Andrea:

I am also kind of busy, so I will be brief. Maybe I am off, since I did
my Master's Thesis on this subject in the 90s and the terminology may
have changed. I understand aphasia as a broad category of disruptions in
the brain's ability to process language 

I will attempt a brief explanation. Receptive aphasia known as
Werneike's aphasia is a disruption in the ability to make sense of
sounds. So, a person may not be able to produce intelligible statements,
but their speech will likely be fluid. In Brocca's Aphasia, or
expressive aphasia, the person is able to understand oral language but
there is a disruption in the motor process to turn thought into words. 

Dyslexia is a difficulty reading and it is connected to the brains
ability to process words. This may manifest itself into two forms.
Visual and auditory dyslexias. Images and pictographs (Chinese) are
processed in the occipital lobe while alphabetic words are often
processed in the wernieke's area of the brain. A short circuit between
these two areas, or between the eyes and the brain, or between the ears
and the brain may result in different forms of dyslexia. 

Agraphias and Dysgraphias can be associated to either sensory or motor
processes or receptive, expressive dysgraphias. In receptive dysgraphia,
sounds and pictographs are not comprehended, so they cannot be expressed
in print. In expressive disgraphia, there is understanding and
comprehension of print, but a short circuit may prevent the motor
function to allow the hand to write down the word. An extreme form of
expressive dysgraphia would be paralysis. Person can read and understand
but his/her hands will not move. 

Because the brain circuitry crosses over at the neck and the right brain
controls the left side of the body and viceversa, there are very
interesting forms of aphasias. To me, one of the most fascinating one is
called alexia without agraphia. In this instance, a person can write a
word, but cannot read it. 

Specifically, what happens is that the person has words stored in the
brain. The person can write any of these words. However, if the person
tries to read the word, he will not be able to store the image of the
word in the brain in order to be able to write it. However, if the
person hears a word, since sounds are processed in a different area of
the brain, the person will be able to write the word down. 

Dyscalculia is more complex because elements of math (and music) are
supposed to be processed in the right hemisphere of the brain, while
aphasias are superficially associated to the left hemisphere. So,
dyscalculia can be present in the absence of dyslexia. 

Total aphasics can be math geniuses and great artists. I will not go
into the right's brain role in aphasias cause it would make this too
long.   

Anyways. While scientific discoveries change regularly, all this may
have changed. However, every so often I give a cursory scan at the
language processing literature and the above does not appear to have
changed that much since the 90s.

Andres     


-----Original Message-----
From: povertyracewomen-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:povertyracewomen-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Andrea Wilder
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 8:02 AM
To: The Poverty, Race,Women and Literacy Discussion List
Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 392] Re: PovertyRaceWomen Digest, Vol 3,
Issue 75

Andres,

I think you are off in some of  your statement, but I may not have time 
to go into this in great depth.  Aphasias are usually receptive and 
expressive.  Receptive:  "The child with a generalized deficit  in 
auditory learning hears, but does not interpret what he [and she] 
hears.  He [and she] understands neither spoken words  nor 
environmental sounds."  Expressive aphasia"They demonstrate  good 
ability on measures  of picture identification and reading readiness 
tests which require  only pointing or marking, but if asked to name the 
pictures or to describe an event, they cannot do so."  Quotes are from 
Johnson and Myfkebust.  Dyslexia, dysgraphia, dyscalculia are not 
aphasias;  where did you get your information?  They are problems in 
circuitry, and can to some degree be overcome by lots of practice,  
which creates  new neural circuits.  I worked with a girl diagnosed 
with receptive aphasia, and by setting up classroom situations  which 
should have tested receptive aphasia, changed the diagnosis to 
expressive aphasia.  "Kari' was able to learn simple phrases that 
guided her through social interactions and enabled her to manage 
somewhat on her own.

I don't know if ADD has now been collapsed into ADHD, perhaps  you 
know.  ADHD is an extremely complex problem, associated with multiple 
deficits in brain functioning, much more than neurotransmitter deficit 
is  indicated.

I am still working on Thoreau and can't really get back to do a deeper 
analysis of these problems at just this time, sorry.  Anybody trying to 
understand the etiology of these deficits  needs to be patient and 
focused in hunting down the most useful information.  These are not 
easy topics.

