THE UNITED STATES COMMISSION ON
INTERNATIONAL RELIGIOUS FREEDOM
BANGLADESH: USCIRF FORUM
ON BANGLADESH'S
UPCOMING NATIONAL ELECTIONS
SPEAKERS:
AMBASSADOR A. TARIQ KARIM,
FORMER AMBASSADOR OF BANGLADESH
TO THE UNITED STATES
SELIG S. HARRISON, DIRECTOR, THE ASIA
PROGRAM,
THE CENTER FOR INTERNATIONAL POLICY
CYNTHIA R. BUNTON, REGIONAL PROGRAM DIRECTOR FOR ASIA, THE INTERNATIONAL
REPUBLICAN INSTITUTE
Patrick MERLOE,
senior
associate and director for Programs on Election Processes, the National Democratic
Institute for International Affairs
FELICE D. GAER, CHAIR, USCIRF
MICHAEL CROMARTIE, VICE CHAIR, USCIRF
PREETA BANSAL, COMMISSIONER, USCIRF
TUESDAY, OCTOBER 17, 2006, 3:00-5:00 PM
Transcript by:
Federal News
Service
Washington, D.C.
FELICE
GAER:Ladies and gentlemen, thank you
very much for joining us this afternoon.My name is Felice Gaer.I'm
currently chair of the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom,
which, as you know, is an independent bipartisan federal agency. I'm welcoming you all here to our policy
forum on the Bangladesh
elections, promoting democracy and protecting rights.I'm very pleased to be joined today, not only
by all of you on the panel and in the room, but also by two of my colleagues on
the Commission, who traveled with me to Bangladesh earlier this year - to my
left, unusually, Michael Cromartie,
and to my right, even more unusually - (laughter) - Preeta
Bansal, both of who of whom are former Commission
chairs.
The three
of us, joined by the Commission's executive director, Joseph Crapa - I'm
looking for him now.Joe, just raise
your hand.There he is, also, on my
right.And our senior policy analyst for
Bangladesh,
Steve Snow, over there.We traveled at
the invitation of the government of Bangladesh.
For those
unfamiliar with the Commission, it was established in 1998 by Congress as an
independent agency to monitor the status of religious freedom throughout the
world and to make recommendations to the President, the Secretary of State, and
the Congress, to ensure that the promotion of human rights, including religious
freedom, is a key element of American foreign policy.The Commission is not a part of the Department
of State or the executive branch.It is
an independent body.
Now, to carry out its mandate, the Commission
conducts fact-finding missions abroad and holds public events such as today's
forum.With this forum, we mark the
release of our Policy Focus on Bangladesh,
which is available for you here.It's
also available on our website: www.uscirf.gov.And the forum will continue the Commission's efforts to encourage
greater attention by U.S.
policymakers and the media to Bangladesh,
the world's third-largest Muslim country in terms of population: 145 million
when last estimated.
I should
note that in the Commission's work regarding other predominately Muslim
countries, we have regularly held up the constitution of Bangladesh as a
positive example of guarantees of human rights, including the guarantee of
freedom religion or belief and the equality of all persons before the law.
Now, in our
assessment, there have been few functioning moderate democracies in the Muslim
world.Bangladesh is still one of them.However, having recently visited Bangladesh, the
Commission, very frankly, is concerned that this democracy is in peril because
of religious militancy, chronic political violence, and growing intolerance
towards religious minorities and towards those within the majority community
who hold differing views about Islam and the role of Islam in Bangladeshi
society.
Islamic
influence has grown in politics and in society in the last few years.Some aspects of this development have
troubling implications for human rights.Religious militants have attacked politicians, journalists, women, and
other NGO leaders who oppose extremist interpretations of Islam or who try to
empower women.Journalists cannot write
freely about certain issues, for example, about the Jamaat Party, without
facing death threats and assassination attempts.Eight journalists, at least, have been the
victims of such attacks and some of you may have seen in the Wall Street
Journal in the last week a report about a ninth journalist, Salah Choudhury.
The secular
legal system in Bangladesh
is under violent assault from extremists calling for the imposition of a form
of Islamic law.Our Commission is also
concerned that the upcoming elections in January 2007 could see the recurrence
of the anti-minority violence and intimidation that occurred with the last
national elections in 2001.How Bangladesh
chooses to conduct the upcoming elections will either strengthen or erode the
democratic institutions that protect religious freedom and other human rights.
Now, as
most of you probably know, Bangladesh has a unique system of installing a
non-partisan caretaker government for the three-month period before national
elections, and that three-month period is about to begin.Our discussion today, therefore, presents a
timely opportunity to focus on the issues involved in supporting Bangladesh's
efforts to hold an election that is free, fair, and peaceful.This afternoon's program is divided into
three segments.First, Commissioners
Cromartie and Bansal will speak.Commissioner Michael Cromartie
will address the Commission's recommendation relating to the upcoming
elections.Commissioner Bansal will
summarize the Commission's other recommendations for advancing human rights in Bangladesh and U.S. policy.
Then
secondly, we will hear from our panel of distinguished speakers who I shall now
introduce.First, Ambassador Tariq
Karim, who is a former ambassador of Bangladesh
to the United States and a
former ambassador to a number of other prominent countries in the region, and
currently a Harrison Fellow in the Department of Government and Politics at the
University of Maryland.His biography and his positions are
extensive.
Now, that
was my cell phone ringing. (Laughter.)But it reminds me to ask all of you to do what I'm going to do right
now, which is to please turn off your cell phones if you have them, and any other
electronic devices that make this kind of noise.So thank you for doing that.
Now, I was
introducing the ambassador.And we're
very grateful to him for coming.He's
going to comment on the Policy Focus and offer remarks after the two Commissioners.
He will be followed by Selig
Harrison, who is sitting next to me as well.Mr. Harrison, whose op-ed you may have seen in the Washington Post last
month, is director of the Asia Program at the Center for International Policy,
and he's a senior scholar at the Woodrow
Wilson International
Center for Scholars here in Washington.He has predicted so many things that have
gone wrong in the world, in that region, over the last 20 or 30 years.I can't list them all but he does remind us
that his predictions have even caused people in this cynical town to refer to
him as a prophet.I'm not saying that
they follow his predictions, but after the fact, people have noted the saliency
of his remarks and analysis.
The third
speaker will be Ms. Cynthia Bunton, who is the regional program director for
Asia at the International Republican Institute and also has a distinguished
profile and, I gather, quite a vocation as a singer as well, so I thank you for
joining us.
And
finally, our final speaker will be Patrick Merloe, who's sitting here on the
panel with me as well.Patrick is senior
associate and director for Programs on Election Processes at the National
Democratic Institute for International Affairs.The latter two speakers have considerable involvement with regards to America's
funding and programming dealing with elections and dealing with the assistance
of two parties and to enable them to compete in free and open and democratic
elections.And we think that this will
be an important addition to our discussion here.
Now, after
everybody speaks and the speakers will each - other than the two Commissioners,
the other speakers will speak for about 10 minutes each. The discussion will be
open to the reaction and comments of guests seated around the table, whom I'm
now asking to please identify yourself before you speak and your organizational
affiliation when I recognize you during the discussion.
And
finally, let me ask the members of the audience to refrain in the course of the
discussion from applause or other interruptions.We know that emotions run high on these
subjects but we request, please, if you could hold those until after the
program.Now, without further ado, I
turn the floor over to Commissioner Cromartie, who is a former chair of the Commission
and was chair of the Commission when we visited Bangladesh.Thank you.
