Question of the Week: What Role Should the International Community Play in the Russia-Georgia Conflict?
Posted by DipNote Bloggers on Aug 15, 2008 - 12:58 PM

Russian troops entering into the Black Sea port of Poti, Georgia, August 14, 2008. [AP]

DipNote Editors' Note: Due to lingering crisis in Georgia, this entry will remain the "Question of the Week" for two weeks.

Last week, Russia attacked Georgia in response to a Georgian attempt to quell dissension in a breakaway province. On August 12, Russian President Medvedev met the President-in-Office of the European Union, French President Nicolas Sarkozy, and approved a six-point peace plan. Late that night, Georgian President Saakashvili agreed to the text. Since that time, tensions remain in the region. Secretary Rice met with the Georgian President and called for a cessation of military activities and respect for Georgian territorial integrity and independence and sovereignty.

What role should the international community play in the Russia-Georgia conflict?

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Joe in Tennesse writes:

Quote:
@ Kirk and Joe, There's an interview w/ the Russian president on BBC, I think it was yesterday or the day before. He states very clearly he's concerned about Russia's relations with NATO, EU, and US. END QUOTE

What he states is pretty much the same rhetoric of past:

1. I do not want to fight anyone, they started it.

2. I will simply pull out of the G-8.

This is a NEW RUSSIA that IS INDEPENDENT now. Do not underestimate them in any regard.

If you will note: This conversion started when Putin re assigned the OLD Soviet Financial Director to his post. That should have been the West first red flag. It has been a very well planned set of circumstances and Putin is to be applauded and respected for it. Perfect timing, perfect moves from a Master.

Russia is much more than a Bear now, much, much more.

Why does everyone in the US want to always complicate the simplistic? It is a weakness and a cause of our current situation in the world economically and strongly aided the overall success of Russia and China. They both eliminated all the complicated and worked with very simple directives using the Trust and arrogance of the West and NATO to gain time.

We work like ten Unions trying to reach the same directive or goal. They take one initiative and work all ends toward it. What happened to good old common sense?

Posted on Fri Aug 29, 2008

Jewl in Australia writes:

okay this is interesting.

Posted on Thu Aug 28, 2008

Zharkov in U.S.A. writes:

The only real difference between Kosovo independence and South Ossetia independence are the ironic positions of the puppet masters pulling the strings on these little regions.

Russia and America have reversed positions. One might speculate that Russia could be persuaded to forget independence in Georgia's breakaway provinces if America forgot Kosovo independence and that region was returned to Serbia.

Both puppet masters seem to have short-term memory loss regarding their reasons for prior positions taken concerning independence. It makes for a lethal but entertaining show with Russia threatening nuclear war and the US taunting them with military force. Is there anything else the US government could do to worsen the situation?

Posted on Thu Aug 28, 2008

Eric in New Mexico writes:

@ Wenton in California, C-span has a news conference w/ Amb. Churkin (Russian amb. to the UN) in which that very question was put to him by a reporter.

In it he talks about the Russian rationale for recongnizing independance.

Frankly, the question of brutality in the Chechen conflict is relative when you consider terrorist acts like Beslan.

And that conflict, because of the terrorism, is not comparable. It represented a direct threat to Russia.

This situation did not.

And that's about the only thing I agree with Churkin about.

Every conflict, or struggle for autonomy has its own unique parameters. While there may be similarities in certain aspects, it does not serve logic to draw parallel conclusions from direct comparison.

Whether that be Kosovo, or Chechnya.

Eventually folks are going to have to create a better framework of cooperation to deal with these types of "frozen" conflict,....(I perfer the word "intractable")...to gain traction on the slippery path to peace.

This is way too dysfuntional for the 21st century.

One thing is for sure. Russia's use of force to resolve political differences was exactly the wrong approach to take.

It would have been one thing if they had stayed within the confines of their OSCE agreements rather than consider then null and void. Confined their actions in response to violence strictly within the disputed territories, and asked the west to intervene to help create the peace.

What you see happening in the west's response to this is as a result of Russia taking exactly the wrong approach to resolving conflict.

In my mind, they have pretty well ensured that this won't get resolved in a peaceful manner anytime soon.

Posted on Thu Aug 28, 2008

Wenton in California writes:

Why is there NO mention of Chechnya in negotiations w/ Russia? Russia would lose any authority on South Ossetia and Abkhazia IMMEDIATELY if Sec Rice were to ask President Medvedev if he supports Chechen independence, to which he would most assuredly respond no. It is abhorrent that the world has forgotten Russia's brutal suppression of Chechnya - not once, but twice! Russian hypocrisy at its greatest, and EU/US cowardice at its worst.

Posted on Thu Aug 28, 2008

Eric in New Mexico writes:

Meanwhile, back to the question....

"What role should the international community play in the Russia-Georgia conflict?"

I think an examination of what role the international community is playing presently is in order.

The thing I like most about the British political system are the massive weekly debates in the House of Commons that hones the skills of debate and produces some of the most articulate individuals on the world stage.

And just from a standpoint of raw analysis, the efficiancy in the way this issue has been examined in the following speech by the right honourable Foreign Minister of the UK deserves becoming witness to. Regardless of one's position on the matter.

So here's the link:

http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/newsroom/latest-news/?view=Speech&id=5600028

I think everyone on this blog will find their particular concerns and viewpoints addressed, in one way or another. I know I did.

Posted on Wed Aug 27, 2008

Eric in New Mexico writes:

@ Kirk and Joe, There's an interview w/ the Russian president on BBC, I think it was yesterday or the day before. He states very clearly he's concerned about Russia's relations with NATO, EU, and US.

Unfortunately there's a distinct lack of Slavic imput on this blog to either confirm or refute what Lawrence said.

He seems to imply that former Soviet States, and Russian people as well don't consider themselves worthy to live in a "western style" demcracy.

Fact is, there's a whole lot of "styles" to choose from. If they need inspiration that they can achieve a free society, I would think all they need to look at is how the Afghan people have gone about creating one. Litterally from nothing, but with a lot of help from their freinds.

I can understand he derived his viewpoint in his experience with the nations he's traveled to, but I don't think his generalization works in Poland, Ukraine, Romania, and many other "slavic" states. Even the "Stans" are moving towards more democratic institutions , with the exception of Uzbekistan.

Building a free society doesn't happen overnight with a vote. The institutons have to be built to sustain one.

Joe says Russia is stonger than at any point in history.

I ask, Compared to what? You would think 500 billion per year in DOD funding would keep America #1 , and so the strength he speaks of in not in military terms (and you can look JANE's up for the details.)

Economic leverage w/ oil and gas? The EU won't be blackmailed.

Posted on Wed Aug 27, 2008

Kirk in Kentucky writes:

@ Eric in New Mexico

Sorry about your lost post. That can be a kick in the teeth. It's happened to me 3 or 4 times. The salt in the wound is that it usually only happens after you've written your heart out about something. What I do, since my spelling isn't so great, is paste what I've written in a word processor, clean up the spelling and check the character count. Then, even if it's lost here, I've got the back up.

I won't ask you to retype your post, but I am interested in hearing what knowledge you've acquired about the Russian mindset. Lawrence in Tennessee wrote in the "Secretary Rice: Leadership Through Negotiation in Georgia" thread some of his insights about the Eastern Europeans and I wonder if those are your assessments, as well?

Posted on Tue Aug 26, 2008

Joe in Tennessee writes:

Thank you for the more specific information.

What seems to be missing is the fact that Russia may well not care what the World thinks at this juncture. It is all part of a larger picture. They have always used 10 years formats. I am not sure you understand that fact.

They have shown their hand and direction. Last night, or today, depending on where you reside, North Korea has put a piece back on the board. This is all Russia showing their power and direction.

We have little or no impute into their activities other than checking their moves and we are so spread out right now, no one has made Russia a priority?combined with the present political process, you can see that even the timing of the MOVE is very well planned. This is no happenstance at all and I am not beating the drums, as no one wins in such a confrontation if it were to occur --the question is: What can we realistically do?

By the way, they have been in our house for decades...I should know...General Boykin knows as well and when he presented fiscal information back in the late 70s, what happened?

Nothing...we even honor one of the recipients of Communist funds to this day. Goldwater knew and nothing was done either.

If we did nothing then and only turned over the moles after damage was done on the intelligence end, how far into our system and American life do you think they are now?

The Russian Mob even runs most of the crime in Southern Flordia now. From false religious bases to the criminal elements, they are integrated into America.

Think about it...if we don't control them here, how can you control them at Home?

Posted on Tue Aug 26, 2008

Donald in Virginia writes:

25 August 08

PEACE!

We all want to live in peace, to raise our families, to work and shelter and enjoy our lives. We have had many barriers to overcome in life. We accept people of all orgins from around the world. We take for granted what life is really all about. How many people on earth take the time to actually smell the roses? The tree of life philosphy is very simple. You plant a tree which is your birth into society. Your parents take a guardian role by ensuring you are given the proper education, shelter, provide food, water, clothes and medical. Your tree grows with your soul everyday feeding on those nutrients. Those roots dig in deep. The soil is well cared for. The weather changes with time, sunshines then rains, snows. The seasons of life begins. Then as you get older the branches emerge. It's Spring and the leafs appear on the tree. What comes next is responsbility. Religion does play a part in your life. In my opinion God lives and he created this world, he designed the pattern. If your tree was planted in the desert with no food, no water, chances of survival would be very slim. However, with the right location, a loving family, with resources, positive and re-inforcing influences by your peers being apart of your lives makes a big difference on your future.

We all can Master Peace by "Putting our differences aside, find some common ground for Communications, a foothold, a bridge, a buffer zone for leaders to speak their minds, represent there views without the need to use military strength when a pen is always smarter than a sword." Some would say "Mightier than the sword" The ink of a pen is like a vessel. It's never about the messenger, but it's always about the message."