Andrea

On Jan 24, 2007, at 1:13 PM, Muro, Andres wrote:


> Andrea et al:

>

> Dyslexia, Dysgraphia and Dyscalculia are various forms of aphasias.

> Aphasias are related to damage of different areas of the cortex. This

> affects the chemistry in a given area where the damage is.

>

> However, medication for aphasias has not been that great. Instead,

> assessment of type of aphasia can result in interventions that can

help

> people overcome difficulties. Combination of physical therapy with (in

> some cases) medication can have the best results.

>

> ADD, ADHD and other anxiety disorders are associated with brain

> chemistry, but not necessarily with damage. Instead, presence or 

> absence

> of certain neurotransmitters can affect mood.

>

> Aphasias are considered learning disabilities, but not mood disorders.

>

> Andres

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: povertyracewomen-bounces at nifl.gov

> [mailto:povertyracewomen-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Andrea Wilder

> Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 12:48 PM

> To: The Poverty, Race,Women and Literacy Discussion List

> Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 386] Re: PovertyRaceWomen Digest, Vol 3,

> Issue 75

>

> Wait a minute--

>

> Dyslexia does not seem to be related to brain chemistry, but to neural

> circuits. There are medications for ADD and ADHD, I am sure there is

> overmedication here, my sureness based on reports of general decrease

> in these problems once school success happens--the reporters are Art

> LaChance on another list and the head of learning disabilities and

> testing at Lesley Unversity.  Dysgraphia and dyscalculia I don't know

> about, but I expect these are due to problems with neural circuits,

> also.

>

> I have personally observed children being put into the wrong teaching

> groups, based on faulty testing.  Ex:  a Hispanic boy with little

> English placed in an LD group.  IEP's are often ridiculously phrased:

> "Johnny will master 80% of spelling words on the weekly spelling tests

> by April 1st."  Also, you can't "cure' brain chemistry, but you can

get

> a better mix through some types of medication.

>

> Because of the diagnostic practices in k-12 I suggest that when

> possible (it rarely is, seemingly) adults be retested and rediagnosed.

> Who mentioned over medication?

>

> I wonder how the people who were famous felt about their mental

> confusions? I wouldn't wish such suffering as we read about on anyone.

> And who knows, maybe these talented people would have produced MORE

if

>   they had had medical help?

>

> I don't think we are talking silver bullet, but I may be wrong.  The

> difficulty in being marginalized is that you may be treated like dirt

> by people in the center, like  the African-Americans were who were

> used for medical experiments.  I've got the reference somewhere if

> anyone needs it, if you do need some info quickly, google "Tuskegee

> experiments."

>

> Andrea

>

>

>

>

> On Jan 23, 2007, at 11:24 AM, Burkett, Barry wrote:

>

>> "The only (idiotic) solution is to test and diagnose VERY CAREFULLY

>> those who seem to need it at the adult level."

>>

>> Not trying to ruffle feathers, but I think I am misunderstanding the

>> quoted statement.  If a child needs to be medicated for Dyslexia,

ADD,

>> ADHD, Dysgraphia and Dyscalculia than that person will also need to

be

>> medicated when an adult, because Dyslexia, ADD, ADHD, Dysgraphia and

>> Dyscalculia are (from my understanding) related to brain chemistry...

>> which cannot be "cured."

>>

>> I am curious as to whether this discussion of gender/racial

>> marginalization is because we as people want a "silver bullet."  Why

> do

>> we want people medicated to the norm?  I am not saying that people

>> should not be medicated, but why treat differences that have given us

>> great inventors, artists and scholars?

>>

>> As educators we know that one cannot instruct all students in the

same

>> manner, is science now discovering the same is true when "curing"

> them?

>> Then, if science is learning the importance of individuality, is the

>> American experiment of equality working where we are recognizing that

>> people are different, even inside of gender and race, and that those

>> differences are okay and important?