MICHAEL
CROMARTIE: Thank you.Thank you for
coming.As Felice said, I'm Michael Cromartie.I was privileged to be the chair of the Commission when we visited Bangladesh.On our visit, among my fellow Commissioners,
I heard a lot of concern regarding Bangladesh's next national
elections. These concerns were raised in part on what happened during and after
Bangladesh's last election
in October 2001, where there was intimidation and violence toward religious
minority groups, particularly Hindus, because of their perceived political
alliance to one of Bangladesh's
two major parties.They were victims of
violence and intimidation
In addition
to human rights activists, minority group advocates expressed concern to us
about repetition of this violence in the next national election, which as you
know will be in January 2007.They also
voiced serious concerns to our delegation that the current process of voter
registration was being manipulated to disenfranchise many minority voters.Within the last few days, the Commission has
received new reports that many eligible voters, particularly members of
minority religious and ethnic groups, have not been registered.
It is
argued that action must now be taken to address these well-founded
concerns.To do otherwise will risk
undermining the credibility of the democratic process in Bangladesh and
will weaken political institutions and values that have been developed with
such great effort by the Bangladeshi people.
The Commission
believes that urgent measures are needed to safeguard the democratic
process.The Commission's new Policy Focus
on Bangladesh
that you have on your chairs in front of you details our recommendations in
this regard.Specifically regarding
elections, the Commission recommends that the U.S.
government urge the government in Bangladesh to safeguard voting rights
of all Bangladeshis and ensure that the elections are free, that they are fair,
and that they are peaceful.
And they do
so by doing the following:Number one,
they should restore public confidence in the nonpartisan and independent
character of both the Election Commission and the caretaker government.Number two, by preventing violence before and
after the election, including violence against religious minorities.Number three, instituting a voter
registration process that will facilitate the enrollment of the maximum number
of eligible voters in a manner that does not discriminate on the basis of
perceived religious or political affiliation or ethnic background.Number four, using all practical technical
means of ensuring the security of the ballot.And then number five, permitting and facilitating international and
domestic monitoring of the entire electoral process.
Furthermore,
the Commission calls on the government of the United States to prepare and
publicize a comprehensive pre- and post-election analysis of the election process
with recommendations for needed reform.Also, provide official U.S.
government monitors in addition to those already planned by the International Republican
Institute and the National Democratic Institute for International affairs, both
of which, by the way, are represented here today.
And
finally, we call on the U.S.
government to work with other interested states and international organizations
to increase monitoring and other efforts to forestall election violence with
the assistance of indigenous human rights and other civil society
organizations.Thank you.
MS.
GAER:Thank you very much, Michael.And now we turn to Commissioner Bansal.
MS. BANSAL:Thank you.I'm Preeta Bansal.I'm the other Commissioner
on the Commission and also a former chair of the Commission.
I want to reiterate one of the
comments that Commissioner Gaer mentioned in her remarks at the outset.And that's that Bangladesh is in many ways a very
well-functioning democracy with a representative government chosen by the
people with periodic elections that have allowed the peaceful changes of power.
Bangladesh has
a very vibrant civil society and a vigorous press.We met outstanding representatives of both
civil society and the press during our visit.We also met with government officials whose commitment to democracy and
human rights seems very real.
With that
said, we are very concerned about three separate areas of concern within Bangladesh.One is the growing societal violence against
religious and ethnic minorities and the government's insufficient response to
these acts of violence.Second is the
growing Islamicization within the government of Bangladesh and the growing
Islamicization of Bangladeshi society.So let me just briefly touch on each of them and address some of our
recommendations in that regard.
First, in
regards to societal violence, as radical Islamic influence is growing in
politics, the economy, and the society, there's been a trend toward greater
intolerance and violence toward religious minorities, especially Hindus, Ahmadis,
and Christians.As previously mentioned,
the Commission is concerned about attacks on politicians, journalists, and
scholars who oppose extremist interpretations of Islam as well as members of
religious minorities and NGOs [nongovernmental organizations] that empower
women.
Many of you know that the Hindu
population in Bangladesh
has severely declined in the last several decades and that the Christian
population also is eroding rapidly.Courts and judges have been targeted in bombings linked to extremist calls
for the imposition of Islamic Sharia law.Islamic extremists have also engaged in violent agitation against the
small Ahmadi community with the avowed aim of pressuring the government to declare
Ahmadis to be non-Muslims, as has already occurred in Pakistan.
In addition
to this anti-minority violence, non-Muslims in Bangladesh face societal discrimination
and are disadvantaged in access to government jobs, public services, and the
legal system.During the past year, the
government has acted more vigorously against violent extremists and has had a
number of notable arrests including militant leaders and successful prosecutions
of some of those found guilty and being sentenced to death.Yet much more in this area needs to be
done.
Secondly,
in terms of the growing Islamicization of government, we met with a number of government
officials who talked about the need to engage the more extremist elements in
society and bring them into the government.And in many ways our experience in Bangladesh was - it seemed to us that
Bangladesh was probably the window on some of the issues facing the region as a
whole, which is whether to engage with extremists and bring them into
government or whether to leave them on the outside.
Our concern
with the growing Islamicization of the government is that when brought in, they
actually have the potential to use the government apparatus to further goals
outside of the government's defined goals.
In this connection I just want to
mention an anecdote.We met the minister
- the Jamaat-e-Islami minister when we met with the Ministry [of Industry].We asked him what his interpretation of jihad
was.And oftentimes it's interesting
because when we ask that question we often get an answer, well, it's not really
about violence; it's about an internal struggle.And we were expecting something along those
lines.Instead he told us that it meant,
basically, using the peaceful means of government, including democracy, to
bring about an Islamic world - you know, to bring about an Islamist state.So it was very much using democracy in order
to have total control, and I think he used the terms "total control." So we're concerned about that, that by
bringing the extremists into government, the effect that that might have on
their ability to be influential.
And that leads to the third concern
we had, which is the growing Islamicization of society.Some of the concerns we've heard were that,
increasingly, certain key public functions such as education are now being
handled not necessarily through government and public education, but through
Islamic charities and religious-based charity, and that has potential - and
reopened the possibility of growing Islamicization in those sections as
well.
So to
address these issues, the Commission recommends that urgent measures be taken
to protect those threatened by religious extremism.To this end, we have urged the United States government to urge the government
of Bangladesh
to investigate and prosecute, to the fullest extent possible, perpetrators of
violent acts against members of minority religious communities, against
non-governmental organizations that promote women's rights, and against all of
those who oppose religious extremism - so to investigate and prosecute
violence.Secondly, to rescind its
January 2004 order banning publications by the Ahmadi religious community and
to continue to reject demands to declare Ahmadis to be non-Muslims.Third, to protect women from vigilante or anti-minority
violence and combat claims of religious justification for violence against
women.Fourth, repeal discriminatory
legislation that has been used unjustly to seize Hindu-owned property.And finally - fifth I should say, to protect
NGOs in the conduct of legitimate humanitarian and developmental
activities.
Those are just a few of our
recommendations.There's a more detailed
list in the Policy Focus.We also
address in the Policy Focus recommendations concerning promoting minority
access to public employment and making government jobs more accessible to
members of religious communities.And we
also address issues concerning public funding for religious groups and some of
the charities that we talked about.
MS. GAER:Thank you very much.We now turn to Ambassador Tariq Karim.Ambassador, thank you so much for joining us.
AMBASSADOR TARIQ KARIM:Thank you, Madam Chair.Madam Chair, Ms. Felice Gaer, honorable Commissioners,
distinguished fellow panelists, ladies and gentlemen, I'm pleased to be here
this afternoon to share some of my thoughts with you on the forthcoming
elections in Bangladesh.I thank you, Madam Chair and the USCIRF for
inviting me and offering me the privilege to address today's forum.
I also congratulate you on your Policy
Focus report on Bangladesh
and the plight of its minorities that has just been released.The document is commendably comprehensive and
insightful.It does give a detailed
picture of the situation as was gleaned by you, Madame Chair, and your delegation
to Bangladesh
recently.The report introduces some
very useful recommendations, which I do hope all concerned will consider
seriously.
