From - Tue May 19 16:30:31 1998 Message-Id: <00001B05@ntiahq3.ntia.doc.gov> Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 14:59:44 -0500 From: "Karen Rose" To: Herschel Gelman Subject: Re: Who owns 12.0.0.0 ? AT&T or ARIN ? -Forwarded -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_184C41CF.D9B8D4B2" This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to properly handle MIME multipart messages. --=_184C41CF.D9B8D4B2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline -K --=_184C41CF.D9B8D4B2 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 15:00:19 -0400 From: "Becky Burr" To: Karen Rose Subject: Re: Who owns 12.0.0.0 ? AT&T or ARIN ? -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_184C41CF.D8B9D5B3" --=_184C41CF.D8B9D5B3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline --=_184C41CF.D8B9D5B3 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from localhost (jlewis@localhost) by tarkin.fdt.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA27156; Sat, 16 May 1998 00:17:29 -0400 Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 00:17:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Jon Lewis X-Sender: jlewis@tarkin.fdt.net Reply-To: Jon Lewis To: Jim Fleming cc: "'arin-council@arin.net'" , "'ARIN list'" , "'Antitrust List'" , "'antitrust@usdoj.gov'" , "'BBURR@ntia.doc.gov'" , "'Ira Magaziner'" Subject: Re: Who owns 12.0.0.0 ? AT&T or ARIN ? In-Reply-To: <01BD7F14.B3AA5540@webster.unir.net> Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On Thu, 14 May 1998, Jim Fleming wrote: > According to the following, AT&T is now allocating IPv4 addresses > in the 12.0.0.0 range and companies are advertising them on other > networks. This happens all the time when a company multihomes but doesn't have its own CIDR block. > As shown below[1] apparently ARIN maintains the ownership records > of these blocks. These "ownership records" look suspiciously like swipped networks. Last I checked, there's no charge for swipping space...and it's highly encouraged. > Why would a company pay ARIN if they can go to AT&T to obtain > address space ? Hmm...now you're suggesting ARIN go into the NSP business? Maybe ARIN can make money on the side selling T1's too. "Would you like T1's with your CIDR block?" > Why does AT&T have a /8 to allocate in this manner ? > How do other companies get /8s ? You get into the game very early before all the rules have been fleshed out. > [1] $ whois -h whois.arin.net 12.0.0.0 > Aborting search 256 records found ..... > 360 Group (NETBLK-360GROUP-1864)360GROUP-1864 12.7.18.64 - = 12.7.18.127 > AFL/ Air Line Pilots Association (NETBLK-AIRLINEPILOTS-640) AIRLINEPILOTS= -640 > 12.4.64.0 - = 12.4.64.255 This does demonstrate another problem caused by the 256 record truncation does by ARIN and Internic. How do I find the whois data at rs.arin.net for the 12/8 entry? It didn't show up in the above querry. It would be very nice if when you did a whois NETBLK-360GROUP-1864@rs.arin.net, instead of just telling you: Netname: 360GROUP-1864 Netblock: 12.7.18.64 - 12.7.18.127 it also told you the netnames of all parent blocks. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jon Lewis | http://noagent.com/?jl1 for cheap=20 Network Administrator | life insurance over the net. Florida Digital Turnpike | =20 ______http://inorganic5.fdt.net/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key____ --=_184C41CF.D8B9D5B3-- --=_184C41CF.D9B8D4B2-- From - Tue May 19 16:30:32 1998 Message-Id: <00001B07@ntiahq3.ntia.doc.gov> Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 14:59:47 -0500 From: "Karen Rose" To: Herschel Gelman Subject: Re: [apnic-talk] Is APNIC Only One of Three ? -Forwarded -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_27737EF0.DFBED2B4" This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to properly handle MIME multipart messages. --=_27737EF0.DFBED2B4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline -K --=_27737EF0.DFBED2B4 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 15:00:23 -0400 From: "Becky Burr" To: Karen Rose Subject: Re: [apnic-talk] Is APNIC Only One of Three ? -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_27737EF0.DEBFD3B5" --=_27737EF0.DEBFD3B5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline --=_27737EF0.DEBFD3B5 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from kwaifong.hk.super.net (root@kwaifong.hk.super.net [202.14.67.7]) by chaiwan.hk.super.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA16239; Sat, 16 May 1998 23:41:31 +0800 (HKT) Received: from mypc.hk.super.net (max8-12.hk.super.net [202.64.24.12]) by kwaifong.hk.super.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA29235; Sat, 16 May 1998 23:41:29 +0800 (HKT) Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 23:41:29 +0800 (HKT) Message-Id: <199805161541.XAA29235@kwaifong.hk.super.net> X-Sender: pindar@pop.hk.super.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 To: Jim Fleming , "'apnic-talk@apnic.net'" , "'arin-council@arin.net'" , "'ARIN list'" From: pindar@HK.Super.NET (Pindar Wong) Subject: Re: [apnic-talk] Is APNIC Only One of Three ? Cc: "'Adam Todd'" , "'BBURR@ntia.doc.gov'" , "'Ira Magaziner'" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline At 10:10 AM 5/16/98 -0500, Jim Fleming wrote: > >In the ad for a new "director general" the APNIC >claims to be one of only *three* organizations in >the world that coordinates resource allocation. > >Is that true ? [ snip ] >It is one of only 3 organisations who perform these functions world-wide."= [ snip ] Jim, I believe that the three organisations are refering to APNIC, ARIN and = RIPE. Could be four with AFRINIC ... Regards, Pindar PS: Apologies for not pruning the cc-list, which is getting a tad long. --=_27737EF0.DEBFD3B5-- --=_27737EF0.DFBED2B4-- From - Tue May 19 16:44:02 1998 Message-Id: <00001ADE@ntiahq3.ntia.doc.gov> Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 13:17:11 -0400 From: "Karen Rose" To: Herschel Gelman Subject: FW: Think Global and Act Local -Forwarded -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_C99D901A.A4C5A9C8" This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to properly handle MIME multipart messages. --=_C99D901A.A4C5A9C8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline -K --=_C99D901A.A4C5A9C8 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 13:07:08 -0400 From: "Becky Burr" To: Karen Rose Subject: FW: Think Global and Act Local -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_C99D901A.A5C4A8C9" --=_C99D901A.A5C4A8C9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline --=_C99D901A.A5C4A8C9 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from webster.unir.net ([207.32.159.5]) by doorstep.unety.