>>

>> -----Original Message-----

>> From: povertyracewomen-bounces at nifl.gov

>> [mailto:povertyracewomen-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Andrea Wilder

>> Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 8:26 PM

>> To: The Poverty, Race,Women and Literacy Discussion List

>> Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 383] Re: PovertyRaceWomen Digest, Vol 3,

>> Issue 75

>>

>> The opportunities for misdiagnosis are legion, I've been there, know

>> about it, have seen this in action in a very large city middle

school.

>>

>> The only (idiotic) solution is to test and diagnose VERY CAREFULLY

>> those who seem to need it at the adult level.  Also, teachers should

>> themselves know what to look for.

>>

>> Andrea

>> On Jan 22, 2007, at 5:10 PM, Betsy Boggs wrote:

>>

>>> This is especially true for learning difficulties such as ADD/ADHD

> and

>>

>>> dyslexia.  Boys (especially boys of color) for years have been much

>>> more likely to be diagnosed as having ADD/ADHD. And yet recent

>>> research indicates that ADD/ADHD affects girls just as often,

> however,

>>

>>> the symptoms often times look different than in boys. Because girls

>>> don't usually have the same behavior issues, they frequently go

>>> undiagnosed and therefore untreated and fail to receive any help. I

>>> see many girls at the Community College that I know have some kind

of

>>> learning difference, but who report that they have never been tested

>>> or diagnosed, and yet have struggled all through school. If they

>>> weren't a behavior problem in the classroom, they were over looked.

>>> Betsy

>>>

>>> -----Original Message-----

>>> From: povertyracewomen-bounces at nifl.gov

>>> [mailto:povertyracewomen-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of John Warrior

>>> Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 4:28 PM

>>> To: povertyracewomen at nifl.gov

>>> Subject: Possible Spam:[PovertyRaceWomen 379] Re: PovertyRaceWomen

>>> Digest, Vol 3, Issue 75

>>>

>>> Sadly, the problem extends beyond heart attacks. The world of

>>> psychology has had to reevaluate how some disorders are categorized

> as

>>

>>> being most often found in either males or females. Instead, it may

be

>>> that the prevalence of the disorder in the other gender is

>>> under-reported, mostly due to misdiagnosis. This started when they

>>> realized that men were suffering from eating disorders just like

>>> women. So, anorexia and bulimia was no longer for women only. This

>>> raised the question, well what about all of the disorders that we

> feel

>>

>>> are common only in men. Some of these issues may be addressed when

> the

>>

>>> APA publishes the DSM-V.

>>>

>>> So, we need to ensure that diagnostics are asexual and not

> predisposed

>>

>>> for one gender or the other. Imagine being the man who develops

> breast

>>

>>> cancer or the woman who has a heart attack and you or a loved one

> dies

>>

>>> because of the misdiagnosis. Put your self in the position of

someone

>>> suffering from a mental disorder who goes undiagnosed because they

> are

>>

>>> the wrong gender.

>>>

>>> John

>>>

>>>

>>> -----Original Message-----

>>> From: povertyracewomen-bounces at nifl.gov

>>> [mailto:povertyracewomen-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of

>>> povertyracewomen-request at nifl.gov

>>> Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 11:00 AM

>>> To: povertyracewomen at nifl.gov

>>> Subject: PovertyRaceWomen Digest, Vol 3, Issue 75

>>>

>>> Send PovertyRaceWomen mailing list submissions to

>>> 	povertyracewomen at nifl.gov

>>>

>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit

>>> 	http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen

>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to

>>> 	povertyracewomen-request at nifl.gov

>>>

>>> You can reach the person managing the list at

>>> 	povertyracewomen-owner at nifl.gov

>>>

>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific

>>> than "Re: Contents of PovertyRaceWomen digest..."

>>>

>>>

>>> Today's Topics:

>>>

>>>    1. [PovertyRaceWomen 377] Re: PovertyRaceWomen Digest, Vol 3,

>>>       Issue 74 (Bertha Mo)

>>>

>>>

>>>

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

>>>

>>> Message: 1

>>> Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 09:08:09 -0500 (EST)

>>> From: Bertha Mo <bertiemo at yahoo.com>

>>> Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 377] Re: PovertyRaceWomen Digest, Vol 3,

>>> 	Issue 74

>>> To: povertyracewomen at nifl.gov

>>> Message-ID: <544122.16193.qm at web30006.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

>>>

>>> Heart Attack Symptoms

>>>

>>> It's not just that heart attack symptoms in women are not

recognized.

