Transcript of Interview of U.S. Ambassador Francis Ricciardone
on Dateline Philippines, ANC 21
October 19, 2004

PINKY WEBB: We now have on the line, Ambassador Francis Ricciardone. Ambassador, good afternoon to you, sir.

AMB. RICCIARDONE: Good afternoon, magandang hapon.

PINKY: Magandang hapon, Ambassador. First and foremost, what kind of word is going around within your circle about the investigation on Major General Carlos F. Garcia?

AMB. RICCIARDONE: Well, we take it as a historic moment of opportunity for the Philippines. It’s an opportunity to get things right and have the country come out the other side of it all the stronger, if indeed, as we believe is happening now, the Government and all the institutions of democracy respond in the right way and vigorously press for the facts. And if those facts indicate that a prosecution is in order, then vigorously and swiftly prosecute so that this isn’t swept under the rug or disappears, as so many of these cases might have done in the past.

PINKY: How certain are you Ambassador, that none of the military aid from the United States coming in to the Philippines has ever been involved in any possible corruption?

AMB. RICCIARDONE: Well you’re stating this in very broad terms about any aid ever in any form of corruption, and one can never be certain about those things. But I am very confident that the controls we have in place for our military assistance have been effective. Number one, the bulk of our assistance has been in the form of training, and training cannot be stolen—it’s delivered directly to the intended beneficiary. We hope it’s supplied (inaudible) and exploited later in the assignments process. I’ll get to that in a minute.

Another important form in the bulk of our military assistance comes in the form of equipment. There too, we have modern means of control—bar codes and so forth—to ensure that the inventory is in place and being distributed as necessary. We collaborate with the AFP very closely on this. In fact we have found that they have been so scrupulous in some cases that equipment we have provided has stayed in warehouses, where the officers proudly show us whenever we check yearly or quarterly or whenever it that the equipment hasn’t been issued to the soldiers as contrary to our intent, we want those soldiers to get those rifles, for example. So that’s good.

Now, there’s one area that’s of concern. We only provide money to the Armed Forces of the Philippines in a very specific case. After, and I emphasize ‘after,’ a training exercise has taken place, the Armed Forces of the Philippines provides us a bill, and we insist on receipts, and we look very carefully what those bills are for—whether it’s for fuel or ammunition, or whatever was provided by the AFP in support of American forces that trained together with them. We always make sure that those bills are not padded, to our best estimates of what is the reasonable expenditure of fuel in terms of quantity, for example, and then what the price is for that fuel or bullets or you know, use of the landing rights, or whatever it is. So certain amounts of money then flow after the fact, after the goods and services have been provided to us…

PINKY: Right, and after the training has been conducted.

AMB. RICCIARDONE: Well, we don’t pay money to the Armed Forces of the Philippines – we provide the training directly, in kind, with American trainers. Now what we cannot say is what happens to the money that we provide the Armed Forces after it’s turned over. That of course is a matter of your internal control. Of course, that merits a close look.

PINKY: But it’s just really expenses incurred during the training that you are billed for, basically?

AMB. RICCIARDONE: Correct. Now we do have concerns about the systems within the Armed Forces of the Philippines. But it’s not just us who have the concerns. General Abaya has highlighted those. President Arroyo herself pushed very hard throughout 2003, starting when she went to the White House in May and then when President Bush came here to Manila in October. She pushed to ratchet it up—something that had been going on, called the Joint Defense Assessment—where our experts in management controls, in training, procurement, finance, and information management were working with your… (technical glitch)

PINKY: Ambassador?

AMB. RICCIARDONE: …We developed this into something called the Philippine Defense Reform program. And this has been led under your Commander-in-Chief and General Abaya, and other general officers and junior officers into a very detailed and extensive program of reform. It will be expensive. It takes money to get things right. Secretary Cruz has gone to your Congress asking for the support to get this right and we have pledged to provide matching funds. Not dollar to dollar, but as the Armed Forces of the Philippines expends money on this plan, to put into place more transparent and effective systems, we will contribute accordingly. For example, the Armed Forces of the Philippines, unlike your modern corporations in this country or your bank, do everything…do all their financial business using cash. And cash—I’m sure your channel, your station does not do business strictly with cash—it’s an invitation to thievery and malversation. It doesn’t leave a record of every single transaction. Were you to do it using a moderate system of electronic transaction, you could catch people even if they are sneaky and clever and trying to abuse the system, a trained forensic researcher can go after them.

