ADDRESSED IN CHAIRMAN ROTH'S LEGISLATION. SPECIFICALLY IN THIS
           BILL THERE IS A PROVISION THAT WILL E-- THAT WOULD ELIMINATE
           THE FAILURE TO PAY PENALTY WHILE THE TAXPAYER IS IN INSTALLMENT
           AGREEMENT. MR. PRESIDENT, MY HEARING IN TOLEDO, OHIO, A FEW
           WEEKS AGO FOCUSED NOT JUST ON REFORMING THE WAY THE I.R.S. DOES
           BUSINESS BUT ALSO ON FUNDAMENTAL REFORM OF A TAX CODE ITSELF.
           LET ME JUST SAY AS I TRAVEL MY HOME STATE OF OHIO, AS I'M SURE
           MY COLLEAGUE FROM GEORGIA HAS THE SAME EXPERIENCE IN GEORGIA,

           THERE IS TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF INTEREST IN MEANINGFUL AND TRUE
           AND LEGITIMATE, FUNDAMENTAL TAX CODE REFORM. I HEARD FROM
           NUMBER OF OHIOANS ON THEIR VIEW TO MAKE THE TAX CODE
           LEGISLATION BURDENSOME ON FAMILIES. I HAVE HEARD FROM TERRY
           MCCLURE A 35 YEAR OLD FARMER FROM POLAND COUNTY IN OHIO IN THE
           NORTHWESTERN PART OF OUR STATE. WITH HIS FATHER, TERRY OPERATES
           A 2,500 ACRE FARM, THEY RAISE SOYBEANS CORN AND WHEAT. THE FARM

           HAS BEEN IN HIS FAMILY FOR FIVE GENERATIONS. TERRY AND HIS
           FAMILY UNDERSTANDABLY CONCERNED WITH THE DIFFICULTY OF PASSING
           THE FARM ON TO FUTURE GENERATIONS WITHOUT LOSING LARGE PARTS OF
           THAT FARM TO THE EVEN STATE TAX. THEY, LIKE SO MANY FAMILY
           FARMERS WOULD LIKE TO PASS THE FARMLAND, THEIR LIVING, THEIR
           HERITAGE, ON TO THEIR KIDS AND GRANDKIDS. HOWEVER, BECAUSE THE
           FARM ACREAGE IS THEIR LARGEST ASSET THE EFFECT. ESTATE TAX
           COULD VERY WELL BE DEVASTATING. WE ALSO HEARD THE TESTIMONY OF

           ROBERT KUNERR FORMER PRESIDENT AND GENERAL MANAGER OF KUNEER
           FARMS A 300 COW DAIRY FARM IN WILLIAMS COUNTY IN THE NORTHWEST
           E. WESTERN PART OF OHIO. ROBERT AND HIS BROTHER OWN THE FARMING
           OPERATIONS JOINTLY UNTIL HIS BROTHER'S FAMILY WANT TODAY SELL
           THEIR HALF OF THE BUSINESS. MOST OF THE LAND HAD BEEN HELD FOR
           A LONG TIME SO THERE WAS APPRECIABLE CAPITAL GAINS ON THE
           PROPERTY. AS A RESULT OF THE TAX CONSEQUENCES OF THE SALE, HE
           WAS UNABLE TO PURCHASE THE HALF OF THE BUSINESS THAT WAS BEING
           SOLD BY HIS BROTHER. HE TESTIFIED THAT HIS FAMILY WOULD STILL
           BE IN THE FARMING BUSINESS IF NOT FOR THE TAX CODE. THIS IS

           NOTHING LEGISLATION, MR. PRESIDENT, THAN A TRAGIC SITUATION.
           ONE THAT WILL ONLY CONTINUE TO BE REPEATED TIME AFTER TIME
           AFTER TIME UNTIL THIS CONGRESS TAKES STEPS TO REFORM OUR ESTATE
           TAX LAWS. ED ALT IS ANOTHER EXAMPLE, EGGS VICE PRESIDENT AND
           GENERAL MANAGER OF RICO DELIVERY AND IN TOLEDO, OHIO. HE
           TESTIFIED THE TAX CODE IS SO COMPLICATED AND TIME CONSUMING HE