>>> The

>>> symptoms are ignored by people in the ER.  A few years ago, Oprah

had

>>> three women on her show who all had heart attacks and were sent home

>>> from the ER.

>>> There are many studies about how depending on ethnic/race, gender,

>>> class, people were differentially treated at ER, hospital, clinic.

>>>

>>> Oprah's very interesting intervention was to have Dr. Dean Ornish on

>>> the program to talk about prevention.

>>>

>>> Best,

>>>

>>> Bertie Mo

>>> povertyracewomen-request at nifl.gov wrote: Send PovertyRaceWomen

> mailing

>>

>>> list submissions to  povertyracewomen at nifl.gov

>>>

>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit

>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen

>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to

>>> povertyracewomen-request at nifl.gov

>>>

>>> You can reach the person managing the list at

>>> povertyracewomen-owner at nifl.gov

>>>

>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific

>>> than "Re: Contents of PovertyRaceWomen digest..."

>>>

>>>

>>> Today's Topics:

>>>

>>>    1. [PovertyRaceWomen 375] Recruiting and enrolling low-literate

>>>       adults (David Rosen)

>>>    2. [PovertyRaceWomen 376] Re: PovertyRaceWomen Digest, Vol 3,

>>>       Issue 32 (reply to Andrea) (Andrea Wilder)

>>>

>>>

>>>

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

>>>

>>> Message: 1

>>> Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 21:54:56 -0500

>>> From: David Rosen

>>> Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 375] Recruiting and enrolling

low-literate

>>

>>> adults

>>> To: Women and Literacy Discussion List The Poverty Race

>>>

>>>

>>> Message-ID: <1FFAAD54-85DA-4B0F-B173-B1A8A11DF465 at comcast.net>

>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed

>>>

>>> Poverty, Race and Women Discussion Colleagues,

>>>

>>> A colleague has asked me to speak to a group of adult literacy

>>> education teachers about how to serve "hard-to-reach," low-literate

>>> adults.  I solicit your help in answering this question. I am

>>> interested in hearing about your experience in "recruiting" or

>>> enrolling "hard-to-reach" adults with low literacy skills. I am also

>>> interested in hearing from adult learners, some of whom may be in

> your

>>

>>> classes or may be people you tutor, some of whom may be colleagues

on

>>> this list.  Perhaps you could share this question with teachers you

>>> work with and post their responses or their learners' responses, or

>>> they could reply directly on this list or to me by e-mail.

>>>

>>> Of course, "hard-to-reach" could mean many things.  What does it

mean

>>> to you? And _serving_ hard-to-reach, low-literate adults might be an

>>> important part of the answer to this question.  For example, if one

> of

>>

>>> the reasons adults with low literacy (or numeracy) skills don't step

>>> forward for help is because they are hiding their reading writing or

>>> numeracy disabilities or difficulties, then they will be reluctant

to

>>> come to classes in their community where others would find out.

>>>

>>> So, from your experience, who are  "hard-to-reach"  low-literate

>>> adults, and what has been effective in recruiting and enrolling

them?

>>>

>>> Thanks for your help.

>>>

>>> David J. Rosen

>>> djrosen at comcast.net

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> ------------------------------

>>>

>>> Message: 2

>>> Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 08:39:20 -0500

>>> From: Andrea Wilder

>>> Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 376] Re: PovertyRaceWomen Digest, Vol 3,

>>> Issue 32 (reply to Andrea)

>>> To: "The Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy Discussion List"

>>>

>>>

>>> Message-ID: <920bbef1578bd351effe738ff787c660 at comcast.net>

>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

>>>

>>> Kearney--

>>>

>>> No problem--turns out that (some) women have been misdiagnosed due

to

>>> different physical patterns/symptoms of heart attacks.  Women's

>>> symptoms are more diffuse.  Quickness in decoding symptoms is

related

>>> to  increases in life expectancy after heart attacks.

>>>

>>> Andrea

>>>

>>> Sorry my wording is so clumsy, I'm not quite going this morning.

