"I wonder what options are open to people offended by these inescapable symbols?"

I would think you could rent a billboard and voice your opinion.  Or create a piece of art for permanent installation, one that questions blind acceptance of symbols that for many, represent pain.  Or found a museum on the history of local oppression.  

There are hundreds of ways to express free speech that open the mind rather than attempt to censor and limit.


Katherine Mercurio Gotthardt
www.luxuriouschoices.net 
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: William R Muth/FS/VCU 
  To: The Poverty, Race,Women and Literacy Discussion List 
  Cc: Jacqueline T McDonnough/AC/VCU ; povertyracewomen-bounces at nifl.gov ; The Poverty, Race,Women and Literacy Discussion List 
  Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 5:26 PM
  Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 1650] Re:DiscussingDiversityandPowerIssuesforProfessional Development inAdult Literacy



  Erik's warnings about taking on 'more distant' targets (e.g., non-Southerners' criticism of the confederate flag) and avoiding those symbols closer to home (e.g., the U.S. flag) are helpful and even biblical (ignoring the beam in our own eye...) reminders. 
  In Richmond VA iconic Confederate statuary continue to define the city (Monument Ave). Lee, Jackson, and Stuart--wittingly or not--don't so much suppress my freedom of speech as speak (uninvitedly) for me. This may be because they are our 'shared' geography of the city (and this sharing is not merely offered but insisted upon). And I imagine this speaking as unequivocal, final, and hostile to today's social justice movement because, as symbols of an earlier act of revolutionary (or reactionary) defiance, they remain for me stirring atavars of resistance, permanence, non-negotiation and, of course, a culture inextricably bound to the institution of slavery. 
  Thus, taking Erik's admonition very seriously (to protect free speech), I wonder what options are open to people offended by these inescapable symbols? Freire warned that revolutionary action without reflection merely leads to the replacement of one mob with another. So how should those interested in transforming themselves and their city--in Freire's loving way that is nevertheless as fierce in its own vision of humanity as these monuments are in theirs--proceed? 
  Bill Muth 
        
   



        ejonline at comcast.net 
        Sent by: povertyracewomen-bounces at nifl.gov 
        02/22/2008 03:27 PM Please respond to
              "The Poverty, Race,        Women and Literacy Discussion List" <povertyracewomen at nifl.gov> 


       To "The Poverty, Race,        Women and Literacy Discussion List" <povertyracewomen at nifl.gov>  
              cc  
              Subject [PovertyRaceWomen 1645] Re:        DiscussingDiversityandPowerIssuesforProfessional        Development        in Adult Literacy 

              

       



  I think banning public displays of the confederate flag would violate the first amendment. 

  As a follow-up to my earlier posting, this week is the 66th anniversary of the law being signed that sent Japanese-Americans to interment camps. The flag flying above the politicians' heads and above the barbed wire of the camps was the US flag. The systematic oppression of people based on their race is not something that is unique to the confederacy. 

