Interview with Leroy Paul Baker [4/25/2002]

William M. Gibson:

Thursday, April 25, 2002. United States Senator Richard G. Lugar's office, Indianapolis, Indiana. This is Bill Gibson, a special assistant to the United States Senator Richard Lugar, and today is Thursday, April 25, 2002. We are interviewing Leroy Paul Baker, goes by Paul. He was born October 11, 1920. He currently lives at 300 East 5th Street in Sheridan, Indiana, and he was in the Army during World War II in the 80th Infantry Division and achieved the highest rank of Technician Fifth Grade. Okay, Mr. Baker, thank you for being here today. The first question we always like to ask is: How did you end up in the Army? Were you drafted, or did you enlist? And if you enlisted, why did you choose the Army?

Leroy Paul Baker:

I was drafted in July of 1942, July 20, actually. And I was sent first to Noblesville, Indiana at the armory. Then we got on the bus, and we went from there down to Fort Harrison in Indianapolis. There we got on a train and were transferred ____ down to Camp Forest, Tennessee. This was near Tullahoma, Tennessee. And we were there until September -- I can't remember the exact day -- but in September of 1943. So we took basic training down in Camp Forest, Tennessee.

William M. Gibson:

Okay.

Leroy Paul Baker:

Then we took some more training in Camp Phillips, Kansas. Then we transferred from there down to Laguna -- Laguna Camp down in -- Laguna, Arizona, and there we took desert maneuvers. And we were there until April of 1944. Then they transferred us back to Fort Dix, New Jersey, and I know when we went to Laguna, Arizona, I thought, well, here we're going to go through CDI. Well, you know the Army does funny things. So we were there until April, and here they transferred us clear back across the United States to Fort Dix, New Jersey. Fort Dix was a staging area getting you prepared to go overseas.

William M. Gibson:

Now, before you got to Fort Dix, you did desert training, you said, out in Arizona. What was the basic training like? What was the desert training like? What was your -- do you have any memories of how difficult either of those things were?

Leroy Paul Baker:

Well, we did a lot of maneuvers, did a lot of marching out through the desert. And if you've ever tried walking in the desert with your full field equipment, you take one step forward and step two backwards in the sand, and it was pretty strenuous training out there. And I remember one thing out there: We were there for Christmas, and the cooks prepared the Christmas dinner, and the kitchen was just a screened-in building. Well, that morning, it came up a dust storm, and we did not get to eat Christmas dinner on Christmas 1944. So that's one experience. And then we were -- we stayed in perambular tents, sand for a floor. And at night when you went to bed on your cot, you put your shoes and socks up high, because if you didn't, the next morning your shoes and socks may be outside the tent or hard to tell where because of pack rats. So, anyhow, that was -- that's about the extent of the service out there in Arizona.

William M. Gibson:

Now, when you got to Fort Dix, how long were you in Fort Dix at the staging area?

Leroy Paul Baker:

We were there from -- I forget what the actual day was in April to the first day of July.

William M. Gibson:

Okay.

Leroy Paul Baker:

'44.

William M. Gibson:

And then you left out of there to go overseas to Europe?

Leroy Paul Baker:

Yes. We got on a train, went to New York, New York Harbor, and there we loaded a ship, which was at that time the Queen Mary, which was the second largest ship in the world. And there were 18,000 people on that ship, that's counting troops and crew, and we sailed up out of New York Harbor. And the most demoralizing thing about that was when we looked at that Statue of Liberty and wandered if we'd ever see it again or not when you left. Then we went up into the North Atlantic and got in a storm up there, and it tossed that ship around like a thimble. I never saw so many seasick people in my life, and I was one of them. So we went on up through there, and we landed in Glasgow, Scotland. We got on a troop train in Glasgow, Scotland and went down to Southampton, England, and we were there for about three weeks. Then we crossed the English Channel over to the Omaha Beachhead, and that's when the bad part started. We fought all the way across France. We got over in the northern -- northeastern part of France, and that's when the Battle of the Bulge broke out. So we got on trucks and rode all night up to Luxembourg City.

William M. Gibson:

Now, when you first got over across the English Channel, is that when you first faced combat?

Leroy Paul Baker:

Yes.

William M. Gibson:

Do you remember what you felt or what it was like those first few days when you were facing combat?

Leroy Paul Baker:

Well, if you ever had anybody start shooting at you --

William M. Gibson:

No, I never had anybody shooting at me.

