Ambassador’s Remarks at Press Roundtable (June 9, 2008)
-- BEGIN AMBASSADOR JONES REMARKS -- Ambassador: Thanks. It is a pleasure to welcome you to the Embassy. Particularly in Kuwait, it is exciting to be an Ambassador because you enjoy a level of press freedom and freedom of speech that is unusual and remarkable in this part of the world. In the past six weeks that I have been here, it has been extremely fascinating and refreshing for me to hear the kind of debate and dialogue that takes place very openly in your society and in your newspapers. And you as the press have an extraordinarily important role to play, because a responsible press is critical to a democratic society. I’m fond of quoting our forefathers; one of the authors of our Bill of Rights, Thomas Jefferson, often said, “If you take from me every freedom but freedom of speech I can use that to earn all my other freedoms back.” For us, freedom of speech, and by extension freedom of the press, is hugely important. An open and respectful dialogue that’s honest and that takes into account a number of factors is important. For that reason, today I would ask that we not ask a lot of hypothetical questions. I am not going to respond to hypothetical questions on the record -- that is one of the first rules that we learn in the Department of State. I served before as a public affairs advisor to the Assistant Secretary so we can be very clever as to how we respond to things. I think you have seen by now that I am a very frank and open person. I want to have an open and honest dialogue with you out of respect for each other.
[Arabic Translation] Shawki Mahmoud from Al-Seyassah: First, let me thank you, your excellency, for inviting us to this press conference and we hope that it is a good start. As you have just mentioned, you have been in Kuwait for the past six or seven weeks and you have had a noticeable and active participation [in Kuwaiti society], which is very much appreciated by us. However, I have a question that Kuwaitis want me to ask you: “What [sources] did the U.S. Department of State rely on in writing the recent Trafficking in Persons Report on Kuwait?”
Ambassador: I am glad that you asked that. Trafficking in persons is a global challenge that we all face. We face it because in the current global economic system human capital is relatively inexpensive. And it flows, just like financial capital. And there is a real temptation everywhere in the world to exploit that capital. We believe, in keeping with our own Constitution and our own beliefs about human rights, that every human being -- as our President has said -- has non-negotiable rights. In other words, they have absolute rights to dignity, to freedom, and to the enjoyment of the rule of law. In the United States we also have some issues in trafficking in persons that we are trying to address; but in Kuwait there have been some particularly egregious areas -- difficult areas -- in treatment of domestics in particular. And the report is very specific about these cases. We base our report on facts gained from within Kuwait: speaking to Kuwaitis, speaking to the victims as well. I noticed in fact your own press. And actually I was pleased to see that your own press has been very open and honest about addressing this problem.
Some of the issues that we have raised are the issues of violence towards domestics, abuse, long hours, withholding payment, and not providing a shelter for domestics. In fact, the victims of domestic abuse are treated as if they were criminals. In fact, treating the victims of domestic abuse as if they were criminals; not criminalizing trafficking in persons -- the practice -- and not prosecuting, not bringing to justice the people who are themselves trafficking in persons. This is again a problem everywhere. Every day in the United States we catch someone who is bringing a truckload of people into the U.S. to use for labor. This is a challenge that confronts all of us. Economically advanced, wealthy societies often rely on labor from other countries to do the work that our own nationals do not want to do. This is something that I had a very good exchange with your Minister -- who is a very serious person -- in advance of the report’s release. He has a lot of experience. He’s a technocrat even though he hasn’t been in government. He’s trained in the legal profession. We had a very good exchange, a fruitful exchange. I am not going to go into details of it in public. But I think that he understands what we’re saying.
One of the things that surprises me a little bit, and I’ll be very honest with you, is that in my more than a quarter of a century in the Middle East, I have seen such a charitable, compassionate, and generous face of Islam; it is part of the religion itself. And yet there seems to be a real blind spot when it comes to dealing with domestics. And I don’t understand that. And what I don’t want is that this is the face that the rest of the world sees -- from countries I know are far better than that in terms of their people. So I am saying: let’s work together on this. We all have the problem so let’s work on this. Let’s treat these people as human beings who are trying to earn livings for their families, like all of us.
[Arabic Translation] Eman Al-Awadhi from Kuwait News Agency, KUNA: You started your tenure working on labor issues and human trafficking. On what other issues do you intend to focus to further promote bilateral relations?