At the onset I must - and indeed all
of us must acknowledge that despite widespread, gloomy prognosis, all is not
rotten in the state of Bangladesh.The conferment of the Nobel Peace Price to
Dr. Yunus, the banker to the poor of the world, is an affirmative to this fact
and a matter for pride to all Bangladeshis at home and abroad.
Indeed, Bangladesh's various
shortcomings notwithstanding, there are many good things in Bangladesh as well,
as indeed your report acknowledges in its preface, which hold potential promise
of better things to come in the future if they are addressed meaningfully - and
my emphasis is on "if" - by the people of Bangladesh and its leaders.However, for a country that is in democratic transition
and struggling hard to eradicate rampant poverty among its teeming millions,
unless the challenges that it faces today are indeed looked squarely in the eye
and addressed boldly and imaginatively, Bangladesh risks losing whatever it
has worked so hard to achieve to date.
Given the challenges of the development
and consolidation of its democracy that the country faces today, domestically,
regionally, and globally, this is not a time for Bangladeshis today to try to
cocoon themselves in a state of denial.
Considered as a possible role model
for developing Muslim nations, Bangladesh's
image as a secular and democratic Muslim country has been assailed in recent
years by a resurgence of Islamist militancy, which I view as an aberration,
given its legacy of tolerance, inclusiveness, and moderation.This has raised worrisome concerns about the
future of this largely poor developing country that bridges South and Southeast Asia.
When Bangladesh emerged as a
sovereign and free country in 1971, it could rightfully lay claim to being the
most homogenous nation state in the South Asian region, with 98 percent of its
people being ethnic Bengali, speaking the same language; with over 88 percent
of them being Sunni Muslims; and over 10 percent Hindus; and the remaining
comprising Christians, Hindus and followers of tribal faiths aspiring to
coexist peacefully.
Despite this legacy of ethnic and
even largely sectarian homogeneity, Bangladesh is today a deeply
divided and polarized society, with the present political contestation pitting Bengalis
against Bengalis.This contestation has
been described by some observers within Bangladesh, hyperbolically I think,
as verging on a state of civil war.The
contestation will have an important bearing on the next elections in 2007
January.
I see this contestation as a
struggle for the heart and soul of Bangladesh and how it defines
itself.It is being played out on at
least two levels.At one level is the
struggle for defining its cultural identity:Are its people primarily Bengalis or primarily Muslims?At the second level, the contestation
reflects the challenges being faced by the broad spectrum of its Sufi Islamic
legacy by the creeping inroads and onslaughts on that tradition by the Wahhabi/Salafi/Deobandi
interpretation of Islam. The first is
exacerbated by the second.
Indeed, the history of
post-independent Bangladesh,
since 1975, in my humble view, is the story of these two levels of contestation
being played out in the social and political metrics of the country.A dispassionate perusal of that history reads
that the space for the creeping annexation of the moderate middle grounds by
the increasingly radical forces of political Islam of various varieties was
opened up increasingly, either deliberately or without understanding the
long-term consequences, by the successive military or quasi-military regimes
that ruled Bangladesh
for the next 15 years.
Having said that, I must reaffirm
that Bangladeshi Muslims are precisely that. They are Bengali and they are
Muslims.These two aspects of their
identity do not necessarily have to be in conflict.The conflict has been deliberately provoked
and stoked by factors I consider extraneous to the culture.
Right now there are several major
issues that have stirred vociferous public debate and galvanize civil society
into action.The 14-party alliance
headed by the Awami League has stated categorically that it will contest the
polls if its demands are not met.And
briefly capitulating the major points:the
reform of the caretaker government; the revamping of the Election Commission
and the resignation or replacement of the chief election commissioner and his commissioners;
that the minister of defense should be under the head of the neutral caretaker
government rather than under the president; and rescinding the powers of the
magistracy, which in 2001 was given to non-civilians as well as to law
enforcement.
What are the implications for
stability and security?Accompanying the
incidence of Islamist militantism, unfortunately, has also been a spate of
criminal lawlessness that include kidnapping, attacks on journalists, political
vendettas, and mafia-style protection tactics.The failure of successive administrations in meaningfully tackling this phenomenon
has served to reduce respectful rule of law from the justice system in society
in general.This phenomenon actually
serves to strengthen the hands of Islamists, who variously look upon the
existing structure as weak or lacking weight, or use it to assert that the
secular system needs to be replaced by Sharia law. Any promise of utopia will find appeal amongst
people who despair of getting law and order and justice in society from the
existing order of things.The resulting
contestation can only be conducive to more instability.
There are media reports from Bangladesh during
the last few days - suggesting that these forces actually appear to be regrouping
and reconsolidating by enlisting large numbers of fresh recruits to serve as cannon
fodder in the war against the state.
A critically important fact worth
noting here is this: Bangladesh is the fourth-largest concentration
of Muslims in any single place in the world after Indonesia,
Pakistan, India, in that order.If Bangladesh
were to follow on the same route of militant Islamization as is evidenced in
its proximal vicinity in the region, the Muslims in India will not escape being
influenced by this two-pronged process and it will have repercussions and bearing
and fallout on the plight of religious minorities in the country.
The next general elections may therefore
well mark a new defining phase in the democratic transition of Bangladesh, determining
whether the country will stay its course on further consolidating democracy and
its secular tradition with governance of all faiths, or whether it will be
sucked further into a vortex of increasing authoritarianism and religious intolerance.
What Bangladesh needs to address now:Firstly, the elections must be held freely,
fairly, and peacefully.Obviously, that
is the foremost order of the day.Bangladeshis, obviously, will have to resolve primarily themselves
through a dialogue for achieving the broad consensus on the issues that divide
them now.Without such a reaffirmation
of the social contract, so to speak, the future of the democratic transition in
Bangladesh
is bound to be murky at best, with accompanied political violence and resultant
social turmoil.
The two main protagonists, the BNP
and the Awami League, are currently engaged in a dialogue to resolve these
issues.There are some indications that
they are on the verge of reaching a consensus.Friends of Bangladesh
need to remain proactively engaged with Bangladesh in order to encourage
and help the leaders of all parties to arrive at such a consensus.
The following would perhaps be the
most important priorities to be established prior to the elections: the
neutrality of the caretaker government.All sections of society must perceive the neutrality of this body as
being palpably self-evident as a fair and trustworthy umpire in the political
electoral match ahead.I might add here
that the heads of the first two neutral caretaker governments by and large were
persons who commanded respect and placed the interests of the nation above
parties' interests.However, the jury
came in with a strict verdict on the third national caretaker government.That situation needs to be avoided at all costs
in the forthcoming elections.
While it would perhaps be unfair to
prejudge the person now set to take over as head of the fourth NCG [national
caretaker government] - that's Justice KM Hasan, who is an honorable person - as
being innately partisan, the fact that he has become the center of such an
unseemly controversy would behoove him to peacefully and voluntarily offer to
step aside and recuse himself, which indeed he has done when facing a
controversial case while sitting in judgment on it.
The second element would be
restoring the credibility of the Election Commission.It is increasingly evident that the Election
Commission, as constituted at present, enjoys zero credibility.To be able to perform its functions and
duties as enjoined by the constitution, its credibility needs to be restored,
particularly in the eyes of the voters who are going to cast their votes.
And the third thing, which perhaps
is a precursor to this, the secretariat of the Election Commission must be
detached completely from the stewardship of the prime minister's office now and
forever to ensure complete independence of the party.Then, and only then, will it be largely
perceived by society as a whole as being transparently independent and neutral.
The USCIRF's report on this has
listed a number of measures as being necessary for ensuring that the next
elections are held freely and fairly and that no segment of Bangladesh's eligible
electorate, particularly its sizeable minority communities, are disenfranchised
on account of their faith or gender, either in the process of pre-election
registration or during the process of casting their votes on election day.Those are all commendable recommendations and
should be taken seriously and acted upon with good faith.