This message is about Peace, about life, and about people from around the world sharing and bonding in the spirit of good faith. A lighthouse on the rocks represents "A light which guides you through the rough seas. Protecting you from what lays ahead. "Remember, in the beginning of life there was only darkness. Then God created Light!

One other Commandment I forgot to mention. "Love thy neighbor!" In the eyes of God we are all neighbors who share this world together. We are all brothers and sisters from all walks of life. It's not easy but you always have to give more in life before you can receive.

My humble prayer to the world is "We can all live in Peace, share our experiences in life, accept all people, all religons, all faith into a partnership that cannot be broken. We all can be witness to the history of man and women from years ago. Leaders of power that were corrupt, that mistreated their people, caused great pain and suffering, plagues and famine, destroyed not saved the human sanity of life that we treasure more than anything on earth. The many sacrafices made to endure one word "Freedom."

"Peace, Freedom and with God who gave us Free Will to make choices which should benefit and enrich our lives" Take a few minutes have a cup of coffee or a glass of tea and iron out those differences.

God Bless the world "People and Leaders"

Posted on Tue Aug 26, 2008

Eric in New Mexico writes:

@ Kirk in Kentucky,

You won't have long to wait before what I said starts to make a whole lot of sense. Even if you think my eyes are blind, I was standing in Russian shoes when I stated it. I was speaking of the human condition that lies behind their "tactical" decisions.

I just lost a long post to you on this and I'm too tired at the moment to retype it in full, so if you need further clarification, just ask.

As to your question, I think it's too early to tell.

-----

Notice to Dipnote Editors and fellow Dipnote contributors:

When notified that a post is over its character limit upon trying to post it, the entire post consistantly vanishes when going back to edit it. Beware. The only workaround presently is to highlight the text, right click and hit "copy" before trying to post. That way one can at least "paste" it back on the refreshed screen, and then edit if needed.

Please let the IT guys know so this problem can be fixed, thanks.

Posted on Mon Aug 25, 2008

Kirk in Kentucky writes:

@ Eric in New Mexico

"...what I see is them desperatly trying to save face and trying to justify remaining in Poti and other soverign Georgian territory outside the disputed regions not so much as a point of negotiation, but as misplaced pride in their actions..."

I don't think mis-placed pride is the issue. A folly of trying to ascertain another's actions is to see their motivations through our own eyes, rather than through their's. I suspect they are thinking practically. Georgia not only posed a threat to their interests but actively moved in on them, so they stormed in, made their point by force, and kicked over Georgia's sandcastles. The reason they are taking their time in drawing back is that they are busy taking everything of value that can be moved and destroying what can't. For the sake of their national interests they have to destroy the infrastructure. This will buy them some time while Georgia rebuilds. Along with that, the extension of their patrols will enable them to control the situation with great accuracy and defensibility if the situation should arise again (and it will at this rate).

You've said that they've bitten off more than they can chew, but who's going to force them to spit it out? So far only words have been forthcoming from other countries and what's the value in that?

Tactically speaking, they've gained lots of prime U.S. hardware, destroyed the enemy's defensive capabilities and further secured the support of the S. Ossetians, who by this point may be more anxious to increase their partnership or come fully into the fold to protect them from the promised aggressions of Georgia, why would they need to compromise? Russia will balance the need to withdraw completely, or mostly so, because they know the risks of insurrection and holding onto gained ground. Who's gonna stop them?

I agree with your solution, that's pretty insightful, but I wonder if Russia sees any need at all to cooperate at all? Time is on their side.

If we are intent on actively working against Russia instead of increasing our partnership, we should focus on attacking their strengths: their economy. Not that I advocate that path but Sun Tzu wrote (to paraphrase): "If the enemy is full, find a way to starve them, if they are organized, throw them into chaos, if they are well defended, draw them away from their defenses..." and so on. Personally, I think if we lay off our rhetoric a bit and, like you said, let a more neutral country take the lead (though France seems to be handling it well), we can come to a compromise that will ensure global security and peace. Of course, softening our rhetoric is an improbable suggestion for our current administration who has too much invested to remain impartial. Indeed international courts do need to come to a consensus about what, or who, is in the right or wrong in a conflict-of-interest altercation like this, but if we focus on that to the exclusion of the actualities on the ground we will only flounder impotently with either self-righteous justification or martyred indignation. As for the Russians, they don't have to prove themselves to anyone, justification is superfluous when equipped with superior firepower.

My question to you is this: how do you think this conflict will set the tone for our up-coming administration?

Posted on Mon Aug 25, 2008

Zharkov in U.S.A. writes:

Russia is in dire poverty in areas outside of its major cities. Russians fear American military power more than we fear Russia. Russians still relive Hitler's invasion as if it happened yesterday. They believe international corporations want to steal their country's oil and mineral resources. They distrust NATO because it expanded to their borders, and Mr. Putin distrusts any promises made by the Bush Administration after noting several that were broken. So when we induct new NATO members along Russian borders, breaking Reagan's promise to Gorbachev, and one those prospective inductees begins shooting Russians, what would you expect them to do, throw a party to celebrate?

Asking the DoS to act as a neutral mediator between Georgia and Russia is as ridiculous as can be, which is why Mr. Sarkozy got the job done and we did not. If we begin to treat Russia as an enemy, we are definitely headed in the wrong direction. But we know that, don't we? Was nothing more obvious? Does America really need to slide back into another Cold War? Can't our "War On Tourism" keep us sufficiently entertained?

Yes, Eric, you know you live in the "Utopia of Soviet America" if you need a federal passport to re-enter your own country, submit to warrantless wiretaps, a matrix of informers in banks and private corporations, a president who rejected an investigation into 9/11, and a Congress that thinks "liberty" means higher taxes. It is pathetic that "Americans" such as Eric in New Mexico, think nothing of the Constitution and hold a police state in such high regard. That is not America. I don't know what else to call it.

Posted on Mon Aug 25, 2008

Eric in New Mexico writes:

@ Joe in Tennessee, regardless of Putin's, or should I say the entire Russian Gov.'s (given their parliment's calling for the recognition of the separatist region's independance from Georgia. Which will be vetoed in the UN Sec. Council if an attempt is made by Russia to alter existing UN resolutions on territorial integrity), actions and planning , what I see is them desperatly trying to save face and trying to justify remaining in Poti and other soverign Georgian territory outside the disputed regions not so much as a point of negotiation, but as misplaced pride in their actions, and it won't fly with the UN.

As I said, they've bitten off more than they can chew.

I don't know whether the reports of Russian nuclear missles moved into S. Ossetia are true or not, but if confirmed....the Russians have apparently violated the very agreements you speak of regarding their end of things from a non-aggression standpoint.

I think the only rational way to solve the underlying issues that lead to violence is to put the issue up for international arbitration. The parties themselves are too close to the problem to have the proper perspective to solve this themselves, obviously.

It's going to take a real clear eyed, independant, non aligned negotiator to lead that process.

Japan perhaps could, even China.

But without a peacekeeping force that has no vested interest except to keep the peace, this situation will flare up again in violence. Especially if the Russians don't withdraw completely from Georgia proper.

Eventually they will be facing a situation of armed insurgency otherwise.

And there's nothing that the west could do to prevent that, because the Georgian people won't put up with any Russian occupation very long. Protests have already begun.

There's a very limited time to put a lid on this for good and all, and the Russians need to understand this for their sake.

The backlash has already begun.

Posted on Mon Aug 25, 2008

Joe in Tennessee writes:

I simply want to LEARN from this blog in the realm of the DOS various relations on a professional levels and have at least basic background information formats...such as all the Russian economic accords, including ours and the NATO agreement with Russia on not putting any troops in surrounding countries to show non agression, when relivent.

I do not take kindly to threats.....you have to admire Putins planning and moves...if you do not, your are living in the dark.

Posted on Sun Aug 24, 2008

Eric in New Mexico writes:

@ Zharkov in U.S.A. -- Zharkov, nappy time is over. Please wake up and understand just what you are defending by supporting the Russian line of argument on this blog.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/23/AR2008082301944.html

I find it oddly amusing that you profess to live in "The Soviet utopia of America" and appear to be just now "coming out of the closet" as a Regan Republican.

That sir is one hell of a paradox, so be careful it doesn't make you schizophrenic....(chuckle).

Posted on Sun Aug 24, 2008

Jonathan in California writes:

The international community should continue to work aggressively to strengthen the fragile peace between Georgia and Russia. The role of the international community should be that of a mediator, while the UN should step in to fill the longer term role of a peace-keeper.

Posted on Sat Aug 23, 2008

Joe in Tennessee writes:

1. As part of our Accord with Russia, we cannot put troops in any of the countries that surround them. Putin was smart, he put up a fight and got that as a diplomatic assurance we have no intent of aggression when we started the NU. If you are on a Diplomatic Blog, you should already know this.

2. Why do you presume that Russia wanted the wall to stay up? Have they not benefitted in the long run. It was the Regan Economic policies and their overspending in Military hardware which put them in their position economically. It was forthcoming. If we had prevented the re-growth of isolated power there, it would be a different story. You are on a Diplomatic Blog, so why have you no foresight?

3. Why is no one showing the Economic Asian, European, and China Accords made with Russia in recent history? You are on a Diplomatic Blog, so why do you not have any degree of these basic issues the DOS has to deal with? Why not do a little research?

4. Why do you not know the actuality of the Russians superior position in negotiations at this juncture? All the facts are there.

There are no warm beaches in Russia by the way ...so you do not even know your geology...

Why not find a site you can feel important on somewhere else?

Posted on Sat Aug 23, 2008

Donald in Virginia writes:

World Leaders!