RICKY CARANDANG: Mr. Ambassador? Hi, it’s Ricky Carandang.

AMB. RICCIARDONE: Hi, Ricky, how are you?

RICKY: I’m fine, sir. Just a question about this reform program that arose from the Joint Defense Assessment. The reform program – are you confident that if it is implemented vigorously that it will result in the kind of Armed Forces that both the Philippines wants for itself and that the United States wants as an ally?

AMB. RICCIARDONE: Yes. It is a necessary condition. It’s not sufficient. Because the Armed Forces in no state exists in a vacuum. It is required to put the Armed Forces of the Philippines back on its feet as an effective organization to carry out its mission and I’m confident that it’s off to a good start. It’s not sufficient.

RICKY: Are you satisfied with the pace at which we’ve been implementing these reforms?

AMB. RICCIARDONE: Well, we can always do more and do it better. We’re hoping for example that the funding from your side will be released and go ahead and if that happens, and when that happens, we will put in our contribution. What is ultimate, Ricky, in a larger context, is what I think is happening in the Philippines now. I hope, I hope the Philippines is reaching a ‘tipping’ point—where a culture of acceptance of corruption as inevitable, is changing. And we see a Government from the top down and from the bottom-up saying, “This is not acceptable. We will investigate. We will prosecute. Not only will we investigate. The investigations will at some point conclude, and they will result in a prosecution. And the prosecution will result in sentences and the sentences will be carried out.”

RICKY: So you are hopeful, sir that all of these hearings in the house and all of this talk about corruption in the military will ultimately lead to the point, the tipping point, where it will provide the impetus for reforms to move forward rather than stop reform in its tracks.

AMB. RICCIARDONE: I have faith that it can and I have faith in the Filipino people and your institutions of democracy that you can. But you must choose. Are you going to let this die after a week of headlines and hearing? Or are the Justice Department, the Ombudsman, the AFP, all the institutions of the executive branch, the Congress, the media—are you all going to press on this until you get to the bottom of it and you carry out and go as far as it goes, to expose the networks and bring the people to justice who allegedly have been stealing from the soldiers and the Filipino people? And I think you can. I have faith.

RICKY: I have one last question, and it’s a very specific question. I know you’ve made a statement on this before, but just to quell any lingering doubts. There were reports that American authorities were looking into possible money laundering activities by three Cabinet level officials and some other members of the Armed Forces brass. I know that you’ve made a statement about that, but just so that there’s no mistake about it, is there in fact any kind of investigation going on by any American authorities in this direction?

AMB. RICCIARDONE: We don’t comment on specific investigations, nor would I necessarily know if there were law enforcement investigations going on in one or another jurisdiction in the United States, for example, the illegal transfers of funds. We have a very strict anti-money laundering system in the United States and all transactions over ten thousand dollars get reported automatically, so I cannot tell you categorically that there are no investigations going on. There well may be, but I’m not aware of any. I wouldn’t necessarily be aware. What I can tell you is, we have a very rich and productive and cooperative relationship between our two countries and among our many different law enforcement agencies to go after and investigate and ultimately prosecute and even to extradite citizens, not just officials, of either of our countries who are violating either or both of our laws.

PINKY: Ambassador, just one last question on my part. Any word on any developments on the case of Major General Carlos F. Garcia before the U.S. authorities, sir?

AMB. RICCIARDONE: You know, I really have to refrain from comment on specific, pending cases, because anything I say under our law and our legal system might be used, might in some way either damage the investigation or set back a follow-up prosecution. So we’re really careful and I hope you’ll understand if I don’t comment specifically on one or another pending cases.

PINKY: U.S. Ambassador to the Philippines, Francis Ricciardone, sir, thank you for your time.

AMB. RICCIARDONE: Thank you very much.

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