From lubell at nist.gov Fri Oct 8 17:31:58 2004 From: lubell at nist.gov (Josh Lubell) Date: Fri Oct 8 16:40:44 2004 Subject: [step-os] STEP Modules Repository EXPRESS Model (STEPmod) Specification Message-ID: <4167074E.7010309@nist.gov> I created an initial vesion of documentation for the XML schema for EXPRESS models that the STEP Modules Respository uses. Typical module developers probably won't be terribly interested, but this may be useful for implementers of STEP software tools as well as those developing XSLT for the modules repository. The URL is http://stepmod.sourceforge.net/express_model_spec/ I created the documentation in a "Java Doc"-like manner by first converting the EXPRESS model DTD into RELAX NG, adding annotations documenting the elements and attributes, and using XSLT to transform the RELAX NG structures, front matter, and documentation to HTML. The source code is in stepmod/doc/spec in the CVS repository on SourceForge. Feedback is welcome. Josh From lubell at nist.gov Wed Oct 13 15:47:41 2004 From: lubell at nist.gov (Josh Lubell) Date: Wed Oct 13 14:55:47 2004 Subject: [step-os] updated version of STEPmod EXPRESS model documentation Message-ID: <416D865D.2070707@nist.gov> I added documentation for more EXPRESS constructs and fixed some display problems with Internet Explorer. I also added a link to the stepmod home page (http://stepmod.sourceforge.net) pointing to the documentation. The updated document is at http://stepmod.sourceforge.net/express_model_spec/ Josh -- Joshua Lubell National Institute of Standards and Technology Manufacturing Systems Integration Division 100 Bureau Drive, Stop 8263 Gaithersburg MD 20899-8263, USA Phone: 1-301-975-3563, Fax: 1-301-975-4694 Email: lubell@nist.gov From golux at comcast.net Wed Oct 13 16:00:56 2004 From: golux at comcast.net (Stephen Waterbury) Date: Wed Oct 13 15:10:12 2004 Subject: [step-os] updated version of STEPmod EXPRESS model documentation In-Reply-To: <416D865D.2070707@nist.gov> References: <416D865D.2070707@nist.gov> Message-ID: <416D8978.10102@comcast.net> Josh Lubell wrote: > I added documentation for more EXPRESS constructs and fixed some display > problems with Internet Explorer. I also added a link to the stepmod home > page (http://stepmod.sourceforge.net) pointing to the documentation. > > The updated document is at > http://stepmod.sourceforge.net/express_model_spec/ I just skimmed the document -- nice work! It looks very clear and well organized. Thanks for doing this, Josh! Cheers, Steve From david.price at eurostep.com Mon Oct 18 07:06:19 2004 From: david.price at eurostep.com (David Price) Date: Mon Oct 18 06:19:12 2004 Subject: [step-os] FW: SF Message-ID: <000001c4b502$7ed84040$2101a8c0@esukpc20> Anyone know anything about this? David -----Original Message----- From: Phil Spiby [mailto:Phil.Spiby@Eurostep.com] Sent: 18 October 2004 11:26 To: Rob Bodington; Nigel Shaw; David Price Subject: FW: We may need to consider the issues discussed in this article, before we depend too heavily on SourceForge. Phil -----Original Message----- From: Mats Lindeblad [mailto:mats@lindeblad.se] Sent: 16 October 2004 18:55 To: phil.spiby@eurostep.com Cc: fredrik.wanman@volvo.com; mats.lindeblad@volvo.com Subject: Phil, How open is sourceforge? Check out the following article: http://www.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-10-20-01.en.html Regards, Mats -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://step.nasa.gov/pipermail/step-os/attachments/20041018/d2131519/attachment.html From edbark at nist.gov Mon Oct 18 12:02:56 2004 From: edbark at nist.gov (Ed Barkmeyer) Date: Mon Oct 18 11:10:19 2004 Subject: [step-os] FW: SF In-Reply-To: <000001c4b502$7ed84040$2101a8c0@esukpc20> References: <000001c4b502$7ed84040$2101a8c0@esukpc20> Message-ID: <4173E930.4060206@nist.gov> David Price wrote: > Anyone know anything about this? > ... > Check out the following article: > > http://www.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-10-20-01.en.html A quick look at this says that it is OLD NEWS. The original of this article was posted 11.11.2001!!! (The English version is dated July 2004, but the translations have earlier dates.) The earliest of the translations on the site is in Spanish from Feb 2002, and is not substantially different in content from the most recent revision of the English text. The Spanish version also claims that the Savannah server will be available "at the end of the year". So whatever the problem may be, it began about July of 2001. It is my personal opinion that the author of this piece was justifiably concerned about the legal wrangle with SourceForge, in that he had contributed to the SourceForge toolkit and was in the process of launching a "competitive" site -- the Savannah site -- and had doubtless taken the 2001 edition of the SourceForge tools as part of his software base for the Savannah site. And I imagine that arrangements with VA Linux on the subject of the SourceForge software maintenance toolkit are rather more complicated than the other freeware arrangements. But I don't see this as a concern for most of us. I don't know anything about the current state of export from SourceForge, but I am sure it has been upgraded since the end of 2001. If export is generally problematic and has gotten more difficult in the last few years, that may be a more serious concern. But export of the maintenance record, export of all current configurations, and export of a single snapshot of the code package are also three entirely different concerns. Transferring maintenance of a software package from one system to another is like transferring maintenance of a mechanical design from one PDM to another. The only approach likely to succeed is to transfer one baseline, or one set of baselines, to the new system, build the configuration management structures on the new system, and continue from there. Anything else is too much dependent on the internal structure of configuration and change management in the two PDM systems. To transfer those structures, you have to define an exchange standard and formalize the intended business practice in terms of that standard. That is why the STEP PDM Schema, and why there are assorted CDIF, ISO and OMG standards in the software engineering area. But those SE standards have conflicting models (probably matching various native models), and it may be a whole new software project to render the Sourceforge maintenance and configuration models into one of those standard forms. It is my impression that the issue that prompted the original posting in late 2001 was "transferring maintenance" in "native mode" for the SourceForge maintenance tools. And I repeat, I don't think that is a problem for the open-source STEP promulgation work. I could be completely wrong about where Dachary was coming from, and others of you may disagree about the significance to the STEP-os work. I do suggest that we get better-educated information before we start worrying... -Ed -- Edward J. Barkmeyer Email: edbark@nist.gov National Institute of Standards & Technology Manufacturing Systems Integration Division 100 Bureau Drive, Stop 8264 Tel: +1 301-975-3528 Gaithersburg, MD 20899-8264 FAX: +1 301-975-4694 "The opinions expressed above do not reflect consensus of NIST, and have not been reviewed by any Government authority." From edbark at nist.gov Mon Oct 18 12:04:41 2004 From: edbark at nist.gov (Ed Barkmeyer) Date: Mon Oct 18 11:12:04 2004 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: [step-os] SourceForge]] Message-ID: <4173E999.7030407@nist.gov> -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Fwd: [step-os] SourceForge] Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 11:55:21 -0400 From: David Flater To: Ed Barkmeyer References: <4173E10B.8030408@nist.gov> In a message dated 2004-10-18 11:28-0400, Ed Barkmeyer wrote: > Dave, > > My reading on this is that it is old news, and the original author was > in an unusual position. But you may be able to shed more light on this. The changes seem to affect only people who are involved in the software that *is* Sourceforge, as opposed to open source projects that are hosted *on* Sourceforge. The copyright grab seems to me little different than what happened when Mosaic became Netscape (long before Mozilla walked the earth). Perhaps VA Linux is trying harder to collect documentation so it will hold up in court, but Netscape never got a release from the organization(s) that supported Mosaic and it held up anyway. (Probably if you just say "trade secret" and "proprietary" a lot and withhold all the evidence, you get out of jail free.) On the face of it, OMG should see this as an opportunity to schmooze with another struggling software company rather than a threat to its hosted projects. If a threat does exist, it's not in this article you sent me to but in the fine print of the Sourceforge hosting agreement. Somebody should read it carefully to make sure there is nothing in there that could be used to make a grab for hosted projects. You practially need a full-time lawyer to guard against this stuff nowadays. Every agreement has