God will never need a military his will is done everyday!

Take note of what you do in countries. God sees all, knows all, hears all and when is people are in distress he comes to the rescue! How your Political Views are pushed on a country. Russia as an example: What possible good is it going to war and destroying human life? Is this ego, is this pride, is this a world leader being bored? I would like to know where people of power get their motives to want to send in a military but only to take away the one thing poor people have to live? Unfounded claims that Georgia was involved in terrorism. Which means Russia were the agressors. I do not put shame on Russia. I put a responsibility to human life. An account which only the Russian Leaders will have to face during Judgement Day! Read these words and understand. "No Man or woman has the right to destroy human life." In self defense we all the right to protect ourselves. God created the Ten Commandments even for world leaders. "Your acts, your decisions, your power is only temporary in the eyes of God." "In the end he will have the last word!" In the end he will decide your faith, your destiny and it's never too late to find the light, find a church or mosque and pray for forgiveness and repent those misguided decisons to attack on a poor country. I believe Russia should do the opposite now and provide aid to the people they have hurt or damaged during this short war. Maybe there is hope that the people of Georgia will find it in their hearts to forgive what they have done. Forgiveness is a wonderful tool. I would say to the Russian Leaders your might, your power, your sword will only be dull because the world will stand up, the world will see what is happening, God answers the call of the people who pray to him. Russia do the right thing now, end the violence, bring Peace to Georgia, and repair the damage you have caused those people. That would be an honor to help those you have hurt. What people take for granted is everything you do on earth is recorded with God. "The book of life." Will you be so lucky to be entered in the Golden Gates of Heaven? Or will you be sent straight to hell burning for eternity. Personally, I like heaven they give free donuts!

Peace Be Upon All Nations - Olive Branches, Doves and a warm handshake to know your word is your bond for Peace!

Posted on Sat Aug 23, 2008

Benoit in Canada writes:

First of all, please define what is "the international community". If you mean the U.S.A. and its NATO allies, they hardly represent the real world community of international states. Second of all, the U.S.A. has to determine if they want to uphold and defend the notion of sovereignty as in the case of Georgia (South Ossetia) or disregard it as in the case of Serbia (Kosovo). The U.S. can't have it both ways...well, my bad...they have all the weapons...so maybe they'll have it both ways. The might is right, right?

Posted on Fri Aug 22, 2008

Ronald in New York writes:

Keep up the military drum-beat and you will find a very warm beach in Russia, for sure.

Posted on Fri Aug 22, 2008

Zharkov in the U.S.A. writes:

@ Kirk in Kentucky -- Thanks Kirk in Kentucky for the info. The U.S. Ambassador to Russia has done the honorable thing and told the truth about how the Georgian war with Russia started. Truth is everything in international relations and that man deserves a commendation.

If we expect former enemies to trust what our government tells them, our government officials must tell them the truth, or else tell them nothing, but stop the wholesale lying about almost everything. It makes Americans look bad to foreigners.

When Francis Gary Powers was shot down in his U2 aircraft, President Eisenhower could have immediately told the truth to Khrushchev and simply admitted that monitoring other countries is necessary for national security. Ultimately, the truth came out, and Eisenhower, to his credit, did the right thing when the Russians presented Mr. Powers to the international news media. It could have been handled better by admitting the truth from the beginning.

American diplomacy needs a new beginning, a beginning based on honesty, integrity, and making no promises to other nations and their leaders that we cannot keep. Naive, perhaps, but necessary to repair the damage done already.

Reagan was a great leader because everyone trusted him to do exactly what he promised to do, and he never promised more than he wanted to do.

Imagine Reagan's immense accomplishment - to persuade hardened Soviet nomenklatura into the idea of tearing down the Berlin Wall - today it seems like a miracle and it probably was, but it happened because even the Soviets trusted his word and trusted our government to keep his promises long after he was gone.

Posted on Fri Aug 22, 2008

Eric in New Mexico writes:

@ Joe in Tennessee -- Joe from Tenn. wrote:

"There are but two comments that have any relevance to a DOS level blog...what is this?"

(chuckle)....yeah Joe....your two posts previous to this oner\ right?....right.

Well you go on believing you are the only one with a clue or that your criteria of what constitutes a "state dept level blog" is even relevant to your participation here.

Officially, that is. The rest is just a personal problem.

So don't put this on the rest of your fellow contributors because that Sir, is simply unacceptable.

Now I would say that I've seen my fair share on inane comments on this blog over a fair amount of time, and more than a couple I've read have been from your pen.

To tell you the truth, most of the problems you have with folks seem to come from the fact that you think you are the only one with any insight. And that in itself shows a complete lack of understanding.

So when you get off the ego trip you're on, then maybe you'll get realistic, and accept that other people's understanding of reality is at least as valid to them as yours is to you.

At least I know that any employee of State knows the above is a fundamental premise to becoming a diplomat.

You want professional courtesy? Start acting like one.

We are the blog, Joe...everyone contributing to it...for better, or worse.

It is what you make of it. Or not.

Posted on Fri Aug 22, 2008

SNP in Syria writes:

@ Kirk in Kentucky -- Kirk in Kentucky said in one of the most articulate comment, one that summed up the past 8 years Bush Administration strategy

...The main thrust of the real U.S. strategy has been complete global dominance, which is why there is a profound disconnect between what they say to the people and what they do. But it's almost all over now...

Almost all the plotters who contrived that demented strategy were ardent Zionists Khazzar (not Hebrew). They were not planning to help Israel nor advance American interests. They used these as covers to gain a resemblance of support, an alibi per say, at least for the media to peddle.

The main goal of the Agenda was self interest and those of backers, the Financial-Military-Security industrial-complex in the U.S. and Israel. Europe and the rest of the guppy nations, got nothing, they just bought the lies.

But it is not all over now. They counted on more Kaddafi's and not Zarqawi's, so they suffered a setback. But they did not give up, as the failed Georgia debacle show, failed that too for lack of understanding of the KGB men that they tried to mess with. It was Iran, the single obstacle they need to overcome to have the plan on a roll. Now, the Russians are awakened to the plan and have quickly realized that they need Iran and Syria as well. Should Russia blinked in Georgia, they would have won big. They would have completely encircled Iran from all sides, land, sea and Air and that only obstacle would have been removed in a heart beat. That was a serious blow that Russia delivered to the plan and Iran did nothing for it, I doubt they even thanked Putin for the help.

Now, it is up to the Iraqis. If they rejected this latest SOFA Agreement, they could request a UN troupes, mandate or resolution and even get other neutral forces to keep the peace while U.S. forces being vacated, supposedly by 2011. That will seriously defeat the plan and possibly it is all over then. But should Iraqis ratify the SOFA agreement, which states that forces will leave by 2011, but here is the catch term that is not publicized, the troupes can leave earlier, or later than 2011. That is the scam, by 2011 the U.S. will get ready to deal with Iran, it would use this period as a retrieve and re-stockpile and will in fact then creates the volatile security circumstances so that it will not vacates Iraq and hold the forces until the next opportunity comes up in 2012.

Posted on Fri Aug 22, 2008

Joe in Tennessee writes:

Thank you...all but the Freedom of Information Library....LOL! I lived some of it and the truth be told: Many of the released reports are the ones that have no or limited validity, but, were officially sourced and stored. There are few quantifiable story lines and the ones that can be are general knowledge...would not expect otherwise where NS is concerned.

So, why the stall in the petrol rise in prices?

PS: This is a NEW Russia, do not fool yourself. Separation does not mean what was, now is. They have a lot of tools available that were not present before. To think that the old Regan economic policies that helped reduce their fiscal relevance long ago will help now is blissful ignorance. In actuality, the table is turned.

By all standards: RUSSIA has NEVER been this strong in History...NEVER!

Posted on Fri Aug 22, 2008

Ronald in New York writes:

Russia seeks to re-establish the glory days of Czarist Rule (world super-power)...US and Europe are in state of shock and denial...

When you are in a hole; stop digging (drilling?)

What are the partnering-points for U.S.-Europe-Russia?

Posted on Fri Aug 22, 2008

Kirk in Kentucky writes:

@ Joe in Tennessee --

"Does anyone here know a better site that actually has personal who ARE ACTIVE or RETIRED who know what they are talking about?"

Try the Washington Diplomat
http://www.washdiplomat.com/index.html

The Public Diplomacy Council
http://www.publicdiplomacycouncil.org/Home_Page.html

And Foreign Policy Blogs
http://election.foreignpolicyblogs.com/

You might have difficulty engaging current diplomats since they are cautioned against debating policy with citizens. Their jobs are to push the policy line. If you want a thorough explanation of current policy, they can tell you a lot about it- if they ever get the time, but you won't find them deviating from official stances. If they have any dissenting opinions, they can express them through an internal channel but not to the public. If you write an U.S. embassy or Ambassador about something non consular related they will probably not respond; but the State Department has an "ask an Ambassador" section that lets you interact in real time with Ambassadors or diplomats acting as Charg� d'affaires. Retired diplomats are your best source of expertise. For what it all means, the web sites listed above have great long term global perspectives. Plus they have blogs or links to them.

Also, as far as reading goes, almost every Military Academy and War Collage has a plethora of related publications on their sites. I personally recommend the Air University in Alabama.

http://www.au.af.mil/au/ccaf/

and an purely web based school:

University of Military Intelligence.

http://www.universityofmilitaryintelligence.us/mi_library/default.asp

And one more, the CIA also has an on-line library of some great publications, from reports, evaluations, to analysis techniques.

Let us know what you find.

Posted on Fri Aug 22, 2008

Kirk in Kentucky writes:

@ Zharkov in U.S.A. -- Zharkov wrote:

"I think it is now obvious that the Bush Administration is neither acting in the interest of the American people, nor in the interest of freedom, truth, justice or fairness, but is subservient to some weird agenda known only to themselves."

