Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:28:39 EST
Subject: Fwd: [FRCtech2002] Digest Number 8

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There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

      1. Electronics, pneumatics, and entaglement
           From: "psychotron_ver1b" <docauerj@purdue.edu>
      2. Manufactured Replacements
           From: "lorobotics" <lorobotics@yahoo.com>
      3. Starting area
           From: "jstofflett" <jstofflett@yahoo.com>
      4. Re: Starting area
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
      5. Number of Drill Motors
           From: "cpolester" <n1zyd101@hotmail.com>
      6. Re: Number of Drill Motors
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
      7. Rule C12 clarification
           From: "lbarello" <lbarello@qwest.net>
      8. flanges on goal
           From: "noiceforme" <noiceforme@yahoo.com>
      9. Re: Rule C12 clarification
           From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
     10. Magnets
           From: "dbeck103" <dbeck@palisadessd.org>
     11. gas strut/shock included in parts kit?
           From: "mr_schutt" <mr_schutt@yahoo.com>
     12. Pneumatics
           From: "d_crios" <d_crios@yahoo.com>
     13. Chiaphua motor
           From: "brownscombec" <brownscombec@cs.com>
     14. allowed materials
           From: "electrizityfl" <electrizityfl@yahoo.com>
     15. Atwood Mobile Motor
           From: "jrock020202" <J_Sharockman@hotmail.com>
     16. Double robot points/DQ questions
           From: "krontonamon" <bobbyd@u.washington.edu>
     17. Game Update #1, Pinning Question
           From: "vicepro" <gonzalesvicente@otc.army.mil>
     18. Pneumatics Question
           From: "d_crios" <d_crios@yahoo.com>
     19. Making wheels have better traction
           From: 
     20. Circut Board
           From: "bitty_lar1" <lar1@bigfoot.com>
     21. Additional Material Change needs Clarifaction
           From: "drjoe047" <joseph.m.johnson@delphiauto.com>
     22. Another Question on Van Door motors
           From: "chubtoad6" <chubtoad6@yahoo.com>
     23. Another custom board question
           From: "bitty_lar1" <lar1@bigfoot.com>
     24. Lots 'o Questions
           From: "jhnnynothing" <jhnnynothing@yahoo.com>
     25. Cost of materials for robot
           From: "brownscombec" <brownscombec@cs.com>


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Message: 1
   Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 23:45:13 -0000
   From: "psychotron_ver1b" <docauerj@purdue.edu>
Subject: Electronics, pneumatics, and entaglement

3 questions concerning the rules:

1) Do all of the extra on board electronics have to be contained 
within the provided container, or just the circuit board itself?  We 
would like to purchase sensors from DigiKey, attach them to various 
parts of the robot, and run wires from them back to the circut board 
inside the box.

2) Would it be legal to remove the clear plasic cover from the 
pneumatic pressure gauges  The reason we would want to do this is to 
make a potentiometer rotate with the center shaft.  This would allow 
much more detailed feedback on the status of the pneumatic systems. 
The gauges are not explicitly forbidden in the rules and we do not 
believe that this would pose a safety hazard.

3) What exactly would lead to an entaglement penalty?  Would it be 
generaly posing a possible entaglement hazard, having  or deploying a 
component that poses a clear and present hazard, or actually 
entangling another robot?

Thanks,

Alex Docauer
Tech Advisor
Team 461





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Message: 2
   Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 01:08:37 -0000
   From: "lorobotics" <lorobotics@yahoo.com>
Subject: Manufactured Replacements

Since damage to robots is more possible this year, would it be legal 
for a team to bring a manufactured replacement to Regionals in 
anticipation or in the event of a major problem occuring with our 
robot? (Such as a fractured frame)




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Message: 3
   Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 02:27:30 -0000
   From: "jstofflett" <jstofflett@yahoo.com>
Subject: Starting area

What is the footprint  of the starting area for the robot at the 
beginning of a match?




