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LIMA
Challenge
Fall 2008 NASA Quest Challenge!
Preliminary Proposals
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#1
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Team Member’s
Name: Brandt
School: Mount Vernon Middle School, Mount Vernon, IA
Teacher: Mrs. Scearce
Response from Ken Jezek:
You have chosen an interesting image. Think about how you
expect the glacier to be moving given that it is probably higher
in the upper left and lower in the mid section. Does you
expectation for the motion correspond to the direction of the swirls
you see? The bumps on the ice in the bottom left are also
interesting. Could they be related to the shape of the land
beneath the ice? Do you see any similarity between the shape
of the brown rocks in the lower left and the bumps in the lower
left? How are they different?
Response from Robert Bindschadler:
There are some interesting observations
and ideas in this proposal. I’d like to see more connections between them. For example,
how is it that drilling ice cores to search for microbial life
is related to the “swirls” observed in the imagery?
Do you think you see rivers in the imagery? If so, where is the
water coming from and where does it go? Would the water be associated
with the possible presence of life?
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| #2 |
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Team Member’s Names: Rehanna & Nicole
School: Mount Vernon Middle School, Mount Vernon, IA
Teacher: Mrs. Scearce
Response from Tom Wagner:
A couple
of questions: Why do you think volcanic or tectonic processes created
the ridge? Could it have been water or ice? How might they all
be related to each other? Read about the Ferrar magmatic system.
Response from Ted Scambos:
So you are hunting for life - this
is what Artemis was, a hunter. Cryptoendolithic organisms are
those that live beneath a rock surface, like a sandstone, using
the minerals to shield them from harsh UV, and to warm them.
In this area, however, the life that forms is a thin 'crust'
of lichen and fungi that exists on the soil surface. The patches
of lichen and fungus exist on the downwind side of a large snow
field, where (in summer) snow blows off the top of the snow
pile and onto the warm soil. As it melts, the lichen get the
one drink they are allowed for the whole year, just a few days
in January. Using a map, and knowing that the strongest, most
persistent wind is always from the high ice plateau to the
coastline, where in this image would you say is the best chance
for finding the life forms you seek?
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| #3 |
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Team Member’s
Names: John and Caiden
School: Mount Vernon Middle School, Mount Vernon, IA
Teacher: Mrs.
Scearce
Response from Tom Wagner:
It is a "cool" lake, and you might want to think about
some specific questions it might help us answer. You might interested
to know that Antarctica's only river--the Onyx-- flows into
it. How can Antarctica have a river...How might you use LIMA or
other satellite resources to understand Lake Vanda?
Response from Ginny Catania:
You picked a good lake as many scientists are currently trying
to take the same sorts of measurements you suggested on lakes like
Vida right now. As Tom mentioned, you may want to think about what
question you are asking before you take measurements. That way,
you take the right type of measurements. For instance, the question
'What is the origin of the lake?' might be answered with measurements
of the chemical composition of the lake. What would the underwater
probe measure to determine if the lake is affected by global warming?
Also, fundamentally life on other planets does not imply finding
suitable habitats for humans on other planets. Scientists are also
curious to see if life can exist in extreme environments because
it implies that life may exist on far away planets -even ones in
our solar system!
Response from Robert Bindschadler:
A nice find! Lake Vida has attracted other researchers to it, as
well. You mention that LIMA indicates the lake is frozen. If
you think that may not always be the condition of the lake, when
else would you want to take its picture from space? And I’m
glad you are asking some additional questions about what might
lie beneath the frozen surface. I like your idea of an ROV to
explore the contents of the water beneath surface. What would
you want this ROV to measure and to tell you about the water?
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| #4 |
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Team Member’s Names:
Joe
School: Mount Vernon Middle School, Mount Vernon, IA
Teacher: Mrs. Scearce
Response from Tom Wagner:
You discovered the alien space ship we've been
looking for! Good eyes, Joe. How can you use LIMA to figure out
what it is? First, estimate its size. Second, pull back and look
at what is all around it. Do you see other features like this?
Where do they occur? Or is this unique? I'm intrigued to hear what
you find out!
Response from Ted Scambos:
Well, 'Triangle Thing-ys' do not a propsal
make; you need to state a few hypotheses here. Any ideas?
Volcanoes or earthquakes or man-made (unlikely). Let's think
about the earthquake case. What kinds of things happen during
earthquakes in a hilly or mountainous area? The ground shakes,
things slide around... the rock avalanches in some cases.
Now, when the floor of the valley is a flowing glacier... what
might that look like after a few years?
If it happened once (no matter
if earthquake or volcano-related) it probably happend more than
once. Can you find other things in the same area that are similar?