  Erik Jacobson


  -------------- Original message ----------------------
  From: "karen.mobley at NORIS.ORG" <karen.mobley at NORIS.ORG>
  > I agree...HAVING a Confederate Flag is different than displaying one any 
  > where...whether flying it, hanging off something, in the back window of your car 
  > or truck...of course displaying in your own residence or barn or garage would be 
  > your business..as long as people do not have to see it daily....why have one on 
  > the first place is my question...for historical purposes is one thing...any 
  > thing else should be BANNED
  > ---- Message from mailto:andreawilder at comcast.net Andrea Wilder 
  > <andreawilder at comcast.net> at 2008-02-22 12:35:59 ------ 
  > 
  > The flag should go in a museum.
  > 
  > Andrea
  > 
  > On Feb 22, 2008, at 12:14 PM, Katherine wrote:
  > 
  > > I think there's a big difference between HAVING a Confederate flag and
  > > FLYING it next to the American flag or in PLACE of the American flag.   
  > > This
  > > isn't a problem with Native Americans because they really are nations  
  > > unto
  > > themselves.  The Confederacy is not part of the United States.  It's a  
  > > part
  > > of history, yes, but not a nation no matter how much some people would  
  > > like
  > > it to be.
  > >
  > > Katherine Mercurio Gotthardt
  > > www.luxuriouschoices.net
  > > ----- Original Message -----
  > > From: <ejonline at comcast.net>
  > > To: "The Poverty, Race,Women and Literacy Discussion List"
  > > <povertyracewomen at nifl.gov>
  > > Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 10:21 AM
  > > Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 1636] Re:
  > > DiscussingDiversityandPowerIssuesforProfessional Development in Adult
  > > Literacy
  > >
  > >
  > >> I think this point about the history and meaning of flags is very
  > >> important. On recent "Real Time with Bill Mahr" there was a  
  > >> discussion of
  > >> the Confederate Flag being the symbol of racism, slavery and  
  > >> oppression.
  > >> Trace Adkins, a country singer, author and white Southerner said that  
  > >> is
  > >> not what it meant to him. The other panelists scoffed and said  
  > >> basically,
  > >> "well, that's what it looks like to African Americans". He in turn  
  > >> asked
  > >> what those panelists thought Native Americans felt when they see the  
  > >> flag
  > >> of the US. They did not pick up this thread at all, and in fact did  
  > >> not
  > >> want to engage him on it.
  > >>
  > >> And actually, I can't think of a time in the mainstream or independent
  > >> news coverage of the confederate flag issue that anybody actually  
  > >> raises
  > >> this issue. The focus is solely on the confederate flag, and the
  > >> assumption is that the correct thing to do is just to have the US flag
  > >> flying. This certainly is a form of privilege - not having to defend  
  > >> or
  > >> explain your relationship to a symbol (the US flag, a Christian cross,
  > >> etc.) because the meaning of that symbol is assumed to be  
  > >> uncomplicated.
  > >> So then those who support the Confederate flag become "racists" who  
  > >> have
  > >> to defend themselves and the racist history of US (as represented by  
  > >> the
  > >> stars and stripes) is willfully ignored.
  > >>
  > >> I'm not saying that people should not be engaged to discuss the  
  > >> meaning
  > >> they place in certain symbols, but I think it should be general rather
  > >> than selective.
  > >>
  > >> Erik Jacobson
  > >>
  > >> -------------- Original message ----------------------
  > >> From: "Katherine" <kgotthardt at comcast.net>
  > >>> "For example, I hear  white privilege every time someone says that  
  > >>> the
  > >>> confederate flag is just a historical artifact."
  > >>>
  > >>> But for some people, it really is.  We can't deny that part of our
  > >>> history.
  > >>>
  > >>> If the owner does indeed believe in the Confederate Flag as more than
  > >>> just
  > >>> history and instead believes in negative ideals of what that flag
  > >>> represents
  > >>> (such as white-only-privilege), it will come out in his/her behavior.
  > >>> This is
  > >>> true of any flag.
  > >>>
  > >>> Katherine Mercurio Gotthardt
  > >>> www.luxuriouschoices.net
  > >>>   ----- Original Message -----
  > >>>   From: Andrea Wilder
  > >>>   To: The Poverty, Race,Women and Literacy Discussion List
  > >>>   Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 10:22 PM
  > >>>   Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 1628] Re: Discussing
  > >>> DiversityandPowerIssuesforProfessional Development in Adult Literacy
  > >>>
  > >>>
  > >>>   Margery,
  > >>>
  > >>>   What are you calling "race" and "racism?"
  > >>>
  > >>>   Andrea
  > >>>
  > >>>   On Feb 21, 2008, at 3:31 PM, Michael Tate wrote:
  > >>>
  > >>>
  > >>>     I absolutely agree with you.  Privilege is an artifice that  
  > >>> depends
  > >>> upon
  > >>> racism and the other isms.  People donâ?°?Tt earn or deserve the  
  > >>> privileges
  > >>> that
  > >>> they get from an affiliation or that are denied or withheld because  
  > >>> of an
  > >>> affiliation.  Privilege is the baggage of domination.
  > >>>
  > >>>
  > >>>
  > >>>      However, as someone who appears to be white,  I canâ?°?Tt escape  
  > >>> white
  > >>> privilege by saying that I donâ?°?Tt believe in a 17
  > >>>     th century construct.   White privilege begins to disappear when  
  > >>> we
  > >>> collectively recognize as you say â?°?~the institutional nature of
  > >>> privileges�?ÿ.
  > >>> Iâ?°?Tm probably a bit more pessimistic than you in believing that
  > >>> privilege goes
  > >>> underground rather than completely dying out.  For example, I hear   
  > >>> white
  > >>> privilege every time someone says that the confederate flag is just a
  > >>> historical
  > >>> artifact.
  > >>>
  > >>>
  > >>>
  > >>>     From: povertyracewomen-bounces at nifl.gov
  > >>> [mailto:povertyracewomen-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of margery  
  > >>> freeman
  > >>>     Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 11:34 AM
  > >>>     To: The Poverty, Race,Women and Literacy Discussion List
  > >>>     Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 1623] Re: Discussing Diversity
  > >>> andPowerIssuesforProfessional Development in Adult Literacy
  > >>>
  > >>>     Katherine, Michael and others:
  > >>>
  > >>>     Your lively responses remind me again that discussing race and  
  > >>> racism
  > >>> without having a common language means that we often talk right past  
  > >>> one
  > >>> another.  I've often thought that it's remarkable that in a society  
  > >>> that
  > >>> prides
  > >>> itself on its can-do spirit, very few of us have studied what racism  
  > >>> is
  > >>> and what
  > >>> we can do about it.  Each of us is left to decide what racism is  
  > >>> based on
  > >>> our
  > >>> individual experiences and opinions.  (I'd hate to think what a fix  
  > >>> sick
  > >>> people
  > >>> would be in if physicians dealt with disease the way our society  
  > >>> deals
  > >>> with
  > >>> racism! )
  > >>>
  > >>>     What I have learned from history is that racial categories were
  > >>> invented -
  > >>> made up - to keep a particular socio-political arrangement in place.  
  > >>>  The
  > >>> idea
  > >>> of "white" as a positive legal status emerged out of the 17th century
  > >>> colonial
  > >>> experience.  It gradually expanded to include all people of Europe  
  > >>> and
  > >>> the
  > >>> Middle East.  Until the Civil Rights movement of the 1960's, this
  > >>> arrangement
  > >>> was completely legal
  > >>>
  > >>>     My point is that "race" is a socio-political status rooted in an
  > >>> ideology
  > >>> that says white people are "better than," and everyone else is
  > >>> less-than".
  > >>> (Thus the persistence of the word "minority".)  So today, while legal
  > >>> white
  > >>> supremacy is outlawed, it continues because it is woven into the very
  > >>> fabric of
  > >>> our history and society.  If we don't know this history, then the  
  > >>> idea of
  > >>> being
  > >>> privileged feels very uncomfortable.  But just ask yourselves, if we  
  > >>> took
  > >>> every
  > >>> single KKK/white supremacist and put them in a rocket ship to the  
  > >>> moon,
  > >>> would we
  > >>> still be dealing with racism?  When we think about "white" as a
  > >>> collective
  > >>> designation, the institutional nature of the privileges become  
  > >>> clearer to
  > >>> see.
  > >>>
  > >>>     This discussion needs to be much longer, doesn't it?
  > >>>
  > >>>     Margery
  > >>>
  > >>>     I'd like
  > >>>
  > >>>     Katherine <kgotthardt at comcast.net> wrote:
  > >>>
  > >>>       ÃOøåÃ^Ã¥Ã?
  > >>>       Interesting examples, none of which apply to me or to some of  
  > >>> the
  > >>> people I
  > >>> have been closest to in my lifetime, including my
  > >>> parents/siblings/grandparents.
  > >>>
  > >>>       I understand the importance of things like title, work, etc.   
  > >>> And I
  > >>> am not
  > >>> saying I don't have my education because I do, but I have had to  
  > >>> struggle
  > >>> for it
  > >>> just like a lot of "minorities" (in quotes because again, what do we  
  > >>> mean
  > >>> when
  > >>> we are saying "minority"?).  I have neither government affiliation  
  > >>> nor
  > >>> gender
  > >>> nor direct ethnicity to put me in that category of privilege.  Of  
  > >>> course,
  > >>> I am
  > >>> not the only one. I think that's the point I am trying to make.   
  > >>> Race and
  > >>> color
  > >>> do not equate privilege or socioeconomic status.  (And just because
  > >>> someone is
  > >>> government, by the way, doesn't mean he or she has status either.   
  > >>> There
  > >>> are
  > >>> many POOR government workers.)
  > >>>
  > >>>       More than a few times, I've been mistaken for someone of  
  > >>> privilege
  > >>> by
  > >>> whites because I've worked in education and I have practiced my  
  > >>> writing
  > >>> skills.
  > >>> It's made me a target for agenda-driven people from all socioeconomic
  > >>> statuses.
  > >>> Some of these agendas have been violent, some political, some
  > >>> discriminatory....you get the picture.  I'm not crying "victima de
  > >>> sociodad"
  > >>> LOL.  I'm just stating the facts.
  > >>>
  > >>>       As to this comment:
  > >>>        "It doesnÃO¢â?°,Ã,â?°"¢t take long for Whites in Asia or Africa to
  > >>> figure out
  > >>> that they donÃO¢â?°,Ã,â?°"¢t have to stay at a resort hotel to be able to  
  > >>> use
  > >>> the
  > >>> pool.  If youÃO¢â?°,Ã,â?°"¢re White, you look like you belong in the 
  > pool."
  > >>>
  > >>>       I would argue that inmore resorts, it's the glaring white  
  > >>> skinned
  > >>> people
  > >>> who don't look like they belong at the pool--never mind those of us  
  > >>> white
  > >>> people
  > >>> who are overweight and have more visible cellulite which Africans,
  > >>> African
  > >>> Americans, Hispanics, Asians, etc. who seem to control the bodies and
  > >>> images
  > >>> much more gracefully. In some other cultures, issues of weight as a
  > >>> necessary
  > >>> element of fitting in don't seem to apply because the female body is
  > >>> viewed as
  > >>> beautiful in many forms.  We white people are still at the mercy of  
  > >>> the
  > >>> "thin is
  > >>> in" mentality, no matter what we want to say.  White, big thighs are  
