NOAA's Decision on ATOC (Cailliet) (and the 
associated topic of establishing better communications 
with SRD/Wahle, and revisiting the "Role of the RAP") - 
The Chair stated that he saw that we had three topics to 
cover: 1) the last SAC meeting, and Greg's participation 
in that discussion, 2) Terry's explanation of the events 
that led up to the decision to move ATOC out of the 
Sanctuary, and 3) the letter from the RAP (written by 
Chris Harrold) to Terry and SRD.  

Terry started the discussion by explaining that this was 
not an easy decision for NOAA or SRD to reach, and 
everyone felt that ATOC is a very complicated project 
with a lot of public interest.  He also mentioned that 
the decision was based on information in the FEIS for 
the project.  He then passed out his comments that he 
had submitted to SRD.  

Terry then noted that the Endangered Species Act 
standard of, "a commonly accepted standard for 
significant impact, is one that would substantially 
reduce the number or restrict the range of rare, 
endangered, or threatened plants and animals, cause a 
fish or wildlife population to drop below sustainable 
levels, or adversely affect significant wildlife 
habitat" may not be sufficient within a Marine 
Sanctuary.  There is generally a belief among NOAA 
administrators that, in a Sanctuary, the potential risk 
of environmental uncertainty should be set at a higher 
standard.  SRD felt that when information is lacking, 
that the Sanctuary Program should proceed with caution.  
He also commented that he did not believe that 4 to 6 
months was sufficient to assess the seasonal components 
of the marine mammal work and recommended a year at 
minimum.  Another concern of Terry's and SRD was that 
the DEIS did not sufficiently explore the alternative 
sites of Sur Slope and Pioneer Seamont.  In summary, 
NOAA felt that the marine mammal study would be 
beneficial, and could yield valuable environmental 
information.  However, simply to say that the risk of 
drastic environmental danger was low, was not an 
acceptable standard within a Sanctuary.  Finally, Terry 
stated that he believed that the mechanism to identify 
how the source would be switched off when environmental 
damage was identified was not clearly identified.  

Terry then discussed how this decision was reached 
within NOAA.  In particular, it was noted that the 
Sanctuary regulations state that any permitted project 
within the Sanctuary can only cause a negligible, short-
term impact on Sanctuary resources, and further an 
understanding of Sanctuary resources.  NOAA decided that 
this could not be assured to a satisfactory level within 
the DEIS.  

Jim Harvey asked Terry to explain how the RAP's opinion 
and advice were incorporated into NOAA's decision.  
Terry assured the RAP that its resolution and comments 
were fully considered.  He did note, however, that there 
was some disappointment in NOAA that the DEIS was not 
actually reviewed by the RAP specifically (as requested 
a long time ago by SRD), but instead the RAP passed a 
resolution in support of the project.  Steve Webster 
noted that the SAC also was partly responsible for side-
stepping the issue by not taking a vote, but merely 
forwarding on the Working Group comments. Steve said he 
intended to take a lesson from that, especially since 
Charlie Wahle stated that it may have made a difference 
to NOAA if the SAC had taken a strong stand in favor of 
or against the ATOC project. 

The RAP discussed Terry's explanation.  In general, the 
RAP felt that NOAA's decision was flawed for the 
following reason: By moving the project outside of the 
Sanctuary, NOAA has deminished its control over the 
project.  If the transmitter is placed on Pioneer 
Seamont or Sur Slope, the same organisms will be 
affected, though the Sanctuary program can no longer 
influence the project.  

The RAP discussed the problems associated with the fact 
that there was such a high level of proof required 
before anything could be done in the Sanctuary.  Terry 
disagreed with this conclusion, stating that the DEIS 
only stated conclusively that there was no threat of 
acute or chronic problems.  If the DEIS had stated that 
there were some risks, but that they were of reasonable 
levels for a Sanctuary, that may have been acceptable.  
Jim Harvey argued that there was virtually no level of 
risk here, that all the controversy was due to one 
person (Lindy Weilgart) spreading false information via 
email.  He argued that this type of action could have 
the effect of stopping any action in the Sanctuary.  

At this point, Les Strnad encouraged the RAP to maintain 
a dialogue with SRD, NOAA and the Feds in general.  Even 
if it is a confrontational one, that is better then 
disengaging.  Les suggested that, as part of the SAC's 
strategic plan, a method be identified for review of 
environmental documents, such as an EIS or EIR.  

The conversation then turned to what this decision was 
based on; Science or Politics.  The RAP was particularly 
disturbed that the decision to ask that the source be 
moved, was still being argued (contrary to the RAP's 
opinion) as one that was based on scientific facts, 
instead of politics and regulations.  This then evolved 
into a discussion of the use of a Sanctuary in general, 
when it should be noted that the most influential 
effects on the Sanctuary, such as fishing, are not over 
issues that can even be discussed.  It was argued that, 
instead, the Sanctuary just seems to tinker around the 
edges of the really important marine environmental 
issues.  Terry stated that he felt that the feelings 
surrounding the ATOC issue were an anomaly, and he felt 
that without the support of the local research 
community, the MBNMS program would have difficulties 
surviving.  