Leroy Paul Baker:

-- that's how it was. That's what it was. And we lost a lot of men in my company going across France. Of course, that's what we's doing was driving the Germans out of France. One thing good was we stopped in these towns, and the French people, they would really come to you and thank you for what you was doing. I had a lot of women come around and give me hugs over there, those French women. But there was one other thing that -- this was in France. We -- I was a company mail clerk, and I was attached to the kitchen truck, and, of course, we're all on the front lines. But you had your front lines, and then you had your main line of resistance where the troops were. Anyhow, we would pull up every night, the kitchen truck, and I would take mail up to the main line, and they'd take rations up to the main line. I remember this one evening we pulled up into a woods. Well, at night the German artillery would start firing on us, try to knock out supplies. And we pulled up into that woods, I looked around, and I thought, boy, we're going to get it tonight, our true burst artillery, and we did. I think that was the worst blast of artillery that we received. I know I dug my foxhole. That's the first thing you did was dig a foxhole. And by being in the woods, there was a lot of loose limbs laying around, and I laid those limbs across over my foxhole, and there's a lot of leaves, and I placed a lot of leaves over that, and then what dirt I dug out, I put that over the top of that. And I don't remember, it was late at night. All at once, I mean, all heck broke loose. Artillery was terrible. Worse artillery shock we ever had. And I don't know, I was laying down in my foxhole, and I'm telling you I was scared because I didn't know what was going to hit that foxhole next. So I remember -- excuse me -- I remember one thing: I got on the train to leave for the service back in Fort Dix -- Fort Harrison, Indianapolis. The last thing my mother said the day, she said, "Paul, pray." Well, I guarantee you that night I did a lot of praying. So that was one pretty rough experience that I had. Another experience that I had by being company mail clerk, every evening we would get on either a jeep or a six-by-six truck and go back to regimental headquarters to pick up mail and deliver outgoing mail. And we were in this little town, and on the east side of this town was a big hill. So we started out that evening and started down the road and had to make a turn around a curve, and artillery shells started hitting in the side of this -- it missed the truck, but the truck driver received shrapnel in his heart, and it happened so one of the mail clerks were in the cab with him. They pulled him over to the side and got in and drove the truck out of there. So that was -- the good Lord was looking after us then, too. But this boy, this truck driver, it killed him. So we just took him on back to regimental headquarters and medics took care -- took over from there. So that's two rough experiences along with a thousand others.

William M. Gibson:

And those happened fairly early on in your experiences over there?

Leroy Paul Baker:

Yes, yes, down in France, yeah.

William M. Gibson:

How long -- you said you fought your way through France against the Germans. How long was your division fighting in France? How long did it take you to get through to your next area of combat, if you will?

Leroy Paul Baker:

Well, it was in the first part of December when we left northern France for Luxembourg City.

William M. Gibson:

December of '44?

Leroy Paul Baker:

Yes.

William M. Gibson:

Is that correct?

Leroy Paul Baker:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

William M. Gibson:

And did you get -- during any of that time -- you talked about the French people being real good when their towns would be liberated and things and you'd come through. Did you guys get any time when you were given a little bit of a break from combat or --

Leroy Paul Baker:

No.

William M. Gibson:

-- were you facing that every day?

Leroy Paul Baker:

There was no break from -- for 10 straight months. We were on the front lines for 10 straight months. We never was off a day.

William M. Gibson:

Now, where did you go when you left France? You said you went to Luxembourg?

Leroy Paul Baker:

Yeah. That was the Battle of the Bulge up there.

William M. Gibson:

Yeah.

Leroy Paul Baker:

That's when it broke out. And the first day we were up there, my company alone captured 200 German prisoners the first day. But the whole country of Luxembourg is very rough terrain, a lot of hills, and for a little more -- some people could call them mountains, I guess. But it was very rough country.

William M. Gibson:

Keep going. I'm just making some notes here.

Leroy Paul Baker:

Fine.

William M. Gibson:

So just keep going.

Leroy Paul Baker:

While we were in Luxembourg fighting in the Battle of the Bulge, my first sergeant and I, we were very, very close during all the years that I had been in. And this one particular morning, I was in a little old house working out the mail, getting ready to take it back to regimental, and I heard him call my name and I heard that -- {pause} -- anyhow, he got shell-shocked, and I never did hear from him after that. I wrote letters, tried to contact him. Never did.

William M. Gibson:

Do you need a moment?

Leroy Paul Baker:

Huh?

William M. Gibson:

Do you need a moment?

Leroy Paul Baker:

Yeah. (The tape recorder was turned off.)

William M. Gibson:

Okay, Mr. Baker. You said you and your first sergeant were close friends. Now -- and you weren't able to stay in touch with him. But were there other gentlemen that you became close friends with that you did stay in touch with over the -- over the years from the time that you -- the war ended? Reunions or anything like that?