Ah, allow me to enlighten you on that point. The major participants of the neo-con think-tank, "Project for the New American Century", have all since gained positions in the government when the current administration came into office. The paper "Rebuilding America's Defenses" was one of the main blueprints they used for the next 8 years. The Bush cabinet has implemented most of their doctrine's points, which, while ambitious and far reaching, is noticeably lacking any comprehensive multilateral diplomatic strategy and decidedly one-dimensional in scope. This paper is a good example of how depth of knowledge does not equate to breadth of understanding. It is a remarkably crude and simplistic approach by brute force. Since the aims of the current administration is against the grain of the majority of public opinion and traditional American ideals, a considerable amount of propagandistic measures have been implemented here at home to sell us every move. The main thrust of the real U.S. strategy has been complete global dominance, which is why there is a profound disconnect between what they say to the people and what they do.

But it's almost all over now.

Here's the paper:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/9651/Rebuilding-Americas-Defenses-PNAC

Posted on Fri Aug 22, 2008

John in Greece writes:

@ Zharkov in U.S.A. -- I do not believe in polls, but in case YOU've missed the polls, I still insist that you need to... "take a vacation." I would suggest Hawaii, if you are embarrassed to choose Russia ...your favourite destination.

I will not comment on what you write because this is a cheap, anti-American-anti-Israeli propaganda of yours, without any argumentation, or proofs. You are trying to implant us with just some propagandistic links to ...NOwhere.
Maybe I am wrong, but your thoughts are just paranoid and conspiracy scenarios.

If you believe that you love and promote U.S.A. and the ideas of the New World by thinking and writing this way... you are wrong, as you are... on everything you write concerning the Balkans.

Thank God and God bless U.S.A., all Balkan countries and people are free for once, due to the American efforts and of course NOT BECAUSE "Russians can briefly act as temporary peacekeepers" as you suggested and they "attempted" to do in the past.

Posted on Thu Aug 21, 2008

Steve in Scotland writes:

Taking for granted my assumption that the International community, in this case the EU, UN and USA, is not united, it would seem that divide in opinion resides throughout states which appear politically aligned, as well as the two states in actual question, Russia and Georgia.

The current world climate in terms of misdemeanours at state level and consequent international response, houses major operational examples that are far too fresh in the minds of the ever important voting public. One example being Iraq and another being Afghanistan, show that a military response by any facet of the international community may be expected,however with indifference the weapon levelled at legality or apparent lack of such actions.

Thus, same old sovereignty debate that ultimately binds the hands of institutions such as the United Nations, showing the gulf (pardon the pun) that separates poicy formation and consquent implementation. Who has the legitimacy?

It is my belief, then, that Russia should be observed for now, free from the aggression of perceived western institutions and foreign policy directives. After all, actions such as those may only further entrench the expansive policy beliefs of Russia's rulers and , more alarmingly, Russia's people.

Once again taking for granted another assumption of mine, that of Russia's pursuit of global standing and hegemonic assertion, it would be better to hold the weapons and continue the humanitarian support. As although a giant, given enough rope, the Russian aggressive foreign poicy will hang itself.

Posted on Thu Aug 21, 2008

Joe in Tennessee writes:

Oil rises to $119 on Russia-U.S. tension.

International Herald Tribune - 1 hour ago.

Polish soil, drawing a sharp response from Russia, the world's second-largest oil exporter. The pact comes as relations between Russia and the...

blah, blah..so why would it take so long? anyone?

Posted on Thu Aug 21, 2008

Zharkov in U.S.A. writes:

@ John in Greece -- John in Greece, our government had already "sacrificed" U.S. dignity, democracy and our values a long time ago.

I want to see these returned to us.

For example: The U.S. authorized NATO to bomb Serbian civilians and then deceitfully accused the Serbians of genocide. No evidence of genocide in Kosovo was found by the The Hague Tribunal investigating the matter. See: http://www.converge.org.nz/pma/sevid.htm Rollie Keith, the retired Canadian military officer who served as a OSCE ? Kosovo Verification Mission observer in Kosovo in the 1990s said he never saw any evidence of genocide or ethnic cleansing involving Slobodan Milosevic and Serbian forces in Kosovo and Metohija. See: http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=KEI20050702&articleId=625 The atrocities in Bosnia was held not to be genocide by The International Court of Justice (ICJ). See: http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=5847 In summary, it appears that we have been repeatedly duped by our own government's bogus claims.

We allowed NATO to bomb Yugoslavia as a result of fraud, deceit and fabrications, but no US official has ever been prosecuted for the resulting murders of civilians resulting from such deceitful officials.

The U.S. bombed Iraqi cities, executed civilians without a trial, committed war crimes in Iraq, and violated the Geneva Convention at Abu Ghraib and elsewhere but no administration official has ever been prosecuted.

Our puppet president of Georgia attacked S. Ossetian civilians with his American and Israeli trained and equipped army, killing about 2,000 and driving 30,000 into Russia, and then Georgia deceitfully accused Russia of war crimes, and again, no US official has been prosecuted for murder.

The so-called "Russian invasion" was a response to this US-sponsored war crime, according to Paul Roberts, a former US Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan Administration, who also writes, "The U.S. strategic objective - to ring Russia with bases and puppet states in order to exercise hegemony over Russia - will lead to war, the destruction of liberty and perhaps life on earth."

In an interview with the RIA News Agency aired on Thursday, Russia's top intelligence official said that the United States had known about an exact date of Georgia?s aggression against South Ossetia. According to him, Tbilisi got Washington?s nod for the military operations in Abkhazia and South Ossetia. The top official pointed to the fact that the beginning of August saw U.S. NAVY chief of staff Garry Roughhead cancel his trip to Russia, which if fulfilled, could have coincided with the culmination of hostilities in South Ossetia from 10 to 14 August.

The "international community", if they had courage to confront the truth, should be asking questions, such as,

1. Which U.S. and Israeli officials supplied arms or otherwise assisted the Georgian murder of Russian soldiers and why have they not been indicted or prosecuted for conspiracy to commit murder?

2. Which U.S. or Israeli official conspired with, managed, directed, or authorized, Mr. Saakashvili to commence the Georgian attack on South Ossetia, or was it a group decision, and if so, who are members of that group?

3. Which international laws were violated by the U.S. and Israel supplying weapons of mass destruction to Georgia? In this regard, please note that U.S. prosecutors in the San Diego courthouse bombing case have defined a simple pipe bomb to be WMD.

4. Which U.S. criminal laws apply to US officials who aid and encourage unjustified military attacks in foreign nations which are certain to result in civilian casualties?

5. What effect does arming small nations have in creating large wars and why?

6. Why is it U.S. official policy to supply arms and ammunition to unstable regions of the world?

...It's clear the policies we have pursued regarding missile defense and installations in Europe, regarding further expansion of NATO have created difficulties with Russia,? said James F. Collins, the last American ambassador to the Soviet Union and now a director at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. "It takes two to tango."

Mr. Collins' statement agrees with similar statements from Pat Buchanan, Paul Roberts, and other former U.S. officials in the Reagan Administration. I think it is now obvious that the Bush Administration is neither acting in the interest of the American people, nor in the interest of freedom, truth, justice or fairness, but is subservient to some weird agenda known only to themselves.

In case you've missed the polls, Americans do not want a war with Russia, Iran, or any other country that has not attacked us. There is absolutely no support for risking the lives of our sons and daughters for the sake of another arms deal or another pipeline, or some crazy guy with an agenda.

Posted on Thu Aug 21, 2008

Gil in U.S.A. writes:

The international community most be assertive and continue to demand Russia to avide the cease agrrement. Unilateral economical sanctions should be considered by the european nations as well as from the west. NATO should be the only organization dealing directly with Russia.

Posted on Thu Aug 21, 2008

Joe in Tennesse writes:

There are but two comments that have any relevance to a DOS level blog...what is this?

Does anyone here know a better site that actually has personal who ARE ACTIVE or RETIRED who know what they are talking about?

I do not mean this to be belittling, I simply find the conversation level to be limited in scope and experienced knowledge... I simply need a site more in line with my expertise...I'm rather surprised that you do not know the level of the DOS authority in actuality...it is not always about shaking hands. Got a site/blog for that aspect?

By the way, we had our hands full when Russia was broke and had rusted planes ...that is not the case now at all ...can you understand that? It is NOT THE OLD RUSSIA; it is a NEW RUSSIA with an abundance of tools ?

Russia is rather beautiful in places -- the women especially -- and yes, they do have beaches, but I still haven?t seen a warm beach SIR!

So, do any of you know the right blog for me and where there is a warm beach in Russia?

Posted on Thu Aug 21, 2008

Eric in New Mexico writes:

Headlines across the world are stating "No "business as usual with Russia." like NATO's decided to make Russia "bogyman" of the month or something because America's got it in for Russia.

If the press exacerbate tensions by mis-characterizing intent, then they should be held accountable for the results.

For the interests of all concerned, here's the original context:

MODERATOR: We have the final question from Sylvie Lanteaume, AFP.

QUESTION: Madame Secretary, the Europeans seem obviously reluctant to isolate Russia as you would like. They don't want to treat the Russia of today as the Germany of (inaudible). Do you think -- do you think these concerns are legitimate? Do you understand them?

SECRETARY RICE: Well, Sylvie, the United States doesn't want to isolate Russia. It's the United States that has a strategic framework for cooperation with Russia that has everything in it from economic cooperation to political cooperation, cultural cooperation, indeed even offers of defense cooperation. So the United States doesn't seek to isolate Russia. The behavior of Russia in this most recent crisis is isolating Russia from the principles of cooperation among nations of the communities of states when you start invading small neighbors, bombing civilian infrastructure, going into villages and wreaked havoc and wanton destruction of this infrastructure. That's what isolates Russia.

