Question of the Week: Why are you or aren’t you buying green power?
Posted on May 27th, 2008 - 10:30 AMEach week we ask a question related to the environment. Please let us know your thoughts as comments. Feel free to respond to earlier comments or post new ideas. Previous questions.
Do you, your community, or your business purchase “green power“? If so, are you doing so voluntarily and how did you choose your electricity or gas provider? Are you happy with the results and the price you pay? Good return on investment? If you’re not, why not? Too much trouble? Not enough info available?
Why are you or aren’t you buying green power?
En español: Cada semana hacemos una pregunta relacionada al medio ambiente. Por favor comparta con nosotros sus pensamientos y comentarios. Siéntase en libertad de responder a comentarios anteriores o plantear nuevas ideas. Preguntas previas.
¿Acaso usted, su comunidad o su negocio compra “energía verde”? De ser así, ¿lo hace de manera voluntaria y cómo escogió su proveedor de servicio eléctrico/gas? ¿Está contento con los resultados del precio que usted paga? ¿Buenos réditos por la inversión? Si no está contento, ¿por qué no? ¿Es demasiado oneroso? ¿No hay demasiada información disponible?
¿Por qué está o no está comprando energía verde?
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Question of the Week
May 27th, 2008 at 11:43 am
Our primary energy supply is electric. We have one supplier, so we must buy what they provide, very little to no choice for green. The EPA should be promoting nuclear energy for the region.
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May 27th, 2008 at 11:44 am
Green Energy is not available where I live. I have contacted our energy company but there is nothing available in our State.
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May 27th, 2008 at 11:46 am
It is cheap, better for the environment and helps develop alternate energy sources that will benefit everybody. What I don’t understand is why anybody would not buy green power.
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May 27th, 2008 at 11:47 am
Green Power is not offered by our provider. It’s a shame and my company thinks it is too expensive to buy into it. That is a great shame also.
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May 27th, 2008 at 11:48 am
Why don’t you ask China or India? They are 1/3 of the world population. All we americans do is use product without thought.
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May 27th, 2008 at 11:48 am
1) If San Diego Gas and Electric provides green power, then I am buying it. If they are not, then oh well. I am connected to their grid, I don’t think I have a choice in that.
2)
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May 27th, 2008 at 11:49 am
I’m not buying green power because I’m concerned about rapid spikes in the price– but even more so because I’m not confident that the money I pay will go to projects I support. I do not believe that every green project that is approved, permitted and built is a project that I would support. I realize the same can easily be said of conventional fuels….but I think that the percieved imperative to develop renewable capacity, and the challenges of doing so are sometimes played to subborn rational concerns and dispense with optimal designs, impact mitigation, etc. The incentivization of renewable projects, the dispensations that they are given and particularly the presumption that they are necessary set forth by the portfolio standard in my state, are too much for me to ‘buy in’ to at present.
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May 27th, 2008 at 11:50 am
We pay a premium to get wind power at home from Excel Energy. As for whether or not it’s worth it - it is to us since we have the extra income, but I question why we have to pay a premium since Excel is required by law to be investing in alternative energy anyway - we are just improving thier profit margin. It’s not like those specific electrons from the wind turbines travel to our house.
I wish the US Congress would take a que from HGTV’s slogan - “make a difference, start at home”. They should take the money they spent on Iraq and buy everyone solar panels instead so we are less dependent on OPEC.
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May 27th, 2008 at 11:52 am
I bought 100% green power to meet my family’s goal of reducing our greenhouse gas emissions by at least 5% every year. It was really easy. You can just go to the EPA Green Power “Locator” page (http://www.epa.gov/greenpower/pubs/gplocator.htm ) and click on the map. What’s kinda neat (although not literally true) is every 6 months the utility sends me a note telling me where my green power came from. Two years ago it was all reclaimed landfill gas. Now it’s a mix of hydro and wind.
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May 27th, 2008 at 11:54 am
Yes, we do purchase green power. We do not have a choice of providers for electricity, but voluntarily chose to buy blocks of green power. The cost has decreased twice in the last year, so that it sells at a very small marginal increase above coal generated electricity rates. If the costs of pollution from coal were actually included in the cost of electricity, the wind-generated electricity would actually be cheaper.
We also generate some PV electricity at home; the biggest impediment to generating more is the up-front infrastructure cost. A secondary impediment is the lack of contractor/advisors who truly understand how to integrate our current system with solar and wind. We will not be going off-grid, so that makes integration more complicated.
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May 27th, 2008 at 11:56 am
I live in an apartment building so my choices for green energy is limited to what the eletric company offers. So far, I don’t have a choice between coal, wind or solar. What are urban renters to do?
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May 27th, 2008 at 11:57 am
I don’t think we have enough time to buy green power. Our company is too busy flying people around touting “sustainability” to actually practice it.
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May 27th, 2008 at 11:59 am
Buying “green power” has always seemed to me to be analogous to buying indugences offered by the Church in the middle ages. Instead of actually doing something to conserve or reduce energy, the more affluent in our society can purchase “green power” to offset their conspicuous consumption of energy and salve their consciences.
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May 27th, 2008 at 11:59 am
Thanks for reminding me to sign up! It is about $10 extra per energy block with the TVA Cooperative I get power from. I only use the smaller block amount, so I am willing to pay an extra $10 to be green. :) Thanks for the reminder!
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May 27th, 2008 at 12:04 pm
Hi,
I work in R6 and live in the DFW area Our power provider is the Trinity Valley Electric Co-op. Unfortunately, TX state law allows co-op electricity providers to opt out of allowing their customers to select another power provider so we’re stuck with coal fired electricity. However, my co-op does allow grid tie-in of a wind turbine and we’re seriously looking into that. The major stumbling block on the turbine is the subdivision restrictions, which is a problem for a lot of folks. I believe if we had some type of federal incentive to encourage individuals to install solar or wind AND a federal/state law that trumps the subdivision restrictions, you’d see a lot more of these type of installations.
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May 27th, 2008 at 12:09 pm
We do buy green power, again, and it is always voluntary. We started this initially when it was first introduced through a United Illuminating insert. When the prices with UI sky-rocketed, we temporarily cancelled the plan. Since then we have contracted Conn Edison to be our supplier at a lower rate and we have restarted our green power. With that we will still come out lower than straight UI. It is a good feeling knowing our electricity comes from wind and hydro and not from the burning of fossil fuels. It is never any trouble to change suppliers or add green power; it is just a simple phone call away.