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA04593; Sun, 17 May 1998 19:46:50 -0500 Received: by webster.unir.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BD81CB.C36A26E0@webster.unir.net>; Sun, 17 May 1998 19:41:19 -0500 Message-ID: <01BD81CB.C36A26E0@webster.unir.net> From: Jim Fleming To: "'BBURR@ntia.doc.gov'" Cc: "'Ira Magaziner'" Subject: FW: Think Global and Act Local Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 19:41:17 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline ---------- From: Jim Fleming[SMTP:JimFleming@unety.net] Sent: Sunday, May 17, 1998 7:34 PM To: 'Andy Linton'; 'Adam Todd' Cc: APNIC-TALK@apnic.net; asjl@NETLINK.CO.NZ; davidc@apnic.net;=20 ec-satou@kdd.co.jp; intl-wg@nic.ad.jp; ip-wg@nic.ad.jp;=20 kdd-hk@ats.sjk.kdd.co.jp; 'maruyama@nic.ad.jp'; mo-abe@kdd.co.jp;=20 sanjib@MOS.COM.NP Subject: RE: Think Global and Act Local On Sunday, May 17, 1998 7:14 PM, Andy=20 Linton[SMTP:Andy.Linton@netlink.co.nz] wrote: @> @> ...think global and act local... @ @And the local action you suggest I take is...? @-- @Mailto:Andy.Linton@netlink.co.nz Tel: +64 4 916 5312 If you want to help the Internet grow, especially in New Zealand, I would work with people in that region to help organize the G6 TLD. Adam Todd in Australia can probably provide more details. More specifically, you could work on these delegations... 6:71 NZL (NEW-ZEALAND) 6:130 NZ (NEW-ZEALAND) If you want to get very involved, you could check out your "neighbor net" situation here: http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/domainname/130dftmail/unir.txt As an example, you could view NZL as seat 6:71 in a large auditorium. You would contact the people sitting around you. .TK might be easy to find and also .TUV. Let's say you could locate people backing those TLDs. Then the three of you become the trustees for all of the TLDs in between. You might find the people backing .NOC and then you have a complete neighbor net because all of the seats are filled from .TK to .NZL. That becomes your local area to grow. 6:69 TK (TOKELAU) 6:70 NOC 6:71 NZL (NEW-ZEALAND) 6:72 GARAGES 6:73 FLOUR 6:74 FIELD 6:75 TUV (TUVALU) On the other side of you, between .NZL and .TUV you may have more work to do. If you find out that those TLDs (.GARAGES, .FLOUR, .FIELD) are no longer supported you might want to change the names and invite new people to join your neighbor net. G6 only has 256 TLDs to coordinate. By working together with all of the other people in that G-overnance region, you keep the thing together. Eventually, you will run across 6:130 NZ (NEW-ZEALAND) which is a little closer to home. Check out the neighbor net for that seat (6:130) and teach them how it works.... G6 will only be as good as the people there make it... ...have a ball... - Jim Fleming Unir Corporation - http://www.unir.net IPv8 - Designed for the Rest of the Human Race AM Radio Stations ---> http://www.DOT.AM --=_C99D901A.A5C4A8C9-- --=_C99D901A.A4C5A9C8-- From - Tue May 19 16:44:03 1998 Message-Id: <00001AE0@ntiahq3.ntia.doc.gov> Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 13:17:12 -0400 From: "Karen Rose" To: Herschel Gelman Subject: RE: FW: Legislative RED ALERT! -Forwarded -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_C99D901A.A6C7ABCA" This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to properly handle MIME multipart messages. --=_C99D901A.A6C7ABCA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline -K --=_C99D901A.A6C7ABCA Content-Type: message/rfc822 Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 13:07:09 -0400 From: "Becky Burr" To: Karen Rose Subject: RE: FW: Legislative RED ALERT! -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_C99D901A.A7C6AACB" --=_C99D901A.A7C6AACB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline --=_C99D901A.A7C6AACB Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from webster.unir.net ([207.32.159.5]) by doorstep.unety.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA04962; Sun, 17 May 1998 22:14:39 -0500 Received: by webster.unir.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BD81E0.6A542A00@webster.unir.net>; Sun, 17 May 1998 22:09:09 -0500 Message-ID: <01BD81E0.6A542A00@webster.unir.net> From: Jim Fleming To: "inet-access@earth.com" Cc: "'BBURR@ntia.doc.gov'" , "'Ira Magaziner'" Subject: RE: FW: Legislative RED ALERT! Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 22:09:08 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On Sunday, May 17, 1998 9:15 PM, J.D. Falk[SMTP:jdfalk@vix.com] wrote: @ @ That's why the Internet industry needs to have a strong and @ vocal presence on the Hill. As long as we're hiding behind @ well-worded posts that our elected representatives would have @ no idea how to find, we're gonna continue to get shafted. @ I did not realize that you were hiding. :-) People in Washington, D.C. have e-mail addresses. Why not use them ? If you do, they may post your messages... http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/domainname/130dftmail/ - Jim Fleming Unir Corporation - http://www.unir.net IPv8 - Designed for the Rest of the Human Race AM Radio Stations ---> http://www.DOT.AM --=_C99D901A.A7C6AACB-- --=_C99D901A.A6C7ABCA-- From - Tue May 19 16:44:03 1998 Message-Id: <00001AE2@ntiahq3.ntia.doc.gov> Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 13:17:14 -0400 From: "Karen Rose" To: Herschel Gelman Subject: FW: Filtering /19s (WAS: DUAL T's OR MULTIHOME) -Forwarded -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_C89C911B.A0C1ADCC" This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to properly handle MIME multipart messages. --=_C89C911B.A0C1ADCC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline -K --=_C89C911B.A0C1ADCC Content-Type: message/rfc822 Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 13:07:10 -0400 From: "Becky Burr" To: Karen Rose Subject: FW: Filtering /19s (WAS: DUAL T's OR MULTIHOME) -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_C89C911B.A1C0ACCD" --=_C89C911B.A1C0ACCD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline --=_C89C911B.A1C0ACCD Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from webster.unir.net ([207.32.159.5]) by doorstep.unety.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA05003; Sun, 17 May 1998 22:26:42 -0500 Received: by webster.unir.