Ambassador: Well, let me correct that. I started off the day after I arrived, two days after, with the Iraq Neighbors Conference, with the Secretary of State. We have a broad bilateral relationship with Kuwait that has its basis, well, depends how far you want to go back. Some people like to point to the Missionary Hospital, the American Hospital here. But on a political level it started with the re-flagging of Kuwaiti ships to protect them from Iranian attacks during the Iran-Iraq War. And then of course there was the invasion, which I think some of you are too young to have experienced fully. But for some of us it seems as though it were yesterday. And then of course the relationship has progressed beyond that.
My overall goals are to expand on our important and indispensable security relationship with each other. Obviously, Kuwait is an indispensable partner and ally for the United States, and I said that in Washington publicly before coming here. It is also to develop other areas as well, which deal with building civil society. Obviously we have been very active meeting new members of Parliament and going to the diwaniyas after the elections, which was a lot of fun. I intend to continue to do that and expand those relationships. I’m not here to point and say, ‘Do this, do that -- calibrate.’ I’m here to say that we are partners. What can we learn from each other? What can we do for each other? How can we support each other? Obviously we have a strong interest in supporting Kuwait’s vibrant and boisterous democracy. Democracy can be very active and loud. Sometimes I say to people that every democracy has its own internal logic. People on the outside cannot understand it like nationals can understand it.
On the economic front, in addition to our classic and standard energy interests -- and of course, energy security is important for us -- I also have an interest in seeing how we can move into the 21st century and use new synergies: developing in other parts of the world new combinations of capital and regional expertise in ways that are environmentally correct or that help to build economies outside of our own very advanced economies. We are in a very curious time where we have more liquidity, more capital, more money floating around than we have industrial base that knows what to do with it. So we have to start thinking in new ways -- how we develop the rest of the world and how countries that work like ours, how countries function like countries that can provide for their own nationals and who have governments that work, how do we go out in the rest of the world and strengthen that world -- build it up so that our children live in a world that works together. And make it a world that’s not at each other’s throats; that is not what we want. I am a mother and I want my children to inherit a world that is a better place.
Obviously in the financial field we have a lot of interests. In transportation for instance, we just had our Secretary of Transportation here. Kuwait has some major development projects. I think most people do not realize that we have had two advisors here since 1968 working with your Transportation Ministry, two engineers who serve together with yours; and many of your own engineers have been educated, I’m proud to say, in the United States. In the southwest where I am from we have very similar weather conditions, believe it or not. (I am learning to enjoy the "toz," a word I have learned to say very carefully). The range of issues reflects the size and the importance of the relationship. [Issues include] Iraq and regional integration, regional stability and the peace process, support for the Palestinians and other things. On any given week I am doing things on all of those and working with your government. And I have often said to people: “It is not always easy being friends with an elephant.” An elephant is very good at protecting you and to lean on, but sometimes elephants can also make a very big mess in your yard. But we are here to work together on that relationship in a positive way so that the elephant is supportive of our smaller but equally important friend.
[Arabic Translation] Diana Elias from Associated Press: Recently a Kuwaiti who was released from Guantanamo Bay carried out attacks against the U.S. in Iraq. Would you say that former prisoners should be monitored more closely and put in programs that would help them become better integrated into their societies?
Ambassador: Clearly we have concerns about the activities of former Guantanamo and other detainees or other individuals. As you all know, there is very credible evidence that a former Guantanamo detainee plus two other Kuwaitis engaged in suicide bombings in Mosul. There is a lot of concern over how to better track or control such individuals or work more closely together so that these kinds of things do not happen. As we say in English, we need to mitigate or to make less possible the potential for that to occur, and it is a challenge. It is a challenge in a society that has laws. We understand that but we do believe that more needs to be done. It is a conversation that we are having and we are working on it with the government, which I believe shares our concern that al-Qaeda and other elements not have freedom to act in our societies and not have the freedom to support activities that undermine our larger interests. If we cannot stabilize the situation in Iraq because of al-Qaeda activities there, that will have an impact on Kuwait as well.
[Arabic Translation] Mansour Abu Al-Azem, Managing Editor from Al-Wasat: In the previous question, you talked about how we can establish stability in Iraq. Do you have any information regarding Kuwaitis who are traveling to fight American troops in Iraq? And is there any kind of cooperation between you and the Kuwaiti authorities in this regard?