Leroy Paul Baker:

Yes. During that period of combat, I would get letters from my late wife, and she kept talking about a fellow by the name of Bob McKern (ph). Well, I never seen or heard tell of Bob McKern before. But, anyhow, when we's down in Austria pulling occupation duty, one evening the company runner came down to my office and said they wanted to see you up at the command post -- somebody wants to see you up at the command post. I thought, well, what in the world have I done wrong now. Anyhow, I went up there, and there stood Bob McKern. First time I ever met the man. So after the war was over when we got home, why, we were -- we visited back and forth for amount of years until he passed away. So that was the most important person, I guess, that I came in touch with or whatever.

William M. Gibson:

Okay. Now, during the course of the war with the guys you were buddies with, did you guys ever pull pranks on each other, or do anything that was -- was a little outside of guidelines?

Leroy Paul Baker:

About the only pranks I remember about was what they called getting short-sheeted. You get in your bunk to go to bed at night, and some guy had pulled that sheet up, and the end was only about halfway down, and you had to tear the bed up to get back in your bed. So I think that was about the only, what you call, pranks.

William M. Gibson:

Yeah.

Leroy Paul Baker:

Because you were busy. You didn't have time to play.

William M. Gibson:

Yeah. Now, when we were not taping here, your daughter mentioned something about a drinking episode that you may have had.

Leroy Paul Baker:

Well, over there in France, we got into a wine cellar, kitchen. The kitchen crew did. And we had, I don't know, two or three big boxes of champagne that we put on the truck. I don't remember how many boxes or bottles there was in the box, but then, anyhow, we had two or three boxes of champagne on there. They were probably three-foot square, something like that. Well, I never drank champagne before in my life. So this particular evening, we were in this building, and I had quite a bit of mail to work out. So I thought I'm going to try that. So I got me a bottle and set it on an old table I had there. I'd work out some mail, and once in a while, I'd take a drink of it. After so long a time, I had to get up and get another bag of mail, and when I did, I fell flat on my face. And I didn't realize that stuff could make you drunk, but it did. So I did have an assistant mail clerk. Anyhow, I told Corporal Seatram (ph) is his name, I said, "You guys finish this." He said, "What happened?" I told him. He said, "Well, you don't look very good." I said, "I don't feel very good." So, anyhow, that taught me to stay away from liquor. So that was . . .

William M. Gibson:

So what happened with the other two or three boxes of champagne? Did you share it among the men?

Leroy Paul Baker:

Yeah, they did. They did. I know my first sergeant run into a wine cellar one time, and there was champagne in barrels. He took a lid off of that, and he said, "I always did want to wash my face in this." And he washed his face in champagne. That was a -- that was a fun thing.

William M. Gibson:

We were talking earlier about when you got to the Battle of the Bulge, and when you were first there, you guys captured 200 Germans the first day.

Leroy Paul Baker:

Yeah, we did.

William M. Gibson:

And how long were you at the Battle of the Bulge?

Leroy Paul Baker:

Well, we were there -- let's see, trying to think -- we were there until after the first of the year which would have been 1945. But one of the beautiful things that I remember up in the Battle of the Bulge was I was mail clerk; so I had to walk down to where the regimental post office was to take outgoing mail. And this was on Christmas day 1944. And that particular day, it was just -- the weather was just as clear as a bell. On my way back, I heard the darnedest bunch of airplanes. I looked up in the western sky, and that sky was almost black with the United States Air Force planes, and that was the beginning of the end of Adolf Hitler because that was the day -- of course, the weather had been bad, and they hadn't had a chance to get out and fly. But that was on Christmas day 1944.

William M. Gibson:

What was the feeling among the men in your division at that time when you saw -- when you all saw that?

Leroy Paul Baker:

Everybody was delighted because they knew that that was going to be it, and that was, that was the day we broke Hitler's back. It was a very, very bad area up there. A lot of our troops got frozen feet because it was cold, really cold up there. I don't know what the temperature was because I didn't have a thermometer, but, I mean, it was cold, snow, really, really bad up in there.

William M. Gibson:

Now, what were your accommodations when you were there? You talked about being in a tent when you were in training out in Arizona. Where did -- when you were fighting at the Battle of the Bulge and there in Luxembourg in the cold weather, where did the -- where were you able to stay for the night, if you will?

Leroy Paul Baker:

The rear echelon, so to speak, of where I was, the company headquarters, and the kitchen trucks, and all that, we'd move into a house, and so we were real fortunate. But the riflemen, they had to get wherever they could, and a lot of them got frozen feet up there because they didn't have anyplace to go other than just frozen ground. So that was -- that was really a rough area up there. A lot of fellows that was in the Battle of the Bulge will tell you that's one of the worst battles this country ever had. Of course, I wasn't in the others, but then I've heard that from different ones that were in the Battle of the Bulge.