  > >>> just
  > >>> not
  > >>> "the thing."  Darker heritages have broader (no pun intended)
  > >>> perspectives on
  > >>> characteristics like size, shape, etc.  This is something to be  
  > >>> envious
  > >>> of. It's
  > >>> a privilege.
  > >>>
  > >>>
  > >>>       Our image of the resort person is more and morethe exotic,
  > >>> tanned/brown/black person who has that "native" look.  Fashion mags,
  > >>> television,
  > >>> and the movies in some ways have made being white passÃOfå©.  We're  
  > >>> GEEKS!
  > >>> LOL.
  > >>> And I'm okay with that but I've been known to say, "I wish I was  
  > >>> black. I
  > >>> think
  > >>> I'd be a lot prettier if I were black."
  > >>>
  > >>>       Immigrants and African Americans hold a status and privilege  
  > >>> all
  > >>> their
  > >>> own, but not enough in the socioeconomic sense. I think that kind of
  > >>> privilege
  > >>> stems from strong cultural ties that Caucasians in this country have  
  > >>> left
  > >>> behind
  > >>> because they've lived here so long, generation after generation.   
  > >>> It's
  > >>> privilege
  > >>> to say, "This is my family.  This is my heritage.  These are my  
  > >>> people."
  > >>> It's
  > >>> privilege to have extended family.  It's privilege to have groups out
  > >>> there
  > >>> supporting you because you hold a particular racial or ethnic status.
  > >>> These
  > >>> privileges are not the same as affluence or socioeconomic position,  
  > >>> but
  > >>> they are
  > >>> some that many Caucasians are envious of.  If you look at the white
  > >>> American
  > >>> cultural re-birth of what many call "family values," you hear it  
  > >>> loud and
  > >>> clear:
  > >>> "we want what THEY have because somehow, we've LOST it."
  > >>>
  > >>>       Many Caucasians feel lost. The envious ones who resent the
  > >>> privileges of
  > >>> "minorities" sometimes resort to using anger and hatred to regain  
  > >>> that
  > >>> sense of
  > >>> lost connection and community.  They form groups of "White  
  > >>> Nationalists"
  > >>> or
  > >>> "White Supremacists" to protect themselves from what they see as a
  > >>> threat.  They
  > >>> form strong lobbying and citizen groups aimed at shutting down open
  > >>> communications about race, culture, and society.
  > >>>
  > >>>       Hategroups and bigots want to break up immigrant families. Why?
  > >>> Because
  > >>> when they do, they know they destroy the spirit, the incentive, and  
  > >>> the
  > >>> strength
  > >>> that close ties create.  They know people without ties have less  
  > >>> power:
  > >>> "Divide
  > >>> and conquer." We have only to look at the dividing of families in the
  > >>> slavery
  > >>> era and the Holocaust to understand what kind of destructive power
  > >>> division
  > >>> holds.   And we need not look any further than our own culture to
  > >>> understand
  > >>> what the loss of family has done to us as a society.
  > >>>
  > >>>       The KKK, white nationalists, etc.are nothing but jealous,  
  > >>> scared
  > >>> and
  > >>> hateful.  People like me can't tolerate their ridiculousness, their
  > >>> attitudes,
  > >>> or their agendas.  We think they bring "us" down.  But that doesn't  
  > >>> mean
  > >>> we
  > >>> don't feel the loss of family, connections, and the kind of security
  > >>> those
  > >>> things brings.  And it doesn't mean we should all be lumped together  
  > >>> as
  > >>> "those
  > >>> privileged, racist, whites."
  > >>>
  > >>>       As soon as we start to generalize, we fail to have meaningful
  > >>> dialogue. We
  > >>> can see this happening in the immigration discussions right now.   
  > >>> It's
  > >>> hard not
  > >>> to do, but we MUST remind one another NOT to do it.  Heck, when I  
  > >>> talk, I
  > >>> forget
  > >>> all the time.  When I do, it's because some kind of emotionalism or
  > >>> distraction
  > >>> is keeping me from communicating the way I want to.  I believe there  
  > >>> are
  > >>> MANY
  > >>> from ALL ethnic backgrounds who have the same problem, and it's even  
  > >>> more
  > >>> noticeable when there is an actual language barrier.
  > >>>
  > >>>       So privilege? Nah.  I don't identify with that.  I identify  
  > >>> more
  > >>> with the
  > >>> poverty and struggles of African Americans and immigrant  
  > >>> communities, but
  > >>> because I don't have family connections anywhere near me and I seem
  > >>> white, I
  > >>> don't fit there, either.
  > >>>
  > >>>       I'm not saying African Americans and immigrantsdon't have  
  > >>> struggles
  > >>> many
  > >>> white people don't have.  It's true!  And it's based on a history of
  > >>> white
  > >>> oppression.  They are cultures and races trying to raise themselves  
  > >>> up
  > >>> and
  > >>> overcome a history of oppression.  But remember, many of "us" are as
  > >>> well.  In
  > >>> every ethnic and racial group, there are those who abuse people in  
  > >>> the
  > >>> very same
  > >>> ethnic or racial group which only serves in weakening the group.  It
  > >>> happens to
  > >>> whites more than people know or acknowledge.
  > >>>
  > >>>       Anyone else here in the same boat? Come on.  We're teachers!   
  > >>> LOL.
  > >>> How
  > >>> much socioeconomic status do we think WE have?
  > >>>
  > >>>
  > >>>
  > >>>       Katherine Mercurio Gotthardt
  > >>>       www.luxuriouschoices.net
  > >>>
  > >>>         ----- Original Message -----
  > >>>         From: Michael Tate
  > >>>         To: The Poverty, Race,Women and Literacy Discussion List
  > >>>         Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 8:21 PM
  > >>>         Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 1617] Re: Discussing Diversity and
  > >>> PowerIssuesforProfessional Development in Adult Literacy
  > >>>
  > >>>         Privilege is subtle, but profound nonetheless.  You can be
  > >>> privileged
  > >>> because of your race, gender, age, class, position, friendships,  
  > >>> accent,
  > >>> dress,
  > >>> etc.   IÃO¢â?°,Ã,â?°"¢ve always thought it was a very helpful exercise to
  > >>> figure out
  > >>> what privileges are gained, and what privileges are lost through  
  > >>> each of
  > >>> our
  > >>> affiliations.  Here are some examples of privilege in action.
  > >>>
  > >>>
  > >>>
  > >>>         My wife and I were talking about where she might take our  
  > >>> dog for
  > >>> a
  > >>> walk.  I suggested a  somewhat secluded trail around a lake.  She  
  > >>> said
  > >>> she
  > >>> wouldnÃO¢â?°,Ã,â?°"¢t go there alone, that it would be dangerous.   
  > >>> Generally,
  > >>> men have
  > >>> the privilege of going just about anywhere they want to go by  
  > >>> themselves.
  > >>>
  > >>>
  > >>>
  > >>>         I submitted a legislative page application for my daughter  
  > >>> to my
  > >>> state
  > >>> senator from my home computer.  About three weeks into the  
  > >>> legislative
  > >>> session,
  > >>> I hadnÃO¢â?°,Ã,â?°"¢t heard anything.   I started getting concerned that  
  > >>> she
  > >>> might not
  > >>> get a chance to page.   I sent a follow-up email from my work  
  > >>> computer.
  > >>> At the
  > >>> bottom of the email was my job title and the state agency I work for.
  > >>> Almost
  > >>> immediately I got a response from the senatorÃO¢â?°,Ã,â?°"¢s staffer,  
  > >>> saying
  > >>> sheÃO¢â?°,Ã,
  > >>> â?°"¢d expedite my daughterÃO¢â?°,Ã,â?°"¢s application and apologizing 
  > for
  > >>> overlooking
  > >>> her application.
  > >>>
  > >>>
  > >>>
  > >>>         It doesnÃO¢â?°,Ã,â?°"¢t take long for Whites in Asia or Africa to
  > >>> figure out
  > >>> that they donÃO¢â?°,Ã,â?°"¢t have to stay at a resort hotel to be able to  
  > >>> use
  > >>> the
  > >>> pool.  If youÃO¢â?°,Ã,â?°"¢re White, you look like you belong in the pool.
  > >>>
  > >>>
  > >>>
  > >>>
  > >>>
  > >>>         Michael Tate
  > >>>
  > >>>
  > >>>
  > >>>
  > >>>
  > >>>
  > >>>
  > >>>
  > >>>
  > >>>         From: povertyracewomen-bounces at nifl.gov
  > >>> [mailto:povertyracewomen-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Katherine
  > >>>         Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 4:03 PM
  > >>>         To: The Poverty, Race,Women and Literacy Discussion List
  > >>>         Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 1615] Re: Discussing Diversity and
  > >>> PowerIssuesfor Professional Development in Adult Literacy
  > >>>
  > >>>         Margery, you wrote, "In this race-constructed society, white
  > >>> people have
  > >>> a privileged status - even though it is unearned and unsought-after."
  > >>>
  > >>>         By most people's standards, I'm considered pretty "white."   
  > >>> And
  > >>> if I'm
  > >>> privileged, then I must have missed the announcement somehow : )
  > >>>
  > >>>         Don't you think it's a generalization that "whites are  
  > >>> privileged
  > >>> and
  > >>> minorities are not"?  Don't you think generalizations really hurt us  
  > >>> in
  > >>> discussions of race and diversity?
  > >>>
  > >>>         Donna, you wrote, "....for whites to realize that the shift  
  > >>> is
  > >>> inevitable and that it will be less painful for whites if they become
  > >>> advocates
  > >>> of a just and peaceful sharing of power and wealth... "
  > >>>
  > >>>         EVERYONE needs to become an advocate of peace and justice,  
  > >>> not
  > >>> just
  > >>> whites.  I think when some people read phrases like this, they get  
  > >>> put
  > >>> off, and
  > >>> justifiably so.  It's scary to have someone say, "Hey....your days of
  > >>> glory are
  > >>> over...be prepared to be treated poorly," because in a sense, that's  
  > >>> what
  > >>> is
  > >>> being communicated.  I'm sure that's not what was intended, but  
  > >>> anyone
  > >>> who
  > >>> really does fear becoming a white minority would read it that way.
  > >>>
  > >>>
  > >>>         Katherine Mercurio Gotthardt
  > >>>         www.luxuriouschoices.net
  > >>>
  > >>>           ----- Original Message -----
  > >>>           From: margery freeman
  > >>>           To: The Poverty, Race,Women and Literacy Discussion List
  > >>>           Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 5:36 PM
  > >>>           Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 1612] Re: Discussing Diversity  
  > >>> and
  > >>> Power
  > >>> Issuesfor Professional Development in Adult Literacy
  > >>>
  > >>>           I also wanted to respond to Donna Brian's post on Monday
  > >>> (Thanks,
  > >>> Donna!).
  > >>>
  > >>>           Donna wrote, in part:  "...With the unequal distribution of
  > >>> power,
  > >>> privilege, and wealth that we currently have in the U.S. favoring  
  > >>> whites,
  > >>> what
  > >>> will happen when  whites are the minority?  Will it be another South
  > >>> African
  > >>> story with the whites trying to maintain power and privilege and  
  > >>> wealth
  > >>> and keep
  > >>> people of color as second-class citizens, or will it be that,  
  > >>> because we 
  > >>> are a
  > >>> democracy, we will be able to avoid that situation through people of
  > >>> color
  > >>> claiming their rights through democratic action?  The power and  
  > >>> privilege
  > >>> of
  > >>> white people is ultimately unsustainable, but the question is what
  > >>> processes
  > >>> will we go through before we come out on the other side of this  
  > >>> shift?  I
  > >>> see
  > >>> this as more of an educational issue for whites to realize that the  