>>>

>>> aw

>>>

>>> On Jan 21, 2007, at 6:49 PM, Kearney Lykins wrote:

>>>

>>>> Andrea,

>>>>

>>>> Concerning,? "male/female differences in heart attack symptoms."

> What

>>>

>>>> about them?? Defining medical symptoms and such is part of

> practicing

>>>

>>>> medicine. I think I am missing the nature of your question, and?

how

>>>> it relates to the topic of supposed gender bias in the sciences.

>>>>

>>>> ?Kearney

>>>> ?

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> ----- Original Message ----

>>>> From: Andrea Wilder

>>>> To: "The Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy Discussion List"

>>>>

>>>

>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 1:47:38 PM

>>>> Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 364] Re: PovertyRaceWomen Digest, Vol 3,

>>>> Issue 32 (reply to Andres Muro)

>>>>

>>>> Kearney,

>>>>

>>>> What about male/female differences in heart attack symptoms???The

>>>> female symptoms have only recently been described.??I don't know

who

>>>> "discovered" the difference, male or female.

>>>>

>>>> Social science is built on

> 1)????description??2)????prediction.??That

>>>

>>>> is,

>>>> description in the aid of prediction. It is based on the discovery

> of

>>

>>>> patterns in data.??Someone "observed/"discovered that women showed

>>>> different symptom patterns.

>>>>

>>>> The same for Gilligan's work--she noticed that half the sample

> showed

>>

>>>> different??patterns--women.??I'm only talking about observation,

>>>> here, not prediction.

>>>>

>>>> If we are trying to find "truth," the 2+2 variety, then we must

keep

>>>> on--with the scientific method, which says really that "truth" may

> be

>>

>>>> provisional, we have to keep conclusions open.??the scientific

> method

>>

>>>> thus operates as a working principle.

>>>>

>>>> I have a favorite saying "Two Crows Denies??T his."??Google it.

>>>>

>>>> I think list servs??like this have great merit in that everybody is

>>>> given space when just a few simple rules are followed.??So it is

>>>> possible to say, Nope, I don't agree, and??here is why.??This is

the

>>>> Two??Crows response that??must be attended to if an accurate

picture

>>> is

>>>> to be drawn.

>>>>

>>>> Depending on some characteristic, and it may be gender, different

>>> facts

>>>> may be spotted.

>>>>

>>>> Andrea

>>>>

>>>> On Jan 20, 2007, at 1:04 PM, Kearney Lykins wrote:

>>>>

>>>>> Concerning supposed gender bias in academia:

>>>>>

>>>>> ?

>>>>>

>>>>> I wrote: "None of my courses in mathematics, physics, chemistry,

>>>>> biology, astronomy, and agronomy could be said to have had any

>>>> gender-

>>>>> or race-specific leanings.?The subject matter simply was not

>>> amenable

>>>>> to such predispositions."

>>>>>

>>>>> ?

>>>>>

>>>>> What I mean by that is that there is no such thing as a male or

>>>> female

>>>>> science. Sure, science is a social process that is ?constructed?

by

>>>>> flesh and blood participants, and historically those participants

>>>> have

>>>>> been overwhelmingly male. And we are beginning to understand, to

> the

>>

>>>>> dismay of some scientists, that science is less objective than it

>>> was

>>>>> once perceived to be; that science has a rhetorical dimension. But

>>>>> that doesn?t make the scientific method or its findings an

>>> inherently

>>>>> male product. It doesn?t change the shape of a galaxy or the

>>>> molecular

>>>>> weight of an atom. It doesn?t make 2 + 2 anything but 4.

>>>>>

>>>>> ?

>>>>>

>>>>> Regardless, to study the influence of female scientists vs male

>>>>> scientists is not the domain of the pure sciences. It is the

domain

>>>

>>>> of

>>>>> sociology, or the philosophy of science, or the history of

science,

>>>>> the rhetoric of science etc? But I do think it is interesting to

>>>>> ponder whether science would have turned out any differently had

>>>> women

>>>>> been more involved in its development, and whether the essential

>>>> taste

>>>>> of an apple pie is dependent upon the chromosomes of the baker.