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Message: 4
   Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 14:15:02 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Starting area

> What is the footprint of the starting area for the robot at the 
> beginning of a match?
A) The robot must "stand" on its 30" x 36" side in either of the 6" 
wide by 4" deep areas directly in front of your alliance's driver 
stations.  FIRSTsnow




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Message: 5
   Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 15:03:09 -0000
   From: "cpolester" <n1zyd101@hotmail.com>
Subject: Number of Drill Motors

In both of the kit parts lists (original one, and updated in Update 
1), the quantity/kit numbers for both Drill Drive Assembly and Drill 
Motor are listed as 3.  Only 2 Drill Housing Covers are allowed, 
however.  

Do we have 3 or 2 drill motors?




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Message: 6
   Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 16:22:24 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Number of Drill Motors

> In both of the kit parts lists (original one and updated in Update 
> #1), the quantity/kit numbers for both Drill Drive Assembly and 
Drill Motor are listed as 3.  Only 2 Drill Housing Covers are 
provided.  Do we have 3 or 2 drill motors?
A) You were provided with 3 drill motors and 2 housings and that is 
what you can use.  This was not an error.  FIRSTsnow




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Message: 7
   Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 23:11:59 -0000
   From: "lbarello" <lbarello@qwest.net>
Subject: Rule C12 clarification

Per C12 only one motor may be attached to a speed controller.  

Can one attach two speed controllers to one motor? 





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Message: 8
   Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 02:09:15 -0000
   From: "noiceforme" <noiceforme@yahoo.com>
Subject: flanges on goal

hey everyone. my team (581) is looking for the supplier of flanges for 
building a replica goal. we need 32 the only home depots in our area 
have about 9 total! any ideas on suppliers.  




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Message: 9
   Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 18:42:08 -0000
   From: "frcengineers" <frcengineers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Rule C12 clarification

> Per C12, only one motor may be attached to a speed controller.  Can 
one attach two speed controllers to one motor?
A) No.  FIRSTsnow




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Message: 10
   Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 15:06:01 -0000
   From: "dbeck103" <dbeck@palisadessd.org>
Subject: Magnets

The manual states that we can use an unlimited number of permanent 
magnets. does this mean we can make an electro magnet?  Thanks dbeck




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Message: 11
   Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 20:25:03 -0000
   From: "mr_schutt" <mr_schutt@yahoo.com>
Subject: gas strut/shock included in parts kit?

Team 894 would like to know if a gas shock or strut was included in 
the original or updated kit of parts.  Thank you very much.

Sincerely,
Paul Schutt




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Message: 12
   Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 20:35:03 -0000
   From: "d_crios" <d_crios@yahoo.com>
Subject: Pneumatics


How many pneumatic pistons are we allowed to have on the robot? Are 
there an ordering requirements for ordering more pistons than in kit? 
Can we order only a certain amount of pistons at at time?

Thanks for the help.




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Message: 13
   Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 22:28:31 -0000
   From: "brownscombec" <brownscombec@cs.com>
Subject: Chiaphua motor

How many Chiaphua motors may we use? There seems to be some dispute.

Brownscombe team 49




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Message: 14
   Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 03:16:07 -0000
   From: "electrizityfl" <electrizityfl@yahoo.com>
Subject: allowed materials

Would a material similar to that of the bottom a car matt be allowed 
for friction? 




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Message: 15
   Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 23:06:36 -0000
   From: "jrock020202" <J_Sharockman@hotmail.com>
Subject: Atwood Mobile Motor

Is there a shaft coupler to the Atwood Mobile motor spline?  I need 
to extend the spline so I can mount two sprockets on it.

Also, I could not find the specs on this motor.




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Message: 16
   Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 03:16:51 -0000
   From: "krontonamon" <bobbyd@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Double robot points/DQ questions

1) If a robot had the ability to extend itself in such a manner so as 
parts of it were in both zone 1 and zone 5 simultaneously at the 
conclusion of the match, will each alliance gain 10 points for having 
the robot in their zone?


2)When an alliance is disqualified, will the other alliance be 
allowed to continue to play out the remainder of the match?


Thanks for your time!