William M. Gibson:

Now, after the first of the year when you left Luxembourg and left that area, where did you go to from there?

Leroy Paul Baker:

We fought across Germany. Let's see, we got over -- I'm forgetting now what the name of that town was. I have to get that -- take that map to tell you. But, anyhow, over in eastern Germany.

William M. Gibson:

Now, when you were fighting across Germany, you said the people in France were happy to see you.

Leroy Paul Baker:

Yeah.

William M. Gibson:

How were the people in Germany -- how did they react to seeing the American soldiers?

Leroy Paul Baker:

After the war was over, we was pulling occupation duty. Even though we were fighting the Germans, the German people were the nicest people of all of them. They was really nice to you. And I know -- we were, actually, on occupation duty. You got a chance to talk to some of the residents around where you were in the towns, you know.

William M. Gibson:

Umhum.

Leroy Paul Baker:

And I got acquainted with this one family, and they invited me to come over and eat dinner with them one evening. Well, I went over there, but I told them that I'd already had my dinner at the company. So I spent that evening with them. And you never had anybody treat you any nicer than those German people. And as far as the area, the German people were the cleanest of all of them, and I have a lot of respect for the German people.

William M. Gibson:

Now, did a lot of the German people, did they speak English, or did you learn German?

Leroy Paul Baker:

No. You learned enough of it. You can work your hands for an area, you know, and you can make conversation with them. I learned enough German to be able to, you know --

William M. Gibson:

Have a conversation?

Leroy Paul Baker:

Have a conversation with them, yeah.

William M. Gibson:

Okay.

Leroy Paul Baker:

Yeah.

William M. Gibson:

You're talking about the town. Do you -- on the map, do you see the town that you were talking about a moment ago?

Leroy Paul Baker:

You mean up in Luxembourg?

William M. Gibson:

Yeah.

Leroy Paul Baker:

Yeah. I don't know whether that's on here or not. Yeah. There's Goesdorf. We were there, yeah. See, that's where we went. That's one town. This one right here, I remember that, too. That's Wettendorf. That's all about I even remember right now because that's been too long ago.

William M. Gibson:

That's okay. Now, you were fighting your way across Germany, and you were -- that was started after the first of the year. And then how long were you in Germany?

Leroy Paul Baker:

Well, see, we were there until, as I remember this -- I can't remember for sure -- but I think it was sometime in later, latter part of March, the first of April we was there.

William M. Gibson:

Okay. You mentioned earlier when before we started recording that there came a point where you stopped for a few weeks.

Leroy Paul Baker:

Yeah.

William M. Gibson:

And you didn't, kind of, continue on what would have probably been your expected path.

Leroy Paul Baker:

Yeah.

William M. Gibson:

Can you tell me what happened there, and why it was that you stopped?

Leroy Paul Baker:

Well, we got to this little town right in this area, which is Limbach, and we stopped up here. Here's the date. It was April 16. And I was sent there for three days, and I asked my first sergeant, I said, "Sergeant Walker, what in the world are we waiting on?" And he said -- no, it wasn't Sergeant Walker. It wasn't him. It was -- well, whoever the first sergeant was. It wasn't Sergeant Walker because he left and went back here. I said, "What are we waiting on?" He said, "Well, we're waiting for the Germans to meet us" -- not the Germans, the Russians -- "waiting for the Russians to meet us." So that's what we did. We waited until the Russians came to a certain point. I never did see them. But, anyhow, it was in this area where the Russians came on over.

William M. Gibson:

And that was before anybody went from the Allied Troops went into Berlin; is that correct?

Leroy Paul Baker:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

William M. Gibson:

Is that what was the purpose of waiting for them?

Leroy Paul Baker:

Yeah. I was waiting for the -- well, they took over East Berlin, Russia did.

William M. Gibson:

Okay. And then where did your division go? You didn't go into Berlin at all; is that correct?

Leroy Paul Baker:

No, we did not. We left there and went down into Austria. And down in Austria, we pulled occupation duty down there. One of the things I remember when we first got down there, this little town down in Austria, was the concentration camp was there, and there were people in this concentration camp that their bodies just looked like sticks walking around. And there were furnaces in this concentration camp where the Germans, when they got a little bit sick, they'd just throw them in the furnace and burn them. That was the end of them. That was very demoralizing to see a thing like that, I'll tell you. And that will always be in my mind. So that's where we -- that's where we wound up down in Austria on occupation duty. Then we went back -- we left Austria and went back into Munich, Germany down in Mindelheim. That was June of 1945. And we were there until -- pulled occupation duty down in there up until last of September, first of October 1945.