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> Enjoying this discussion,

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> Kearney Lykins

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> ----- Original Message ----

>>>>> From: Andrew Pleasant

>>>>> To: "The Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy Discussion List"

>>>>>

>>>

>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 11:29:09 PM

>>>>> Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 336] Re: PovertyRaceWomen Digest, Vol

3,

>>>>> Issue 32 (reply to Andres Muro)

>>>>>

>>>>> Hi,

>>>>>

>>>>> Writing in response to the commonly encountered suggestion:??"None

>>> of

>>>>> my courses in mathematics, physics, chemistry, biology, astronomy,

>>>> and

>>>>> agronomy could be said to have had any gender- or race-specific

>>>>> leanings.??The subject matter simply was not amenable to such

>>>>> predispositions."

>>>>>

>>>>> I have not seen the reading lists for these courses. I wonder if

>>> they

>>>>> included writings by women like Rachel Carson, Sophia Brahe,

>>> Rosalind

>>>>> Franklin, Jane Colden, Jane Lubchenco, Barbara McClintock, Marie

>>>>> Curie, or Sofia Kovalevskia? I hope so, but I admit I am

skeptical.

>>>>>

>>>>> We cannot know for certain that the western and now dominant idea

> of

>>

>>>>> 'what science is' would differ if it were more inclusive. That is

> an

>>

>>>>> experiment we cannot run.

>>>>>

>>>>> We do know with certainty that only white men were allowed in

> Robert

>>

>>>>> Boyle's community of peers. These men were empowered to validate

>>>>> science by witnessing the experimental method in action. They

>>>>> established the model for what we now call science. I'll bet Boyle

>>>> was

>>>>> included in the course readings, but was Hobbes (who disagreed

with

>>>>> Boyle and many suggest was actually correct)?

>>>>>

>>>>> We also know for certain that many female and deserving scientists

>>>>> were and are not equally supported by the scientific community as

>>>>> compared to their male counterparts (overall). This continues

> today.

>>>>> Look at Ph.D. rates in the sciences in U.S. universities, the data

>>>>> underpinning the U.S. National Institute of Health's need to

create

>>>>> efforts to ensure that women and minorities are included in all

>>> human

>>>>> subject research, recent comments from the now ex-president of

>>>> Harvard

>>>>> University and resulting controversy, Rosalind Franklin, the

>>>> responses

>>>>> to Rachel Carson within and from outside of the scientific

>>> community,

>>>>> etc.

>>>>>

>>>>> We may also be able to dig further into the notion that "The

> subject

>>

>>>>> matter simply was not amenable to such predispositions." That is a

>>>> bit

>>>>> vague. I'd ask, is this statement grounded in a view that science

> is

>>

>>>>> an unbiased route to truth? (E.g., Karl Popper, logical

>>> rationalists)

>>>>>

>>>>> If so, there is a large, peer-reviewed, and active research field

>>>> that

>>>>> seems to have quite convincingly demonstrated that science is a

>>>> social

>>>>> process. A social process inherently includes human

self-interests,

>>>>> personal leanings and curiosities, social disputes, power

> relations,

>>

>>>>> biases,??and a host of other influences. While no one can exactly

>>>>> demonstrate how science would be different through broader

>>> inclusion,

>>>>> there is sound evidence that science is the result of who was and

> is

>>

>>>>> working within science as well as who controls the funding for

>>>>> science.

>>>>>

>>>>> This does not necessarily weaken the validity of science (a

>>> different

>>>>> issue altogether), but there is very strong evidence that science

> is

>>

>>>>> definitely "amenable to such predispositions".

>>>>>

>>>>> fwiw as always, (and apologies for not having the time to write a

>>>>> shorter, more readable reply)

>>>>>

>>>>> Andrew

>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------

>>>>> National Institute for Literacy

>>>>> Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list

>>>>> PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov To unsubscribe or change your

> subscription

>>

>>>>> settings, please go to

>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail

for

>>>>> Mobile. Get

>>>>> started.----------------------------------------------------

>>>>> National Institute for Literacy

>>>>> Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list

>>>>> PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov To unsubscribe or change your

> subscription

>>

>>>>> settings, please go to

>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen

>>>> Kearney,

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> What about male/female differences in heart attack symptoms???The

>>>> female symptoms have only recently been described.??I don't know

who

>>>> "discovered" the difference, male or female.