           IS UNABLE TO COMPLY ON HIS OWN. AS A RESULT HE HIRES A OUTSIDE
           ACCOUNTANT EACH YEAR SO THE BUSINESS, A HIS BUSINESS CAN BE IN
           COMPLIANCE. THE AMOUNT HE SPENT ON ACCOUNTING FIRMS OVER THE
           YEARS, HE SAYS, WOULD HAVE PAID FOR AN ADDITIONAL TWO DELIVERY
           TRUCKS THAT WOULD GENERATE AN ADDITIONAL $75,000 TO $100,000 IN
           INCOME EACH YEAR WHICH WOULD HAVE CREATED NEW JOBS AND
           ADDITIONAL TAX REVENUE FOR THE GOVERNMENT. NEW JOBS FOR OHIO
           FOR OUR COUNTRY WOULD HAVE BEEN CREATED. MR. PRESIDENT, I FOUND

           OUR TOLEDO HEARING BOTH VALUABLE AND INFORMATIVE. WITNESSES
           TOLD US WHAT IT IS LIKE FOR HARD WORKING AVERAGE TAX PAYING
           FAMILIES TO LIVE WITH THE I.R.S. AND TO LIVE UNDER TODAY'S TAX
           CODE. THEY WANT CHANGE. AND WE OWE IT TO THEM TO GET THE
           PROCESS OF CHANGE TRULY UNDERWAY. THE FIRST INSTALLMENT OF THIS
           PROCESS OF CHANGE IS REPRESENTED BY THE IMPORTANT LEGISLATION
           THAT HAS BEEN SPONSORED BY CHAIRMAN ROTH. BUT LET ME STRESS
           THAT THIS IS OF COURSE, MR. PRESIDENT, JUST THE BEGINNING.
           THERE ARE A NUMBER OF VERY INTERESTING IDEAS THAT ARE BEING

           DISCUSSED IN THIS COUNTRY ON HOW TO GENUINELY REALLY REFORM THE
           TAX CODE. I THINK WE NEED TO CONTINUE TO EXPLORE THESE IDEAS
           AND DISCUSS THEM WITH THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. THE TAXPAYERS OF
           THIS COUNTRY KNOW THAT THE TAX CODE IS TOO COMPLEX AND IT IS
           TOO COSTLY. AND THEY WANT TO REPLACE IT WITH A TAX CODE THAT IS
           FAIR, SIMPLE AND HONEST. MR. PRESIDENT, PERHAPS THE MOST SIMPLE
           WAY TO OVERHAUL THE I.R.S. IS TO OVERHAUL THE TAX CODE ITSELF.
           TAXPAYERS SPEND NEARLY $157 BILLION A YEAR JUST TO COMPLY WITH

           THE TAX CODE. THE TAX CODE ALSO COST THE TAXPAYERS A GREAT DEAL
           OF TIME, NOT TO MENTION A GREAT DEAL OF ANGUISH AND A GREAT
           DEAL OF WORRY. IT COSTS AMERICANS AN ESTIMATED $35 -- 5.4
           BILLION HOURS JUST TO COMPLY WITH THE CODE. THE 1040 E-Z FORM,
           THE LEFT COMPLICATED OF THE ALL TAX FORMS, REQUIRES 31 PAGES OF
           INSTRUCTIONS. THAT'S THE E-Z FORM. THE INTER SIGNAL COLD HAS

           OVER 5.5 MILLION WORDS OF LAW AND REGULATIONS AND THE I.R.S.
           SENDS OUT 8 BILLION PAGES OF FORMS AND INSTRUCTIONS EACH YEAR
           AND THE TAX CODE KEEPS GETTING MORE COMPLICATED AND MORE
           COMPLICATED. THE BOTTOM LINE, MR. PRESIDENT, IS THAT WE HAVE A
           TAX CODE THAT AMERICANS RIGHTLY BELIEVE IS COMPLEX, UNFAIR,
           CONFUSING AND PERHAPS EVEN DISHONEST. THESE ARE SOME. REASONS
           THAT I AM A COSPONSOR OF THE TAX CODE TERMINATION ACT WHICH
           WOULD SUNSET THE TAX CODE AT THE END. YEAR 2001, PERMITTH THE