And so it is not an act of the United States or Europe or anybody else to isolate Russia; it's what Russia is doing. And I would just call your attention to the language that there can be no business as usual with Russia while this kind of activity goes on. And so I want to be very clear: the United States sought precisely what we got in this statement, which is, most importantly, support for Germany's -- for Georgia's democracy; secondly, a very strong message that the Russian President ought to keep his word; and third, a very clear statement of principle from this alliance that a new line in Europe where Russia somehow asserts that there are those who cannot opt for a transatlantic future is unacceptable.

(Source: State dept. press release)

Posted on Wed Aug 20, 2008

Eric in New Mexico writes:

Reality check of the day:

Remarks to the press by US Deputy Permanent Representative to the UN on the conflict in Georgia.

http://www.usunnewyork.usmission.gov/press_releases/20080820_226.html

Posted on Wed Aug 20, 2008

Eric in New Mexico writes:

@ SNP in Syria -- Well SNP, I probably didn't articulate it as well as I might have, so I 'll not try and put it in terms that the children of the book generally relate to, and simply say that Buddha-mind had nothing to do with the decisions to engage in battle.

That was a function of the duality of the world we (humanity) live in.

---
@ Val in U.K. -- I'm sorry for your loss, and I know it's easy to look to place blame. That's understandable in your circumstance.

I know what it's like to lose someone.

As for America's role, beyond being in the cheerleading section for a young democracy and it's people's self-determined future potential, I think you'll find that in the conflict itself as has been the case for a long time, we've tried to mediate between the parties. As have others.

I don't know that this is so much an "ethnic" conflict, as the press sometimes calls it, or just a crisis of national identity on crack.

In any case, and I don't know that this helps...but if you're looking to place blame, start with the folks that gave the orders rather than with nations and peoples.

That way you can put a face on it.

Posted on Wed Aug 20, 2008

John in Greece writes:

@ Zharkov in U.S.A. -- That's it! It's obvious!

You definitely need to take a vacation. (we know your favorite destination: Russia)

According to your suggestions we should "sacrifice" U.S.A., dignity, democracy and our values, as well as the whole West to Russians, in order for them to be ..."happy" again as they used to be during their "multi-nation dictatorship" for many decades.

This theory of yours could certainly "end" the Cold War, but unfortunately, then, we would have to face our END!

You write (among other strange things):

"Why won't Secretary Rice ask that Russia declare total neutrality toward all former Soviet states and agree in writing never to occupy them except briefly as temporary peacekeepers, in exchange for the following..."?

-- Because she is a genius and she does not need to take a vacation like you.

P.S. Your highlights:

"AND AGREE IN WRITING"

"EXCEPT BRIEFLY AS TEMPORARY PEACEKEEPERS"

Sure!

Don't you understand that you cannot have deals with the Russians, because they do not respect their statements, signatures and ...deals?

Ex. How can you forget that Putin was assuring everyone -- and the Secretary of State -- that would leave politics after his last term?
Did he?

...No!

Posted on Wed Aug 20, 2008

Jack in Oregon writes:

Checking to see if this message sends, the last one did not.

DipNote Bloggers write: Your comment made it through Jack. Thanks.

Posted on Wed Aug 20, 2008

Ronald writes:

1948-2008

Haven't we learned anything yet?

Small blue planet; finite resources; technologies of destruction are the only things seeming to advance.

The Cold-war is now the Gold-War...

Allies? we all better be allies soon; or there will be no sides left.

Georgia....The New Bay of Pigs?

Posted on Wed Aug 20, 2008

SNP in Syria writes:

@ Eric in New Mexico --

1- Yes mankind does have a choice, it's free one, but some entities (be it earthly, Extraterrestrial or spiritual) seems to know in advance what choice human will take given that free will. Although the delivery was given as warning for humans, sometime out of care, but other times in vein and vindictiveness.

2- Yes, the choice remains at disposal of decision makers, but the real powers to make this change are the subject to that decision maker. The leader could be out in left field, but that is why you have assemblies and congresses.

3- You are wrong on this one. The Creator, or as some call GOD (there exist an intelligent creative force in nature) have a master plan for this world or universe should be running. Will interfere, sometime patiently or positively, other times violently or negatively, to insure that the intended plan is the one carried out eventually. Since this creative force is an all omnipotent, omnipresent in form of electromagnetic energy, it can not affect the physical course by itself. It works by directing and manipulating other physical bodies (humans, bugs, nature) to accomplish goals and direct the plan. This process is on going and indefinite in time just like the ancient Chinese understood it to be, a perpetual motion of struggle by positive energy to equalize the negative one. Without this process the Universe can not exist.

Posted on Wed Aug 20, 2008

Joe in Tennessee writes:

Who said it was a SNEAK Attack?...LOL!

Do any of you have military experence or intelligence experence or just read American Newspapers and blogs?

1. Knowing the Old Russia, it may well be a Kansas City Shuffle move. Get us all looking one way while something else is going on we overlook....

Anyone?

Posted on Wed Aug 20, 2008

Zharkov in U.S.A. writes:

Is our foreign policy designed to avoid war or cause war?

We have been offering Russia frequent punishment without many rewards for a long time. Maybe it's time for a change that Russians can believe in?

Why won't Secretary Rice ask that Russia declare total neutrality toward all former Soviet states and agree in writing never to occupy them except briefly as temporary peacekeepers, in exchange for the following:

We could assist in setting up an East European court system created to deal with disputes between Russia and former Soviet states, and disputes between Russian citizens and such states, and thereby end the need for military intervention.

We could help Russia write treaties allowing extradition to Russia of Russian criminals from former Soviet states and even western nations such as Britain.

We could help Russia diminish the threat of NATO by treaty, to provide that no former Soviet state would assist NATO in attacking Russia, and by moving missile shield bases away from Russian borders.

We could be assisting Russian small businesses in manufacturing and marketing of Russian-made consumer goods in the United States and Europe and drop all Soviet-era sanctions against Russia. We could try to help Russia acquire some of the benefits of EU membership without actually having to formally join the EU, if they prefer not to do so.

There are many other favors America could do for Russia to end our backsliding into the Cold War. Why don't we do something positive and surprise them?

Posted on Wed Aug 20, 2008

Ronald in New York writes:

A Better Question...

What role did the United States play in the Georgia-Russia conflict?

Posted on Wed Aug 20, 2008

Val in U.K. writes:

All I know is that four members of my family were murdered by Georgian troops. They stayed behind because they did not want the Georgian troops to loot their belongings, little did they know.

Georgian troops murdered about 2000 civilians before Russia came to the rescue.

My other family members fled to the safety of Russia and will not ever return to their homeland out of fear being woken up at night by another ethnic cleansing episode.

The west, particularly America, are so brainwashed into thinking that their country is the golden angle and does no wrong. This time the west is wrong, Georgia committed human rights atrocities and now are blaming Russia for it. Ask anyone from that region and they will describe the horrors of Georgian troops.

Even Fox news got it wrong on TV, they interviewed a family and coached them before the interview on what to say, when they stated that it was Georgia that started the conflict and committed the violent acts, they quickly cut to a commercial then shortly ended the interview.

Funny how America did not care when Israel invaded Lebanon over the kidnapping of 3 soldiers but goes crazy with condemnation when Russia steps in to save thousands of people.

America is hypocrisy at its best. America attacks Serbia, Iraq, Afghanistan, supports Israel attacking anyone and everyone, Stays silent on China's brutal crackdown in Tibet, but yet condemns Russia for this.

Posted on Wed Aug 20, 2008

Zharkov in U.S.A. writes:

@ Robintel in Romania -- Robintel in Romania, if you read my post carefully, you will notice I said Georgia "attacked", not "invaded", because South Ossetia is part of Georgia, and in that regard, I am absolutely right.

Russia was authorized by international agreement to maintain a peacekeeping force in South Ossetia.

I must have missed Secretary Rice's condemning Georgia's President for instigating the use of force. Was there any manner of DoS disapproval or was the sneak attack authorized?

Posted on Tue Aug 19, 2008

Janet in California writes:

Let's show Russian soldiers far from home defecting to the West for a better life. Hopefully, Moscow will fear more to follow and order it's troops to return home.

Posted on Tue Aug 19, 2008

SNP in Syria writes:

QUOTE???You are absolutely wrong. Georgia did not invade South Osetia the same way U.S.A. cannot invade U.S.A. Osetia is a part of Georgia. Remember that??.END QUOTE

That is even worse, you mean the Villi's just committed genocide against own people, slaughtering more than 2000 elderly, women and children in the first 2 days of unprovoked attack! YEAP, that sound like the U.S. was really behind it, another of America puppets like Saddam and his genocides against Kurds and Shia is ruling now in Georgia.

Posted on Tue Aug 19, 2008

Joe in Tennessee writes:

1. It was predictable and Russia political relationship has been strained in the region for years. How many times has Georgia asked for Russian help in the past, then they turn around and side with the U.S. regarding the Nuclear Umbrella. If Russia would react, the most beneficial invasion point would be who? It shows POWER. The game piece has been played, like it or not.

2. Without ground forces, we have shown no real protection and this looks bad for NATO and the U.S. Even with Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili pleading for ground forces to shore up his democracy, the world watched and merely pounded its diplomatic chest? Russia won hands down ...in fact they are still there are they not?

3. It would seem the only real actions would be for the UN to set legal recourse for any Nation to cancel any Russian manufacturing contract or service, otherwise there is no economic sanction possible as: France ordered it Nuclear reactors from them, Italy makes the SU-30 fuselages, Israel ordered its upgraded radar system ...gosh, the Democratic countries put a lot of money in Russian pockets and many are dependent on their petrol and gas? Even for the U.S., there is talk of a Russian firm opening a new steel mill in the U.S., in Ohio, that would employ some 4,000 workers. What can anyone do?