a loophole to the effect of "...and you agree to accept any future changes to this agreement if they are published and you don't react within [insanely short time period while you are on vacation]." Who can keep up? -- David Flater, National Institute of Standards and Technology, U.S.A. -- Edward J. Barkmeyer Email: edbark@nist.gov National Institute of Standards & Technology Manufacturing Systems Integration Division 100 Bureau Drive, Stop 8264 Tel: +1 301-975-3528 Gaithersburg, MD 20899-8264 FAX: +1 301-975-4694 "The opinions expressed above do not reflect consensus of NIST, and have not been reviewed by any Government authority." From golux at comcast.net Mon Oct 18 12:10:02 2004 From: golux at comcast.net (Stephen Waterbury) Date: Mon Oct 18 11:23:26 2004 Subject: [step-os] FW: SF In-Reply-To: <000001c4b502$7ed84040$2101a8c0@esukpc20> References: <000001c4b502$7ed84040$2101a8c0@esukpc20> Message-ID: <4173EADA.4030809@comcast.net> David Price wrote: > Anyone know anything about this? That was the first I had seen it. However, I know that several open-source projects only put their releases on SourceForge, rather than relying on SF project management features. That way, it is easier to move to another site (or their own) if necessary. Twisted (http://twistedmatrix.com) is one of them -- I use Twisted, which is open-source, and I never have to visit SF for it because they offer it from their own site (which is sponsored by DivMod, a project that also uses Twisted, on which some of the developers of Twisted work). Cheers, Steve From radack at ctc.com Mon Oct 18 12:26:29 2004 From: radack at ctc.com (Radack, Gerald) Date: Mon Oct 18 11:33:51 2004 Subject: [step-os] FW: SF Message-ID: <58BD7BA1E81ED54E88F2266E149D93D630529F@ctcjst-mail1.ad.ctcgsc.org> At the direction of SC4, the SC4 Secretariat has already set up a server to mirror the modules site on SourceForge as a backup in case SourceForge went away. Given the uncertaintly over licensing, couldn't we make that the development site, and use SourceForge for releases (or not at all)? Are we really dependent on proprietary SourceForge features, or could we use the last public release of SourceForge, or other open source software to run the site? At least if we had the master copy on the SC4 site, we would know that the SC4 site is up to date. At present, the SC4 Modules Mirror page on SC4ONLINE has the following cryptic message: Repository last updated (latest tarfile received at): 2003-07-23 22:44:22 Local repository last updated (last successful HTML build) at: 2004-10-11 23:10:32 Does that mean that no source has been transferred from SourceForge to SC4ONLINE for over a year? Gerry > -----Original Message----- > From: step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov > [mailto:step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov]On Behalf Of > Stephen Waterbury > Sent: Monday, October 18, 2004 12:10 PM > To: STEP Open-Source > Subject: Re: [step-os] FW: SF > > > David Price wrote: > > Anyone know anything about this? > > That was the first I had seen it. However, I know that several > open-source projects only put their releases on SourceForge, > rather than relying on SF project management features. That > way, it is easier to move to another site (or their own) if > necessary. Twisted (http://twistedmatrix.com) is one of > them -- I use Twisted, which is open-source, and I never have > to visit SF for it because they offer it from their own site > (which is sponsored by DivMod, a project that also uses > Twisted, on which some of the developers of Twisted work). > > Cheers, > Steve > > > _______________________________________________ > step-os mailing list > step-os@step.nasa.gov > http://step.nasa.gov/mailman/listinfo/step-os > From Nettles at aticorp.org Mon Oct 18 12:40:35 2004 From: Nettles at aticorp.org (Nettles, Darla) Date: Mon Oct 18 11:47:54 2004 Subject: [step-os] FW: SF Message-ID: <03642EC064085F4DBB3B40DB5D82F2A2016FC5C6@SCRA_NT1.SCRA.ORG> Rather than a true mirror, I believe the SC4 modules page originally was to house an html build of the repository to facilitate browsing. However, browsers can now read xml and xsl without requiring plug-ins. --Darla -----Original Message----- From: step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov [mailto:step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov]On Behalf Of Radack, Gerald Sent: Monday, October 18, 2004 12:26 PM To: STEP Open-Source Cc: sc4sec@tc184-sc4.org Subject: RE: [step-os] FW: SF At the direction of SC4, the SC4 Secretariat has already set up a server to mirror the modules site on SourceForge as a backup in case SourceForge went away. Given the uncertaintly over licensing, couldn't we make that the development site, and use SourceForge for releases (or not at all)? Are we really dependent on proprietary SourceForge features, or could we use the last public release of SourceForge, or other open source software to run the site? At least if we had the master copy on the SC4 site, we would know that the SC4 site is up to date. At present, the SC4 Modules Mirror page on SC4ONLINE has the following cryptic message: Repository last updated (latest tarfile received at): 2003-07-23 22:44:22 Local repository last updated (last successful HTML build) at: 2004-10-11 23:10:32 Does that mean that no source has been transferred from SourceForge to SC4ONLINE for over a year? Gerry > -----Original Message----- > From: step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov > [mailto:step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov]On Behalf Of > Stephen Waterbury > Sent: Monday, October 18, 2004 12:10 PM > To: STEP Open-Source > Subject: Re: [step-os] FW: SF > > > David Price wrote: > > Anyone know anything about this? > > That was the first I had seen it. However, I know that several > open-source projects only put their releases on SourceForge, > rather than relying on SF project management features. That > way, it is easier to move to another site (or their own) if > necessary. Twisted (http://twistedmatrix.com) is one of > them -- I use Twisted, which is open-source, and I never have > to visit SF for it because they offer it from their own site > (which is sponsored by DivMod, a project that also uses > Twisted, on which some of the developers of Twisted work). > > Cheers, > Steve > > > _______________________________________________ > step-os mailing list > step-os@step.nasa.gov > http://step.nasa.gov/mailman/listinfo/step-os > _______________________________________________ step-os mailing list step-os@step.nasa.gov http://step.nasa.gov/mailman/listinfo/step-os From david.price at eurostep.com Mon Oct 18 12:54:22 2004 From: david.price at eurostep.com (David Price) Date: Mon Oct 18 12:01:54 2004 Subject: [step-os] FW: SF In-Reply-To: <58BD7BA1E81ED54E88F2266E149D93D630529F@ctcjst-mail1.ad.ctcgsc.org> Message-ID: <000701c4b533$1e4d79d0$2101a8c0@esukpc20> SCOnline is never going to support CVS as it's not a server for software development. As far as a backup of STEPMod itself, each developer has that on his/her laptop... at least we each have a baseline set of XML at a given point in time so I'm not that worried about that part either. From Ed's comments, I'm not sure we have any problem at all... that's why I asked if anyone's seen that email/announcement or read the fine print. As for the SC4 mirror, I know nothing.... David > -----Original Message----- > From: step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov > [mailto:step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov] On Behalf Of Radack, Gerald > Sent: 18 October 2004 17:26 > To: STEP Open-Source > Cc: sc4sec@tc184-sc4.org > Subject: RE: [step-os] FW: SF > > > At the direction of SC4, the SC4 Secretariat has already set > up a server to mirror the modules site on SourceForge as a > backup in case SourceForge went away. Given the uncertaintly > over licensing, couldn't we make that the development site, > and use SourceForge for releases (or not at all)? > > Are we really dependent on proprietary SourceForge features, > or could we use the last public release of SourceForge, or > other open source software to run the site? > > At least if we had the master copy on the SC4 site, we would > know that the SC4 site is up to date. > > At present, the SC4 Modules Mirror page on SC4ONLINE has the > following cryptic message: > > Repository last updated (latest tarfile received at): > 2003-07-23 22:44:22 > > Local repository last updated (last successful HTML build) > at: 2004-10-11 23:10:32 > > Does that mean that no source has been transferred from > SourceForge to SC4ONLINE for over a year? > > Gerry > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov > > [mailto:step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov]On Behalf Of Stephen > > Waterbury > > Sent: Monday, October 18, 2004 12:10 PM > > To: STEP Open-Source > > Subject: Re: [step-os] FW: SF > > > > > > David Price wrote: > > > Anyone know anything about this? > > > > That was the first I had seen it. However, I know that several > > open-source projects only put their releases on SourceForge, rather > > than relying on SF project management features. That way, it is > > easier to move to another site (or their own) if necessary. > Twisted > > (http://twistedmatrix.com) is one of them -- I use Twisted, > which is > > open-source, and I never have to visit SF for it because > they offer it > > from their own site (which is sponsored by DivMod, a > project that also > > uses Twisted, on which some of the developers of Twisted work). > > > > Cheers, > > Steve > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > step-os mailing list > > step-os@step.nasa.gov http://step.nasa.gov/mailman/listinfo/step-os > > > > _______________________________________________ > step-os mailing list > step-os@step.nasa.gov http://step.nasa.gov/mailman/listinfo/step-os > From radack at ctc.com Mon Oct 18 13:25:00 2004 From: radack at ctc.com (Radack, Gerald) Date: Mon Oct 18 12:32:27 2004 Subject: [step-os] FW: SF Message-ID: <58BD7BA1E81ED54E88F2266E149D93D63052A0@ctcjst-mail1.ad.ctcgsc.org> Dave: > SCOnline is never going to support CVS as it's not a server for software development. As Peter Pan would say, never say "never." SC4ONLINE is a Web site intended to meet the needs of the SC4 community and its user base (right, Secretariat?). If those needs include a CVS server, why couldn't that service be provided? Do you think that running a CVS server is so difficult that the SC4 Secretariat could not do it? Do the copies on people's laptops include all the old versions of files, configuration records, etc., or just the latest version? I believe we have a requirement to be able to regenerate documentation for old baselines. Otherwise, why are we now capturing configuration records with releases of module packages? I recollect that the Secretariat was asked to set up a mirror so that if SourceForge went away, we could resume work with minimal interruption. With regard to the HTML build, how can you have an up to date HTML build if you don't have a mirror, or at least a copy of the latest version of each file? So can anybody tell me: Is the HTML build on SC4ONLINE in fact a build of the current state of the SourceForge repository, or the way it was 2003-07-23. Gerry > -----Original Message----- > From: step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov > [mailto:step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov]On Behalf Of David Price > Sent: Monday, October 18, 2004 12:54 PM > To: 'STEP Open-Source' > Cc: sc4sec@tc184-sc4.org > Subject: RE: [step-os] FW: SF > > > SCOnline is never going to support CVS as it's not a server > for software > development. As far as a backup of STEPMod itself, each > developer has that > on his/her laptop... at least we each have a baseline set of > XML at a given > point in time so I'm not that worried about that part either. > From Ed's > comments, I'm not sure we have any problem at all... that's > why I asked if > anyone's seen that email/announcement or read the fine print. > > As for the SC4 mirror, I know nothing.... > > David > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov > > [mailto:step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov] On Behalf Of > Radack, Gerald > > Sent: 18 October 2004 17:26 > > To: STEP Open-Source > > Cc: sc4sec@tc184-sc4.org > > Subject: RE: [step-os] FW: SF > > > > > > At the direction of SC4, the SC4 Secretariat has already set > > up a server to mirror the modules site on SourceForge as a > > backup in case SourceForge went away. Given the uncertaintly > > over licensing, couldn't we make that the development site, > > and use SourceForge for releases (or not at all)? > > > > Are we really dependent on proprietary SourceForge features, > > or could we use the last public release of SourceForge, or > > other open source software to run the site? > > > > At least if we had the master copy on the SC4 site, we would > > know that the SC4 site is up to date. > > > > At present, the SC4 Modules Mirror page on SC4ONLINE has the > > following cryptic message: > > > > Repository last updated (latest tarfile received at): > > 2003-07-23 22:44:22 > > > > Local repository last updated (last successful HTML build) > > at: 2004-10-11 23:10:32 > > > > Does that mean that no source has been transferred from > > SourceForge to SC4ONLINE for over a year? > > > > Gerry > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov > > > [mailto:step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov]On Behalf Of Stephen > > > Waterbury > > > Sent: Monday, October 18, 2004 12:10 PM > > > To: STEP Open-Source > > > Subject: Re: [step-os] FW: SF > > > > > > > > > David Price wrote: > > > > Anyone know anything about this? > > > > > > That was the first I had seen it. However, I know that several > > > open-source projects only put their releases on > SourceForge, rather > > > than relying on SF project management features. That way, it is > > > easier to move to another site (or their own) if necessary. > > Twisted > > > (http://twistedmatrix.com) is one of them -- I use Twisted, > > which is > > > open-source, and I never have to visit SF for it because > > they offer it > > > from their own site (which is sponsored by DivMod, a > > project that also > > > uses Twisted, on which some of the developers of Twisted work). > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Steve > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > step-os mailing list > > > step-os@step.nasa.gov http://step.nasa.gov/mailman/listinfo/step-os > > > > _______________________________________________ > step-os mailing list > step-os@step.nasa.gov http://step.nasa.gov/mailman/listinfo/step-os > _______________________________________________ step-os mailing list step-os@step.nasa.gov http://step.nasa.gov/mailman/listinfo/step-os From david.price at eurostep.com Mon Oct 18 13:41:00 2004 From: david.price at eurostep.com (David Price) Date: Mon Oct 18 12:48:34 2004 Subject: [step-os] FW: SF In-Reply-To: <58BD7BA1E81ED54E88F2266E149D93D63052A0@ctcjst-mail1.ad.ctcgsc.org> Message-ID: <000001c4b539$a2465c60$2101a8c0@esukpc20> Gerry, First, I don't think the step-os exploder is where you're really going to get answers to SC4/module/html build questions. On the technical questions, no my laptop only has the latest and greatest. Don't know where the baselines are stored, if anywhere except SF. On the server question, I imagine SC4Online doesn't do it because it would cost money and we already get that service for free elsewhere. *IF* SourceForge becomes a problem, then somebody, somewhere will have to step in. My email was not intended to give anyone any idea that we were nearing that point. I was just curious if anyone knew more details about the SF/commercial software issue. As Ed said, it seems that SF is not-a-problem at the moment. David > -----Original Message----- > From: step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov > [mailto:step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov] On Behalf Of Radack, Gerald > Sent: 18 October 2004 18:25 > To: STEP Open-Source > Cc: sc4sec@tc184-sc4.org > Subject: RE: [step-os] FW: SF > > > Dave: > > > SCOnline is never going to support CVS as it's not a server for > > software development. > > As Peter Pan would say, never say "never." > > SC4ONLINE is a Web site intended to meet the needs of the SC4 > community and its user base (right, Secretariat?). If those > needs include a CVS server, why couldn't that service be > provided? Do you think that running a CVS server is so > difficult that the SC4 Secretariat could not do it? > > Do the copies on people's laptops include all the old > versions of files, configuration records, etc., or just the > latest version? I believe we have a requirement to be able > to regenerate documentation for old baselines. Otherwise, > why are we now capturing configuration records with releases > of module packages? > > I recollect that the Secretariat was asked to set up a mirror > so that if SourceForge went away, we could resume work with > minimal interruption. > > With regard to the HTML build, how can you have an up to date > HTML build if you don't have a mirror, or at least a copy of > the latest version of each file? > > So can anybody tell me: Is the HTML build on SC4ONLINE in > fact a build of the current state of the SourceForge > repository, or the way it was 2003-07-23. > > Gerry > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov > > [mailto:step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov]On Behalf Of David Price > > Sent: Monday, October 18, 2004 12:54 PM > > To: 'STEP Open-Source' > > Cc: sc4sec@tc184-sc4.org > > Subject: RE: [step-os] FW: SF > > > > > > SCOnline is never going to support CVS as it's not a server > > for software > > development. As far as a backup of STEPMod itself, each > > developer has that > > on his/her laptop... at least we each have a baseline set of > > XML at a given > > point in time so I'm not that worried about that part either. > > From Ed's > > comments, I'm not sure we have any problem at all... that's > > why I asked if > > anyone's seen that email/announcement or read the fine print. > > > > As for the SC4 