Ambassador: Obviously, the foreign fighters in Iraq are a problem and a challenge. It is something we think we have started dealing with very effectively together with Prime Minister Al-Maliki. Kuwait by no means has the largest number of foreign fighters in Iraq. That does not mean that it is not serious. I am not saying that there is not a problem of facilitation and of funding of foreign fighters that we need to address. We do believe that there should be some more steps taken, as has been the case in Saudi Arabia, to identify and to work to reintegrate extremists into society. What is causing these young men to do this? Obviously there is a wide area of issues we could all speculate about or hypothesize about, but the point is that we work together in a number of ways on a number of levels to try to prevent their traveling to Iraq. That has been a problem. Obviously issues of border security and controlling borders, and keeping tabs on who is traveling, those are areas of concern and areas for cooperation. It is a shared concern, and therefore one we work together on.
Follow up question: Do you have the number of Kuwaitis who have actually gone [to Iraq]?
Ambassador: The number of Kuwaitis who have actually gone, no I don’t. I have been told that it represents one percent or less. Kuwait’s population is not huge, but the majority of the foreign fighters are coming from other areas, as I understand it. The concern here is probably facilitation, but we are working on that. And frankly, in terms of Iraq, it is going to be interesting because Al-Maliki has moved very capably to secure things in Basrah, then in Mosul, then in Sadr City, and now in Amarah. I think that the impact is being felt in terms of overall security.
Follow up question: Is it more dangerous now in Iraq?
Ambassador: No. I think the security situation is getting better in Iraq. But I think that we can match that with investments and other activities, there are various ways to combat foreign fighters. One is to have the Iraqis themselves say to the foreign fighters that we do not want you here because we want our society to stabilize and grow. We owe that to Iraq.
[Arabic Translation] Abdullah Al-Rashed from Awan: What is your assessment of the recent elections in Kuwait? Does the fact that a majority of seats have been won by Islamists cause any concern to you? What is your opinion on the hijab issue regarding Ministers Moudhi Al-Humoud and Noureya Al-Sabih, which has been raised by the Islamists?
Ambassador: Obviously, it’s not for me to question or comment on the democratic choices made by the Kuwaiti people in their elections. As I have said before, as an observer of elections, as with any election, including in the United States, democracy is an organic process that evolves in every country. A question that we always have is, “Do the mechanics, the mechanisms of your democratic system, provide an accurate reflection of your constituency, of the people who are voting? That is always a challenge. And in every democracy, there are re-drawing of voting district maps. We call it “gerrymandering” in the United States. It is a funny word and combines the word salamander because of the shape of the salamander and the way that some of the neighborhood districts end up looking. So these are political tactics that always have to be fine-tuned in democratic societies to accurately reflect the various constituencies. I think there are several important components of democracy, which include institutions and the respect for institutions and rule of law. Rule of law is critical. So the politicians add another factor into that, which is the reflection of a changing society as they are voted in to office. The mechanisms of democracy should be able to capture that changing society and reflect the popular will.
In terms of ministers and people who have been assigned -- again, as an observer, I have to assume that since your government chooses the ministers, since the cabinet is not elected -- I have to presume that your government has selected people who they believe will represent the views of the government. If I am not representing the views of my government, I should be removed from Kuwait immediately, no matter what my clever personal views are; that is not who pays my salary, that is not why I am here, and that is not why I get the big car and the big house. The same thing I would say for our cabinet ministers in the United States. I would expect that any cabinet secretary, in our case, who has accepted the President's invitation to serve as secretary has an obligation to support the President's programs and to support the administration's goals. So as someone who comes from that kind of a system, that is my assumption. How that works in your system is for Kuwaitis and for your government to work out.
[Arabic Translation] Ambassador: Yes, and on your other question; obviously as an American whether a woman covers or not is a non-issue for us in the United States. It is a personal choice that is protected by our laws. We do not get involved in these kinds of matters. I would have assumed that there are enough challenges facing Kuwait right now that there are far more important issues to focus on than whether someone is covering their hair or not.