4. The move was predictable in every aspect. If no one seen all that hardware or the gearing up by Russia to invade Georgia we have severe problems and our National Security is more than at risk, we look very idiotic in every respect in the bigger picture...The fact we didn't back Georgia up militarily and make a confrontation will weaken our position with new allies and some smaller ones where Russia is concerned. Most simply put: As one foreign dignitary stated: "It seems the U.S.A.'s big stick is not large enough for Russia.?

As Sherlock Holmes would day: Watson, the game is afoot! Why deny it? Why do overeducated egos not accept the fact they are wrong or that things are not as complicated as they want them to be to justify their decision making?

Posted on Tue Aug 19, 2008

Helios in U.S.A. writes:

Russia had little to no right to invade Georgia proper (i.e. beyond South Ossetia), and it's questionable that there was significant cause for them to legitimately invade any part of Sovereign Georgia (including South Ossetia). Any pretext has been set up by Russia over the last year - including granting citizenship to the population of a renegade province in another sovereign country. Charges of war crimes against the attempt by the Republic of Georgia to reclaim a recalcitrant province should have been fed through the International Criminal Court in The Hague. At most the Russia should have stopped at the South Ossetian border with the rest of Georgia and by no means should additional Russian Troops been sent to Abkhazia.

Granted I am upset that Mikheil Saakashvili took Russia's bait, but I have little doubt that if he hadn't Russia would have eventually designed another pretext to invade. My greatest fury is at the utter lack of useful response by the Federal Government (i.e. Bush the Coward) and the European Union (i.e. The Useless Gits). We abandoned an ally which is unforgivable. We should have at least made a show of force, such as redirecting a Battle Group toward the Black Sea. What we need to do is push the Russians out of the country and throw down the gauntlet. Diplomacy is useless in dealing with Putin, as can be seen by constant Russian violations of the so called cease fire and its use of Georgian civilians as force laborers (I'd use the term slave labor). Putin means to weaken the Republic of Georgia to the point of utter collapse, and George Bush bears some responsibility by his lack of response to the situation.

Since the U.S. Government and European Union have failed to act, it is incumbent upon the citizenry to do what the government has not. What can be done?

1. First, always complain to your Representatives and Senators. Call for any and all means to restore Georgian Sovereignty. This of course will accomplish little to nothing as many politicians are base cowards and sycophants, but you have to try.

2. Domestic Energy - I know we don't like the topic, but it has to be aired and new sources of fuel, both conventional and alternative must be found and developed.

3. Withdraw any and all investments in Russia and Russian Firms. Call on American companies to not do business in Russia.

4. Here's where things get a bit more direct - protest at Russian consultants and Embassies. Interfere with traffic in and out. Submit bogus requests to waste their time and energy.

5. Take down Russia websites and servers - hackers attack. Cost them as much money as possible.

6. Support Georgian resistance groups when and if the time comes.

Posted on Tue Aug 19, 2008

Zharkov in U.S.A. writes:

Pat Buchanan has written almost exactly what I've been saying here:

"If the Russia-Georgia war proves nothing else, it is the insanity of giving erratic hotheads in volatile nations the power to drag the United States into war.

From Harry Truman to Ronald Reagan, as Defense Secretary Robert Gates said, U.S. presidents have sought to avoid shooting wars with Russia, even when the Bear was at its most beastly.

Truman refused to use force to break Stalin's Berlin blockade. Ike refused to intervene when the Butcher of Budapest drowned the Hungarian Revolution in blood. LBJ sat impotent as Leonid Brezhnev's tanks crushed the Prague Spring. Jimmy Carter's response to Brezhnev's invasion of Afghanistan was to boycott the Moscow Olympics. When Brezhnev ordered his Warsaw satraps to crush Solidarity and shot down a South Korean airliner killing scores of U.S. citizens, including a congressman, Reagan did ...nothing.

These presidents were not cowards. They simply would not go to war when no vital U.S. interest was at risk to justify a war. Yet, had George W. Bush prevailed and were Georgia in NATO, U.S. Marines could be fighting Russian troops over whose flag should fly over a province of 70,000 South Ossetians who prefer Russians to Georgians.

The arrogant folly of the architects of U.S. post-Cold War policy is today on display. By bringing three ex-Soviet republics into NATO, we have moved the U.S. red line for war from the Elbe almost to within artillery range of the old Leningrad.

And can we not understand how a Russian patriot like Vladimir Putin would be incensed by this U.S. encirclement after Russia shed its empire and sought our friendship? How would Andy Jackson have reacted to such crowding by the British Empire?

If Cold War II is coming, who started it, if not us?

The swift and decisive action of Putin's army in running the Georgian forces out of South Ossetia in 24 hours after Saakashvili began his barrage and invasion suggests Putin knew exactly what Saakashvili was up to and dropped the hammer on him.

What did we know? Did we know Georgia was about to walk into Putin's trap? Did we not see the Russians lying in wait north of the border? Did we give Saakashvili a green light?

The war in Georgia has exposed the dangerous overextension of U.S. power. There is no way America can fight a war with Russia in the Caucasus with our army tied down in Afghanistan and Iraq. Nor should we. Hence, it is demented (i.e. crazy, insane, irrational) to be offering, as John McCain and Barack Obama are, NATO membership to Tbilisi."

I wish I could underline every word of the above article, but to this, I would add that it's a stupid foreign policy to offer the illusion of protection to smaller nations that America is not willing or able to provide. We should not arm them, teach them, then abandon them to be shot.

If Russia is surrounded by NATO members, it still remains Russia, with Russian attitudes, and Russian leaders, and it will deal with those who deliberately shoot Russians, as Russia always has, one way or another.

Posted on Tue Aug 19, 2008

Eric in New Mexico writes:

@ SNP in Syria and Joe in Tennessee -- It has been suggested by SNP that this conflict reflects biblical prophesy manifest. Joe suggests folks pray and get realistic.

OK fine, let me suggest then that:

1) These revelations of prophesy are not written in stone as if mankind had no choice in the matter, but written down to be read by folks in today's world as a warning to be careful about the world we create for ourselves.

2) The choice exists to remain subject to the vision of a possible future and believe phrophesy to the extent that we all walk over oblivion's cliff like lemmings, or change the parameters of understanding what purpose they serve in order not to create that dismal vision of long ago.

3) Since I don't believe God has anything to do with what is obviously the works of man in these circumstance, I have no reason to think prayer will solve the problem.

And that's about as realistic as it gets.

Posted on Tue Aug 19, 2008

Robintel in Romania writes:

Hi!

It is my strong belief that the international community should support Georgia in its legitimate attempt to keep its borders.

I also strongly feel that NATO should offer strong and immediate support to Georgia because the conflict there is the price Georgia pays for being our dedicated ally.

It's really our war there: a war of ideas.

As always, people die. We should do something fast!

Are we going to allow Russia to make a mockery of everything we have built over the years?

@ Roman in Russia -- You are wrong. Yugoslavia did not have a democratic leader.

@ Ron in New York -- Is it fair for allies to die while we do nothing about it?

@ Bruce in Illinois -- I agree with your proposal. It's only fair: you want to see the world? Be part of that world and obey its rules.

@ Zharkov in U.S.A -- Russia has no legitimate business in Georgia whatsoever. I live in Europe.

Russia smuggled in weapons into Georgia's South Osetia so no, Russia should stay out. They have created the mess.

If you interfere with your neighbours you should expect some form of retaliation.

You are absolutely wrong. Georgia did not invade South Osetia the same way U.S.A. cannot invade U.S.A. Osetia is a part of Georgia. Remember that.

Posted on Tue Aug 19, 2008

Jeton in Kosovo writes:

Why do you think I don't want Russia to do the same that the U.S. is doing?

You are looking at the wrong mirror if you see a parallel between Kosovo and South Ossetia.

Were South Ossetia or Abkhazia constituive elements with its own constitution in U.S.S.R.? FYI Kosovo was!

Posted on Tue Aug 19, 2008

Jim in U.S.A. writes:

The actions of Russia are deplorable and it should face swift action from freedom loving countries of the world. What ever is necessary to remove the Russian aggressors from sovereign Georgian territory should be taken.

Our allies should take the following quote to heart.

"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid." (Dwight Eisenhower)

As for the Russians I have this Texas saying "Never dig up more Rattlesnakes than you can kill!"

Posted on Tue Aug 19, 2008

Eric in New Mexico writes:

@ Roman in Russia -- Every conflict has it's own unique set of circumstances and motivations, thus like nations who are unique in their own being, U.S. policy is not applied in a "one size fits all" manner, and while Russia may try to find some justification in what you say, it would be misplaced logic to use such comparisons.

When the Sec. of State said, "Russia has overreached." this is why:

"A major issue is Russia's contention that the regions of South Ossetia and Abkhazia may not be a part of Georgia's future. But these regions are a part of Georgia, and the international community has repeatedly made clear that they will remain so. Georgia is a member of the United Nations, and South Ossetia and Abkhazia lie within its internationally recognized borders. Georgia's borders should command the same respect as every other nation's.

There's no room for debate on this matter. The United Nations Security Council has adopted numerous resolutions concerning Georgia. These resolutions are based on the premise that South Ossetia and Abkhazia remain within the borders of Georgia and that their underlying conflicts will be resolved through international negotiations. These resolutions are based on the premise that South Ossetia and Abkhazia are to be considered a part of the Georgian territory, and to the extent there's conflicts they will be resolved peacefully.

These resolutions reaffirm Georgia's sovereignty and independence and territorial integrity. Russia itself has endorsed these resolutions. The international community is clear that South Ossetia and Abkhazia are part of Georgia, and the United States fully recognizes this reality.

