{ NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT OF THE SENATE PROCEEDINGS.}
A BARREL. I THINK THAT WE SHOULD BE FAIR. I THINK WE ALSO HAVE
THE RIGHT TO PROPOSE AND PROPOUND SUCH LIMITATIONS TO THOSE WHO
HAVE COME BEFORE THE CONGRESS ASKING US TO INTERVENE IN WHAT
PREVIOUSLY WAS LITIGATION OUTSIDE OF THE AMBIT OF E NO TIME AT
LL. I AM SORRY I HA THIS POINT TO DISCUSS THAT PROPOSAL, BUT IT
IS BOTH NUANCED IN FAVOR OF THOSE ATTORNEYS WHO REALLY DID THE
YEOMAN'S WORK IN THIS CONNECTION AND MUCH LESS FAVORABLE TO
{17:00:38} (MR. GORTON) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }
THOSE WHO GOT IN ESSENTIALLY AFTER THE FACT AND WHO WILL BE
ENGAGED IN SUCH LITIGATION IN THE FUTURE. AND WITH THAT, MR.
PRESIDENT, I MOVE TO TABLE THE REED AMENDMENT AND ASK FOR YEAS
AND NAYS.
{17:00:56 NSP} (THE PRESIDING OFFICER) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }
THE PRESIDING OFFICER: IS THERE A SUFFICIENT SECOND?
THERE APPEARS TO BE. THE QUESTION IS ON THE MOTION TO TABLE TO
{17:01:18 NSP} (MR. GORTON) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }
THE AMENDMENT, 2702 BY THE SENAR FROM RHODE ISLAND. MR. GORTON: MR. PRESIDENT?
{17:01:21 NSP} (THE PRESIDING OFFICER) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }
THE PRESIDING OFFICER: THE SENATOR FROM WASHINGTON IS
RECOGNIZED.
{17:01:26 NSP} (MR. GORTON) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }
MR. GORTON: MR. PRESIDENT, I AM INFORMED I THINK LEADERS ON
BOTH SIDES ARE WILLING TO POSTPONE THIS VOTE FOR ROUGHLY TEN
MINUTES. I ASK UNANIMOUS CONSENT THAT THE VOTE ON THE MOTION TO TABLE TAKE PLACE AT 5:10 P.M.?
{17:01:37 NSP} (THE PRESIDING OFFICER) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }
THE PRESIDING OFFICER: IS THERE OBJECTION?
HEARING NONE, WITHOUT OBJECTION IT IS SO ORDERED RED LEAD MR.
{17:01:45 NSP} (MR. REED) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }
PRESIDENT -- MR. REED: MR. PRESIDENT?
{17:01:49 NSP} (THE PRESIDING OFFICER) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }
THE PRESIDING OFFICER: THE SENATOR FROM RHODE ISLAND.
{17:01:56 NSP} (MR. REED) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }
MR. REED: THE AMENDMENT BEFORE US IS MY AMENDMENT. IT IS FILM
MANY REASONS WHY THIS IS APPROPRIATE. THE MOST COMPELLING
REASON IS SIMPLY THE WRECK OF THE TOBACCO -- RECORD OF THE
TOBACCO INDUSTRY ITSELF. IT IS A RECORD THAT HAS SHOWN OVER
MANY MANY DECADES A CONSISTENT ATTEMPT TO MARKET TO CHILDREN.
THERE ARE OBJECTIONS WITH RESPECT TO THE FIRST AMENDMENT BUT
LET ME SUGGEST THAT FIRST, COMMERCIAL SPEECH UNDER THE DOCK
TRIP OF THE SUPREME COURT, IS NOT AFFORDED THE SAME LEVEL OF
PROTECTION AS PURE POLITICAL SPEECH. THIS IS CLEARLY A CASE OF
COMMERCIAL SPEECH. SECOND, THE TEST OF THE LEADING CASE,
{17:02:26} (MR. REED) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }
CENTRAL HUDSON, CLEARLY STATES THAT IF THERE IS A SUBSTANTIAL
GOVERNMENTAL INTEREST, IF THE PROPOSED LEGISLATION ADDRESSES
DIRECTLY THAT INTEREST, AND IF IT IS DONEY MEANS THAT ARE
NARROWLY FOCUSED AND NO MORE EXTENSIVE THAN NECESSARY THEN THAN
IT WOULD PASS THE TEST AND I SUBMIT THIS LEGISLATES DOES THAT.
