REGULATIONS, NO ASSESSMENT OF EXISTING STATE LAWS AND
           REGULATIONS. SIMPLY PUT, THE EFFORT SO FAR FROM THE DEPARTMENT
           OF INTERIOR IS NO DETERMINATION OF NEED WHATSOEVER HAS COME OUT
           OF THIS PROCESS. GOVERNOR MILLER FROM NEVADA PERHAPS PUT IT
           BEST WHAT HE SAID THAT THE "CURRENT DEPARTMENT OF INTERIOR
           MINING REGULATION EFFORT IS A SOLUTION LOOKING FOR A PROBLEM
           PROBLEM." AND MY GOOD FRIEND FROM ARKANSAS IS HERE WITH HIS

           CONTINUATION OF HIS OBJECTION TO THIS PARTICULAR INDUSTRY.
           DURING THE LAST APPROPRIATION CYCLE, WE ATTEMPTED TO TEMPER THE
           SECRETARY'S DRIVING IMPULSE TO REGULATE WITH AN AMENDMENT WHICH
           WOULD HAVE FORCED -- FORCED -- THE DEPARTMENT OF INTERIOR TO AT
           LEAST COORDINATE THEIR EFFORTS WITH THE GOVERNORS OF THE
           AFFECTED STATES. NOW, MY FRIEND FROM ARKANSAS SAID THEY'D MET
           THAT OBLIGATION OBLIGATION. THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS THE
           GOVERNORS OF THE AFFECTED STATES DIDN'T AGREE WITH THE
           DEPARTMENT OF INTERIOR. IT WAS OUR HOPE THROUGH THIS
           COORDINATED EFFORT THE NEW REGULATIONS WOULD NOT DROP THE

           MONKEY WRENCH INTO THE EXISTING STATE-FEDERAL REGULATORY
           NETWORK. ANYONE, MADAM PRESIDENT, WITH AN EVEN RUDIMENTARY
           UNDERSTANDING OF HOW THE MINING INDUSTRY IS REGULATED
           UNDERSTANDS THAT THE STATE GOVERNMENTS PLAY BY FAR THE LARGEST
           ROLE IN OVERSIGHT, ENFORCEMENT -- AND ENFORCEMENT OF
           ENVIRONMENTAL REGULATIONS IN THE INDUSTRY. WHAT'S WRONG WITH
           THAT?
           WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT?
           THE SENATOR FROM ARKANSAS SEEMS TO PUT LITTLE CREDENCE IN THE
           OVERSIGHT CAPABILITY OF THE STATES. WHAT'S WRONG WITH THE

           STATES -- THE MOST CONCERNED GROUP WITH REGARD TO THEIR
           RESPONSIBILITY CONCERNING ENVIRONMENTAL OVERSIGHT ON THE MINING INDUSTRY?
           IS IT BETTER TO HAVE A FACELESS BUREAUCRAT IN WASHINGTON, D.C.,
           DICTATING WHAT GOES ON IN NEVADA, CALIFORNIA, IDAHO, OR THE
           PEOPLE OF IDAHO OR THE PEOPLE OF ALASKA THAT LIVE WITH THE
           MINING INDUSTRY, THAT TAKE PRIDE IN THEIR STATE, THAT TAKE
           PRIDE IN THE RECLAMATION PROCESS TO MEET THEIR OBLIGATIONS?
           WELL, THE REASON FOR THIS IS SIMPLE. OVER THE TIME, THE STATES

           HAVE BEEN DELEGATED FEDERAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR WATER QUALITY,
           AIR QUALITY, SOLID WASTE MANAGEMENT, MINE RECLAMATION, WELL,
           THESE LAWS ARE THE 800-POUND GORILLA WHEN IT COMES TO MINING.
           OVER TIME, THE FEDERAL AGENCIES HAVE BEEN FULLY INTEGRATED INTO
           STATE ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION LAWS. THOSE INTERWE HAVEN LAWS
           FORM A -- INTERWOVEN LAWS FORM A COMPLETE AND BALLED NET OF
           ENVIRONMENTALLY TUNED REGULATIONS THAT COVER ALMOST EVERY
           ASPECT OF MINING ACTIVITY. AND IF THEY DON'T -- AND DON'T COVER
           SOME -- THEY WILL. WITHOUT SO MUCH AS A THOUGHT GIVEN TO THE