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May 27th, 2008 at 12:09 pm
I don’t think I’m using green power. I’m not really sure how to purchase it.
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May 27th, 2008 at 12:10 pm
We live in Arlington, Virginia, and would love to purchase green power for our home, but don’t believe it’s an option that’s available to us. Are we wrong? Can we purchase green power in our area? If so, how?
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May 27th, 2008 at 12:11 pm
I don’t think people know enough about alternatives. Education is the key.
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May 27th, 2008 at 12:13 pm
Green Power is available from my provider. If it were, it would depend on the additional expense. I want to do my part, but with the economy the way it is, I live paycheck to paycheck.
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May 27th, 2008 at 12:18 pm
I buy green power so I’m not supporting the dirty coal fired power plants around Ohio and West Virginia. My “green power” source is landfill gas. Although it is not carbon neutral, it does reduce GHG emissions overall since methane has a higher global warming potential than CO2, and would otherwise go to waste.
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May 27th, 2008 at 12:21 pm
Lack of information and knowledge. I need to research my options as I am unfamilar with what is offered by my provider. The EPA website is a good start to aquire this knowledge. Thanks.
How would I know? I am part of Dominion Power so, if they are involved in the “green power” - am I? Or is it something I have to sign up for?
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May 27th, 2008 at 12:27 pm
In Texas, we have the option to choose our electric power provider. I chose GreenMountain because they offered 100% wind generated electricity to add to the grid. The price is competitive with other providers in Texas. There’s also a “feel good” factor being able to support green power.
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May 27th, 2008 at 12:31 pm
We, in Peoria, Illinois, are given no choice of power providers for home use. Businesses have some choice. We who are residents of the city also have no choice of cable providers or water source.
We could only benefit if competition could be mandatory. We are subject to “Home Rule” which means that such things are decided by the the city council and never reach a ballot.
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May 27th, 2008 at 12:38 pm
I, as an individual, purchase green power through my local utility. The price is reasonable and I mainly participate in these green power incentives because I am a member of a voluntary environmental leadership program here in my state.
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May 27th, 2008 at 12:47 pm
I would like to use green power at home, however it is cost prohibited at this time. To run my home on wind or solar power would require a substantial amount of money up front to purchase the turbine and/or solar panels. My electric company does not give me a green power option. I have enough land to install a wind turbine on my property to power my entire neighborhood, however the financial and political roadblocks don’t make it feasible. If the local and/or federal government would provide a substantial subsidy, tax incentives, remove political barriers, and barriers with the electric companies, then I would be thrilled to be the first in my city to install a wind turbine and solar panels.
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May 27th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
I’m a residential customer who supports power purchases by PSE&G (NJ) from Sterling Planet. According to PSE&G, Sterling Planet’s portfolio is 33% wind, 33% small hydro, and 34% landfill gas. According to PSE&G, “…each household that participates in the CleanPower Choice Program can avoid over 10,000 lbs. of CO2 emissions per year, which is equivalent to planting 1.35 acres of trees!” Over the last year, my per month “green power” fee has averaged about $5.00. I have urged people to participate in the program. Even if PSE&G’s emissions-avoided data are optimistic, the choice is a no-brainer for anyone concerned about the environment.
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May 27th, 2008 at 12:59 pm
The opportunity to buy green power is restricted severely based on the way the grid structure is set up. Many places only offer one provider. Many providers are making their power generation procecdures greener, but totally green power is not available to all. The company that my power comes from uses a multitude of sources to generate their power, so while I may be using power from a one company their sources may be green and not green. If all providers were to go green the price of generation would spike and those price spikes would be passed on to the consumer. Until the fear of nuclear goes away there aren’t a whole lot of sufficent means of generating totally green power that would meet the demand. The initial start up cost and variable output rates are some obstacles that prevent the average consumer from generating their own green power. This is especially true when energy and food prices are at record levels and many are just trying to get by.
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May 27th, 2008 at 1:00 pm
I purchase enough green power to cover 100% of my home electrical consumption even though my utility regular power supply is already 85% renewable (hydro and wind) and 95% carbon free (10% nucs). I do this for four reasons: 1)my electrically heated home is so efficient already (solar water heater, high insulation airtight construction, passive solar space heating and radiant hydronic floor heat) it doesn’t really cost me much ($12 extra per month) to pay the 40% premium to get all green power, 2) I commute 25 miles each way to work in a SOV so I consider my green power purchases as offsets for my transportations sins, 3) it’s the right thing to do, and last but, not least 4) it gives me boasting rights late at night at the local bar. Those are good enough reasons for me. What about you?
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May 27th, 2008 at 1:00 pm
I would like to buy “Green Fuel E85″ but it is not available here in New Jersey. What are you doing to ensure that all Americans can purchase clean, renewable fuel made from our farmers’ fields-Rain and Sunshine Free!
I believe the from going to the US EPA website you promote E85, but I see our government needs to mandate that an E85 pump must be at every gasoline station in the entire USA.
With the ever increasing price of gasoline at the pumps there are over 8 million flex fuel vehicles that can purchase E85 from $2.35 per gallon to $2.76 per gallon depending on where you live in the country. This is a savings from $1.80 to $1.39 per gallon versus regular unleaded gasoline. I just don’t get it.
http://www.E85prices.com
We as a country need to move as fast as we can to biofuels and keep our dollars right here in our country and save our economy.
Green jobs cannot be exported to foreign countries.
Susan Ruch, New Jersey
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May 27th, 2008 at 1:02 pm
In Western Oregon, we have green power options for both electric and natural gas. I purchase the green option for both, the electric costs less than $20 more per month on high months but generally it’s <$10 more for our usage. $2.50 of which goes The Nature Conservancy. Our electric option only invests in Solar, wind and biomass. More recently, they are investing in wave energy research. To learn more see the Pacific Power website. Our gas company’s green option has resulted in an increase of <$10. I do not have an accurate recollection of the details of their program and the nwnatural website doesn’t have the information prominently displayed. Regardless, I’m glad that our community has these options and I proudly advertise that I purchase these options. We also make sure we purchase energy efficient appliances and use compact florescent bulbs where ever possible. Bare in mind we do not have a large home, but it is well insulated and has updated windows.