[Arabic Translation]
Ambassador: By the way, I did comment to our Secretary of Transportation when she was here after we had a big meeting with all of the under secretaries and engineers on the other side of the table. I made a point. I said, “You realize that the only Kuwaiti that you have spoken with today at this meeting who was uncovered is a woman, because of course the men cover as well. It’s a cultural thing, with respect.”
[Not translated into Arabic] Hatem Al-Zein from Al Rai: In its annual report, Washington has expressed its dissatisfaction with Kuwaiti officials on issues such as fighting terrorism, money laundering, and human rights. What exactly should Kuwait do to satisfy Washington, and thus avoid being put on black lists?
Ambassador: We have got legislation that would basically criminalize some of these activities: money laundering activities and the trafficking in persons issue. In terms of its own citizens, we have not criticized Kuwait on human rights. But in terms of the trafficking issues that we have talked about -- the domestics -- that is where we have had an issue. Kuwait moved to the second tier [in the United States Government’s assessment of the countries’ response to the trafficking challenge] last year on the basis of commitments to undertake some of these things, such as creating a permanent shelter for domestics and to criminalize trafficking. And things kind of fell through the cracks. The same thing on money laundering. These are issues that we believe need to be legislatively criminalized so that people can be prosecuted in the courts for them and therefore prevent further trafficking abuses. It’s not enough to say “don’t do it,” but if you do it there will be consequences. I don’t know if you have children, but empty threats generally don’t work very well.
[Arabic Translation] Bouchra Al-Zein from Anbaa: The U.S. Administration has announced a security agreement with the Iraqi government or the building of U.S. bases in Iraq. Is this action directed at Iran?
Ambassador: We are in negotiations in Iraq for what will govern the continuing presence of our forces there, as we continue to seek to stabilize the country. Again, that is still in negotiation; and again, to be honest, I’m not familiar with the details of the negotiations. This is not about creating a base for attacking Iran. But if you look historically, everywhere the United States has been involved successfully in a war of liberation, whether it’s Germany, South Korea or Japan, we still have a troop presence there. I mean, this seems to be what happens because you stabilize, you stay, and many times the countries want us there. I have sometimes amused many Kuwaitis -- because they have said that before 2003 we never had dust here, that before the invasion of Iraq [the weather] was never like this. And I’ve said, “Well that is interesting, because when I visited in 1984, when I used to live in Baghdad, there was dust here.” But never mind; I’ll pretend it wasn’t there. And the point is, and I said, “Do you want me to remove our troops here?” No. You have been gracious hosts here, and we think it’s a mutually beneficial arrangement. I think that everyone would agree that in Iraq it would not be wise or prudent to leave a society that is going to take some time to gel and connect -- and especially with the kind of aggression that there is in the region. And I would like to say that Iran has been all sweet and innocent, but I don’t think any of us believe that that’s the case; it is not. It is prudent for the United States to maintain a posture in the countries of the region that is appropriate, with the agreement and concurrence of the countries in the region which provide you stability and provides us -- both of us --with security and stability, and a basis for continuing our progress in a non-aggressive way. We are taking a diplomatic approach to Iran, if that is your underlying question. We are not trying to build a base to attack. Look at the broader context historically -- why do we still have military in Brussels, Germany, and Europe when World War II ended in 1945?
[Arabic Translation] Wafaa Kansour, Al-Watan Arabic Daily: After the elections in Lebanon that resulted in the victory of General Michel Suleiman as President of Lebanon, President Bush and Secretary of State Rice announced their full support for the President of Lebanon. At the same time America has always maintained that Iran and Syria have control over Lebanon. What, in your opinion, is the significance of the President’s support for the President of Lebanon? And is there going to be any future consideration for disarming Hezbollah in Lebanon?
Ambassador: With respect to Lebanon, all that I am going to say is that we were pleased that an agreement was reached, that things were worked out to allow the government of Lebanon to continue forward and to have its elections which had been held off for a long time, 18 months. Everything was pretty frozen. Obviously, we have a lot of concerns about the role Hezbollah played and their mischief in basically choking off the capital of Beirut. We are here to support an independent -- and when I say independent I mean without choking vines from any neighbors – Lebanon, sovereign and free. But the point is that we all know the realities of politics. There are indigenous groups that receive support and are playing a game also with outside powers and influences. As I said, we support an independent, sovereign Lebanon -- progressive, democratic, with a free press: the Lebanon that all Kuwaitis love to go and visit. And why? Because it is a Lebanon that is free, sovereign, independent, and its character is Lebanese.