           IMPACT, THEIR RULE-MAKING EFFORTS WOULD HAVE UPON EXISTING
           FEDERAL AND STATE PROGRAMS, THE DEPARTMENT OF INTERIOR TOOK
           UPON ITSELF TO LAUNCH INTO A MAJOR REWRITE EFFORT. WHAT'S THEIR AGENDA?
           IS IT TO RUN THE DOMESTIC MINING INDUSTRY OFF-SHORE?
           WE'VE LEARNED FROM WHAT HAPPENED IN MEXICO AND CANADA WHEN THE
           INDUSTRY BASICALLY CEASED TO EXIST AT ITS PREVIOUSLY LEVEL
           BECAUSE OF RESTRICTIONS. AND, REMEMBER, UNLIKE THE POULTRY
           INDUSTRY, WHICH IS A DOMESTIC INDUSTRY -- AND MY COLLEAGUE FROM
           ARKANSAS IS FAMILIAR WITH -- THE MINING INDUSTRY HAS TO OPERATE

           INTERNATIONALLY. IT EITHER COMPETES ON AN INTERNATIONAL BASIS
           OR IT DOESN'T. MUCH MORE COMPLEX. LAST YEAR, AT THE REQUEST OF
           GOVERNOR MILLER OF NEVADA, SENATOR REID PUT AN AMENDMENT TO THE
           INTERIOR APPROPRIATIONS BILL WHICH WOULD HAVE MADE IT MANDATORY
           THAT THE INTERIOR DEPARTMENT AT LEAST COORDINATE THE EFFORTS
           WITH THE STATES -- AT LEAST COORDINATE THEM. HE DID THIS ONLY
           AFTER THE GOVERNOR MADE IT CLEAR THAT COORDINATION WAS NOT
           TAKING PLACE. SO I WOULD TAKE ISSUE WITH THE GENERAL STATEMENT

           OF MY FRIEND FROM ARKANSAS. WE WERE PREPARED LAST YEAR TO MAKE
           INTERIOR DEPARTMENT COORDINATION WITH THE STATUS MANDATORY.
           SENATOR BUMPERS, HOWEVER, SAW FIT TO INTERCEDE ON BEHALF OF THE
           INTERIOR WITH AN AMENDMENT WHICH REMOVED MANDATORY COORDINATION
           WITH STATES AND PUT IN PLACE A REQUIREMENT THAT THE SECRETARY
           CERTIFY TO THE CONGRESS THAT THE COORDINATION HAD OCCURRED. AND
           THE SECRETARY HAS DONE THAT. BUT THE STATES DIDN'T AGREE. THEY

           DIDN'T AGREE, MADAM PRESIDENT. WELL, WHILE I HAVE HAD DOUBTS
           ABOUT THIS, I SUPPORTED THE APPROACH. I WAS HOPEFUL THAT THE
           AMENDMENT WOULD BE RECEIVED IN GOOD FAITH BY THE INTERIOR
           DEPARTMENT AND THAT THEY WOULD MAKE SURE THAT THE STATES
           INTERESTED WERE FACTORED INTO THEIR MINING REGULATION EFFORT.
           WHAT FOLLOWED WAS THE MOST, WELL, I THINK DISRESPECTFUL,
           IN-YOUR-FACE RESPONSE I HAVE EVER SEEN FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF
           INTERIOR AND ANY OTHER AGENCY OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. IN THE
           INTERIOR APPROPRIATIONS BILL, WHEN IT WAS SIGNED BY THE
           PRESIDENT NOVEMBER 11, 1997, A LETTER CERTIFYING THAT

