Interview with Frederick Miller [April 22, 2002]

Natalie LaGrange:

This is Natalie LaGrange interviewing Frederick Miller on April 22nd, 2002, at his apartment on 911H Erie Avenue. He was born January 31st, 1914, and was enlisted when he was 19 years old in 1933. He was part of the U.S. Engineer Corps and was a private in the First Division. He served during World War II. And attending the interview are his wife, Theresa Miller, and Jacinda LaGrange. The people that are attending the interview are his wife, Theresa Miller, and Jacinda LaGrange. Could you begin by telling us what your educational background was before you went into the war.

Frederick Miller:

Yes. I went to high school, parochial high school.

Natalie LaGrange:

Did you attend college?

Frederick Miller:

No, because during the Depression nobody could afford college. But parochial high schools, they were a high school education equivalent to a college education. They would teach you over and above any curriculum you would get in a civic school.

Natalie LaGrange:

And at the time of the war, were you in any type of relationship? Were you married, or were you still single?

Frederick Miller:

I was single.

Natalie LaGrange:

What year did you get married, and do you remember?

Frederick Miller:

I don't remember.

Natalie LaGrange:

Okay. Did you have any children during the time of the war?

Frederick Miller:

No.

Natalie LaGrange:

Where did you live and work during the war?

Frederick Miller:

Where did I live?

Natalie LaGrange:

Uh-hmm.

Frederick Miller:

I lived in Brooklyn, New York.

Natalie LaGrange:

Did you have a job?

Frederick Miller:

Did I have a what?

Natalie LaGrange:

A job. Did you work anyplace?

Frederick Miller:

I was a photographer, freelance.

Natalie LaGrange:

Okay. What was your main wartime activity?

Frederick Miller:

My what?

Natalie LaGrange:

What did you do during the war? Did you stick with photography, or did you dedicate yourself mainly --

Frederick Miller:

I was a cameraman with the Signal Corps.

Natalie LaGrange:

Can you tell me a little bit about that, what you did with that?

Frederick Miller:

Yeah. That's one thing I could do.

Natalie LaGrange:

Okay. So you shot pictures of different battle scenes, things that happened to people's lives?

Frederick Miller:

In Long Island City in the Photographic Center, which was the old movie studios of Paramount, Paramount, we took over the Paramount movie studio in Long Island City, and we did things like this.

Natalie LaGrange:

You took pictures of the people that were killed and wounded?

Frederick Miller:

We took pictures, training pictures, teaching the soldiers different things. We were teaching medical trainers, _________ medical soldiers, how to take care of their wounded.

Natalie LaGrange:

Okay.

Frederick Miller:

And that's one thing we did. The other thing we did was we did all training films, and we took over, in Belmar, New Jersey, which was a _______ camp, we took over radar from the British, who invented it. We did not have radar. That's why the Germans were _____+ but the Germans -- the British, they invented radar, and then radar cut down on everything. It cut down _______+ submarines, and it also helped them win their battle with Britain. See, in the air, the way the Germans were bombing England, they would have -- they would have destroyed the country. Then when the Germans would come out on a, on a bright night, they would have a whole fleet of planes. They had two or three lead planes with pilots experienced in the planes. In the other planes they had recruits with no training or some kind of fire, and they would have only a fuselage. They would have no guns, nothing, but bombs that would be loaded on, so they would come over, over, say, a part of London and, say, a thousand of these planes, they would drop their bombs, and then most of them would get shot down, but they were expendable. That's how the Germans were able to inflict so much damage in the air. They didn't care about whether ______+. They were expendable, not valuable. They were just kids. They just used kids in the planes. If you could fly a plane, they would teach you even. They would all take off together and ______+ over the _______, which isn't far across. Just hold your stick and just look at the -- at your _______ in front of you. It's easy to fly. I know how it is. I never took any lessons, but I could fly my grandson's plane the first time I was ______+. Anyway, so what we did was we were -- we took that technology, and we were building radar machines, and I was photographing the procedure to teach the soldiers who were going to use radar and the pilots. They were filming training films.

Natalie LaGrange:

Did you have any family or friends who served with you during the wartime?

Frederick Miller:

No.

Natalie LaGrange:

Okay. How did you feel about the war?

Frederick Miller:

How did I feel about the war?

Natalie LaGrange:

Uh-hmm.

Frederick Miller:

I didn't have any feelings. Just ______+.

Natalie LaGrange:

You just had to do it?

Frederick Miller:

I had nothing else.

Natalie LaGrange:

How did you entertain yourself outside of being a private in the army? What did you do for fun?

Frederick Miller:

How would I entertain myself?

Natalie LaGrange:

Uh-hmm.