As additional measures - and I wind
up my remarks now - I would recommend the following:The base of election observers, domestic and
international, should be significantly broadened and enlarged this time so that
observers may meaningfully monitor a larger sweep of electoral territory.Secondly, election observers should do their
homework in advance of identifying those electoral districts that are
particularly vulnerable in respect of minority representation and focus their
attention more closely on those constituencies.And thirdly, additional resources, in terms of funds, manpower, and
technical equipment should be allocated for closely monitoring those areas
identified as vulnerable areas with means of instantaneous feedback.
Whether Bangladeshis, together, on
their own, will be able to address the above issues and resolve the current
crisis or not will also largely determine whether Bangladesh will have come of
age in its transition to a viable democracy or not.If the two mainstream parties do not act
maturely now and instead plunge the nation into crisis, then neither of them
nor the people of Bangladesh
will be the winners.
Their inability to arrive at a
consensus on the rules of the game that they should play by will plunge the
country on the course to instability and turmoil and result in further vacation
of the middle grounds.Such further
vacation of the middle grounds will only translate into the further annexation
by extremist forces to the detriment of Bangladesh, its neighbors, and
indeed to the world.
I thank you, Madam Chair.
MS.
GAER:I thank you and I welcome the
remarks of Mr. Harrison.
SELIG HARRISON:Thank
you very much, Madame Chairman, and I'd like to begin by echoing some of the
things said in that excellent address by Ambassador Karim.
I, too,
would like to congratulate the Commission on this excellent document, the Policy
Focus, that you have with you.And I'd
like to agree with Ambassador Karim that it's important, when one's talking
about these difficult issues that we're talking about today, to bear in mind
how many good things have been happening in Bangladesh and how much
constructive leadership there has been, both at the civil-society level and in
the government.I was extremely pleased
when the Nobel Prize was given to Muhammad Yunus.
I'm going
to add to the introduction about my relevance to this occasion by pointing out
that in addition to what I'm doing now, I have been in the past a foreign
correspondent and I had the pleasure of covering what is now Bangladesh before
it was Bangladesh, going back to the early 1950s, first for the Associated
Press; later for the Washington Post.So
I first started going to Bangladesh
as a journalist in 1951, when it was still East Pakistan,
and I have been going there ever since.
I used to
think I knew something about it.(Laughter.)When Islamic
extremism developed in Pakistan,
I was confident that it would not ever spread to Bangladesh.I assumed that the Sufi type of Islam that has
existed for so long in Bengal was incompatible with fundamentalist ideologies
that were being spread in Afghanistan
and Pakistan with the help
of oil money from the Middle East and the Persian Gulf, beginning, as you know,
during the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan.But I underestimated three factors.
First, I underestimated what all
that oil money could do to build organizational networks where there are
millions of unemployed searching for meaning in their lives.Second, I underestimated what unprincipled
opportunists in the Bangladesh
political arena and in the bureaucracy and in the police would do to profit
from alliances with the rising Islamic groups as that oil money started to pour
in.And third, I underestimated what Pakistan and its intelligence agency, ISI, would
and could do to help build up the Islamic extremist groups in Bangladesh as part of its strategy of using Bangladesh to harass India.So now we do have Islamic extremism in Bangladesh.
For the past five years we've had a
government in Bangladesh
openly and unashamedly allied with the Jamaat-e-Islami in a coalition that has
pulled its punches in combating Islamic extremism and has now attempted to rig the
elections to be held on January 24th.A caretaker government will take over on
October 27th.It is supposed
to be neutral, but as Ambassador Karim asked, will it be?
The outgoing BNP government changed
the constitution to install its own choice as head of the caretaker government
and it has made a farce of the Election Commission that will run the elections.The Election Commission has refused to
publish the voter list, as in the past.But they have announced how many voters there will be, and it is truly
astonishing.The number they've
announced is 93 million.This exceeds,
by 13 million, the number of people in the country over the age of 18, based on
the number of 13-year-olds recorded in the last census in 2001 and the number
of people who have died since then.This
is according to the Bangladesh Bureau of Statistics.Thirteen million - that's a lot of ballot
stuffing, even by the standards of West Texas and Cook County
in earlier years.(Laughter.)The Supreme Court ruled that the list has to
be amended, but this has, as you know, so far has been ignored.
The United States government has not
said a word, that I've heard about this - if I'm wrong, please let me know - but
the National Democratic Institute mission - headed by former Senate Majority
Leader Tom Daschle - has spoken out clearly.I know we're going to hear from the NDI today, but I'd like to read to
you something that I was very pleased and interested to see in the report of
the mission.All of this is now a quote
from the report of the NDI mission.
"A voters list containing
two-thirds of the population strains credibility.The delegation was deeply concerned to hear
from a broad cross-section of parties, civil society, media, and independent
observers of the widespread lack of confidence in the Election Commission, and
specifically in the chief election commissioner.The delegation has identified a perception of
incompetence and bias as a serious problem that requires being addressed.In the absence of a strong, corrective and
urgent response, confidence in the chief election commissioner will continue to
deteriorate to the point that he should not continue his duties."
That's from the report of the
delegation of NDI going to Bangladesh.One of the members of that delegation was
Mike Moore, formerly the prime minister of New Zealand and formerly the head
of the World Trade Organization.Mike
Moore said in a press conference in Dhaka, quote,
"Alarm bells are ringing here, and there's the possibility of things going very
wrong during the elections.If things do
go badly, there are people in other parliaments who will take appropriate
action: sanctions, tariffs, garment exports.It's a political world.Confidence has to be built so there is no reason for the Awami League to
boycott the election."From Mike
Moore.
Now, that's tough talk.I wish we would hear that kind of talk from U.S.
officials.The U.S. ambassador, on July 14th, called
Bangladesh,
quote, "an exceptional, moderate Muslim state," unquote.It's true that on September 16th
the ambassador did try to get talks on election reforms going between the Awami
League and the BNP-Jamaat coalition.But
she did it in a way, a partisan way, it seems to me.She urged the Awami League to join in talks
with the BNP and the Jamaat-e-Islami - put the burden on the Awami League.As you know, the Awami League has objected to
sitting down with the Jamaat and wants the talks confined to the BNP.The ambassador seemed to be endorsing the BNP
position on the turns for the talks, whatever her intention, by addressing her
appeal only to the Awami League.She has
offered to mediate, or rather she has said the United States is ready to mediate between
the two parties, but now her objectivity has been called into question.
More active U.S.
intervention to save the situation is urgently needed.I think that the resignation of the election
commissioner, which the NDI commission talked about, should be backed by the
American Embassy.I think that the
suggestion by Ambassador Karim that Justice Hasan should step down and there
should be a new head of the caretaker government strikes me as a very important
one, which the U.S.
government should be behind.And I think
that placing the Ministry of Defense under the caretaker government, which I
think is in the NDI report, should be pressed by the U.S. government.
Increasingly, it's clear that some
units of the police in Bangladesh
are being politicized by the Jamaat so they can be used for partisan ends
during the election.Normal training
period for the police is 18 months, and all of a sudden we're learning about crash
courses of six months to train special police units for the elections, which
are being explained, I understand, by saying, well, we need more police.But it all looks rather suspicious, and the
past few weeks police personnel have been involved in attacks on Awami League
leaders on four occasions to break up election rallies.Saber Choudhury, a top Awami League leader,
was knocked unconscious.Mohammed Nasim,
a former minister, ended up with two broken bones in his left arm.