THERE CAN BE NO MORE COMPELLING NATIONAL INTEREST THAN CURBING
TEENAGE SMOKING. UNDER THE RECORD OF THE F.D.A., THEY HAVE
DEMONSTRATED THAT IF WE TAKE EFFECTIVE ADVERTISING RESTRICTIONS
{17:03:02} (MR. REED) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }
AND PUT THEM IN PLACE, WE COULD ON AN ANNUAL BASIS SAVE 250,000
CHILDREN FROM AN ADDICTION TO NICOTINE. THAT IS A DIRECT,
MATERIAL, SIGNIFICANT CORRELATION BETWEEN THE SUBSTANTIAL
NATIONAL INTEREST AND THIS LEGISLATION. AND FINALLY, THIS
LEGISLATION IS NARROWLY FOCUSED. I SHOULD ALSO SUBMIT THAT THIS
LEGISLATION DOES NOT SPRING UP DID HE KNOW VO. WE HAVE A LONG
RECORD OF TRYING TO CONSTRAIN ACCESS TO TOBACCO PRODUCTS BY
CHILDREN. WE WENT IN THE 1970'S AND 1960 AS AND PUT WARNINGS ON
CIGARETTES THAT PROVED INEFFECTIVE. IN THE EARLY 1907'S WE
{17:03:35} (MR. REED) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }
BANNED TELEVISION ADVERTISING OF TOBACCO PRODUCTS. THAT IS
INEFFECTIVE. WE REACHED A CONSENSUS THAT IN ORDER TO GET THE
JOB DONE, THAT THE WHAT WE ARE HERE TO DO, IN ORDER TO
EFFECTIVELY PREVENT CHILDREN FROM BEING ADDICT TODAY NICOTINE,
WE HAVE TO HAVE REASONABLE CONTAINS ON ADVERTISING. THIS
LEGISLATION DOES THAT. I SHOULD POINT OUT MANY STATES IN THE
UNITED STATES IMPOSE CERTAIN RESTRICTIONS ON ADVERTISING TO
CHILDREN. FOR EXAMPLE, THE STATE OF UTAH PRECLUDES THE
PLACEMENT OF BILLBOARD OR OTHER TYPES OF VISIBLE ADVERTISING
FOR CIGARETTES WITHIN THAT STATE. I WOULD POINT OUT THAT IN
{17:04:11} (MR. REED) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }
MANY OTHER JURISDICTIONS, TEXAS, FOR EXAMPLE, THERE LIMITATIONS
ON HOW CLOSE ONE CAN PLACE A TOBACCO BILLBOARD WITHIN A SCHOOL.