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> Social science is built on

> 1)????description??2)????prediction.??That

>>>

>>>> is,

>>>> description in the aid of prediction. It is based on the discovery

> of

>>

>>>> patterns in data.??Someone "observed/"discovered that women showed

>>>> different symptom patterns.

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> The same for Gilligan's work--she noticed that half the sample

> showed

>>

>>>> different??patterns--women.??I'm only talking about observation,

>>>> here, not prediction.

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> If we are trying to find "truth," the 2+2 variety, then we must

keep

>>>> on--with the scientific method, which says really that "truth" may

> be

>>

>>>> provisional, we have to keep conclusions open.??the scientific

> method

>>

>>>> thus operates as a working principle.

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> I have a favorite saying "Two Crows Denies??T his."??Google it.??

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> I think list servs??like this have great merit in that everybody is

>>>> given space when just a few simple rules are followed.??So it is

>>>> possible to say, Nope, I don't agree, and??here is why.??This is

the

>>>> Two??Crows response that??must be attended to if an accurate

picture

>>>> is to be drawn.??

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> Depending on some characteristic, and it may be gender, different

>>>> facts may be spotted.

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> Andrea

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> On Jan 20, 2007, at 1:04 PM, Kearney Lykins wrote:

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>> ArialConcerning

>>>> supposed gender bias in academia:

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>> Arial?> fontfamily>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>> ArialI wrote: "None of my

>>>> courses in mathematics, physics, chemistry, biology, astronomy, and

>>>> agronomy could be said to have had any gender- or race-specific

>>>> leanings.?The subject matter simply was not amenable to such

>>>> predispositions."

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>> Arial?> fontfamily>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>> ArialWhat I mean by that is

>>>> that there is no such thing as a male or female science. Sure,

>>>> science is a social process that is ?constructed? by flesh and

blood

>>>> participants, and historically those participants have been

>>>> overwhelmingly male. And we are beginning to understand, to the

>>>> dismay of some scientists, that science is less objective than it

> was

>>

>>>> once perceived to be; that science has a rhetorical dimension. But

>>>> that doesn?t make the scientific method or its findings an

> inherently

>>

>>>> male product. It doesn?t change the shape of a galaxy or the

>>>> molecular weight of an atom. It doesn?t make 2 + 2 anything but 4.

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>> Arial?> fontfamily>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>> ArialRegardless, to study the

>>>> influence of female scientists vs male scientists is not the domain

>>>> of the pure sciences. It is the domain of sociology, or the

>>>> philosophy of science, or the history of science, the rhetoric of

>>>> science etc? But I do think it is interesting to ponder whether

>>>> science would have turned out any differently had women been more

>>>> involved in its development, and whether the essential taste of an

>>>> apple pie is dependent upon the chromosomes of the baker.

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>> ArialEnjoying this

>>>> discussion,

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>> ArialKearney

>>>> Lykins

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>> Times New Roman-----

>>>> Original Message ----

>>>>

>>>>

>>> Times New RomanFrom: Andrew

>>>> Pleasant <

>>>>

>>>>

>>> Times New RomanTo: "The

>>>> Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy Discussion List"

>>>> <

>>>

>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>> Times New RomanSent:

>>>> Wednesday, January 17, 2007 11:29:09 PM

>>>>

>>>>

>>> Times New RomanSubject:

>>>> [PovertyRaceWomen 336] Re: PovertyRaceWomen Digest, Vol 3, Issue 32

>>>> (reply to Andres Muro)

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>> Times New

>>>> RomanHi,

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>> Times New RomanWriting in

>>>> response to the commonly encountered suggestion:??"None of

>>>>

>>>>

>>> Times New Romanmy courses

>>>> in mathematics, physics, chemistry, biology, astronomy,

>>>> and

>>>>

>>>>

>>> Times New Romanagronomy

>>>> could be said to have had any gender- or

>>>> race-specific

>>>>

>>>>

>>> Times New

>>>> Romanleanings.??The

>>>> subject matter simply was not amenable to

>>>> such

>>>>

>>>>

>>> Times New

>>>> Romanpredispositions."> fontfamily>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>> Times New RomanI have not