Frederick Miller:

I would get drunk and find women.

Natalie LaGrange:

Okay. Did you ever worry about which side would win the war?

Frederick Miller:

Did I ever worry?

Natalie LaGrange:

Uh-hmm.

Frederick Miller:

No.

Natalie LaGrange:

Okay. Did you get married during that wartime?

Frederick Miller:

No.

Natalie LaGrange:

You were single the entire time?

Frederick Miller:

Yeah.

Natalie LaGrange:

Okay. Do you think that medical care changed because of the war?

Frederick Miller:

Yeah, sure.

Natalie LaGrange:

Could you tell us a little bit about how it changed?

Frederick Miller:

How did medical care change?

Natalie LaGrange:

Uh-hmm.

Frederick Miller:

Got better.

Natalie LaGrange:

In what ways?

Frederick Miller:

In every way.

Natalie LaGrange:

What kind of things were they practicing before the war that changed at the end, do you know?

Frederick Miller:

Well, they were experimenting on soldiers, prisoner soldiers. They were experimenting with illegal operations and experimenting infecting them with venereal diseases and trying to cure them, doing a lot of things which I'm sure were not any more ethical or --

Natalie LaGrange:

Okay.

Frederick Miller:

-- ______+. You think you ought to get this down to Washington? You gonna cause a ruckus? Do you know what a scandal you're gonna start when they hear about this, the investigation ______+. This is highly classified. Nobody knew this. You'd better _______ this out.

Frederick Miller:

See, I was in a hospital temporarily and had a lot of Nazi sympathizers were American officers, and they used to think that Hitler was the greatest thing in the world. And they were reading all these medical experiments that Hitler was performing, so they decided, since they had these helpless prisoners, they might as well try to -- try it on them. So they were infecting them with venereal disease and then trying to make a culture of their own blood to cure them, to be medical heroes if they were _______ through. And if they failed, nobody would know it. And that's something you'd better expunge.

Natalie LaGrange:

Okay.

Frederick Miller:

For instance, you know, a lot of bad things with government that -- or individuals that _______+.

Natalie LaGrange:

Okay. Was anyone that you knew killed during the war, like anyone you were close to?

Frederick Miller:

No.

Natalie LaGrange:

No. Okay. Did any type of the war, like, affect your physical or mental health? Like, some people, you know, some of the men after the war, they would be, like, physically or mentally traumatized from things that they saw, things that they heard.

Frederick Miller:

Oh, I'm sure.

Natalie LaGrange:

Did you experience any of those things?

Frederick Miller:

Did I experience any?

Natalie LaGrange:

Uh-hmm.

Frederick Miller:

No, but I seen -- I seen plenty of men who were.

Natalie LaGrange:

Could you tell us a little bit about that, what kind of things it did to them?

Frederick Miller:

Well, they would be what they call shell shocked. The government didn't use that phrase. People who would go around looking like idiots.

Natalie LaGrange:

What would they do?

Frederick Miller:

They would dribble from their mouth. They would go like this. Okay?

Natalie LaGrange:

Any other kind of symptoms besides drooling? They would shake?

Frederick Miller:

Yeah.

Natalie LaGrange:

Okay. What was your most memorable experience during the war?

Frederick Miller:

What?

Natalie LaGrange:

Most memorable experience.

Frederick Miller:

My what?

Natalie LaGrange:

Memorable, something that you remember most about the war.

Frederick Miller:

Having a big party in New Jersey ______+.

Natalie LaGrange:

Did you do that often?

Frederick Miller:

As often as I could.

Natalie LaGrange:

What caused you -- Like, why did you always want to go out and get drunk? Was it just a way to escape what was going on around you?

Frederick Miller:

No.

Natalie LaGrange:

That's just what you like to do for fun?

Frederick Miller:

Of course. Who wouldn't?

Natalie LaGrange:

Could you tell me a little bit about the Depression during the war, like what kinds of rationing you had to go through, the food shortages, just what that was like.

Frederick Miller:

Couldn't get any -- buy any meat. Used to have to have coupons to buy meat. I feel bad about ________+.

Natalie LaGrange:

Did they have certain days that -- I know they had --

Frederick Miller:

Yeah. I think they had --

Natalie LaGrange:

-- certain days where you could --

Frederick Miller:

Sunday -- Theresa --

Natalie LaGrange:

So the Depression made you not be able to work; it was hard to make a living?

Frederick Miller:

Me and 150 million others.

Natalie LaGrange:

What kind of things did you have to go through during that time?

Frederick Miller:

What did I have to go through?

Natalie LaGrange:

Yeah.

Frederick Miller:

I had to -- I had to _______ -- _______ my alcohol intake.