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Message: 17
   Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 02:47:27 -0000
   From: "vicepro" <gonzalesvicente@otc.army.mil>
Subject: Game Update #1, Pinning Question

Concerning the rule change/clarification on the pinning of the robot, 
does this include "lifting" the robot away from the playing field 
walls (i.e. in the middle of the playing field)?  Does the same ten 
seconds apply here?

Thanks,




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Message: 18
   Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 02:48:49 -0000
   From: "d_crios" <d_crios@yahoo.com>
Subject: Pneumatics Question

Is there a limit to the number of solenoids that can be on the 
robot? If so, please clarify how many single solenoids and how many 
double solenoids.




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Message: 19
   Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 14:39:08 -0000
   From: 
Subject: Making wheels have better traction

Our Team wants to know if you are allowed to add small studs with 
rounded tips to the wheel?

Lets say, under normal operation these studs do not damage the carpet 
but if your robot is hit or dragged by another robot damage does 
occur.  Is this damage considered to be made by your robot or the 
robot that dragged you?




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Message: 20
   Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 04:40:08 -0000
   From: "bitty_lar1" <lar1@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Circut Board

Section 2.1.7 of "The Robot" states:

"
Inputs to the circut board may be connected to the following sources:
     -20A or 30A circuit breaker outputs
     -Speed Controller or Relay module outputs
     -PWM or Relay outputs on Robot Controller
     -Switches, Potentiometers, the Yaw Rate Sensor, Optical Sensors,
      Motors, and other sensors allowed in the additional hardware
      list
"

We are also told that:

" ...High impeadance voltages monitoring inputs or low impeadance 
current monitoring inputs on the custom ciruit board connected to the 
robot outputs are acceptable..."

There seems to be confusion on the CheifDelphi fourms about this: Are 
we allowed to place a low-value resistor in series with the motor in 
order to measure current?  If so, I assume we are allowed to measure 
motor voltage with respect to ground as well?  If not, would it be 
acceptable to use a long length of wire to *act* as a series 
resistor?  Thanks for clearing this up!




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Message: 21
   Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 14:41:50 -0000
   From: "drjoe047" <joseph.m.johnson@delphiauto.com>
Subject: Additional Material Change needs Clarifaction

In Update #1, you change "Timing Belt -- Up to 20', single or double 
sided" to "Belts -- Any size, Any length for use with pulleys"  

Clear enough...  ...until you look 2 lines up the list 
"Chain/Belt -- Any length"  

What are we to make of this?

Does Belt need to be used with pulleys to be legal? 

How about chain?





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Message: 22
   Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 15:04:45 -0000
   From: "chubtoad6" <chubtoad6@yahoo.com>
Subject: Another Question on Van Door motors

I understand that the Van Door motors were not included with the 
kit. Are they available for purchase for use on the robot? Thank You




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Message: 23
   Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 19:03:26 -0000
   From: "bitty_lar1" <lar1@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Another custom board question

The manual states that the board *MUST* draw its power from a 20A 
circut breaker.  Would it be premissible to use a small lithium (or 
other "watch" battery) to preserve data in volitile RAM once the main 
power from the robot is removed?  If not, would using a high value 
capacitor (1F?) to perform the same function be allowed?




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Message: 24
   Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 19:42:41 -0000
   From: "jhnnynothing" <jhnnynothing@yahoo.com>
Subject: Lots 'o Questions

Our team was wondering if we could buy more Atwood motors, being as 
they told us where to buy them, or was this just incase we burn out 
the ones we were given? 

If we can buy more, is there any limit? 

Also could we buy more batteries as long as we only use one in the 
bot at a time? 

Can an arm be any length as long as it does not cause an entanglement 
with other bots. 

Is there any speed "limit" on the course?

Thank you in advance for your help.
      Nny




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Message: 25
   Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 22:25:55 -0000
   From: "brownscombec" <brownscombec@cs.com>
Subject: Cost of materials for robot

In past years there has been a limit on the cost of allowed materials 
for the robot that were used. I've been unable to find that in this 
years manual? Does this mean there is no limit? If there is one what 
is it? Where is it located?

Brownscombe team 49




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