ALL OF THESE HAVE BEEN IN EFFECT FOR MANY, MANY YEARS. THEY
HAVE BEEN TESTED. THEY ARE CONSTITUTIONALLY PERMISSIBLE. WE CAN
DO IT. AND INDEED WE MUST DO IT. WE HAVE LITERALLY WITHIN OUR
POWER THE OPPORTUNITY TO SAVE 250,000 CHILDREN A YEAR FROM THE
RAFF AJTS OF SMOKING. THAT'S THE CONCLUSION OF THE F.D.A. AFTER
THEIR EXTENSIVE, DETAILED RULE MAKING PROCESS. TO DO THAT, WE
{17:04:44} (MR. REED) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }
CAN AND WE MUST INSIST ON THIS TYPE OF REGULATORY AUTHORITY. IT
WILL PROVIDE A DEVICE THAT WILL LEAD THE COMPANIES I THINK TO
DO WHAT THEY HAVE YET BEEN ABLE TO DO, AND THAT'S STOP
MARKETING CIGARETTE PRODUCTS TO CHILDREN. WE SEE IT IN EVERY
MANNER AND EVERY FORM. I HAVE BEEN, FOR THE LAST SEVERAL DAYS,
POINTING OUT AN ADVERTISINGMENT, A MAIL SOLICITATION A 16
YEAR-OLD JUNIOR IN HIGH SCHOOL RECEIVED FROM PROVIDENCE, RHODE
ISLAND. IT WAS SLICK, SOPHISTICATED. IT WAS BASED UPON A ROCK
{17:05:20} (MR. REED) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }
CONCERT HE ATTENDED SELL MONTHS BEFORE. A CONCERT ATTENDED BY
MANY PEOPLE UNDER 18 YEARS OF AGE. IT WAS NOT COINCIDENTAL.
DELIBERATE, CALCULATED, FOCUSED ATTEMPT, BY THE INDUSTRY, USING
THE TALENTS OF ADVERTISING CZECHS ACTIVITIES, FOCUS GROUP
DIRECTORS, PEOPLE WHO UNDERSTAND PSYCHOLOGY AND THE DYNAMICS OF
YOUTH ADDICTION TO FIGURE OUT HOW THEY CAN GET THE MESSAGE
RIGHT IN THE HAND OF A 16 YEAR-OLD THAT SMOKING IS GOOD. NOT
ONLY GOOD, IT IS SOCIALLY DESIRABLE. WE SHOULDN'T STAND FOR
{17:05:54} (MR. REED) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }
THAT. WE DON'T HAVE TO STAND FOR IT. WE KNOW THAT FOR YEARS AND
YEARS AND YEARS THE TOBACCO INDUSTRY HAS BEEN MISLEADING THE
AMERICAN PUBLIC. THAT IS OBJECTIONABLE. BUT WHEN WE DISCOVER,
AS WE DOUGH FROM ALL OF THESE DOCUMENTS AND ALL THIS
LITIGATION, THAT THEIR TARGET HAS BEEN YOUNG CHILDREN, AS YOUNG
AS 12 AND 13 YEARS OLD, THAT BECOMES UNCONSCIONABLE. AND THE
CONSCIENCE OF THIS COUNTRY AND THE CONSCIENCE OF THIS SENATE
WILL BE TESTED TODAY. WILL WE TAKE EFFECTIVE STEPS TO PRECLUDE
ACCESS TO TOBACCO PRODUCTS FOR CHILDREN?
{17:06:28} (MR. REED) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }
THIS AMENDMENT IS CONSTITUTIONALLY SOUND. THIS AMENDMENT WILL
IN FACT PROVIDE DECISIVE AND EFFECTIVE CONTROLS ON TOBACCO
ACCESS BY YOUNG PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY. WE SHOULDN'T SHRINK
FROM THIS RESPONSIBILITY. WE SHOULD PASS THIS LEGISLATION TO
ENSURE THAT WHEN WE FINISH THIS GREAT DEBATE, AND WE LOOK
AHEAD, WE WILL BE CONFIDENT THAT WE HAVE TAKEN EFFECTIVE
PRACTICAL STEPS TO PREVENT CHILDREN FROM BEING ADDICTED TO
{17:07:02} (MR. REED) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }
NICOTINE AND NAB TOBACCO TOBACCO. IF WE DON'T DO THAT, MANY
MANY YOUNG PEOPLE, ESTIMATES FIVE MORATORIUM PEOPLE UNDER 18
WILL DIE PREMATURELY, WE CAN CAN STOP THAT IF WE VOTE TODAY,
SUPPORT THIS AMENDMENT. I RETAIN THE BALANCE OF MY TIME. AND
{17:07:18 NSP} (A SENATOR) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }
YIELD THE FLOOR. A SENATOR: MR. PRESIDENT?