Natalie LaGrange:

Because of the --

Frederick Miller:

Because of lack of money.

Natalie LaGrange:

Yeah. And do you remember what day it was that you weren't allowed to eat the certain things? They had wheatless Wednesdays. They had, like, lightless nights, and things like that, during the Depression where you weren't allowed or weren't supposed to use electricity, things like that.

Frederick Miller:

I tell you if we ever thought about it, we expunge it from our mind. ________+.

Natalie LaGrange:

Okay. Anything else about the Depression? Okay. Could you tell me a little bit more about things that went on during the war that you experienced, like, personally, you and your fellow soldiers, like things that you did on a day-to-day basis, like what was your routine that you had to go through?

Frederick Miller:

We had to get up in the morning in Belmar, and they had a pole, a ______ pole, and it had a sign on it "Contact will result in immediate death" that said "10 million volts." And every morning I used to watch the British soldiers, who were training us, they would put their hand almost but not touching it, and then, oh, then they would be rejuvenated. They would be filled with static electricity _______+ and, if they touched it, they'd be dead.

Natalie LaGrange:

Why did they have that?

Frederick Miller:

Why?

Natalie LaGrange:

Yeah. What was the reason?

Frederick Miller:

Why did they have it?

Natalie LaGrange:

Uh-hmm.

Frederick Miller:

To wake them up --

Natalie LaGrange:

Oh, I see.

Frederick Miller:

-- after drinking all night so they could be able to work. So I thought I would try it, and I got into the habit, and it became habit forming. After a while I needed a jolt ______+ lightning so became -- and I didn't realize how dangerous that current was, but one of the electricians working with us who was moving the lights -- they were moving the lights, and one of the electricians, they -- the lights were on what they call dollies, they were on wheels, and they would pull them across, you know, to position them. And one of them went across one of these cables, and there must have been insulation missing, and there was this tremendous flash of lightning. We were all in the room. And this lamp, this big metal lamp and all, disappeared. It vaporized.

Natalie LaGrange:

Wow.

Frederick Miller:

We knew -- We knew that they meant it. They needed all that power for radar. _______+. It was dangerous, yeah.

Natalie LaGrange:

Did the U.S. have a very good radar system? Was it, like, very good?

Frederick Miller:

What?

Natalie LaGrange:

The U.S.'s radar, did we have good, like, was our radar good compared to Germany's? Could you contrast those two, or were they equally the same?

Frederick Miller:

Germany -- Germany didn't have any radar.

Natalie LaGrange:

They didn't have any?

Frederick Miller:

Thank heavens. If they had it, we would have been pleasantly gone.

Natalie LaGrange:

Do you know anything, like, any information about what was going on over in Germany during World War II? Can you talk anything -- talk about that?

Frederick Miller:

I don't know any more than what was in the papers.

Natalie LaGrange:

Can you tell us what the papers said?

Frederick Miller:

The papers said -- Of course the American papers said that they were having big problems with starvation and bombing and suffering, and they were going to -- shortly going to lose the war, and the German papers said the Americans were suffering from starvation and then the Germans were going to win the war. It was called propaganda.

Natalie LaGrange:

Do you know anything about the concentration camps, what those were like?

Frederick Miller:

Do I know anything?

Natalie LaGrange:

Uh-hmm.

Frederick Miller:

Only what was in the papers.

Natalie LaGrange:

Okay. Could you talk about your training that you had before the war.

Frederick Miller:

Who what?

Natalie LaGrange:

Your training, what kind of training you had to go through.

Frederick Miller:

Training?

Natalie LaGrange:

Uh-hmm.

Frederick Miller:

It so happened that I took my training in Fort DuPont, Delaware, with the engineers, and our -- our non-commissioned officers, sergeants, were all ex-Germans. And in fact the first sergeant had been an ex-German colonel ______+ from the war. And what happened was at the end of the war, German prisoners, you know, who were officers were offered an opportunity to become American citizens and to join the American army. And we had an influx of German staff officers from the German army that were _______.

Natalie LaGrange:

Wow.

Frederick Miller:

And our -- they were all given commissions as reserve officers. And every year they would go to a certain place for training as officers but reserve officers. Their regular rank was non-commissioned officer, sergeants. So, anyway, we had all these people training us. So, anyway, they trained us German style. Here's how they trained us. In an auditorium with the windows closed and with the heat on, we had to, wearing overcoats, we had to drill, close order drill, with fixed bayonets. That meant if you made a mistake, you cut somebody's head off, German style. And then after we were all sweated out, we had to go out in the snow and do push-ups. That was a tough assignment. So, anyway, I'm sure they didn't train that way in any other part of the army, but this, Fort DuPont, this was a concentration center for all these German officers, and they had a German club on the port, on the post, and they all went there, you know, for the evening to drink their Bavarian beer and to speak German _______+. And then when they took their furloughs, they took their wives and children back to Germany for vacation. So this is -- We also had a lot of German scientists who gave us the -- who gave us the missiles, the guided missiles. Did you ever hear of them?