Now, as has been mentioned - and to
me as a former journalist, this is very important.I'm one who believes in the role that
journalists have to play in situations like this.Journalists in Bangladesh cannot write freely
about this whole situation, including just the fact of what Jamaat is doing and
what its activities are, without facing death threats or assassination attempts
or roughing up.The U.S.-based Committee
to Protect Journalists has published extensive dossiers documenting 68 death
threats, dozens of bombing attacks that have injured at least eight
journalists, as our chairman noted.Here
is what the committee said, quote, "We are alarmed by the growing pattern of intimidation
of journalists by Islamic groups in Bangladesh.As a result of its alliance with the Jamaat-e-Islami,
the government appears to lack the ability or will to protect journalists from
this new and grave threat."
And in conclusion, I think it's
important to place the topic we're talking about today, the rise of Islamic
extremist groups in Bangladesh,
in a larger regional, South Asian context.It's not just a threat to Bangladesh
and especially to the minorities in Bangladesh.It's also important to recognize that Pakistan works with the Jamaat and its
affiliated groups to harass India,
which has a 2,500-mile border with Bangladesh.Until recently, this was focused mainly on
supporting tribal separatist groups inside India.But in the past few years, there has been
increasing evidence that Islamic extremists inside India
have connections, orchestrated by Pakistan,
with groups in Bangladesh
and Nepal.And, as Ambassador Karim said, this isn't
just a question of what Pakistan
is doing.Just by the nature of the
situation, if you get an incremental growth of Islamic groups in Bangladesh, you're going to have a spillover in
various ways into surrounding parts of South Asia.So what we're talking about today is part of
a subcontinental South Asia problem, which is
in turn part of our global challenge in combating terrorism.
Thank you very much.
MS.
GAER:Thank you very much, Mr. Harrison.And we now turn to our two speakers, one from
the International Republican Institute and one from the National Democratic
Institute.First we'll ask Cynthia to
speak and then we'll ask Patrick.
CYNTHIA
BUNTON:Thank you.I would like to take this opportunity to
thank Commission Chair Gaer and the Commission on International Religious
Freedom for this opportunity to address you today.
IRI has
been working in Bangladesh
since 2003.In developing our program,
we determined that in a democracy, the five pillars of civil society - private
industry, NGOs, trade unions, media, and political parties - form a cohesive
matrix to influence government.Hence we
named our program the Five Estates.
In Bangladesh's
zero-sum political game, political parties focus strongly - some would say
almost exclusively - on electoral success, but appear to place far less value
and attention on meeting the needs of constituents and solving the critical
problems facing the country.Organizations such as IRI face significant challenges dealing with
political parties because party leaders seem unable or unwilling to alter the
status quo, while lower-level leaders are powerless to promote change.The ongoing stalemate between the two
principal parties, the Awami League and the Bangladesh Nationalist Party, leave
organizations such as IRI striving hard to find ways to bridge the gap between
voters and politicians to ensure the government is accountable to all of its
citizens.
To address
the issue of political accountability, IRI focuses its programming efforts on
the above-mentioned estates to particularly pressure political parties to be
more responsive, honest and diligent.IRI hopes by strengthening those groups, a more informed and active
citizenry will increasingly demand the political parties work for real and constant
change.
I want to very briefly talk about a
few of our programs that help to promote democracy and democratic reform, for
democratic institutions provide the best safeguard to all citizens of
Bangladesh, with regard to gender, religion, or political beliefs.
International and domestic interest
in Bangladesh
is naturally now focused on the upcoming parliamentary elections in January
2007.IRI believes in and supports
democratic development for, during, and beyond election day, and our
programming reflects that broad commitment.Bangladeshis are proud of their democracy and dedicated to maintaining
it.Participation in the elections is high.There is a growing sense among them, however,
that their elected representatives and political parties are not being
sufficiently responsive to the real needs and concerns of the Bangladeshi people.Public concern is also growing that the
electoral system may be subject to corruption.Public anger and disillusionment are unfortunately on the rise.
IRI has therefore undertaken a
multi-faceted program that seeks to provide a wide cross-section of Bangladeshi
citizens with the tools needed to accurately monitor the upcoming elections,
particularly in the weeks leading up to election day.
First, we conducted a train-the-trainer
session for domestic election monitoring organizations nationwide that began in
March of this year.Over the course of
this five-month program, IRI trained a total of 773 master trainers in 25
districts and six divisions.These master trainers are now busy training
other observers.In August, IRI began
training sessions for our election-observation partner, the National Election
Observation Committee, or JANIPOP- which flew teams of observers throughout the
country for 50 days prior to the election, on the election day itself, and
post-election.
IRI - (inaudible) - confidence and
trust that the political system can work effectively.For example, in 2005, together with that
group, IRI observed two significant elections: the Chittagong City Corporation mayoral
election and the (inaudible) parliamentary by-election.Both of these elections, deemed free and
fair, demonstrated people can express their will in the political setting, and,
particularly in the case of Chittagong, that opposition candidates can and do
win elections based on popular vote.
These success stories cannot,
however, overshadow concerns about the upcoming national election.There have already been an unacceptable
number of instances of inter- and intra-party violence and the political
rhetoric of both major parties has frequently been inflammatory.The process and the result of the recent
voter registration list update have been the cause of widespread controversy
that may erode confidence in the election.Moreover, the current government and the opposition remain at
loggerheads over such crucial questions as who will lead the country's central
election commission during the election period, and perhaps even more
important, over who will head the constitutionally prescribed caretaker
government that is scheduled to be seated this month.
Failure to reach
a consensus on these and other critical issues could very well derail the
election process and further drown the future of democracy in Bangladesh.To help provide the necessary monitoring in
2007 elections, IRI is working with JANIPOP and other election and human rights
organizations to improve the skills of long-term observers by training them to
shadow candidates through every stage of the election process, from the
campaign, to candidate registration, to the counting of ballots, and all the
while reporting all irregularities.IRI is
training these observers to proactively control and identify the instances of
electoral abuses, as well as election violence, particularly abuses targeted at
vulnerable and minority groups.In addition,
IRI will also directly sponsor 50 long-term observation teams, as well as
provide training and support for other teams supported by other organizations.
The
election-monitoring training focuses heavily on electoral rules and procedures,
including the full language of possible election manipulation and fraud: voter
registration, campaign finance, documentation and reporting, party polling, age
at registration, dispute resolution and adjudication procedures, crisis
management, and security issues including election-related violence.IRI produced a comprehensive manual
containing these and other election-related topics that were printed and
distributed to a wide range of domestic election observer organizations.
Believing that an uninformed media can
undermine confidence in the electoral system and exacerbate electoral violence,
our media program, funded with a grant from the U.S. Department of State,
educates journalists and editors on the electoral process and how that process
can be manipulated, as well as teaches basic journalism skills.Half of the training course covered the same
topics as those taught in our long-term observation course.The other half focused on topics such as
story corroboration, fact checking, investigative journalism, truthful photo
journalism, and other topics designed to reinforce the need for objective,
fact-based journalism.
Our program
has other components as well.We work to
educate youth to increase their understanding of and respect for the democratic
process and democratic institutions.Indeed,
approximately 10 million young Bangladeshis will go to the polls for the first
time in 2007.This program focuses on
youth advocacy councils, first-time voter quorums, and youth democracy fairs.We also work with females in the city
commissions, who although they won their seats, are being denied the authority
and funding to equally participate in development activities, thus preventing
them from serving their constituents on an equal footing with their male
counterparts.This occurred by a 2004
ruling by the high court, which decreed that female and male commissioners are
to share fully in all of their duties.We also work with the labor union and the business community to
encourage them to identify and advocate for those issues most important to
their constituents.
In
conclusion, Bangladesh
is at a point of political gridlock.It
can continue to follow the path of extreme politicization and deadlock, or it
can take the path of more constructive and inclusive political discourse and
more responsive government.The increase
in domestic violence, which the Commission's policy brief has accurately
described, is an indication that institutions of Bangladeshi democracy are weak.Weak democracies cannot provide the
confidence-building measures, such as political stability, respect for rule of
law, freedom of expression and religious belief.They're like the vanguard against
colonization and extremism.IRI and
other like-minded institutions will continue to work hard to help build that
confidence so that Bangladeshis of all ages, genders, religions, ethnic groups,
and political views can live the free, prosperous, and democratic life they so
richly deserve.