           COORDINATION WITH THE GOVERNORS HAD TAKEN PLACE WAS SIGNED ON
           MONDAY, NOVEMBER 14. WELL, THEY DIDN'T AGREE. THE CAVALIER
           ATTITUDE OF THE INTERIOR DEPARTMENT IS THE SOLE REASON WE ARE
           BACK HERE AGAIN THIS YEAR, BUT THIS TIME I WOULD URGE MY
           COLLEAGUES NOT TO BE TAKEN IN BY THE RHETORIC RHETORIC. FOOL ME
           ONCE, SHAME ON YOU. FOOL ME TWICE, WHILE -- WHY, SHAME ON ME.
           WELL, MADAM PRESIDENT, IT'S OBVIOUS TO ME THAT WE'VE SEEN

           EXAMPLES THAT THE DEPARTMENT OF INTERIOR IS SIMPLY UNWILLING,
           INCAPABLE OF FOLLOWING GOOD GOVERNMENT PRACTICE WHEN IT COMES
           TO REGULATING THE INDUSTRY. THEY HAVE SO COMPLETELY LOST THEIR
           OBJECTIVITY AND HAVE BECOME SO BIASED AGAINST THIS INDUSTRY
           THAT THEY APPEAR COMPLETELY INCAPABLE OF MAKING OBJECTIVE AND
           FAIR DECISIONS. AND IT'S JUST NOT THE MINING INDUSTRY, MADAM
           PRESIDENT. GRAZING ON PUBLIC LANDS FALL INTO THE SAME CATEGORY.
           OIL AND GAS EXPLORATION -- SAME CATEGORY. ACCESS TO PUBLIC

           LANDS. THE ADMINISTRATION TALKS ABOUT GLOBAL WARMING. THEY TALK
           ABOUT GAS IS THE ANSWER. WHERE ARE YOU GOING TO GET THE GAS?
           THEY WON'T ALLOW EXPLORATION ON PUBLIC LAND. TIMBERING --
           FOREST SERVICE LANDS. AND, OF COURSE, MINING ON WESTERN PUBLIC
           LAND. WELL, OUR AMENDMENT DOES NOT MAKE A FINDING ONE WAY OR
           ANOTHER, MADAM PRESIDENT, REGARDING THE ULTIMATE NEED FOR NEW
           REGULATION. IT DOES DIRECT IN AN UNCOMBISEED -- AN UNCOMBISEED

           A -- UNBIASED ASESSIONMENT BE COMPLETED BEFORE -- BEFORE -- AND
           THAT'S THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF THE NATIONAL ACADEMY OF SCIENCES --
           BEFORE THE INTERIOR DEPARTMENT CAN FINALIZE REGULATIONS. WITH
           DIMINISHED BUDGETS, INCREASED NEED AND THE GROWING STATUS OF
           ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION LAWS, WHY ON EARTH WOULD ANY
           RESPONSIBLE GOVERNMENT MANAGER PROPOSE A LARGE-SCALE
           RULE-MAKING EFFORT WITHOUT FIRST ESTABLISHING A SOLID AND
           SPECIFIC NEED?
           SINCE IT'S BECOME OBVIOUS THAT THE INTERIOR DEPARTMENT IS
           EITHER UNWILLING OR INCAPABLE OF ACCOMPLISHING THIS ASSESSMENT,

           THEN IT IS IMPERATIVE THAT THE CONGRESS NOW STEP IN, ASSUME THE
           RESPONSIBILITY. THEY LEAVE US WITH NO OTHER CHOICE. ONCE THE
           NATIONAL ACADEMY OF SCIENCE IS -- COMPLETES ITS ASSESSMENT, THE
           INTERIOR DEPARTMENT WILL BE FREE TO PROCEED WITH ITS REGULATORY
           EFFORT. AT THAT POINT, HOWEVER, THEY WILL HAVE THE INFORMATION
           THEY NEED TO REWRITE THE REGULATIONS IN A WAY THAT FIXES
           PROBLEMS, IF THERE ARE ANY, BUT NOT CREATE PROBLEMS. THE
           CITIZENS OF THIS NATION ARE ENTITLED TO A DEPARTMENT OF