William M. Gibson:

What was -- when you left Germany when you fought your way across Germany, when you got to that point on April 16 where you were waiting for the Russians, was that pretty much the end of your actual combat that you saw?

Leroy Paul Baker:

Yes. Yes, it was. Yes, it was. That was the -- that was the end of shooting, so to speak.

William M. Gibson:

A little bit more relaxed in there the remainder of your time?

Leroy Paul Baker:

Yeah. Yes, it was.

William M. Gibson:

Did you guys get a chance to do any sight-seeing at that point when you were doing occupation duty?

Leroy Paul Baker:

We did down in Austria. There was -- I don't think it shows it on here. I don't know whether this is it or not. Anyhow, I was down in the Austrian Alp Mountains, and there was a very large lake there by this little town where we were. And I don't remember who it was that got ahold of this boat. Anyhow, we rode around over that lake in that boat. So then we were going to move down to another boat -- another lake, and these boys that had got ahold of that boat decided, well, we'll put that on a truck, and we'll take it down to the next lake. So they got that thing about halfway up on that truck, and the rope broke, and that boat went flying back into the lake and went to the bottom, and that was the end of the boat. So . . . And there was -- the Alp Mountains are very beautiful. And this was -- what was it -- in June. In June we were down there. You could see snow on top of the Alp Mountains, and at the foot of the Alp Mountains, there was snow was probably 20 foot deep and would probably never melt due to the high altitude. That was -- it was enjoyable down there.

William M. Gibson:

And then you were there until you were ready to ship back to the United States?

Leroy Paul Baker:

Yeah. Well, we went back in to see -- we went back into Germany from Austria, see, and we pulled occupation duty in Germany. I don't remember for sure just where we were when I got enough points to leave. I do know that the company was going to go back into Czechoslovakia and do some occupation duty there. That's where they left after I had left, you know, went back into Czechoslovakia.

William M. Gibson:

Now, by the time you got enough points to leave, how long had you been in the European theater from the time you arrived in England until the time that you were doing your last duty back in --

Leroy Paul Baker:

Fifteen months. I was in the ETO 15 months, and 10 of that 15 months was spent on the front lines, and we were never off a day.

William M. Gibson:

And when you came back to the United States, you came back by ship; is that correct?

Leroy Paul Baker:

Yeah.

William M. Gibson:

And did you come back into the New York Harbor area?

Leroy Paul Baker:

No. We landed at Newport News, Virginia.

William M. Gibson:

Okay.

Leroy Paul Baker:

Anyhow, when we -- we got on trains, boxcars, went back to Marseilles, France. And in my duffle bag, I had a German Luger. I had a P-38, and I had a P-35. Those were German pistols. We were going along on that trip back to Marseilles, and all at once the train stopped way out in the middle of nowhere, and I thought what in the world are we stopped for. A little later, I found out that there was a boy in one of the boxcars up ahead of us that where I was, they got to messing around with one of those P-38s, and he had ammunition. He got to messing around with it, and that thing went off, and the bullet went across the boxcar and killed a boy in that boxcar. I tell you I got to thinking about that. I thought, well, if I take these guns home, somebody that happened to get ammunition for them, if somebody get killed with one of them, that would be on my mind the rest of my life. So when that train started moving, I reached in my duffle bag, first threw the German Luger out in the grass and then the P-38 and then the P-35, and I threw them all away, never did bring them home.

William M. Gibson:

Did you bring home any souvenirs from over there?

Leroy Paul Baker:

No. No, I didn't. I didn't. Those guns were the only souvenirs I had. It's pretty hard to get souvenirs when you're trying to keep from getting killed all the time, you know.

William M. Gibson:

I understand. I just had some other veterans tell me that there were just little things that they had picked up, kind of, knickknack type items that they were able to get back. But sometimes they had to get rid of them. They were told to get rid of them --

Leroy Paul Baker:

Yeah.

William M. Gibson:

-- at different times.

Leroy Paul Baker:

Yeah. I knew that. That's the reason why I didn't bother with it. And I don't know whether I would have actually got back with those guns or not, but a lot of boys did, so. But I didn't want to bring them back after that boy got killed. Going through the whole war, getting shot at all the time, and then on his way home, some guy fooling around with a German pistol, and he got killed. That just -- I didn't want the guns.

William M. Gibson:

That's understandable.

Leroy Paul Baker:

Yeah.

William M. Gibson:

Now, when you got to -- where did you sail out of from Europe when you --

Leroy Paul Baker:

Oh, we went down by train to Marseilles, France, and we were there for a few days. I don't remember just the exact time.

William M. Gibson:

Were you on leave at all there --

Leroy Paul Baker:

No.

William M. Gibson:

-- to run around?