Thank you.
MS.
GAER:Thank you very much, and thank you
for staying within the time limits.I'm
particularly grateful to you and I hope that Patrick will be able to do the
same.
Patrick,
the floor is yours.
And if I may just say, for those of
you came in late, we did ask if you would just turn off cell phones or other
electronic devices please.Thank you.
PATRICK
MERLOE:The chair has a long history in
various kinds of human rights forums of reminding you to behave well, so this
is nothing new.
Thank you, Madame Chairman, and
distinguished members, former chairs of this Commission - thank you for this
opportunity to speak about the vital issues of protecting rights in this time
surrounding Bangladesh's upcoming elections.More importantly, thank you for calling this forum to offer exchange of
ideas in what is now a relatively early juncture in the lead-up to the
elections.It is an important time for
those of us in Washington who have an interest to take note.
Forgive me
for just taking one step backwards to broaden the picture a bit, and to remind
ourselves that the connection between promoting democracy and protecting human
rights is fundamental.This holds true
for achieving democratic elections as well as for achieving democratic governance
more broadly.And I don't have to quote
to anyone in this room, certainly not to members of this Commission, the text
of Article 21 from the Universal Declaration of Human Rights or Article 25 of
the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, but it's enough to
say that they have touched on democratic elections and for democratic
governance more broadly.
Those articles state that every
person in a country has the right to participate in governance and public
affairs of their country, either directly by holding governmental office or
indirectly by freely choosing representatives in genuine elections, elections
that, among other things, are by universal and equal suffrage.And at that, the center of that precept, is
often what I refer to as the nondiscrimination norm.That is to say that universal and equal
suffrage, both as it pertains to the right to stand for office and to the right
to vote, must be based, among other things, on the absence of discrimination
that is based upon race, color, gender, language, religion, political and other
thought.
Thus, the protection of the freedom
of thought, conscious and religion, as well as the protection of the rights of
religious and other minorities, are direct concerns, not just to Bangladesh, but
in every country when we address democratic development.There are a wide range of issues, and my
colleague from IRI touched upon them very well, that come into focus when we
approach this kind of analysis.
At the core of protecting rights,
including religious freedom, in the electoral context, is the issue of security
as a person.If violence undermines that
security, free choice is subverted and potentially negated.Violence directed at the populace, including
the electorate, based on gender, religion, national minority status, political
opinion, or other discriminatory basis, potentially negates the democratic
nature or potentials of elections and undermines the legitimacy of the
government.
So it's in this light that NDI
welcomes the Commission's Policy Focus paper on Bangladesh.The paper targets politically motivated
violence.It provides a depth of
analysis and a significant number of recommendations that are useful in approaching
the circumstances of Bangladesh.Some of those recommendations are beyond my
areas of expertise, but certainly those that touch directly on electoral issues
are highly constructive and useful, not just those addressed to the government
of the United States, but also to Bangladeshis and those of us in the broader
international community.
Last month, as has been already
noted, NDI sent a pre-election assessment delegation to Bangladesh.The delegation included a new member of NDI's
board of directors, former Senator Tom Daschle, and also the former prime minister
of New Zealand, Mike Moore; the former Minister of Women's and Veteran's
Affairs in Cambodia Mu Sochua, along with NDI staff.The delegation's report is appended to my
comments, and that is available, I believe, on the table outside, and certainly
on NDI's website along with our numerous other statements and reports on Bangladesh.
The delegation expressed NDI's
concern about the rampant and escalating politically motivated violence in Bangladesh.The delegation's recommendations highlighted
the urgent need to effectively address political violence.The delegation noted that it received reports
of intimidation and violence directed against women, religious minorities, and
ethnic minorities.And it emphasized
that such actions undermine the reputation of Bangladesh as a tolerant
society.The delegation noted that
political violence in Bangladesh
includes both inter-party and intra-party manifestations that subvert
democratic politics.There are
widespread complaints within the Bangladesh Nationalist Party (BNP) and the
Awami League that the nominations process and the elections are dominated by
what Bangladeshis call money and muscle.Politically influenced killings happen frequently within and between
these parties.To quote the delegation:"The responsibility for reducing violence
does not rest alone with the authorities.The leaders of the political parties themselves must exercise strong
party discipline over members," unquote.
The authorities, of course, must
act responsibly and in a politically neutral manner when it comes to dealing
with violence and the potential for it.Unfortunately, however, there have been many reports, which have been
noted here today, that the police have reacted violently and disproportionately
to political demonstrations.We even
have received reports that there have been mass detentions occurring before
opposition rallies and marches.As noted
by Ambassador Karim, it is important nonetheless to recognize that these
problems are not new in Bangladesh.
Former U.S. President Jimmy Carter,
Cambodian opposition leader Tioulong Samura, and I traveled to Bangladesh in a
pre-election delegation in August of 2001, principally to address the threat to
the election process posed by political violence.Our 2001 statement noted that, quote, "The
single largest obstacle to ensuring a democratic environment is the hostility
between the two major political parties that breeds politically motivated
disharmony and violence."Last month's
NDI delegation found that, quote, "The political climate of Bangladesh remains polarized,
marked by inherent difficulties brought on by the lack of communication and
cooperation among the parties and prone to both partisan and political
violence."
This stands in stark contrast to
the accomplishments of the Bangladeshi population, which has a longstanding
reputation for tolerance and political participation.The electorate, with large voter turnouts,
have alternated parties in government in each of the national elections since
the military dictatorship ended in 1991.Bangladeshis take justified pride in this.Nonetheless, whether the BNP or the Awami League
have been in government, they have not provided adequate opportunities or mechanisms
for the development of constructive opposition.At the same time, whenever either of these parties has been in
opposition, it has too often chosen destabilizing and polarizing tactics of
parliamentary boycotts, street demonstrations; in "hartals," general strikes,
backed up by muscle power to ensure that the population appears to go along
with the strikes and street actions.
These approaches to inter-party
conflicts are too often conducted at the expense of real-world needs of Bangladesh's
140 million people.The failure to
adequately improve the conditions of the population due to the deep effects of
corruption and the politics of confrontation creates a gulf between the
political parties and the population.That gulf can be exploited by extremists, as has been noted here today.
A recent factor pointed out in the Policy
Focus paper in this respect has emerged in Bangladesh.Beginning in the late 1990s, extremist groups
have carried out an escalating series of bomb attacks.These have included grenade attacks on the
Awami League rally that killed 24 people and injured Sheikh Hasina and other
top leaders of the party.The Commission's
policy paper notices the recent introduction of suicide bombings and the almost
simultaneous detonations by extremists around the country on August 17th,
2005 of over 450 bombs.We note that the
JMB has claimed responsibility for this and other attacks.
The point that I'd like to stress
is that the rising threat of terrorist groups makes the need for responsible
political conduct by the country's political leaders all the more urgent.This places an even greater pressure on the
process and the political environment surrounding the upcoming 2007 elections.The corresponding obligation to pursue the
broader national interest lies not just on the Awami League and the BNP, but on
all parties participating in the election process, including those that are
presently in the governing coalition, the partners of the BNP - that is,
Jamaat-e-Islami, Jatiya Party Naziur, and of course, Islami Okiya Jote.
NDI's pre-election delegation noted
significant problems and critical challenges to the integrity of Bangladesh's
election process.Many of them have been
noted this afternoon and I won't go into them in detail.It's enough to reiterate that the composition
of the caretaker government should be formed in accordance with constitutional
provisions and dialogue in consultation to ensure political impartiality and
effectiveness so that the public confidence that is requisite is present in the
caretaker government as it conducts its obligations.The Election Commission, as has been quoted
already about our delegation statement, suffers from a lack of credibility and
confidence, in particular the chief election commissioner.