  > >>> shift
  > >>> is
  > >>> inevitable and that it will be less painful for whites if they become
  > >>> advocates
  > >>> of a just and peaceful sharing of power and wealth... "
  > >>>
  > >>>           I think that you've done a great job of expressing this
  > >>> unspoken fear
  > >>> shared by many white people, Donna:  "Are 'they' going to do to us  
  > >>> what
  > >>> we did
  > >>> to them?" dominates much of conservative mainstream culture.  While  
  > >>> it's
  > >>> no
  > >>> longer politically correct to express such fears directly, they  
  > >>> continue
  > >>> to be
  > >>> said in newer ways - particularly in the immigration debates.
  > >>>
  > >>>           Our mainstream culture is very dichotomous:  We see things  
  > >>> as
  > >>> either/or:  black/white, good/bad, smart/dumb, etc.  This sort of
  > >>> thinking
  > >>> blocks us from seeing other possibilities, I think.  As Donna points  
  > >>> out,
  > >>> if
  > >>> white people could only realize that a more equitable (both/and)
  > >>> democracy would
  > >>> benefit us all, we could begin to "undo" the terrible inequities  
  > >>> imbedded
  > >>> in our
  > >>> social structures that make it so difficult for People of Color to
  > >>> achieve
  > >>> parity with white people.  (A wonderful book, published by United  
  > >>> for a
  > >>> Fair
  > >>> Economy called The Color of Wealth: The Story Behind the U.S. Racial
  > >>> Wealth
  > >>> Divide, offers a great history of how these inequities came about and
  > >>> what keeps
  > >>> them in place.)
  > >>>
  > >>>           One last point:  Race is about status, not numbers.  That's
  > >>> why, in
  > >>> some communities with majority Black or Latino populations, you'll  
  > >>> hear
  > >>> the term
  > >>> "majority minority."  In this race-constructed society, white people  
  > >>> have
  > >>> a
  > >>> privileged status - even though it is unearned and unsought-after.    
  > >>> As
  > >>> we begin
  > >>> to better understand what that means, we realize that race was
  > >>> constructed to
  > >>> divide us!  Knowing that, we can begin to work together toward a  
  > >>> society
  > >>> in
  > >>> which everyone is treated as fully human.
  > >>>           Others' thoughts?
  > >>>           Margery
  > >>>
  > >>>           margery freeman <margeryfreeman at yahoo.com> wrote:
  > >>>
  > >>>             Andy,
  > >>>             Your "normalizing" discussions about race and racism  
  > >>> ("weave
  > >>> observations of it throughout") is what I believe is crucial to our  
  > >>> being
  > >>> able
  > >>> to push ahead to develop real conversation, both among ourselves as
  > >>> practitioners and with our students.  The examples you give are very
  > >>> helpful, I
  > >>> think.  Would you expand a little, to describe what sort of  
  > >>> responses you
  > >>> get?
  > >>> Do you get different sorts of responses from different sorts of  
  > >>> students?
  > >>> Do you
  > >>> find much push-back?
  > >>>             Have others taken a similar casual and ongoing approach  
  > >>> in
  > >>> talking
  > >>> with colleagues and students about race and racism?
  > >>>             Margery
  > >>>
  > >>>             Andy Nash <andy_nash at worlded.org> wrote:
  > >>>
  > >>>               Andrea,
  > >>>               ThatÃOfå¢ÃO¢â?°?sÃ¥Ã,ÃO¢â?°?zå¢s interesting, because I 
  > hear
  > >>> MargeryÃOfå¢ÃO¢
  > >>> â?°?sÃ¥Ã,ÃO¢â?°?zå¢s point as being that the
  > >>>               discussion really needs to be among the community of  
  > >>> adult
  > >>> educators ÃOfå¢ÃO¢â?°?sÃ¥Ã,ÃO¢â?°,Ã,"
  > >>>               mostly white people (educating ourselves by coming to  
  > >>> terms
  > >>> with
  > >>> our
  > >>>               white identity and white privilege). I was going to  
  > >>> chime
  > >>> in that
  > >>> the
  > >>>               way I have tried to address race in the classroom or  
  > >>> in PD
  > >>> is to
  > >>> weave
  > >>>               observations of it throughout ÃOfå¢ÃO¢â?°?sÃ¥Ã,ÃO¢â?°
  > ,Ã," not  
  > >>> have a
  > >>> direct
  > >>> ÃOfå¢ÃO¢â?°?sÃ¥Ã,ÃO.â?°?odiscussionÃOfå¢ÃO¢â?°?sÃ¥Ã,ÃO,åÿ of
  > >>>               racism, but bring normalcy to talking about race as a
  > >>> factor that
  > >>>               affects our daily lives.
  > >>>
  > >>>               For example, the illustration I use for talking about  
  > >>> how
  > >>> to use
  > >>>               standards to help students speak effectively in real  
  > >>> life
  > >>> situations is
  > >>>               often an example about a worker who believes his lack  
  > >>> of
  > >>> promotion
  > >>> may
  > >>>               be due to discrimination and needs to figure out how to
  > >>> talk about
  > >>> that
  > >>>               at his performance review. In coaching a math teacher  
  > >>> who
  > >>> was
  > >>> doing
  > >>>               activities about the importance of assets (as opposed  
  > >>> to
  > >>> just a
  > >>> higher
  > >>>               wage) to increase wealth and get out of poverty, I
  > >>> suggested she
  > >>> have
  > >>>               the class look at some charts comparing the assets of
  > >>> whites and
  > >>> blacks.
  > >>>               This allowed us to work on math problems while also
  > >>> noticing the
  > >>>               profound wealth gap that persists by race. And when I  
  > >>> talk
  > >>> about
  > >>> my own
  > >>>               experience, I try to make as many observations based  
  > >>> on my
  > >>> race as
  > >>> I do
  > >>>               about being female, a resident of Boston, or any other
  > >>> aspect of
  > >>> my
  > >>>               identity. That might include the observation that my
  > >>> neighborhood
  > >>> is
  > >>>               getting whiter and whiter, or in talking about my
  > >>> familyÃOfå¢ÃO¢â?°?sÃ¥Ã,
  > >>> ÃO¢â?°?zå¢s educational
  > >>>               background mentioning that my brother got into a  
  > >>> private
  > >>> school
  > >>> because
  > >>>               my father was an alum (reflecting a different kind of
  > >>> ÃOfå¢ÃO¢â?°?sÃ¥Ã,
  > >>> ÃO.â?°?oaffirmative
  > >>>               actionÃOfå¢ÃO¢â?°?sÃ¥Ã,ÃO,åÿ that has privileged the 
  > white  
  > >>> and the
  > >>> well-off). The more aware
  > >>>               I become, the more I notice race and class influences
  > >>> everywhere,
  > >>> and
  > >>>               the more I signal to students that  
  > >>> itÃOfå¢ÃO¢â?°?sÃ¥Ã,ÃO¢â?°?zå¢s
  > >>> okay to
  > >>> name it.
  > >>>
  > >>>               Andy Nash
  > >>>               NELRC/World Education
  > >>>
  > >>>
  > >>>>>> Andrea Wilder 02/20/08 9:44 AM >>>
  > >>>               Margery,
  > >>>
  > >>>               I feel we should have any non-White members of this  
  > >>> list
  > >>> serv
  > >>> write
  > >>>               widely on this topic, other wise the topic becomes a
  > >>> monologue,
  > >>> when
  > >>>               what we need is a dialogue. Perhaps writers should  
  > >>> identify
  > >>> themselves
  > >>>
  > >>>               as to "race?"
  > >>>
  > >>>               Thanks for listening.
  > >>>
  > >>>               Andrea
  > >>>
  > >>>               On Feb 19, 2008, at 9:37 AM, margery freeman wrote:
  > >>>
  > >>>> Thanks to all who have written such thoughtful comments
  > >>> and
  > >>>> questions. I believe that the wealth of experience and
  > >>> ideas
  > >>> among
  > >>>> adult learners and educators hold the seeds of our
  > >>> transformation as a
  > >>>
  > >>>> field. In fact, I entered adult literacy work because, as
  > >>> an
  > >>>> antiracist organizer, I thought that it was the natural
  > >>> place to
  > >>> work
  > >>>
  > >>>> for social justice. Despite our field's distance from our
  > >>>> revolutionary roots (e.g. Moonlight schools of
  > >>> Appalachia;
  > >>> Freedom
  > >>>> Schools of Mississippi), many adult literacy organizers
  > >>> today
  > >>> use
  > >>>> popular education strategies to strengthen our connection
  > >>> with
  > >>> our
  > >>>> students and their families. I believe that understanding
  > >>> racism
  > >>> is
  > >>>
  > >>>> an essential strategy in that work.
  > >>>>
  > >>>> Andrea Wilder asks How do we discern racism in individual
  > >>> classrooms
  > >>>> or programs?
  > >>>>
  > >>>> The majority of us who work in adult literacy are white
  > >>> women.
  > >>> And
  > >>>> many of us bring unexamined cultural biases into our
  > >>> classrooms.
  > >>> It
  > >>>
  > >>>> is my experience that even when we think of ourselves as
  > >>> "culturally
  > >>>> competent," white people rarely take time to analyze what
  > >>> it
  > >>> means to
  > >>>
  > >>>> be white. Since we do not "locate" ourselves in a
  > >>> collective way
  > >>> as
  > >>>> whites, we continue to see ourselves as well-meaning
  > >>>> individuals. When the subject of race or racism comes up
  > >>> we feel
  > >>>> uncomfortable, so we avoid discussing it. In fact, the
  > >>> most
  > >>> common
  > >>>> response to racism among white people - as Angela Smith
  > >>> has
  > >>> pointed
  > >>>> out - is silence. Our colleagues and students of color
  > >>> take that
  > >>> as a
  > >>>
  > >>>> message: "This is not a subject for discussion with this
  > >>> person."
  > >>>> The opportunities for gaining real understanding about
  > >>> race and
  > >>> racism
  > >>>
  > >>>> in our classrooms and programs are l> The workshops that
  > >>> Andrea
  > >>> speaks about are ones that I lead, along
  > >>>> wiith a collective of about 50 people across the country,
  > >>> called
  > >>>> "Undoing Racism/Community Organizing" trainings. In these
  > >>> workshops,
  > >>>
  > >>>> we analyze the power dynamics of this country, create a
  > >>> common
  > >>>> language and analysis about racism, and develop
  > >>> strategies for
  > >>>> "undoing" the institutionalized racism that continue to
  > >>> operate
  > >>> in our
  > >>>
  > >>>> society. We find that when people understand how racism
  > >>> was
  > >>> created
  > >>>> and what keeps it in place, we are able to be more honest
  > >>> about
  > >>> our
  > >>>> role in this "race constructed" society. In my
  > >>> experience, as I
  > >>>> become more knowledgeable and self-reflective about
  > >>> racism, I am
  > >>> more
  > >>>
  > >>>> easily able to identify myself as a white woman with my
  > >>> colleagues and
  > >>>
  > >>>> students of color. That becomes a signal, "We can talk."
  > >>>>
  > >>>> Becoming anti-racist is a life-time journey for me. I
  > >>> still
  > >>> benefit
  > >>>> from being white in this society. I still make plenty of
  > >>> mistakes in
  > >>>
  > >>>> my assumptions and assessments about people and
  > >>> situations. But
  > >>> I
  > >>>> believe, after 25 years on this journey, that as I become
  > >>> clearer
  > >>>> about racism, I am able to form more real, trustworthy
  > >>> relationships
  > >>>> not only with people of color but with my own white
  > >>> colleagues,
  > >>>> friends and family.
  > >>>>
  > >>>> People interested in learning more about the Undoing
  > >>> Racism
  > >>> workshops
  > >>>
  > >>>> should go to the website of The People's Institute for
  > >>> Survival
  > >>> and
  > >>>> Beyond, www.pisab.org, where I am a trainer/organizer.
  > >>>>
  > >>>> Margery
  > >>>>
  > >>>> Andrea Wilder wrote:
  > >>>>> Good afternoon, Margery!
  > >>>>>
  > >>>>> I would be very interested in how you discern racism in