Leroy Paul Baker:

No, no, huh-huh, no, no, no. We were there just waiting to get on the ship and go home. I do remember they gave everybody a flu shot, the men, when we sailed to Marseilles, France. We got on that ship to go home, I had the flu all the way back across the ocean. So my doctor had an awful time trying to get me to start taking flu shots, I'll tell you that. But we got on the General J.C. Breckinridge is the ship that we got on, and we left -- went out into the Mediterranean Sea, got out there a ways, and all at once that ship made a complete circle, and I thought for gosh sakes, do we got to go back. Why that ship made that complete circle, I never found out. But, anyhow, that was an experience there which we -- I remember -- I'll still be able to see that Rock of Gibraltar when we got -- went out on the Mediterranean Sea. But like I said, we landed back at Newport News, Virginia, and I never saw so many bands playing and people hollering. That was worth a whole lot, I tell you, the welcoming party that was there when we got there.

William M. Gibson:

What day was that when you returned, do you remember?

Leroy Paul Baker:

I think that was about -- can't remember for sure -- probably around 12th to 15th of October, because I know I had my 25th birthday right out in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean coming home. So it was around the 12th, 15th of October when we landed there.

William M. Gibson:

What was the first thing you did when you got off the ship and you got back on U.S. soil?

Leroy Paul Baker:

Well, we -- I don't remember the camp that we went to, and it was, kind of, a jumping off place to go to Camp Atterbury, Indiana, I guess. But I never did know what the name of that camp was where we stayed there for, I don't know, a day or two. That be Newport News, Virginia. Then we got on the train and went to Camp Atterbury, Indiana.

William M. Gibson:

And that's where you were discharged from?

Leroy Paul Baker:

Where I was discharged from was Camp Atterbury, Indiana.

William M. Gibson:

Now, when you got back to Camp Atterbury, were you able to see friends or family right away, or did you not see them until you got to your --

Leroy Paul Baker:

I didn't see -- no, I didn't see anybody. They gave us so much money -- I don't remember what it was -- when we got on the train and went back to Indianapolis. And then, I forget now, we went on a bus then up to Noblesville, and that's when I called home, and my oldest brother came and picked me up. My wife and my dad and my mother had went to town doing some shopping. They didn't know I was that close to home. But I knew my brother was; so I called him, and he came and picked me up and took me home.

William M. Gibson:

How about Phil ____, did he serve at all?

Leroy Paul Baker:

No, he did not.

William M. Gibson:

Did you have any other brothers?

Leroy Paul Baker:

Yeah. I had another brother that was -- he was in the military police down in Macon, Georgia.

William M. Gibson:

Okay.

Leroy Paul Baker:

But I had a brother-in-law that was -- he was in the Air Force. He's in the South Pacific. So he and I and my brother were the only three in the family that served in World War II.

William M. Gibson:

What was it like to see your older brother when you got back?

Leroy Paul Baker:

Well, I tell you what, if Martha left for a month and if Nancy left, too, and they came back, I'd be thrilled to see them both. That's how my feeling is. He and I were very close. I was real happy to see him.

William M. Gibson:

And when you got back, did you go back to -- did you go to school, or did you go right back into the work force or --

Leroy Paul Baker:

No.

William M. Gibson:

-- what did you do when you got back?

Leroy Paul Baker:

At the time before I was drafted, I was working at ?Delcor Reamy Danners?. And, of course, I was more or less in the building business before that, and then, of course, that went to pot during the war, you know. We couldn't even buy a two-by-four hardly. So, anyhow, I -- you had -- you could draw unemployment, military unemployment for so long after that, or you could go back to work. Well, my brother-in-law, he drew that unemployment. But I thought, well, golly, I got a wife and baby I got to take care of, and I got to have a place for them to live. So I thought, well, I know I can make more money over at Delcor Reamy than I could off of this the unemployment; so I went back to work. I worked three weeks, and Delcor Reamy went out on strike. Then I couldn't draw the military unemployment; so I had to hunt another job. So my late wife's folks worked at a milk factory in Sheridan, Indiana. So I got a job there and worked there, I don't know, two or three years. I decided I think I'll go back over to see if I can get back on Delcor Reamy, which I did. I worked over there for a while, and I wasn't happy with it. I was more or less born and raised in the building business. So I quit, and I went back into the building business, and that's where I retired from.

William M. Gibson:

And when you -- over the course of time from the time you got out of the Army, have you been to any of the reunions?

Leroy Paul Baker:

Yes. We had a 80th Infantry reunion here in Indianapolis.

William M. Gibson:

When was that held?

Leroy Paul Baker:

Huh?

William M. Gibson:

When was that held?