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BD81E2.1918F560@webster.unir.net>; Sun, 17 May 1998 22:21:11 -0500 Message-ID: <01BD81E2.1918F560@webster.unir.net> From: Jim Fleming To: "'patrick@priori.net'" Cc: "'arin-council@arin.net'" , "'BBURR@ntia.doc.gov'" , "'Ira Magaziner'" , "'ARIN list'" Subject: FW: Filtering /19s (WAS: DUAL T's OR MULTIHOME) Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 22:21:10 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Patrick, Hopefully, there will be a change in the administration of the IANA Inc. very soon. When that happens you may have a better chance at getting the address space that you need. Jim Fleming ---------- From: Patrick W. Gilmore[SMTP:patrick@priori.net] Sent: Sunday, May 17, 1998 8:57 PM To: inet-access@earth.com Subject: Re: Filtering /19s (WAS: DUAL T's OR MULTIHOME) At 05:35 PM 5/17/98 -0500, Jeff Carneal wrote: >On Sun, 17 May 1998, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote: > >> Avi, you say you aggregate before you send out the announcement. How = do >> you expect your downstream to get any type of real value out of >> multi-homing with you? People have told me DIGEX aggregates before >> announcing. I'm wondering why anyone would even think of multi-homing = with >> DIGEX? > >I'm wondering what your rationale is for thinking this is a problem? = This >is absolutely what you'd want if you were connected to DIGEX and wanted >your routes to slip through the filters of...oh...say sprint? I'm not suggesting the DIGEX not announce the aggregate. Priori announces their full CIDR as the full CIDR, and I'd expect everyone to do the same. I'm suggesting that if they do not announce the more specific route originated from your ASN *in addition to* the aggregate (as Priori does), then multi-homing with DIGEX is rather useless. Hell, if Digex accepts = the more specific from their peers (and a quick check of nitrous shows that they do - at least from me), then it's possible that NONE of the traffic will flow down your link to them. They might pick the more specific route and send the packets to your other upstream. Of course, they might hear your more specific route internally and just aggregate on the way out. = But then only DIGEX and the backbones filtering the more specifics would send traffic down your DIGEX line. I find this truly mind-boggling. DIGEX has been very considerate to us as a peer, and the engineer with whom I worked (Hank Kilmer formerly of Sprint) was cluefull, and very nice guy. ;) I guess things are either in "transition" and stuff is getting lost in the translation, or something is really FUBAR'ed over there. BTW, there is still a problem if everyone filters more specifics. If *everyone* filters, then no traffic will flow down your second link. = Well, unless con ARIN into a /19 of your own. It seems like you just can't win. Why don't we just give up and all = single home until we're big enough to have our own /19. Oh, and all you people with small but busy web farms, or people using stuff like Mega-POP, and most of all, people who are trying - and succeeding - to conserve address space extremely well - guess what? You're SOL. You'll never get to multi-home. Unless you can find a couple upstreams who happen to be close enough to use something like Dave's idea of mutual /19s, you just can't = get any real benefit out of multi-homing. The people who happen to have the "need" more IP space - whether their business is bigger, more important, more complicated, more cluefull, more whatever, or whether they just suck at conservation and can con ARIN (or whomever) into a portable block - get to multi-home. And you get to pray your upstream is perfect. The longer this goes on, the more discouraged I get. It seems like the = big guys just care about squishing anyone's announcement that's under a /19 - or even if it's larger than a /19 but just part of a larger CIDR. I see stuff like UUNET getting a /11 and wonder how the startup type company = will ever be able to compete. > Jeff Carneal - Sys Admin - Apex Internet =20 TTFN, patrick ************************************************************** Patrick W. Gilmore voice: +1-650-482-2840 Director of Operations, CCIE #2983 fax: +1-650-482-2844 PRIORI NETWORKS, INC. http://www.priori.net "Tomorrow's Performance.... Today" ************************************************************** --=_C89C911B.A1C0ACCD-- --=_C89C911B.A0C1ADCC-- From - Tue May 19 16:44:04 1998 Message-Id: <00001AE4@ntiahq3.ntia.doc.gov> Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 13:17:16 -0400 From: "Karen Rose" To: Herschel Gelman Subject: Why did Geneva not Deliver the $1,000,000 ? -Forwarded -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_C89C911B.A2C3AFCE" This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to properly handle MIME multipart messages. --=_C89C911B.A2C3AFCE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline -K --=_C89C911B.A2C3AFCE Content-Type: message/rfc822 Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 13:07:11 -0400 From: "Becky Burr" To: Karen Rose Subject: Why did Geneva not Deliver the $1,000,000 ? -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_C89C911B.A3C2AECF" --=_C89C911B.A3C2AECF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline --=_C89C911B.A3C2AECF Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from webster.unir.net ([207.32.159.5]) by doorstep.unety.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA05126; Sun, 17 May 1998 23:39:11 -0500 Received: by webster.unir.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BD81EC.390C1500@webster.unir.net>; Sun, 17 May 1998 23:33:40 -0500 Message-ID: <01BD81EC.390C1500@webster.unir.net> From: Jim Fleming To: "'Don Heath'" Cc: "'BBURR@ntia.doc.gov'" , "'DOMAIN-POLICY@LISTS.INTERNIC.NET'" , "'Ira Magaziner'" Subject: Why did Geneva not Deliver the $1,000,000 ? Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 23:33:39 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Don, Did the following lack of follow-through on the part of the Geneva, Switzerland organizing committee have anything to do with the fact that the ISOC has not been able to deliver CORE the various TLD entries in the Root Name Servers that were promised ? @@@@@ http://www.isoc.org/isoc/general/trustees/98-022.shtml "He pointed out that the original projections from the Geneva organizing committee for sponsorships of well over $1,000,000, were well short of their mark; and, accordingly, in January, we were compelled to take action to consider a change in venue. The amount raised by that = date (January) was essentially nil." @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ --=_C89C911B.A3C2AECF-- --=_C89C911B.A2C3AFCE-- From - Tue May 19 16:44:04 1998 Message-Id: <00001AE6@ntiahq3.ntia.doc.gov> Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 13:17:18 -0400 From: "Karen Rose" To: Herschel Gelman Subject: FW: NANOG and the USG Ex-Parte Rules -Forwarded -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_CF9B961C.9CFD91F0" This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to properly handle MIME multipart messages. --=_CF9B961C.9CFD91F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline -K --=_CF9B961C.9CFD91F0 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 13:07:12 -0400 From: "Becky Burr" To: Karen Rose Subject: FW: NANOG and the USG Ex-Parte Rules -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_CF9B961C.9DFC90F1" --=_CF9B961C.9DFC90F1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline --=_CF9B961C.9DFC90F1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from webster.unir.net ([207.32.159.5]) by doorstep.unety.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA05282; Mon, 18 May 1998 00:27:57 -0500 Received: by webster.unir.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BD81F3.096E46E0@webster.unir.net>; Mon, 18 May 1998 00:22:27 -0500 Message-ID: <01BD81F3.096E46E0@webster.unir.net> From: Jim Fleming To: "'BBURR@ntia.doc.gov'" Cc: "'Ira Magaziner'" Subject: FW: NANOG and the USG Ex-Parte Rules Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 00:22:25 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline ---------- From: Hank Nussbacher[SMTP:hank@ibm.net.il] Sent: Monday, May 18, 1998 1:19 AM To: nanog@merit.edu Subject: Re: NANOG and the USG Ex-Parte Rules At 02:04 PM 5/17/98 -0500, Jim Fleming wrote: NANOG is supposed to be be a "controlled" list - can't the owner remove posting privs for Jim? -Hank > >NANOG is supported by Merit > and Merit is supported by the NSF > and the NSF is supported by the U.S. Government > and the U.S. Government is supported by U.S. = taxpayers... > >This makes NANOG conversations about Internet Governance >topics subject to the Ex-Parte rules of the U.S. Government. > >I will try to include the right CCs so that the NTIA's web site >can be up to date. > >http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/domainname/130dftmail/ > > >- >Jim Fleming >Unir Corporation - http://www.unir.net >IPv8 - Designed for the Rest of the Human Race >AM Radio Stations ---> http://www.DOT.AM > > --=_CF9B961C.9DFC90F1-- --=_CF9B961C.9CFD91F0-- From - Tue May 19 16:44:05 1998 Message-Id: <00001AEA@ntiahq3.ntia.doc.gov> Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 13:17:20 -0400 From: "Karen Rose" To: Herschel Gelman Subject: RE: More on Neighbor Net for .WINE -Forwarded -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_CE9A971D.9EFF93F2" This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to properly handle MIME multipart messages. --=_CE9A971D.9EFF93F2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline -K --=_CE9A971D.9EFF93F2 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 13:07:13 -0400 From: "Becky Burr" To: Karen Rose Subject: RE: More on Neighbor Net for .WINE -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_CE9A971D.9FFE92F3" --=_CE9A971D.9FFE92F3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline --=_CE9A971D.9FFE92F3 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from webster.unir.net ([207.32.159.5]) by doorstep.unety.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id HAA07351; Mon, 18 May 1998 07:26:22 -0500 Received: by webster.unir.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BD822D.7CF4D040@webster.unir.net>; Mon, 18 May 1998 07:20:51 -0500 Message-ID: <01BD822D.7CF4D040@webster.unir.net> From: Jim Fleming To: Annie Renard , "'Hank Nussbacher'" Cc: "'BBURR@ntia.doc.gov'" , "'Dave Crocker'" , "'DOMAIN-POLICY@LISTS.INTERNIC.NET'" , "'John Gilmore'" , "'Don Heath'" , "'Ira Magaziner'" Cc: "'Kent Crispin'" , "'Michael Dillon'" , "'Jon Postel'" , "'Scott Bradner'" , "tld-wg@ripe.net" , "'vinton g. cerf'" Subject: RE: More on Neighbor Net for .WINE Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 07:20:50 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On Monday, May 18, 1998 3:58 AM, Hank Nussbacher[SMTP:hank@ibm.net.il] = wrote: @At 02:41 PM 5/15/98 +0200, Annie Renard wrote: @> @> In your previous mail you wrote: @> @> Until we get the entire list filled in, you may have @> to expand the diameter of your neighbor net to @> include more G:S slots. @> =20 @> http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/domainname/130dftmail/unir.txt @> =20 @> G:S TLD RP Web Site @> -------------------------------------------------- @> 3:207 FR (FRANCE) <------ @> 3:208 ATHENS @> 3:209 FLAKE @> 3:210 DK (DENMARK) <------- @> 3:211 MLT (MALTA) <----- @> 3:212 VIDEO @> 3:213 WINE <---------- jc.praud@ludexpress.com ?? web site ?? @> 3:214 RAILWAY @> 3:215 BALLOON @> 3:216 SVK (SLOVAKIA-(Slovak-Republic)) <----- @> 3:217 DNK (DENMARK) <----- @> 3:218 GRC (GREECE) <----- @> -------------------------------------------------- @> =20 @> The following is a good source of leads for the above @> TLDs with the arrows. @> =20 @> http://www.ripe.net/centr/tld.html @> =20 @> For slots where we can not locate people, for example, @> 3:215 BALLOON, the people around that slot become @> the "managers" of the slot and help someone introduce @> a new TLD alias for the slot. @> =20 @> For example, David Rogers might want to use that slot @> for the .LTD TLD he is working on. Via the neighbor net @> approach, people can easily find a slot and add a new @> TLD that does not conflict with other TLDs. This is very @> much like entering an auditorium with 2,048 seats, @> looking around, and asking people..."is that seat taken ?". @> =20 @>>>> what is this raving ??? @ @Annie, @ @Jim is what one science fiction story termed an "agent provocateur" = (where, @when the world is totally wired and everyone is on email, along comes a @person who talks the talk and walks the walk but is a bit demented and = only @a few people can see thru his techno-mumbo-jumbo as being garbage). His @purpose in life is to drum up controversy and to have people run off in @directions that are unproductive. Becky Burr, Ira Magaziner, Wilkenson = and @other political people cannot often differentiate people who know what = they @are talking about and others who mention IPv8 and who sound knowledgable. @ @It is our responsibility to make sure that our voice is heard and not = Jim's. @He emails more than we do, he is far more persistent than we are, but if = we @fail to counter his "ravings" - we will soon see people discussing the @benefits of stargates and IPv8 galaxies and balloons. @ @-Hank @ Hank, Some people remember that you were a member of the Blue Ribbon IAHC. Just because you did not get mentioned in the list below does not mean that you are not remembered. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Here are the people that I feel are MOST responsible for the IAHC/CORE plan. I hope that history remembers what they have contributed in this area. 1. Jon Postel - IANA/USC/ISI 2. Don Heath - ISOC 3. Dave Crocker - IMC 4. Robert Shaw - ITU 5. George Strawn - NSF 6. David Maher - McDonalds 7. John Gilmore - EFF 8. Vinton Cerf - MCI 9. Michael Dillon - Priori 10. Gordon Cook - Cook Report 11. Perry Metzger - NY 12. Bill Manning - USC/ISI 13. Scott Bradner - ISOC 14. Ken Crispin - LBL 15. Rick Wesson - SF/CA =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D I find it interesting to read that you think your voice should be heard over others. In my opinion, your voice has been heard and many people have decided, on their own, to listen to other voices. This is what freedom and choice are all about, at least in the United States of America. You might want to keep that in mind over there in Israel. Also, you might want to note that your recent request to have me removed from the North American Network Operators (NANOG) mailing list (partly funded by U.S. Government grants) was not well received. I am curious why you think that you can sit over there in Israel and dictate who should and should not be on a public mailing list in the U.S. Is this the sort of thinking that came from being on the IAHC ? Please explain in more detail what you are trying to do... - Jim Fleming Unir Corporation - http://www.unir.net IPv8 - Designed for the Rest of the Human Race AM Radio Stations ---> http://www.DOT.AM --=_CE9A971D.9FFE92F3-- --=_CE9A971D.9EFF93F2-- From - Tue May 19 16:44:05 1998 Message-Id: <00001AEE@ntiahq3.ntia.doc.gov> Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 13:17:22 -0400 From: "Karen Rose" To: Herschel Gelman Subject: Making Your Voice Heard -Forwarded -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_CE9A971D.98F995F4" This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to properly handle MIME multipart messages. --=_CE9A971D.98F995F4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline -K --=_CE9A971D.98F995F4 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 13:07:14 -0400 From: "Becky Burr" To: Karen Rose Subject: Making Your Voice Heard -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_CE9A971D.99F894F5" --=_CE9A971D.99F894F5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline --=_CE9A971D.99F894F5 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from webster.unir.net ([207.32.159.5]) by doorstep.unety.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id HAA07416; Mon, 18 May 1998 07:59:53 -0500 Received: by webster.unir.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BD8232.2B705640@webster.unir.net>; Mon, 18 May 1998 07:54:22 -0500 Message-ID: <01BD8232.2B705640@webster.unir.net> From: Jim Fleming To: "'Hank Nussbacher'" Cc: "'BBURR@ntia.doc.gov'" , "'DOMAIN-POLICY@LISTS.INTERNIC.NET'" , "'Ira Magaziner'" , "'Scott Bradner'" , "'tld-wg@ripe.net'" Subject: Making Your Voice Heard Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 07:54:21 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Hank, I do not think that people like myself and others should be required to advertise your meetings of the the Internet Society in Israel. I think that it is up to you to join the various open discussions in these areas and tell people what you are doing. You and Scott Bradner should be pros at this by now. I am sorry that people may have missed your meeting below. Maybe next year you can make it more widely known. That is your job, not my job. In the meantime, we can try to make people aware that there are many activities going on behind the scenes. Just because myself and others are focused on the U.S. Government's activities does not mean they are the only events that matter. If you recall I recently pointed out an ISOC event that just took place in Washington, D.C. . We try to make people aware of everything that is happening. It helps to know in advance of the meeting. Also, be sensitive to the fact that people are still free to choose whether they want to attend your events and listen to you. Jim Fleming =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D From: hank@interall.co.il (Hank Nussbacher) Subject: Internet Society of Israel conference registration now open Date: 08 Dec 1997 00:00:00 GMT Message-ID: <66gama$q2i$4@news.ibm.net.il> Organization: Hank Nussbacher, consulting Newsgroups: israel.amix,israel.internet,israel.irc,israel.jobs.misc,israel.= lists.aix-il,israel.news.admin The Internet Society of Israel is pleased to announce that registration to = its=20 conference to take place on Jan 7th, 1998 at Kfar Hamacabiah is now open at http://www.isoc.org.il/conf98 Registration can be done online via our secure server or you can contact the conference organizers directly. This years guest speaker will be Scott Bradner who is an area chair in = the=20 IETF, a member of the IESG and a Trustee of ISOC. He was also codirector of the IETF IP next generation effort and is coeditor of "IPng: Internet Protocol Next Generation" from Addison-Wesley. He also runs the famous=20 Harvard Benchmark Lab and is a weekly columnist for Network World. Hank Nussbacher ISOC-IL Board member =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D= - Jim Fleming Unir Corporation - http://www.unir.net IPv8 - Designed for the Rest of the Human Race AM Radio Stations ---> http://www.DOT.AM --=_CE9A971D.99F894F5-- --=_CE9A971D.98F995F4-- From - Tue May 19 16:44:06 1998 Message-Id: <00001AF0@ntiahq3.ntia.doc.gov> Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 13:17:22 -0400 From: "Karen Rose" To: Herschel Gelman Subject: Why Focus On Cencorship -Forwarded -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_CD99941E.9AFB97F6" This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to properly handle MIME multipart messages. --=_CD99941E.9AFB97F6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline -K --=_CD99941E.9AFB97F6 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 13:07:15 -0400 From: "Becky Burr" To: Karen Rose Subject: Why Focus On Cencorship -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_CD99941E.9BFA96F7" --=_CD99941E.9BFA96F7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline --=_CD99941E.9BFA96F7 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from webster.unir.net ([207.32.159.5]) by doorstep.unety.