NEW YORK Forms to be Filled out for Each Interview
FORM A Circumstances of Interview
STATE {Begin handwritten}New York{End handwritten}
NAME OF WORKER {Begin handwritten}Wayne [Walden?]{End handwritten}
ADDRESS {Begin handwritten}51 Bank St., NYC{End handwritten}
DATE {Begin handwritten}October 24, 1938{End handwritten}
SUBJECT {Begin handwritten}[Conversation in a Park - Union Square?]{End handwritten}
1. Date and time of interview {Begin handwritten}October 19, 1938{End handwritten}
2. Place of interview {Begin handwritten}Union Square NYC{End handwritten}
3. Name and address of informant {Begin handwritten}Gus, Slim, Noisy, Bronx Looey, Redeye, Mack, Ben - and others who were neither so articulate nor convincing.{End handwritten}
4. Name and address of person, if any, who put you in touch with informant.
5. Name and address of person, if any, accompanying you
6. Description of room, house, surroundings, etc.
(Use as many additional sheets as necessary, for any of the forms, each bearing the proper heading and the number to which the material refers.)
[Scene?]- A forensic assembly engrossed {Begin deleted text}[?]{End deleted text} in a dispute, the sound of which *1 at intervals [moderate in tone*1], frequently rises to a crescendo audible to every occupant of the park benches. As the sound of {Begin deleted text}[?]{End deleted text} {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}argument{End handwritten}{End inserted text} swells it {Begin deleted text}drown{End deleted text} {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}drowns{End handwritten}{End inserted text} the drone of ordinary conversation, causing many a lounger to reluctantly forfeit his seat and draw closer to the embattled protagonists.
Within the arena, surrounded by a dense crowd of curious onlookers, may be glimpsed the gesticulating flushfaced and perspiring center of attraction, the embryo of a new society. Some of {Begin deleted text}[?]{End deleted text} the contestants, while not averse to the circumfusion of their propaganda for the education of a larger audience than are {Begin deleted text}[?]{End deleted text} {Begin inserted text}immediately{End inserted text} gathered {Begin deleted text}[?]{End deleted text} {Begin deleted text}{Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}[?]{End handwritten}{End inserted text} and not [?] to risk,{End deleted text} occasionally cast apprehensive eyes in the direction from whence a belligerent "bull" may be approaching. A constant stream of people flow by, some to pause {Begin deleted text}{Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}[?]{End handwritten}{End inserted text}{End deleted text} listen a moment, significantly shake their heads, grin at one another and pass on. Now and then a strolling flapper inquisitively strives to peer into the center wherein the esoteric nucleus of the crowd is wrangling, listens with sadly uncomprehending face, grows suddenly scornful, sweeps the crowd with an appraising glance to mince along in quest of less garrulous and more gainful {Begin deleted text}[?]{End deleted text} {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}entertainment{End handwritten}{End inserted text}.
Pestering bootblacks {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten},{End handwritten}{End inserted text} resentful of so few nickles from such an array of unshined shoes, assuage their disappointment by intermittent catcalls and other cacophonous noises. Venders of pretzels, socks and sundry articles of merchandise shuffle by paying scant heed to the assemblage. Previous efforts to sell their wares has taught these "petty bourgeoise" the unprofitableness of essaying business with humans preoccupied with abstract speculations, hungering for what cannot be appeased by pretzels. {Begin note}{Begin deleted text}{Begin handwritten}I am here presenting the foreword that was written to conservation in the Park [?] about 10 years ago I heard and tried to put forth the argument.{End handwritten}{End deleted text}{End note}
{Begin page no. 1}L [Wayne Walden?]
Oct. 21, 1938 {Begin handwritten}[2530?]{End handwritten}
Subject- Conversation In A Park {Begin deleted text}or{End deleted text} Union Square {Begin deleted text}Argument{End deleted text}
Time- Today {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten},{End handwritten}{End inserted text} and conjecturally tomorrow.