Leroy Paul Baker:

Oh, boy. I would say probably 1947, '46 -- no, about '47 I think it was. I'm more or less guessing on that because I can't remember exactly.

William M. Gibson:

But a couple years after?

Leroy Paul Baker:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. 80th Infantry Division reunion here in Indianapolis over at the Indiana River, and I saw some of my buddies there, and that was a nice, nice reunion. They've had, I think, maybe one or two since, but I don't remember where they were. They were way off in some other state. I never went.

William M. Gibson:

Now, have you kept in touch with any of the -- did you keep in touch after the war with any of the guys that you were --

Leroy Paul Baker:

Never did. Never did learn where any of them went or didn't have their address or anything, other than this one fellow.

William M. Gibson:

Right.

Leroy Paul Baker:

And so it's just like, I guess, when you got out, everybody got out, they all went their own ways you know --

William M. Gibson:

Back to wherever --

Leroy Paul Baker:

-- and started life all over again.

William M. Gibson:

And what would you say would be, like, the, I guess, the one -- the one thing that you took from that experience? Was there anything that you took from that and applied to the rest of your life in terms of how you approached life in appreciation of the time that you have here or that type of thing from having that experience?

Leroy Paul Baker:

Well, I tell you, when you see death every day for 10 straight months, you know that there's a hereafter, and you know there's a God. So . . .

William M. Gibson:

It strengthened your faith?

Leroy Paul Baker:

Huh?

William M. Gibson:

It strengthened your faith?

Leroy Paul Baker:

Yeah, yeah. So at the present time, I'm an elder in the church, the Christian Church of Sheridan and vice-chairman of the board and vice-chairman of the property committee. So I give as much time as I can to that.

William M. Gibson:

Yeah. And you mentioned earlier, when you came back that you had a wife and a baby to take care of.

Leroy Paul Baker:

Yes.

William M. Gibson:

How old was -- was it a son or daughter?

Leroy Paul Baker:

It was a son. He was two years old when I came back.

William M. Gibson:

So he had been pretty young when you left?

Leroy Paul Baker:

Yeah. He was a few months old when I left. Well, he was born in August of '44 -- no, I take that back. He was born in August of '43, and I left in the first day of July of '44. So he was close to a year old, somewhere around there. So he was still a little baby when I got back.

William M. Gibson:

How many other children did you have?

Leroy Paul Baker:

I had another son and my daughter.

William M. Gibson:

In that order?

Leroy Paul Baker:

Yep, yep.

William M. Gibson:

She's the youngest?

Leroy Paul Baker:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I wanted a girl; so when I got one, I quit.

William M. Gibson:

Did you treat her different than your boys?

Leroy Paul Baker:

Do what?

William M. Gibson:

Did you treat your daughter different than you did your boys?

Leroy Paul Baker:

Well, yeah, you treat a girl different than you do a boy. My youngest son, he lives in Scottsdale, Arizona, and he owns a distributorship for Zimmer (ph) Corporation up at Warsaw in orthopedics. He owns a distributorship for Arizona, New Mexico, and west Texas. So he's doing real well. The other boy lives in Bluffton, Indiana, and he is a city fire marshal, and he organizes the firemen in the fire department that they support ____+. So he's done real well, too.

William M. Gibson:

How many grandchildren do you have?

Leroy Paul Baker:

Well, I had five of my own. Then my youngest boy had a divorce and married a girl that had two. So I wound up with two stepgrandsons. And then after my late wife passed away, after a year and a half or so, Martha and I got married, and she had four grandsons. So I went from five to eleven. I got two great -- one great-grandson and one great-granddaughter.

William M. Gibson:

Now, you and your wife, Martha, here, how did you two meet?

Leroy Paul Baker:

Well, in church.

William M. Gibson:

In church?

Leroy Paul Baker:

In church. You know, you don't know how long your life is until you lose your companion. So I went along about a year and a half or so, and one Sunday at church, I sat in the pew up -- END OF SIDE ONE, TAPE ONE; BEGIN SIDE TWO, TAPE ONE.

William M. Gibson:

Okay. Go ahead. You were talking about meeting your wife, Martha, there in church.

Leroy Paul Baker:

Yeah. She was in church that Sunday, and, of course, I knew her for several years. And her late husband, she and him owned a pharmacy in Sheridan. And so he was in the military, also, and he was also a Mason. He and I both belonged to the Masonic Lodge. So I knew the family and had for several years. I just thought, well, I believe, I believe she would be all right to live with the rest of my life. So, anyhow, we got married in November of -- what was it? '80 -- '88, wasn't it? And so we got along pretty well. Our families have, too, so.

William M. Gibson:

It sounds as though you've been fortunate to have two good loves in your life.