Perhaps you've found one example of a 'thingy' that happens to
look like a perfect triangle. See if there are others nearby.
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| #5 |
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Team Member’s
Names: Kelbie
School: Mount Vernon Middle School, Mount Vernon, IA
Teacher: Mrs. Scearce
Response from Ken Jezek:
This is an interesting glacier. What has been happening
to other glaciers in this part of Antarctica? Have you read
any newspaper articles about nearby places like the Larsen Ice
Shelf? You can find articles on the web. What do you
think will happen to your glacier in the future?
Response from Robert Bindschadler:
I started in glaciology by studying glaciers, so I like your pick.
Can you say more about why this particular glacier is so interesting?
There are lots of glaciers in the world. Would a volcano nearby
make this glacier more or less likely to express the effects
of global warming? You also mention the possibility of penguins
living nearby. How might the presence of this glacier affect
their lives. What do penguins have to do to survive?
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| #6 |
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Team Member’s
Names: Jenny and Delaney
School: Mount Vernon Middle School, Mount Vernon, IA
Teacher: Mrs. Scearce
Response from Tom Wagner:
Great proposal--can you think of any experiments that
you might do in Don Juan Pond?
Response from Robert
Bindschadler:
OK, you’ve selected Don Juan Pond and know
that it is a pretty weird place. Any ideas on how it became such
a weirdo? Why aren’t there other ponds as salty? Where does
the salt come from? You might have to do some research to find
this out. You quote “Jim”. I think this is Jim Garvin,
a good friend of mine and an excellent geologist who is absolutely
fascinated with DJP. He would be thrilled to hear that you share
his interest in this place. You also quote some pretty technical
language, yet you seem to have an understanding of what the terms
mean. This is great! If the current biota didn’t originate
in the pond, where do you think they may have come from? |
| #7 |
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Team Member’s Names:
Matt
School: Mount Vernon Middle School, Mount Vernon, IA
Teacher: Mrs. Scearce
Response from Ken Jezek:
The mountains you observe
are important to geologists seeking to describe
the origin of Antarctic rocks. As you suggest
there has been volcanic activity on the Antarctic Peninsula. See
if you can locate Deception Island on the Lima mosaic or elsewhere. What
does it look like?
Response from Tom Wagner:
The Antarctic Peninsula
is the most rapidly warming part of Antarctica. Look at http://www.hamilton.edu/news/exp/LARISSA/APCC.html
Maybe
you can get some ideas for things you would do in these mountains
to understand climate change there.
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| #8 |
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Team Member’s Names:
Alaina and Rachael
School: Mount Vernon Middle School, Mount Vernon, IA
Teacher: Mrs. Scearce
Response from Tom Wagner:
This is a neat feature. And you might be
interested to know that researchers studying Mars are also
very interested in the Dry Valleys; in particular features
like this, which they compare with images from Mars to identify
places where there might be water. Maybe you want to look
up some Mars imagery to compare it with. But what kinds of
research questions could you ask using LIMA or walking around
on the ground to understand this region? Is there any way
to think about where the sand comes from? Can you see any
other streams or similar features nearby? Do they all connect
back to glaciers?
Response from Ted Scambos:
You have a great start
here on a proposal - and you've done some thinking about the interplay
of sun, wind, and ice that might create the creek and the dunes
next to it. Now, how would you construct a field work plan to
explore how the system works? Do the sand dunes move much in
a year? What time of year are they active? How much sand does
the creek bring to the dune area each year? Think about ways
(maybe using webcams and objects left on the site? or spy satellite
images? or many visits over the summer season?) to explore how
the system works. |
| #9 |
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Team Member’s Names: Kai & Adam
School: Mount Vernon Middle School, Mount Vernon, IA
Teacher: Mrs.
Scearce
Response from Tom Wagner:
What might you expect about microbes there? Where could
they have come from? Also, why would icebergs be trapped around
the island? How come they didn't just float away?
Response from Ted Scambos:
Global warming and Adams Island. Since
the island is in a kind of borderline situation, mostly encased
in ice but sometimes free, you might be able to use processes
that occur during the ice-free period to determine if a change
is occurring. When the ice is gone, what happens at the shoreline
(that can't happen when the shore is frozen in ice?). By
the way, sea level in this area changes a lot, due to uplift
of the continent and chnaging levels in the ocean. So, put
on your diving suit: what might you see down deep on Adams Island? |
| #10 |
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Team Member's Names: Lily and Emma
School: Mount Vernon Middle School, Mount Vernon, IA
Teacher: Mrs. Scearce
Response from Ken Jezek:
Lakes in the Antarctic Dry Valleys are very
interesting. These
lakes have been studied now for almost 100 years but many scientific
questions about them remain. You can find some more pictures
of the lakes at: http://www.mcmlter.org/ . Do
the pictures on the web site give you some clues about what you
are seeing in the LIMA mosaic?