Informants- Gus, Slim, Noisy, Bronx Looey, Redeye, Mack, Ben, and others who were neither so articulate nor convincing. {Begin note}{Begin handwritten}A{End handwritten}{End note}
******* ******** ********
Gus:- Naw, you got me all wrong. If you {Begin deleted text}aint{End deleted text} {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}ain't{End handwritten}{End inserted text} got the historical perspective, and you got to consider this historically as Marx--- {Begin note}{Begin handwritten}C{End handwritten}{End note}
Slim:- (interrupting) Just a minute, just a minute. Now when you produce a surplus---
Gus:- I know all that 'bout producing a surplus, but Marx specifically says in the foist volume of Das Kapital---
Slim:- Wait a second, wait a second; didn't Marx show concerning this very point, that the value of a commodity is---
Gus:- Sure he did, but listen and I'll tell you. The trouble with you guys is that you---
Slim:- Only as we understand the economic mode prevailing in any given society can you---
Gus:- For Christ's sake {Begin deleted text}, aint{End deleted text} {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}ain't{End handwritten}{End inserted text} that what I been tellin' you? Historically now, from the time of---
Slim:- I'm listening {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten},{End handwritten}{End inserted text} but get down to facts. Marx never contended----
Gus:- Who the hell's denying it {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}?{End handwritten}{End inserted text} {Begin deleted text}but{End deleted text} {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}But{End handwritten}{End inserted text} you lose sight of the fact that the value of a commodity is determined by---
Slim:- Alright, all-right; but there's a distinction between labor and labor power and Marx insisted---
Gus:- You're tellin' me! Listen {Begin deleted text}wont{End deleted text} {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}won't{End handwritten}{End inserted text} you, and get it right. Marx held that as the Capitalist system reached---
Slim:- You jump around like an old woman; didn't Marx specifically say---
Redeye: You said it, but the bushwah {Begin deleted text}aint goin'{End deleted text} {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}ain't goin{End handwritten}{End inserted text} to set back and---
Gus: Marx held, now get me right,- Marx held that historically the---
{Begin page no. 2}(Continued)
Wayne Walden
Noisy: But in the first place, how in hell you---
Gus: Marx held that as the proletariat, which he termed distinctly as the instrument for---
Slim: But stick to your argument: Marx said you can't jump ahead of the machine, which means---
Noisy: Say didn't Charlie Marx predict that-well, for instance, how about---
Redeye: Naw, you got it twisted. {Begin deleted text}Your{End deleted text} {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}You're{End handwritten}{End inserted text} thinkin' of Plato, a bushwah who wanted to---
Bronx Looey: But the cata- {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}/{End handwritten}{End inserted text} but the categorical imperatives of Plato {Begin deleted text}aint{End deleted text} {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}ain't{End handwritten}{End inserted text} yet been knocked out. For instance----
Noisy: Hey Looey, is it right you found out there aint no Santa Claus {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}?--{End handwritten}{End inserted text} and that you {Begin deleted text}aint{End deleted text} {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}ain't{End handwritten}{End inserted text} goin'---
Looey: Aw {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten},{End handwritten}{End inserted text} quit trying to be funny. If I was as wise as you are I'd go and---
Noisy: Gimme a cigarette somebody {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}-{End handwritten}{End inserted text} anybody {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}-{End handwritten}{End inserted text} any {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}/{End handwritten}{End inserted text} kind of cigarette----
Ben: When did you ever buy a pack of cigareetes. {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}/{End handwritten}{End inserted text} I been a feedin' em to you since-- {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}-{End handwritten}{End inserted text}
Mack: Say, will you mental featherweights pipe down 'stead of disturbin' a philosophical argument with a lot of-- {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}-{End handwritten}{End inserted text}
Gus: (meditatively puffing a {Begin deleted text}bumed{End deleted text} {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}bummed{End handwritten}{End inserted text} cigarett {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}){End handwritten}{End inserted text} Now take that bird lecturing last night-if ever a guy was balled up on economics-no wonder there's so many dumb---
Ben: Say, wasn't he a pain in the neck {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}?{End handwritten}{End inserted text} Imagine him saying that the Hegelian philosophy was----
Gus: If the guy hadn't made such a fool of himself when he tried to dodge my question he'd a---
Looey: Say, Gus, maybe you can tell me, but isn't the basis of Plato's position the basis of---
Gus: Why if that bozo had ever read Spinoza, or even Kant, let alone Joseph Dietszgen,{Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}/{End handwritten}{End inserted text} he would of ---
{Begin page no. 3}page 3
(Wayne Walden)
Conversation in the Park.