           INTERIOR THAT DETERMINES NEED BEFORE IT ACTS, THAT DOESN'T
           WASTE MONEY, THAT IT SORRILY NEEDS IN OTHER PLACES. A
           DEPARTMENT THAT DOESN'T UNNECESSARILY DISRUPT A SYSTEM OF STATE
           AND FEDERAL REGULATIONS LABOROUSLY CONSTRUCTED OVER DECADES TO
           COMPLIMENT AND ENHANCE ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AT THE LOWEST
           POSSIBLE COST. MADAM PRESIDENT, THE TIME HAS COME TO DRAW A
           LINE IN THE SAND WITH THIS ADMINISTRATION THAT HAS SIMPLY NOT
           -- IT IS SIMPLY NOT IN THEIR PURVIEW TO REGULATE AN INDUSTRY
           OUT OF EXISTENCE WITHOUT FIRST ESTABLISHING A NEED FOR THE
           REGULATION. THEY CANNOT SIMPLY DISMISS INPUT FROM THE AFFECTED

           STATES, WHICH THEY HAVE. THESE STATES TRULY ARE OUR PARTNERS,
           NOT OUR ENEMIES. I HAVE ON HAND, COMMUNICATIONS FROM THE
           GOVERNORS OF NEVADA, ARIZONA, IDAHO, UTAH, WYOMING, NEW MEXICO
           ASKING CONGRESS TO PROTECT THEIR INTERESTS. ASKING US TO
           SUPPORT RETENTION OF THE NATIONAL ACADEMY OF OF -- ACADEMY OF
           SCIENCE OBJECTIVE STUDY. LIKE US, THEY SIMPLY WANT THE INTERIOR
           DEPARTMENT TO DEMONSTRATE A NEED FOR REGULATIONS BEFORE THEY
           STEP OFF ON THE EFFORT. BY VOTING TO TABLE SENATOR BUMPERS'
           AMENDMENT -- AND IT'S GOING TO BE A MOTION TO STRIKE -- WE WILL

           CERTAINLY SET IN MOTION -- IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING IT WILL BE
           SENATOR BUMPERS' MOTION TO STRIKE. NOW, I'M SURE ALL OF YOU ARE
           GOING TO HEAR A GREAT DEAL OF VERBIAGE ABOUT THIS ISSUE. BUT
           WHEN THE DUST SETTLES AND THE SMOKE IS BLOWN AWAY, YOU'LL ONLY
           HAVE TO ASK
           
           YOURSELF ONE QUESTION: DO WE WANT TO START A MASSIVE,
           POTENTIALLY DISRUPTIVE RULE-MAKING EFFORT BEFORE THE NEED FOR
           THE EFFORT IS ESTABLISHED?
           THERE YOU HAVE IT -- IT'S SHORT AND SIMPLE AND TO THE POINT. SO
           I WOULD URGE MY COLLEAGUES TO JOIN ME IN A VOTE AGAINST SENATOR
           BUMPERS' AMENDMENT AND IN SO DOING, WE WILL BE SENDING A CLEAR

           MESSAGE TO THE ADMINISTRATION THAT GOOD GOVERNMENT IS STILL
           IMPORTANT GOVERNMENT, AND THE GOVERNMENT THAT'S BEST IS A
           GOVERNMENT THAT'S CLOSEST TO THE PEOPLE. AND THE STATES' VOICE
           SHOULD BE HEARD. THE STATES PLAY A CRITICAL ROLE IN
           ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AND THEIR PARTNERSHIP AND INPUT IS
           IMPORTANT. LET'S HAVE A FAIR, OBJECTIVE, QUALIFIED SCIENTIFIC
           GROUP, THE NATIONAL ACADEMY OF SCIENCE, MAKE THE CALL. MADAM
           PRESIDENT, COULD I HAVE HOW MUCH TIME IS REMAINING ON EACH SIDE?
           