  > >>> individual
  > >>>>> classrooms or programs you have visited. Also, what do
  > >>> you do
  > >>> in
  > >>>>> workshops to increase sensitivity about racism, and how
  > >>> have
  > >>> the
  > >>>>> workshops shaped your responses to racism? That's a lot,
  > >>> but I
  > >>> know
  > >>>>> you have a lot of experience.
  > >>>>>
  > >>>>> Thank you.
  > >>>>>
  > >>>>> Andrea
  > >>>>>
  > >>>>>
  > >>>>> On Feb 18, 2008, at 9:43 AM, margery freeman wrote:
  > >>>>>
  > >>>>>> Good morning to participants!
  > >>>>>>
  > >>>>>> Thanks to Daphne Greenberg for setting up this
  > >>> discussion,
  > >>> which
  > >>>>> will
  > >>>>>> take place during the coming 2 weeks. We are
  > >>> especially happy
  > >>> to
  > >>>>> have
  > >>>>>> this opportunity, since it will enrich and inform a
  > >>> similar
  > >>>>> discussion
  > >>>>>> that will be taking place during the WE LEARN
  > >>> conference in
  > >>> New
  > >>>               York
  > >>>>>> City on March 7-8.
  > >>>>>>
  > >>>>>> I have worked for many years as an anti-racist
  > >>> organizer in
  > >>> the
  > >>>>>> education world, most recently in adult literacy
  > >>> education.
  > >>> My
  > >>>>>> experiences teache me that when we understand the
  > >>> construct
  > >>> of race
  > >>>>>> and racism that shapes our society - when we have a
  > >>> common
  > >>> language
  > >>>>>> and analysis - we can better understand how all of us
  > >>> "fit".
  > >>>               Racism
  > >>>>>> divides us all - white people, Latino/as,
  > >>> African-Americans,
  > >>>>>> Asian-Americans, indigenous people. Whether we're
  > >>> immigrants
  > >>> or
  > >>>>>> native-born, we are divided against one another in a
  > >>> society
  > >>> whose
  > >>>>>> institutions privilege one group (white) over everyone
  > >>> else.
  > >>> If we
  > >>>>>> are going to come together to organize for social
  > >>> justice and
  > >>>               racial
  > >>>>>> equity - for all people - we need to learn more about
  > >>> racism,
  > >>> what
  > >>>
  > >>>>> it
  > >>>>>> is, how it was constructed, and how it is kept in
  > >>> place. In
  > >>> our
  > >>>>>> society today, we have been told (most recently by the
  > >>> Supreme
  > >>>>> Court)
  > >>>>>> that we should be "colorblind." But being colorblind
  > >>> simply
  > >>> keeps
  > >>>
  > >>>>> the
  > >>>>>> current power arrangements in place. In the literacy
  > >>> world,
  > >>> that
  > >>>>>> means that People of Color are disproportionately
  > >>> mis-educated and
  > >>>>>> that the "school to prison pipeline" is filled
  > >>> primarily by
  > >>> Black
  > >>>>> and
  > >>>>>> Latino people.
  > >>>>>>
  > >>>>>> So how do we, as literacy practitioners, respond to
  > >>> this
  > >>> reality in
  > >>>>>> our classrooms and in our communities? What strategies
  > >>> do we
  > >>> use
  > >>>               to
  > >>>>>> open up authentic conversations about power and race
  > >>> both
  > >>> with our
  > >>>>>> students and with one another as colleagues?
  > >>>>>>
  > >>>>>> I look forward to your responses!
  > >>>>>>
  > >>>>>>> I would like to extend a very warm welcome to our
  > >>> guest
  > >>>>> facilitators:
  > >>>>>>> Margery Freeman and Kathy King. Starting today
  > >>> (through
  > >>> 2/29),
  > >>>               they
  > >>>>>>> will be facilitating a guest discussion on:
  > >>> "Discussing
  > >>> Diversity
  > >>>
  > >>>>> and
  > >>>>>>> Power Issues for Professional Development in Adult
  > >>> Literacy."
  > >>>>>>>
  > >>>>>>> Feel free to jump in with any thoughts or questions.
  > >>> Some
  > >>> ideas
  > >>>>> that
  > >>>>>>> we had for possible topics are:
  > >>>>>>>
  > >>>>>>> How are the issues of race, class, culture, gender,
  > >>> and
  > >>> power
  > >>>>>>> expressed
  > >>>>>>> in our adult literacy classes?
  > >>>>>>>
  > >>>>>>> Do you find that adult literacy students are willing
  > >>> to
  > >>> discuss
  > >>>>> issues
  > >>>>>>> related to race, class, culture, gender, and power?
  > >>> Why or
  > >>> why
  > >>>               not?
  > >>>>>>>
  > >>>>>>> What are the race, class, culture, gender, and power
  > >>> issues
  > >>> that
  > >>>>> are
  > >>>>>>> not
  > >>>>>>> discussed but you think would be beneficial to
  > >>> discuss?
  > >>>>>>>
  > >>>>>>> What barriers do you as an educator face in
  > >>> facilitating
  > >>> such a
  > >>>>>>> discussion?
  > >>>>>>>
  > >>>>>>> Do you have recommended strategies that you find
  > >>> successful
  > >>> to
  > >>>>>>> discussing race, class, culture, gender, and power
  > >>> issues?
  > >>>>>>>
  > >>>>>>> Daphne
  > >>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------
  > >>>>>>> National Institute for Literacy
  > >>>>>>> Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list
  > >>>>>>> PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov
  > >>>>>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings,
  > >>> please
  > >>> go to
  > >>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen
  > >>>>>>
  > >>>>>>
  > >>>>>>
  > >>>>>> Margery Freeman
  > >>>>>> The People's Institute for Survival and Beyond -
  > >>> Northeast
  > >>> Regional
  > >>>>>> Office
  > >>>>>> 718-918-2716; cell: 504-813-2368
  > >>>>>>
  > >>>>>> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast
  > >>> with
  > >>> Yahoo!
  > >>>>>>
  > >>> Search.----------------------------------------------------
  > >>>>>> National Institute for Literacy
  > >>>>>> Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list
  > >>>>>> PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov
  > >>>>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings,
  > >>> please
  > >>> go to
  > >>>>>>
  > >>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/
  > >>>>>
  > >>> povertyracewomen----------------------------------------------------
  > >>>>> National Institute for Literacy
  > >>>>> Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list
  > >>>>> PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov
  > >>>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings,
  > >>> please go
  > >>> to
  > >>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen
  > >>>>
  > >>>>
  > >>>> Margery Freeman
  > >>>> The People's Institute for Survival and Beyond -
  > >>> Northeast
  > >>> Regional
  > >>>> Office
  > >>>> 718-918-2716; cell: 504-813-2368
  > >>>>
  > >>>> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
  > >>>> ----------------------------------------------------
  > >>>> National Institute for Literacy
  > >>>> Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list
  > >>>> PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov
  > >>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings,
  > >>> please go
  > >>> to
  > >>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen
  > >>>               ----------------------------------------------------
  > >>>               National Institute for Literacy
  > >>>               Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list
  > >>>               PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov
  > >>>               To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings,  
  > >>> please
  > >>> go to
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  > >>>
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  > >>>             Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with  
  > >>> Yahoo!
  > >>> Mobile.
  > >>> Try it now.----------------------------------------------------
  > >>>             National Institute for Literacy
  > >>>             Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list
  > >>>             PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov
  > >>>             To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings,  
  > >>> please
  > >>> go to
  > >>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen
  > >>>
  > >>>
  > >>>           Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with 
  > >>> Yahoo!
  > >>> Search.
  > >>>           ----------------------------------------------------
  > >>>           National Institute for Literacy
  > >>>           Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list
  > >>>           PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov
  > >>>           To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings,  
  > >>> please go
  > >>> to
  > >>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen
  > >>>
  > >>>         ----------------------------------------------------
  > >>>         National Institute for Literacy
  > >>>         Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list
  > >>>         PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov
  > >>>         To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please  
  > >>> go to
  > >>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen
  > >>>
  > >>>       ----------------------------------------------------
  > >>>       National Institute for Literacy
  > >>>       Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list
  > >>>       PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov
  > >>>       To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go  
  > >>> to
  > >>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen
  > >>>
  > >>>
  > >>>
  > >>>     Margery Freeman
  > >>>     The People's Institute for Survival and Beyond - Northeast  
  > >>> Regional
  > >>> Office
  > >>>     718-918-2716; cell: 504-813-2368
  > >>>
  > >>>
  > >>>     Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
  > >>>     ----------------------------------------------------
  > >>>     National Institute for Literacy
  > >>>     Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list
  > >>>     PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov
  > >>>     To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
  > >>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen
  > >>>
  > >>>
  > >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
  > >>> ---------
  > >>>
  > >>>
  > >>>   ----------------------------------------------------
  > >>>   National Institute for Literacy
  > >>>   Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list
  > >>>   PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov
  > >>>   To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
  > >>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen
  > >>
  > >>
  > >>
  > >
  > >
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  > > ---------
  > >
  > >
  > >> ----------------------------------------------------
  > >> National Institute for Literacy
  > >> Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list
  > >> PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov
  > >> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
  > >> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen
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  > > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to  
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  > 
  > 
  > 
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  ----- Message from "karen.mobley at NORIS.ORG" <karen.mobley at NORIS.ORG> on Fri, 22 Feb 2008 19:54:49 +0000 ----- To: "Women and Literacy Discussion List Race" <povertyracewomen at nifl.gov>  
        Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 1643] Re: DiscussingDiversityandPowerIssuesforProfessional Development in Adult Literacy 