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May 27th, 2008 at 1:15 pm
It’s just another way to tax people and industries. Too much government.
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May 27th, 2008 at 1:18 pm
The availability of greenpower is not marketed enough by the local and regional utilities. I think if more people were aware of its availability, there would be many more investors or purchasers of renewable energies.
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May 27th, 2008 at 1:21 pm
I live in PA. My community offered optional electricity from windmills for an increase of 7 cents per kWh. I declined because it is very frustrating that buying or building green always involves more cost and not less. In 2006, I looked into buying a hybrid car, which would have cost almost $20,000 more than the standard car I ended up purchasing. Recycle paper costs more than virgin paper (no recycle content), and the costs to implement green improvements to my home are astronomical (solar energy, rainwater capture, etc.). state grants or rebates are either insignificant, or require an approved contractor to do the install, which drives the cost higher. I want to do the right thing environmentally, but who has the cash to do it? I don’t.
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May 27th, 2008 at 1:24 pm
At home, we switched to wind power several months ago [100% new wind] - buying it through our electric company. It is simple and is reflected in a 2.5 cent per KWH increase on our monthly electric bill. My wife and I are doing it because it is the right thing to do, and the increased cost is less than $10/month. We’ve also bought a new, more efficient furnace for heating, added insulation, replaced our lightbulbs with compact fluorescents, and replaced our windows with ones that are more energy
efficient. Our total home energy costs have decreased substantially, even with the slightly higher price for the wind powered electricity. We in the environmental field need to lead the way by example!
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May 27th, 2008 at 1:38 pm
I do not pay extra for “green power” and replaced only the high watt incandescant bulbs which are on for extended periods of time for security reasons.
A little simple math will tell you that much of this conservation emphasis is political rather than practical.
Let’s use what we need without sacrificing health, comfort, or convenience….but at the same time, let’s not waste it.
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May 27th, 2008 at 1:43 pm
Green power is not abundent in my area. Solar power is expensive but you will get reimbursed by the power compay on some of the money converting to solar power. I use conventional power. It is expensive and getting more so every year. If I could convert to any other power source at a reasonable cost, I would do it in a heart beat.
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May 27th, 2008 at 1:53 pm
I voluntary contribute to my electric utility’s “GreenPower” program. My tax-deductible contribution goes directly toward the purchase of renewable energy from independent generators located in my State. Each block costing $4.00 adds 100 kilowatt-hours of green energy to the power supply in my State. This cost is included as an item in my monthly electric bill.
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May 27th, 2008 at 2:04 pm
We don’t have the “green option” in our area. I wish going green was an easier and more affordable option.
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May 27th, 2008 at 2:16 pm
the reason I cannot use solar, or wind, or anything else green is because it is not affordable for people like myself solely living on Social Security Disability. I am stuck between a rock and a hard place being punished now because I worked my Butt off and paid alot into the system. My Disability exceeds the maximum requirement for any type of Energy Assistance programs. the law should be if you are permanently disabled you should be eligible for the same assistance that anyone else gets regardless of maximum allowable amount caps.
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May 27th, 2008 at 2:18 pm
Our electric utility in Boulder, CO is Xcel Energy. Our family gets all our electricity from WindSource. We have made a commitment to reducing our carbon footprint. We also own a Prius, which, as gasoline prices continue to rise (as I believe they will), will become an economically favored option. We are looking into buying carbon offsets also to cover carbon emissions associated wtih travel and domestic natural gas use so we would haze a zero footprint.
In addition to the climate change concerns, we are also concerned about the health and visibility impacts associated with coal-fired power plants, from which about half of our power in the US originates. EPA has estimated that 30,000 premature fatalities per year (and many more hospitalizations, doctor visits, and asthma attacks) are caused by secondary fine particulate formed in the atmosphere from sulfur and nitrogen oxide power plant emissions. To the extent these emissions are controlled and/or offset through renewable energy, such health effects will be reduced.
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May 27th, 2008 at 2:31 pm
It is availabe in my area but I don’t purchase any green power because I generate it at my home with a 3KW battery charging/grid-tied wind generator. While it doesn’t supply enough electrcity to meet 100% of our needs, it offsets what we use from the electrical cooperative.
More Agency employees should starting “walking the walk” and start installing renewable energy sources at home!!! Solar electric (PV), wind, microhydro, solar heated domestic water and solar space heating are all viable sources, even at the higher lattitudes in the US (I live on the 47th parallel and will be installing a PV array in the next year). There are numerous Federal, State and utility incentives available to help defray/recoup the cost of installing a system.
One place to start is the Database of State Incentives for Renewables and Efficiency website at: http://www.dsireusa.org/
No need to start your PV system big. Install some panels and an inverter and make sure the design is capable of future expansion. Add more panels in the future.
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May 27th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
I purchase green power through an electric company. I am happy to do so. I purchase 200 kwh/month for $5.00. I would love to have a solar powered water heater. Need to research and explore options. Geothermal installation is cost prohibited. Most likely will upgrade to heat pump/gas furnance hybrid in the future. Although I would much prefer geothermal.
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May 27th, 2008 at 3:30 pm
I believe that the current green energy programs do little or nothing to reduce our nation’s environmental footprint. This will not change until people begin to understand that true improvements can only be realized when you commit yourself to reduction rather than alternative sourcing.
It is hard for me to take people seriously when they are bragging about their green power and still buy gas hogs. Likewise, it is hard to understand why a large number of urban and suburban communities do not allow clotheslines yet they extol the value of paying a few cents more for green power. If people took these matters seriously, there would be a lot of changes. As things are, it just seems that’s its more of the same rhetoric that I’ve heard for the last 40 years.
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May 27th, 2008 at 3:32 pm
Whether it’s oil, gas, electricity, wind, or water powered - solar power from the sun was the initial source of this energy - and is the solution for our future needs.
We’re just getting around to figuring out that solar power is the solution… which plants figured out billions of years ago!
Q: Why isn’t everyone going to green power?
Answer #1: Cash flow, or lack thereof - at least for the average person or small business. Incentives are temporary, and involve risk, as the consumer or business must outlay large amounts of money and wait for a relatively small rebate. If a significant amount of money was handed out in advance, like a stimulus check, more people could afford to go green. Tax breaks are helping, but mostly for big business only.