************************
Redeye: {Begin deleted text}[?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?] [?][?][?][?][?][?]{End deleted text} How 'bout this guy {Begin deleted text}Spengleraint{End deleted text} {Begin inserted text}Spengler-aint{End inserted text} he a bushwah {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}?{End handwritten}{End inserted text} He's now predicting {Begin deleted text}[?]{End deleted text} or anyhow {Begin deleted text}hes{End deleted text} {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}he's{End handwritten}{End inserted text} doing a lot of calamity howling that is supposed---
Gus: {Begin deleted text}Yeap{End deleted text} {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}Yepp{End handwritten}{End inserted text}, Spengler {Begin deleted text}hass em{End deleted text} {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}has 'em{End handwritten}{End inserted text} dizzy now, just as they're getting over the headache caused by Einstein's relativity,{Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}/{End handwritten}{End inserted text} and next they'll be---
Jack: 'Nother yahoo was-Oh {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten},{End handwritten}{End inserted text} what was his name {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}?{End handwritten}{End inserted text} -he wrote a book or something and---
Noisy: I'm writing the Great American novel. She's {Begin deleted text}goin{End deleted text} {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}goin'{End handwritten}{End inserted text} to be a masterpiece, boy, {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}"{End handwritten}{End inserted text} how to be happy though hungry {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}"{End handwritten}{End inserted text}. Then I got another, which will be {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}"{End handwritten}{End inserted text} How to be pretty though pregnant {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}"{End handwritten}{End inserted text} {Begin deleted text}gimme{End deleted text} {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}Gimme{End handwritten}{End inserted text} a cigarett and I'll let you see the picture of a broad I ---
Ben: That's the trouble with him {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten};{End handwritten}{End inserted text} it aint the class struggle so much as the skirt-struggle {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}!{End handwritten}{End inserted text} -listen to him and you'd---
Noisy: Where d'ye get that noise {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}?{End handwritten}{End inserted text} Why {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten},{End handwritten}{End inserted text} you poor fish {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten},{End handwritten}{End inserted text} if you had a got---
Mack: Tie a can to that stuff, will you {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}-{End handwritten}{End inserted text} and for Christ sake keep your trap closed a minute. {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}/{End handwritten}{End inserted text} And have you got the price of a cup of coffee?...
Gus: Take Slim there-where he falls down as a sound Marxian {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten},{End handwritten}{End inserted text} as he thinks he is,is when he says that---
Slim: I didn't say any such a damned thing. What I did say, was that Lewis H. Morgan, when he differentiated---
Gus: But your contention is a priori, a priori for this reason. Beginning with primitive communism---
Slim: But how you goin' {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}/{End handwritten}{End inserted text} explain the-- {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}-{End handwritten}{End inserted text}
Gus: But that {Begin deleted text}aint{End deleted text} {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}ain't{End handwritten}{End inserted text} what I'm drivin' at-if you'll keep your bazoo out of it a minute and lemme explain I'll---
Noisy: Silence, everybody-go ahead and perform Gus-the floor's yourn. {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}/{End handwritten}{End inserted text} Tell 'em that one 'bout the-- {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}-{End handwritten}{End inserted text}
Ben: Why {Begin deleted text}dont{End deleted text} {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}don't{End handwritten}{End inserted text} you go and take your beauty nap? {Begin deleted text}really{End deleted text} {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}Really{End handwritten}{End inserted text}, that guy {Begin deleted text}dont{End deleted text} {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}don't{End handwritten}{End inserted text} know whether Christwas crucified-or struck by a switch engine. A more-- {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}-{End handwritten}{End inserted text}
{Begin page no. 4}page 4
(Wayne Walden)
Conversation In The Park
[md;]
Gus: For instance, according to Spencer, and I agree with him that evolution is an integration of matter and concomitant-- {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}-{End handwritten}{End inserted text}
Noisy: {Begin deleted text}[?][?][?][?][?]{End deleted text} I tried a whole week to learn that to Ben here, but the poor fish would get all--- {Begin deleted text}[?]{End deleted text} Slim: But what the hell's that password to the hobo college got to do with what I was saying? That the trouble, when I-- {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}-{End handwritten}{End inserted text}
Gus: Yes sir, Spencer agrees with me pretty well-an indefinite incoherent homogeniety to a definite coherent heterogeniety; and-- {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}-{End handwritten}{End inserted text}
Noisy: Listen to that {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten},{End handwritten}{End inserted text} would you! Did Charlie Marx get that off his chest, or was it Schopenhauer {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}?{End handwritten}{End inserted text} A guy 'at can pull that kind of stuff-- {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}-{End handwritten}{End inserted text}
Mack: The screws in your head, Noisy, are rattlin' again; you-- {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}-{End handwritten}{End inserted text}
Jack: {Begin deleted text}Wasnt{End deleted text} {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}Wasn't{End handwritten}{End inserted text} that guy, Spencer, in the can during the war {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}?{End handwritten}{End inserted text} If I {Begin deleted text}aint{End deleted text} {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}ain't{End handwritten}{End inserted text} mistaken he was in the same cell as me for awhile and--
Noisy: Oh please, let me shake your hand! Wot a man. Wot a man!
Ben: Who? Him or Spencer--or do you mean me?