Response from Ginny Catania:
Your questions are good ones! You may want to think about what
types of measurements you would take to answer them. In particular,
how might you determine if global warming is affecting the lake?
You can also do a Google search of Lake Hoare which turns up
all sorts of information. There is even a nearby weather station
that has been taking measurements for the last few decades (available
on the website that Ken mentioned). Can you use some of the data
here to answer your questions?
Response from Robert Bindschadler:
You’ve come up with some very testable questions. That’s
great! Many of the questions would require you to visit the lake;
it’s hard to see a waterfall from space. But can some of
your questions be answered with more space observations? Is there
a time when meltwater would be more likely? You ask whether the
water is salty or fresh. Good question. Can you take this a little
bit farther and offer an answer with your reasoning? If the lake
level changes, would you expect the ice to crack?
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| #11 |
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Team
Member’s Names: Charlie & Travis
School: Mount Vernon Middle School, Mount Vernon, IA
Teacher: Mrs.
Scearce
Response from
Robert Bindschadler:
Ah ah! You’ve found a real gem and posed lots of good questions.
You really had to poke around a lot in LIMA to find this pond.
I had never heard of it, so I’ve learned something from your
submission. Since you questions are so good, let me ask you how
you might go about answering them. What other observations from
space (with Landsat, or with other sensors) or from the ground
(standing next to, or on the pond) would you want to make to answer
your questions?
Response from Ted
Scambos:
Cool. Now, to do a new study on Pukeko Pond, you'd also need to
do some homework on other ponds - a literature survey of related
topics, that is a key part of a new proposal. You may know
about another pond, Don Juan Pond, that never freezes - so
you would want to find out what salts it has and how much.
Then you could measure Pukeko pond and see what the differences
are. And, perhaps you could use satellites to tell you when
the pond is frozen (and even what temperature it was, from
thermal infrared -- 'night vision' --- satellites).
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| #12 |
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Team Member’s
Names: Chris
School: Mount Vernon Middle School, Mount Vernon, IA
Teacher: Mrs. Scearce
Response from Tom Wagner:
What makes a crevasse? What could you learn about crevasses by studying
this place? Is there anything special about the relationship between
the ice and the underlying rock?
Response from Ginny Catania:
The roughness of this terrain as well as the crevasses are indicative
of changes in the properties of the ice-bed interface. What do
you think might be changing at the base of the ice sheet to cause
these crevasses or rough patches? One of the major difficulties
for glaciologists working in Antarctica is that we don't know much
about the base of the ice sheet -because it's under so much ice!
This is a problem because ice flow is controlled by basal conditions.
Any clues about the base are determined from other evidence such
as the LIMA image you have. What other tools might you use to learn
more about the bed?
Response from Robert Bindschadler:
Say, Chris, you’d better check your
spelling of “ruff”! “Ruff” was
the name of Dennis the Menace’s dog (but I’m showing
my age here). Back to your observations—crevasses can be
dangerous for field workers, but they can provide a lot of clues
to how the ice moves. You’ve got it right that crevasses
are formed by moving glaciers, but not always. I’ve stood
on some very fast moving glaciers and not seen a single crevasse.
Why do you think that is? If I went to the edge of the glacier,
however, next to some slow moving ice, there were crevasses galore!
If you look at other places in Antarctica, you will see a variety
of crevasse patterns. There is some more information on the LIMA
website (http://lima.nasa.gov) about crevasses and some exercises
that let you use them to measure the speed of the ice. Have a
look!
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| #13 |
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Team Member Name: Jaylee
School: Mount Vernon Middle School, Mount Vernon, IA
Teacher: Mrs. Scearce
Response from Ken Jezek:
There is not much detail on your image. Why is that? What
is the latitude of Socks Glacier? How far did LIMA map?
Response from Ginny Catania:
As Ken points out, you don't have the same quality of LIMA image
as other people. It might help future satellite operations to know
why this might happen. Do you know why? Also, you may want to come
up with more focused research questions about what you want to
study and what types of measurements you would take to answer these
questions.