We will continue to stand behind Georgia's democracy; we will continue to insist that Georgia's sovereignty and independence and territorial integrity be respected."

- President Bush, Aug 17

So basicly Roman, every day the Russians are in Georgia is another day your nation is looking like it's breaking its own word and going back on signed UN resolutions rather than relying on them for a credible solution to the conflict.

Posted on Mon Aug 18, 2008

Ari in Florida writes:

Russia is a very dangerous aggressor.

Putin who is still in charge in Russia wants to use the false patriotism and national pride to stay in power forever.

This was the style in the former Soviet Union and it is what he wants now. Remember he was a KGB officer and everybody knows what is that means.

I spent 10 years of my life in Russia. I know them very well. They are not compassionate people. Too many years of communist education that promoted the hate and intolerance.

Russia is a very violent society. And Putin is capitalizing on this to perpetuate himself in power.

Posted on Mon Aug 18, 2008

Roman in Russia writes:

Shame on you!

Why do you think that Russia can not do the same as the U.S.? The actions of Russia in Georgia mirror the U.S. action in Yugoslavia.

Posted on Mon Aug 18, 2008

Jeton in Kosovo writes:

@ Sofia -- What are you talking about? Comparing South Ossetia or another place on Earth with Kosovo is total absurd. However I would compare this, Russia went in and attacked a democratic country, destroyed an entire city and generated thousands of refugees, ironically most of them South Ossetians who were manipulated by the Russian regime for the sole use of Kremlin interests. (Similar thing is happening in Northern Kosovo, with Serbs being manipulated by Belgrade).

NATO intervention in Kosovo returned about 1 Mil refugees back to their homes, and stopped the genocide and killings of civilians. (NOTE: Serbian Government Forces Killed over 10,000 civilians in less than 90 days starting January 1999).

Back to Russian aggression of Georgia: EU should answer this question, What good does the cheap gas is going to do for EU, if that cheap gas is going to fuel old Russian tanks?

Posted on Mon Aug 18, 2008

Sofia writes:

NONE !!!!!!! You have to live with this people for CENTURIES to know their culture and how to deal with them... Instead of Criticizing Russia why don't we recall american bombing of Serbia...

Posted on Sun Aug 17, 2008

Victoria in Canada writes:

It is a precarious position for a country to be in when it is both apart of a democratic association like NATO, and yet, has faithful democratic allies outside of NATO. Not to worry as the key to this predicament can be found in Sacred Scripture. However, one does not even have to dust off their copy of the Good Book-just take a long look at America's Great Seal. The eagle looks to peaceful means first and foremost. Now, it is going to take a divinely inspired, diplomatic, genius to maneuver Russia and Georgia out of this dilemma. Good luck Dr. Rice-hopefully you've said your prayers!

In respect to the dissenting countries in the international community of NATO, clearly they have all done too much by not allowing Georgia to begin the process for entrance into NATO; so, perhaps the only action each of these countries should take is to follow suite, by falling in line with a U.S. diplomatic solution. Finally, at this point in time, both NATO and non-NATO countries need to express neighborly charity by assisting Georgia's war-torn people with whatever peaceful means they have at their disposal.

Posted on Sun Aug 17, 2008

Robert in Wisconsin writes:

It seems to me that it should be difficult for President Bush to attack the Russian invasion of Georgia while we have invaded and continue to remain in Iraq. At a minimum the occupation of Iraq by US forces has stretched our military to the point that all we can do is object. The international community can only do what it did when we invaded Iraq. Complain.

Yes, I know, you are going to say that Iraq is different. But is it really?

Posted on Sun Aug 17, 2008

Joe in Tennessee writes:

PRAY....and be realistic.

Pounding our chest does not accomplish anything beyond show the futility of the position we are in due to lack of forsight and serves to only shore up Russia's power....

Downplay may be a better move and cancellation of orders for Russian goods with a UN decree.

Then again, were they realy going to open a steel mill in Ohio and employ 4,000 Americans?

Posted on Sun Aug 17, 2008

Helen in Georgia writes:

International community should be closely watching as well as listening to experienced people like Mr. Bzhezinski & "no assumptions" was Kremlin ever worried about its reputation?! Is it showing any signs of carrying about reputation damages today?!

Posted on Sun Aug 17, 2008

Robert in Florida writes:

Please forward this!

What Georgia needs is a paratrooper drop from as many countries as possible.

This will show solidarity and they will be compelled not to fire upon them.

One wave after another from Germany, France Belgium, Iraq, Turkey, Poland, Ukraine, Britain, U.S. Everyone into the capital city.

Will Russia go against the world ? Forget the UN do it on our own diplomacy.

Thanks.

Posted on Sun Aug 17, 2008

Allen in Virginia writes:

Hmm, so it was "quelling dissension" Georgia was up to in that breakaway province last Thursday night. It's enlightening that massed 122mm rocket fire on an urban area is useful for that. Now we know that the Soviets had the wrong method of "quelling dissension." If they had blasted dissidents apart with rocket fire, U.S. government would have gone along with it without making much fuss at all.

Posted on Sun Aug 17, 2008

Paul in Washington, DC writes:

Is the treaty just signed by the U.S. and Poland available online? There is a some concern that it could commit the U.S. to defend Poland if the Russians attacked the missile defense system about to be installed there, which the Russians will undoubtedly do. Could this cause a war no one wants, like what happened in 1914? No news reporter seems to have seen the actual treaty. Are its terms classified?

Posted on Sat Aug 16, 2008

Ron in New York writes:

U.S.G. should take a long hard look at itself.

This situation is unfortunate for the Georgians, but just what the doctor ordered for U.S. to recalibrate foreign policy.

Posted on Sat Aug 16, 2008

Michael in California writes:

@ Eric in New Mexico -- Eric - your analysis is appreciated: certainly there are deeper issues. I spent a few months in Georgia for work several years ago, and let me just say that it was awe-inspiring the way the proud Georgian culture flourished since the soviet occupiers left. Now they are back - pure and simple. Russia invaded Georgia again and is now occupying. There were once nukes in Georgia. Now there are none. Would Russia have invaded again if Georgia possessed those soviet-era nukes? unlikely. By not militarily supporting Georgia - standing toe-to-toe like we promised, and like Georgia did with US in Iraq, we are sending a VERY bad signal to our allies and potential allies: despite what you did for us, you are on your own when push comes to shove. We need to escalate the humanitarian aid. We need warships in and around Georgian ports. We need forcibly make the Russians BACK OFF if need-be. They invaded and are occupying our ally. Russian troops in Abkazia and S.Ossetia need to be replaced with UN blue helmets. I am very surprised the people of Abkazia and S. Ossetia even think Russia is 'on their side'. Integration with Georgia-proper is their best hope of sustained economic prosperity.

Posted on Sat Aug 16, 2008

Marian in New York writes:

Dear Secretary Rice:

Among the most disheartening events of this new, 21st Century, and we started it with many, is the throwback start of a war by the Russia against Georgia. Ever since the Mongols relinquished their control over it, Russia embarked on the imperialistic conquests of its neighbors, with perhaps the largest being a part of China's Manchu Province, with an area of 400,000 square miles.

This UN concepts violating Russian invasion may renew the once common violent aggression processes and re-establish such precedence, for others to follow.

In the present context, powerful, modernized and well organized but grossly overpopulated China may look north beyond the recently set boundaries on the Amur and Ussuri Rivers to the scarcely populated, once its own, lands.

Posted on Sat Aug 16, 2008

Kirk in Kentucky writes:

It is amazing to think that a tiny spot on the map has captivated the entire world. A spot you could drive through in an hours time.

First, I encourage everyone to read this very moving speech by Dimitri Sanakoev who is the head of the provisional government in S. Ossetia.

http://www.civil.ge/eng/article.php?id=15101see

As for the international community, here is my vision:

1. S. Ossetia and Abkhazia may be legitimate areas of Georgia but what also must be considered are the tenets of democracy which say that governance over the people can only be conducted with the consent of those people. To that end, I think that the EU and UN need to sit down with the president of Georgia, the heads of each provisional government, and come to a resolution. Visiting dignitaries from these major institutions will legitimize the heads of each of these areas and the international community will exert enormous pressure on the break away regions to agree to the creation a federation of states. These institutions must be firm in their explanation that no other country will recognize them or respect their sovereignty as they stand now, divided, but united on an equal level with each other they will have the support of the world.

2. Russian "peace-keeping" forces need to be removed. It is an improper relationship. While the S. Ossetians may think themselves independent, as long as they rely on their "comrades" for military backing they will only be a cat's paw for Russian interests. Peace-keeping duties should be a co-opperative force of French and German UN troops. The Germans and Russians seem to have a trustworthy working relationship and the French can help retain neutrality. We do not need to be involved.

3. Part of the treaty of confederacy will obligate S. Ossetia and Abkhazia to repay their debt to Russia in a timely fashion.

4. The role of the U.S. should be to support Russia in the press and through diplomatic means to allow Russia a chance to have a leading role and re-gain the favor of the world for their "flexibility and wisdom." We need to say, in essence, "We don't agree with what you did, but you can help make it right." Though some say they should be penalized for their use of excessive force, I think it will only aggravate the situation so instead we should set up a situation where they can save face, mend fences, and diffuse tensions. They will be giving up a strategic advantage by withdrawing their forces, so some other concessions may have to be made for them. I'm not trying to paint Russia as some innocent reactionary, they can be disingenuous, cunning, dangerous and they have their own plans and designs. But at the same time, the major differences between us, that of Communism and Representational Democracy, has largely dissolved, so now we can reframe our relationship. We need to reshape our relationship with Russia in a new light.