Natalie LaGrange:

Uh-uh.

Frederick Miller:

They never taught you that in school, about all the German scientists?

Natalie LaGrange:

Uh-uh. Could you tell me about those?

Frederick Miller:

There's one in particular who's head of the American space agency, a German -- I'm trying to think of his name -- a famous scientist. Because of this German technology, we were able to be number one, because -- with guided missiles. And we were -- it helped our space program. Wernher von Braun. He was -- That was the guy. Wernher von Braun, during the war, he was in charge of arming England. And Wernher von Braun developed what they call the smart bomb. And these were bombs with wings. They were flying over Germany, and they could be located and dropped by -- however they tried to make it drop, and they were accurate. And when -- the name of this place where they sent these bombs over against England was Peenemunde. That was in Holland. And the Russians, when they came down to Peenemunde, Wernher von Braun and about a dozen Germans escaped the Russians, and they were protected by the Americans. The Americans gave them protection. And the Americans brought them over here and gave them citizenship and located them here. And the rest of the Germans were seized by the Russians and were forced to make missiles in the space program for the Germans -- for the Russians. But I thought they would mention that in history?

Natalie LaGrange:

Uh-uh.

Frederick Miller:

What do they teach you about history? Anything?

Natalie LaGrange:

Well, yeah.

Frederick Miller:

Like what?

Natalie LaGrange:

We learn, like, the basic things. Like we don't go, like, in-depth like all those sort of details that you mainly have to know from being there. We don't get that kind of stuff.

Frederick Miller:

Yeah, but I would imagine that that would be critical knowledge. _______+. Maybe they didn't want to offend anyone's sensibilities.

Natalie LaGrange:

Yeah. Is there anything else you want to talk about on that subject?

Frederick Miller:

No.

Natalie LaGrange:

Okay. How did you feel after the war ended?

Frederick Miller:

After the war ended?

Natalie LaGrange:

Uh-huh. What was life like after the war ended?

Frederick Miller:

After the war ended. By that time it was pretty well run down, I mean, the fighting. We were relieved to get meat. Rationing was over. And the lights were -- They had the lights on on Broadway again, lights on Broadway. And everybody could start getting drunk again.

Natalie LaGrange:

Anything else that happened after the war ended?

Frederick Miller:

No.

Natalie LaGrange:

Okay. Do you remember where you were on V-Day?

Frederick Miller:

On V-Day?

Natalie LaGrange:

Uh-hmm.

Frederick Miller:

Where were we?

Frederick Miller:

I was, when the war ended, I was at home in Brooklyn.

Natalie LaGrange:

Did you go out and celebrate and party?

Frederick Miller:

Did I celebrate? Yeah. At home.

Natalie LaGrange:

How do you think that the war changed you and other people's lives?

Frederick Miller:

How did the war change us?

Natalie LaGrange:

Uh-hmm.

Frederick Miller:

Well, it made everybody aware of the imminence of death, think about your own mortality.

Natalie LaGrange:

Did that change people a lot?

Frederick Miller:

Yeah. I'm sure that you -- you're not worried or thinking about your own death. You don't even -- That's the farthest thing from your mind. You don't sit and cogitate, oh, I'm going to die some day. But everyone who was in the war were _______.

Natalie LaGrange:

Did you keep your job after the war ended, or did you change jobs?

Frederick Miller:

I kept my job.

Natalie LaGrange:

Did it change any, like the things that you had to do?

Frederick Miller:

No.

Natalie LaGrange:

Everything was still the same?

Frederick Miller:

Yeah.

Natalie LaGrange:

What's one thing about your war experience that you would want to share with future generations just to let them know what it was like?

Frederick Miller:

What it was like?

Natalie LaGrange:

Yeah. What you would like to share to give future generations some knowledge about it.

Frederick Miller:

I would advise future generations to have wealthy parents who can get them out of the draft.

Natalie LaGrange:

Is there anything else I should ask you that you would like to share, any other important information --

Frederick Miller:

No.

Natalie LaGrange:

-- that we didn't touch on?

Frederick Miller:

Yeah. Just don't turn me in to the FBI.

Natalie LaGrange:

Okay. Well, thank you for your time --

Frederick Miller:

You're welcome.

Natalie LaGrange:

-- and your information. Thank you.

[CONCLUSION OF INTERVIEW]