Answer #2: Current political power in this world is derived from political support from big energy companies. Some oil/gas-related businesses will lose their power hold on society if green power begins to fluorish. To the companies who profit from oil, coal and natural gas, green energy is only competition that will result in lower profits.
These companies have mastered the “confusion bomb” technique, purposely confusing the populace through unsuspecting media outlets (i.e., big snow year = no global warming), so the average person doesn’t know who or what is right from wrong.
Thus, minimal economic incentives are not enough to overcome the confusion over whether green power is a long or short-term solution. So, we don’t demand greener choices. As an ex-EV1 lessee, the death of the electric car is symbollic of the problem = good green technology that was “exterminated” to hide the fact it was a viable solution!
Green power will only prevail when the sun’s energy can be harnessed, bought and sold for huge profits - like a commodity!
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May 27th, 2008 at 3:43 pm
I purchase 300 kwh of wind power a month from my local utility. The additional cost is $3 or 3 cents per kwh. This is a voluntary program and very popular.
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May 27th, 2008 at 3:51 pm
I buy Nuclear, its the fastest way to put an end to fossil fuel power plants that cause global warming. Becasue thats what we are all after “right” saving our planet from global warming. So lets support the only real alternative to fossil fuels.
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May 27th, 2008 at 4:09 pm
This is a sham. Utilities have sold coal, gas, nuclear and hydro source power for decades without charging their customers differently for various energy sources. Nuclear source power was high tech and more expensive than conventional sources at first too. Historically, the costs of all the energy sources used by a utility was allocated across the utility’s customer base. Why, except to sell sizzle, start now?
Also, public utility commissions (PUCs) already require their utilities to generate increasing amounts of power from renewable sources. The PUCs also approve the price structures that utilities charge for that power. If the PUCs support different prices based on the source of the energy, then why not set prices to favor demand for the power from less harmful sources?
For example, Italy offered both leaded and unleaded fuels for sale to the public, but since the unleaded fuel cost a few cents more, sales were sluggish. When Italy finally made a policy decision to set the price of leaded fuel higher than unleaded, the sale of unleaded fuel took off.
I see no reason for PUCs to allow utilities to charge different prices for the power entering our homes based solely on the energy source. The PUCs are already requiring their utilities to move to Green energy sources. Don’t complicate it by giving the utilities ammo to claim “Our customers aren’t willing to pay for new Green technology.” They didn’t ask us to pay a premium for any other new technology. We needn’t pay a penalty for moving forward with Green source energy.
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May 27th, 2008 at 4:44 pm
Green power is not available where we live, or we would definitely buy it. Our electric company sells “credits” that support green initiatives in other places, but we cannot afford them in addition to our regular electric bill.
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May 27th, 2008 at 4:50 pm
I am all for green power, but is the government really intrested in going green or is it a way to create more useless government programs. In 93 the hype was “no more yardwaste in landfills” but after the state epa and local county government established programs to create recycling programs, yard waste was all but forgotten; recycling became on paper only and the companies left to take of recycling was regulated so heavily many of them went out of business because they could not make a dollar. I believe the government should foot the bill on recycling, which includes paying private companies to recycle.
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May 27th, 2008 at 6:49 pm
To all who say it is not available in your area, you are not quite right. Do you have a roof on your house? Then you have the ability to use solar power. With tax credits, proper financing, and net metering (utility buyback of customer generated power) it can even be a positive cashflow investment from day one.
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May 27th, 2008 at 7:59 pm
To Better Nate than Lever:
If utilities are required by their states to generate power from renewable resources, then, yes, charging a premium would probably not be allowed. However, if a utility voluntarily purchases green power from another company, it is providing an extra service to its own customers. Companies that generate alternative power are doing so at a higher cost than conventional generators; therefore, it costs more. (Although I understand the price is gradually coming down because of competition.) I’m not in the habit of defending utility companies, but I believe you are confusing the issue.
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May 27th, 2008 at 8:38 pm
i am not buying green power since its not available in normal cost. In my point of view there is not much concern about green power in the production sector. They are not caring for the environment and they are concerning only about the profit. if the green power is available in nominal cost then i will definetly buy it
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May 27th, 2008 at 9:34 pm
Yes, I buy green power.
The problem with this, as I see it, is that this does nothing to reduce the increase in megawatt production for the utility. Energy consumption still increases annually, so my utility’s “bad” energy production–coal, nuclear, etc–continues to increase even as more wind and solar goes online.
On my end, I’m making the commitment to alternative energy, but on my utility’s end, they still increase their annual production of greenhouse gases, etc through annual increases in emissions from coal, etc.
So how is this changing things?
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May 27th, 2008 at 10:19 pm
I want solar panels on my roof. I want a hydrogen-powered motorhome. But the money interests that control our country and our politicians get rich from oil and coal. It is not in their interests to make solar and hydrogen power available.
–DAle Armstrong, retired EPA press officer
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May 27th, 2008 at 11:20 pm
Wow. So many excuses NOT to do what’s right simply because one or two things went wrong in the past. Grow up and stop bellyaching…you wouldn’t jump off the Brooklyn Bridge if your friends did, or maybe you should.
In our area, we have the option to choose our providers and the sources of energy…and we’re in a red state, y’all.
We are 100% wind in our home and it suprisingly does not cost us much more per kWh than the coal-fired option (maybe $0.01 more per kWh) at this point. Even if it cost us twice as much, we would still do it!
If you think living without money is hard, try living without breathable air. At least we can look at the kids and say “we tried”.
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May 28th, 2008 at 1:12 am
We can’t avail green power as electricity is supplied. But yes of course many Indian rural areas are opting for biomass and biogas power whereas urban people are fast opting for solar power. people are prefering to put solar plates on the rooftop But the all this has just started as solar plates are a bit expensive it shall take time to enter every household.
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May 28th, 2008 at 7:08 am
I live in a sustainable living demonstration home with a wind turbine and we’re set up to feed the grid (which we do most of the time). Unfortunately, green power is not an option for any one else in my area.