  I agree...HAVING a Confederate Flag is different than displaying one any where...whether flying it, hanging off something, in the back window of your car or truck...of course displaying in your own residence or barn or garage would be your business..as long as people do not have to see it daily....why have one on the first place is my question...for historical purposes is one thing...any thing else should be BANNED
  ---- Message from Andrea Wilder <andreawilder at comcast.net> at 2008-02-22 12:35:59 ------ 
  The flag should go in a museum.

  Andrea

  On Feb 22, 2008, at 12:14 PM, Katherine wrote:

  > I think there's a big difference between HAVING a Confederate flag and
  > FLYING it next to the American flag or in PLACE of the American flag.   
  > This
  > isn't a problem with Native Americans because they really are nations  
  > unto
  > themselves.  The Confederacy is not part of the United States.  It's a  
  > part
  > of history, yes, but not a nation no matter how much some people would   
  > like
  > it to be.
  >
  > Katherine Mercurio Gotthardt 
  > www.luxuriouschoices.net
  > ----- Original Message -----
  > From: <ejonline at comcast.net>
  > To: "The Poverty, Race,Women and Literacy Discussion List"
  > <povertyracewomen at nifl.gov>
  > Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 10:21 AM
  > Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 1636] Re:
  > DiscussingDiversityandPowerIssuesforProfessional Development in Adult
  > Literacy
  >
  >
  >> I think this point about the history and meaning of flags is very
  >> important. On recent "Real Time with Bill Mahr" there was a  
  >> discussion of
  > > the Confederate Flag being the symbol of racism, slavery and  
  >> oppression.
  >> Trace Adkins, a country singer, author and white Southerner said that  
  >> is
  >> not what it meant to him. The other panelists scoffed and said  
  >> basically,
  >> "well, that's what it looks like to African Americans". He in turn  
  >> asked
  >> what those panelists thought Native Americans felt when they see the  
  >> flag
  >> of the US. They did not pick up this thread at all, and in fact did  
  >> not
  >> want to engage him on it.
  >>
  >> And actually, I can't think of a time in the mainstream or independent
  >> news coverage of the confederate flag issue that anybody actually  
  >> raises
  >> this issue. The focus is solely on the confederate flag, and the
  >> assumption is that the correct thing to do is just to have the US flag
  >> flying. This certainly is a form of privilege - not having to defend  
  >> or
  >> explain your relationship to a symbol (the US flag, a Christian cross,
  >> etc.) because the meaning of that symbol is assumed to be  
  >> uncomplicated.
  >> So then those who support the Confederate flag become "racists" who  
  >> have
  >> to defend themselves and the racist history of US (as represented by  
  >> the
  >> stars and stripes) is willfully ignored.
  >>
  >> I'm not saying that people should not be engaged to discuss the  
  >> meaning
  >> they place in certain symbols, but I think it should be general rather
  > > than selective.
  >>
  >> Erik Jacobson
  >>
  >> -------------- Original message ----------------------
  >> From: "Katherine" <kgotthardt at comcast.net>
  >>> "For example, I hear  white privilege every time someone says that  
  >>> the
  >>> confederate flag is just a historical artifact."
  >>>
  >>> But for some people, it really is.  We can't deny that part of our
  >>> history.
  > >>
  >>> If the owner does indeed believe in the Confederate Flag as more than
  >>> just
  >>> history and instead believes in negative ideals of what that flag
  >>> represents
  >>> (such as white-only-privilege), it will come out in his/her behavior.
  >>> This is
  >>> true of any flag.
  > >>
  >>> Katherine Mercurio Gotthardt
  >>> www.luxuriouschoices.net
  >>>   ----- Original Message -----
  >>>   From: Andrea Wilder
  >>>    To: The Poverty, Race,Women and Literacy Discussion List
  >> >   Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 10:22 PM
  >>>   Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 1628] Re: Discussing
  >>> DiversityandPowerIssuesforProfessional Development in Adult Literacy
  > >>
  >>>
  >>>   Margery,
  >> >
  >>>   What are you calling "race" and "racism?" 
  >>>
  >>>   Andrea
  >>>
  > >>   On Feb 21, 2008, at 3:31 PM, Michael Tate wrote:
  >>>
  >>>
  >>>     I absolutely agree with you.  Privilege is an artifice that  
  >>> depends
  >>> upon
  >>> racism and the other isms.  People don??Tt earn or deserve the  
  >> > privileges
  >>> that
  >>> they get from an affiliation or that are denied or withheld because  
  >>> of an
  >>> affiliation.  Privilege is the baggage of domination.
  >>>
  >>>
  >>>
  >>>      However, as someone who appears to be white,  I can??Tt escape  
  >>> white
  >>> privilege by saying that I don??Tt believe in a 17
  >>>      th century construct.   White privilege begins to disappear when  
  >>> we
  >>> collectively recognize as you say ??~the institutional nature of
  >>> privileges??ÿ.
  >>> I??Tm probably a bit more pessimistic than you in believing that
  >>> privilege goes
  >>> underground rather than completely dying out.  For example, I hear   
  >>> white
  >>> privilege every time someone says that the confederate flag is just a
  >>> historical 
  >>> artifact.
  >>>
  >>>
  >>> 
  >>>     From: povertyracewomen-bounces at nifl.gov
  >>> [mailto:povertyracewomen-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of margery  
  >>> freeman
  >>>     Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 11:34 AM
  >>>     To: The Poverty, Race,Women and Literacy Discussion List
  >>>      Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 1623] Re: Discussing Diversity 
  >>> andPowerIssuesforProfessional Development in Adult Literacy 
  >>>
  >>>     Katherine, Michael and others:
  >>>
  >>>     Your lively responses remind me again that discussing race and  
  >> > racism
  >>> without having a common language means that we often talk right past  
  >>> one
  >>> another.  I've often thought that it's remarkable that in a society  
  >>> that
  >>> prides
  >>> itself on its can-do spirit, very few of us have studied what racism  
  >> > is
  >>> and what
  >>> we can do about it.  Each of us is left to decide what racism is  
  >>> based on
  >>> our
  >>> individual experiences and opinions.  (I'd hate to think what a fix  
  >>> sick
  >>> people
  >>> would be in if physicians dealt with disease the way our society  
  >>> deals
  >>> with
  >>> racism! )
  >>>
  >>>      What I have learned from history is that racial categories were 
  >>> invented -
  >>> made up - to keep a particular socio-political arrangement in place.  
  >>>  The
  >>> idea
  >>> of "white" as a positive legal status emerged out of the 17th century
  >>> colonial
  >>> experience.  It gradually expanded to include all people of Europe  
  >>> and
  >>> the
  >>> Middle East.  Until the Civil Rights movement of the 1960's, this
  >>> arrangement
  >>> was completely legal
  >>>
  >> >     My point is that "race" is a socio-political status rooted in an
  >>> ideology
  >>> that says white people are "better than," and everyone else is
  >>> less-than". 
  >>> (Thus the persistence of the word "minority".)  So today, while legal
  >>> white
  >>> supremacy is outlawed, it continues because it is woven into the very
  >>> fabric of
  >>> our history and society.  If we don't know this history, then the  
  >>> idea of
  >>> being 
  >>> privileged feels very uncomfortable.  But just ask yourselves, if we  
  >>> took
  >>> every
  > >> single KKK/white supremacist and put them in a rocket ship to the  
  >>> moon,
  >>> would we
  >>> still be dealing with racism?  When we think about "white" as a
  >> > collective
  >>> designation, the institutional nature of the privileges become  
  >>> clearer to
  >>> see.
  >>>
  >>>     This discussion needs to be much longer, doesn't it?
  >>>
  >>>      Margery
  >>>
  >>>      I'd like
  >>>
  >>>      Katherine <kgotthardt at comcast.net> wrote:
  >>>
  >>>       ÌøåÈåÀ
  >> >       Interesting examples, none of which apply to me or to some of  
  >>> the
  >>> people I
  >>> have been closest to in my lifetime, including my
  > >> parents/siblings/grandparents.
  >>>
  >>>       I understand the importance of things like title, work, etc.   
  >>> And I
  >>> am not
  >>> saying I don't have my education because I do, but I have had to  
  >>> struggle
  >>> for it
  > >> just like a lot of "minorities" (in quotes because again, what do we  
  >>> mean
  >>> when
  >>> we are saying "minority"?).  I have neither government affiliation  
  >>> nor
  >>> gender
  >>> nor direct ethnicity to put me in that category of privilege.  Of  
  >>> course,
  >>> I am
  >>> not the only one. I think that's the point I am trying to make.   
  >>> Race and 
  >>> color
  >>> do not equate privilege or socioeconomic status.  (And just because
  >>> someone is
  >>> government, by the way, doesn't mean he or she has status either.   
  >>> There
  >>> are
  >> > many POOR government workers.)
  >>>
  >>>        More than a few times, I've been mistaken for someone of  
  >>> privilege
  >>> by
  >> > whites because I've worked in education and I have practiced my   
  >>> writing
  >>> skills.
  >>> It's made me a target for agenda-driven people from all socioeconomic
  >>> statuses.
  >>> Some of these agendas have been violent, some political, some
  >>> discriminatory....you get the picture.  I'm not crying "victima de
  >>> sociodad"
  >>> LOL.  I'm just stating the facts.
  >>>
  >>>       As to this comment:
  >>>        "It doesnÌ¢?,Â?"¢t take long for Whites in Asia or Africa to
  >>> figure out
  >> > that they donÌ¢?,Â?"¢t have to stay at a resort hotel to be able to  
  >>> use
  >>> the
  >>> pool.  If youÌ¢?,Â?"¢re White, you look like you belong in the pool." 
  >>>
  >>>       I would argue that inmore resorts, it's the glaring white  
  >>> skinned
  >>> people
  >>> who don't look like they belong at the pool--never mind those of us  
  >>> white
  >>> people
  >>> who are overweight and have more visible cellulite which Africans,
  >>> African
  >>> Americans, Hispanics, Asians, etc. who seem to control the bodies and
  >>> images
  >>> much more gracefully. In some other cultures, issues of weight as a
  >>> necessary
  >>> element of fitting in don't seem to apply because the female body is
  >>> viewed as 
  >>> beautiful in many forms.  We white people are still at the mercy of  
  >>> the
  >>> "thin is
  >> > in" mentality, no matter what we want to say.  White, big thighs are  
  >>> just
  >>> not
  >>> "the thing."  Darker heritages have broader (no pun intended)
  >> > perspectives on
  >>> characteristics like size, shape, etc.  This is something to be  
  >>> envious
  >>> of. It's
  >>> a privilege.
  >>>
  >>>
  >>>       Our image of the resort person is more and morethe exotic,
  >>> tanned/brown/black person who has that "native" look.  Fashion mags,
  >>> television, 
  >>> and the movies in some ways have made being white passÌfå©.  We're  
  >>> GEEKS!
  >>> LOL. 
  >>> And I'm okay with that but I've been known to say, "I wish I was  
  >>> black. I
  >>> think
  >>> I'd be a lot prettier if I were black."
  >>>
  >>>       Immigrants and African Americans hold a status and privilege  
  >>> all
  >>> their
  >>> own, but not enough in the socioeconomic sense. I think that kind of
  >>> privilege
  >>> stems from strong cultural ties that Caucasians in this country have  
  >>> left
  >>> behind
  >>> because they've lived here so long, generation after generation.   
  >>> It's
  >> > privilege
  >>> to say, "This is my family.  This is my heritage.  These are my  
  >>> people."
  >>> It's
  >>> privilege to have extended family.  It's privilege to have groups out
  >>> there
  >>> supporting you because you hold a particular racial or ethnic status.
  >>> These 
  >>> privileges are not the same as affluence or socioeconomic position,  
  >>> but
  >>> they are
  >> > some that many Caucasians are envious of.  If you look at the white
  >>> American
  >>> cultural re-birth of what many call "family values," you hear it  
  >>> loud and
  >>> clear:
  >>> "we want what THEY have because somehow, we've LOST it."
  >>>
  >>>        Many Caucasians feel lost. The envious ones who resent the
  >>> privileges of
  >>> "minorities" sometimes resort to using anger and hatred to regain  
  >>> that
  >>> sense of
  >>> lost connection and community.  They form groups of "White  
  >>> Nationalists"
  >>> or
  >>> "White Supremacists" to protect themselves from what they see as a
  >>> threat.  They
  >>> form strong lobbying and citizen groups aimed at shutting down open
  >>> communications about race, culture, and society.
  >>>
  >> >       Hategroups and bigots want to break up immigrant families. Why?
  >>> Because
  >>> when they do, they know they destroy the spirit, the incentive, and  
  >>> the
  >>> strength
  >>> that close ties create.  They know people without ties have less  
  >>> power:
  >>> "Divide
  >>> and conquer." We have only to look at the dividing of families in the
  >>> slavery
  >> > era and the Holocaust to understand what kind of destructive power
  >>> division
  >>> holds.   And we need not look any further than our own culture to
  >>> understand
  > >> what the loss of family has done to us as a society.
  >> >
  >>>       The KKK, white nationalists, etc.are nothing but jealous,  
  >>> scared
  >>> and
  >>> hateful.  People like me can't tolerate their ridiculousness, their
  >>> attitudes,
  >> > or their agendas.  We think they bring "us" down.  But that doesn't  
  >>> mean
  >>> we
  >>> don't feel the loss of family, connections, and the kind of security
  >> > those
  >>> things brings.  And it doesn't mean we should all be lumped together  
  >>> as
  >>> "those
  >>> privileged, racist, whites."
  >>>
  > >>       As soon as we start to generalize, we fail to have meaningful
  >>> dialogue. We
  > >> can see this happening in the immigration discussions right now.   
  >>> It's
  >>> hard not
  >>> to do, but we MUST remind one another NOT to do it.  Heck, when I  
  >>> talk, I
  >>> forget
  >>> all the time.  When I do, it's because some kind of emotionalism or
  > >> distraction
  >>> is keeping me from communicating the way I want to.  I believe there  
  >>> are