Leroy Paul Baker:

Yeah, yeah, that's right, yeah.

William M. Gibson:

How long were you and your first wife married?

Leroy Paul Baker:

Forty-five years, yeah. It's a --

William M. Gibson:

You only have 31 more years with Martha to match that.

Leroy Paul Baker:

Yeah, yeah. Well, of course, it's different. It's a different life, different for your family, but it beats living alone, I'll tell you that all to pieces. The same not only for me, but I'm sure for her, too.

William M. Gibson:

Sure. When we started, you mentioned and your daughter had mentioned that you'd recently done some speaking about your experiences there within your hometown.

Leroy Paul Baker:

Yeah.

William M. Gibson:

Can you tell me a little bit about what that's been like for you to share your stories there with the people of your town?

Leroy Paul Baker:

Well, I'd never done it before. My daughter just told you that dad never said much about it. And some of the things you've heard is one of the reasons. But the men's club of the Methodist church, one of the fellows that belonged to it came and asked me if I would want to speak on World War II to them. That was on November 11th of last year. So I agreed to. So I had maps, and I had what all else up there and spoke to the men's class. Well, when I walked into that church, that church basement that day, there sat my daughter. I thought, oh, boy. But, anyhow, I didn't let that bother me. I went ahead, and I showed them where we went, told them a lot about how it is, around the same thing I've told you. I got a real nice letter from the men's club thanking me for the visit. Then the Lions Club in Sheridan had heard about this; so they wanted to know if I would come down and speak to the Lions Club on World War II, which I did that, too. And then last year on the Fourth of July, they -- the Lions Club honored all World War II veterans, and they -- the head of the Lions Club asked me if I would speak out at the park when we got out there, excuse me, which I did. So I didn't mind doing it at all. You know, out at the park, when I finished and we were through, there was three people from the Noblesville Ledger paper came flocking up to me and asking all kind of questions. Wound up one day, I got the Noblesville Ledger, and there was my picture in there and some of the things that I talked about in the paper. But out there at the park that day after I talked to the people from the Noblesville Ledger, there was a fellow came to me and learned I had those maps, and he wanted to look at those maps, and he was telling me about his father had served, and his father got killed. And he said that that meant a lot to him. He'd never seen those maps before. So he was -- he was real nice to come talk to me about it, and I answered his questions, and I enjoyed talking to him, really.

William M. Gibson:

About how many veterans were there on the Fourth of July when they were honored, do you remember, from World War II?

Leroy Paul Baker:

Forty-some, I think, because I remember -- 48 runs in my mind, but forty-some veterans there.

William M. Gibson:

Are you and any of those gentlemen, have you -- any of you become fast friends as you've stayed in the Sheridan area or, kind of, grew up there?

Leroy Paul Baker:

Oh, yes. I am friendly with those, more or less, good friends with all of them, really, yeah. There's one fellow that Martha and I visit back and forth with them all the time. He was in the Air Force, but he never did leave the United States. So it was a real, real nice thing that the Lions Club did to honor all of us World War II veterans.

William M. Gibson:

Now, are you planning to give more speeches?

Unidentified Speaker:

He is, but he doesn't know it. I'm the children's librarian at our public library there in Sheridan, and one of the ladies that brings her grandson wants me to have him come up on Wednesday. We have story time and for about an hour and a half, and I read a story, and normally we do an arts and crafts.

William M. Gibson:

From what age group --

Unidentified Speaker:

Well, this is three, four, and five. So he's going to have to bring his speech level down a little bit. And she has asked me if I would ask him to come up and talk to the children about that, and then we were going to make an American flag. But I hadn't said anything to him yet about it. So he didn't know about that.

William M. Gibson:

Well, you're now booked officially to speak to the children.

Leroy Paul Baker:

That's okay. You know, these schools should have, I think, have veterans to come out and speak to the kids at school. Of course, a lot of these kids, World War II don't mean anything to them. Some day they're going to want to know about it. That's the reason why I was thrilled about this thing here today.

William M. Gibson:

Umhum.

Leroy Paul Baker:

Of course, oh, 50, 60 years from now, somebody may want to know something about World War II. So they can go to the Congressional Library and find it out.

William M. Gibson:

And get a firsthand account from you and thousands of others.

Leroy Paul Baker:

I think that's great. I really do.

William M. Gibson:

Is there anything else that you'd like to add here today? Any other stories that just come to mind from your military experience or things that have happened to you because of having military experience?

Leroy Paul Baker:

Well, I don't know. I think I've said about everything.

William M. Gibson:

Well, Mr. Baker, it was a pleasure to have you today and your wife and your daughter, and we'll make sure we get this to the Library of Congress for you.

Leroy Paul Baker:

Okay. Good.