mirror, I know nothing.... > > > > David > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov > > > [mailto:step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov] On Behalf Of > > Radack, Gerald > > > Sent: 18 October 2004 17:26 > > > To: STEP Open-Source > > > Cc: sc4sec@tc184-sc4.org > > > Subject: RE: [step-os] FW: SF > > > > > > > > > At the direction of SC4, the SC4 Secretariat has already set > > > up a server to mirror the modules site on SourceForge as a > > > backup in case SourceForge went away. Given the uncertaintly > > > over licensing, couldn't we make that the development site, > > > and use SourceForge for releases (or not at all)? > > > > > > Are we really dependent on proprietary SourceForge features, > > > or could we use the last public release of SourceForge, or > > > other open source software to run the site? > > > > > > At least if we had the master copy on the SC4 site, we would > > > know that the SC4 site is up to date. > > > > > > At present, the SC4 Modules Mirror page on SC4ONLINE has the > > > following cryptic message: > > > > > > Repository last updated (latest tarfile received at): > > > 2003-07-23 22:44:22 > > > > > > Local repository last updated (last successful HTML build) > > > at: 2004-10-11 23:10:32 > > > > > > Does that mean that no source has been transferred from > > > SourceForge to SC4ONLINE for over a year? > > > > > > Gerry > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov > > > > [mailto:step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov]On Behalf Of Stephen > > > > Waterbury > > > > Sent: Monday, October 18, 2004 12:10 PM > > > > To: STEP Open-Source > > > > Subject: Re: [step-os] FW: SF > > > > > > > > > > > > David Price wrote: > > > > > Anyone know anything about this? > > > > > > > > That was the first I had seen it. However, I know that several > > > > open-source projects only put their releases on > > SourceForge, rather > > > > than relying on SF project management features. That way, it is > > > > easier to move to another site (or their own) if necessary. > > > Twisted > > > > (http://twistedmatrix.com) is one of them -- I use Twisted, > > > which is > > > > open-source, and I never have to visit SF for it because > > > they offer it > > > > from their own site (which is sponsored by DivMod, a > > > project that also > > > > uses Twisted, on which some of the developers of Twisted work). > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > Steve > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > step-os mailing list > > > > step-os@step.nasa.gov > http://step.nasa.gov/mailman/listinfo/step-os > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > step-os mailing list > > step-os@step.nasa.gov http://step.nasa.gov/mailman/listinfo/step-os > > > > _______________________________________________ > step-os mailing list > step-os@step.nasa.gov http://step.nasa.gov/mailman/listinfo/step-os > > _______________________________________________ > step-os mailing list > step-os@step.nasa.gov http://step.nasa.gov/mailman/listinfo/step-os > From lubell at nist.gov Mon Oct 18 16:22:27 2004 From: lubell at nist.gov (Josh Lubell) Date: Mon Oct 18 15:29:49 2004 Subject: [step-os] SC4 Secretariat and SourceForge Message-ID: <41742603.5050307@nist.gov> Various folks have been discussing bath an article raising concerns about the openness of SourceForge as well as whether the SC4 Secretariat needs to take any action to safeguard the module repository. The two principal SourceForge services we have been using are CVS repository hosting and email exploder hosting. Since the stepmod-devel exploder will soon be migrated to the Secretariat, the only remaining concern is the CVS repository. CVS is an open source tool, and there are lots of other CVS hosting venues besides SourceForge. It would be easy to switch to one of them at some point in the future if we had to. However, in order to do so we would have to copy our entire repository as it exists on the SourceForge CVS server to the new host. A repository snapshot on a developer's hard drive lacks the version information and change history recorded in the repository on the CVS server. SourceForge creates nightly "tarballs" (.tar.bz archives) for each project's CVS repository. Although we don't do this, it would be smart to download the stepmod tarball on a regular basis and back it up so that, in the event we have to make a sudden switch from SourceForge to another host, little work will be lost. If the SC4 Secretariat were to assume the responsibility for mainting this backup, we would be protected from a sudden SourceForge disruption. And maintaining the backup would be an easy task for the Secretariat to take on. For more information on backing up SourceForge projects, read http://sourceforge.net/project/admin/backup.php?group_id=27487. Josh -- Joshua Lubell National Institute of Standards and Technology Manufacturing Systems Integration Division 100 Bureau Drive, Stop 8263 Gaithersburg MD 20899-8263, USA Phone: 1-301-975-3563, Fax: 1-301-975-4694 Email: lubell@nist.gov From brazyj at dcnicn.com Mon Oct 18 16:22:37 2004 From: brazyj at dcnicn.com (brazyj) Date: Mon Oct 18 15:38:01 2004 Subject: [step-os] FW: SourceForge Message-ID: <36F19C69F0F7BC4981C55DD1E472AE1F01DE20@earth2.dcnicn.com> Dave and Gerry, I agree with Gerry and Peter Pan about the "never say never" business and I agree with Dave about a normal business case. But then, SC4ONLINE does not follow a normal business case. Let me provide a little clarification about SC4ONLINE resources. While the SC4ONLINE web-server is a Bill Gates (Win2K server OS - hosted on a Dell 26xx rack mount server), the STEP Modules Repository Mirror (part of SC4ONLINE - http://www.tc184-sc4.org/private/STEP_Modules_Mirror/ ) is hosted on a Red Hat Enterprise Linux ES Server (also a Dell 26xx Rack Mount Server) - and yes we have installed CVS, but it is currently dormant (i.e. no active users). I have heard that Subversion (http://subversion.tigris.org/) is an open-source version control system that is a compelling replacement for CVS in the open source community (according to their web page). If you think, you would like to try out Subversion, please let me know. Kind Regards, Joe Joseph P Brazy Sr Systems Engineer/SC4ONLINE Administrator LAMP/IDE Project -----Original Message----- From: David Price [mailto:david.price@eurostep.com] Sent: Monday, October 18, 2004 1:41 PM To: 'STEP Open-Source' Cc: SC4Sec Subject: RE: [step-os] FW: SF Gerry, First, I don't think the step-os exploder is where you're really going to get answers to SC4/module/html build questions. On the technical questions, no my laptop only has the latest and greatest. Don't know where the baselines are stored, if anywhere except SF. On the server question, I imagine SC4Online doesn't do it because it would cost money and we already get that service for free elsewhere. *IF* SourceForge becomes a problem, then somebody, somewhere will have to step in. My email was not intended to give anyone any idea that we were nearing that point. I was just curious if anyone knew more details about the SF/commercial software issue. As Ed said, it seems that SF is not-a-problem at the moment. David > -----Original Message----- > From: step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov > [mailto:step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov] On Behalf Of Radack, Gerald > Sent: 18 October 2004 18:25 > To: STEP Open-Source > Cc: sc4sec@tc184-sc4.org > Subject: RE: [step-os] FW: SF > > > Dave: > > > SCOnline is never going to support CVS as it's not a server for > > software development. > > As Peter Pan would say, never say "never." > > SC4ONLINE is a Web site intended to meet the needs of the SC4 > community and its user base (right, Secretariat?). If those > needs include a CVS server, why couldn't that service be > provided? Do you think that running a CVS server is so > difficult that the SC4 Secretariat could not do it? > > Do the copies on people's laptops include all the old > versions of files, configuration records, etc., or just the > latest version? I believe we have a requirement to be able > to regenerate documentation for old baselines. Otherwise, > why are we now capturing configuration records with releases > of module packages? > > I recollect that the Secretariat was asked to set up a mirror > so that if SourceForge went away, we could resume work with > minimal interruption. > > With regard to the HTML build, how can you have an up to date > HTML build if you don't have a mirror, or at least a copy of > the latest version of each file? > > So can anybody tell me: Is the HTML build on SC4ONLINE in > fact a build of the current state of the SourceForge > repository, or the way it was 2003-07-23. > > Gerry > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov > > [mailto:step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov]On Behalf Of David Price > > Sent: Monday, October 18, 2004 12:54 PM > > To: 'STEP Open-Source' > > Cc: sc4sec@tc184-sc4.org > > Subject: RE: [step-os] FW: SF > > > > > > SCOnline is never going to support CVS as it's not a