Necessary steps to address the
perceptions and what may be the reality of bias or incompetence have to be
taken immediately in order to restore confidence in the election process as we
move towards the January elections.All
of the relevant actors must devise steps to curb rampant buyouts.The voter's list, which has been mentioned,
must be addressed.I won't go into
detail; it's already been described.But
there must be a variety of verification testings employed, and it must be open
for correction.Campaign conduct
including spending and many other aspects must be brought into compliance with
the law and international standards.There must be an impartial and effective electoral complaint mechanism
in place for the party to turn to it rather than violence and self-help.
Violations of the law, including
those of the past, must be prosecuted vigorously to break the impression of
impunity.Sufficient polling booths in
women's polling centers should be established to ensure a genuine opportunity
to vote and other obstacles to women's participation should be addressed, and
electoral transparency, including streamlined provisions for domestic and
international observers, and there should be more specific safeguards put in
place to ensure the accuracy and honesty of both counting and reporting.
I will close with a final quote from
last month's NDI delegation, "The delegation believes that it is important that
legitimate questions as to the fairness of the election process be fully
investigated, discussed, and resolved.At the same time, the elections should not be held hostage by the
intransigent positions held by either the government or any political party."Thank you.
MS. GAER:Thank you very much, Patrick.
Let me now describe the
format.We're now going to open the
program to discussion.And those of you
seated at the table are invited to raise questions.Unfortunately, Mr. Harrison has to leave at
4:30, so I'm going to ask those of you who have specific questions related to
his remarks or to the points he made to indicate so and I'll try to take one or
two or three quick questions and see if he can offer a response before leaving,
but then we'll open it more broadly than that.So the floor is now open.
Yes, Mr. Rao.And please identify yourself when you speak,
those of you around the table.
RAMESH RAO:Dr. Ramesh Rao, a member of the Hindu
American Foundation.First of all, I
would like to thank the speakers and Commissioners who have spoken so
perceptively, insightfully and sharply about the - (inaudible) -
population.And surely, as noted, it's not
just that South Asia has 90 percent-plus of
the world's Hindus, but, people forget, also 40 percent of the world's Muslims.
And therefore a mix - (inaudible) -
cooperation, but also problems that can become really huge.Given that, a quick question.Ambassador, in terms of the U.S. - (inaudible) - the embassy of Bangladesh, or - (inaudible) - Bangladesh, is there attempt to get
the twomajor parties to actually nominate
a particular person - (inaudible)?
MS. GAER:I'm going to come back to that question
because what I wanted to entertain was if there were any specific questions for
Mr. Harrison before he has to leave.His
presentation was a provocative and important one, and I'm sure you're all
trying to figure out - (inaudible), go ahead.
(Unidentified speaker): I actually thought it was a really wonderful
presentation, as were all of the ones that were here.I'm wondering - you mentioned the rise of
outside influences breeding terror.You
talked about the Pakistan-ISI connection.You talked about Wahhabism.In
your experience or study, what is the influence or what is the reach of these
kinds of external networks, whether it's the madrassas or - I'm wondering, how
is Wahhabism coming into Bangladesh?
MR. HARRISON:You know, it's difficult to be sure about
this.But there certainly is evidence
that - (inaudible) - which is a well-known terror organization in Saudi Arabia
has been typical of a number of such groups in the Gulf where you have many very
legitimate relationships with madrassas and charitable organizations in rival
Islamic countries that also use these legitimate relationships as a cover for
funneling money into doing things of the kind we've been talking about.I can't present a white paper to back this up
in the case of Bangladesh,
and I don't know how extensive, how many madrassas have been affected.It doesn't take very many numerically to be
significant as covers for the training of the jihadi cadres, as we have seen in
the case of Pakistan.And so I can't really present a white paper
on this, what kind of circumstantial evidence that money not only provided for charitable
ends has been diverted to other ends.
MS. GAER:Yes, Kumar?
T. KUMAR:Yes, Kumar from Amnesty International.Mr. Harrison, you touched on one aspect of
the problem, that being ISI of Pakistan.As you are aware, the - (inaudible) - Bangladesh
can be traced to the creation of Bangladesh
- India - (inaudible) - Pakistan
- (inaudible).My question to you is, were
you able to find any involvement of India in this, in any form of
activities, to stir up something there?Thanks.
MR. HARRSION:To stir up what?
MR. KUMAR:To stir up any kind of trouble there because
- (inaudible) - keeping quiet.
MR. HARRISON:In Bangladesh?
MR. KUMAR:In Bangladesh.
MR. HARRISON:I think they're spending most of their time
trying to find out what ISI is doing.
MR. GAER:Well, I'm going to thank Mr. Harrison.I know you have to leave.
MR. HARRISON:I really apologize for having to leave.Something quite unexpected involving the
nasty world of television journalism came up, unfortunately for me, and I have
to leave.
MR. GAER:Thank you.Well, I hope we'll have an opportunity, even in his absence, to raise
questions about what he said about U.S. policy.And I thought that part of the end of his
presentation about being critical of the ambassador and suggesting that she is
forcing one party to abandon its principles regarding not sitting down with the
Jamaat is something that I would welcome if there are others who would have any
information on that or thoughts on those points.Now, the ground rules for the meeting as I
outlined was that we will be asking members around the roundtable to pose
questions in this third segment of the discussion.
So the next person seeking the
floor is Ambassador De Pree.And please
identify yourself now that I've identified you.(Laughter.)
AMBASSADOR WILLARD DE PREE:Thank you very much.I want to commend the commission for what I
consider a balanced, sharply focused - (inaudible) - the nation, which if
carried out will contribute, I'm sure, to a fair, free, and hopefully
violence-free election.But I do have
one real question about one of the recommendations made by the Commission, and
it involves U.S.
policy.And let me read it.It's recommendation under Section 2."The Commission recommends that the U.S. government should urge the government of Bangladesh to
continue to reject extremists' demands to declare Ahmadis to be non-Muslims."
My feeling is that - I have no
problem with people taking that position; it's just that I don't think that the
United States
government should be in a position of stating who it considers to be a Muslim
or a non-Muslim.That, we should leave
to the Muslim community.I would think
for us to declare that the Ahmadis are bona fide Muslims may be fine, but it may
be counterproductive, and it's something that moreover I don't think the United
States government itself should play in trying to determine who is and who is
not a good Muslim.
I would like also to make one
observation too.I was impressed with
the report about the attention devoted to the process.When I was ambassador of Bangladesh more than
15 years ago, I was called in by the president of the time to alert the United
States to a concern that the Bangladeshis had that long ago to what was taking
place inside some of the madrassas, that they were proving to be spawning
grounds for people who engage in acts of terrorism.Fifteen years later, that's still very much
the case.I would just call the panel's
attention to - the commission's attention to - some wonderful work that's been
done by the State Department on foreign exchanges, working with Indonesia
addressing concerns about what was taking place in madrassas.So it's just something you might want to
pursue.
But I thought the report was
excellent, well-focused.I hope the United States
government will fully back the commission's recommendations.Thank you.
MS. GAER:Thank you, Ambassador.
I'm going to turn also back to Mr.
Rao's question, and we'll get an answer to that.I just want to comment to the point with
regard to the demands that Ahmadis be declared to be non-Muslims.
First of all, in looking at this,
the Commission looked very closely at what has been the tradition in Bangladesh, and
the reluctance of the government and others in the country to make such a
declaration.Secondly, the nature of
that accusation is such as it would create various distinctions and create
problems for such persons who constitute a substantial number of people who
live well and comfortably in the country until now.Third of all, it supports the position of the
UN Special Rapporteur on Freedom of Religion as well.And finally, the Commission was established
to put a special lens on issues of religious discrimination, and these are
issues that didn't necessarily always bubble to the top in U.S. policymaking in
the past, and we think they are important in order to prevent the violence,
discrimination, and measures that create severe abuses of human rights for any
member of the population.I don't know
if there are other points you might want to add to that, Commissioner Bansal.