{17:07:22 NSP} (THE PRESIDING OFFICER) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }
THE PRESIDING OFFICER: THE SENATOR FROM OKLAHOMA.
{17:07:25 NSP} (MR. NICKLES) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }
MR. NICKLES: MR. PRESIDENT, HOW MUCH TIME IS IN OPPOSITION TO
THE AMENDMENT?
{17:07:28 NSP} (THE PRESIDING OFFICER) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }
THE PRESIDING OFFICER: THE SENATOR FROM OKLAHOMA, THERE IS
THREE MINUTES REMAINING.
{17:07:34 NSP} (MR. NICKLES) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }
MR. NICKLES: MR. PRESIDENT, I WOULD URGE MY COLLEAGUES TO VOTE
AGAINST THIS AMENDMENT. FIRST LET ME JUST SAY TO THE
PROPONENTS, IF THEY WANT TO HAVE AN AMENDMENT TO BAN
ADVERTISING OR THE DEDUCTION OF ADVERTISING FOR TOBACCO
PRODUCTS, THEY CAN DO SO. BUT TO TURN IT OVER TO THE F.D.A. I
THINK MAY BE SOME. WORST TAX POLICY WE HAVE SEEN. THIS BILL
ALREADY HAS SOME. WORST TAX POLICY WE HAVE SEEN IN THE
LOOK-BACK PENALTIES I HAVE STATE ADD COUPLE TIMES ARE CLEARLY
NOT WORKABLE. IN I READ THIS AMENDMENT RIGHT, ADVERTISING IS
{17:08:05} (MR. NICKLES) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }
DEDUCTIBLE UNLESS IT DOESN'T COMPLY WITH F.D.A. REGULATIONS.
WHAT ARE THE F.D.A. REGULATIONS?
WELL, YOUR VIOLATION OF F.D.A. REGULATION IT IS YOU HAVE A BALL
CAP THAT SAYS MARLBORO ON IT. AVENUE STAFF MEMBER THAT WENT TO
A CAR RACE OR SOMETHING THAT HAS A BALL CAP THAT SAYS MARLBORO.
WELL, THEY WOULD BE IN VIOLATION. I DON'T KNOW IF A BALL CAP
UNDER THIS F.D.A. REGULATION THIS THEY WOULD BE IN VIOLATION OF
THE ADVERTISING RESTRICTION. THEY WOULD LOSE DEDUCTIBILITY OF
THEIR ADVERTISING EXPENSES. NOW, AGAIN, IF PEOPLE WANT TO BE
{17:08:39} (MR. NICKLES) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }
MORE DIRECT, LET'S BE MORE DIRECT. JUST SAY I HAVE AN AMENDMENT
TO DISALLOW ALL ADVERTISING EXPENSES FOR TOBACCO PRODUCTS. I
EXPECT SOMEBODY MIGHT HAVE THAT. THEY PROBABLY WILL HAVE THIS
ON THIS BILL. BUT TO SAY YOU CAN HAVE THE DEDUCTION UNLESS YOU
DON'T COMPLY WITH F.D.A. REGS IN TREATING F.D.A. REGS AS
SACROSANCT, AS IF THEY MAKE SENSE, SOME OF THEM DON'T MAKE
SENSE. FOR EXAMPLE, THERE IS AN F.D.A. REG THAT SAYS PEOPLE
SELLING TOBACCO MUST CHECK I.D.'S UP TO AGE 27. A LOT OF PEOPLE
{17:09:12} (MR. NICKLES) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }
AREN'T AWARE OF THAT. THAT'S PART OF THE SAME F.D.A. REGULATION
THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT. I DON'T THINK THAT'S WORKABLE. IT IS
LEGAL TO BUY CIGARETTES IF YOU ARE OVER 18, BUT F.D.A. CAME UP
WITH A REGULATION THAT SAYS WE ARE GOING TO MANDATE THAT YOU
CHECK IDENTIFICATION OF PEOPLE UP TO AGE 27. AND THEY ALSO HAVE
RESTRICTION ON ADVERTISING THAT SAYS YOU CAN'T HAVE A T-SHIRT.
