Hello to all- 


Regarding grammar terms and rules- 


I do tell students what the grammar terms are and the names of the verb tenses are so that later, when I want to explain some rules or refer to sentence structure, they will know the vocabulary of grammar.  


 Since I have beginners, I give them examples rather than rules, with a brief description of the sentence structure, because I am giving them a pattern to follow. That is all that they are ready to absorb at this stage. I also encourage them to use the reference pages with the verb tables when they have questions of usage.  


However, a more advanced student, or one who has studied English in formal classes in their own country, will ask you for the rules. An advanced student, especially someone who has to do a lot of writing for college or business, will find grammar rules very useful. We just need to be sure that the rules have good examples of the usage in context.  


Peace,  
Linda Selover 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Martin Senger" <MSenger at GECAC.org> 
To: "The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List" <englishlanguage at nifl.gov> 
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 10:20:41 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific 
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3952] Re: past progressive 




Pax et bonum! (peace & goodness) 

  

You’ve hit the nail on the head, Steve. Nobody in their right mind utilizes grammatical rules at the same time they are communicating. Only when we notice a problem will we access our grammatical “brain” to analyze the message. 

  

However, I believe that we as native speakers have that “reference library” in our brain, and refer to it automatically to decode a message. Our students do not have that luxury.  We must provide them with the opportunity to develop their own reference library. An example of this might be: “I will meet you at.” You know, having studied English, possibly from birth, that we need more information to complete the idea. We expect either a time or a place to follow. What I try to do is to get my students to explicitly answer the question “When?” every time they use a verb, thus completing the “idea” of the verb. 

  

How do I do this? I feel by constantly and consistently linking the vocabulary with its concise grammatical idea while reading/listening/speaking/writing, we can allow our students to “notice” the relationship on their own, intrinsically. It is only through contextual examples can they develop this. For example, when my students use the present simple, I ask them when is the action happening. By repeating (by me and the students) the words “every day” and making a circular motion with my hand, I reinforce the relationship between the form (spelling/word order) and the grammatical meaning. I do this day after day, month after month. If their idea wasn’t something that happened every day (“I go to doctor today.”) then I would model the correct form and explain why (“I am going to the doctor today/I am going to go to the doctor today”). 

  

One thing I do NOT do is memorization. I never stress the name of the forms (although I do repeat them every time). I DO stress the usage: which words (auxiliaries) go with which verb forms/spellings to create which temporal ideas. 

  

Just my two-cents worth! 

  

Martin E. Senger 

Adult ESL / Civics Teacher, 

G.E.C.A.C. / The R. Benjamin Wiley Learning Center 

Erie, Pa. 

Co-Director, 

ESL Special Interest Group 

Pa. Assoc. for Adult Continuing Education (PAACE) 

  


From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Steve Kaufmann 
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 11:24 AM 
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List 
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3950] Re: past progressive 

  

As a language learner, I find it difficult to absorb explanations of the "five ways that the subjunctive is used " or such like. I need to see these patterns repeatedly in context, read them, hear them and eventually try using them. Gradually they start to become a part of my language. 

It is difficult to understand these explanations let alone remember them. Yet, a familiarity with these rules does help me notice what is happening in the language. So my question to Martin was, how does he use this list. How much of this can be effectively explained? Can the learner absorb it? How is the explanation spaced out over time? How does the learner reach the point where he or she no longer needs to refer to this list. Kind of like Zhuangzi and the parable of the fish-net. Once you have caught the fish you no longer need the fish net. 

Steve Kaufmann 
www.lingq.com 


On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 7:34 AM, < Sandees32605 at aol.com > wrote: 





In a message dated 2/26/2009 9:45:25 AM Eastern Standard Time, steve at thelinguist.com writes: 



As a native speaker I do not think about the ways in which the progressive is used. 


Again, may I suggest that teachers at least glance at a good grammar text for non- learners and/or purchase at least one reputable reference for their own use? 


  


Wouldn't that be a little more useful than just a rehash of personal opinion and prejudices?  


  


Just a thought. 


  


Best, 


Sue Sandeen 


ESOL Gainesville, Fla 







A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! 


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