U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
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USINFO Webchat Transcript

Countering the Terrorist Mentality: The Mythology of Martyrdom in Iraq

Guest:     Mohammed M. Hafez
Date:      June 27, 2007
Time:      1:30 p.m. EDT (1730 GMT)

Moderator: Welcome to today's webchat. We look forward to your questions. The webchat will begin at 17:30 GMT.

Mohammed Hafez: I'm glad to be joining this web chat. I look forward to answering your questions. Please do not hesitate to ask as many questions as you need to. I truly enjoy hearing from you.

Question [Regina]: Dear. Dr. Hafez, The use of suicide as a weapon of war is not new. However, has it ever been used on such a scale? Is there any comparable period in warfare?

Answer [Mohammed Hafez]: In the modern era, the use of suicide attacks is unprecedented. It started in the 1980s with Lebanese factions.  After that it was widely used by the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka. The Palestinians then used this tactic against Israel. However, when we look at the use of suicide attacks in Iraq, it far exceeds those of all other groups combined.

Q [Regina]: Dr. Hafez, It is often said that suicide bombing in born of desperation and hopelessness. If that is the case then why are so many coming from very wealthy countries such as Saudi Arabia with one of the highest living standards in the world?

A [Mohammed Hafez]: I don't think this strategy stems from desperation or hopelessness. There are multiple motivations for the use of this tactic. Some are seeking revenge, others feel it is their religious duty to fight the best way possible to defend one's land, and still others are inspired by images of Muslim suffering and want to inflict pain on their "enemies." I would not say desperation is a major driver for volunteerism.

Q [Hajanirina student at the Madagascar Air Force base English teaching center "Ivato"]: In the back of terrorist [mind] is there always a political reason and [fear]?

A [Mohammed Hafez]: I'm not sure what you are asking exactly. Terrorism is a political act and it often is seen as the only viable option to a group facing a powerful enemy. Once a person joins a terrorist group, the friendship and bond of arms makes that person increasingly dependent on the group. So, what begins as a political act increasingly transforms into a group commitment.

Q [Marek]: Is there a specific point in time that you can say was the turning point in terms of martyrdom viewed as a just act of defiance?

A [Mohammed Hafez]: When two conflicting parties are so busy killing each other, the need to retaliate and inflict pain on the other side often overrides the need to be strategic and realistic. I've seen this in the Palestinian case--many saw no benefit to suicide attacks, but they persisted in attacking Israelis because they just wanted to take revenge.

Q [Marek]: Also, have you studied the countering effects of families against the "pull" of the martyrdom argument? Or do families try to counter the message of jihadists?

A [Mohammed Hafez]: Families often do not know that their sons and daughters have been recruited until it is too late. In Iraq, for example, I often hear stories of families getting a call from their sons' recruiters telling them "congratulations, your son has been martyred." They have no communications with their sons once they enter Iraq.

Q [Chat Participant]: Do you think there is a fear of speaking against martyr operations in the Muslim world?

A [Mohammed Hafez]: No, many people speak out against it. Of course, Sunnis in Anbar may not be able to do so because Al Qaeda there might kill them, but generally speaking people can speak out against it. The problem is that the tactic is popular because Muslims feel that they lack power against powerful enemies. Suicide attacks are seen as an equalizing tool.

Q [KristoffMT]: Dr. Hafez, You said that the use of suicide attacks in Iraq far exceeds those of other groups such as Palestinians, Lebanese, and Tamil Tigers. Why is that? Is it that the jihadis have created this successful "heroic myth" that is directly connected to Iraq? What other factors contribute to making suicide attacks in Iraq so numerous?

A [Mohammed Hafez]: There are too many factors why Iraq has become the lead country in which suicide attacks take place. I'll list them: 1. Lack of sufficient troops to control the country and engage in effective counter insurgency. 2. Popular legitimacy of this tactic from previous struggles (jihads draw on arguments used by Palestinians and Lebanese to justify suicide attacks in Iraq). 3. The availability of Iraqi insurgents who are willing to facilitate this tactic against a government they want to topple. 4. The lack of popularity of the US in the Muslim world--many Muslims see the wars on Iraq and terrorism as wars on Islam and Muslims.

Moderator: Today’s webchat is one of several webchats tied to the Department of State’s current eJournalUSA “Countering the terrorist Mentality.”

Q [KristoffMT]: Regarding Senator Lugar’s speech on Monday night, to what extent (if any) would large-scale redeployment of US forces (to, say, Kuwait) have a moderating effect on the “terrorist mentality” in Iraq?

A [Mohammed Hafez]: U.S. withdrawal will not affect the "terrorist mentality" in a positive way. Instead, redeployment will have the following effects: (1) It will send the message that Jihads and suicide bombers can defeat a superpower; (2) Iraq will become a safe haven for jihads around the world and a place to train; (3) Iraq will experience genocidal massacres between Sunnis and Shiites because the central state is not in a position to protect its citizens.

Q [KristoffMT]: Also, in your opinion, what is/how large is the impact of medieval Islamic (Ibn Taymiyya, e.g.) scholars on wider, modern Jihad Movement?

A [Mohammed Hafez]: A recent study by the Combating Terrorism Center at West Point shows that Ibn Taymiyya is widely read and cited by jihadists. His central idea is that Muslims can rebel against their governments if they deem those governments un-Islamic. In classical Islamic theory, it is not permissible to rebel against the ruler. Ibn Taymiyya rejects this view.

Q [KristoffMT]: We hear a lot of rhetoric on a “democratic, pluralistic, secular Iraq” - is this a reasonable end game?

A [Mohammed Hafez]: No, not at all. Iraqis need security, first and foremost. Most Iraqis look back to the days when they could walk the streets without fear of IEDS and suicide bombers. They are looking for a "strong man" not liberty.

Moderator: We wish to thank Mohammed Hafez for joining us today. The webchat is now closed. Please visit our USINFO Webchat Station homepage for more information on upcoming events and a transcript of today’s discussion (posted within one business day). (Guests are chosen for their expertise. The views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of the U.S. Department of State.)