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May 28th, 2008 at 8:37 am
WELL SAID “NATE THAN LEER”. THis whole “GREEN” crap is marketing, and the greeniacs have been “bought and sold”. Solar Photovoltaic Panels, and Windmills actually “cost less” than the coal and natural gas producers. If you really want “green Power” we need to have an offset like Austin, Texas has with 2/3 of the price of residential house Solar and Wind generator systems are paid for. We need a 50% to 75% tax offset for residential power generation at the source of the majority of energy use. Plain and simple. Therefore the “green power surcharge” is only lining the PUCs pockets and it must be exposed for the sham it is. This is akin to giving the oil companies an extra 5 bucks per tank for oil. Give the “POWER TO THE PEOPLE” not to corporations. Just imagine “In an absolut world” there would be no power bills. So “Nate than Lever” had the best and most accurate statment.
The rest of you are mindless “Sheeple” following a bad idea and giving yourselves warm fuzzies for doing the wrong thing.
“This is a sham. Utilities have sold coal, gas, nuclear and hydro source power for decades without charging their customers differently for various energy sources. Nuclear source power was high tech and more expensive than conventional sources at first too. Historically, the costs of all the energy sources used by a utility was allocated across the utility’s customer base. Why, except to sell sizzle, start now?
Also, public utility commissions (PUCs) already require their utilities to generate increasing amounts of power from renewable sources.
I see no reason for PUCs to allow utilities to charge different prices for the power entering our homes based solely on the energy source. The PUCs are already requiring their utilities to move to Green energy sources.”
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May 28th, 2008 at 8:38 am
Boycott “Purchasing Green Power”.
P{omote individual “Green Power Generation” with Solar and Wind, and get laaws to support “We the People” and NOT “They the Corporation”.
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May 28th, 2008 at 8:44 am
My power company offers a GreenCurrent program where you can pay more to have all or some of your power come from renewables. I signed up for 100% renewables. It does cost more, but not enough to make me question doing it. Our electric bill was never very high to begin with. I am an employee of my power company and I work in the Environmental Department, so I figured I had better put my money where my mouth is!
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May 28th, 2008 at 9:03 am
Strange as it may sound, I don’t use enough electricity to participate in my provider’s wind power program! For a set price your first so many kWh come from wind, but I don’t use that much, so I would be paying for energy I’m not using. If they change the program, I will participate.
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May 28th, 2008 at 9:21 am
I look forward to buying wind power later this summer when my energy provider will start letting me buy energy from a wind farm in the region. It will cost a few dollars more a month, but as economies of scale develop in the green energy sector I hope it becomes a more affordable option for more and more people.
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May 28th, 2008 at 9:43 am
I don’t buy green power becuase the ROR per Kwh is so poor. My power comes from the South Texas Nuclear Project. The energy flux density of nuclear power vs renewable power (solar/wind) is 70 times greater per dollar spent. I believe as a previous commentor mentioned that the key to reducing greenhouse gases needs to begin in the the design of homes/apartments we live in, the buildings we work in, the transportation we use etc… Powered by the wind or sun makes us FEEL good but it is a poor use of capital and will never sustain the worlds need for energy.
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May 28th, 2008 at 10:33 am
I’m not aware of many alternative providers where i live. A life of living in the solution is not available, my way of living is dependent on causing the problem.
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May 28th, 2008 at 10:39 am
I asked my power company about it, but its not available in my area. People in the Northern part of the stat have the option of buying a percentage of there engergy from renewable sources.
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May 28th, 2008 at 11:10 am
Where I live in my own home, we have one electric supplier and one natural gas supplier. No choice. We are going to try to build a solar gain hot water tank this summer to make better use of the sun’s heat and override (at least a little bit) our over consumption of fossil fuels. We are also contemplating investing in a couple of hot water on demand boxes for kitchen and bathroom.
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May 28th, 2008 at 1:05 pm
we are lucky that in colorado we DO have the option to purchase windpower. in fact the program is so popular that we have maxed out the wind farm that provides the power and now the utility has to purchase green credits while we wait for addtional wind turbines to be constructed with in the exsisting wind farm. the demand is there and the increase in cost is minimal to the end consumer.
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May 28th, 2008 at 1:14 pm
We have been getting our power from Green Mountain Energy for a couple of years now. The main reason is to be responsible for the full cost of the electricity we use rather than forcing everyone else to pick up the hidden costs of ignoring the consequences of using power generated by burning fossil fuels or nuciear power. It is a profound failure of our political and industrial leadership that alternatives have been ignored for so long.
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May 28th, 2008 at 1:50 pm
I live in NJ where we do not have a choice in energy companies, but our company DOES offer a choice in which energy we use. It was very easy, I just went to NJ’s Clean Energy Choice program website and chose my provider (90% wind, 10% low-impact hydro) and they send the information to JCP&L. Now, I have a new line item on my bill which indicates the premium for clean energy choice. It’s about 8% of the bill.
I am stongly opposed to talks of building new nuclear plants. They present a significant security risk as they are very sensitive to attack and could kill millions of people in nearby areas.
Let’s make a difference — let’s be cleaner!! Other countries do it, we’re not a leader anymore — let’s get with the times!!
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May 28th, 2008 at 2:45 pm
We have a total-electric home, but live in a small town and take what is offered, whether green or not. We are working very hard to get the house in the most efficient condition possible, the one thing we can do. The thing that troubles me most about all of this is that back in the 70’s we went through the same sort of thing we are currently experiencing but on a cheaper scale. Time passed, and nothing changed. So many people had good ideas then, as now; yet nothing is done on a large scale. We continue to rely primarily on fossil fuels for all our energy needs because so many people operate under the delusion that “It won’t work . . .” instead of just getting the job done. To beat this dependency, we need more than many willing citizens and entrepreneurs. We need the support of government AND those corporations that literally hold us captive. The line, from the top down, needs to be “YES we can!”
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May 28th, 2008 at 3:02 pm
Yes, I agreed to buy $10/month of windpower. The amount per month charged varies though. Not sure why.
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May 28th, 2008 at 4:20 pm
You folks who pay extra for green power DO realize that you are not actually getting “your” power from a green source, right? You may be getting power from a system that has multiple sources of generation, but the power distributed to your house is simply out of the total pool. They can’t slice your allotment of power from a green source and package it to be sent to you. You’re getting the same thing that the guy next door who doesn’t pay for green power is getting.