Slim: (to Gus) What you was saying about evolution is taken for granted, but even a child would know--
Jack: But what has evolution got to do with the question {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}?{End handwritten}{End inserted text} {Begin deleted text}it{End deleted text} {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}It{End handwritten}{End inserted text} seems to me if a guy wants to believe his grandpap was a monkey, why---
Gus;: Well, from the looks of the old gink he must a been-but as Huxley answered Bishop what's his name---
Slim- As for Spencer, I suppose his {Begin deleted text}[?]{End deleted text} {Begin inserted text}position{End inserted text} was logical enough for the time he wrote, but---
Gus: Why, hell, even Aristotle---
Looey: Aristotle {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}?{End handwritten}{End inserted text} {Begin deleted text}somebody{End deleted text} {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}Somebody{End handwritten}{End inserted text} was tellin'me 'bout him-lemme see; wasn't he {Begin deleted text}[?]{End deleted text} {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}the{End handwritten}{End inserted text} ---
Slim: {Begin deleted text}[?]{End deleted text} All I can say is, as Engles says, that changes in the mode of production mean-- {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}-{End handwritten}{End inserted text}
Jack: But to get that said production, you gotta be organized for it,{Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}/{End handwritten}{End inserted text} and until you get--
{Begin page no. 5}page 5
(Wayne Walden) Conversation In The Park
Slim: Who doesn't know that {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}?--{End handwritten}{End inserted text} but who's talking about that anyway {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}?/{End handwritten}{End inserted text} What I'm trying to point out is---
Noisy: Did you ever hear this one? There was an Irishman went into a resturant, and he- --
Mack: Aw {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten},{End handwritten}{End inserted text} can that chatter {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten},{End handwritten}{End inserted text} will you;/ {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}/{End handwritten}{End inserted text} you're {Begin deleted text}buttin{End deleted text} {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}buttin'{End handwritten}{End inserted text} in on a philosophical discussion with a lot of----
Noisy: So is your old man. {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}/{End handwritten}{End inserted text} What the hell you--
Gus: See, that's the way it always goes. {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}/{End handwritten}{End inserted text} Here {Begin deleted text}[?]{End deleted text} {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}I{End handwritten}{End inserted text} I been trying to tell you guys something {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten},{End handwritten}{End inserted text} and that's ths way it always goes;{Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}/{End handwritten}{End inserted text} you run off the mouth on a lot of immaterial, irrelevant and---
Redeye: Goes to show what I been saying-- the workers need ---
Looey: This winter will show 'em. {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}/{End handwritten}{End inserted text} Statistics show that a hard winter is coming and maybe that'll wake some of 'em up and---
Gus: Ah {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten},{End handwritten}{End inserted text} ha, our old friend Karl again! I {Begin deleted text}dont{End deleted text} {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}don't{End handwritten}{End inserted text} give a damn what you say, you got to come around to that old bird just the same. {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}/{End handwritten}{End inserted text} I was arguing with a buck the other day, and I was pointing out what Lester F. Ward--- {Begin deleted text}[?][?][?][?][?]{End deleted text}
Looey: There was a smart man--when he wrote an ode to a skylark--he was a deep thinker alright, you can't get away from-- {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}-{End handwritten}{End inserted text}
Gus: Well, anyway I was tellin' this buck, see, that---
Ben: Say I know a good one about a buck, it seems---
Slim: (to Gus) Now {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten},{End handwritten}{End inserted text} getting back to where we was, when you produce a surplus---
Gus: Just as I was tryin' to tell you while ago {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}-{End handwritten}{End inserted text} just as Thornsten Veblin says {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}--{End handwritten}{End inserted text} if you got the historical perspective, you--- {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}({End handwritten}{End inserted text} etc, etc., etc. {Begin inserted text}{Begin handwritten}){End handwritten}{End inserted text} {Begin handwritten}{Begin deleted text}Wayne Walden: I'm not sure that the foregoing is folk-stuff (folklore) but - anyway its a fairly faithful recording of an actual "conservation" as I heard it in Union Square, New York City.{End deleted text}{End handwritten}{Begin note}{Begin handwritten}D{End handwritten}{End note}
{Begin page}FOLKLORE
NEW YORK
FORM D Extra Comment
STATE
NAME OF WORKER
ADDRESS
DATE
SUBJECT {Begin handwritten}[Conversation in a Park - Union Square?]{End handwritten} {Begin handwritten}I am not sure that the foregoing is "folk-stuff" or folklore -- but it is a fairly faithful recording of an actual "conservation" as I heard it in Union Square, New York City.{End handwritten}