[Arabic Translation] Laila Sarraf from Al-Qabas: Your Excellency, what is your assessment of the U.S. elections so far, in light of the recent withdrawal of the Democratic candidate Senator Hilary Clinton and the victory of Barack Obama?
Ambassador: Did I understand correctly? Is this a hypothetical question? This is going to be an exciting U.S election. I think what is very exciting about it is that our system -- what we have been talking about before -- how does a free and open democratic system produce candidates who reflect society? For the first time we had two highly qualified individuals who represented sectors of society who never had reached that level before. It makes me very proud as an American to have seen that. I talked earlier about the internal logic of politics and elections and democracies. Things are said and done during elections that people know are said for the purpose of getting votes and then when someone is elected to the presidency it is like when someone becomes or goes from being a regular judge to being a Supreme Court Justice. You have to move to another level -- you think in national terms. We are going to see a very tough race run between John McCain and Barack Obama. I think that you are going to see every voice in America who is looking for change or looking for continuity -- like in every society.
In this world today, it is not about Islam vs. Christianity or Islam vs. Judaism; it is about tradition versus modernity. I think most of us try to find a balance in the middle somewhere in our own lives. Extreme orthodoxy sometimes denies our humanity; extreme modernity sometimes denies our spirituality. As human beings we try to find the balance, and I think that is what we were sent here to learn in our lives: the balance. The world is not a place drawn with lines on the globe -- the world is divided by levels of information and education. My sixteen year old daughter can get together with any of your sixteen year old daughters or sons and they can communicate about a world they share. Then you have the others: they lack, they have not been given the opportunity for education, or they have not been given the opportunity for economic growth.
This is what I talked about initially. What are my goals? What do we need to be doing in the world, to integrate, to work on building one world where opportunity is available to everyone? That is the beauty of our society, that we have equal opportunities, that we work on having equal opportunities. You are going to see in the United States an argument between people who say that we have an economic crisis with the sub-prime mortgage issues, or there is an energy issue or there are educational concerns or there are health concerns. These are universal concerns shared by people throughout the world. How do you provide that for your population? We have issues. Some people think that immigration in the United States is causing us a problem. I saw a proposal today in the paper here about separating health services. This is not uncommon to see in democracies, because people have different opinions and they are going to argue about those opinions. What I am certain of is that on January 20th we will have a new President, and the United States will continue to support longstanding policies – including on human rights and democracy.
Someone once said that trying to change U.S. foreign policy is like trying to get an aircraft carrier, like the John F. Kennedy, to turn a circle in a small pond. You have to go very slowly because we are a big country and we have a lot of interests and we have a big bureaucracy, and we have our own crazy political internal logic. You know it takes time, it is incremental, but you have to listen to what people have to say. We also have a Congress -- our own National Assembly. They have opinions and they believe correctly that the Constitution of the United States gives them the right to express those and to say to the President: you need to do this. Congress makes us do the Trafficking in Persons Report. It is not that the administration does not believe in these values, but Congress also has mandated the Human Rights Report and others. They said: this is what we believe in as a people. You should be out not only making business deals making sure oil flows -- you should also be making sure that we reflect our values overseas.
So, whoever comes in is going to be part of what our Founding Fathers called the “invitation to struggle” between the three branches of government: between the Supreme Court, which is the Rule of Law, between Congress, which is the legislative branch that represents the will of the people also, and between the Executive Branch, which is us and the President. We work for the President, and every time we want to move forward, someone else is going to make us move like that, and that is probably just as well, because you do not want an elephant running through your neighborhood. You want us walking gently through your neighborhood. We leave something behind us like all elephants. Anyway, I am glad you are here. I have a question for all of you.
[Arabic Translation]
Ambassador: I have a final question for you all. Next time I see you I will be asking you: Where do you want the relationship to go between the United States and Kuwait? What would you like to see happen in that policy; what is your ideal relationship? Think about that and what you would like to see the U.S. doing in the region. We and Kuwait have a very active dialogue; we have a marriage. I do not know if you are married or not, but after so many years, you have a dialogue. Some things you disagree upon, or you accept, or you compromise, or you work together, but you can share the larger goals, which we do, and you will keep working towards those.
[Arabic Translation]
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