So even if you think you are buying 100% of your power from a green source, it’s still just coming off the same grid as everything else. Only difference is that you are paying extra for it!
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May 28th, 2008 at 5:12 pm
I think a great way to find out how to purchase or convert green energy is to first call your local utility/power provider. Most companies have programs now that promote renewable energy. Depending on which state you live in, you can find out the right plan for you. My current provider is FPL in Florida and there is a solar energy program that you can opt to use. I agree we need to get with the times. Most large corporations are sustainable, but what about the thousands of small businesses that are the backbone of our country? They need to get with it..sooner than later.
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May 28th, 2008 at 6:45 pm
We don’t do “Green Power” now because we plan to move to another state, other than California, to retire. When we are in place we plan to employ as many kinds of green devices as possible: solar panels, water reclamation from roof, electric car, energy saving appliances, drop ceilings for less cubic inches to cool and heat, organic & hydroponic gardening, double pane windows, low flow faucets and toilets, just to name a few.
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May 28th, 2008 at 8:39 pm
“You folks who pay extra for green power DO realize that you are not actually getting “your” power from a green source, right?”
This is exqusite and shows the stupidity of the current crop of green “sheeple” whom actually think if they pay a dollare more to clear their conscience, that the electrons know the difference of their orgin of voltaqge differential.
It is laughable, and you are getting hosed.
TAX CREDITS for individuals to have solar panels and miniturbines installed in their homes that they own, and a national rollback of HomeOwnerAssociation rules preventing a homeowner from installing energy generating equimpment.
If you really wanna change the dynamic, and the generation source, give the ability to the people, and let them generate their own energy. That is sustainability, generating what you use at the source, if it works for tomatoes, it certianly works for electricity!!!!
It makes no sense to make corps richer in order to enslave us more. C’mon people WAKE UP!!
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May 28th, 2008 at 10:12 pm
I purchase electricity for my home and home office from Green Mountain Energy in Texas. It’s 90% hydro and 10% wind. I like the fact that I’m not contributing to the poor air quality situation in our non-attainment area in Dallas/Fort Worth. As an environmental educator and consultant, it makes a difference to my clients, too!
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May 28th, 2008 at 11:22 pm
The conversation so far is very interesting, and we greatly appreciate the thoughtful responses!
Please continue to share your thoughts, either in support of or against green power, but please do so without insulting others. Your arguments will carry more weight filled with facts, not attacks.
Also, we’ve received a few comments that link to private companies. We want to hear from you, but please don’t include advertising links.
As a reminder, here’s our comment policy.
Thanks!
Jeffrey Levy
Greenversations administrator
US EPA
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May 29th, 2008 at 1:18 pm
I suspect a household’s ability to purchase green power is based on whether local/state agencies where they live mandate a single monopoly provider for residential purchasers (which would likely sell power from a mix of traditional generation sources) or allows competition in the residential retail market. If there is competition, then someone can offer various generation mixes, including green power. Even if you don’t have residentail choice, you can always buy RECs(renewable energy credits). To see what retail choices and RECs are available in your area and for an explanation of RECs goto a Department of Energy web site: http://www.eere.energy.gov/greenpower/buying/buying_power.shtml
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May 29th, 2008 at 7:32 pm
In Texas the state requires that every provider of elec power use a certain amount of “renewable” generation. The percent required exceeds the total power from wind or other sources of that type. So all the wind and other renewable power that can be generated now is already going into the grid.
Charging people for “green” power is nothing more than a ripoff in Texas. Whether you sign up for greenpower or not doesn’t affect how much of the power gets generated that way.
T.Boone Pickens has started a HUGE windfarm project in Texas. It is not driven by the customer demand, it’s driven by the overall elec demand and the fact that it can be generated that way cheaper and with less uncertainty than with coal or gas fired generation.
I don’t know what the factors and economics are elsewhere but in Texas it’s just a marketing scam. And I actually DID sign up for all-wind at one point before I found this out.
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May 29th, 2008 at 8:55 pm
i have been considering learning about green power and perhaps getting it, but just recently i was told that someone in my area (hudson valley, New York state) was getting green power, but Central Hudson - the one and only utility source - was charging $300.00/mo to send him the utilities. He was told there is no regulations on local companies.
How can this be? this is really discouraging. What can be done? If this is the case, I wouldn’t be interested in green power, no matter what. Who can afford that?
Would be grateful for a reply.
Cathie C
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May 30th, 2008 at 6:18 pm
I receive all of my energy from PG&E here in California. They utilize hydro, solar, and wind as well as burning natural gas to generate electricity. Problem is that wind has a downside in that many birds are killed by turbine blades. The wind farm operators at Altamont Pass are now shutting down at certain times of the year. Most of the dams were removed from CA rivers to acceed to environmental demands for “free rivers”. Solar is not terribly efficient and is costly for an individual, despite the CA “a million solar roofs” project.
When you get right down to it, all methods have plus and minus attributes. Even nuclear should be part of the mix. Does anyone see beauty in a wind farm or acres of solar panels? Think it through, please.
BillC
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May 30th, 2008 at 8:26 pm
I paid extra for a couple of years to purchase green power from our local company and only power choice, PGE. Unfortunately, 42% of my power still comes from burning coal and none from alternative sources. They claimed the money was used for development of alternative energy. We passed a bill last summer requiring that 25% of Oregon’s energy come from alternative sources by 2025, but I don’t see us being on track if I can’t even buy it for my home today. How do we get it now?
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June 1st, 2008 at 1:35 pm
In Tulsa, Ok., there is a green directory that directs one to a site to purchase wind power (OG&E). At the site they tell you they are out of wind power and you can’t get on a waiting list because they already have one that is too long. I am not happy with my energy bills and yesterday’s paper said the electric bill will be going up even more. I inquired about putting solar panels on my roof, but was told it would cost 12,000 to tie into the city grid.
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June 2nd, 2008 at 7:50 am
Our electric provider started offering the option of buying alternative energy credits in December, but that doesn’t actively change how electricity is sourced. I think the program is scheduled to last only a year [presumably ended once all the credits are sold]. Regardless, buying the credits doesn’t actually mean our power comes from renewables. All electricity still comes primarily from coal with a small percentage of nuclear. I’d rather my money went to switching the supply from coal to other sources or research renewable technologies within my state. If our electric provider really cared about me as a customer or our region they’d be setting up a plan to sell us renewables, and profit from that. Instead they sell us on the idea of clean coal and hope we’ll be happy buying “credits”.