Response from Robert Bindschadler:
An interesting choice of glacier. Antarctica has
thousands of glaciers to offer for study. Why did you choose Socks
Glacier, in particular? How would you expect global warming to
affect this glacier, or its neighbors? Warmer temperatures are
likely to lead to greater snowfall. That would cause glaciers to
grow. But warmer temperatures can also cause more ice to melt,
causing glaciers to shrink. I notice from your map that Socks Glacier
looks close to a blue patch: is that water? How might that affect
the response of the glacier? |
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Team members are: Julianna, James, Kristin,
Sravya, and Nicholas.
Fifth Grade class at the Good Shepherd Day School, Punta Gorda,
Florida
Teacher: Mrs. Shannon Kondos
Response from Robert Bindschadler:
I never knew of Tofte Glacier. I enjoyed reading your research
about it. You mention that you would like to understand what
causes the swirling patterns in the water offshore. What ideas
do you have and how might you explore whether they are correct
or not? I have a similar question regarding your ideas about
how warming and the water might be affecting Tofte Glacier. How
would you gain a better understanding of what is taking place
and what is its cause?
Response from Ted Scambos:
You have hit upon a really interesting idea - This
island is smack in the middle of one of the fastest-changing parts
of the ocean around Antarcitca, but it isn't studied much. To
the south of Peter I Island, the large coastal glaciers of Antarctica
are speeding up, and shrinking. A time-series of Landsat or other
satellite images could tell you a lot
about this area. What sort of things might you see? (Think ice
flow, melting ice forming ponds, location and size of the glaciers).
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| #15 |
No photo available |
From the CfBT Brunei Lower Secondary.
Teacher – Simon Gleeson
Response from Ken Jezek:
Icebergs are very interesting. Figuring out just when glacier
ice becomes an iceberg is sometimes not so easy. Take a look
at Land Glacier. Zoom out a bit so that you can see Land
Glacier and Land Bay. Which are the floating icebergs? Which
are the crevassed glaciers? I am not sure I always know myself!
Response from Tom Wagner:
In developing your research questions, you might want to learn about
another exciting aspects of icebergs--ice rafted debris! Also,
you might enjoy learning about iceberg B15. |
| #16 |
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Sixth grade students from
Pleasant Valley Intermediate School
Kunkletown, PA
Teacher: Malcolm McKinsey
Response from Robert Bindschadler:
I’m glad to read that you think Antarctic volcanoes are sooo
interesting! Fire and ice—a sure attraction. I liked reading
your ideas about formation of the volcano and how it was able to
rise above the ice surface. Do you have ideas about what you would
measure to answer some of these hypotheses?
And I have an extra challenge for you—there are many other
volcanoes in Antarctica. Can you find another? This one was pretty
easy because it was used as an example. And while you are searching
for some other volcanoes, can you also see if you can learn why
there are so many in West Antarctica (but I’m already giving
away too many hints!).
Response from Ginny Catania:
I would back up Bob's response here...what measurements would you
take to determine how this volcano got here? Also, there are
ways to look at the ice in cross section without digging into
it. Ice penetrating radar can provide an image of internal layers
(caused by events such as volcanic eruptions) and the bed. For
an example of a radar profile on ice look here : http://www.geophys.washington.edu/Surface/Glaciology/projects/scars/welcome.html
How might you use this information to understand the volcano
better?
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| #17 |
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5th & 6th Grade Science from
Shenandoah Middle School Students, Shenandoah,
Iowa
Teacher: Anne M. Travis
Response from Tom Wagner:
What a great theory! I'm not sure that volcanic earthquakes from
Erebus would have enough energy to trigger icebergs, but there
some other connections between volcanoes, ice, and small earthquakes
detected at the Mt Erebus Observatory. Check out: http://erebus.nmt.edu/.
Response from Robert Bindschadler:
Wow! You did a lot of research on B-15.
It’s a humdinger
of an iceberg and the biggest I’m aware of that has ever
broken off the continent. I followed it closely as it was drifting
up toward the Drygalski Ice Tongue. There were lots of ideas
about what would happen if B-15 hit the ice tongue and your image
captures the moment beautifully. Scientists are studying what
causes an iceberg to calve, so your proposal put yourselves right
on the forefront of research. What additional measurements would
you make to investigate some of your hypotheses? What do you
think would happen if lava flowed through ice?
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| #18 |
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Proposal #1
4th & 5th
Grade Science
School: West Hialeah Gardens
Elementary
Teacher: Ms. Lindo
Response from Tom Wagner:
You picked a good one! But let's think some more about questions.
How would a volcano make ice? Volcanoes do release some water,
but it's minor amounts. Also, you might read about what happens
when volcanoes erupt through ice. It's been documented in Iceland.