           

           THE PRESIDING OFFICER: THE SENATOR FROM ALASKA HAS 57 MINUTES.
           THE SENATOR FROM ARKANSAS HAS 38.
           

           MR. MURKOWSKI: MADAM PRESIDENT, I WOULD YIELD --
           

           MR. REID: MR. PRESIDENT, IF I COULD SAY --
           

           MR. MURKOWSKI: -- TIME TO MY FRIEND FROM THE STATE OF NEVADA UP
           TO 15 MINUTES.
           

           MR. REID: MR. PRESIDENT, THROUGH YOU TO THE MANAGER OF THIS
           AMENDMENT, THE SENATOR FROM NEVADA WOULD LIKE 20 MINUTES. THE
           JUNIOR SENATOR FROM NEVADA, 10 MINUTES.
           

           MR. MURKOWSKI: THAT IS QUITE SATISFACTORY.
           

           THE PRESIDING OFFICER: THE SENATOR FROM NEVADA IS RECOGNIZED.
           

           MR. REID: MADAM PRESIDENT, LET'S PUT THIS IN PROPER
           PERSPECTIVE. GOLD PRICES ARE AT THE LOWEST LEVEL IN 19 YEARS
           JUST LAST WEEK. THE MINING INDUSTRY HAS SEEN LAYOFFS. SOME OF
           THE COMPANIES HAVE FILED BANKRUPTCY. THIS SEEMS LIKE A VERY
           INTUNE TIME TO COME IN -- INOPPORTUNE TIME TO COME IN AND
           ATTACK THE MINING INDUSTRY. IT'S AN INDUSTRY THAT CREATES THE
           BEST BLUE-COLLAR JOBS IN AMERICA. I REPEAT, THE BEST
           BLUE-COLLAR JOBS IN AMERICA COME FROM MINING. HERE IS THE
           SENATOR FROM ARKANSAS AGAIN, AS HE DOES EVERY YEAR, ATTACKING

           THE MINING INDUSTRY. THIS YEAR AT TACK IS AT A VERY INOPPORTUNE
           TIME. I REPEAT, THE MINING INDUSTRY IS GOING THROUGH SOME VERY
           DIFFICULT TIMES. I WOULD ALSO SAY, THAT IN SPITE OF PAYING THE
           HIGHEST WAGES IN BLUE-COLLAR INDUSTRY IN AMERICA, THE MINING
           INDUSTRY IN AMERICA IS THE BEST IN THE WORLD. THE COSTS OF
           PRODUCTION ARE EXTREMELY LOW. THEY'RE LOWER THAN AUSTRALIA. ANY
           OTHER COUNTRY, WE'RE COMPETITIVE. BUT IT'S BEEN VERY DIFFICULT.
           NOW, HAVING SAID THAT, WE ALSO HAVE TO RECOGNIZE THAT THE GOLD

           INDUSTRY IS A VERY IMPORTANT INDUSTRY FOR THE UNITED STATES.
           WE'RE A NET EXPORTER OF GOLD. IT'S ONE OF THE FEW THINGS THAT
           WE DO THAT CREATES A FAVORABLE LANCE OF TRADE IN AMERICA. SO
           WITH THAT AS THE SETTING FOR THIS AMENDMENT, LET ME SAY THAT
           WHAT THIS AMENDMENT IS ATTEMPTING TO DO IS STRIKE FROM THE BILL
           LANGUAGE THAT IS VERY, VERY REASONABLE. MADAM PRESIDENT, THE
           SECRETARY OF INTERIOR IS ATTEMPTING TO DO BY REGULATION WHAT HE

           CAN'T DO BY LEGISLATION. WHAT RIGHT DOES HE HAVE TO OVERRULE
           WHAT THE WILL OF THE CONGRESS IS?
           HE HAS NO RIGHT TO DO THAT, AND HE'S TRIED VERY HARD. I'M NOT
           MAKING THIS UP. HE SAID IN 1994, WHEN HIS LEGISLATIVE EFFORTS
           FAILED -- AND I QUOTE -- "WE WILL EXPLORE THE FULL RANGE OF
           REGULATORY AUTHORITY WE NOW POSSESS." SINCE THAT COMMENT WITH A
           VENGEANCE, THE SECRETARY HAS GOTTEN BUSY ON THE REGULATORY SIDE
           WHILE MAKING NO ATTEMPT TO WORK WITH CONGRESS TO REFORM THE