I don’t participate in the program, I prefer to spend then money on products and services that can directly change how my family uses / conserves energy.
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June 2nd, 2008 at 8:15 am
I buy greenpower through Xcel Energy’s Windsource Program. This program has been independently audited and is a reliable way to continue to put additional wind-generated electricity in the mix. With new energy credits in our area, the price has dropped to pennies, really. I keep finding ways to conserve overall (have dropped from highs of 1000 kwh! to now about 300 kwh). But for what we still use, WindSource is the right thing to do.
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June 2nd, 2008 at 10:43 am
I do buy green power, but I’m a little wary of where my money is going. After all, I’m paying Duke Energy for this product and they’re as dirty as anyone. I know there is government oversight of this program, but that’s not very reassuring with the lack of oversight provided by the Bush Administration on environmental issues. Other than large scale hydro (not exactly green) green energy doesn’t make up any of the mix in Charlotte. Need more tranparency and a better explanation of how the program works.
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June 2nd, 2008 at 11:14 am
About 20% of our power is the ultimate green power, Nuclear. We also have 100 megawatts of wind available to our grid. Therefore we are buying about 21% of our power from green sources.
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June 2nd, 2008 at 11:24 am
My company is price driven so we purchase from the cheapest provided available and I do the same at home. From what I have seem Green Power is more expensive. The Goverment needs to subsidize Green projects to get more people on board.
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June 2nd, 2008 at 12:22 pm
Demand drives supply in this case. I have been purchasing 100% of my energy from renewable sources for several years now. Our local utility originally only offered wind power as a “greener” option. The service has gotten so popular that all of the wind power was bought up and the program has been expanded to now support solar and geothermal power in addition to wind. Our monthly energy bill costs about $6 more for participating in this service for three people in a small home.
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June 2nd, 2008 at 12:56 pm
I am not buying green for one simple reason, it costs more. In addition to an additional service fee, the price per kWh is higher and that’s with government subsidies. I keep hoping that some ESCO will offer an all nuclear option, so that the country can see how truly cheap it is and we can really let demand drive supply. How long are we going to let pseudo-science, disinformation and fear control us?
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June 2nd, 2008 at 1:06 pm
Green power is available to everyone through Renewable Energy Certificates (RECs). RECs are sold separately from electricity and allow consumers to choose the green power technology (wind v. solar v. biomass, etc.) and geography (close to home, regional, national) that makes the most sense for each purchaser. RECs are an explicit market valuation of the environmental benefits of green power v. conventional generation.
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June 3rd, 2008 at 11:50 pm
I live in a small community in wisconsin and use the only source of power available to us..which is whatever alliant energy provides.
We do have solar windmills nearby, but they are only provided to areas like chicago and milwaukee. I wouldnt even know who to contact for information to get it locally????
I think everyone would love a cheap alternative energy source, exept we dont know where to begin. There is a lack of knowledge regarding this matter. Even on the internet, i checked it out, but there were no direct answers. Fliers would be a nice touch, phone numbers, instructions in English would be good too. Even just spreading the word. so all the alternative greenpower companies need to get promoting. thats all it takes.
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June 4th, 2008 at 8:16 am
I pay extra to my PA electric company to have all my electricity from wind power. I would LOVE to have solar panels, but companies in my area will not install for residential homes because the state discontinued the rebate program. If I had solar panels, I would convert from oil heat to electric heat.
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June 7th, 2008 at 4:37 am
A bizarre new coloring book for kids issued by the National Institute of Child Health and Human Development obsessively promotes the use of fluoride-based toothpaste despite the chemical’s proven link to liver and kidney damage in children, cancer and the lowering of IQ, as well as another harmful product - Bovine Growth Hormone infested milk.
The booklet, entitled Milk Matters With Buddy Brush (PDF) includes an image of two children brushing their teeth using a tube of toothpaste with FLUORIDE written on it in giant capital letters.
Elsewhere the booklet states, “It is important for kids to brush their teeth with fluoride toothpaste at least twice a day to help protect their teeth from cavities”.
“This 14-page coloring book is part of the NICHD Milk Matters campaign, designed to teach parents, children, and health care providers about the importance of calcium for children and teens. The booklet, for children ages four to eight, follows Buddy Brush as he explains why calcium is critical not only to good health, but also to healthy teeth, and outlines how to take good care of teeth,” reads the description on the National Institute website.
How many times have you seen a tube of toothpaste with FLUORIDE written across it in giant capital letters? The government is clearly trying to send a message here - this cancer-causing, IQ lowering, liver disorder causing deadly chemical is actually nutritious for your kids!
Why is the government so keen on making your kids use fluoride-based toothpaste?
A recent Scientific American study “Concluded that fluoride can subtly alter endocrine function, especially in the thyroid — the gland that produces hormones regulating growth and metabolism.”
The report also notes that “a series of epidemiological studies in China have associated high fluoride exposures with lower IQ.”
“Epidemiological studies and tests on lab animals suggest that high fluoride exposure increases the risk of bone fracture, especially in vulnerable populations such as the elderly and diabetics,” writes Dan Fagin.
Fagin interviewed Steven Levy, director of the Iowa Fluoride Study which tracked about 700 Iowa children for sixteen years. Nine-year-old “Iowa children who lived in communities where the water was fluoridated were 50 percent more likely to have mild fluorosis… than [nine-year-old] children living in nonfluoridated areas of the state,” writes Fagin.
The study adds to a growing literature of shocking scientific studies proving fluoride’s link with all manner of health defects, even as governments in the west, including recently the UK, make plans to mass medicate the population against their will with this deadly toxin.
“Buddy Brush bets that your teeth will last a lifetime!” states the coloring booklet. In actual fact, sodium fluoride causes dental fluorosis (fluoride-discolored teeth) can be an indicator of kidney function harm according to an August 2006 study in Environmental Research which found that “water fluoride levels over 2.0 mg/L can cause damage to liver and kidney functions in children.”
Since 2.0 mg is routinely exceeded daily by means of intake through food, beverages, pharmaceuticals, and dental products, encouraging children to use sodium fluoride toothpaste is clearly a dangerous mantra.