           CONGSS TO WRITE A TAX CODE THAT IS SIMPLE, FAIR, AND HONEST. I
           LOOK FORWARD TO WORKING ON THIS ISSUE THROUGHOUT THIS SESSION
           AND THE YEARS AHEAD IN THE HOPE THAT THE RESULT WILL BE A TAX
           SYSTEM THAT TRULY REPRESENTS THE VALUES OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.
           LET ME AGAIN THANK MY COLLEAGUE FROM GEORGIA FOR PUTTING THIS
           BLOCK OF TIME TOGETHER SO THAT WE CAN COME TO THE FLOOR TODAY
           IN THE UNITED STATES SENATE TO TALK ABOUT AN ISSUE THAT
           GENUINELY CONCERNS ALL AMERICANS, CONCERNS THE PEOPLE OF THE

           STATE OF OHIO AND THE PEOPLE OF GEORGIA, AND IT IS SOMETHING,
           MR. PRESIDENT, THAT IT IS A TIME I THINK WHEN CONGRESS SHOULD
           HEED THE WORDS. AMERICAN PEOPLE. IT IS TIME FOR CHANGE. THANK

           YOU VERY MUCH. I YIELD THE FLOOR. MR. COVERDELL: MR. PRESIDENT?
           
           

           THE PRESIDING OFFICER: THE CHAIR RECOGNIZES THE SENATOR FROM
           GEORGIA.
           

           MR. COVERDELL: I APPRECIATE THE REMARKS BY THE SENATOR FROM
           OHIO, AND HEAR OF HIS HEARING. HE HAS HAD A BUSY MORNING HERE.
           I WANT TO TAKE A SECOND TO COMPLIMENT HIM ON HIS WORK IN TERMS.
           WORKPLACE THAT HE DESCRIBED EARLIER THIS MORNING. THIS IS A
           PIECE HE HAVE LEGISLATION ABOUT VERY COMPLICATED FEDERAL
           PROGRAMS THAT PASSED OUT OF HIS COMMITTEE UNANIMOUSLY. EVERY
           REPUBLICAN EVERY DEMOCRAT. SO IT IS A REAL CREDIT TO THE
           TENACITY OF THE SENATOR FROM OHIO. AND NOW, MR. PRESIDENT, I

           WOULD YIELD UP TO 15 MINUTES AGAIN ON THIS QUESTION OF OVERHAUL
           OF THE I.R.S. TO MY GOOD COLLEAGUE, THE SENATOR FROM WYOMING.
           

           THE PRESIDING OFFICER: THE CHAIR RECOGNIZES THE SENIOR SENATOR
           FROM WYOMING.
           

           MR. THOMAS: THANK YOU, MR. PRESIDENT. I THANK THE SENATOR FROM
           GEORGIA FOR ARRANGING FR TIME TO TALK ABOUT SOMETHING THAT OF
           COURSE IS PROBABLY AS IMPORTANT TO AMERICANS AS ANY ISSUE. IT
           IS PROBABLY GOOD TO TALK ABOUT IT SHORTLY AFTER THE 15TH OF
           APRIL. IT IS ON OUR MINDS, IT SHOULD BE. SO I AM JUST DELIGHTED
           THAT WE ARE AIMED TOWARDS DOING SOMETHING NEXT WEEK, DOING
           SOMETHING THAT ALMOST EVERY ONE ALMOST AGREES NEEDS TO BE DONE,

           AND THAT IS TO MAKE SOME ADJUSTMENT IN THE SYSTEM OF COLLECTION
           OF TAXES. SOME ADJUSTMENTS WITH THE I.R.S. EVERYONE KNOWS THAT
           IT IS NEEDED, BUT IT HAS BEEN NEEDED FOR A GOOD LONG TIME, AND
           YET WE HAVEN'T DONE ANYTHING. WE HAVEN'T DONE ANYTHING ABOUT
           IT. WE HAVE NOW OF COURSE HEARINGS THAT HAVE GONE ON FOR SOME
           TIME BOTH IN THE HOUSE AND IN THE SENATE WHICH HAVE BROUGHT TO
           THE ATTENTION OF EVERYONE, THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, TO THE MEMBERS

           OF CONGRESS, THE NEED TO MAKE CHANGE AND HOPEFULLY IT WILL
           HAPPEN. UP UNTIL NOW IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THIS AGENCY, AS IS THE
           CASE WITH MANY AGENCIES, HAS SORT OF INSULATED THEMSELVES FROM
           PUBLIC OPINION. HAS SORTS EVER SET THEMSELVES ASIDE FROM THE
           MAINSTREAM OF AMERICA. AND FRANKLY THAT'S RELATIVELY EASY TO DO
           IN THE BUREAUCRACY. IT SEEMS TO ME THAT'S ONE OF THE -- ONE OF

           THE REASONS THAT WE NEED SOMEHOW TO GET MORE BE NONBUREAUCRATIC
           INPUT INTO THIS SYSTEM. DO WE NEED TO COLLECT TAXES?
           OF COURSE WE DO. OUR TAX COLLECTORS EVER POPULAR?
           OF COURSE NOT. BUT NEVERTHELESS THERE IS A WAY TO DO THIS JOB
           THAT IS MORE ACCOUNTABLE TO TAXPAYERS, AND THAT IS WHAT WE
           SEEK. I'VE BEEN WORKING VERY HARD AT A NUMBER OF AGENCIES AND

           ONE OF THE THINGS THAT STRIKES ME IN TERMS OF WHAT GOES ON IN
           GOVERNMENT, AS OPPOSED TO THE PRIVATE SECTOR, IS THERE IS NO
           REAL BUILT IN DISCIPLINE. IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR YOU ARE
           COMPETING WITH SOMEBODY, IF YOU DON'T DO THE JOB SOMEBODY ELSE
           DOES IT, SO YOU ARE REQUIRED TO BE RELATIVELY EFFICIENT OR ELSE
           SOMEONE TAKES THE WORK. YOU ARE REQUIRE TODAY PLEASE THE PEOPLE
           YOU SERVE OR THEY GO SOMEWHERE ELSE, AND OF COURSE THAT'S NOT
           THE CASE IN GOVERNMENT. AND PARTICULARLY IN THE CASE OF THE

           I.R.S. SO I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT THAT WE DO THIS. I HAVE BEEN
           INVOLVED IN TRYING TO TAKE ACTIVITIES THAT COULD BETTER BE DONE
           BY CONTRACT AND BY INDIVIDUALS FROM THE PRIVATE SECTOR IN ALL
           PARTS OF GOVERNMENT, BUT I HAVE TO TELL YOU THAT THIS IS ONE
           THAT HAS INSULATED ITSELF A GREAT DEAL, AND WE NEED TO DO
           SOMETHING ABOUT IT. WE FIND THE SAME KIND OF THREATENING, THE
           SAME KIND OF CRIMINAL INTIMIDATION GOING ON IN HCVA IN HEALTH
           CARE AT THE MOMENT. TRYING TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT FRAUD AND

           ABUSE WHICH EVERYONE SUPPORTS, BUT THE IDEA IS TO CHALLENGE
           PEOPLE, TO THREATEN PEOPLE, TO INTIMIDATE PEOPLE INTO DOING IT,
           AND THAT'S NOT THE BEST RESOLUTION. THAT'S NOT THE BEST ANSWER.
           SO WE NEED TO FIND A WAY TO DO THAT. IN MY OPINION THE
           UNDERLYING ISSUE OF COURSE IS THE TAX CODE CODE. ONE OF THE
           PROBLEMS THE I.R.S. HAS IS TO ENFORCE A VERY COMPLICATED CON
           VOLUNTEER LUTED EXCESSIVELY VOLUMINOUS AND DETAILED TAX CODE.

           AND WE NEED TO CHANGE THAT. AND I THINK ALMOST EVERYONE AGAIN
           IS FOR THAT CHANGE, BUT INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH AS YOU TALK ABOUT
           HOW SPECIFICALLY DO YOU CHANGE IT, THEN YOU FIND LESS UNANIMITY
           IN THE FEELING. BUT CHANGING THE TAX CODE IS ONE THING WHICH WE
           MUST DO WHICH WILL HELP IN THE TAX COLLECTION, BUT IT ISN'T THE
           ONLY THING. WE ALSO -- WE ALSO NEED TO MAKE CHANGES IN I.R.S.
           AND THAT'S WHAT IT'S ABOUT. SO THERE WILL BE LOTS OF IDEAS. THE