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA07448; Mon, 18 May 1998 08:21:17 -0500 Received: by webster.unir.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BD8235.293727C0@webster.unir.net>; Mon, 18 May 1998 08:15:47 -0500 Message-ID: <01BD8235.293727C0@webster.unir.net> From: Jim Fleming To: "'Hank Nussbacher'" Cc: "'Annie Renard'" , "'BBURR@ntia.doc.gov'" , "'DOMAIN-POLICY@LISTS.INTERNIC.NET'" , "'Ira Magaziner'" Subject: Why Focus On Cencorship Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 08:15:46 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Hank, It seems that you spend a lot of time over there in Israel trying to censor speech and viewpoints and to control how people communicate. This was also a hallmark of the IAHC process where you were a member of the Blue Ribbon committee. Recently you tried to tell Annie Renard from France that she should not listen to me. Have you also given here these views below ? Jim Fleming =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D From: hank@interall.co.il (Hank Nussbacher) Subject: Re: CFV (Call for Votes) : Creation of the israel.francophones = newsgroup Date: 18 Dec 1997 00:00:00 GMT Message-ID: <67bius$prk$1@news.ibm.net.il> References: <3498F1B2.76DC@hotmail.com> <34993150.DF81644B@orbotech.co.il> Organization: Hank Nussbacher, consulting Newsgroups: israel.news.admin I vote against. Why not use IRC to talk frenchto each other? Why does = there=20 have to be a newsgroup to talk in French? -Hank =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D - Jim Fleming Unir Corporation - http://www.unir.net IPv8 - Designed for the Rest of the Human Race AM Radio Stations ---> http://www.DOT.AM --=_CD99941E.9BFA96F7-- --=_CD99941E.9AFB97F6-- From - Tue May 19 16:44:06 1998 Message-Id: <00001AEC@ntiahq3.ntia.doc.gov> Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 13:17:25 -0400 From: "Karen Rose" To: Herschel Gelman Subject: RE: Making Your Voice Heard -Forwarded -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_CD99941E.94F599F8" This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to properly handle MIME multipart messages. --=_CD99941E.94F599F8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline -K --=_CD99941E.94F599F8 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 13:07:16 -0400 From: "Becky Burr" To: Karen Rose Subject: RE: Making Your Voice Heard -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_CD99941E.95F498F9" --=_CD99941E.95F498F9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline --=_CD99941E.95F498F9 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from webster.unir.net ([207.32.159.5]) by doorstep.unety.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA07524; Mon, 18 May 1998 08:48:50 -0500 Received: by webster.unir.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BD8239.0277E300@webster.unir.net>; Mon, 18 May 1998 08:43:20 -0500 Message-ID: <01BD8239.0277E300@webster.unir.net> From: Jim Fleming To: "'Hank Nussbacher'" Cc: "'BBURR@ntia.doc.gov'" , "'DOMAIN-POLICY@LISTS.INTERNIC.NET'" , "'Ira Magaziner'" , "'Scott Bradner'" , "'tld-wg@ripe.net'" Subject: RE: Making Your Voice Heard Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 08:43:19 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On Monday, May 18, 1998 9:33 AM, Hank Nussbacher[SMTP:hank@ibm.net.il] = wrote: @At 07:54 AM 5/18/98 -0500, Jim Fleming wrote: @ @I am not sure that Becky Burr and Ira Magaziner and the domain-policy = list @and the tld-wg list care about a 6 month old posting to 6 Israeli = specific @Usenet groups about an ISOC-IL conference, which has absolutely nothing = to @do with anything. @ @-Hank @ Since you are not sure, let me explain. You have been complaining that your voice is not being heard. I was pointing out that it is up to you and people like Scott Bradner to make sure your voice is heard. Now, you seem to prefer to do that by censoring people, by having people removed from the discussions. I suppose that would make it easier for you and Scott Bradner to be heard, but I do not think that is acceptable to the majority of people. As for being specific to Israel. You might want to work with the government officials in Israel to make sure that they formulate a policy that helps to make your voice heard louder in the U.S. That is something I do not think that you have done. I do not recall seeing anything from the government in Israel on the U.S. Government's web site where these comments get posted. Again...I do not think that it is my job to help you get your message out. I know that Scott Bradner submitted material to the U.S. Government because it is listed along with other "paper" submittals. Here is the URL. http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/domainname/130dftmail/scanned/index.html As for submissions from you or Israel, I suggest that you provide the links to those. It is not our job to help you make your voice be heard. - Jim Fleming Unir Corporation - http://www.unir.net IPv8 - Designed for the Rest of the Human Race AM Radio Stations ---> http://www.DOT.AM --=_CD99941E.95F498F9-- --=_CD99941E.94F599F8-- From - Tue May 19 16:44:07 1998 Message-Id: <00001AE8@ntiahq3.ntia.doc.gov> Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 13:17:29 -0400 From: "Karen Rose" To: Herschel Gelman Subject: RE: More on Neighbor Net for .WINE -Forwarded -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_CC98951F.96F79BFA" This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to properly handle MIME multipart messages. --=_CC98951F.96F79BFA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline -K --=_CC98951F.96F79BFA Content-Type: message/rfc822 Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 13:07:27 -0400 From: "Becky Burr" To: Karen Rose Subject: RE: More on Neighbor Net for .WINE -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_CC98951F.97F69AFB" --=_CC98951F.97F69AFB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline --=_CC98951F.97F69AFB Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from webster.unir.net ([207.32.159.5]) by doorstep.unety.