>>>> seen the reading lists for these courses. I wonder if

>>>> they

>>>>

>>>>

>>> Times New Romanincluded

>>>> writings by women like Rachel Carson, Sophia Brahe,

>>>> Rosalind

>>>>

>>>>

>>> Times New RomanFranklin,

>>>> Jane Colden, Jane Lubchenco, Barbara McClintock,

>>>> Marie

>>>>

>>>>

>>> Times New RomanCurie, or

>>>> Sofia Kovalevskia? I hope so, but I admit I am

>>>> skeptical.

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>> Times New RomanWe cannot

>>>> know for certain that the western and now dominant idea

>>>> of

>>>>

>>>>

>>> Times New Roman'what

>>>> science is' would differ if it were more inclusive. That is

>>>> an

>>>>

>>>>

>>> Times New Romanexperiment

>>>> we cannot run.

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>> Times New RomanWe do know

>>>> with certainty that only white men were allowed in

>>>> Robert

>>>>

>>>>

>>> Times New RomanBoyle's

>>>> community of peers. These men were empowered to

>>>> validate

>>>>

>>>>

>>> Times New Romanscience by

>>>> witnessing the experimental method in action.

>>>> They

>>>>

>>>>

>>> Times New Romanestablished

>>>> the model for what we now call science. I'll bet Boyle

>>>> was

>>>>

>>>>

>>> Times New Romanincluded in

>>>> the course readings, but was Hobbes (who disagreed

>>>> with

>>>>

>>>>

>>> Times New RomanBoyle and

>>>> many suggest was actually correct)?

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>> Times New RomanWe also know

>>>> for certain that many female and deserving

>>>> scientists

>>>>

>>>>

>>> Times New Romanwere and are

>>>> not equally supported by the scientific community

>>>> as

>>>>

>>>>

>>> Times New Romancompared to

>>>> their male counterparts (overall). This continues

>>>> today.

>>>>

>>>>

>>> Times New RomanLook at

>>>> Ph.D. rates in the sciences in U.S. universities, the

>>>> data

>>>>

>>>>

>>> Times New Romanunderpinning

>>>> the U.S. National Institute of Health's need to

>>>> create

>>>>

>>>>

>>> Times New Romanefforts to

>>>> ensure that women and minorities are included in all

>>>> human

>>>>

>>>>

>>> Times New Romansubject

>>>> research, recent comments from the now ex-president of

>>>> Harvard

>>>>

>>>>

>>> Times New RomanUniversity

>>>> and resulting controversy, Rosalind Franklin, the

>>>> responses

>>>>

>>>>

>>> Times New Romanto Rachel

>>>> Carson within and from outside of the scientific

>>>> community,

>>>>

>>>>

>>> Times New

>>>> Romanetc.

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>> Times New RomanWe may also

>>>

>>> === message truncated ===

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> -------------- next part --------------

>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

>>> URL:

>>> http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/povertyracewomen/attachments/20070122/

>>> 1631

>>> 7fb1

>>> /attachment-0001.html

>>>

>>> ------------------------------

>>>

>>> ----------------------------------------------------

>>> National Institute for Literacy

>>> Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list

>>> PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov

>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen

>>>

>>> End of PovertyRaceWomen Digest, Vol 3, Issue 75

>>> ***********************************************

>>>

>>> ----------------------------------------------------

>>> National Institute for Literacy

>>> Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list

>>> PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov

>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen

>>>

>>>

>>> ----------------------------------------------------

>>> National Institute for Literacy

>>> Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list

>>> PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov

>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen

>>>

>>

>> ----------------------------------------------------

>> National Institute for Literacy

>> Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list

>> PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov

>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen

>> ----------------------------------------------------

>> National Institute for Literacy

>> Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list

>> PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov

>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen

>>

>

> ----------------------------------------------------

> National Institute for Literacy

> Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list

> PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov

> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen

> ----------------------------------------------------

> National Institute for Literacy

> Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list

> PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov

> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 

> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen

>


----------------------------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list
PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen