Here are the messages between 20070901 and 20070930. 1. HSPF: how to decrease ammonia output from NITRX? 2. RE: HSPF: how to decrease ammonia output from NITRX? 3. Re: HSPF: how to decrease ammonia output from NITRX? 4. Key EPA Web-Based Tools for Watershed Management Self Study Course is Now Available 5. RE: HSPF: how to decrease ammonia output from NITRX? 6. WinHSPF crashes in AUXIL module 7. RE: WinHSPF crashes in AUXIL module 8. RE: WinHSPF crashes in AUXIL module 9. WinHSPF crashes in AUXIL module FTABLE Problem 10. RE: WinHSPF crashes in AUXIL module 11. RE: high simulated runoff volume 12. RE: WinHSPF crashes in AUXIL module 13. RE: FTABLES in the UCI file 14. RE: WinHSPF crashes in AUXIL module 15. RE: WinHSPF crashes in AUXIL module 16. Multiple exits in REACH with HSPF 17. Fw: error when calculating subwatershed parameters 18. a request 19. HHWQ software applications - Re: a request 20. RE: Multiple exits in REACH with HSPF 21. WinHSPF faileds to initialize ----------------------------------------------------------- X-Message-Number: 1 X-lyris-Id: 160138 Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 15:26:04 -0400 From: mcai Subject: HSPF: how to decrease ammonia output from NITRX? Dear All, For one year in my watershed, the total atmospherice deposition of the nitrogen is 18.3lb/ac, about half of them are ammonia. I want to remove all or most of ammonia in the PERLND, because our observed ammonia outflow is close to 0. Even though I raised the first-order plant uptake rate and nitrification rate to unreasonalbe huge, the ammonia outflow from the land cannot be decreased to below 1.2 lb/ac. It looks there is certain critiria in the program to prevent too low ammonia concentration in the land. Do you have any idea what's setting in the program? Do you have any way to decrease ammonia outflow through NITRX module? Thanks in advance, Mei ----------------------------------------------------------- X-Message-Number: 2 X-lyris-Id: 160141 Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 16:23:41 -0400 From: "Tom Jobes" Subject: RE: HSPF: how to decrease ammonia output from NITRX? Mei, A few things to consider...Are your adsorption parms for ammonia appropriate? Do you have ammonia volatilization turned on? Are your atmospheric deposition values in the correct units? What flow component (surface, interflow, baseflow) is the dominant ammonia carrier? If surface, it may be necessary to apply part of the atmospheric deposition directly to the upper layer to represent immediate leaching below the surface layer at a faster rate than the hourly timestep can represent accurately. There is no specific criteria to prevent too low a concentration - rather, I would guess that you have some deposition that washes off too quickly from the surface, before any of the reactions have time to assimilate the ammonia. Perhaps some of the pointers above can help improve your situation. Tom Jobes St Johns River Water Management District tjobes@sjrwmd.com 386-329-4463 -----Original Message----- From: mcai [mailto:mcai@utk.edu]=20 Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 3:26 PM To: Private list for BASINS users Subject: [basinsinfo] HSPF: how to decrease ammonia output from NITRX? Dear All, For one year in my watershed, the total atmospherice deposition of the=20 nitrogen is 18.3lb/ac, about half of them are ammonia. I want to remove all or=20 most of ammonia in the PERLND, because our observed ammonia outflow is close=20 to 0. Even though I raised the first-order plant uptake rate and nitrification=20 rate to unreasonalbe huge, the ammonia outflow from the land cannot be=20 decreased to below 1.2 lb/ac. It looks there is certain critiria in the=20 program to prevent too low ammonia concentration in the land. Do you have any=20 idea what's setting in the program? Do you have any way to decrease ammonia=20 outflow through NITRX module? Thanks in advance, Mei ------------------------------------------ You are currently subscribed to the basinsinfo listserver.=20 To unsubscribe, send the words unsubscribe basinsinfo to lyris@lists.epa.gov OR: Use the listserver's web interface at https://lists.epa.gov/cgi-bin/lyris.pl to manage your=20 subscription. OR Contact the basinsinfo listserver owner at basinsinfo-Owner@lists.epa.gov ------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------------------------- X-Message-Number: 3 X-lyris-Id: 160148 Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 15:21:39 -0700 From: Tony Donigian Subject: Re: HSPF: how to decrease ammonia output from NITRX? Mei -
In addition to, or jointly with, Tom Jobes suggestions, I suggest you look at the standard model output and evaluate the transformation fluxes that contribute NH3 in each soil layer.  This will identify which of the processes are contributing the largest NH3 fluxes and from which soil zone - it will also be a check on your parameterization.

In particular, you should check the mineralization rates that transform Organic N to NH3 - if these are too high, or if your Org N storage is too high it will continue to transform irrespective of other fluxes, and could lead to the relatively constant baseline outflow you mention.

Tony Donigian
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Tony Donigian, P.E., D.WRE

AQUA TERRA Consultants

2685 Marine Way, Suite 1314

Mountain View, CA 94043-1115

650-962-1864; fax 650-962-0706

www.aquaterra.com

 



mcai wrote: 
Dear All,

For one year in my watershed, the total atmospherice deposition of the 
nitrogen is 18.3lb/ac, about half of them are ammonia. I want to remove all or 
most of ammonia in the PERLND, because our observed ammonia outflow is close 
to 0. Even though I raised the first-order plant uptake rate and nitrification 
rate to unreasonalbe huge, the ammonia outflow from the land cannot be 
decreased to below 1.2 lb/ac. It looks there is certain critiria in the 
program to prevent too low ammonia concentration in the land. Do you have any 
idea what's setting in the program? Do you have any way to decrease ammonia 
outflow through NITRX module?

Thanks in advance,
Mei


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----------------------------------------------------------- X-Message-Number: 4 X-lyris-Id: 160151 Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 09:03:38 -0400 From: Partington.Ed@epamail.epa.gov Subject: Key EPA Web-Based Tools for Watershed Management Self Study Course is Now Available I took this course about two weeks ago and I thought it was excellent in describing several of EPA's watershed management on-line tools such as STORET, WQSDB, Envirofacts, and WATERS. The course can be found at http://www.epa.gov/watershed/wacademy/epatools/ EPA/OW/OST/SHPD/RSTSSB/BASINS ----------------------------------------------------------- X-Message-Number: 5 X-lyris-Id: 160154 Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 08:56:46 -0500 From: "Ali Saleh" Subject: RE: HSPF: how to decrease ammonia output from NITRX? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7EFC4.99646CF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 21st Century Watershed Technology: Improving Water Quality and the Environment This is one of a series of highly successful international conferences sponsored by ASABE focusing on water quality. Over the last decade there has been a maturing of watershed science with new research findings and modeling approaches. These new solutions have resolved many of the problems that first faced watershed managers in dealing with water quality and quantity issues, but there are also emerging impediments to watershed assessments and achieving water quality goals. This international symposium 21st CenturyWatershed Technology: Improving Water Quality and Environment will look at emerging problems and new solutions to managing watersheds to meet water quality and quantity standards.=20 This conference provides an opportunity to present paper regarding water quality and quantity issues. There will be also water quality models such as SWAT and APEX workshops and number of technical tours would be provided during this conference. Please mark your colander for this important event. =20 =20 The deadline for submission of abstract is September 30, 2007. =20 To review the Call for Papers and more information regarding this conference visit http://www.asabe.org/meetings/water2008/index.htm or http://www.watershedtech.org ' The conference is scheduled march 29 - April 3 and will be held in conjunction with the University of Concepcion. =20 Continue to watch this website for more updates and information concerning guest speakers, workshops, travel, technical tours, cultural tours and more. If additional questions arise please contact ASABE's Meetings Department at (269) 429-0300. =20 =20 ------------------------ ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7EFC4.99646CF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<= font size=3D4 color=3D"#646b5a" face=3DTahoma>21st Century Watershed Technology:

Improving Water Quality = and the Environment

This is one of a series of highly successful international conferences sponsored by ASABE focusing on water quality. = Over the last decade there has been a maturing of watershed science with new research findings and modeling approaches. These new solutions have = resolved many of the problems that first faced watershed managers in dealing with = water quality and quantity issues, but there are also emerging impediments to watershed assessments and achieving water quality goals. This = international symposium 21st CenturyWatershed Technology: Improving Water Quality and Environment will look at emerging problems and new solutions to managing watersheds to meet water quality and quantity standards. =

This conference provides an opportunity to present = paper regarding water quality and quantity issues. There will be also water = quality models such as SWAT and APEX workshops and number of technical tours = would be provided during this conference. Please mark your colander for this = important event.  

 

The deadline for submission of abstract is September 30, = 2007.

 

To review the Call for Papers and more information = regarding this conference visit http= ://www.asabe.org/meetings/water2008/index.htm  or http://www.watershedtech.org&#= 8217;

The conference is scheduled march 29 – April 3 = and will be held in conjunction with the University of Concepcion.

 

Continue to watch this website for more updates and information concerning guest speakers, workshops, travel, technical = tours, cultural tours and more.  If additional questions arise please = contact ASABE’s Meetings Department at (269) = 429-0300.

 

 

------------------------

------_=_NextPart_001_01C7EFC4.99646CF0-- ----------------------------------------------------------- X-Message-Number: 6 X-lyris-Id: 160259 Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 12:11:36 -0400 From: "Saunders, Bill" Subject: WinHSPF crashes in AUXIL module This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7F0A0.994953FE Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am a new WinHSPF user and am getting this fatal error when I try to execute the model: =20 ************************************************************************ ************ * * * ERROR/WARNING ID: 341 4 * * * * DATE/TIME: 1970/ 1/ 6 5: 0 * * * * RCHRES: 5 * * * * The calculation of relative depth in subroutine AUXIL, using Newton's * * method of successive approximations, did not converge. Probable reason -- * * unusual or bad entries in RCHTAB. Relevant data are: * * * * A B C RDEP1 RDEP2 COUNT * * 435.60 2613.6 ********** ********** ********** 101 * * * =20 ************************************************************************ ************ =20 I set up the wsd, rch, and ptf files using BASINS 3.1. I understand that the values for A and B above should be in acres (surface area), but the RCHTAB values for this RCHRES (5) should not lead to values that high (see the RCHTAB below). Not sure how to determine what the "unusual or bad entries in RCHTAB" are or how to revise them. Has anyone had/seen this problem before?? Any insight would be greatly appreaciated. =20 Dep(ft) Area(acres) Vol (ac-ft) Outflow1 (ft3/s) 0 1.267122E-02 0 0 0.0394 1.484343E-02 5.414883E-04 6.184715E-04 0.3936 3.439331E-02 0.0092623 3.572717E-02 0.492 3.982384E-02 1.291379E-02 5.576654E-02 0.615 0.1221868 2.710781E-02 0.1003669 0.738 0.1357631 4.297173E-02 0.2014786 12.669 1.452665 9.518741 334.3738 24.6 2.769567 34.70646 1877.815 =20 =20 Thanks. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Bill Saunders Applied Technology & Management 360 Thames St., Suite 1B Newport, RI 02840 USA =20 401-841-8901 (phone) 401-841-8903 (fax) http://www.appliedtm.com =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7F0A0.994953FE Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I am a new WinHSPF user and am getting this fatal = error when I try to execute the model:

 

*******************************************************************= *****************

 *          =             &= nbsp;                       &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           *

 *  = ERROR/WARNING ID:   341   4            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;    *

 *          =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;           *

 *  = DATE/TIME: 1970/ 1/ 6  5: 0   =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p; *

 *          =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;           *

 *  RCHRES:     5            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;      *

 *          =             &= nbsp;                   &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;   *

 *  The calculation of relative depth in subroutine AUXIL, using Newton's     =       *

 *  = method of successive approximations, did not converge.  Probable reason --      *

 *  = unusual or bad entries in RCHTAB.  Relevant data are:           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;   *

 *          =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;           *

 *          = A          B          C      RDEP1      = RDEP2  COUNT           &n= bsp;       *

 *   435.60    2613.6     ********** = ********** **********    101           &nbs= p;       *

 *          =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;           *

 *************************************************************= ***********************

 

I set up the wsd, rch, and ptf files using BASINS = 3.1.  I understand that the values for A and B above should be in acres = (surface area), but the RCHTAB values for this RCHRES (5) should not lead to = values that high (see the RCHTAB below).  Not sure how to determine what the “unusual or bad entries in RCHTAB” are or how to revise = them.  Has anyone had/seen this problem before??  Any insight would be = greatly appreaciated.

 

Dep(ft)  = Area(acres)      Vol (ac-ft)         Outflow1 = (ft3/s)

0         = ; 1.267122E-02   = 0          =             0

0.0394  1.484343E-02   = 5.414883E-04   6.184715E-04

0.3936  3.439331E-02   = 0.0092623         = 3.572717E-02

0.492    3.982384E-02   = 1.291379E-02   5.576654E-02

0.615    = 0.1221868         = 2.710781E-02   0.1003669

0.738    = 0.1357631         = 4.297173E-02   0.2014786

12.669  = 1.452665          = 9.518741          = 334.3738

24.6      = 2.769567          = 34.70646          = 1877.815

 

 

Thanks.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<= /p>

Bill Saunders

Applied Technology & = Management

360 = Thames St., Suite 1B

Newport, RI  02840

USA

 

401-841-8901 (phone)

401-841-8903 (fax)

http://www.appliedtm.com

 

------_=_NextPart_001_01C7F0A0.994953FE-- ----------------------------------------------------------- X-Message-Number: 7 X-lyris-Id: 160265 Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 13:29:50 -0400 From: "Tom Jobes" Subject: RE: WinHSPF crashes in AUXIL module This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7F0AB.8727A1CA X-EC0D2A8E-5CB7-4969-9C36-46D859D137BE-PartID: 95CFF2A8-4CF8-41B0-A4B3-716EF9CB5FE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bill, =20 Your FTABLE is truly tiny - it looks like you're overflowing the banks with just a couple of thousand cubic feet of storage. Just because your FTABLE is small doesn't mean that you can't easily overtop it if the drainage area isn't correspondingly tiny. =20 Try turning off all three auxiliary flags in HYDR-PARM1. Then look at the inflow coming in=20 during that hour - I expect you'll see it is far larger than your FTABLE can handle. Probably the cross-section and reach length are much too small for the flow passing through. =20 Hope this helps, =20 Tom Jobes SJRWMD =20 ________________________________ From: Saunders, Bill [mailto:BSaunders@appliedtm.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 12:12 PM To: Private list for BASINS users Subject: [basinsinfo] WinHSPF crashes in AUXIL module I am a new WinHSPF user and am getting this fatal error when I try to execute the model: =20 ************************************************************************ ************ * * * ERROR/WARNING ID: 341 4 * * * * DATE/TIME: 1970/ 1/ 6 5: 0 * * * * RCHRES: 5 * * * * The calculation of relative depth in subroutine AUXIL, using Newton's * * method of successive approximations, did not converge. Probable reason -- * * unusual or bad entries in RCHTAB. Relevant data are: * * * * A B C RDEP1 RDEP2 COUNT * * 435.60 2613.6 ********** ********** ********** 101 * * * =20 ************************************************************************ ************ =20 I set up the wsd, rch, and ptf files using BASINS 3.1. I understand that the values for A and B above should be in acres (surface area), but the RCHTAB values for this RCHRES (5) should not lead to values that high (see the RCHTAB below). Not sure how to determine what the "unusual or bad entries in RCHTAB" are or how to revise them. Has anyone had/seen this problem before?? Any insight would be greatly appreaciated. =20 Dep(ft) Area(acres) Vol (ac-ft) Outflow1 (ft3/s) 0 1.267122E-02 0 0 0.0394 1.484343E-02 5.414883E-04 6.184715E-04 0.3936 3.439331E-02 0.0092623 3.572717E-02 0.492 3.982384E-02 1.291379E-02 5.576654E-02 0.615 0.1221868 2.710781E-02 0.1003669 0.738 0.1357631 4.297173E-02 0.2014786 12.669 1.452665 9.518741 334.3738 24.6 2.769567 34.70646 1877.815 =20 =20 Thanks. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Bill Saunders Applied Technology & Management 360 Thames St., Suite 1B Newport, RI 02840 USA =20 401-841-8901 (phone) 401-841-8903 (fax) http://www.appliedtm.com =20 ------------------------------------------=20 You are currently subscribed to the basinsinfo listserver.=20 To unsubscribe, send the words unsubscribe basinsinfo to lyris@lists.epa.gov=20 OR:=20 Use the listserver's web interface at https://lists.epa.gov/cgi-bin/lyris.pl to manage your=20 subscription.=20 OR=20 Contact the basinsinfo listserver owner at basinsinfo-Owner@lists.epa.gov=20 ------------------------------------------=20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7F0AB.8727A1CA X-EC0D2A8E-5CB7-4969-9C36-46D859D137BE-PartID: A3D5D6BA-3A9D-41F5-AC4E-3AC11590E62C Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bill,
 
Your FTABLE is truly tiny - it looks like = you're=20 overflowing the banks with just a couple
of thousand cubic feet of storage.  Just = because your=20 FTABLE is small doesn't
mean that you can't easily overtop it if the = drainage area=20 isn't correspondingly tiny.
 
Try turning off all three auxiliary flags in=20 HYDR-PARM1.  Then look at the inflow coming in =
during that hour - I expect you'll see it is far=20 larger than your FTABLE can handle.  Probably
the cross-section and reach length are much too = small for=20 the flow passing through.
 
Hope this helps,
 
Tom Jobes
SJRWMD
 

From: Saunders, Bill=20 [mailto:BSaunders@appliedtm.com]
Sent: Thursday, September = 06, 2007=20 12:12 PM
To: Private list for BASINS users
Subject:=20 [basinsinfo] WinHSPF crashes in AUXIL module

I am a new WinHSPF user = and am=20 getting this fatal error when I try to execute the = model:

 

*******************************************************************= *****************

 *          =             &= nbsp;          =20             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           *

 *  = ERROR/WARNING=20 ID:   341  =20 4            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;   =20 *

 *          =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;          =20 *

 *  = DATE/TIME:=20 1970/ 1/ 6  5: 0  =20             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p; *

 *          =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;          =20 *

 * =20 RCHRES:    =20 5            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;     =20 *

 *          =             &= nbsp;      =20             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;   *

 *  The=20 calculation of relative depth in subroutine AUXIL, using=20 Newton's          =20 *

 *  = method of=20 successive approximations, did not converge.  Probable reason=20 --      *

 *  = unusual or bad=20 entries in RCHTAB.  Relevant data=20 are:           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;  =20 *

 *          =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;          =20 *

 *          = =20 A         =20 B         =20 C      RDEP1      = RDEP2 =20 COUNT           &n= bsp;      =20 *

 *  =20 435.60    2613.6     ********** = **********=20 **********   =20 101           &nbs= p;      =20 *

 *          =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;          =20 *

 *************************************************************= ***********************

 

I set up the wsd, rch, and = ptf files=20 using BASINS 3.1.  I understand that the values for A and B above = should be=20 in acres (surface area), but the RCHTAB values for this RCHRES (5) = should not=20 lead to values that high (see the RCHTAB below).  Not sure how to = determine=20 what the “unusual or bad entries in RCHTAB” are or how to = revise them.  Has=20 anyone had/seen this problem before??  Any insight would be greatly = appreaciated.

 

Dep(ft) =20 Area(acres)      Vol=20 (ac-ft)         Outflow1=20 (ft3/s)

0         =20 1.267122E-02   = 0         =20            =20 0

0.0394 =20 1.484343E-02   5.414883E-04   = 6.184715E-04

0.3936 =20 3.439331E-02  =20 0.0092623        =20 3.572717E-02

0.492   =20 3.982384E-02   1.291379E-02   = 5.576654E-02

0.615   =20 0.1221868        =20 2.710781E-02   0.1003669

0.738   =20 0.1357631        =20 4.297173E-02   0.2014786

12.669 =20 1.452665         =20 9.518741         =20 334.3738

24.6     =20 2.769567         =20 34.70646         =20 1877.815

 

 

Thanks.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Bill = Saunders

Applied Technology &=20 Management

360 Thames St., Suite=20 1B

Newport, RI =20 02840

USA

 

401-841-8901=20 (phone)

401-841-8903 = (fax)

http://www.appliedtm.com

 

-------------------------------------= -----=20
You are currently subscribed to the basinsinfo listserver. =

To=20 unsubscribe, send the words unsubscribe basinsinfo to = lyris@lists.epa.gov=20
OR:
Use the listserver's web interface at=20 https://lists.epa.gov/cgi-bin/lyris.pl to manage your
subscription. =
OR=20
Contact the basinsinfo listserver owner at = basinsinfo-Owner@lists.epa.gov=20
------------------------------------------ ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7F0AB.8727A1CA-- ----------------------------------------------------------- X-Message-Number: 8 X-lyris-Id: 160269 Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 14:20:19 -0400 From: "Saunders, Bill" Subject: RE: WinHSPF crashes in AUXIL module This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7F0B2.957F44B7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks, Tom. You are correct, the FTABLE values are small, as is the commensurate drainage area for that RCHRES (9.63 hectare =3D 23.8 = acres). Your suggestions represent some progress for me. When I turn off the auxiliary flags for all 7 of my RCHRES, the model runs for an initial 1-year test. I do get multiple occurrences of the following continuity error for 2 of my reaches, but it doesn't appear to be fatal (at least not for the 1st year): =20 ************************************************************************ ************ * * * ERROR/WARNING ID: 238 1 * * * * The continuity error reported below is greater than 1 part in 1000 and is * * therefore considered high. * * * * Did you specify any "special actions"? If so, they could account for it. * * * * Relevant data are: * * DATE/TIME: 1970/ 1/31 24: 0 * * * * RCHRES : 5 * * * * RELERR STORS STOR MATIN MATDIF * * 0.00837 0.01000 0.01000 1.5890 -1.338E-02 * =20 =20 I have no "special actions" specified. You mentioned to "look at the inflow coming in during that hour". Please excuse my ignorance, but where are the hourly inflows into each RCHRES stored/output?? My *.out file does show monthly entries for each RCHRES and those values are all reasonably small (e.g. just under 1 cfs for the furthest downstream RCHRES). So the flows seem to be within the range that the FTABLE can handle. Still not sure what is contributing to my initial error. Maybe if I can get a look at the hourly timesteps, I can find the point where the model is blowing up...... =20 Bill Saunders ATM-Newport 401-841-8901 =20 ________________________________ From: Tom Jobes [mailto:tjobes@sjrwmd.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 1:30 PM To: Private list for BASINS users Subject: RE: [basinsinfo] WinHSPF crashes in AUXIL module =20 Bill, =20 Your FTABLE is truly tiny - it looks like you're overflowing the banks with just a couple of thousand cubic feet of storage. Just because your FTABLE is small doesn't mean that you can't easily overtop it if the drainage area isn't correspondingly tiny. =20 Try turning off all three auxiliary flags in HYDR-PARM1. Then look at the inflow coming in=20 during that hour - I expect you'll see it is far larger than your FTABLE can handle. Probably the cross-section and reach length are much too small for the flow passing through. =20 Hope this helps, =20 Tom Jobes SJRWMD =20 =20 ________________________________ From: Saunders, Bill [mailto:BSaunders@appliedtm.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 12:12 PM To: Private list for BASINS users Subject: [basinsinfo] WinHSPF crashes in AUXIL module I am a new WinHSPF user and am getting this fatal error when I try to execute the model: =20 ************************************************************************ ************ * * * ERROR/WARNING ID: 341 4 * * * * DATE/TIME: 1970/ 1/ 6 5: 0 * * * * RCHRES: 5 * * * * The calculation of relative depth in subroutine AUXIL, using Newton's * * method of successive approximations, did not converge. Probable reason -- * * unusual or bad entries in RCHTAB. Relevant data are: * * * * A B C RDEP1 RDEP2 COUNT * * 435.60 2613.6 ********** ********** ********** 101 * * * =20 ************************************************************************ ************ =20 I set up the wsd, rch, and ptf files using BASINS 3.1. I understand that the values for A and B above should be in acres (surface area), but the RCHTAB values for this RCHRES (5) should not lead to values that high (see the RCHTAB below). Not sure how to determine what the "unusual or bad entries in RCHTAB" are or how to revise them. Has anyone had/seen this problem before?? Any insight would be greatly appreaciated. =20 Dep(ft) Area(acres) Vol (ac-ft) Outflow1 (ft3/s) 0 1.267122E-02 0 0 0.0394 1.484343E-02 5.414883E-04 6.184715E-04 0.3936 3.439331E-02 0.0092623 3.572717E-02 0.492 3.982384E-02 1.291379E-02 5.576654E-02 0.615 0.1221868 2.710781E-02 0.1003669 0.738 0.1357631 4.297173E-02 0.2014786 12.669 1.452665 9.518741 334.3738 24.6 2.769567 34.70646 1877.815 =20 =20 Thanks. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Bill Saunders Applied Technology & Management 360 Thames St., Suite 1B Newport, RI 02840 USA =20 401-841-8901 (phone) 401-841-8903 (fax) http://www.appliedtm.com =20 ------------------------------------------=20 You are currently subscribed to the basinsinfo listserver.=20 To unsubscribe, send the words unsubscribe basinsinfo to lyris@lists.epa.gov=20 OR:=20 Use the listserver's web interface at https://lists.epa.gov/cgi-bin/lyris.pl to manage your=20 subscription.=20 OR=20 Contact the basinsinfo listserver owner at basinsinfo-Owner@lists.epa.gov=20 ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------=20 You are currently subscribed to the basinsinfo listserver.=20 To unsubscribe, send the words unsubscribe basinsinfo to lyris@lists.epa.gov=20 OR:=20 Use the listserver's web interface at https://lists.epa.gov/cgi-bin/lyris.pl to manage your=20 subscription.=20 OR=20 Contact the basinsinfo listserver owner at basinsinfo-Owner@lists.epa.gov=20 ------------------------------------------=20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7F0B2.957F44B7 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thanks, Tom.  You are correct, = the FTABLE values are small, as is the commensurate drainage area for that = RCHRES (9.63 hectare =3D 23.8 acres).  Your suggestions represent some progress = for me.  When I turn off the auxiliary flags for all 7 of my RCHRES, the model = runs for an initial 1-year test.  I do get multiple occurrences of the = following continuity error for 2 of my reaches, but it doesn’t appear to be = fatal (at least not for the 1st year):

 

*******************************************************************= *****************

 *          =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;           *

 *  = ERROR/WARNING ID:   238   1      =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;          *

 *          =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;           *

 *  The = continuity error reported below is greater than 1 part in 1000 and is       *

 *  = therefore considered high.     =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;*

 *          =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;           *

 *  Did = you specify any "special actions"?  If so, they could account = for it.       *

 *          =             &= nbsp;                    &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;  *

 *  = Relevant data are:           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp; *

 *  = DATE/TIME: 1970/ 1/31 24: 0            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;    *

 *          =             &= nbsp;                  &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;    *

 *  = RCHRES :    5            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;      *

 *          =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;           *

 *      RELERR       STORS        STOR       = MATIN      MATDIF           &= nbsp;          *

 *     0.00837     0.01000     0.01000     1.5890   -1.338E-02          &nb= sp;           *

 

 

I have no “special = actions” specified.  You mentioned to “look at the inflow coming in = during that hour”.  Please excuse my ignorance, but where are the = hourly inflows into each RCHRES stored/output??  My *.out file does show = monthly entries for each RCHRES and those values are all reasonably small (e.g. just = under 1 cfs for the furthest downstream RCHRES).  So the flows seem to be = within the range that the FTABLE can handle.  Still not sure what is = contributing to my initial error.  Maybe if I can get a look at the hourly = timesteps, I can find the point where the model is blowing = up……

 

Bill Saunders

ATM-Newport

401-841-8901

 

=

From: Tom = Jobes [mailto:tjobes@sjrwmd.com]
Sent: Thursday, September = 06, 2007 1:30 PM
To: Private list for = BASINS users
Subject: RE: [basinsinfo] = WinHSPF crashes in AUXIL module

 

Bill,

 

Your FTABLE is truly tiny - it = looks like you're overflowing the banks with just a = couple

of thousand cubic feet of = storage.  Just because your FTABLE is small doesn't

mean that you can't easily overtop = it if the drainage area isn't correspondingly = tiny.

 

Try turning off all three auxiliary = flags in HYDR-PARM1.  Then look at the inflow coming in =

during that hour - I expect = you'll see it is far larger than your FTABLE can handle.  = Probably

the cross-section and reach length = are much too small for the flow passing = through.

 

Hope this = helps,

 

Tom = Jobes

SJRWMD

 

 

From: Saunders, Bill [mailto:BSaunders@appliedtm.com]
Sent: Thursday, September = 06, 2007 12:12 PM
To: Private list for = BASINS users
Subject: [basinsinfo] = WinHSPF crashes in AUXIL module

I am a new WinHSPF user and am getting this fatal = error when I try to execute the model:

 

*******************************************************************= *****************

 *          =             &= nbsp;                       &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           *

 *  ERROR/WARNING ID:   341   4            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;    *

 *          =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;           *

 *  DATE/TIME: 1970/ 1/ 6  5: 0               &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p; *

 *          =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;           *

 *  RCHRES:     5            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;      *

 *          =             &= nbsp;                   &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;   *

 *  The calculation of relative = depth in subroutine AUXIL, using Newton's     =       *

 *  method of successive = approximations, did not converge.  Probable reason --      = *

 *  unusual or bad entries in RCHTAB.  Relevant data are:           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;   *

 *          =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;           *

 *          = A          B          C      RDEP1      = RDEP2  COUNT           &n= bsp;       *

 *   435.60    2613.6     ********** ********** **********    = 101           &nbs= p;       *

 *          =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;           *

 *************************************************************= ***********************

 

I set up the wsd, rch, and ptf files using BASINS = 3.1.  I understand that the values for A and B above should be in acres = (surface area), but the RCHTAB values for this RCHRES (5) should not lead to = values that high (see the RCHTAB below).  Not sure how to determine what the “unusual or bad entries in RCHTAB” are or how to revise = them.  Has anyone had/seen this problem before??  Any insight would be = greatly appreaciated.

 

Dep(ft)  = Area(acres)      Vol (ac-ft)         Outflow1 = (ft3/s)

0         = ; 1.267122E-02   0                      = 0

0.0394  1.484343E-02   5.414883E-04   6.184715E-04

0.3936  3.439331E-02   0.0092623         = 3.572717E-02

0.492    3.982384E-02   1.291379E-02   5.576654E-02

0.615    0.1221868         2.710781E-02   0.1003669

0.738    0.1357631         4.297173E-02   0.2014786

12.669  1.452665          = 9.518741          334.3738

24.6      2.769567          34.70646          = 1877.815

 

 

Thanks.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<= /p>

Bill Saunders

Applied Technology & = Management

360 = Thames St., Suite 1B

Newport, RI  02840

USA

 

401-841-8901 (phone)

401-841-8903 (fax)

http://www.appliedtm.com

 

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You are currently subscribed to the basinsinfo listserver.

To unsubscribe, send the words unsubscribe basinsinfo to = lyris@lists.epa.gov
OR:
Use the listserver's web interface at = https://lists.epa.gov/cgi-bin/lyris.pl to manage your
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------_=_NextPart_001_01C7F0B2.957F44B7-- ----------------------------------------------------------- X-Message-Number: 9 X-lyris-Id: 160270 Ed Partington/DC/USEPA/US@EPA 09/06/2007 02:28 PM Please respond to "Private list for BASINS users" To "Private list for BASINS users" cc BSaunders@appliedtm.com bcc Subject [basinsinfo] WinHSPF crashes in AUXIL module FTABLE Problem FYI There is an automated method of creating your FTABLES based on regression of observed data from streams in physiographic provinces assumed to have similar landscape characteristics. See Technical Notes #2 which was updated this year. This PDF can be found at http://www.epa.gov/waterscience/basins/docs/tecnote2.pdf At the very least this will quickly create an FTABLE in which you could modify to meet your particular landscape characteristics. EPA/OW/OST/SHPD/RSTSSB/BASINS "Tom Jobes" To "Private list for BASINS users" 09/06/2007 01:29 PM cc Subject Please respond RE: [basinsinfo] WinHSPF crashes to in AUXIL module "Private list for BASINS users" Bill, Your FTABLE is truly tiny - it looks like you're overflowing the banks with just a couple of thousand cubic feet of storage. Just because your FTABLE is small doesn't mean that you can't easily overtop it if the drainage area isn't correspondingly tiny. Try turning off all three auxiliary flags in HYDR-PARM1. Then look at the inflow coming in during that hour - I expect you'll see it is far larger than your FTABLE can handle. Probably the cross-section and reach length are much too small for the flow passing through. Hope this helps, Tom Jobes SJRWMD From: Saunders, Bill [mailto:BSaunders@appliedtm.com] Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 12:12 PM To: Private list for BASINS users Subject: [basinsinfo] WinHSPF crashes in AUXIL module I am a new WinHSPF user and am getting this fatal error when I try to execute the model: ******************************************************************************** **** * * * ERROR/WARNING ID: 341 4 * * * * DATE/TIME: 1970/ 1/ 6 5: 0 * * * * RCHRES: 5 * * * * The calculation of relative depth in subroutine AUXIL, using Newton's * * method of successive approximations, did not converge. Probable reason -- * * unusual or bad entries in RCHTAB. Relevant data are: * * * * A B C RDEP1 RDEP2 COUNT * * 435.60 2613.6 ********** ********** ********** 101 * * * ******************************************************************************** **** I set up the wsd, rch, and ptf files using BASINS 3.1. I understand that the values for A and B above should be in acres (surface area), but the RCHTAB values for this RCHRES (5) should not lead to values that high (see the RCHTAB below). Not sure how to determine what the “unusual or bad entries in RCHTAB” are or how to revise them. Has anyone had/seen this problem before?? Any insight would be greatly appreaciated. Dep(ft) Area(acres) Vol (ac-ft) Outflow1 (ft3/s) 0 1.267122E-02 0 0 0.0394 1.484343E-02 5.414883E-04 6.184715E-04 0.3936 3.439331E-02 0.0092623 3.572717E-02 0.492 3.982384E-02 1.291379E-02 5.576654E-02 0.615 0.1221868 2.710781E-02 0.1003669 0.738 0.1357631 4.297173E-02 0.2014786 12.669 1.452665 9.518741 334.3738 24.6 2.769567 34.70646 1877.815 Thanks. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Bill Saunders Applied Technology & Management 360 Thames St., Suite 1B Newport, RI 02840 USA 401-841-8901 (phone) 401-841-8903 (fax) http://www.appliedtm.com ------------------------------------------ You are currently subscribed to the basinsinfo listserver. To unsubscribe, send the words unsubscribe basinsinfo to lyris@lists.epa.gov OR: Use the listserver's web interface at https://lists.epa.gov/cgi-bin/lyris.pl to manage your subscription. OR Contact the basinsinfo listserver owner at basinsinfo-Owner@lists.epa.gov ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ You are currently subscribed to the basinsinfo listserver. To unsubscribe, send the words unsubscribe basinsinfo to lyris@lists.epa.gov OR: Use the listserver's web interface at https://lists.epa.gov/cgi-bin/lyris.pl to manage your subscription. OR Contact the basinsinfo listserver owner at basinsinfo-Owner@lists.epa.gov ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ You are currently subscribed to the basinsinfo listserver. To unsubscribe, send the words unsubscribe basinsinfo to lyris@lists.epa.gov OR: Use the listserver's web interface at https://lists.epa.gov/cgi-bin/lyris.pl to manage your subscription. OR Contact the basinsinfo listserver owner at $subst('List.Name')-Owner@lists.epa.gov ------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------------------------- X-Message-Number: 10 X-lyris-Id: 160271 Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 14:41:26 -0400 From: "Tom Jobes" Subject: RE: WinHSPF crashes in AUXIL module This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7F0B5.8838392C X-EC0D2A8E-5CB7-4969-9C36-46D859D137BE-PartID: F20B86F1-B8D3-4E8A-AB26-79E88279AC0A Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bill, =20 Turning off the aux flags should prevent the error you had before, which occurs trying to compute the depth. Ideally, once all other issues are fixed, you should be able to turn those flags back on without crashing the run. =20 The PRINT-INFO tables (and BINARY-INFO tables if used) control the timestep of the output. The default of 4 means monthly. To get hourly values, set the flag for HYDR to 2, and set PIVL equal to 1. Since this creates a huge volume of output, you might shorten your run to 1 month or less until you have things debugged - even 1 week will take you to the first error you posted. =20 If the inflow volumes look too large, check the values for PERO (for PERLND, SURO for IMPLND) to make sure the depths multiplied by the acreages equal the volumes you see for the reaches, and that they are not unreasonably high. You cited your areas originally in hectares - are you using precip in inches or mm? =20 The continuity error below could have to do with numerical issues (such as roundoff) with the small numbers in your FTABLE - just make sure that the relative error (RELERR) remains small (the example you posted is 0.837%). =20 Tom Jobes SJRWMD ________________________________ From: Saunders, Bill [mailto:BSaunders@appliedtm.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 2:20 PM To: Private list for BASINS users Subject: RE: [basinsinfo] WinHSPF crashes in AUXIL module Thanks, Tom. You are correct, the FTABLE values are small, as is the commensurate drainage area for that RCHRES (9.63 hectare =3D 23.8 = acres). Your suggestions represent some progress for me. When I turn off the auxiliary flags for all 7 of my RCHRES, the model runs for an initial 1-year test. I do get multiple occurrences of the following continuity error for 2 of my reaches, but it doesn't appear to be fatal (at least not for the 1st year): =20 ************************************************************************ ************ * * * ERROR/WARNING ID: 238 1 * * * * The continuity error reported below is greater than 1 part in 1000 and is * * therefore considered high. * * * * Did you specify any "special actions"? If so, they could account for it. * * * * Relevant data are: * * DATE/TIME: 1970/ 1/31 24: 0 * * * * RCHRES : 5 * * * * RELERR STORS STOR MATIN MATDIF * * 0.00837 0.01000 0.01000 1.5890 -1.338E-02 * =20 =20 I have no "special actions" specified. You mentioned to "look at the inflow coming in during that hour". Please excuse my ignorance, but where are the hourly inflows into each RCHRES stored/output?? My *.out file does show monthly entries for each RCHRES and those values are all reasonably small (e.g. just under 1 cfs for the furthest downstream RCHRES). So the flows seem to be within the range that the FTABLE can handle. Still not sure what is contributing to my initial error. Maybe if I can get a look at the hourly timesteps, I can find the point where the model is blowing up...... =20 Bill Saunders ATM-Newport 401-841-8901 =20 ________________________________ From: Tom Jobes [mailto:tjobes@sjrwmd.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 1:30 PM To: Private list for BASINS users Subject: RE: [basinsinfo] WinHSPF crashes in AUXIL module =20 Bill, =20 Your FTABLE is truly tiny - it looks like you're overflowing the banks with just a couple of thousand cubic feet of storage. Just because your FTABLE is small doesn't mean that you can't easily overtop it if the drainage area isn't correspondingly tiny. =20 Try turning off all three auxiliary flags in HYDR-PARM1. Then look at the inflow coming in=20 during that hour - I expect you'll see it is far larger than your FTABLE can handle. Probably the cross-section and reach length are much too small for the flow passing through. =20 Hope this helps, =20 Tom Jobes SJRWMD =20 =20 ________________________________ From: Saunders, Bill [mailto:BSaunders@appliedtm.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 12:12 PM To: Private list for BASINS users Subject: [basinsinfo] WinHSPF crashes in AUXIL module I am a new WinHSPF user and am getting this fatal error when I try to execute the model: =20 ************************************************************************ ************ * * * ERROR/WARNING ID: 341 4 * * * * DATE/TIME: 1970/ 1/ 6 5: 0 * * * * RCHRES: 5 * * * * The calculation of relative depth in subroutine AUXIL, using Newton's * * method of successive approximations, did not converge. Probable reason -- * * unusual or bad entries in RCHTAB. Relevant data are: * * * * A B C RDEP1 RDEP2 COUNT * * 435.60 2613.6 ********** ********** ********** 101 * * * =20 ************************************************************************ ************ =20 I set up the wsd, rch, and ptf files using BASINS 3.1. I understand that the values for A and B above should be in acres (surface area), but the RCHTAB values for this RCHRES (5) should not lead to values that high (see the RCHTAB below). Not sure how to determine what the "unusual or bad entries in RCHTAB" are or how to revise them. Has anyone had/seen this problem before?? Any insight would be greatly appreaciated. =20 Dep(ft) Area(acres) Vol (ac-ft) Outflow1 (ft3/s) 0 1.267122E-02 0 0 0.0394 1.484343E-02 5.414883E-04 6.184715E-04 0.3936 3.439331E-02 0.0092623 3.572717E-02 0.492 3.982384E-02 1.291379E-02 5.576654E-02 0.615 0.1221868 2.710781E-02 0.1003669 0.738 0.1357631 4.297173E-02 0.2014786 12.669 1.452665 9.518741 334.3738 24.6 2.769567 34.70646 1877.815 =20 =20 Thanks. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Bill Saunders Applied Technology & Management 360 Thames St., Suite 1B Newport, RI 02840 USA =20 401-841-8901 (phone) 401-841-8903 (fax) http://www.appliedtm.com =20 ------------------------------------------=20 You are currently subscribed to the basinsinfo listserver.=20 To unsubscribe, send the words unsubscribe basinsinfo to lyris@lists.epa.gov=20 OR:=20 Use the listserver's web interface at https://lists.epa.gov/cgi-bin/lyris.pl to manage your=20 subscription.=20 OR=20 Contact the basinsinfo listserver owner at basinsinfo-Owner@lists.epa.gov=20 ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------=20 You are currently subscribed to the basinsinfo listserver.=20 To unsubscribe, send the words unsubscribe basinsinfo to lyris@lists.epa.gov=20 OR:=20 Use the listserver's web interface at https://lists.epa.gov/cgi-bin/lyris.pl to manage your=20 subscription.=20 OR=20 Contact the basinsinfo listserver owner at basinsinfo-Owner@lists.epa.gov=20 ------------------------------------------=20 ------------------------------------------=20 You are currently subscribed to the basinsinfo listserver.=20 To unsubscribe, send the words unsubscribe basinsinfo to lyris@lists.epa.gov=20 OR:=20 Use the listserver's web interface at https://lists.epa.gov/cgi-bin/lyris.pl to manage your=20 subscription.=20 OR=20 Contact the basinsinfo listserver owner at basinsinfo-Owner@lists.epa.gov=20 ------------------------------------------=20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7F0B5.8838392C X-EC0D2A8E-5CB7-4969-9C36-46D859D137BE-PartID: 9BDBC552-3D76-4DCE-9037-15C1257B5CE9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bill,
 
Turning off the aux flags should prevent the = error you had=20 before, which occurs trying to compute the depth. =20 Ideally,
once all other issues are fixed, you should be = able to turn=20 those flags back on without crashing the run.
 
The PRINT-INFO tables (and BINARY-INFO tables = if used)=20 control the timestep of the output.  The default of = 4
means monthly.  To get hourly values, set = the flag for=20 HYDR to 2, and set PIVL equal to 1.  Since=20 this
creates a huge volume of output, you might = shorten your run=20 to 1 month or less until you have things
debugged - even 1 week will take you to the = first error you=20 posted.
 
If the inflow volumes look too large, check the = values for=20 PERO (for PERLND, SURO for IMPLND) to make
sure the depths multiplied by the acreages = equal the=20 volumes you see for the reaches, and that they are
not unreasonably high.  You cited your = areas=20 originally in hectares - are you using precip in inches or=20 mm?
 
The continuity error below could have to do = with numerical=20 issues (such as roundoff) with the small numbers
in your FTABLE - just make sure that the = relative error=20 (RELERR) remains small (the example you posted
is 0.837%).
 
Tom Jobes
SJRWMD

From: Saunders, Bill=20 [mailto:BSaunders@appliedtm.com]
Sent: Thursday, September = 06, 2007=20 2:20 PM
To: Private list for BASINS users
Subject: = RE:=20 [basinsinfo] WinHSPF crashes in AUXIL module

Thanks, = Tom.  You=20 are correct, the FTABLE values are small, as is the commensurate = drainage area=20 for that RCHRES (9.63 hectare =3D 23.8 acres).  Your suggestions = represent=20 some progress for me.  When I turn off the auxiliary flags for all = 7 of my=20 RCHRES, the model runs for an initial 1-year test.  I do get = multiple=20 occurrences of the following continuity error for 2 of my reaches, but = it=20 doesn’t appear to be fatal (at least not for the 1st=20 year):

 

*******************************************************************= *****************

 *          =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;          =20 *

 *  = ERROR/WARNING=20 ID:   238   1     =20             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;          *

 *          =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;          =20 *

 *  The = continuity=20 error reported below is greater than 1 part in 1000 and=20 is       *

 *  = therefore=20 considered high.    =20             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;*

 *          =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;          =20 *

 *  Did = you=20 specify any "special actions"?  If so, they could account for=20 it.       *

 *          =             &= nbsp;       =20             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;  *

 *  = Relevant data=20 are:           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;=20 *

 *  = DATE/TIME:=20 1970/ 1/31 24:=20 0            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;   =20 *

 *          =             &= nbsp;     =20             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;    *

 *  = RCHRES=20 :   =20 5            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;     =20 *

 *          =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;          =20 *

 *     =20 RELERR      =20 STORS       =20 STOR       = MATIN     =20 MATDIF           &= nbsp;         =20 *

 *    =20 0.00837     0.01000    =20 0.01000     1.5890  =20 -1.338E-02          &nb= sp;          =20 *

 

 

I have no = “special=20 actions” specified.  You mentioned to “look at the = inflow coming in during=20 that hour”.  Please excuse my ignorance, but where are the = hourly inflows=20 into each RCHRES stored/output??  My *.out file does show monthly = entries=20 for each RCHRES and those values are all reasonably small (e.g. just = under 1 cfs=20 for the furthest downstream RCHRES).  So the flows seem to be = within the=20 range that the FTABLE can handle.  Still not sure what is = contributing to=20 my initial error.  Maybe if I can get a look at the hourly = timesteps, I can=20 find the point where the model is blowing = up……

 

Bill=20 Saunders

ATM-Newport

401-841-8901

 

From: Tom Jobes=20 [mailto:tjobes@sjrwmd.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 1:30=20 PM
To: Private list = for BASINS=20 users
Subject: RE: = [basinsinfo]=20 WinHSPF crashes in AUXIL module

 

Bill,

 

Your FTABLE = is truly=20 tiny - it looks like you're overflowing the banks with just a=20 couple

of thousand = cubic feet=20 of storage.  Just because your FTABLE is small = doesn't

mean that you = can't=20 easily overtop it if the drainage area isn't correspondingly=20 tiny.

 

Try turning = off all=20 three auxiliary flags in HYDR-PARM1.  Then look at the inflow = coming in=20

during that = hour=20 - I expect you'll see it is far larger than your FTABLE can = handle. =20 Probably

the = cross-section and=20 reach length are much too small for the flow passing = through.

 

Hope this=20 helps,

 

Tom=20 Jobes

SJRWMD

 

 

From: Saunders, = Bill [mailto:BSaunders@appliedtm.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 12:12=20 PM
To: Private list = for BASINS=20 users
Subject: = [basinsinfo]=20 WinHSPF crashes in AUXIL module

I am a new WinHSPF user = and am=20 getting this fatal error when I try to execute the = model:

 

*******************************************************************= *****************

 *          =             &= nbsp;          =20             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           *

 *  = ERROR/WARNING=20 ID:   341  =20 4            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;   =20 *

 *          =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;          =20 *

 *  = DATE/TIME:=20 1970/ 1/ 6  5: 0  =20             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p; *

 *          =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;          =20 *

 * =20 RCHRES:    =20 5            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;     =20 *

 *          =             &= nbsp;      =20             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;   *

 *  The=20 calculation of relative depth in subroutine AUXIL, using=20 Newton's          =20 *

 *  = method of=20 successive approximations, did not converge.  Probable reason=20 --      *

 *  = unusual or bad=20 entries in RCHTAB.  Relevant data=20 are:           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;  =20 *

 *          =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;          =20 *

 *          = =20 A         =20 B         =20 C      RDEP1      = RDEP2 =20 COUNT           &n= bsp;      =20 *

 *  =20 435.60    2613.6     ********** = **********=20 **********   =20 101           &nbs= p;      =20 *

 *          =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;          =20 *

 *************************************************************= ***********************

 

I set up the wsd, rch, and = ptf files=20 using BASINS 3.1.  I understand that the values for A and B above = should be=20 in acres (surface area), but the RCHTAB values for this RCHRES (5) = should not=20 lead to values that high (see the RCHTAB below).  Not sure how to = determine=20 what the “unusual or bad entries in RCHTAB” are or how to = revise them.  Has=20 anyone had/seen this problem before??  Any insight would be greatly = appreaciated.

 

Dep(ft) =20 Area(acres)      Vol=20 (ac-ft)         Outflow1=20 (ft3/s)

0         =20 1.267122E-02   = 0         =20            =20 0

0.0394 =20 1.484343E-02   5.414883E-04   = 6.184715E-04

0.3936 =20 3.439331E-02  =20 0.0092623        =20 3.572717E-02

0.492   =20 3.982384E-02   1.291379E-02   = 5.576654E-02

0.615   =20 0.1221868        =20 2.710781E-02   0.1003669

0.738   =20 0.1357631        =20 4.297173E-02   0.2014786

12.669 =20 1.452665         =20 9.518741         =20 334.3738

24.6     =20 2.769567         =20 34.70646         =20 1877.815

 

 

Thanks.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Bill = Saunders

Applied Technology &=20 Management

360 Thames St., Suite=20 1B

Newport, RI =20 02840

USA

 

401-841-8901=20 (phone)

401-841-8903 = (fax)

http://www.appliedtm.com

 

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------------------------------------------=20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7F0B5.8838392C-- ----------------------------------------------------------- X-Message-Number: 11 X-lyris-Id: 160330 Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 11:20:48 -0500 From: "Brant, Gail - Greensboro, NC" Subject: RE: high simulated runoff volume Hello, As perhaps the lone sociologist using this listserve do any of you know how to obtain information about the number of US states that regulate Nutrient management and the number of states that have voluntary nutrient management planning requirements? In advance, thanks for any assistance. Gail Brant Gail Brant, Sociologist USDA-NRCS, ENTSC 705 Colin Court Royersford, PA 19468 (610) 792-9207 Fax: (610) 792- 9318 gail.brant@gnb.usda.gov -----Original Message----- From: kevinhe@ucla.edu [mailto:kevinhe@ucla.edu]=20 Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 8:45 PM To: Private list for BASINS users Subject: [basinsinfo] high simulated runoff volume Dear everyone: I got high HSPF-simulated flows (especially overland flow) on =20 daily,monthly,and annual scales. I tried to adjust the parameters to =20 first reduce the overland flow. The values of some adjusted parameters =20 were event out of the possible ranges,e.g., UZSN (adjusted value: 5 in/hr) NSUR (0.5) SLSUR(0.00001) UZSN (5 in) CEPSC (0.5 in) However, the results did not change much at all. Any suggestions on =20 how to adjust the parameters? Thanks! Minxue ------------------------------------------ You are currently subscribed to the basinsinfo listserver.=20 To unsubscribe, send the words unsubscribe basinsinfo to lyris@lists.epa.gov OR: Use the listserver's web interface at https://lists.epa.gov/cgi-bin/lyris.pl to manage your=20 subscription. OR Contact the basinsinfo listserver owner at basinsinfo-Owner@lists.epa.gov ------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------------------------- X-Message-Number: 12 X-lyris-Id: 160378 Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 14:51:17 -0400 From: "Saunders, Bill" Subject: RE: WinHSPF crashes in AUXIL module This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7F3DB.9222D526 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tom, thanks again for your input. I've been able to view my hourly output and am seeing some odd symptoms. Although my inflow volumes don't look too large, I tracked down the PERO and SURO values in the MASS-LINK portion of the *.uci file. They're both 0.0833, which is what they should be to convert inches of precip to acre-feet of runoff. I referred to my areas in hectares because those are the units that BASINS wants in creating the .wsd and .rch files for WinHSPF. The resultant areas in the .wsd file are indeed acres. My precip values look to be inches with a max hourly value of 1.4 for the simulation year. =20 Getting back to my observed irregularities, in my model, subwatershed 5 is a headwater that drains to subshed 4, which drains to subshed 3, etc. The outflow profiles for subshed 5 and 3 seem to respond reasonably to precip input for a short while, but then the model starts reporting 0 cfs outflows for every other hour for these subsheds, creating a "sawtooth" effect in the profile. What is especially odd about this is that subshed 4, which is between the two, doesn't exhibit this behavior. =20 I also noticed that the "alternating 0 cfs" problem seems to initiate at the same timestep (and subshed) as those for which the continuity error (see below) occurs. Every continuity error in my *.ech file corresponds to a timestep and subshed for which 0 cfs is reported (The continuity errors also occur at alternating time steps). However, once the alternating "0 cfs" condition starts, it appears to continue for the subshed, regardless of whether I get a corresponding continuity error. =20 =20 Have you (or anyone else on the list) seen this behavior before?? =20 Bill Saunders ATM-Newport 401-841-8901 =20 ________________________________ From: Tom Jobes [mailto:tjobes@sjrwmd.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 2:41 PM To: Private list for BASINS users Subject: RE: [basinsinfo] WinHSPF crashes in AUXIL module =20 Bill, =20 Turning off the aux flags should prevent the error you had before, which occurs trying to compute the depth. Ideally, once all other issues are fixed, you should be able to turn those flags back on without crashing the run. =20 The PRINT-INFO tables (and BINARY-INFO tables if used) control the timestep of the output. The default of 4 means monthly. To get hourly values, set the flag for HYDR to 2, and set PIVL equal to 1. Since this creates a huge volume of output, you might shorten your run to 1 month or less until you have things debugged - even 1 week will take you to the first error you posted. =20 If the inflow volumes look too large, check the values for PERO (for PERLND, SURO for IMPLND) to make sure the depths multiplied by the acreages equal the volumes you see for the reaches, and that they are not unreasonably high. You cited your areas originally in hectares - are you using precip in inches or mm? =20 The continuity error below could have to do with numerical issues (such as roundoff) with the small numbers in your FTABLE - just make sure that the relative error (RELERR) remains small (the example you posted is 0.837%). =20 Tom Jobes SJRWMD =20 ________________________________ From: Saunders, Bill [mailto:BSaunders@appliedtm.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 2:20 PM To: Private list for BASINS users Subject: RE: [basinsinfo] WinHSPF crashes in AUXIL module Thanks, Tom. You are correct, the FTABLE values are small, as is the commensurate drainage area for that RCHRES (9.63 hectare =3D 23.8 = acres). Your suggestions represent some progress for me. When I turn off the auxiliary flags for all 7 of my RCHRES, the model runs for an initial 1-year test. I do get multiple occurrences of the following continuity error for 2 of my reaches, but it doesn't appear to be fatal (at least not for the 1st year): =20 ************************************************************************ ************ * * * ERROR/WARNING ID: 238 1 * * * * The continuity error reported below is greater than 1 part in 1000 and is * * therefore considered high. * * * * Did you specify any "special actions"? If so, they could account for it. * * * * Relevant data are: * * DATE/TIME: 1970/ 1/31 24: 0 * * * * RCHRES : 5 * * * * RELERR STORS STOR MATIN MATDIF * * 0.00837 0.01000 0.01000 1.5890 -1.338E-02 * =20 =20 I have no "special actions" specified. You mentioned to "look at the inflow coming in during that hour". Please excuse my ignorance, but where are the hourly inflows into each RCHRES stored/output?? My *.out file does show monthly entries for each RCHRES and those values are all reasonably small (e.g. just under 1 cfs for the furthest downstream RCHRES). So the flows seem to be within the range that the FTABLE can handle. Still not sure what is contributing to my initial error. Maybe if I can get a look at the hourly timesteps, I can find the point where the model is blowing up...... =20 Bill Saunders ATM-Newport 401-841-8901 =20 ________________________________ =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7F3DB.9222D526 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Tom, thanks again for your input.  I’ve been able to view my hourly output and am seeing some = odd symptoms.  Although my inflow volumes don’t look too large, I tracked = down the PERO and SURO values in the MASS-LINK portion of the *.uci file.  They’re both 0.0833, which is what they should be to convert = inches of precip to acre-feet of runoff.  I referred to my areas in = hectares because those are the units that BASINS wants in creating the .wsd and = .rch files for WinHSPF.  The resultant areas in the .wsd file are indeed = acres.  My precip values look to be inches with a max hourly value of 1.4 = for the simulation year.

 

Getting back to my observed irregularities, in my model, subwatershed 5 is a headwater that drains = to subshed 4, which drains to subshed 3, etc.  The outflow profiles = for subshed 5 and 3 seem to respond reasonably to precip input for a short = while, but then the model starts reporting 0 cfs outflows for every other hour = for these subsheds, creating a “sawtooth” effect in the = profile.  What is especially odd about this is that subshed 4, which is between = the two, doesn’t exhibit this behavior.

 

I also noticed that the = “alternating 0 cfs” problem seems to initiate at the same timestep (and = subshed) as those for which the continuity error (see below) occurs.  Every = continuity error in my *.ech file corresponds to a timestep and subshed for which 0 = cfs is reported (The continuity errors also occur at alternating time = steps).  However, once the alternating “0 cfs” condition starts, it = appears to continue for the subshed, regardless of whether I get a corresponding continuity error.  

 

Have you (or anyone else on the = list) seen this behavior before??

 

Bill Saunders

ATM-Newport

401-841-8901

 

=

From: Tom = Jobes [mailto:tjobes@sjrwmd.com]
Sent: Thursday, September = 06, 2007 2:41 PM
To: Private list for BASINS users
Subject: RE: [basinsinfo] = WinHSPF crashes in AUXIL module

 

Bill,

 

Turning off the aux flags should = prevent the error you had before, which occurs trying to compute the = depth.  Ideally,

once all other issues are fixed, = you should be able to turn those flags back on without crashing the = run.

 

The PRINT-INFO tables (and = BINARY-INFO tables if used) control the timestep of the output.  The default of = 4

means monthly.  To get hourly = values, set the flag for HYDR to 2, and set PIVL equal to 1.  = Since this

creates a huge volume of output, = you might shorten your run to 1 month or less until you have = things

debugged - even 1 week will take = you to the first error you posted.

 

If the inflow volumes look too = large, check the values for PERO (for PERLND, SURO for IMPLND) to = make

sure the depths multiplied by the = acreages equal the volumes you see for the reaches, and that they = are

not unreasonably high.  You = cited your areas originally in hectares - are you using precip in inches or = mm?

 

The continuity error below could = have to do with numerical issues (such as roundoff) with the small = numbers

in your FTABLE - just make sure = that the relative error (RELERR) remains small (the example you = posted

is 0.837%).<= /o:p>

 

Tom = Jobes

SJRWMD

 

From: Saunders, Bill [mailto:BSaunders@appliedtm.com]
Sent: Thursday, September = 06, 2007 2:20 PM
To: Private list for BASINS users
Subject: RE: [basinsinfo] = WinHSPF crashes in AUXIL module

Thanks, Tom.  You are correct, = the FTABLE values are small, as is the commensurate drainage area for that = RCHRES (9.63 hectare =3D 23.8 acres).  Your suggestions represent some = progress for me.  When I turn off the auxiliary flags for all 7 of my RCHRES, = the model runs for an initial 1-year test.  I do get multiple occurrences of = the following continuity error for 2 of my reaches, but it doesn’t = appear to be fatal (at least not for the 1st = year):

 

*******************************************************************= *****************

 *          =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;           *

 *  ERROR/WARNING ID:   238   1                  &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;          *

 *          =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;           *

 *  The continuity error reported = below is greater than 1 part in 1000 and is       = *

 *  therefore considered high.                 &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;*

 *          =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;           *

 *  Did you specify any = "special actions"?  If so, they could account for it.       *

 *          =             &= nbsp;                    &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;  *

 *  Relevant data are:           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp; *

 *  DATE/TIME: 1970/ 1/31 24: 0            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;    *

 *          =             &= nbsp;                  &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;    *

 *  RCHRES :    5            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;      *

 *          =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;           *

 *      RELERR       STORS        STOR       = MATIN      MATDIF           &= nbsp;          *

 *     0.00837     0.01000     0.01000     1.5890   -1.338E-02          &nb= sp;           *

 

 

I have no “special = actions” specified.  You mentioned to “look at the inflow coming in during that hour”.  Please excuse my ignorance, but where are the hourly = inflows into each RCHRES stored/output??  My *.out file does show monthly = entries for each RCHRES and those values are all reasonably small (e.g. just = under 1 cfs for the furthest downstream RCHRES).  So the flows seem to be = within the range that the FTABLE can handle.  Still not sure what is = contributing to my initial error.  Maybe if I can get a look at the hourly = timesteps, I can find the point where the model is blowing = up……

 

Bill = Saunders

ATM-Newport=

401-841-8901

 

 

------_=_NextPart_001_01C7F3DB.9222D526-- ----------------------------------------------------------- X-Message-Number: 13 X-lyris-Id: 160406 Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 11:34:48 -0400 From: "Saunders, Bill" Subject: RE: FTABLES in the UCI file This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7F489.4A390103 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am trying to change my FTABLES via the WinHSPF Edit FTable feature. Unfortunately, after I've updated my FTABLES, the individual values get rounded down to no more than 2 decimal places in the UCI file. This results in successive entries of the same value for SA and Vol, which may be leading to continuity errors that I am having. Is there a way (e.g. variable) for me to specify the # of decimal places that the FTABLE entries should retain in the UCI file?? Thanks. =20 Bill Saunders ATM-Newport 401-841-8901 =20 =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7F489.4A390103 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I am trying to change my FTABLES = via the WinHSPF Edit FTable feature.  Unfortunately, after I’ve = updated my FTABLES, the individual values get rounded down to no more than 2 = decimal places in the UCI file.  This results in successive entries of the = same value for SA and Vol, which may be leading to continuity errors that I = am having.  Is there a way (e.g. variable) for me to specify the # of = decimal places that the FTABLE entries should retain in the UCI file?? =  Thanks.

 

Bill Saunders

ATM-Newport

401-841-8901

 

=

 

------_=_NextPart_001_01C7F489.4A390103-- ----------------------------------------------------------- X-Message-Number: 14 X-lyris-Id: 160435 Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 13:55:29 -0400 From: "Tom Jobes" Subject: RE: WinHSPF crashes in AUXIL module This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7F49C.F08F0F40 X-EC0D2A8E-5CB7-4969-9C36-46D859D137BE-PartID: 9C80E200-A6D2-4637-A4EF-27B485960278 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bill, =20 First, I agree that your units seem to be fine. =20 The alternating 0 flows is generally an issue with the FTABLE being "misshapen". By this I mean=20 that at a given (generally small) storage, the corresponding outflow rate is so high that it drains the reach in a single timestep. Often this results from the first non-zero row being too large, so that the linear interpolation of flow for small storages is very inaccurate. Try inserting 1 or more additional rows below the first row, and make sure that their discharge rate is not excessive. =20 Another possibility is to set KS=3D0 in HYDR-PARM2 - this frequently = gets rid of the "sawtooth" flows, at the cost, however, of some accuracy. With such small flows you're working with, perhaps this should be a last resort. =20 To respond to your other email about FTABLE precision, I'm not aware of any way to set the significant digits, but in most cases (not such tiny flows) the defaults seem to suffice. You can however open the UCI in a text editor and fix them manually if the interface is chopping off your numbers too much. Becoming comfortable with handling the UCI in a text editor is a useful skill that I'd recommend cultivating, GUIs notwithstanding. =20 Tom Jobes=20 St Johns River Water Management District=20 tjobes@sjrwmd.com=20 386-329-4463=20 From: Saunders, Bill [mailto:BSaunders@appliedtm.com]=20 Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 2:51 PM To: Private list for BASINS users Subject: RE: [basinsinfo] WinHSPF crashes in AUXIL module =20 Tom, thanks again for your input. I've been able to view my hourly output and am seeing some odd symptoms. Although my inflow volumes don't look too large, I tracked down the PERO and SURO values in the MASS-LINK portion of the *.uci file. They're both 0.0833, which is what they should be to convert inches of precip to acre-feet of runoff. I referred to my areas in hectares because those are the units that BASINS wants in creating the .wsd and .rch files for WinHSPF. The resultant areas in the .wsd file are indeed acres. My precip values look to be inches with a max hourly value of 1.4 for the simulation year. =20 Getting back to my observed irregularities, in my model, subwatershed 5 is a headwater that drains to subshed 4, which drains to subshed 3, etc. The outflow profiles for subshed 5 and 3 seem to respond reasonably to precip input for a short while, but then the model starts reporting 0 cfs outflows for every other hour for these subsheds, creating a "sawtooth" effect in the profile. What is especially odd about this is that subshed 4, which is between the two, doesn't exhibit this behavior. =20 I also noticed that the "alternating 0 cfs" problem seems to initiate at the same timestep (and subshed) as those for which the continuity error (see below) occurs. Every continuity error in my *.ech file corresponds to a timestep and subshed for which 0 cfs is reported (The continuity errors also occur at alternating time steps). However, once the alternating "0 cfs" condition starts, it appears to continue for the subshed, regardless of whether I get a corresponding continuity error. =20 =20 Have you (or anyone else on the list) seen this behavior before?? =20 Bill Saunders ATM-Newport 401-841-8901 =20 ________________________________ From: Tom Jobes [mailto:tjobes@sjrwmd.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 2:41 PM To: Private list for BASINS users Subject: RE: [basinsinfo] WinHSPF crashes in AUXIL module =20 Bill, =20 Turning off the aux flags should prevent the error you had before, which occurs trying to compute the depth. Ideally, once all other issues are fixed, you should be able to turn those flags back on without crashing the run. =20 The PRINT-INFO tables (and BINARY-INFO tables if used) control the timestep of the output. The default of 4 means monthly. To get hourly values, set the flag for HYDR to 2, and set PIVL equal to 1. Since this creates a huge volume of output, you might shorten your run to 1 month or less until you have things debugged - even 1 week will take you to the first error you posted. =20 If the inflow volumes look too large, check the values for PERO (for PERLND, SURO for IMPLND) to make sure the depths multiplied by the acreages equal the volumes you see for the reaches, and that they are not unreasonably high. You cited your areas originally in hectares - are you using precip in inches or mm? =20 The continuity error below could have to do with numerical issues (such as roundoff) with the small numbers in your FTABLE - just make sure that the relative error (RELERR) remains small (the example you posted is 0.837%). =20 Tom Jobes SJRWMD =20 ________________________________ From: Saunders, Bill [mailto:BSaunders@appliedtm.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 2:20 PM To: Private list for BASINS users Subject: RE: [basinsinfo] WinHSPF crashes in AUXIL module Thanks, Tom. You are correct, the FTABLE values are small, as is the commensurate drainage area for that RCHRES (9.63 hectare =3D 23.8 = acres). Your suggestions represent some progress for me. When I turn off the auxiliary flags for all 7 of my RCHRES, the model runs for an initial 1-year test. I do get multiple occurrences of the following continuity error for 2 of my reaches, but it doesn't appear to be fatal (at least not for the 1st year): =20 ************************************************************************ ************ * * * ERROR/WARNING ID: 238 1 * * * * The continuity error reported below is greater than 1 part in 1000 and is * * therefore considered high. * * * * Did you specify any "special actions"? If so, they could account for it. * * * * Relevant data are: * * DATE/TIME: 1970/ 1/31 24: 0 * * * * RCHRES : 5 * * * * RELERR STORS STOR MATIN MATDIF * * 0.00837 0.01000 0.01000 1.5890 -1.338E-02 * =20 =20 I have no "special actions" specified. You mentioned to "look at the inflow coming in during that hour". Please excuse my ignorance, but where are the hourly inflows into each RCHRES stored/output?? My *.out file does show monthly entries for each RCHRES and those values are all reasonably small (e.g. just under 1 cfs for the furthest downstream RCHRES). So the flows seem to be within the range that the FTABLE can handle. Still not sure what is contributing to my initial error. Maybe if I can get a look at the hourly timesteps, I can find the point where the model is blowing up...... =20 Bill Saunders ATM-Newport 401-841-8901 =20 ________________________________ =20 ------------------------------------------=20 You are currently subscribed to the basinsinfo listserver.=20 To unsubscribe, send the words unsubscribe basinsinfo to lyris@lists.epa.gov=20 OR:=20 Use the listserver's web interface at https://lists.epa.gov/cgi-bin/lyris.pl to manage your=20 subscription.=20 OR=20 Contact the basinsinfo listserver owner at basinsinfo-Owner@lists.epa.gov=20 ------------------------------------------=20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7F49C.F08F0F40 X-EC0D2A8E-5CB7-4969-9C36-46D859D137BE-PartID: B9C656EE-2423-4CB1-ADB5-872BA5A46D48 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Bill,

 

First, I agree that your units seem to be = fine.

 

The alternating 0 flows is generally an issue with the = FTABLE being “misshapen”.  By this I mean

that at a given (generally small) storage, the = corresponding outflow rate is so high that it drains

the reach in a single timestep.  Often this results = from the first non-zero row being too large, so

that the linear interpolation of flow for small storages = is very inaccurate.  Try inserting 1 or more

additional rows below the first row, and make sure that = their discharge rate is not excessive.

 

Another possibility is to set KS=3D0 in HYDR-PARM2 = – this frequently gets rid of the “sawtooth” flows,

at the cost, however, of some accuracy.  With such = small flows you’re working with, perhaps this

should be a last resort.

 

To respond to your other email about FTABLE precision, = I’m not aware of any way to set the

significant digits, but in most cases (not such tiny = flows) the defaults seem to suffice.  You can

however open the UCI in a text editor and fix them = manually if the interface is chopping off

your numbers too much.  Becoming comfortable with = handling the UCI in a text editor is a

useful skill that I’d recommend cultivating, GUIs notwithstanding.

 

Tom Jobes
St Johns River Water Management District
tjobes@sjrwmd.com =
386-329-4463 =

From:= = Saunders, Bill [mailto:BSaunders@appliedtm.com]
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 2:51 PM
To: Private list for BASINS users
Subject: RE: [basinsinfo] WinHSPF crashes in AUXIL = module

 

Tom, thanks again for your input.  I’ve been able = to view my hourly output and am seeing some odd symptoms.  Although my = inflow volumes don’t look too large, I tracked down the PERO and SURO = values in the MASS-LINK portion of the *.uci file.  They’re both = 0.0833, which is what they should be to convert inches of precip to acre-feet of runoff.  I referred to my areas in hectares because those are the = units that BASINS wants in creating the .wsd and .rch files for WinHSPF. =  The resultant areas in the .wsd file are indeed acres.  My precip = values look to be inches with a max hourly value of 1.4 for the simulation = year.

 

Getting back to my observed irregularities, in my model, = subwatershed 5 is a headwater that drains to subshed 4, which drains to subshed 3, = etc.  The outflow profiles for subshed 5 and 3 seem to respond = reasonably to precip input for a short while, but then the model starts reporting 0 = cfs outflows for every other hour for these subsheds, creating a “sawtooth” effect in the profile.  What is especially = odd about this is that subshed 4, which is between the two, doesn’t = exhibit this behavior.

 

I also noticed that the “alternating 0 cfs” = problem seems to initiate at the same timestep (and subshed) as those for which = the continuity error (see below) occurs.  Every continuity error in my = *.ech file corresponds to a timestep and subshed for which 0 cfs is reported = (The continuity errors also occur at alternating time steps).  However, = once the alternating “0 cfs” condition starts, it appears to = continue for the subshed, regardless of whether I get a corresponding continuity = error.  

 

Have you (or anyone else on the list) seen this behavior = before??

 

Bill Saunders

ATM-Newport

401-841-8901

 

From:= = Tom Jobes [mailto:tjobes@sjrwmd.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 2:41 PM
To: Private list for BASINS users
Subject: RE: [basinsinfo] WinHSPF crashes in AUXIL = module

 

Bill,

 

Turning off the aux flags should prevent the error you had = before, which occurs trying to compute the depth.  Ideally,

once all other issues are fixed, you should be able to turn = those flags back on without crashing the run.

 

The PRINT-INFO tables (and BINARY-INFO tables if used) = control the timestep of the output.  The default of 4

means monthly.  To get hourly values, set the flag for = HYDR to 2, and set PIVL equal to 1.  Since this

creates a huge volume of output, you might shorten your run = to 1 month or less until you have things

debugged - even 1 week will take you to the first error you = posted.

 

If the inflow volumes look too large, check the values for = PERO (for PERLND, SURO for IMPLND) to make

sure the depths multiplied by the acreages equal the volumes = you see for the reaches, and that they are

not unreasonably high.  You cited your areas originally = in hectares - are you using precip in inches or mm?

 

The continuity error below could have to do with numerical = issues (such as roundoff) with the small numbers

in your FTABLE - just make sure that the relative error = (RELERR) remains small (the example you posted

is 0.837%).

 

Tom Jobes

SJRWMD

 

From: Saunders, Bill = [mailto:BSaunders@appliedtm.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 2:20 PM
To: Private list for BASINS users
Subject: RE: [basinsinfo] WinHSPF crashes in AUXIL = module

Thanks, Tom.  You are correct, the FTABLE values are = small, as is the commensurate drainage area for that RCHRES (9.63 hectare =3D 23.8 = acres).  Your suggestions represent some progress for me.  When I turn = off the auxiliary flags for all 7 of my RCHRES, the model runs for an = initial 1-year test.  I do get multiple occurrences of the following = continuity error for 2 of my reaches, but it doesn’t appear to be fatal (at = least not for the 1st year):

 

*******************************************************************= *****************

 *          =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;           *

 *  ERROR/WARNING ID:   238   = 1                  &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;          *

 *          =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;           *

 *  The continuity error reported below is greater than 1 part in 1000 and is       *

 *  therefore considered high.                 &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;*

 *          =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;           *

 *  Did you specify any "special actions"?  If so, they could account for it.       *

 *          =             &= nbsp;                    &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;  *

 *  Relevant data are:           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp; *

 *  DATE/TIME: 1970/ 1/31 24: 0            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;    *

 *          =             &= nbsp;                  &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;    *

 *  RCHRES :    5            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;      *

 *          =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;           *

 *      RELERR       STORS        STOR       = MATIN      MATDIF           &= nbsp;          *

 *     0.00837     0.01000     0.01000     1.5890   -1.338E-02          &nb= sp;           *

 

 

I have no “special actions” specified.  You mentioned to “look at the inflow coming in during that = hour”.  Please excuse my ignorance, but where are the hourly inflows into = each RCHRES stored/output??  My *.out file does show monthly entries for = each RCHRES and those values are all reasonably small (e.g. just under 1 cfs = for the furthest downstream RCHRES).  So the flows seem to be within the = range that the FTABLE can handle.  Still not sure what is contributing to = my initial error.  Maybe if I can get a look at the hourly timesteps, = I can find the point where the model is blowing up……

 

Bill Saunders

ATM-Newport

401-841-8901

 

 

------------------------------------------
You are currently subscribed to the basinsinfo listserver.

To unsubscribe, send the words unsubscribe basinsinfo to = lyris@lists.epa.gov
OR:
Use the listserver's web interface at = https://lists.epa.gov/cgi-bin/lyris.pl to manage your
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Contact the basinsinfo listserver owner at = basinsinfo-Owner@lists.epa.gov
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------_=_NextPart_001_01C7F49C.F08F0F40-- ----------------------------------------------------------- X-Message-Number: 15 X-lyris-Id: 160441 Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 16:20:13 -0400 From: "Saunders, Bill" Subject: RE: WinHSPF crashes in AUXIL module This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7F4B1.28B2177C Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks, Tom. I have actually just resolved the alternation 0 flows problem by manually changing the FTABLES for each of the RCHRES, i.e. eliminating any rows that had successive SA, Vol, or Q values that were equal. This is AFTER using the Alternative FTABLE Method (from Technical Note 2 as per Ed's posting) to create new tables. My resultant FTABLE for the headwater subshed is small (8 rows), but the rest of the tables are between 12-17 rows, so I'm still doing better than the Standard FTABLE calculation method would do for me. I'm going to move into longer runs and start turning WQ modules on now, so I'm sure that there will be more questions..... =20 Thanks again. =20 Bill Saunders ATM-Newport 401-841-8901 =20 ________________________________ From: Tom Jobes [mailto:tjobes@sjrwmd.com]=20 Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 1:55 PM To: Private list for BASINS users Subject: RE: [basinsinfo] WinHSPF crashes in AUXIL module =20 Bill, =20 First, I agree that your units seem to be fine. =20 The alternating 0 flows is generally an issue with the FTABLE being "misshapen". By this I mean=20 that at a given (generally small) storage, the corresponding outflow rate is so high that it drains the reach in a single timestep. Often this results from the first non-zero row being too large, so that the linear interpolation of flow for small storages is very inaccurate. Try inserting 1 or more additional rows below the first row, and make sure that their discharge rate is not excessive. =20 Another possibility is to set KS=3D0 in HYDR-PARM2 - this frequently = gets rid of the "sawtooth" flows, at the cost, however, of some accuracy. With such small flows you're working with, perhaps this should be a last resort. =20 To respond to your other email about FTABLE precision, I'm not aware of any way to set the significant digits, but in most cases (not such tiny flows) the defaults seem to suffice. You can however open the UCI in a text editor and fix them manually if the interface is chopping off your numbers too much. Becoming comfortable with handling the UCI in a text editor is a useful skill that I'd recommend cultivating, GUIs notwithstanding. =20 Tom Jobes=20 St Johns River Water Management District=20 tjobes@sjrwmd.com=20 386-329-4463=20 From: Saunders, Bill [mailto:BSaunders@appliedtm.com]=20 Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 2:51 PM To: Private list for BASINS users Subject: RE: [basinsinfo] WinHSPF crashes in AUXIL module =20 Tom, thanks again for your input. I've been able to view my hourly output and am seeing some odd symptoms. Although my inflow volumes don't look too large, I tracked down the PERO and SURO values in the MASS-LINK portion of the *.uci file. They're both 0.0833, which is what they should be to convert inches of precip to acre-feet of runoff. I referred to my areas in hectares because those are the units that BASINS wants in creating the .wsd and .rch files for WinHSPF. The resultant areas in the .wsd file are indeed acres. My precip values look to be inches with a max hourly value of 1.4 for the simulation year. =20 Getting back to my observed irregularities, in my model, subwatershed 5 is a headwater that drains to subshed 4, which drains to subshed 3, etc. The outflow profiles for subshed 5 and 3 seem to respond reasonably to precip input for a short while, but then the model starts reporting 0 cfs outflows for every other hour for these subsheds, creating a "sawtooth" effect in the profile. What is especially odd about this is that subshed 4, which is between the two, doesn't exhibit this behavior. =20 I also noticed that the "alternating 0 cfs" problem seems to initiate at the same timestep (and subshed) as those for which the continuity error (see below) occurs. Every continuity error in my *.ech file corresponds to a timestep and subshed for which 0 cfs is reported (The continuity errors also occur at alternating time steps). However, once the alternating "0 cfs" condition starts, it appears to continue for the subshed, regardless of whether I get a corresponding continuity error. =20 =20 Have you (or anyone else on the list) seen this behavior before?? =20 Bill Saunders ATM-Newport 401-841-8901 =20 ________________________________ From: Tom Jobes [mailto:tjobes@sjrwmd.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 2:41 PM To: Private list for BASINS users Subject: RE: [basinsinfo] WinHSPF crashes in AUXIL module =20 Bill, =20 Turning off the aux flags should prevent the error you had before, which occurs trying to compute the depth. Ideally, once all other issues are fixed, you should be able to turn those flags back on without crashing the run. =20 The PRINT-INFO tables (and BINARY-INFO tables if used) control the timestep of the output. The default of 4 means monthly. To get hourly values, set the flag for HYDR to 2, and set PIVL equal to 1. Since this creates a huge volume of output, you might shorten your run to 1 month or less until you have things debugged - even 1 week will take you to the first error you posted. =20 If the inflow volumes look too large, check the values for PERO (for PERLND, SURO for IMPLND) to make sure the depths multiplied by the acreages equal the volumes you see for the reaches, and that they are not unreasonably high. You cited your areas originally in hectares - are you using precip in inches or mm? =20 The continuity error below could have to do with numerical issues (such as roundoff) with the small numbers in your FTABLE - just make sure that the relative error (RELERR) remains small (the example you posted is 0.837%). =20 Tom Jobes SJRWMD =20 ________________________________ From: Saunders, Bill [mailto:BSaunders@appliedtm.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 2:20 PM To: Private list for BASINS users Subject: RE: [basinsinfo] WinHSPF crashes in AUXIL module Thanks, Tom. You are correct, the FTABLE values are small, as is the commensurate drainage area for that RCHRES (9.63 hectare =3D 23.8 = acres). Your suggestions represent some progress for me. When I turn off the auxiliary flags for all 7 of my RCHRES, the model runs for an initial 1-year test. I do get multiple occurrences of the following continuity error for 2 of my reaches, but it doesn't appear to be fatal (at least not for the 1st year): =20 ************************************************************************ ************ * * * ERROR/WARNING ID: 238 1 * * * * The continuity error reported below is greater than 1 part in 1000 and is * * therefore considered high. * * * * Did you specify any "special actions"? If so, they could account for it. * * * * Relevant data are: * * DATE/TIME: 1970/ 1/31 24: 0 * * * * RCHRES : 5 * * * * RELERR STORS STOR MATIN MATDIF * * 0.00837 0.01000 0.01000 1.5890 -1.338E-02 * =20 =20 I have no "special actions" specified. You mentioned to "look at the inflow coming in during that hour". Please excuse my ignorance, but where are the hourly inflows into each RCHRES stored/output?? My *.out file does show monthly entries for each RCHRES and those values are all reasonably small (e.g. just under 1 cfs for the furthest downstream RCHRES). So the flows seem to be within the range that the FTABLE can handle. Still not sure what is contributing to my initial error. Maybe if I can get a look at the hourly timesteps, I can find the point where the model is blowing up...... =20 Bill Saunders ATM-Newport 401-841-8901 =20 ________________________________ =20 ------------------------------------------=20 You are currently subscribed to the basinsinfo listserver.=20 To unsubscribe, send the words unsubscribe basinsinfo to lyris@lists.epa.gov=20 OR:=20 Use the listserver's web interface at https://lists.epa.gov/cgi-bin/lyris.pl to manage your=20 subscription.=20 OR=20 Contact the basinsinfo listserver owner at basinsinfo-Owner@lists.epa.gov=20 ------------------------------------------=20 ------------------------------------------=20 You are currently subscribed to the basinsinfo listserver.=20 To unsubscribe, send the words unsubscribe basinsinfo to lyris@lists.epa.gov=20 OR:=20 Use the listserver's web interface at https://lists.epa.gov/cgi-bin/lyris.pl to manage your=20 subscription.=20 OR=20 Contact the basinsinfo listserver owner at basinsinfo-Owner@lists.epa.gov=20 ------------------------------------------=20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7F4B1.28B2177C Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thanks, Tom.  I have actually = just resolved the alternation 0 flows problem by manually changing the = FTABLES for each of the RCHRES, i.e. eliminating any rows that had successive SA, = Vol, or Q values that were equal.  This is AFTER using the Alternative FTABLE = Method (from Technical Note 2 as per Ed’s posting) to create new tables. =  My resultant FTABLE for the headwater subshed is small (8 rows), but the = rest of the tables are between 12-17 rows, so I’m still doing better than = the Standard FTABLE calculation method would do for me.  I’m going to move = into longer runs and start turning WQ modules on now, so I’m sure that = there will be more questions…..

 

Thanks = again.

 

Bill Saunders

ATM-Newport

401-841-8901

 

=

From: Tom = Jobes [mailto:tjobes@sjrwmd.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September = 11, 2007 1:55 PM
To: Private list for = BASINS users
Subject: RE: [basinsinfo] = WinHSPF crashes in AUXIL module

 

Bill,=

 

First, I = agree that your units seem to be fine.

 

The = alternating 0 flows is generally an issue with the FTABLE being = “misshapen”.  By this I mean

that at a = given (generally small) storage, the corresponding outflow rate is so high = that it drains

the reach = in a single timestep.  Often this results from the first non-zero row = being too large, so

that the = linear interpolation of flow for small storages is very inaccurate.  Try inserting 1 or more

additional = rows below the first row, and make sure that their discharge rate is not = excessive.

 

Another = possibility is to set KS=3D0 in HYDR-PARM2 – this frequently gets rid of the = “sawtooth” flows,

at the = cost, however, of some accuracy.  With such small flows you’re = working with, perhaps this

should be a = last resort.

 

To respond = to your other email about FTABLE precision, I’m not aware of any way to = set the

significant = digits, but in most cases (not such tiny flows) the defaults seem to = suffice.  You can

however = open the UCI in a text editor and fix them manually if the interface is chopping = off

your = numbers too much.  Becoming comfortable with handling the UCI in a text editor = is a

useful = skill that I’d recommend cultivating, GUIs = notwithstanding.

 

Tom = Jobes
St Johns River Water Management District
tjobes@sjrwmd.com
386-329-4463 =

From: = Saunders, Bill [mailto:BSaunders@appliedtm.com]
Sent: Monday, September = 10, 2007 2:51 PM
To: Private list for = BASINS users
Subject: RE: [basinsinfo] = WinHSPF crashes in AUXIL module

 

Tom, thanks again for your input.  I’ve been able to view my hourly output and am seeing some = odd symptoms.  Although my inflow volumes don’t look too large, I tracked down the PERO and SURO values in the MASS-LINK portion of the = *.uci file.  They’re both 0.0833, which is what they should be to = convert inches of precip to acre-feet of runoff.  I referred to my areas in hectares because those are the units that BASINS wants in creating the = .wsd and .rch files for WinHSPF.  The resultant areas in the .wsd file are = indeed acres.  My precip values look to be inches with a max hourly value = of 1.4 for the simulation year.

 

Getting back to my observed irregularities, in my model, subwatershed 5 is a headwater that drains = to subshed 4, which drains to subshed 3, etc.  The outflow profiles = for subshed 5 and 3 seem to respond reasonably to precip input for a short = while, but then the model starts reporting 0 cfs outflows for every other hour = for these subsheds, creating a “sawtooth” effect in the = profile.  What is especially odd about this is that subshed 4, which is between = the two, doesn’t exhibit this behavior.

 

I also noticed that the = “alternating 0 cfs” problem seems to initiate at the same timestep (and = subshed) as those for which the continuity error (see below) occurs.  Every = continuity error in my *.ech file corresponds to a timestep and subshed for which 0 = cfs is reported (The continuity errors also occur at alternating time = steps).  However, once the alternating “0 cfs” condition starts, it = appears to continue for the subshed, regardless of whether I get a corresponding continuity error.  

 

Have you (or anyone else on the = list) seen this behavior before??

 

Bill = Saunders

ATM-Newport=

401-841-8901

 

=

From: Tom = Jobes [mailto:tjobes@sjrwmd.com]
Sent: Thursday, September = 06, 2007 2:41 PM
To: Private list for = BASINS users
Subject: RE: [basinsinfo] = WinHSPF crashes in AUXIL module

 

Bill,

 

Turning off the aux flags should = prevent the error you had before, which occurs trying to compute the = depth.  Ideally,

once all other issues are fixed, = you should be able to turn those flags back on without crashing the = run.

 

The PRINT-INFO tables (and = BINARY-INFO tables if used) control the timestep of the output.  The default of = 4

means monthly.  To get hourly = values, set the flag for HYDR to 2, and set PIVL equal to 1.  = Since this

creates a huge volume of output, = you might shorten your run to 1 month or less until you have = things

debugged - even 1 week will take = you to the first error you posted.

 

If the inflow volumes look too = large, check the values for PERO (for PERLND, SURO for IMPLND) to = make

sure the depths multiplied by the = acreages equal the volumes you see for the reaches, and that they = are

not unreasonably high.  You = cited your areas originally in hectares - are you using precip in inches or = mm?

 

The continuity error below could = have to do with numerical issues (such as roundoff) with the small = numbers

in your FTABLE - just make sure = that the relative error (RELERR) remains small (the example you = posted

is 0.837%).<= /o:p>

 

Tom = Jobes

SJRWMD

 

From: Saunders, Bill [mailto:BSaunders@appliedtm.com]
Sent: Thursday, September = 06, 2007 2:20 PM
To: Private list for = BASINS users
Subject: RE: [basinsinfo] = WinHSPF crashes in AUXIL module

Thanks, Tom.  You are correct, = the FTABLE values are small, as is the commensurate drainage area for that = RCHRES (9.63 hectare =3D 23.8 acres).  Your suggestions represent some = progress for me.  When I turn off the auxiliary flags for all 7 of my RCHRES, = the model runs for an initial 1-year test.  I do get multiple occurrences of = the following continuity error for 2 of my reaches, but it doesn’t = appear to be fatal (at least not for the 1st = year):

 

*******************************************************************= *****************

 *          =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;           *

 *  ERROR/WARNING ID:   238   1                  &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;          *

 *          =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;           *

 *  The continuity error reported = below is greater than 1 part in 1000 and is       = *

 *  therefore considered high.                 &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;*

 *          =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;           *

 *  Did you specify any = "special actions"?  If so, they could account for it.       *

 *          =             &= nbsp;                    &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;  *

 *  Relevant data are:           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp; *

 *  DATE/TIME: 1970/ 1/31 24: 0            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;    *

 *          =             &= nbsp;                  &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;    *

 *  RCHRES :    5            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;      *

 *          =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;           *

 *      RELERR       STORS        STOR       = MATIN      MATDIF           &= nbsp;          *

 *     0.00837     0.01000     0.01000     1.5890   -1.338E-02          &nb= sp;           *

 

 

I have no “special = actions” specified.  You mentioned to “look at the inflow coming in = during that hour”.  Please excuse my ignorance, but where are the = hourly inflows into each RCHRES stored/output??  My *.out file does show = monthly entries for each RCHRES and those values are all reasonably small (e.g. = just under 1 cfs for the furthest downstream RCHRES).  So the flows seem = to be within the range that the FTABLE can handle.  Still not sure what = is contributing to my initial error.  Maybe if I can get a look at the = hourly timesteps, I can find the point where the model is blowing = up……

 

Bill = Saunders

ATM-Newport=

401-841-8901

 

 

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------_=_NextPart_001_01C7F4B1.28B2177C-- ----------------------------------------------------------- X-Message-Number: 16 X-lyris-Id: 160509 Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 18:41:50 -1000 From: Krispin Fernandes Subject: Multiple exits in REACH with HSPF Is that possible add the percolation rate as one of the outflow from REACH? and how to set this part into the uci file. Krispin ----------------------------------------------------------- X-Message-Number: 17 X-lyris-Id: 160511 Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 09:04:44 -0500 From: "Eric Hempel" Subject: Fw: error when calculating subwatershed parameters This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 004D568186257355_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Any ideas what is going on here? thanks. BASINS 4 4.3.2591 (2/6/2007) System.OverflowException: Arithmetic operation resulted in an overflow. at Microsoft.VisualBasic.CompilerServices.Conversions.ToInteger(Object Value) at atcMwGisUtility.GisUtil.GridSlopeInPolygon(Int32 aGridLayerIndex, Int32 aPolygonLayerIndex, Int32 aPolygonFeatureIndex) at atcManDelin.frmManDelin.CalculateSubbasinParameters() at atcManDelin.frmManDelin.cmdCalculate_Click(Object sender, EventArgs e) at System.Windows.Forms.Control.OnClick(EventArgs e) at System.Windows.Forms.Button.OnClick(EventArgs e) at System.Windows.Forms.Button.OnMouseUp(MouseEventArgs mevent) at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmMouseUp(Message& m, MouseButtons button, Int32 clicks) at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m) at System.Windows.Forms.ButtonBase.WndProc(Message& m) at System.Windows.Forms.Button.WndProc(Message& m) at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage(Message& m) at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m) at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam) MapWinUtility (debug reporter) Assmebly Version: 2.0.832.50727 Operating System: Win32NT Service Pack: Service Pack 4 Major Version: 5 Minor Version: 0 Revision: 4 Build: 2195 --=_alternative 004D568186257355_= Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Any ideas what is going on here?

thanks.

BASINS 4 4.3.2591 (2/6/2007)

System.OverflowException: Arithmetic operation resulted in an overflow.
   at Microsoft.VisualBasic.CompilerServices.Conversions.ToInteger(Object Value)
   at atcMwGisUtility.GisUtil.GridSlopeInPolygon(Int32 aGridLayerIndex, Int32 aPolygonLayerIndex, Int32 aPolygonFeatureIndex)
   at atcManDelin.frmManDelin.CalculateSubbasinParameters()
   at atcManDelin.frmManDelin.cmdCalculate_Click(Object sender, EventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.OnClick(EventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Button.OnClick(EventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Button.OnMouseUp(MouseEventArgs mevent)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmMouseUp(Message& m, MouseButtons button, Int32 clicks)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.ButtonBase.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Button.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)

MapWinUtility (debug reporter) Assmebly Version: 2.0.832.50727
Operating System: Win32NT
Service Pack: Service Pack 4
Major Version:        5
Minor Version:        0
Revision:                4
Build:                2195

--=_alternative 004D568186257355_=-- ----------------------------------------------------------- X-Message-Number: 18 X-lyris-Id: 160623 Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 21:53:00 +0330 From: "Morteza Rayati Damavandi" Subject: a request Hi there I am PhD student and doing my thesis about "spatial discretization of basins and recognization the flood sensitive areas. Could you guide me, how can i take J2000 or j2k or jams SOFTWARE? Regards you ============================================== Morteza Rayati PhD Candidate College of Civil Engineering Iran University of Science and Technology Tehran, Iran ============================================== -----Original Message----- From: Partington.Ed@epamail.epa.gov To: "Private list for BASINS users" Cc: BSaunders@appliedtm.com Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 14:28:01 -0400 Subject: [basinsinfo] WinHSPF crashes in AUXIL module FTABLE Problem > FYI There is an automated method of creating your FTABLES based on > regression of observed data from streams in physiographic provinces > assumed to have similar landscape characteristics. > See Technical Notes #2 which was updated this year. > This PDF can be found at > http://www.epa.gov/waterscience/basins/docs/tecnote2.pdf > > At the very least this will quickly create an FTABLE in which you could > modify to meet your particular landscape characteristics. > > > EPA/OW/OST/SHPD/RSTSSB/BASINS > > > > > > "Tom Jobes" > om> To > "Private list for BASINS users" > 09/06/2007 01:29 > PM cc > > Subject > Please respond RE: [basinsinfo] WinHSPF crashes > to in AUXIL module > "Private list > for BASINS > users" > s.epa.gov> > > > > > > > Bill, > > Your FTABLE is truly tiny - it looks like you're overflowing the banks > with just a couple > of thousand cubic feet of storage. Just because your FTABLE is small > doesn't > mean that you can't easily overtop it if the drainage area isn't > correspondingly tiny. > > Try turning off all three auxiliary flags in HYDR-PARM1. Then look at > the inflow coming in > during that hour - I expect you'll see it is far larger than your > FTABLE > can handle. Probably > the cross-section and reach length are much too small for the flow > passing through. > > Hope this helps, > > Tom Jobes > SJRWMD > > > From: Saunders, Bill [mailto:BSaunders@appliedtm.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 12:12 PM > To: Private list for BASINS users > Subject: [basinsinfo] WinHSPF crashes in AUXIL module > > I am a new WinHSPF user and am getting this fatal error when I try to > execute the model: > > *********************************************************************** > ************* > * > * > * ERROR/WARNING ID: 341 4 > * > * > * > * DATE/TIME: 1970/ 1/ 6 5: 0 > * > * > * > * RCHRES: 5 > * > * > * > * The calculation of relative depth in subroutine AUXIL, using > Newton's * > * method of successive approximations, did not converge. Probable > reason -- * > * unusual or bad entries in RCHTAB. Relevant data are: > * > * > * > * A B C RDEP1 RDEP2 COUNT > * > * 435.60 2613.6 ********** ********** ********** 101 > * > * > * > > *********************************************************************** > ************* > > I set up the wsd, rch, and ptf files using BASINS 3.1. I understand > that the values for A and B above should be in acres (surface area), > but > the RCHTAB values for this RCHRES (5) should not lead to values that > high (see the RCHTAB below). Not sure how to determine what the > ???unusual or bad entries in RCHTAB??? are or how to revise them. Has > anyone had/seen this problem before?? Any insight would be greatly > appreaciated. > > Dep(ft) Area(acres) Vol (ac-ft) Outflow1 (ft3/s) > 0 1.267122E-02 0 0 > 0.0394 1.484343E-02 5.414883E-04 6.184715E-04 > 0.3936 3.439331E-02 0.0092623 3.572717E-02 > 0.492 3.982384E-02 1.291379E-02 5.576654E-02 > 0.615 0.1221868 2.710781E-02 0.1003669 > 0.738 0.1357631 4.297173E-02 0.2014786 > 12.669 1.452665 9.518741 334.3738 > 24.6 2.769567 34.70646 1877.815 > > > Thanks. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Bill Saunders > Applied Technology & Management > 360 Thames St., Suite 1B > Newport, RI 02840 > USA > > 401-841-8901 (phone) > 401-841-8903 (fax) > http://www.appliedtm.com > > > > ------------------------------------------ > You are currently subscribed to the basinsinfo listserver. > > To unsubscribe, send the words unsubscribe basinsinfo to > lyris@lists.epa.gov > OR: > Use the listserver's web interface at > https://lists.epa.gov/cgi-bin/lyris.pl to manage your > subscription. > OR > Contact the basinsinfo listserver owner at > basinsinfo-Owner@lists.epa.gov > ------------------------------------------ > ------------------------------------------ > You are currently subscribed to the basinsinfo listserver. > > To unsubscribe, send the words unsubscribe basinsinfo to > lyris@lists.epa.gov > OR: > Use the listserver's web interface at > https://lists.epa.gov/cgi-bin/lyris.pl to manage your > subscription. > OR > Contact the basinsinfo listserver owner at > basinsinfo-Owner@lists.epa.gov > ------------------------------------------ > > > ------------------------------------------ > You are currently subscribed to the basinsinfo listserver. > > To unsubscribe, send the words unsubscribe basinsinfo to > lyris@lists.epa.gov > OR: > Use the listserver's web interface at > https://lists.epa.gov/cgi-bin/lyris.pl to manage your > subscription. > OR > Contact the basinsinfo listserver owner at > basinsinfo-Owner@lists.epa.gov > ------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------------------------- X-Message-Number: 19 X-lyris-Id: 160624 Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 14:48:13 -0400 From: Thomas S Blue PE PLS Subject: HHWQ software applications - Re: a request This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------080706010301000702020700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Morteza, I am not sure about "J2000 or j2k or jams", but you can find information on many (150+) hydrologic, hydraulic, and water quality freeware and open source applications at "http://hhwq.blogspot.com". Please share this information with others to whom it would be helpful! -- Thomas S Blue PE PLS BLUE: Land, Water, Infrastructure tsblue@blwi.com www.blwi.com Morteza Rayati Damavandi wrote: > Hi there > > I am PhD student and doing my thesis about "spatial discretization of > basins and recognization the flood sensitive areas. Could you guide me, > how can i take J2000 or j2k or jams SOFTWARE? > > Regards you > > ============================================== > Morteza Rayati > PhD Candidate > College of Civil Engineering > Iran University of Science and Technology > Tehran, Iran > ============================================== > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Partington.Ed@epamail.epa.gov > To: "Private list for BASINS users" > Cc: BSaunders@appliedtm.com > Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 14:28:01 -0400 > Subject: [basinsinfo] WinHSPF crashes in AUXIL module FTABLE Problem > > >> FYI There is an automated method of creating your FTABLES based on >> regression of observed data from streams in physiographic provinces >> assumed to have similar landscape characteristics. >> See Technical Notes #2 which was updated this year. >> This PDF can be found at >> http://www.epa.gov/waterscience/basins/docs/tecnote2.pdf >> >> At the very least this will quickly create an FTABLE in which you could >> modify to meet your particular landscape characteristics. >> >> >> EPA/OW/OST/SHPD/RSTSSB/BASINS >> >> >> >> >> >> "Tom Jobes" >> > om> To >> "Private list for BASINS users" >> 09/06/2007 01:29 >> PM cc >> >> Subject >> Please respond RE: [basinsinfo] WinHSPF crashes >> to in AUXIL module >> "Private list >> for BASINS >> users" >> > s.epa.gov> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Bill, >> >> Your FTABLE is truly tiny - it looks like you're overflowing the banks >> with just a couple >> of thousand cubic feet of storage. Just because your FTABLE is small >> doesn't >> mean that you can't easily overtop it if the drainage area isn't >> correspondingly tiny. >> >> Try turning off all three auxiliary flags in HYDR-PARM1. Then look at >> the inflow coming in >> during that hour - I expect you'll see it is far larger than your >> FTABLE >> can handle. Probably >> the cross-section and reach length are much too small for the flow >> passing through. >> >> Hope this helps, >> >> Tom Jobes >> SJRWMD >> >> >> From: Saunders, Bill [mailto:BSaunders@appliedtm.com] >> Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 12:12 PM >> To: Private list for BASINS users >> Subject: [basinsinfo] WinHSPF crashes in AUXIL module >> >> I am a new WinHSPF user and am getting this fatal error when I try to >> execute the model: >> >> *********************************************************************** >> ************* >> * >> * >> * ERROR/WARNING ID: 341 4 >> * >> * >> * >> * DATE/TIME: 1970/ 1/ 6 5: 0 >> * >> * >> * >> * RCHRES: 5 >> * >> * >> * >> * The calculation of relative depth in subroutine AUXIL, using >> Newton's * >> * method of successive approximations, did not converge. Probable >> reason -- * >> * unusual or bad entries in RCHTAB. Relevant data are: >> * >> * >> * >> * A B C RDEP1 RDEP2 COUNT >> * >> * 435.60 2613.6 ********** ********** ********** 101 >> * >> * >> * >> >> *********************************************************************** >> ************* >> >> I set up the wsd, rch, and ptf files using BASINS 3.1. I understand >> that the values for A and B above should be in acres (surface area), >> but >> the RCHTAB values for this RCHRES (5) should not lead to values that >> high (see the RCHTAB below). Not sure how to determine what the >> ???unusual or bad entries in RCHTAB??? are or how to revise them. Has >> anyone had/seen this problem before?? Any insight would be greatly >> appreaciated. >> >> Dep(ft) Area(acres) Vol (ac-ft) Outflow1 (ft3/s) >> 0 1.267122E-02 0 0 >> 0.0394 1.484343E-02 5.414883E-04 6.184715E-04 >> 0.3936 3.439331E-02 0.0092623 3.572717E-02 >> 0.492 3.982384E-02 1.291379E-02 5.576654E-02 >> 0.615 0.1221868 2.710781E-02 0.1003669 >> 0.738 0.1357631 4.297173E-02 0.2014786 >> 12.669 1.452665 9.518741 334.3738 >> 24.6 2.769567 34.70646 1877.815 >> >> >> Thanks. >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> Bill Saunders >> Applied Technology & Management >> 360 Thames St., Suite 1B >> Newport, RI 02840 >> USA >> >> 401-841-8901 (phone) >> 401-841-8903 (fax) >> http://www.appliedtm.com >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------ >> You are currently subscribed to the basinsinfo listserver. >> >> To unsubscribe, send the words unsubscribe basinsinfo to >> lyris@lists.epa.gov >> OR: >> Use the listserver's web interface at >> https://lists.epa.gov/cgi-bin/lyris.pl to manage your >> subscription. >> OR >> Contact the basinsinfo listserver owner at >> basinsinfo-Owner@lists.epa.gov >> ------------------------------------------ >> ------------------------------------------ >> You are currently subscribed to the basinsinfo listserver. >> >> To unsubscribe, send the words unsubscribe basinsinfo to >> lyris@lists.epa.gov >> OR: >> Use the listserver's web interface at >> https://lists.epa.gov/cgi-bin/lyris.pl to manage your >> subscription. >> OR >> Contact the basinsinfo listserver owner at >> basinsinfo-Owner@lists.epa.gov >> ------------------------------------------ >> >> >> ------------------------------------------ >> You are currently subscribed to the basinsinfo listserver. >> >> To unsubscribe, send the words unsubscribe basinsinfo to >> lyris@lists.epa.gov >> OR: >> Use the listserver's web interface at >> https://lists.epa.gov/cgi-bin/lyris.pl to manage your >> subscription. >> OR >> Contact the basinsinfo listserver owner at >> basinsinfo-Owner@lists.epa.gov >> ------------------------------------------ >> > > > > ------------------------------------------ > You are currently subscribed to the basinsinfo listserver. > > To unsubscribe, send the words unsubscribe basinsinfo to lyris@lists.epa.gov > OR: > Use the listserver's web interface at https://lists.epa.gov/cgi-bin/lyris.pl to manage your > subscription. > OR > Contact the basinsinfo listserver owner at basinsinfo-Owner@lists.epa.gov > ------------------------------------------ > > --------------080706010301000702020700 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Morteza,

I am not sure about "J2000 or j2k or jams", but you can find information on many (150+) hydrologic, hydraulic, and water quality freeware and open source applications at "http://hhwq.blogspot.com".

Please share this information with others to whom it would be helpful!

-- 
Thomas S Blue PE PLS
BLUE: Land, Water, Infrastructure
tsblue@blwi.com www.blwi.com


Morteza Rayati Damavandi wrote: 
Hi there

I am PhD student and doing my thesis about "spatial discretization of 
basins and recognization the flood sensitive areas. Could you guide me, 
how can i take J2000 or j2k or jams SOFTWARE?

Regards you

==============================================
Morteza Rayati
PhD Candidate
College of Civil Engineering
Iran University of Science and Technology
Tehran, Iran
==============================================


-----Original Message-----
From: Partington.Ed@epamail.epa.gov
To: "Private list for BASINS users" <basinsinfo@lists.epa.gov>
Cc: BSaunders@appliedtm.com
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 14:28:01 -0400
Subject: [basinsinfo] WinHSPF crashes in AUXIL module FTABLE Problem

  
FYI There is an automated method of creating your FTABLES 
based on
regression of observed data from streams in physiographic provinces
assumed to have similar landscape characteristics.
See Technical Notes #2 which was updated this year.
This PDF can be found at
http://www.epa.gov/waterscience/basins/docs/tecnote2.pdf

At the very least this will quickly create an FTABLE in which you could
modify to meet your particular landscape characteristics.

           <partington.ed@epa.gov>
  EPA/OW/OST/SHPD/RSTSSB/BASINS
<http://www.epa.gov/waterscience/basins>



                                                                       
             "Tom Jobes"                                               
             <tjobes@sjrwmd.c                                          
             om>                                                     To
                                      "Private list for BASINS users"  
             09/06/2007 01:29         <basinsinfo@lists.epa.gov>     
  
             PM                                                      cc
                                                                       
                                                                Subject
              Please respond          RE: [basinsinfo] WinHSPF crashes 
                    to                in AUXIL module                  
              "Private list                                            
                for BASINS                                             
                  users"                                               
             <basinsinfo@list                      
                    
                s.epa.gov>                                             
                                                                       
                                                                       




Bill,

Your FTABLE is truly tiny - it looks like you're overflowing the banks
with just a couple
of thousand cubic feet of storage.  Just because your FTABLE is small
doesn't
mean that you can't easily overtop it if the drainage area isn't
correspondingly tiny.

Try turning off all three auxiliary flags in HYDR-PARM1.  Then look at
the inflow coming in
during that hour - I expect you'll see it is far larger than your
FTABLE
can handle.  Probably
the cross-section and reach length are much too small for the flow
passing through.

Hope this helps,

Tom Jobes
SJRWMD


From: Saunders, Bill [mailto:BSaunders@appliedtm.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 12:12 PM
To: Private list for BASINS users
Subject: [basinsinfo] WinHSPF crashes in AUXIL module

I am a new WinHSPF user and am getting this fatal error when I try to
execute the model:

***********************************************************************
*************
 *
*
 *  ERROR/WARNING ID:   341   4
*
 *
*
 *  DATE/TIME: 1970/ 1/ 6  5: 0
*
 *
*
 *  RCHRES:     5
*
 *
*
 *  The calculation of relative depth in subroutine AUXIL, using
Newton's           *
 *  method of successive approximations, did not converge.  Probable
reason --      *
 *  unusual or bad entries in RCHTAB.  Relevant data are:
*
 *
*
 *           A          B          C      RDEP1      RDEP2  COUNT
*
 *   435.60    2613.6     ********** ********** **********    101
*
 *
*

***********************************************************************
*************

I set up the wsd, rch, and ptf files using BASINS 3.1.  I understand
that the values for A and B above should be in acres (surface area),
but
the RCHTAB values for this RCHRES (5) should not lead to values that
high (see the RCHTAB below).  Not sure how to determine what the
???unusual or bad entries in RCHTAB??? are or how to revise them.  Has
anyone had/seen this problem before??  Any insight would be greatly
appreaciated.

Dep(ft)  Area(acres)      Vol (ac-ft)         Outflow1 (ft3/s)
0          1.267122E-02   0                      0
0.0394  1.484343E-02   5.414883E-04   6.184715E-04
0.3936  3.439331E-02   0.0092623         3.572717E-02
0.492    3.982384E-02   1.291379E-02   5.576654E-02
0.615    0.1221868         2.710781E-02   0.1003669
0.738    0.1357631         4.297173E-02   0.2014786
12.669  1.452665          9.518741          334.3738
24.6      2.769567          34.70646          1877.815


Thanks.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bill Saunders
Applied Technology & Management
360 Thames St., Suite 1B
Newport, RI  02840
USA

401-841-8901 (phone)
401-841-8903 (fax)
http://www.appliedtm.com



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--------------080706010301000702020700--


-----------------------------------------------------------

X-Message-Number: 20
X-lyris-Id: 160669
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 15:45:10 -0400
From: "Tom Jobes" 
Subject: RE: Multiple exits in  REACH with HSPF

Krispin,

Yes, it's possible to model GW losses via a reach exit, but you'll have
to come
up with your own method for estimating them, usually based on stage.
Simply
set Nexits=3D2, and set up your FTABLE for your GW losses are exit 1 and
downstream
flow is exit 2.  Make sure that you only route exit 2 downstream in the
SCHEMATIC
or NETWORK block.

Tom Jobes
St Johns River Water Management District
tjobes@sjrwmd.com
386-329-4463
-----Original Message-----
From: Krispin Fernandes [mailto:krispin@hawaii.edu]=20
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 12:42 AM
To: Private list for BASINS users
Subject: [basinsinfo] Multiple exits in REACH with HSPF

 Is that possible add the percolation rate as one of the outflow from
REACH? and how to set this part into the uci file.
Krispin


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X-Message-Number: 21
X-lyris-Id: 160679
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 10:01:23 +0300
From: janiaho@mappi.helsinki.fi
Subject: WinHSPF faileds to initialize

Dear all,
BASINS 4 gives message box called "BASINS HSPF Error" when  initializing 
WinHSPF and WinHSPF faileds to open. The full message is: "An error 
occured: Conversion from string "271997.080" to type 'Double' is not 
valid." I got this message with my native language before uninstalling .net 
framework 2 language pack. I have  reinstalled BASINS 4 and tried to 
fix .net framework 2 from the command line with: %InstallationPath%
\dotnetfx.exe /t:%temp% /c:"msiexec.exe /fvecms %temp%\netfx.msi". Gould I 
have some adivce how to fix this problem, please.

Thanks in advance,
Jani




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