Response from Ted Scambos:
Mt Takahe is a really interesting place
-- red hot lava meets the coldest ice on earth. One thing
that happens in places like Hawaii is a structure called
'pillow basalts'. Look up 'pillow basalts' on the web or
in a book. Now I wonder what would happen at MtTakehe? Would
the pillows form the
same way? or different? Mars also has volcanoes and ice, and
may have had oceans. If you found pillow basalts on Mars, and
you wanted to know if Mars was in an ice age or a warm period
at the time of the eruption...you could use the results of this
earth-based study.
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| #19 |
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Proposal #2
4th & 5th
Grade Science
School: West Hialeah Gardens Elementary
Teacher: Ms. Lindo
Response from Ken Jezek:
You selected a very interesting image. What do you think the
different colors on the top of the mountain and the sides of the
mountain might mean? Do you think the colors could help you
test your hypothesis?
Response from Robert Bindschadler:
This was an easy pick because it was included
in the Mysteries section of the web site, so let me challenge
your interpretation a bit with some questions. How do you
know that the top is flat? It is often very hard to tell
the vertical shape of features when your view is straight
down from directly above. Are there some visual clues that
help you make this “flap-top” interpretation?
You make an interesting set of suggestions (or hypotheses) about
what geologic processes may have formed Mesa Mountain. Can you
go a little farther and suggest why those processes formed a mountain
shaped like Mesa Mountain? |
| #20 |
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Students: Mysty
, Nicolas , Eric , Morgan , Kalee , Nathan , Ryan , Dameon ,
Austin , Peter
Cheektowaga Central Middle School Science Club
Cheektowaga, New York 14225
Teacher: Mr. John-Paul Martin
Response from Tom Wagner:
Great proposal! You're all ready to move straight
into careers as working scientists! Some suggestions: Read about
cirques--the glacial features. They might give you some other ideas
about how to explain this feature. Alternatively, if it is an impact,
what kinds of things would expect to find that could prove or disprove
an impact hypothesis? Could LIMA help you find any of these? If
you did fieldwork there, what would you look for.
Response from Ted Scambos:
I have often wondered when we would find evidence of actual craters
on Antarctica - all the other continents have craters identified,
but I don't think anyone has found one on Antarctica yet (you could
check using the web, perhaps). Exploring for old craters in all
the mountain ranges using LIMA sounds like a good project. What
do craters on other continents look like from space? |
#21
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By: Mario, Lauren, Ethan, and Alexis
Wren Middle
School, 8th Grade Science
Teacher: Julie Maynard
Response from Robert Bindschadler:
Ice shelves are turning out to be areas
of very rapid change, so you are onto a very “hot” Antarctic
topic here! Did you know that there is a British research
base built directly on the ice shelf? Do you think they should
be concerned about a very large iceberg breaking off and
carrying the station out to sea? Any ideas about how thick
the ice shelf is or how fast it moves? How would you find
out? What other specific observations would you think are
important to study what the ice shelf is doing?
Response from Ginny Catania:
As Bob mentioned, this is an important topic. You may want to think
of
what you might use the LIMA imagery for to investigate this topic
further.
For instance, how susceptible is the Brunt ice shelf to breakup
versus
other ice shelves. What would you measure in order to monitor
ice shelf
change over time?
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| #22 |
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By: Andrew
Wren
Middle School, 8th Grade Science
Teacher: Julie Maynard
Response from Tom Wagner:
Some good ideas. You should read up on what is known about crevasses
to see if your theory works. Also, check out http://erebus.nmt.edu/ It's
information about Mt Erebus volcano observatory and could give
you some more ideas about the connections between ice and earthquakes.
Response from Ginny Catania:
You have based your investigation on the assumption that the crevasses
were created because of the volcano....however, what if you're
wrong? It might be good to think of other possible explanations
for what might cause these crevasses. Usually, scientists have
multiple hypotheses that they test with measurements in the field.
That way, they can find the best answer to their questions. These
crevasses may be too far from Erebus to be created by it, so
how else might they form?
Response from Robert Bindschadler:
Great! You’ve put ice and volcanoes together in a different
way—suggesting crevasses might indicate an eruption about
to occur. What else would you look for if you had more images?
(This is another way of asking what research you would conduct)
Would you look for just more of the same, or would there be changes
in either the patterns of crevasses or their extent, or even their
motion, that could give you additional indications of a volcano
about to erupt. I’ll also clue you into the fact that Landsat
has a thermal channel that makes images of surface temperature.
I didn’t use them in making LIMA, but the data are routinely
collected with every visible image Landsat collects. Proposing
science can often be as much about using old data in different
ways as it is using new data is old ways. Keep the new ideas coming!
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| #23 |
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By April
Wren Middle School, 8th Grade
Science
Teacher: Julie Maynard
Response from Tom Wagner:
What kinds of research would you use to study
the Ross Ice Shelf? ANDRILL--which you mention--tells us about
its history, but what kinds of things might you do with LIMA or
field work to understand it today?
Response from Robert Bindschadler:
I started my Antarctic research career
on the Ross Ice Shelf, so your choice is like going home
to me! I’m impressed with
how much information you collected on the ice shelf and the confidence
with which you state your convictions. Ice shelves are key. You
criticize some researchers that they don’t know what to
study. I’d like to challenge you by having you tell me
what you would measure or observe on the Ross Ice Shelf that
would help us answer questions people are asking about how the
Antarctic ice sheet may affect future sea level.
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| #24 |
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By: Janie,
Rachel, and Joey
Wren Middle School, 8th Grade Science
Teacher: Julie Maynard
Response from Robert Bindschadler:
I’ve seen Mt. Erebus and it is truly impressive! I like that
you provided a bibliography of your sources. Good work! Research
continues on Mt. Erebus. What would you want to measure if you
had the support to actually go there? Or would you conduct your
research from space, using instruments like Landsat. Do you think
you could tell if it erupted from space observations? What are
your ideas about why it is the only active volcano left on Ross
Island? You’ve got a “hot” topic here. Ask
some more questions and then say how you might answer them.
Response from Ted Scambos:
Landsat can take pictures about once every
16 days - but other satellites can take pictures every day
- even more than once a day. And some satellites can take
pictures at night as well, imaging the temperature of the
surface. Look at the picture of Erebus in your study: it's
sending out a puff of smoke. It does that every few days
to weeks. Now, if you could see those plumes in the daily
images (using a satellite sensor called MODIS), how would
you go about determining if the activity on Erebus was building
up or slowing down?
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| #25 |
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By: Tim
Wren Middle School, 8th Grade Science
Teacher: Julie Maynard
Response from Ken Jezek:
The Ross Ice Shelf is a very interesting
place. Zoom
out so you can see most of it on the Lima mosaic. Why do
you think it looks so flat? Big cracks do form on the ice
shelf. When the crack goes all the way across a length of
ice shelf front, what do you think forms? Can you test your
answer by looking at the Lima mosaic? (Look around Ross Island)
Response from Ginny Catania:
Good questions, but how do you know that the ice shelf is not
melting? Most ice shelves melt where the water meets the ice...so
at the bottom of the ice, not on the top. How might you measure
melting on the underneath part of the ice shelf? What might your
measurements tell you? Also, many land-based glaciers flow into
the ice shelf....what might happen to these glaciers if the ice
shelf melts? How might you try to measure any response of these
glaciers using LIMA?
Response from Robert Bindschadler:
A wonderful set of hypotheses about a fascinating
feature. You’re
soooo right, the Ross Ice Shelf is big, about the size of Texas.
Various types of scientists have been studying it for over 50 years
to find answers to many questions. Both Amundsen and Scott traveled
across it on their way to the South Pole. There have been some
summers when there was melt recorded on the ice shelf and it got
many people excited and a few worried. Most of your questions are
about discovery, so it is harder for me to suggest follow-up questions.
Discovery is one of the most fascinating parts of doing science,
but we usually have to have a more testable hypothesis to base
our research on. You mention using dust to determine the age. Good
idea. How would you collect the dust and how would you use it to
determine the age of the ice? |
| #26 |
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Project submitted by: LAB R.A.T.S. Science Club
Caddo Hills School, Norman, AR
Teacher: Terry Wisener
Response from Robert Bindschadler:
You are on to an excellent science Question.
Scienitsts still don’t
know enough about how these large rifts form, how they grow and
how they ultimately separate an iceberg from the ice shelf. Nor
do we know how much the ice that is left might change its flow
as a result of a large iceberg being formed. Observations over
time are going to be a very important part of answering these
questions.
- Can you think of a way to determine the thickness
of the ice shelf from a single Landsat image? (Hint: it has to
do with shadows and knowing that the ice is floating).
- You suggest there is a link between global changes or changes
in the Indian Ocean and the changes on the Amery. How would you
determine if either hypothesis is true?
- What you’ve done so far is great. I’m just pushing
you to go a bit further. Science works that way—there’s
always another question to pursue. Have fun discussing it!
Response from Ted Scambos:
Here's an interesting note for you: when
the massive tsunami that rocked Indonesia and India in 2006
swept across the ocean, it hit the Amery pretty much square
on (although the wave was smaller due to spreading). How
would you use Landsat to tell if there was an effect on the
ice shelf? What might you expect to see?
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| #27 |
No Photo available |
Max,
Matthew , Andrew, Matt
Crompond Elementary School
Yorktown Heights, NY
Teacher: Anna Fazio
Response from Tom Wagner:
You're off to a good start, but keep in mind that
tectonic processes are slow, millimeters per year in this part
of the world. But, tectonics did creat the TransAntarctic Mountains--and
the shape of those mountains guide the glaciers. But the glaciers
also shape the mountains. Can you think of any ways that you
could look at rocks to identify where glaciers started out?
Can you see any features that look like they were shaped by
glaciers? Could you use LIMA to help you?
Response from Robert Bindschadler:
Glaciers are very interesting. They are what
drew me to glaciology. Maybe you, too? I’ll leave it to you
to determine where Taylor Glacier starts (hard) and ends (easy).
How would you answer your questions about why the glacier makes
the large turn in direction. Any ideas about what determines what
direction a glacier flows in a valley. I will give you the hint
that gravity is the primary force that makes the ice flow.
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| #28 |
No Photo available |
Meera, Amanda, Lindsay, Ashika
Crompond Elementary School
Teacher: Anna Fazio
Response from Tom Wagner:
Some ideas: What is the land like that the
Byrd glacier is passing through?
Response from Ginny Catania:
You may want to do a bit of web-research
to understand how crevasses are formed. And then think about what
types of measurements you might take to understand the crevasses
on Byrd Glacier a bit more. You mention that the ice here is moving
very quickly. How might you study the crevasses to learn about
the ice flow speed?
Response from Robert Bindschadler:
FYI, Byrd Glacier just made scientific news (again), so you are
very right, it IS an interesting feature. New research just published
determined that Byrd Glacier sped up 10% at the same time that
lakes beneath the ice and upstream of the glacier lost a lot of
water. I mention this because you also state some hypotheses about
what causes crevasses to appear on the glacier. What other measurements
would you have to make to test your hypotheses? You mention waves
in the ocean and wind.
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| #29 |
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Third and Fourth Grade Science
Classes
Connally Elementary, Waco, Tx
Teacher: Mrs. Gardner
Response from Tom Wagner:
Great proposal! Here's a hard question
for you: can you figure out much melting a volcano could cause?
There are records of volcanoes erupting under ice in places like
iceland. Or can you figure out how small amounts of melting might
affect the ice? I'll give you hint, if you put water under a glacier,
what might happen to it?
Response from Robert Bindschadler:
I’m happy to read the additional research you did on Mt.
Takahe. I agree that it is a very interesting feature. One of the
questions you pose includes other Antarctic volcanoes. Did you
find any others? What characteristics would help you identify other
possible volcanoes? Is satellite imagery, like LIMA, a good tool?
How large an area of ice might be melted if this volcano erupted
and how large an effect on sea level would that have? Keep asking
questions! That’s how the best science gets done! |
| #30 |
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Monaire
6th Grade Science
Taylor Academy
Response from Tom Wagner:
Clever ideas! How large is this feature? Is it
too big to be a rock thrown out from the volcano? Could be it another
volcanic vent? Compare it with other features on and around Erebus.
And read up on how ice caves form--you'll get some more ideas.
Response from Ginny Catania:
Interesting feature....you may want to look at the LIMA image from
further away to see the feature in a regional context. Also,
I would look at the shadows that the feature creates (and compare
these shadows to other known features nearby) to determine if
it's a depression or a raised feature. That will help determine
it's origin. Good pick!
Response from Robert Bindschadler:
Neat! Puzzles often make for the best science,
and you have found yourself quite a puzzle here! We have
a fancy name for it: “curiosity-driven
science”. That’s what you’re doing. I had to
go to LIMA myself to check this one out. You have spotted the
glacier on the right and know that Mt. Erebus is nearby and have
used them to think about what the feature might be. Do you see
other features like it nearby? Sometimes it is hard to know if
features are a hill or a hole. You think yours is a hole. Do
you know from what direction the sun is shining? Zooming out
and taking a look at all of Ross Island (which you know is a
hill, not a hole) will tell you. I also noticed that your feature
occurs right at the edge of the island. Can you detect the edge
of Ross Island? How do you think I know that is the island’s
edge? Are there other measurements you could make from additional
Landsat images to tell you more about what the ice is doing here?
You might want to look at the material about how scientists use
crevasses at http://lima.nasa.gov.
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| #31 |
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Garrett, Period 2
8th grade science at Millinocket Middle School,Millinocket,
Maine
Teacher Mr. Chad Bell
Response from Tom Wagner:
Interesting theory!