server > > for software > > development. As far as a backup of STEPMod itself, each > > developer has that > > on his/her laptop... at least we each have a baseline set of > > XML at a given > > point in time so I'm not that worried about that part either. > > From Ed's > > comments, I'm not sure we have any problem at all... that's > > why I asked if > > anyone's seen that email/announcement or read the fine print. > > > > As for the SC4 mirror, I know nothing.... > > > > David > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov > > > [mailto:step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov] On Behalf Of > > Radack, Gerald > > > Sent: 18 October 2004 17:26 > > > To: STEP Open-Source > > > Cc: sc4sec@tc184-sc4.org > > > Subject: RE: [step-os] FW: SF > > > > > > > > > At the direction of SC4, the SC4 Secretariat has already set > > > up a server to mirror the modules site on SourceForge as a > > > backup in case SourceForge went away. Given the uncertaintly > > > over licensing, couldn't we make that the development site, > > > and use SourceForge for releases (or not at all)? > > > > > > Are we really dependent on proprietary SourceForge features, > > > or could we use the last public release of SourceForge, or > > > other open source software to run the site? > > > > > > At least if we had the master copy on the SC4 site, we would > > > know that the SC4 site is up to date. > > > > > > At present, the SC4 Modules Mirror page on SC4ONLINE has the > > > following cryptic message: > > > > > > Repository last updated (latest tarfile received at): > > > 2003-07-23 22:44:22 > > > > > > Local repository last updated (last successful HTML build) > > > at: 2004-10-11 23:10:32 > > > > > > Does that mean that no source has been transferred from > > > SourceForge to SC4ONLINE for over a year? > > > > > > Gerry > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov > > > > [mailto:step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov]On Behalf Of Stephen > > > > Waterbury > > > > Sent: Monday, October 18, 2004 12:10 PM > > > > To: STEP Open-Source > > > > Subject: Re: [step-os] FW: SF > > > > > > > > > > > > David Price wrote: > > > > > Anyone know anything about this? > > > > > > > > That was the first I had seen it. However, I know that several > > > > open-source projects only put their releases on > > SourceForge, rather > > > > than relying on SF project management features. That way, it is > > > > easier to move to another site (or their own) if necessary. > > > Twisted > > > > (http://twistedmatrix.com) is one of them -- I use Twisted, > > > which is > > > > open-source, and I never have to visit SF for it because > > > they offer it > > > > from their own site (which is sponsored by DivMod, a > > > project that also > > > > uses Twisted, on which some of the developers of Twisted work). > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > Steve > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > step-os mailing list > > > > step-os@step.nasa.gov > http://step.nasa.gov/mailman/listinfo/step-os > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > step-os mailing list > > step-os@step.nasa.gov http://step.nasa.gov/mailman/listinfo/step-os > > > > _______________________________________________ > step-os mailing list > step-os@step.nasa.gov http://step.nasa.gov/mailman/listinfo/step-os > > _______________________________________________ > step-os mailing list > step-os@step.nasa.gov http://step.nasa.gov/mailman/listinfo/step-os > From golux at comcast.net Mon Oct 18 16:39:04 2004 From: golux at comcast.net (Stephen Waterbury) Date: Mon Oct 18 15:47:31 2004 Subject: [step-os] SC4 Secretariat and SourceForge In-Reply-To: <41742603.5050307@nist.gov> References: <41742603.5050307@nist.gov> Message-ID: <417429E8.8000102@comcast.net> Josh Lubell wrote: I second everything in Josh's message, and *especially*: > SourceForge creates nightly "tarballs" (.tar.bz archives) for each > project's CVS repository. Although we don't do this, it would be smart > to download the stepmod tarball on a regular basis and back it up so > that, in the event we have to make a sudden switch from SourceForge to > another host, little work will be lost. YES!! Not only to enable switching, but also to have another backup. I think SourceForge is pretty trustworthy in this respect, but there is a huge amount of work here and multiple backups are *always* a good idea. > If the SC4 Secretariat were to assume the responsibility for mainting > this backup, we would be protected from a sudden SourceForge disruption. > And maintaining the backup would be an easy task for the Secretariat to > take on. I would additionally suggest that any organization that has a large interest in the repository also set up a regular backup -- this would include PDES, Inc. and PLCS, at least. Steve From rob.bodington at eurostep.com Tue Oct 19 02:11:06 2004 From: rob.bodington at eurostep.com (Rob Bodington) Date: Tue Oct 19 01:18:24 2004 Subject: [step-os] FW: SF In-Reply-To: <000001c4b539$a2465c60$2101a8c0@esukpc20> Message-ID: <000c01c4b5a2$6b59c070$6401a8c0@esukpc30> Hi SC4ONLINE "should" be doing nightly CVS update i.e. downloading the latest versions of the files, building the HTML and making that available on SC4ONLINE, and downloading a tar file of the stepmod CVS repository so that we could install a new CVS repository if Sourceforge goes away. Regards Rob ------------------------------------------- Rob Bodington Eurostep Limited Web Page: http://www.eurostep.com http://www.share-a-space.com Email: Rob.Bodington@eurostep.com Phone: +44 (0)1454 270030 Mobile: +44 (0)7796 176 401 -----Original Message----- From: step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov [mailto:step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov] On Behalf Of David Price Sent: 18 October 2004 18:41 To: 'STEP Open-Source' Cc: sc4sec@tc184-sc4.org Subject: RE: [step-os] FW: SF Gerry, First, I don't think the step-os exploder is where you're really going to get answers to SC4/module/html build questions. On the technical questions, no my laptop only has the latest and greatest. Don't know where the baselines are stored, if anywhere except SF. On the server question, I imagine SC4Online doesn't do it because it would cost money and we already get that service for free elsewhere. *IF* SourceForge becomes a problem, then somebody, somewhere will have to step in. My email was not intended to give anyone any idea that we were nearing that point. I was just curious if anyone knew more details about the SF/commercial software issue. As Ed said, it seems that SF is not-a-problem at the moment. David > -----Original Message----- > From: step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov > [mailto:step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov] On Behalf Of Radack, Gerald > Sent: 18 October 2004 18:25 > To: STEP Open-Source > Cc: sc4sec@tc184-sc4.org > Subject: RE: [step-os] FW: SF > > > Dave: > > > SCOnline is never going to support CVS as it's not a server for > > software development. > > As Peter Pan would say, never say "never." > > SC4ONLINE is a Web site intended to meet the needs of the SC4 > community and its user base (right, Secretariat?). If those > needs include a CVS server, why couldn't that service be > provided? Do you think that running a CVS server is so > difficult that the SC4 Secretariat could not do it? > > Do the copies on people's laptops include all the old > versions of files, configuration records, etc., or just the > latest version? I believe we have a requirement to be able > to regenerate documentation for old baselines. Otherwise, > why are we now capturing configuration records with releases > of module packages? > > I recollect that the Secretariat was asked to set up a mirror > so that if SourceForge went away, we could resume work with > minimal interruption. > > With regard to the HTML build, how can you have an up to date > HTML build if you don't have a mirror, or at least a copy of > the latest version of each file? > > So can anybody tell me: Is the HTML build on SC4ONLINE in > fact a build of the current state of the SourceForge > repository, or the way it was 2003-07-23. > > Gerry > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov > > [mailto:step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov]On Behalf Of David Price > > Sent: Monday, October 18, 2004 12:54 PM > > To: 'STEP Open-Source' > > Cc: sc4sec@tc184-sc4.org > > Subject: RE: [step-os] FW: SF > > > > > > SCOnline is never going to support CVS as it's not a server > > for software > > development. As far as a backup of STEPMod itself, each > > developer has that > > on his/her laptop... at least we each have a baseline set of > > XML at a given > > point in time so I'm not that worried about that part either. > > From Ed's > > comments, I'm not sure we have any problem at all... that's > > why I asked if > > anyone's seen that email/announcement or read the fine print. > > > > As for the SC4 mirror, I know nothing.... > > > > David > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov > > > [mailto:step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov] On Behalf Of > > Radack, Gerald > > > Sent: 18 October 2004 17:26 > > > To: STEP Open-Source > > > Cc: sc4sec@tc184-sc4.org > > > Subject: RE: [step-os] FW: SF > > > > > > > > > At the direction of SC4, the SC4 Secretariat has already set > > > up a server to mirror the modules site on SourceForge as a > > > backup in case SourceForge went away. Given the uncertaintly > > > over licensing, couldn't we make that the development site, > > > and use SourceForge for releases (or not at all)? > > > > > > Are we really dependent on proprietary SourceForge features, > > > or could we use the last public release of SourceForge, or > > > other open source software to run the site? > > > > > > At least if we had the master copy on the SC4 site, we would > > > know that the SC4 site is up to date. > > > > > > At present, the SC4 Modules Mirror page on SC4ONLINE has the > > > following cryptic message: > > > > > > Repository last updated (latest tarfile received at): > > > 2003-07-23 22:44:22 > > > > > > Local repository last updated (last successful HTML build) > > > at: 2004-10-11 23:10:32 > > > > > > Does that mean that no source has been transferred from > > > SourceForge to SC4ONLINE for over a year? > > > > > > Gerry > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov > > > > [mailto:step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov]On Behalf Of Stephen > > > > Waterbury > > > > Sent: Monday, October 18, 2004 12:10 PM > > > > To: STEP Open-Source > > > > Subject: Re: [step-os] FW: SF > > > > > > > > > > > > David Price wrote: > > > > > Anyone know anything about this? > > > > > > > > That was the first I had seen it. However, I know that several > > > > open-source projects only put their releases on > > SourceForge, rather > > > > than relying on SF project management features. That way, it is > > > > easier to move to another site (or their own) if necessary. > > > Twisted > > > > (http://twistedmatrix.com) is one of them -- I use Twisted, > > > which is > > > > open-source, and I never have to visit SF for it because > > > they offer it > > > > from their own site (which is sponsored by DivMod, a > > > project that also > > > > uses Twisted, on which some of the developers of Twisted work). > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > Steve > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > step-os mailing list > > > > step-os@step.nasa.gov > http://step.nasa.gov/mailman/listinfo/step-os > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > step-os mailing list > > step-os@step.nasa.gov http://step.nasa.gov/mailman/listinfo/step-os > > > > _______________________________________________ > step-os mailing list > step-os@step.nasa.gov http://step.nasa.gov/mailman/listinfo/step-os > > _______________________________________________ > step-os mailing list > step-os@step.nasa.gov http://step.nasa.gov/mailman/listinfo/step-os > _______________________________________________ step-os mailing list step-os@step.nasa.gov http://step.nasa.gov/mailman/listinfo/step-os From rob.bodington at eurostep.com Tue Oct 19 02:16:12 2004 From: rob.bodington at eurostep.com (Rob Bodington) Date: Tue Oct 19 01:23:30 2004 Subject: [step-os] SC4 Secretariat and SourceForge In-Reply-To: <41742603.5050307@nist.gov> Message-ID: <000d01c4b5a3$2247e410$6401a8c0@esukpc30> Hi I believe that the secretariat downloads the tar ball that Josh is referring to. Is that correct Joe? Regards Rob ------------------------------------------- Rob Bodington Eurostep Limited Web Page: http://www.eurostep.com http://www.share-a-space.com Email: Rob.Bodington@eurostep.com Phone: +44 (0)1454 270030 Mobile: +44 (0)7796 176 401 -----Original Message----- From: step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov [mailto:step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov] On Behalf Of Josh Lubell Sent: 18 October 2004 21:22 To: step-os@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov Subject: [step-os] SC4 Secretariat and SourceForge Various folks have been discussing bath an article raising concerns about the openness of SourceForge as well as whether the SC4 Secretariat needs to take any action to safeguard the module repository. The two principal SourceForge services we have been using are CVS repository hosting and email exploder hosting. Since the stepmod-devel exploder will soon be migrated to the Secretariat, the only remaining concern is the CVS repository. CVS is an open source tool, and there are lots of other CVS hosting venues besides SourceForge. It would be easy to switch to one of them at some point in the future if we had to. However, in order to do so we would have to copy our entire repository as it exists on the SourceForge CVS server to the new host. A repository snapshot on a developer's hard drive lacks the version information and change history recorded in the repository on the CVS server. SourceForge creates nightly "tarballs" (.tar.bz archives) for each project's CVS repository. Although we don't do this, it would be smart to download the stepmod tarball on a regular basis and back it up so that, in the event we have to make a sudden switch from SourceForge to another host, little work will be lost. If the SC4 Secretariat were to assume the responsibility for mainting this backup, we would be protected from a sudden SourceForge disruption. And maintaining the backup would be an easy task for the Secretariat to take on. For more information on backing up SourceForge projects, read http://sourceforge.net/project/admin/backup.php?group_id=27487. Josh -- Joshua Lubell National Institute of Standards and Technology Manufacturing Systems Integration Division 100 Bureau Drive, Stop 8263 Gaithersburg MD 20899-8263, USA Phone: 1-301-975-3563, Fax: 1-301-975-4694 Email: lubell@nist.gov _______________________________________________ step-os mailing list step-os@step.nasa.gov http://step.nasa.gov/mailman/listinfo/step-os From howard.mason at baesystems.com Tue Oct 19 07:15:48 2004 From: howard.mason at baesystems.com (Mason, Howard (UK)) Date: Tue Oct 19 10:41:27 2004 Subject: [step-os] FW: SF Message-ID: <6A084F60D1BB8242B9FAC267863EB4FC012E975D@glkms0007.greenlnk.net> We had a long debate about this at an earlier SC4 meeting, and I would like to summarise in order to clarify some of the incomplete statements made in the thread. To manage the risk of Sourceforge disappearing or charging money, a CVS environment has been established on SC4ONLINE. As Joe says, it is not used at present, but should be available for immediate use. The Secretariat should meanwhile be downloading the Sourceforge repository on a daily basis so that we have a backup, as well as running the HTML extract to SC4ONLINE. Could Joe please confirm this and explain the different date messages indicated by Gerry? Thanks Howard Mason -----Original Message----- From: Rob Bodington [mailto:rob.bodington@eurostep.com] Sent: 19 October 2004 07:11 To: 'STEP Open-Source' Cc: sc4sec@tc184-sc4.org Subject: RE: [step-os] FW: SF *** WARNING *** This mail has originated outside your organization, either from an external partner or the Global Internet. Keep this in mind if you answer this message. Hi SC4ONLINE "should" be doing nightly CVS update i.e. downloading the latest versions of the files, building the HTML and making that available on SC4ONLINE, and downloading a tar file of the stepmod CVS repository so that we could install a new CVS repository if Sourceforge goes away. Regards Rob ------------------------------------------- Rob Bodington Eurostep Limited Web Page: http://www.eurostep.com http://www.share-a-space.com Email: Rob.Bodington@eurostep.com Phone: +44 (0)1454 270030 Mobile: +44 (0)7796 176 401 -----Original Message----- From: step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov [mailto:step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov] On Behalf Of David Price Sent: 18 October 2004 18:41 To: 'STEP Open-Source' Cc: sc4sec@tc184-sc4.org Subject: RE: [step-os] FW: SF Gerry, First, I don't think the step-os exploder is where you're really going to get answers to SC4/module/html build questions. On the technical questions, no my laptop only has the latest and greatest. Don't know where the baselines are stored, if anywhere except SF. On the server question, I imagine SC4Online doesn't do it because it would cost money and we already get that service for free elsewhere. *IF* SourceForge becomes a problem, then somebody, somewhere will have to step in. My email was not intended to give anyone any idea that we were nearing that point. I was just curious if anyone knew more details about the SF/commercial software issue. As Ed said, it seems that SF is not-a-problem at the moment. David > -----Original Message----- > From: step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov > [mailto:step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov] On Behalf Of Radack, Gerald > Sent: 18 October 2004 18:25 > To: STEP Open-Source > Cc: sc4sec@tc184-sc4.org > Subject: RE: [step-os] FW: SF > > > Dave: > > > SCOnline is never going to support CVS as it's not