YOU CAN'T HAVE A BALL CAP. OR TOBACCO COMPANIES YOU N'T
ADVERTISE DURING THE RACES. THIS IS AUTO RACING TIME.
INDIANAPOLIS 500. MY FRIEND FROM INDIANA IS HERE. MY GUESS IS
{17:09:43} (MR. NICKLES) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }
THERE IS A TRACK RUNNING AROUND THE -- CAR RUNNING AROUND THE
TRACK THAT HAS MARLBORO, MAYBE SOMEBODY SAID WAIT A MINUTE
THAT'S DIRECTED A AT YOUTH. I DON'T KNOW IF IT IS OR NOT, BUT
IF THEY DID IT, IF THEY SPONSORED A SPORTING EVENT THEY WOULD
BE IN VIE LAIFGS OF THIS PROVISION AND LOSE DUBITL OF
ADVERTISING. I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD HAVE F.D.A. MAKING TAX
POLICY. I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD HAVE F.D.A. DECIDING WHAT IS
COMPLIANCE OR WHETHER A PERSON OR COMPANY IS ALLOWED TO TAKE
THE DEDUCTION. IF SENATORS DON'T WANT TO HAVE TOBACCO
{17:10:16} (MR. NICKLES) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }
ADVERTISES, THEY WANT TO BAN IT, LET THEM INTRODUCE THAT ON A
FINANCE BILL OR A TAX BILL, BUT LET'S NOT TURN THAT KIND OF
AUTHORITY OVER TO F.D.A. I THINK THIS BILL IS ALREADY GRANTED
F.D.A. TOO MUCH AUTHORITY, INCLUDING THE AUTHORITY TO TOTALLY
BAN NICOTINE WITHOUT CONGRESSIONAL PRIOR APPROVAL, WHICH I
THINK IS A MISTAKE, AND I THINK THE I.D. CHECKUP TO AGE 27 IS A
MISTAKE, I THINK THAT'S F.D.A. OVERREACHING, AND I THINK THE
BAN ON BALL CAPS AN T-SHIRTS IS OVERREACHING. I DON'T WANT THEM
{17:10:49} (MR. NICKLES) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }
TARGETING TRAIRNKS EITHER, BUT I THINK TO TURN -- TAIRNKS
EITHER, BUT I THINK TO TURN TAX POLICY TO THE F.D.A. IS A
MISTAKE.
{17:11:01 NSP} (THE PRESIDING OFFICER) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }
THE PRESIDING OFFICER: THE SENATOR FROM RHODE ISLAND.
{17:11:03 NSP} (MR. REED) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }
MR. REED: WHATEVER TIME I HAVE LEFT I WOULD LIKE TO RESPOND.
{17:11:05 NSP} (THE PRESIDING OFFICER) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }
THE PRESIDING OFFICER: WITHOUT OBJECTION.
{17:11:08 NSP} (MR. REED) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }
MR. REED: FIRST OF ALL I WANT WANT TO LET THE SUGGESTION THAT
THIS HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH CHECKING IT AT A RETAIL STORE ATS
THAT NOT PART OF THE REGULATION.
{17:11:17 NSP} (THE PRESIDING OFFICER) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }
THE PRESIDING OFFICER: THE SENATOR FROM RHODE ISLAND TIME HAS
EXPIRED.
{17:11:18 NSP} (MR. REED) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }
MR. REED: THANK YOU.
{17:11:24 NSP} (THE PRESIDING OFFICER) { NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT }
THE PRESIDING OFFICER: THE QUESTION IS NOW ON THE MOTION TO
TABLE THE REED AMENDMENT, 2702. THE CLERK WILL CALL THE ROLL.
{END: 1998/06/15 TIME: 17-15 , Mon. 105TH SENATE, SECOND SESSION}
{ NOT AN OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT OF THE SENATE PROCEEDINGS.}