           COMMITTEE HAS A BILL READY TO GO, THE HOUSE HAS PASSED A BILL.
           I THINK WE I WILL FIND SOME THINGS. THERE WILL BE DIFFICULT
           RELATE VIEWS AS TO HOW TO BEST DO IT. BUT I HOPE THAT WE ARE
           DRIVEN AND I THINK WE WILL BE, DRIVEN BY A VISION OF WHAT WE
           WANT THE RESULTS TO BE, AND THEN IMPLEMENT WHAT IT TAKES TO
           CAUSE THOSE RESULTS TO BE DIFFERENT. AGAIN IN THE CASE OF
           GOVERNMENT AS OPPOSED TO OFTEN IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR WE ARE NOT
           RESULT DRIVEN. WE DON'T MEASURE -- YOU DON'T MEASURE WHAT IT IS

           WE WANT TO ACCOMPLISH. WE SIMPLY MEASURE THE PROCESS, AND THAT
           ENDS UP NOT DOING WHAT WE WOULD LIKE TO DO. I THINK IT IS FAIR
           TO SAY THAT THE I.R.S. IS OUT OF CONTROL. THE HEARINGS WE HAVE
           CERTAINLY WOULD SUBSTANTIATE THAT. I DON'T THINK MANY PEOPLE
           WOULD ARGUE WITH IT. WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING THAT WILL CAUSE
           THE I.R.S. TO BE MORE ACCOUNTABLE TO TAXPAYERS. AND THIS GOAL
           IS TOO IMPORTANT TO BE PART SAR E. SAN. HOPEFULLY IT WILL NOT
           BE. I HOPE WE DO NOT FIND OURSELVES SMOTHERED WITH EXTRANEOUS

           AMENDMENTS, WITH A BUNCH OF OTHER KINDS OF -- WE OUGHT TO FOCUS
           ON HOW WE MAKE THIS I.R.S. COLLECTION BUSINESS WORK BETTER. AND
           NOT BE DIVERTED USING THIS BILL FOR LOTS OF OTHER THINGS. I
           THINK WE ALSO NEED TO RECOGNIZE THAT THE IRRELEVANT R SENIOR
           REFORM IS A PART OF A CHANGING TAX CULTURE. THAT IS MATURING, I
           BELIEVE IN THIS COUNTRY. CERTAINLY IS MATURING HERE. THIS IS
           ONE OF THE COMPONENTS OF CHANGING THIS WHOLE TAX SCENE IN WHICH

           WE LIVE MAKING IT SIMPLER, FRANKLY REDUCING TAXES, AND MAKE
           BEING THE COLLECTION A SYSTEM THAT IS CONSUMER FRIENDLY AND AT
           THE SAME TIME ENFORCES THE LAW. I THINK WE HAVE TO RECOGNIZE
           THAT THAT'S WHAT IT HAS DONE. SO AGENDA IS SIMPLE AND SHOULD
           INDEED BE SIMPLE. WE HAVE TO ENSURE THE I.R.S. SERVES THE
           AMERICAN PEOPLE AND NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. THAT'S OUR TASK.
           WE NEED TO CONSIDER THIS LEGISLATION OF RESTRUCTURING. AGAIN IT

           IS RT OF INTERESTING THAT AS YOU SEEK TO MAKE SOME CHANGES TO
           PRODUCE DIFFERENT RESULTS IN GOVERNMENT, IT IS VERY DIFFICULT.
           THE REACTION YOU GET ALMOST GENERALLY IS WELL THINGS ARE OKAY,
           WE DON'T NEED TO CHANGE ANYTHING. THERE IS NO INCENTIVE TO
           CHANGE IN THE BUREAUCRACY. AND THAT'S WHAT MAKES IT DIFFICULT.
           I AM HOPEFUL THAT WE CAN MOVE TO DO SOME OF THE THINGS. WE NEED
           TO GIVE SOME CIVILIANS, SOME PEOPLE OUTSIDE. BUREAUCRACY SOME
           OVERSIGHT OF THE ENFORCEMENT SO THAT YOU BRING IN -- YOU BRING

           IN THE VIEW OF CITIZENS, YOU BRING IN THE VIEW OF PEOPLE WITH
           EXPERTISE, SO THAT IN FACT THAT CAN BE MADE HAS PART OF THE
           BUREAUCRACY WHICH DOESN'T AUTOMATICALLY EXIST. WE NEED TO
           REQUIRE THE TERMINATION OF EMPLOYEES THAT HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN
{END: 1998/05/01 TIME: 11-45 , Fri.  105TH SENATE, SECOND SESSION}