At this point the Chair focused the RAP's attention to 
the letter to Terry and Charlie Wahle from the RAP via 
Chris Harrold.  Chris made a couple of minor corrections 
to the statements made in the letter.  Terry appealed to 
the RAP not to feel that there was a message being sent 
on this matter (as stated in the letter) that there was 
any type of anti-research tendency within the Sanctuary 
program.  Most members present stated that they felt 
that there was an anti-research tendency, and that the 
Sanctuary program needed to work on rectifying that 
perception.  Other then that there was no further 
discussion of Chris' letter, and the RAP endorsed the 
content of the letter.

Les asked the Chair, and the Chair agreed, to report 
back to the RAP on his effort to get these issues 
addressed in the SAC Strategic Plan.


NOAA R/V McArthur (Jackson/King) - Aaron gave a 
short presentation on the present makeup of the various 
projects associated.  Aaron gave the timelines 
associated with each project, explaining how each 
project would dovetail with other associated projects.

MBNMS Research Budget (Jackson) - Aaron began the 
discussion by summarizing what had been decided at 
previous meetings, and handed out a package of proposals 
that had been received to date.  Aaron said that the 
decisions had already had been made to fund the multi-
corer and $1000 to support the ROV/Diving/Benthic 
Inverts studies being done off the McArthur by UCSC.  
Aaron also stated that there were three immediate 
concerns on spending money, these were: the USGS Deep-
Sea Current meter replacement (Eittreim), the CDFG CTD 
repairs (van Tresca), and the CDFG McArthur Sediment 
analysis preparation (Stephenson).  Concern was raised 
in discussion that the CDFG CTD repairs might not be 
followed up by continuous maintenance by CDFG due to 
budgetary restraints.  Dennis Powers suggested and the 
Chair concurred, that perhaps a small subcommittee be 
put together to figure out a more structured method of 
setting criteria for RAP evaluation of MBNMS research 
projects.  This subcommittee was formed with Powers, 
Steve Eittreim and Rick Starr (with Aaron facilitating).  
The subcommittee was tasked with establishing a process 
for soliciting researchers, criteria for selecting 
proposals and a discussion paper on how to proceed on 
the Monitoring Aspect of the budget for the April 
meeting.  With this in mind, the RAP decided to proceed 
on deciding now on the three immediate needs.  The RAP 
took voice votes to fund the CDFG Sediment sample 
collections on the McArthur, but declined to fund the 
CDFG CTD repairs at this time.  Rick Starr offered to 
call Dave Ven Tresca to investigate the CTD issue 
further, and the RAP would revisit this issue at the 
April meeting and reconsider funding.  Steve Eittreim 
voluntarily withdrew the Deep-Sea Current meter from a 
vote until the next meeting.

	OTHER ITEMS

Other Old Business - Nothing

New Business - Nothing

	ADJOURN

RESEARCH ACTIVITY PANEL
A WORKING GROUP OF THE 
MONTEREY BAY NATIONAL MARINE SANCTUARY ADVISORY COUNCIL
299 Foam St
Monterey, California  93940 
					Phone          (831) 647-4257
					  Fax          (831) 647-4250
				  Internet       mbnms@igc.apc.org

	March 9, 1995

Research Advisory Panel

Dear Member:

	The minutes from the February 17, 1995, RAP meeting 
and the next meeting's agenda are enclosed with this
correspondence.  The next RAP meeting is being held on 
Friday, March 17, 1995, in the Monterey Bay 
Aquarium's Ocean View Conference Room from 9 am 
to noon.

	If you have any questions, or wish to add topics to 
the agenda please contact Aaron King at the numbers 
listed above.


							Cheers,



							Dr. Gregor Cailliet 
							RAP Chair

RESEARCH ACTIVITY PANEL
A WORKING GROUP OF THE 
MONTEREY BAY NATIONAL MARINE SANCTUARY ADVISORY COUNCIL
299 Foam St
Monterey, California  93940 
					Phone          (831) 647-4257
					  Fax          (831) 647-4250
				  Internet       mbnms@igc.apc.org

	March 9, 1995


MBNMS RAP Interested Parties:

	The minutes from the February 17, 1995, RAP meeting 
and the next meeting's a agenda are enclosed with this
correspondence.  The next RAP meeting is being held on 
Friday, March 17, 1995, in the Monterey Bay 
Aquarium's Ocean View Conference Room from 9 am 
to noon.

	While you are not a member of the RAP, this 
information is being copied to you for informational 
purposes.  However, you are welcome to attend the 
upcoming meeting as an observer.  If you would like to 
attend, please call me at the numbers listed above.

	Finally, I would like to take a moment to discuss 
RAP communications with you.  There are three means by 
which I communicate and coordinate activities of the 
RAP: mail, fax and email.  Lately, the RAP has become 
extremely dependent upon email communications.  Every 
member of the RAP has email, and this process makes it 
very easy for me to coordinate their activities.  If 
some material contains graphics, or is too long for 
email, I may fax it to each of the RAP members (since 
they all have fax machines also).  Finally, if some 
correspondence is too long or inappropriate for faxing, 
I may mail it to the RAP membership.  The bottom line is 
that many of you do not have email or fax capabilities.  
If you don't, you cannot be assured of receiving all RAP 
correspondence.  If you want to be assured of receiving 
all this info, please arrange for email and fax service 
and I will be happy to add you to those lists.


						Sincerely,



						Mr. Aaron E. King 


Dear RAP Members:

This is just to let you know that I have researched the 
time and place of the next four meetings to ensure that 
they are available at 0900 hrs on those days.  The 
schedule would then be as follows:


March 17 - 0900 - Monterey Bay Aquarium, Ocean View 
Conference Room, East - Note on entering

April 21 - 0900 - Calif. Fish and Game Office, Monterey

May 19 - 0900 - Monterey Bay Aquarium, Ocean View 
Conference Room, East

June 16 - 0900 - Calif. Fish and Game Office, Monterey

Also, the Aquarium has asked that RAP meeting 
participants enter through the office from now on when 
arriving for meetings at the Aquarium.  Some 
RAP/Aquarium Members have been using the Members 
entrance, and they would prefer (for technical reasons) 
that we use the office route.

Thanks

Aaron King

P.S. - Minutes and Agenda to follow shortly.



RESEARCH ACTIVITY PANEL
A WORKING GROUP OF THE 
MONTEREY BAY NATIONAL MARINE SANCTUARY ADVISORY COUNCIL
299 Foam St
Monterey, California  93940 
					Phone          (831) 647-4257
					  Fax          (831) 647-4250
				  Internet       mbnms@igc.apc.org

RAP Meeting Agenda

Ocean View Conference Room
Monterey Bay Aquarium
Monterey, CA

Friday, March 17, 1995, 0900 to 1200 hrs

	ANNOUNCEMENTS:

Introduction of Members and Participants

	a) Members Not Able to Attend:
	b) Meeting Member Substitutions:
	c) Guest Attendees:

List:  
	Greg Cailliet, MLML - RAP Chairman
	Laura Ehret, Naval Postgraduate School
	Steve Eittreim, USGS
	Chris Harrold, Monterey Bay Aquarium 
	Jim Harvey, Moss Landing Marine Labs
	Cliff Hoskins, Department of the Interior 
	Terry Jackson, Manager, Monterey Bay NMS
	Deborah Johnston, CA DFG/ Monterey
	Ken Parker, OAB
	Don Potts, UCSC
	Karen Worcester, Morro Bay Foundation
	Bill Schramm, OAB 
	Gary Sharp, CIRIOS
	Rick Starr, Univ. of CA, Sea Grant Advisory Program
	Mark Stephenson of CDFG/Mar. Pollution Studies Lab
	George Boehlert, NOAA/NMFS/PFEG
	Andrew DeVogelaere, ESNERR and Foundation
	Dennis Powers, Hopkins Marine Station
	Bruce Robison, MBARI 
	Jan Roletto, GFNMS
	Jim Rote, NOAA/OCRM
	Les Strnad, CA Coastal Commission 

Approval of the February 17, 1995, Meeting Minutes 
(Cailliet)

Report on the SAC meeting (Cailliet)

User Workshop Report (Cailliet)

Symposium on 20 May at UCSC on environmental factors and 
fisheries (Cailliet)

CERES (Cailliet)

Research Coordinator Position Status (Jackson)

NOAA Guide to MBNMS/GFNMS/CBNMS Marine Researchers 
(King)

Permit Report (King) 

Electronic Communications Update (King)

Institutional Permit Status (King)

RAP Binder (King)

Next Monterey Bay Research Symposium (Parker/Starr)

Response to RAP Membership Invitation to CSUMB 
(Cailliet)

RAP/MBNMS Review of Research Proposals
	In Review/Reviewed:
		- None
	New Requests:
		- CCC Information Network
		- USGS San Andreas Geodynamics

Scheduling of July - December, 1994, RAP Meetings 
(Cailliet)

	BREAK

	DISCUSSION ITEMS

MBNMS Research Budget (Jackson)

NOAA R/V McArthur (Jackson)

SRD's Decision on ATOC and the Discussion (Cailliet) - 
Establishing better communications with SRD/Wahle, and 
Role of the RAP

	OTHER ITEMS

Other Old Business - Open
New Business - Open
Items for future meetings -
	- Monterey Academy of Oceanography
	- GLOBEC
	- Open
	ADJOURN