  >> > MANY
  >>> from ALL ethnic backgrounds who have the same problem, and it's even  
  >>> more
  >>> noticeable when there is an actual language barrier.
  >>>
  > >>       So privilege? Nah.  I don't identify with that.  I identify  
  >>> more
  >>> with the
  >>> poverty and struggles of African Americans and immigrant  
  >>> communities, but
  >> > because I don't have family connections anywhere near me and I seem
  >>> white, I
  >>> don't fit there, either.
  >> >
  >>>       I'm not saying African Americans and immigrantsdon't have  
  >>> struggles 
  >>> many
  >>> white people don't have.  It's true!  And it's based on a history of
  >>> white
  >> > oppression.  They are cultures and races trying to raise themselves  
  >>> up
  >>> and
  >>> overcome a history of oppression.  But remember, many of "us" are as
  >>> well.  In
  >>> every ethnic and racial group, there are those who abuse people in  
  >>> the
  >> > very same
  >>> ethnic or racial group which only serves in weakening the group.  It
  >>> happens to
  >>> whites more than people know or acknowledge.
  >>>
  >>>       Anyone else here in the same boat? Come on.  We're teachers!   
  >>> LOL.
  >>> How
  >>> much socioeconomic status do we think WE have?
  > >>
  >>>
  >>>
  >>>        Katherine Mercurio Gotthardt
  >>>        www.luxuriouschoices.net
  >>>
  >> >         ----- Original Message -----
  >>>         From: Michael Tate
  >>>          To: The Poverty, Race,Women and Literacy Discussion List
  >> >         Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 8:21 PM
  >>>          Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 1617] Re: Discussing Diversity and
  >>> PowerIssuesforProfessional Development in Adult Literacy 
  >>>
  >>>          Privilege is subtle, but profound nonetheless.  You can be
  >>> privileged
  >>> because of your race, gender, age, class, position, friendships,  
  >>> accent,
  >>> dress,
  >>> etc.   IÌ¢?,Â?"¢ve always thought it was a very helpful exercise to
  >>> figure out
  >>> what privileges are gained, and what privileges are lost through  
  >>> each of
  >>> our
  >>> affiliations.  Here are some examples of privilege in action.
  >>>
  > >>
  >>>
  >>>          My wife and I were talking about where she might take our  
  >>> dog for
  >>> a
  >>> walk.  I suggested a  somewhat secluded trail around a lake.  She  
  >>> said
  >>> she
  >>> wouldnÌ¢?,Â?"¢t go there alone, that it would be dangerous.    
  >>> Generally,
  >>> men have
  >>> the privilege of going just about anywhere they want to go by  
  > >> themselves.
  >>>
  >>>
  >>>
  > >>         I submitted a legislative page application for my daughter  
  >>> to my
  >>> state
  >>> senator from my home computer.  About three weeks into the  
  >>> legislative
  > >> session,
  >>> I hadnÌ¢?,Â?"¢t heard anything.   I started getting concerned that  
  >>> she
  >>> might not
  >>> get a chance to page.   I sent a follow-up email from my work  
  >>> computer.
  > >> At the
  >>> bottom of the email was my job title and the state agency I work for.
  >>> Almost
  >>> immediately I got a response from the senatorÌ¢?,Â?"¢s staffer,  
  > >> saying
  >>> sheÌ¢?,Â
  >>> ?"¢d expedite my daughterÌ¢?,Â?"¢s application and apologizing for
  >>> overlooking
  >>> her application.
  >>>
  >>>
  >>>
  >>>          It doesnÌ¢?,Â?"¢t take long for Whites in Asia or Africa to
  >>> figure out
  >>> that they donÌ¢?,Â?"¢t have to stay at a resort hotel to be able to  
  >>> use
  >>> the
  >>> pool.  If youÌ¢?,Â?"¢re White, you look like you belong in the pool.
  > >>
  >>>
  >>>
  >>>
  >>>
  >>>         Michael Tate
  >>>
  >>>
  >>>
  >>>
  >> >
  >>>
  >>>
  >>>
  >>>
  > >>         From: povertyracewomen-bounces at nifl.gov
  >>> [mailto:povertyracewomen-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Katherine
  > >>         Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 4:03 PM
  >>>          To: The Poverty, Race,Women and Literacy Discussion List 
  >>>         Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 1615] Re: Discussing Diversity and
  >>> PowerIssuesfor Professional Development in Adult Literacy
  >>>
  >>>         Margery, you wrote, "In this race-constructed society, white
  >>> people have 
  >>> a privileged status - even though it is unearned and unsought-after."
  >>>
  >>>          By most people's standards, I'm considered pretty "white."   
  >>> And
  >>> if I'm
  >> > privileged, then I must have missed the announcement somehow : )
  >>>
  >>>          Don't you think it's a generalization that "whites are  
  > >> privileged
  >>> and
  >>> minorities are not"?  Don't you think generalizations really hurt us  
  >>> in
  >>> discussions of race and diversity?
  >>>
  >>>         Donna, you wrote, "....for whites to realize that the shift  
  >>> is 
  >>> inevitable and that it will be less painful for whites if they become
  >>> advocates
  >>> of a just and peaceful sharing of power and wealth... "
  >>>
  >>>          EVERYONE needs to become an advocate of peace and justice,  
  >>> not
  >>> just
  >>> whites.  I think when some people read phrases like this, they get  
  >>> put
  >>> off, and
  >>> justifiably so.  It's scary to have someone say, "Hey....your days of
  >>> glory are
  >>> over...be prepared to be treated poorly," because in a sense, that's  
  > >> what
  >>> is
  >>> being communicated.  I'm sure that's not what was intended, but  
  >>> anyone
  >>> who
  >>> really does fear becoming a white minority would read it that way.
  >>>
  >>>
  >> >         Katherine Mercurio Gotthardt
  >>>          www.luxuriouschoices.net
  >>>
  >>>            ----- Original Message ----- 
  >>>            From: margery freeman
  >>>            To: The Poverty, Race,Women and Literacy Discussion List
  >>>            Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 5:36 PM
  >>>           Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 1612] Re: Discussing Diversity  
  >>> and 
  >>> Power
  >>> Issuesfor Professional Development in Adult Literacy
  >>>
  >>>            I also wanted to respond to Donna Brian's post on Monday
  >>> (Thanks,
  >>> Donna!).
  >>>
  >>>            Donna wrote, in part:  "...With the unequal distribution of
  >>> power,
  >>> privilege, and wealth that we currently have in the U.S. favoring  
  >>> whites, 
  >>> what
  >>> will happen when  whites are the minority?  Will it be another South
  >>> African
  >> > story with the whites trying to maintain power and privilege and   
  >>> wealth
  >>> and keep
  >>> people of color as second-class citizens, or will it be that,  
  >>> because we
  >>> are a
  >>> democracy, we will be able to avoid that situation through people of
  >>> color
  >> > claiming their rights through democratic action?  The power and  
  >>> privilege
  >>> of
  >>> white people is ultimately unsustainable, but the question is what
  >>> processes
  >>> will we go through before we come out on the other side of this  
  >>> shift?  I
  >>> see
  >>> this as more of an educational issue for whites to realize that the  
  >>> shift
  >>> is
  >>> inevitable and that it will be less painful for whites if they become
  >>> advocates
  >>> of a just and peaceful sharing of power and wealth... "
  >>>
  >>>            I think that you've done a great job of expressing this
  >>> unspoken fear 
  >>> shared by many white people, Donna:  "Are 'they' going to do to us  
  >>> what
  >>> we did
  >>> to them?" dominates much of conservative mainstream culture.  While  
  >>> it's
  >>> no
  >>> longer politically correct to express such fears directly, they  
  >>> continue
  > >> to be
  >>> said in newer ways - particularly in the immigration debates.
  >>>
  >>>            Our mainstream culture is very dichotomous:  We see things  
  >>> as
  >>> either/or:  black/white, good/bad, smart/dumb, etc.  This sort of 
  >>> thinking
  >>> blocks us from seeing other possibilities, I think.  As Donna points  
  >>> out,
  >>> if
  >>> white people could only realize that a more equitable (both/and)
  >>> democracy would
  >>> benefit us all, we could begin to "undo" the terrible inequities  
  >> > imbedded
  >>> in our
  >>> social structures that make it so difficult for People of Color to
  >>> achieve
  > >> parity with white people.  (A wonderful book, published by United  
  >>> for a
  >>> Fair
  >>> Economy called The Color of Wealth: The Story Behind the U.S. Racial
  > >> Wealth
  >>> Divide, offers a great history of how these inequities came about and
  >>> what keeps
  >>> them in place.)
  >>>
  >>>            One last point:  Race is about status, not numbers.  That's
  >>> why, in
  >>> some communities with majority Black or Latino populations, you'll  
  > >> hear
  >>> the term
  >>> "majority minority."  In this race-constructed society, white people  
  >>> have
  >>> a
  >>> privileged status - even though it is unearned and unsought-after.    
  >>> As
  > >> we begin
  >>> to better understand what that means, we realize that race was
  >>> constructed to
  >>> divide us!  Knowing that, we can begin to work together toward a  
  >>> society
  >>> in
  >>> which everyone is treated as fully human.
  >>>            Others' thoughts?
  >>>            Margery
  >>>
  > >>           margery freeman <margeryfreeman at yahoo.com> wrote:
  >>>
  >> >              Andy,
  >>>              Your "normalizing" discussions about race and racism  
  >>> ("weave
  >>> observations of it throughout") is what I believe is crucial to our  
  >>> being
  >>> able
  >>> to push ahead to develop real conversation, both among ourselves as
  >>> practitioners and with our students.  The examples you give are very
  >>> helpful, I
  >>> think.  Would you expand a little, to describe what sort of  
  >>> responses you
  >>> get?
  > >> Do you get different sorts of responses from different sorts of  
  >>> students?
  >>> Do you
  >>> find much push-back?
  >>>              Have others taken a similar casual and ongoing approach  
  >>> in
  >>> talking
  >>> with colleagues and students about race and racism?
  >>>              Margery
  >>>
  >>>              Andy Nash <andy_nash at worlded.org> wrote: 
  >>>
  >>>                Andrea,
  >>>                 ThatÌfå¢Ì¢??såÂÌ¢??zå¢s interesting, because I hear
  >>> MargeryÌfå¢Ì¢
  >>> ??såÂÌ¢??zå¢s point as being that the
  >>>                discussion really needs to be among the community of  
  >>> adult
  >>> educators Ìfå¢Ì¢??såÂÌ¢?,"
  >>>                 mostly white people (educating ourselves by coming to  
  > >> terms
  >>> with
  >>> our
  >>>                white identity and white privilege). I was going to  
  >>> chime
  >>> in that
  >>> the
  >> >                way I have tried to address race in the classroom or  
  >>> in PD
  >>> is to
  >>> weave
  >>>                observations of it throughout Ìfå¢Ì¢??såÂÌ¢?," not  
  >>> have a
  > >> direct
  >>> Ìfå¢Ì¢??såÂÌ.??odiscussionÌfå¢Ì¢??såÂÌ,åÿ of
  > >>                racism, but bring normalcy to talking about race as a
  >>> factor that
  >>>                affects our daily lives.
  >>>
  >>>                For example, the illustration I use for talking about  
  >>> how
  >> > to use
  >>>                standards to help students speak effectively in real  
  >>> life
  >>> situations is
  >>>                often an example about a worker who believes his lack  
  >>> of
  >>> promotion
  >>> may
  >>>                be due to discrimination and needs to figure out how to
  >>> talk about
  >>> that
  >>>                at his performance review. In coaching a math teacher  
  >>> who
  >>> was
  >>> doing
  >>>                activities about the importance of assets (as opposed  
  >>> to
  >>> just a
  >>> higher
  >> >                wage) to increase wealth and get out of poverty, I
  > >> suggested she
  >>> have
  >>>                the class look at some charts comparing the assets of
  >>> whites and 
  >>> blacks.
  >>>                This allowed us to work on math problems while also
  >>> noticing the
  >> >                profound wealth gap that persists by race. And when I  
  >>> talk
  >>> about
  >>> my own
  >>>                experience, I try to make as many observations based  
  >>> on my
  >>> race as
  >>> I do
  >>>                about being female, a resident of Boston, or any other
  >>> aspect of
  >>> my
  >>>                 identity. That might include the observation that my
  >>> neighborhood
  >>> is
  >>>                getting whiter and whiter, or in talking about my
  >>> familyÌfå¢Ì¢??såÂ
  >>> Ì¢??zå¢s educational
  >>>                background mentioning that my brother got into a  
  >>> private
  >>> school
  >>> because
  >>>                my father was an alum (reflecting a different kind of
  >>> Ìfå¢Ì¢??såÂ
  >>> Ì.??oaffirmative
  >>>                 actionÌfå¢Ì¢??såÂÌ,åÿ that has privileged the white   
  >>> and the
  >>> well-off). The more aware
  > >>                I become, the more I notice race and class influences
  >>> everywhere,
  >>> and
  >>>                the more I signal to students that  
  >>> itÌfå¢Ì¢??såÂÌ¢??zå¢s
  >>> okay to
  >>> name it.
  >>>
  >>>                Andy Nash
  >> >                NELRC/World Education
  >>>
  >>>
  >>>>>> Andrea Wilder 02/20/08 9:44 AM >>>
  > >>                Margery,
  >>>
  >>>                I feel we should have any non-White members of this  
  >>> list
  >>> serv
  >>> write
  >>>                 widely on this topic, other wise the topic becomes a
  >>> monologue,
  >>> when
  >>>                what we need is a dialogue. Perhaps writers should  
  >>> identify
  > >> themselves
  >>>
  >>>                as to "race?"
  >>>
  >>>                Thanks for listening.
  >> >
  >>>                Andrea
  >>>
  >>>                 On Feb 19, 2008, at 9:37 AM, margery freeman wrote:
  >>>
  >>>> Thanks to all who have written such thoughtful comments
  >>> and
  >>>> questions. I believe that the wealth of experience and
  >>> ideas
  >>> among
  >> >> adult learners and educators hold the seeds of our
  >>> transformation as a
  >>>
  >>>> field. In fact, I entered adult literacy work because, as
  >>> an
  >>> > antiracist organizer, I thought that it was the natural
  >>> place to
  >>> work
  >>>
  >>>> for social justice. Despite our field's distance from our
  >>>> revolutionary roots (e.g. Moonlight schools of
  >>> Appalachia; 
  >>> Freedom