a server for > > software development. > > As Peter Pan would say, never say "never." > > SC4ONLINE is a Web site intended to meet the needs of the SC4 > community and its user base (right, Secretariat?). If those > needs include a CVS server, why couldn't that service be > provided? Do you think that running a CVS server is so > difficult that the SC4 Secretariat could not do it? > > Do the copies on people's laptops include all the old > versions of files, configuration records, etc., or just the > latest version? I believe we have a requirement to be able > to regenerate documentation for old baselines. Otherwise, > why are we now capturing configuration records with releases > of module packages? > > I recollect that the Secretariat was asked to set up a mirror > so that if SourceForge went away, we could resume work with > minimal interruption. > > With regard to the HTML build, how can you have an up to date > HTML build if you don't have a mirror, or at least a copy of > the latest version of each file? > > So can anybody tell me: Is the HTML build on SC4ONLINE in > fact a build of the current state of the SourceForge > repository, or the way it was 2003-07-23. > > Gerry > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov > > [mailto:step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov]On Behalf Of David Price > > Sent: Monday, October 18, 2004 12:54 PM > > To: 'STEP Open-Source' > > Cc: sc4sec@tc184-sc4.org > > Subject: RE: [step-os] FW: SF > > > > > > SCOnline is never going to support CVS as it's not a server > > for software > > development. As far as a backup of STEPMod itself, each > > developer has that > > on his/her laptop... at least we each have a baseline set of > > XML at a given > > point in time so I'm not that worried about that part either. > > From Ed's > > comments, I'm not sure we have any problem at all... that's > > why I asked if > > anyone's seen that email/announcement or read the fine print. > > > > As for the SC4 mirror, I know nothing.... > > > > David > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov > > > [mailto:step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov] On Behalf Of > > Radack, Gerald > > > Sent: 18 October 2004 17:26 > > > To: STEP Open-Source > > > Cc: sc4sec@tc184-sc4.org > > > Subject: RE: [step-os] FW: SF > > > > > > > > > At the direction of SC4, the SC4 Secretariat has already set > > > up a server to mirror the modules site on SourceForge as a > > > backup in case SourceForge went away. Given the uncertaintly > > > over licensing, couldn't we make that the development site, > > > and use SourceForge for releases (or not at all)? > > > > > > Are we really dependent on proprietary SourceForge features, > > > or could we use the last public release of SourceForge, or > > > other open source software to run the site? > > > > > > At least if we had the master copy on the SC4 site, we would > > > know that the SC4 site is up to date. > > > > > > At present, the SC4 Modules Mirror page on SC4ONLINE has the > > > following cryptic message: > > > > > > Repository last updated (latest tarfile received at): > > > 2003-07-23 22:44:22 > > > > > > Local repository last updated (last successful HTML build) > > > at: 2004-10-11 23:10:32 > > > > > > Does that mean that no source has been transferred from > > > SourceForge to SC4ONLINE for over a year? > > > > > > Gerry > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov > > > > [mailto:step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov]On Behalf Of Stephen > > > > Waterbury > > > > Sent: Monday, October 18, 2004 12:10 PM > > > > To: STEP Open-Source > > > > Subject: Re: [step-os] FW: SF > > > > > > > > > > > > David Price wrote: > > > > > Anyone know anything about this? > > > > > > > > That was the first I had seen it. However, I know that several > > > > open-source projects only put their releases on > > SourceForge, rather > > > > than relying on SF project management features. That way, it is > > > > easier to move to another site (or their own) if necessary. > > > Twisted > > > > (http://twistedmatrix.com) is one of them -- I use Twisted, > > > which is > > > > open-source, and I never have to visit SF for it because > > > they offer it > > > > from their own site (which is sponsored by DivMod, a > > > project that also > > > > uses Twisted, on which some of the developers of Twisted work). > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > Steve > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > step-os mailing list > > > > step-os@step.nasa.gov > http://step.nasa.gov/mailman/listinfo/step-os > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > step-os mailing list > > step-os@step.nasa.gov http://step.nasa.gov/mailman/listinfo/step-os > > > > _______________________________________________ > step-os mailing list > step-os@step.nasa.gov http://step.nasa.gov/mailman/listinfo/step-os > > _______________________________________________ > step-os mailing list > step-os@step.nasa.gov http://step.nasa.gov/mailman/listinfo/step-os > _______________________________________________ step-os mailing list step-os@step.nasa.gov http://step.nasa.gov/mailman/listinfo/step-os ******************************************************************** This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or distribute its contents to any other person. ******************************************************************** From brazyj at dcnicn.com Tue Oct 19 11:52:32 2004 From: brazyj at dcnicn.com (brazyj) Date: Tue Oct 19 11:13:24 2004 Subject: [step-os] SC4 Secretariat and SourceForge Message-ID: <36F19C69F0F7BC4981C55DD1E472AE1F0244C0@earth2.dcnicn.com> Hi Rob and All, Yes, I think we need to check the download script as it is apparently reporting the wrong download date for the tarfile. Date of latest tarball (zip) file is 2004-10-11? (this is the date displayed when you hover over the linked zip file at: http://www.tc184-sc4.org/private/STEP_Modules_Mirror/ Kind Regards, Joe Joseph P Brazy Sr Systems Engineer/SC4ONLINE Administrator LAMP/IDE Project -----Original Message----- From: Rob Bodington [mailto:rob.bodington@eurostep.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2004 2:16 AM To: 'STEP Open-Source' Cc: SC4Sec Subject: RE: [step-os] SC4 Secretariat and SourceForge Hi I believe that the secretariat downloads the tar ball that Josh is referring to. Is that correct Joe? Regards Rob ------------------------------------------- Rob Bodington Eurostep Limited Web Page: http://www.eurostep.com http://www.share-a-space.com Email: Rob.Bodington@eurostep.com Phone: +44 (0)1454 270030 Mobile: +44 (0)7796 176 401 -----Original Message----- From: step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov [mailto:step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov] On Behalf Of Josh Lubell Sent: 18 October 2004 21:22 To: step-os@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov Subject: [step-os] SC4 Secretariat and SourceForge Various folks have been discussing bath an article raising concerns about the openness of SourceForge as well as whether the SC4 Secretariat needs to take any action to safeguard the module repository. The two principal SourceForge services we have been using are CVS repository hosting and email exploder hosting. Since the stepmod-devel exploder will soon be migrated to the Secretariat, the only remaining concern is the CVS repository. CVS is an open source tool, and there are lots of other CVS hosting venues besides SourceForge. It would be easy to switch to one of them at some point in the future if we had to. However, in order to do so we would have to copy our entire repository as it exists on the SourceForge CVS server to the new host. A repository snapshot on a developer's hard drive lacks the version information and change history recorded in the repository on the CVS server. SourceForge creates nightly "tarballs" (.tar.bz archives) for each project's CVS repository. Although we don't do this, it would be smart to download the stepmod tarball on a regular basis and back it up so that, in the event we have to make a sudden switch from SourceForge to another host, little work will be lost. If the SC4 Secretariat were to assume the responsibility for mainting this backup, we would be protected from a sudden SourceForge disruption. And maintaining the backup would be an easy task for the Secretariat to take on. For more information on backing up SourceForge projects, read http://sourceforge.net/project/admin/backup.php?group_id=27487. Josh -- Joshua Lubell National Institute of Standards and Technology Manufacturing Systems Integration Division 100 Bureau Drive, Stop 8263 Gaithersburg MD 20899-8263, USA Phone: 1-301-975-3563, Fax: 1-301-975-4694 Email: lubell@nist.gov _______________________________________________ step-os mailing list step-os@step.nasa.gov http://step.nasa.gov/mailman/listinfo/step-os From radack at ctc.com Tue Oct 19 12:50:33 2004 From: radack at ctc.com (Radack, Gerald) Date: Tue Oct 19 11:57:51 2004 Subject: [step-os] SC4 Secretariat and SourceForge Message-ID: <58BD7BA1E81ED54E88F2266E149D93D60B3710@ctcjst-mail1.ad.ctcgsc.org> Joe: If you are referring to the file http://neptune.dcnicn.com/stepmod-html-20041011.zip which is linked from the hyperlink "Module Repository (HTML) Zipped (65MB)", this appears to be a collection of the generated HTML, not the tarball from SourceForge, which should contain XML. Could you add a link to the actual tarball from SourceForge so that the WG3 and WG12 quality coordinators (I wish) and/or conveners can verify that the process is taking place? Also, according to its name, the HTML zip file is still a week old, whereas the process of downloading the tarball and generating the HTML is supposed to happen on a daily basis. Gerry > -----Original Message----- > From: step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov > [mailto:step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov]On Behalf Of brazyj > Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2004 11:53 AM > To: Rob Bodington; STEP Open-Source > Cc: SC4Sec > Subject: RE: [step-os] SC4 Secretariat and SourceForge > > > Hi Rob and All, > Yes, I think we need to check the download script as it is > apparently > reporting the wrong download date for the tarfile. Date of latest > tarball (zip) file is 2004-10-11? (this is the date displayed when you > hover over the linked zip file at: > http://www.tc184-sc4.org/private/STEP_Modules_Mirror/ > > Kind Regards, > Joe > > > Joseph P Brazy > Sr Systems Engineer/SC4ONLINE Administrator > LAMP/IDE Project > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rob Bodington [mailto:rob.bodington@eurostep.com] > Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2004 2:16 AM > To: 'STEP Open-Source' > Cc: SC4Sec > Subject: RE: [step-os] SC4 Secretariat and SourceForge > > Hi > I believe that the secretariat downloads the tar ball that Josh is > referring to. > > Is that correct Joe? > > Regards > Rob > > ------------------------------------------- > Rob Bodington > Eurostep Limited > Web Page: http://www.eurostep.com http://www.share-a-space.com > Email: Rob.Bodington@eurostep.com > Phone: +44 (0)1454 270030 > Mobile: +44 (0)7796 176 401 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov > [mailto:step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov] On Behalf Of Josh Lubell > Sent: 18 October 2004 21:22 > To: step-os@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov > Subject: [step-os] SC4 Secretariat and SourceForge > > Various folks have been discussing bath an article raising concerns > about the openness of SourceForge as well as whether the SC4 > Secretariat > > needs to take any action to safeguard the module repository. > > The two principal SourceForge services we have been using are CVS > repository hosting and email exploder hosting. Since the > stepmod-devel > exploder will soon be migrated to the Secretariat, the only remaining > concern is the CVS repository. > > CVS is an open source tool, and there are lots of other CVS hosting > venues besides SourceForge. It would be easy to switch to one > of them at > > some point in the future if we had to. However, in order to do so we > would have to copy our entire repository as it exists on the > SourceForge > > CVS server to the new host. A repository snapshot on a > developer's hard > drive lacks the version information and change history > recorded in the > repository on the CVS server. > > SourceForge creates nightly "tarballs" (.tar.bz archives) for each > project's CVS repository. Although we don't do this, it would > be smart > to download the stepmod tarball on a regular basis and back it up so > that, in the event we have to make a sudden switch from > SourceForge to > another host, little work will be lost. > > If the SC4 Secretariat were to assume the responsibility for mainting > this backup, we would be protected from a sudden SourceForge > disruption. > > And maintaining the backup would be an easy task for the > Secretariat to > take on. > > For more information on backing up SourceForge projects, read > http://sourceforge.net/project/admin/backup.php?group_id=27487. > > Josh > > -- > Joshua Lubell > National Institute of Standards and Technology > Manufacturing Systems Integration Division > 100 Bureau Drive, Stop 8263 > Gaithersburg MD 20899-8263, USA > Phone: 1-301-975-3563, Fax: 1-301-975-4694 > Email: lubell@nist.gov > > _______________________________________________ > step-os mailing list > step-os@step.nasa.gov > http://step.nasa.gov/mailman/listinfo/step-os > > > _______________________________________________ > step-os mailing list > step-os@step.nasa.gov > http://step.nasa.gov/mailman/listinfo/step-os > From lubell at nist.gov Tue Oct 19 12:51:57 2004 From: lubell at nist.gov (Josh Lubell) Date: Tue Oct 19 11:59:15 2004 Subject: [step-os] SC4 Secretariat and SourceForge In-Reply-To: <36F19C69F0F7BC4981C55DD1E472AE1F0244C0@earth2.dcnicn.com> References: <36F19C69F0F7BC4981C55DD1E472AE1F0244C0@earth2.dcnicn.com> Message-ID: <1098204717.4175462ddd1f3@webmail.nist.gov> Joe, The sc4online modules repository mirror does not appear to have the CVS repository tarball. It does have a zip file containing a recent HTML build of modules repository, but that is a completely different animal. The CVS repository tarball is a .tar.bz2 file containing the contents of a project's CVS repository. It is generated by SourceForge nightly and is made available for download. Josh Quoting brazyj : > Hi Rob and All, > Yes, I think we need to check the download script as it is apparently > reporting the wrong download date for the tarfile. Date of latest > tarball (zip) file is 2004-10-11? (this is the date displayed when you > hover over the linked zip file at: > http://www.tc184-sc4.org/private/STEP_Modules_Mirror/ > > Kind Regards, > Joe > > > Joseph P Brazy > Sr Systems Engineer/SC4ONLINE Administrator > LAMP/IDE Project > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rob Bodington [mailto:rob.bodington@eurostep.com] > Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2004 2:16 AM > To: 'STEP Open-Source' > Cc: SC4Sec > Subject: RE: [step-os] SC4 Secretariat and SourceForge > > Hi > I believe that the secretariat downloads the tar ball that Josh is > referring to. > > Is that correct Joe? > > Regards > Rob > > ------------------------------------------- > Rob Bodington > Eurostep Limited > Web Page: http://www.eurostep.com http://www.share-a-space.com > Email: Rob.Bodington@eurostep.com > Phone: +44 (0)1454 270030 > Mobile: +44 (0)7796 176 401 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov > [mailto:step-os-bounces@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov] On Behalf Of Josh Lubell > Sent: 18 October 2004 21:22 > To: step-os@ned.gsfc.nasa.gov > Subject: [step-os] SC4 Secretariat and SourceForge > > Various folks have been discussing bath an article raising concerns > about the openness of SourceForge as well as whether the SC4 Secretariat > > needs to take any action to safeguard the module repository. > > The two principal SourceForge services we have been using are CVS > repository hosting and email exploder hosting. Since the stepmod-devel > exploder will soon be migrated to the Secretariat, the only remaining > concern is the CVS repository. > > CVS is an open source tool, and there are lots of other CVS hosting > venues besides SourceForge. It would be easy to switch to one of them at > > some point in the future if we had to. However, in order to do so we > would have to copy our entire repository as it exists on the SourceForge > > CVS server to the new host. A repository snapshot on a developer's hard > drive lacks the version information and change history recorded in the > repository on the CVS server. > > SourceForge creates nightly "tarballs" (.tar.bz archives) for each > project's CVS repository. Although we don't do this, it would be smart > to download the stepmod tarball on a regular basis and back it up so > that, in the event we have to make a sudden switch from SourceForge to > another host, little work will be lost. > > If the SC4 Secretariat were to assume the responsibility for mainting > this backup, we would be protected from a sudden SourceForge disruption. > > And maintaining the backup would be an easy task for the Secretariat to > take on. > > For more information on backing up SourceForge projects, read > http://sourceforge.net/project/admin/backup.php?group_id=27487. > > Josh > > -- > Joshua Lubell > National Institute of Standards and Technology > Manufacturing Systems Integration Division > 100 Bureau Drive, Stop 8263 > Gaithersburg MD 20899-8263, USA > Phone: 1-301-975-3563, Fax: 1-301-975-4694 > Email: lubell@nist.gov > > _______________________________________________ > step-os mailing list > step-os@step.nasa.gov > http://step.nasa.gov/mailman/listinfo/step-os > > > _______________________________________________ > step-os mailing list > step-os@step.nasa.gov > http://step.nasa.gov/mailman/listinfo/step-os > > > > Josh Lubell National Institute of Standards and Technology Manufacturing Systems Integration Division 100 Bureau Drive, Stop 8263 Gaithersburg MD 20899-8263, USA Phone: 1-301-975-3563, Email: lubell@nist.gov