Can you tell which way the ice is flowing? Is this the end of the
glacier or the start of it? Zoom out a bit!
Response from Robert
Bindschadler:
Nice discovery! Ice acts like a very
slow fluid and you are right that it can slowly erode rock.
Did you happen to notice the shape in the rock just to the
left of your “bump”? To my
eye, it looks different that most of the other rock adjacent to
the blue glacier tongue. Why is that? And why is the ice so blue?
Any ideas? |
| #32 |
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Mark, Period 3
8th grade science at Millinocket Middle School,Millinocket,
Maine
Teacher Mr. Chad Bell
Response from Tom Wagner:
That is weird one! I wonder if it is an old volcano? How could
you tell if you went out there to look at it? Is there anything
else nearby in the LIMA imagery that would help you?
Response from Ginny Catania:
How might you figure out if this was once a volcano? What would
you measure or study? If you could get a trip to actually visit
this location, what measurements would you take?
Response from Robert Bindschadler:
I enjoyed reading your short description
of discovery by zooming into Webber Nunatak Summit. Last
austral summer I made the first landing ever on the Pine
Island Glacier ice shelf putting me just 20 miles away from “your” nunatak. I can tell
you that’s impressive terrain, but I didn’t have
the view you had zooming in with LIMA. Why do you think the top
is a depression? Can the shading of the snow caused by the sun
give you the answer of whether the top is curved downward or
upward? The bright side of the nunatak will tell you which direction
the sun is shining on the feature. Why do you link this mountain
with a volcano? I think there is a connection and I expect you
would find that it is an old extinct volcano, but I’m not
sure. It’s a good hypothesis. If you were to go there,
what would you measure to find out?
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| #33 |
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Alex, Period 3
8th grade science at Millinocket Middle
School,Millinocket, Maine
Teacher Mr. Chad Bell
Response from Tom Wagner:
Some great ideas! We do find fossils in the rocks that glaciers break
off and drag away. If you're interested in birds and dinosaurs
you should read about the fossil birds and plesiosaur found on
the Antarctic peninsula. How might you use LIMA to find rocks with
fossils in them?
Response from Ginny Catania:
Good observations! You are right that the flow stripes go around
the little mountain (nunatak) in the middle of the glacier. These
flow stripes allow us to understand the path that the ice takes.
Can you use them to determine the direction of ice flow? In other
words, is the ice flowing from the bottom-left to the top-right
or the other way around?
Also, why would this area in particular be good for fossils and
not other areas that have exposed rock? You might want to look
at where this glacier is in relation to where animals could have
roamed in the past.
Response from Robert Bindschadler:
There are lots of glaciers pouring ice through the Transantarctic
Mountains and you’ve found an impressive example that visually
illustrates ice flow through and around the mountains. I like
the slanting perspective you’ve given your image. You alos
correctly name the flowstripe features and crevasses. Tell me
how fast a “fast” glacier goes and how fast you think
a “slow” glacier goes. (no right or wrong answers
to that one, but I will say that we usually find crevasses starting
to form when the ice moves faster than 100 meters per year).
A fast moving glacier would erode more rock. Would this lead
you to expect more success in finding fossils or would they be
ground away? Why do you think the color of the surface changes
on the glacier?
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| #34 |
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Jordan, Period 5
8th grade science at Millinocket Middle School,Millinocket,
Maine
Teacher Mr. Chad Bell
Response from Tom Wagner:
Good questions! Suppose you were funded to study this area--what
would you look for? If this peak had previously been overrun by
ice would it look the same as if it hadn't been? Could you use
this peak to figure out how much ice was in Antarctica during the
last ice age? How might that help us predict future sea level rise?
Response from Ted Scambos:
Cool picture, and this is an area of Antarctica
that few people have been to. What do you think the blueish
region is to the right of the Walgreen ridge? Look up the
words 'blue ice'. Do you think it could be meltwater or blue
ice?
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| #35 |
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Reegan, Period 5
8th grade science at Millinocket Middle School,Millinocket,
Maine
Teacher Mr. Chad Bell
Response from Tom Wagner:
Wow, that is amazing site! And it is beautiful, but what could study
of this are tell us? You might be interested to read about the
collapse of the nearby Larsen ice shelf to get some ideas.
Response from Ted Scambos:
Reegan, you have found an area where global
warming is happening very fast. Even in just a few years, there
are big changes in this area. The Landsat image record goes
back to 1972, and all the images are available online at USGS's
Earth Explorer site -- so what would you do with a few more
images that went back in time? What would tell you if the glacier
was responding to warming or not? |
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