  >>>> Schools of Mississippi), many adult literacy organizers
  >>> today
  >>> use
  > >>> popular education strategies to strengthen our connection
  >>> with
  >>> our
  >>>> students and their families. I believe that understanding
  >>> racism
  >> > is
  >>>
  >>>> an essential strategy in that work.
  >>>>
  >>>> Andrea Wilder asks How do we discern racism in individual
  >>> classrooms
  >>>> or programs?
  >>>>
  >>>> The majority of us who work in adult literacy are white
  >>> women.
  >>> And 
  >>>> many of us bring unexamined cultural biases into our
  >>> classrooms.
  >>> It
  >>>
  >>> > is my experience that even when we think of ourselves as
  >> > "culturally
  >>>> competent," white people rarely take time to analyze what
  >>> it
  >>> means to
  >> >
  >>>> be white. Since we do not "locate" ourselves in a 
  >>> collective way
  >>> as
  >>>> whites, we continue to see ourselves as well-meaning
  >>>> individuals. When the subject of race or racism comes up
  >>> we feel
  >>>> uncomfortable, so we avoid discussing it. In fact, the
  >>> most
  >>> common
  >>>> response to racism among white people - as Angela Smith
  >>> has
  > >> pointed
  >>>> out - is silence. Our colleagues and students of color
  >>> take that
  >>> as a
  >> >
  >>>> message: "This is not a subject for discussion with this
  >>> person."
  >>>> The opportunities for gaining real understanding about
  >>> race and
  >>> racism
  >>>
  >>>> in our classrooms and programs are l> The workshops that
  >>> Andrea
  >>> speaks about are ones that I lead, along
  >>>> wiith a collective of about 50 people across the country,
  >>> called
  >>> > "Undoing Racism/Community Organizing" trainings. In these
  >> > workshops,
  >>>
  >>>> we analyze the power dynamics of this country, create a
  >>> common
  >>> > language and analysis about racism, and develop
  >>> strategies for
  >>>> "undoing" the institutionalized racism that continue to
  >>> operate
  >>> in our
  >> >
  >>>> society. We find that when people understand how racism
  >>> was
  >>> created
  >>>> and what keeps it in place, we are able to be more honest
  >>> about 
  >>> our
  >>>> role in this "race constructed" society. In my
  >>> experience, as I
  >>>> become more knowledgeable and self-reflective about
  >>> racism, I am
  >>> more
  >>>
  >>>> easily able to identify myself as a white woman with my
  >>> colleagues and
  >>>
  >>>> students of color. That becomes a signal, "We can talk."
  >>>>
  >>>> Becoming anti-racist is a life-time journey for me. I
  >>> still
  >>> benefit
  >>>> from being white in this society. I still make plenty of
  >>> mistakes in
  >>>
  >>>> my assumptions and assessments about people and
  >>> situations. But 
  >>> I
  >>>> believe, after 25 years on this journey, that as I become
  >>> clearer
  >>>> about racism, I am able to form more real, trustworthy
  >>> relationships
  >>>> not only with people of color but with my own white
  >>> colleagues,
  >>>> friends and family.
  >>>>
  >>>> People interested in learning more about the Undoing
  >>> Racism
  >>> workshops
  >>>
  >>>> should go to the website of The People's Institute for
  >>> Survival
  >>> and
  >>>> Beyond, www.pisab.org, where I am a trainer/organizer.
  >>>>
  >>>> Margery
  >>>>
  >> >> Andrea Wilder wrote:
  >>>>> Good afternoon, Margery!
  >>>>>
  >>>>> I would be very interested in how you discern racism in
  >>> individual
  > >>>> classrooms or programs you have visited. Also, what do
  >>> you do
  >>> in
  >>>>> workshops to increase sensitivity about racism, and how
  >>> have
  >> > the
  >>>>> workshops shaped your responses to racism? That's a lot,
  >>> but I
  >>> know
  >>>> > you have a lot of experience.
  >>>>>
  >>> >> Thank you.
  >>>>>
  >>>>> Andrea 
  >>>>>
  >>>>>
  >>>>> On Feb 18, 2008, at 9:43 AM, margery freeman wrote:
  >>>>>
  >>>>>> Good morning to participants!
  >>>> >>
  >>>>>> Thanks to Daphne Greenberg for setting up this
  >>> discussion,
  >>> which
  >>> >> will
  >>>>>> take place during the coming 2 weeks. We are
  >>> especially happy
  >>> to
  > >>>> have
  >>>>>> this opportunity, since it will enrich and inform a
  >>> similar
  >>>>> discussion
  >>>>>> that will be taking place during the WE LEARN
  >>> conference in
  >>> New
  >>>                York
  >>>>>> City on March 7-8.
  >> >>>>
  >>>>>> I have worked for many years as an anti-racist
  >>> organizer in
  >>> the
  >> >>>> education world, most recently in adult literacy
  > >> education.
  >>> My
  >>>>>> experiences teache me that when we understand the
  >>> construct 
  >>> of race
  >>>>>> and racism that shapes our society - when we have a
  >>> common
  >>> language 
  >>>>>> and analysis - we can better understand how all of us
  >>> "fit".
  >>>                Racism
  >>> >>> divides us all - white people, Latino/as,
  >>> African-Americans,
  >>>>>> Asian-Americans, indigenous people. Whether we're
  >>> immigrants
  >>> or
  > >>>>> native-born, we are divided against one another in a
  >>> society
  >>> whose
  >>>>>> institutions privilege one group (white) over everyone
  >>> else. 
  >>> If we
  >>>>>> are going to come together to organize for social
  >>> justice and
  >>>                racial
  >>>>>> equity - for all people - we need to learn more about
  >>> racism,
  >>> what
  >>>
  >>>>> it
  >>>>>> is, how it was constructed, and how it is kept in
  >>> place. In
  > >> our
  >>>>>> society today, we have been told (most recently by the
  >>> Supreme
  >>>>> Court) 
  >>>>>> that we should be "colorblind." But being colorblind
  >>> simply
  >>> keeps
  >>>
  >>>>> the
  >>>>>> current power arrangements in place. In the literacy
  >>> world,
  >> > that
  >>>>>> means that People of Color are disproportionately
  >>> mis-educated and
  >>>>> > that the "school to prison pipeline" is filled
  >>> primarily by
  >>> Black
  >>>>> and
  >> >>>> Latino people.
  >>>>>>
  >>> >>> So how do we, as literacy practitioners, respond to
  >> > this
  >>> reality in
  >>>>>> our classrooms and in our communities? What strategies
  >>> do we
  >>> use
  >>>                to
  >>>>>> open up authentic conversations about power and race
  >>> both
  >>> with our
  >>>>>> students and with one another as colleagues?
  >>>>>>
  >>>>> > I look forward to your responses!
  >>>>>>
  > >>>>>> I would like to extend a very warm welcome to our 
  >>> guest
  >>>>> facilitators:
  >>> >>>> Margery Freeman and Kathy King. Starting today
  >> > (through
  >>> 2/29),
  >>>                they
  >>>>>>> will be facilitating a guest discussion on:
  >>> "Discussing
  >>> Diversity
  >>>
  > >>>> and
  >>>>>>> Power Issues for Professional Development in Adult
  >>> Literacy."
  >>> >>>>
  >>>>>>> Feel free to jump in with any thoughts or questions.
  >>> Some
  >>> ideas
  >>>>> that
  >>>>>>> we had for possible topics are:
  >>>>>>>
  >>>>> >> How are the issues of race, class, culture, gender,
  >>> and
  >>> power
  >>>>>>> expressed
  > >>>>>> in our adult literacy classes?
  >>>> >>>
  >>>>>>> Do you find that adult literacy students are willing
  >>> to
  >>> discuss
  >> >>> issues
  >>>>>>> related to race, class, culture, gender, and power?
  >>> Why or
  >>> why
  >>>                not?
  >>>>>>>
  >>> >>>> What are the race, class, culture, gender, and power
  >>> issues
  >>> that
  >>>>> are
  > >>>>>> not
  >>>>>>> discussed but you think would be beneficial to
  >>> discuss?
  >>> >>>>
  >>>>>>> What barriers do you as an educator face in
  >>> facilitating
  >>> such a
  > >>>>>> discussion?
  >>>>>>>
  > >>>>>> Do you have recommended strategies that you find
  >>> successful
  >>> to
  >>>>>>> discussing race, class, culture, gender, and power
  >>> issues? 
  >>>>>>>
  >>>>>>> Daphne
  >>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------
  >>>>> >> National Institute for Literacy
  >>>>>>> Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list
  >>>>>> > PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov
  >>>>>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings,
  >>> please
  >>> go to
  >>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen
  >>>> >>
  >>>>>>
  >>>>>>
  >> >>>> Margery Freeman
  >>>>>> The People's Institute for Survival and Beyond -
  >>> Northeast
  >> > Regional
  >>>>>> Office
  >>>>>> 718-918-2716; cell: 504-813-2368
  >>>>>>
  >>> >>> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast
  > >> with
  >>> Yahoo!
  >>>>>>
  >> > Search.----------------------------------------------------
  >> >>>> National Institute for Literacy
  >>>>>> Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list
  >>>>>> PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov
  >>>>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings,
  >>> please
  >>> go to
  >>>>>>
  >>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/
  >>>>>
  >> > povertyracewomen----------------------------------------------------
  >>>>> National Institute for Literacy
  >>>> > Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list
  >>>>> PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov
  >>>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings,
  >>> please go
  >>> to
  >>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen 
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>> Margery Freeman 
  >>>> The People's Institute for Survival and Beyond -
  >>> Northeast
  >>> Regional
  >>>> Office 
  >>>> 718-918-2716; cell: 504-813-2368
  >>>>
  >>>> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
  >> >> ----------------------------------------------------
  >> >> National Institute for Literacy
  >>>> Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list
  >>>> PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov
  >>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings,
  >>> please go
  >>> to
  > >>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen
  > >>                ----------------------------------------------------
  >>>                National Institute for Literacy
  >>>                Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list
  >>>                PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov
  >>>                To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings,  
  >>> please
  >>> go to
  >>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen
  >>>
  >>>
  >>>              Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with  
  >>> Yahoo!
  >>> Mobile.
  >>> Try it now.----------------------------------------------------
  >> >              National Institute for Literacy
  >>>              Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list
  >>>              PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov
  > >>              To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings,  
  > >> please
  >>> go to
  >>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen
  >>>
  >>>
  >>>            Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with
  >>> Yahoo!
  >>> Search.
  >>>             ----------------------------------------------------
  >>>           National Institute for Literacy
  >>>            Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list
  >>>            PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov
  >>>            To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings,  
  >>> please go
  >>> to 
  >>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen
  >>>
  >>>          ----------------------------------------------------
  >>>         National Institute for Literacy
  >>>          Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list
  >>>          PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov
  > >>         To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please  
  >>> go to
  >>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen
  > >>
  >>>        ----------------------------------------------------
  >>>       National Institute for Literacy
  > >>       Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list
  >>>        PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov 
  >>>        To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go  
  >>> to
  >>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen
  >>>
  >>>
  >>>
  >>>     Margery Freeman
  >>>     The People's Institute for Survival and Beyond - Northeast  
  >>> Regional
  >> > Office
  >>>     718-918-2716; cell: 504-813-2368
  >>>
  >>>
  >>>      Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
  >>>     ---------------------------------------------------- 
  >>>     National Institute for Literacy
  >>>     Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list
  >>>      PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov
  >>>     To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
  >> > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen
  >>> 
  >>>
  >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
  >>> ---------
  >>>
  >>>
  >>>   ----------------------------------------------------
  >> >   National Institute for Literacy
  >>>    Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list
  >>>    PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov
  >>>   To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
  >>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen
  >>
  > >
  >>
  >
  >
  > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- 
  > ---------
  >
  >
  >> ----------------------------------------------------
  >> National Institute for Literacy
  >> Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list
  >> PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov
  >> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
  >> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen
  >
  > ----------------------------------------------------
  > National Institute for Literacy
  > Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list
  > PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov
  > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to  
  > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen
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  ----------------------------------------------------
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  PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov
  To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen----------------------------------------------------
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