To quote Goethe:

"Treat a man as he is, he will remain so. Treat a man the way he can be and ought to be, and he will become as he can be and should be."

Russia is not a petulant child that needs to be disciplined for unruly behavior. We are not Russia's parents. But as long as that nation feels like it is being disrespected from international partners, that our new allies are slowly stacking up against them, they will act out to in an effort to gain respect through fear and secure their sphere of influence. One of the ways to show some one respect is to listen to them. And sometimes you do have to sacrifice short term strategic advantages for long term peace. Not always, but sometimes.

The second part for our side will be to also pressure the break away regions to form a federation and to pledge some economic assistance.

Fantasy as it may be, that's my plan and I'm sticking to it.

Now my brain hurts. So who else has their thinking cap on?

Posted on Sat Aug 16, 2008

Bruce in Illinois writes:

Russia used the pretext of Russian passport holders as justification for intervention. Couldn't the U.S.A. decide to temporarily revoke all prior U.S. visas by Russian passport holders as an executive order (not legislative changes)? In short, they now present a potential national security threat (as in Soviet days) which was not apparent at the time of their visa application - so declare that all the visas need to be replaced by new applications.

Require that they reapply to establish their eligibility again for new visas - only available through Embassy Moscow with Soviet-style bureucratic delays and difficulties while waiting for new guidance about who should qualify or not.

All Russian elites who plan travel to the USA would thus have their plans and business interests disrupted overnight. Inform the airlines that all prior visas for Russian passport holders are no longer valid for boarding US flights. Leave angry Russian travelers stranded.

Let those angry Russians stay home and complain to Putin about being treated like pariahs, rather than feeling proud or more powerful.

Encourage the EU to do the same - close the borders until there are satisfactory negotiations about Georgia. Not likely to happen - but even talking about it would send a signal that we can be creative in our response too. Let Russians worry about their ability to travel freely - now that they have business and investment interests elsewhere.

This has a more immediate, disproportionate, and more unexpected impact than arguing over complex economic sanctions, G8 expulsion, etc. Surprise Putin by doing unexpected but peaceful things which upset ordinary Russians.

How about introducing a motion in the UN General Assembly to have Russia expelled? It would never pass, but they would lose face by just exposing how many countries don't want to be pushed around by a Soviet-style regime again. Purely symbolic, but if they're going to start broadcasting lies about Cheney being the cause of the Georgia crisis, then we should be very creative in our response too.

Do very unexpected political and economic (not military) things - not the predictable diplomatic stuff which Putin already discounted as irrelevant before the invasion.

Think more like Gandhi and his general strikes against the British. Do non-violent things which suddenly and very unexpectedly disrupt Russian interests and cause them to lose face or appear weak in ways which are beyond their control - just as we have few good options for dealing with their disproportionate use of military power in Georgia.

Use our disproportionate economic power again - as Reagan did despite European misgivings - instead of accepting the myth that we are helpless to respond just because they export a lot of oil and gas or can allegedly be helpful rather than unhelpful with Iran. That's how Carter thought, and the media still does.

Do things which they don't expect, and don't want to continue, and then at some point we can talk again about getting back to a more reasonable relationship. Until then, we should work with friendly countries to do peaceful things which really aggravate the Russian people who admire Putin so much. Don't make a martyr out of him by trying to impose sanctions. Find more creative ways to make ordinary Russians soon feel that this move was a big mistake by him, no matter how much propaganda he puts out in response.

Posted on Sat Aug 16, 2008

Zharkov in U.S.A. writes:

Russia did not attack Georgia. Russia responded to a military attack. Everyone in Europe knows this by now.

The first thing this State Department can do is to stop lying about who began the war. Here are the facts that can be easily verified within the mainstream media, but are buried beneath the rhetoric of anti-Russianism.

1) Ossetia is a ninety percent Russian area. Georgia has made repeated efforts to ethnically cleanse the region. Russian peacekeeping troops have been in Ossetia for years and were approved in international agreements so as to protect the citizens of the region from attacks by the Georgian military.

2) Georgia, not Russia, started this war. Georgia invaded Ossetia trying to take control of the region and ethnically cleanse the Russian population.

3) The Georgian Army, trained by US and Israeli advisors, commanded by their Minister of Defense (who is also an Israeli citizen), launched a surprise invasion and attack that caused the deaths of at least a thousand people in its first 24 hours. This attack was committed while the attention of the world was on the Olympics.

4) In the wake of Georgia's military invasion and massacres, Russia responded by battling to protect the Ossetian people and fighting the Georgia military so it could not continue its invasion and assault. Thousands of Ossetian civilians became refugees from the Georgian assault.

5) Instead of reporting these facts to the world, our State Department and news media have been dishonestly reporting that the Georgian state is a victim of "Russian aggression" and a "Russian invasion."

It was Georgia that first invaded, bombed, and massacred the people of Ossetia to start this conflict. On the cable news networks for hours after the Georgian launched invasion and massacres in Ossetia, Americans were only permitted to see the Georgia President and U.S. State Department officials screaming about how Georgia was "invaded" by Russia!

Germany and the heads of state of most European countries completely disagree with our State Department's claim of Russian aggression.

One may argue whether Russia over-reacted, but that is a completely separate issue from who began the attack.

Posted on Fri Aug 15, 2008

SNP in Syria writes:

Why the U.S. is trying to fabricate a conflict in Georgia. The International community has no business interfering in Georgian-Russian affairs. Why the Israelis arming Georgia and sending army and security men to train Georgians in waging genocidal terrorist campaign against impoverished elderly, women and infants, when they are asking Iran and Syria to stop helping Lebanese resistance fighters fighting Israeli to regain occupied land. The disputed regions were really never Georgians, the inhabitants are not Georgians, they are Russians and they want to be part of Russia. The answer is clear, like Iraq, this is a resource war driven deceptively by false propaganda. Call it for real, the PIPELINES WAR.

Whoever is plotting all this mayhem in the Middle East and Central Asia is genocidal and ignorant indeed, a looser. Almost all the countries that are producing oil and gas would love to have Americans walk in and develop resources, they are ready to provide any aid needed for that endver. For these involved countries, the sale of resources represents more than 90 % of the entire State revenue. If they don't sell the resources, they will starve. And that is equally true for the transportation and its corridors, be it land or sea, the transit revenue is very attractive and needed.

So why use WAR as a modus-opri to gain the resources or secure its transportation. Why not use DEVELOPMENT and PROGRESS, economic incentives, investments as a tool, rather than bombs, genocides and terrorism that create the need for massive expenditures on armament and security.

Now you have your answer, this is not only a war to gain resources, this is a war were a group of very evil people that have majority ownership in both Oil and Armament industries have keen interest in plundering, genocides, creating conflicts and insecurities throughout the Middle East and Central Asia, soon later, in Southeast Asia as well, for purpose of selling arm, security gear and personnel, sell even own country interests to gain personal, legendary wealth of fabled Solomon riches.

They will fail miserably, unknowing to them; they are dragged, hooked by the jaw by their own greed and evil motivation to self destruct. In the Hebrew book of Ezekiel 38-39 you will find these words:

38:2. Son of man, set thy face against Gog, of the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him,
3. And you shall say; So said the Lord God: Behold, I am against you, Gog, the prince, the head of Meshech and Tubal.

Also, take note of the Quran text (Sura Al-Kahf):
"...But when Gog and Magog are let loose and they rush headlong down every height (or advantage). Then will the True Promise draw near" - (Qur'an 21:96-97).

Now: here are your keys to understand the participants in this final war 2012-2017, go do your Google homework, these are the nations involved in the coming great war of wars according to Ezekiel:

2. The sons of Japheth were:
Gomer, (Eurasian Steppes Caucasus, Black Sea),
Magog, (Scythia= Caspian Steppe, Kazakhstan, Ukraine, Azerbaijan, Georgia, Belarus, Poland and Bulgaria)
Madai, (Meads, Kurds)
Javan, (Northeastern Mediterranean Sea, Anatolia, Modern Cyprus, southern Turkey)
Tubal, (Georgians)
Meshech, ( Georgian Meskheti Moskova= Georgian king Mosokh/Meshech and his wife Kva, daughter Ya and Daughter Vuza= Yauza river in Moscow)

3. The sons of Gomer were:
Ashkenaz, (Ukraine-Central Asia),
Riphath, (Turkey),
Togarmah,(Georgian/Khazar).

Now, please don't tell me that this was written last week by some conspiracy theorists, you can go back more than 2000 years and you will find hand inscription of the above Ezekiel 38-39 text, even much more in the book of Daniel and the book of revelations. All together, they have described in full detail, the final unfolding events with great detail and accuracy. Here is what else you will find, that is a tale tale sign, who is the real Commander in Chief at work: "I will put a hook in the jaws of the Kings of the North and drag them unwilling to smash them against the kings of the south." It also says: In that day, I am angry at human ignorance and how easily they are deceived, that, in that day, I shall bring on them even greater deception, as punishment.

DIPNOTE: Please Publish, let readers research.

Posted on Fri Aug 15, 2008

Eric in New Mexico writes:

Since President Bush is going to be in Crawford a spell, I suggest he might get some positive results if he invites the heads of the G8 (Russia included) and any other concerned head of state that wishes to show up, and sit down to talk about the future we wish to create for ourselves.

I think it is time a clear understanding is reached, as Humanity has a vested interest in the matter.

What happened in Georgia is simply a symptom of a larger systemic problem of not properly dealing with long standing animosities.

The world is faced with a choice to let these old animosities continue to affect international relations in a dysfunctional manner, or the choice of engaging in group therapy.

Paranoia runs deep in societies capable of exterminating humanity. This symptom of collective insanity definitely needs to end.

How can we be good stewards of the planet otherwise?

Posted on Fri Aug 15, 2008

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