           MINING LAW BILL. IF WE HAD HAD SUPPORT FROM THE SECRETARY'S
           OFFICE IN THE PAST TWO MONTHS, WE MAY BE HERE TODAY TALKING
           ABOUT MINING LAW REFORM RATHER THAN HACKING AWAY AT THIS
           INTERIOR BILL. MADAM PRESIDENT, THE GOVERNORS HAVE STATED AT
           THEIR MEETING IN MADORA, NORTH DAKOTA, IN JUNE OF 1997, THEY
           POINTED OUT IN A RESOLUTION THAT THE CURRENT STATE PROGRAMS, AS
           FAR AS THEY'RE CONCERNED, ARE WORKING WELL AND ATTEMPTS TO
           DUPLICATE THEM SHOULD BE AVOIDED. I WOULD SAY, MADAM PRESIDENT,

           THAT WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS, AGAIN, SOMETHING WE LIKE TO TALK
           ABOUT BUT NOT DO MUCH ABOUT, AND THAT IS TALK ABOUT STATES'
           RIGHTS. STATES' RIGHTS ARE VERY IMPORTANT TO OUR FRAME OF
           GOVERNMENT, OUR FRAMEWORK OF GOVERNMENT. AND WE HAVE HERE A
           NUMBER OF STATES WHO ARE SAYING WE'RE WORKING, WE'RE WILLING TO
           WORK WITH THE -- WITHIN THE FEDERAL CONCEPT, AND ALL THE LAWS
           THAT WE PASS HERE IN WASHINGTON THAT AFFECT MINING, BUT LET US
           REGULATE FROM THE STATE LEVEL. AND THIS ATTEMPT IS ATTEMPTING
           TO TAKE THAT AWAY. THE SECRETARY OF INTERIOR HAS PROCEEDED

           UNDAUNTED WITH HIS RULE MAKING DESPITE HOW THE GOVERNORS FEEL.
           THIS LED TO LANGUAGE BEING INCLUDED IN LAST YEAR'S INTERIOR
           BILL THAT PRECLUDED THE SECRETARY FROM EXPENDING FUNDS TO
           REWRITE 309. AS THE CHAIRMAN OF THE FULL COMMITTEE HAS SAID
           RECENTLY, A FEW MINUTES AGO, TO SHOW THE ABSOLUTE DISRESPECT
           FOR CONGRESS, THE SECRETARY THREE DAYS AFTER THE PRESIDENT
           SIGNED THENTERIOR BILL -- WE STUCK LANGUAGE IN THE BILL SAYING
           THAT HE TO CONFER WITH THE GOVERNORS -- THREE DAYS AFTER

           SIGNING THAT BILL, HE SENT A LETTER SAYING THAT THEY HAD
           CONFERRED AND COMPLIED WITH THE REQUIREMENT TO CONSULT WITH THE
           GOVERNORS. NOW, LET'S BE REALISTIC -- WITHIN THREE DAYS?
           OF COURSE NOT. THIS WAS, AS THE CHAIRMAN OF THE FULL COMMITTEE
           SAID, AN IN-YOUR-FACE REMARK TO CONGRESS FROM THE SECRETARY OF
           INTERIOR'S OFFICE SAYING WE DON'T HAVE TO CONSULT WITH YOU YOU.
           WELL, AFTER NUMEROUS GOVERNORS HAD BOTH INDIVIDUALLY AND
           COLLECT I HAVELY PLEADED WITH THE -- COLLECTIVELY PLEADED
{END: 1998/09/15 TIME: 11-00 , Tue.  105TH SENATE, SECOND SESSION}