60 per cent of the U.S. population also drinks sodium-fluoride contaminated water.
In 2005, a study conducted at the Harvard School of Dental Health found that fluoride in tap water directly contributes to causing bone cancer in young boys.
“New American research suggests that boys exposed to fluoride between the ages of five and 10 will suffer an increased rate of osteosarcoma - bone cancer - between the ages of 10 and 19,” according to a London Observer article about the study.
Based on the findings of the study, the respected Environmental Working Group lobbied to have fluoride in tap water be added to the US government’s classified list of substances known or anticipated to cause cancer in humans.
Cancer rates in the U.S. have skyrocketed with one in three people now contracting the disease at some stage in their life.
The link to bone cancer has also been discovered by other scientists, but a controversy ensued after it emerged that Harvard Professor Chester Douglass, who downplayed the connection in his final report, was in fact editor-in-chief of The Colgate Oral Health Report, a quarterly newsletter funded by Colgate-Palmolive Co., which makes fluoridated toothpaste.
An August 2006 Chinese study found that fluoride in drinking water damages children’s liver and kidney functions.
FACTS ABOUT FLUORIDE
- Fluoride is a waste by-product of the fertilizer and aluminum industry and it’s also a Part II Poison under the UK Poisons Act 1972.
- Fluoride is one of the basic ingredients in both PROZAC (FLUoxetene Hydrochloride) and Sarin nerve gas (Isopropyl-Methyl-Phosphoryl FLUoride).
- USAF Major George R. Jordan testified before Un-American Activity committees of Congress in the 1950’s that in his post as U.S.-Soviet liaison officer, the Soviets openly admitted to “Using the fluoride in the water supplies in their concentration camps, to make the prisoners stupid, docile, and subservient.”
- The first occurrence of fluoridated drinking water on Earth was found in Germany’s Nazi prison camps. The Gestapo had little concern about fluoride’s supposed effect on children’s teeth; their alleged reason for mass-medicating water with sodium fluoride was to sterilize humans and force the people in their concentration camps into calm submission. (Ref. book: “The Crime and Punishment of I.G. Farben” by Joseph Borkin.)
- 97% of western Europe has rejected fluoridated water due to the known health risks, however 10% of Britons drink it and the UK government is trying to fast track the fluoridation of the entire country’s water supply.
- In Germany, Belgium and Luxembourg fluoridation of water was rejected because it was classified as compulsive medication against the subject’s will and therefore violated fundamental human rights.
- In November of 2006, the American Dental Association (ADA) advised that parents should avoid giving babies fluoridated water.
- Sources of fluoride include: fluoride dental products, fluoride pesticides, fluoridated pharmaceuticals, processed foods made with fluoridated water, and tea.
Click here to find out if your water supply is poisoned with deadly fluoride.
BOVINE GROWTH HORMONE INFESTED MILK - NUTRITIOUS & DELICIOUS
The coloring book also promotes the consumption of non-organic milk products which are likely to be contaminated with Bovine Growth Hormone, a compound injected into cattle to increase milk production by 15 per cent. BGH is banned in Europe and Canada because it raises levels of a cancer-accelerating hormone called IGF-1.
According to author Jeffrey Smith, “A Harvard study of 15,000 white males revealed that those with elevated IGF-1 levels in their blood were four times more likely to get prostate cancer than the average man.”
Collusion on behalf of the FDA and Monsanto, the corporation that has a monopoly on producing BGH (Posilac), led to the compound being approved in 1993, despite the objections of, “Several scientists involved in the review of Posilac (who) were dismissed or pressured to leave the FDA expressing concerns over the process used to approve the drug for use in dairy cows and others expressed their concerns anonymously for fear of retribution.”
BGH milk is now sold in 49 states and approximately one third of dairy cattle in the U.S. are injected with Posilac. It is now the top selling dairy cattle pharmaceutical product in the U.S.
Monsanto has embarked on an aggressive and zealous campaign to pressure farming and cheese-making groups into using Posilac despite their objections.
We have to question why the government is so keen to promote non-organic milk and fluoride-based toothpaste, two products which have been proven to have a damaging and detrimental effect on health and particularly children’s health.
Along with the recent move to make all vaccines mandatory for children, the necessity to increase our education and warn others about the dangers posed by everyday items such as these, and to promote organic alternatives, is more pressing than ever before.
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June 9th, 2008 at 2:41 pm
I am green power neutral….I see some positive “press” from the use of RCE’s, but I think that spending the money on real renewable energy projects to be preferrable to buying the “green attribute” from a project that is already sited.
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June 13th, 2008 at 8:41 am
This is a great program because it shifts the cost burden on to those who feel guilty that they are “destroying the Earth”. Kind of like the people who report in to the police for every murder comitted because they feel guilty of something all the time.
I’m not against the whole concept of finding alternative energy sources but think we must use common sense.
It’s silly, these people talking about buying “carbon offsets”. It’s just a tax! If I wanted to get rich these days I would start a “carbon offset” selling business. I could use the money to buy land for my self and plant trees on it.
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June 16th, 2008 at 2:13 pm
Jessie…
I always enjoy coming to this Free Mp3 Download because you offer great tips and advice for people like me who can always use a few good pointers. I will be getting my friends to pop around fairly soon….
July 7th, 2008 at 10:46 am
Apartments Chicago…
This is pretty interesting….
September 9th, 2008 at 12:40 pm
OOOH, that’s a bit pessimistic but there must be a now-a-day Thomas Edison out there some where, someone that can and wants to see into the future just a bit. I don’t mind paying for change I just don’t like paying and have it tossed out by selling the idea for BIG BUCKS. Isn’t there a person out there that wants to create a better way?
I’m going to build a new home and have heard about wind turbines being installed on the home along with solar, but it all seems so new and EXPENSIVE I need information.
Also, I live in an older townhome community right now and the dummies here fear getting together to put up solar on the flat roofs. Anyone have info on how to retro-fit?
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March 6th, 2009 at 5:00 am
ideas de negocio…
Totalmente acertado. Además, todo se basa en el concepto de las cosas, en la idea. Es fundamental que se analicen bien los pros y los contras antes de pasar a la acción. Pero una vez tomada la decisión, el método de ejecución de la idea es tan importan…