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA07865; Mon, 18 May 1998 11:35:58 -0500 Received: by webster.unir.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BD8250.5B89E440@webster.unir.net>; Mon, 18 May 1998 11:30:28 -0500 Message-ID: <01BD8250.5B89E440@webster.unir.net> From: Jim Fleming To: "'Michael Dillon'" Cc: Annie Renard , "'BBURR@ntia.doc.gov'" , "'Dave Crocker'" , "'DOMAIN-POLICY@LISTS.INTERNIC.NET'" , "'John Gilmore'" , "'Hank Nussbacher'" Cc: "'Don Heath'" , "'Ira Magaziner'" , "'Kent Crispin'" , "'Marc Hurst'" , "'ARIN list'" , "'Richard J. Sexton'" Cc: "'Robert L. Shearing'" , "'Scott Bradner'" , "tld-wg@ripe.net" , "'vinton g. cerf'" Subject: RE: More on Neighbor Net for .WINE Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 11:30:26 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On Monday, May 18, 1998 3:22 AM, Michael Dillon[SMTP:michael@memra.com] = wrote: @On Mon, 18 May 1998, Jim Fleming wrote: @ @> @Jim is what one science fiction story termed an "agent provocateur" = (where, @> @when the world is totally wired and everyone is on email, along comes = a @> @person who talks the talk and walks the walk but is a bit demented and = only @> @a few people can see thru his techno-mumbo-jumbo as being garbage). = His @> @purpose in life is to drum up controversy and to have people run off = in @> @directions that are unproductive. =20 @ @It is my studied opinion that Jim Fleming is not demented, that he has a @specific goal in his provocateur activities and that he is likely being @paid to do this by the U.S. telco industry. His goal is to discredit the @Internet governance infrastructure in order to manipulate the U.S.=20 @government into creating an FCC-like regulatory infrastructure for the @Internet. The U.S. telcos (and indeed national PTTs the world over) like @this sort of structure because they know that, with it they can control @the Internet by the same sorts of political manoeuverings they have @perfected over the past several generations.=20 @ @So Hank is basically right that the best response is to take some time to @do more talking to government. However don't be misled by Jim's email = spew @into thinking that a few emails to the right places will suffice. It is @far more effective to take the time to write a cogent discussion of the @issues and then snail-mail the document to the government agency. Or to @visit them in person for a face-to-face discussion. @ @-- @Michael Dillon - Internet & ISP Consulting @Memra Communications Inc. - E-mail: michael@memra.com @http://www.memra.com - *check out the new name & new website* @ @ Michael, Your participation in the development of the IAHC/CORE plan and Hank Nussbacher's role as a member of the IAHC committee are well known. Also, your involvement with the creation of ARIN and your role on the ARIN Advisory Council are well known. Also, your various attempts to commute from Canada and to work in the United States are well known. Your constant focus on the U.S. ISP marketplace is well known. Why don't you become a U.S. citizen ? Then you could have a larger voice with the U.S. Government. If that is not your pleasure, then I suggest that you lobby the Canadian government to carry your message to the U.S. Government. As for Mr. Nussbacher. He seems concerned that his voice is not being heard in Israel. Despite this, he clearly does not want other voices to be heard. Here is one small example. I selected this example because Mr. Nussbacher was recently trying to convince Annie Renard the .FR (France) TLD administrator not to listen to me. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D From: hank@interall.co.il (Hank Nussbacher) Subject: Re: CFV (Call for Votes) : Creation of the israel.francophones = newsgroup Date: 18 Dec 1997 00:00:00 GMT Message-ID: <67bius$prk$1@news.ibm.net.il> References: <3498F1B2.76DC@hotmail.com> <34993150.DF81644B@orbotech.co.il> Organization: Hank Nussbacher, consulting Newsgroups: israel.news.admin I vote against. Why not use IRC to talk frenchto each other? Why does = there=20 have to be a newsgroup to talk in French? -Hank =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D In all of these cases, it seems clear that we have people like yourself and Mr. Nussbacher who are not working via their governments to make sure your voices are heard. Instead, you seem to think that you can enter the U.S. via electronic networks to dominate this marketplace and the U.S. Government. I have a feeling that the U.S. Government is on the look-out for this type of activity and will listen to their taxpayers before you or Mr. Nussbacher. If they do not, they then have to deal with U.S. taxpayers at the next election or in person. As a U.S. citizen and U.S. taxpayer my recommendation is for the U.S. Government to start dealing with other governments. This will allow them to have the Canadian government present a more balanced view from your country. Likewise, the same can be said for Israel. I encourage you to follow your own advice and contact YOUR government officials. Let the U.S. taxpayers and government officials work together on our own plan. We will let you know how it comes out. - Jim Fleming Unir Corporation - http://www.unir.net IPv8 - Designed for the Rest of the Human Race AM Radio Stations ---> http://www.DOT.AM --=_CC98951F.97F69AFB-- --=_CC98951F.96F79BFA-- From - Tue May 19 16:44:07 1998 Message-Id: <00001AF4@ntiahq3.ntia.doc.gov> Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 13:18:56 -0400 From: "Karen Rose" To: Herschel Gelman Subject: Re: ARIN Mailing Lists -Forwarded -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_CC98951F.90F19DFC" This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to properly handle MIME multipart messages. --=_CC98951F.90F19DFC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline -K --=_CC98951F.90F19DFC Content-Type: message/rfc822 Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 13:08:53 -0400 From: "Becky Burr" To: Karen Rose Subject: Re: ARIN Mailing Lists -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_CC98951F.91F09CFD" --=_CC98951F.91F09CFD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline --=_CC98951F.91F09CFD Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id FAA13853; Thu, 14 May 1998 05:52:19 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dal-tx5-59.ix.netcom.com(207.94.121.187) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma013790; Thu May 14 05:52:00 1998 Message-ID: <355A6813.C690CD9@ix.netcom.com> Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 04:42:13 +0100 From: Jeff Williams Organization: IEG. INC. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win16; I) To: Jim Fleming , John Curran CC: "'arin-council@arin.net'" , "'ARIN list'" , "'Tony Rutkowski'" , "'Antitrust List'" , "'antitrust@usdoj.gov'" , "'apnic-talk@apnic.net'" , "'APPLe '" , "'BBURR@ntia.doc.gov'" , "'Ira Magaziner'" , "'Jay@Iperdome.com'" Subject: Re: ARIN Mailing Lists X-Priority: 2 (High) References: <01BD7E6D.2EF3B320@webster.unir.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_CC98951F.92F39FFE" --=_CC98951F.92F39FFE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline John, Ira, Jay, Jim and all, This is an official response from the official representative of INEG = and its 300 plus affiliates or wholly owned companies. Jim Fleming wrote: > John, > > Why aren't the e-mail discussions to which you refer > posted on the ARIN web site ? John, Jim makes a good point here by asking this question we feel. As a responsible ARIN board member it would appear that neglection to post this discussion to the ARIN list for other members to review, was purposeful. I for one hope this was not you motivation. > > > Also, aren't these discussions subject to the "ex parte" > rules because ARIN and IP number management is part > of the Green Paper process ? Ira, is this indeed the case? Please advise. If not it seems to me = that they should be. Please advise. > > > Jim Fleming > > @@@@@ http://www.arin.net/archives/arin-members.9805 > > >From owner-arin-members Tue May 12 21:57:42 1998 > Received: (from majordom@localhost) by arin.net (8.8.5/8.8.0) id = VAA05569 > for arin-members-outgoing; Tue, 12 May 1998 21:57:42 GMT > Received: (from pdenitto@localhost) by arin.net (8.8.5/8.8.0) id = VAA05564 > for arin-members@arin.net; Tue, 12 May 1998 21:57:41 GMT > Received: from rs.arin.net (rs1.arin.net [192.149.252.21]) by arin.net > (8.8.5/8.8.0) with SMTP id AAA11926 for ; Mon, 11 > May 1998 00:49:28 GMT > Received: (qmail 24081 invoked from network); 11 May 1998 00:49:27 -0000 > Received: from sword.bbnplanet.com (199.94.209.25) > by rs1.arin.net with SMTP; 11 May 1998 00:49:27 -0000 > Received: from jcurran.bbnplanet.com (jcurran.ne.mediaone.net > [24.128.40.80]) > by sword.bbnplanet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA07453 > for ; Sun, 10 May 1998 20:49:27 -0400 = (EDT) > Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19980510204354.00cecac4@mail.bbnplanet.com> > X-Sender: jcurran@mail.bbnplanet.com > X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) > Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 20:43:54 -0400 > To: arin-members@arin.net > From: John Curran > Subject: Regarding the email discussions of the last two months > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii" > Sender: owner-arin-members@arin.net > Precedence: bulk > > [... This message being resent due to delivery failure on first attempt > ...] > > Dear ARIN Members: > > You are all very much aware of the recent email volume over the > last few months on the Advisory Council list and the ARIN Members' > list discussing various aspects of ARIN policy and operation. > > The purpose of this letter is to make clear that the ARIN Board of > Trustees is also very much aware of this discussion. The Board is > interested in much of the subject matter and topics raised. However, > the Board also regrets the tone that some of the exchanges have taken. We all, I believe are indeed regretful of some of the tone of many of = the posts that have been made in the recent weeks. It is also unfortunate = that as an ARIN member, many are hearing very little from the ARIN council on questions that have been posed inquiring of policy concern's and = possible considerations. It is paramount to creating a mistrust situation in not openly discussing these issues with the general membership as well as the Internet community at large. We hope in the future that this will change and any and all discussions amongst the council will be shared on = the ARIN membership mailing list. We sincerely regret that such an environment may exist where openness is not the norm and would beseech you to please consider this request sincerely. > > > The Board looks forward to hearing from the Advisory Council (AC) on > many of the topics that have been raised, and has directed the AC to > proceed with civil discussion towards consensus and recommendations. We as well, some 300 plus commercial and non commercial organizations strong, also share your sentiment here as well, John. We as I said above would like to see several changes in the operation of the AC and the ARIN council. Two of which would be the posting of all minuets of all meetings of the AC and the ARIN council on the ARIN member ship mailing list unedited. In addition an opening up of the AC and the ARIN council for direct participation of its members on a fairly regular basis on the = ARIN membership mailing list. In taking these two small steps, it is our = belief that a stronger trust can be established with the Internet community and most especially with the ARIN membership in general. Please feel free to = contact me via E-mail if you wish to discuss this request further. > > > The ARIN Board will be meeting on June 30, the day after the AC meeting, > and looks forward to any recommendations from the AC on these matters. John, we would like to know if the minuets of this meeting unedited, = will be posted on the ARIN membership mailing list? Please advise. Ira, is it possible that you also might second the recommendation for a = open dialog and production of the minuets of any and all meetings of the ARIN council and the AC? Please advise. > > > Thanks, > > John Curran > Chairman > Board of Trustees > > @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ > > - > Jim Fleming > Unir Corporation - http://www.unir.net > IPv8 - Designed for the Rest of the Human Race > AM Radio Stations ---> http://www.DOT.AM Regards, --=_CC98951F.92F39FFE Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Part.001" Jeffrey A. Williams DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng. Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC. E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com --=_CC98951F.92F39FFE-- --=_CC98951F.91F09CFD-- --=_CC98951F.90F19DFC--