MS. BANSAL:I just want to add a few sentences to that,
which is I don't think it is our position - our view is not that the United
States will declare who is a Muslim and who is not Muslim.The point, I think under international legal
standards of freedom of conscience, I believe, is that it's up to the individual
to identify how they choose to identify and not for another community to tell
them that they are something or they aren't in terms of their belief.It's their freedom of belief, and to focus on
the individual I think.
MS. GAER:Yeah, and Mr. Stahnke, you might want to add
to that?
MR. STAHNKE:Only to say that in this case it's not a
concern of the Commission how Muslims view the Ahmadis, but the Bangladesh
government.The government should not be
declaring one group to be Muslim or not.
AMBASSADOR DU PREE:You might want to look at the wording of the
Commission's recommendation.
MS. GAER:Well, we appreciate that, yeah.Thank you for that.
Now, I had promised Mr. Rao that we
would respond.And I'm going to ask you to
just repeat again the question that you had.
MR. RAO:The question is whether the two major parties,
BNP and Awami League, have allocated some portion of those seats for minorities,
because while we may talk about free elections and so on, if they have not
guaranteed some kind, some portion of those seats for minorities, that they may
not be acting really on - (inaudible).
MS. GAER:This is a complicated issue.You may recall a few years back the Commission
and many others were critical, for example, of Pakistan, which did have assigned
seats because the communities that were part of those assigned seats felt that
they were out of the game in terms of politics and nobody cared what they said
because they had assigned seats.Now, we
flip to another country in the region and you're raising the question from the
other perspective.
Mr. Merloe, you might want to
respond.
MR. MERLOE:In a way, you've given half of my response
for me.It's perfect.It's been about 15 years since NDI began its
work with Bangladeshi democratic reform.Of course, we've been on the ground constantly the past few years.So the society, working with the government
in all of the cities, working with parties, beyond, parliaments - and this
topic is one that has been addressed in a variety of fora.And the answer that I can give you is that we
- and I'm sure this is true for IRI and the others that have worked in the
European arena as well - having the dialogue about how to be inclusive within
each of the major parties, of religious minorities and to address their
concerns more broadly, is a critical part of party-building, emphasis placed on
dialogue.The government stands between
the parties and among them as well.The
particular formula that surrounds them as agreed to in any particular country
always has pluses and minuses.
And the chair addressed the problem
in Pakistan
where there were advantages in the early day in the Pakistani Constitution,
raised divisions that were proven to ossify and be somewhat hollow to the
Pakistani circumstances.So the real
issue - how does a party reach out, remove the barriers to participation and
leadership including women and religious and ethnic minorities, youth, and so
on.And how does the party address this
in this program manifesto, real policy issues that address their concerns and
needs?More than a rigid allocation of
quotas or something like that; and that's the position that we've taken in our
work in Bangladesh
and other countries.
MS. GAER:Thank you.
Mr. Masmoudi had a question, then
Dr. Benkin.
RADWAN MASMOUDI:Good afternoon.My name is Radwan Masmoudi.I am president of the Center for the Study of
Islam and Democracy.I have to admit
first of all that I am not an expert on Bangladesh, but I am an expert on Islam
and democracy, and we have done a lot of work on the subject of Islam and
democracy.And I am concerned by some of
the tone in this report that seems to be strained from Islam or be afraid of
Islamization or be afraid of Islamic movements in general.I'm really concerned about that because
secularism does not mean you're against other religions.Secularism does not mean you are minimizing
the role of tradition.And I think that
there is a big image problem for secularism in the Muslim world in general,
that it is portrayed as against religion, against Islam.
And my advice to all the secular
groups in Bangladesh
is it's important that they are not seen as irreligious or even less religious
than the other movements.The discussion
has to be about what kind of Islam; not whether you're for Islam or against
Islam.Because if the question is
whether you are for Islam or against Islam, the secondary groups have no
chance.They will lose elections no
matter what we say or what we do.So
what they have to fight for is what does Islam mean in the 21st
century?They have to take back
Islam.They have to speak in the name of
Islam.
And don't be afraid of these
Islamist movements or Islamization movements.Even - (inaudible) - that they have to contend and contest the
definition to figure out what does Sharia mean; what does interpretation of Sharia
mean?Even - (inaudible) - for
example.So I am really very -
(inaudible) - but you can be secular and religious at the same time.You can be deeply religious and secular at
the same time.
My second comment, or question, is
I'm surprised that very few people mentioned the problem of corruption in Bangladesh.I know very little about Bangladesh, but I know that Bangladesh has
been ranked number one in corruption for the last, you know, decade or
more.And - (inaudible) - is that that's
probably the number-one reason for the rising Islamic movement or the -
(inaudible) - Islam or whatever it is, is that people are tired of corruption,
which is basically what's happened in Palestine,
you know, when people voted for Hamas.The number-one reason was they were tired of corruption of the -
(inaudible) - groups that were stealing all of the money that was coming in
supposedly to help the Palestinians and was going into their private bank
accounts.
And then - (inaudible) - find a
solution to this corruption problem - (inaudible) - not have a really stable
democracy.
Thank you.
MS. GAER:Thank you very much.I think that was more on the order of a
comment than a question, but if anyone wants to comment on it substantively,
we'll have a final round on that.I saw
Dr. Benkin taking the floor.
DR. RICHARD BENKIN:Thank you.I'm Dr. Richard Benkin.I have no
affiliation.I'm not a journalist, I'm
not a government official, I'm a member of no NGO, and I took off work to come
here today.I'm here because I'm the
defender - no, excuse me, I'm a brother of Salah Uddin Shoaib Choudhury, who,
by the way, asked me just before I came in to please once again thank the Commission.Your visit to Bangladesh and your chat with him
meant so much that he's still - (inaudible).And as his brother, I too appreciate that so very much, as well as that
wonderful, excellent letter you sent recently to Richard Boucher.And you've done so much for this individual
right now, and so thank you so much.
Salah Uddin Shoaib Choudhury, for
those of you who don't know, is a Muslim journalist in Bangladesh who
is currently on trial possibly for his life.Why?Because in 2003 as a journalist
he warned his country about the rise of radical Islam.Why?Because he urged Bangladesh
to recognize Israel,
and in fact to travel there.And
why?Because he supports real
inter-faith dialogue, not the phony inter-faith dialogue that a lot of people
say they're having, but true inter-faith dialogue based on religious
equality.And for those reasons, the Bangladesh
government imprisoned him and tortured him.And for 17 months I struggled to free him, and finally, with the help of
Congressman Mark Kirk, we did get him out in April of 2005.
But the government has now decided
to try him for sedition.And that does
carry a death sentence.And certainly I
appreciate so much the erudition and knowledge of the people who spoke here
before.I could never come close to
that, but I might like to change perspective a little bit in terms of
recommendations.
My own experience with the Bangladesh government - which has unfortunately
been rather extensive, including their denying me entry three times in the last
six months - but my experience with the Bangladesh government is that we're
dealing with what can only be described as a culture of mendacity.I sat in a room when their ambassador to the United States stated two bald-faced lies to a U.S. congressman.I listened as their - (inaudible) - minister
has given empty assurances again and again, which were violated again and
again.
So for all the correctness - and I
do say this very respectfully and humbly - all the correctness of the
recommendations, I believe what needs to be added is what we might call teeth,
because I have no faith in the Bangladesh government's ability to be trusted to
carry out these recommendations.And we
have found that the only thing they will react to sometimes is teeth. And I have some recommendations for that.
But before I -
MS. GAER:Dr. Benkin, if you could get to your
recommendations so we can turn to others -
DR. BENKIN:Okay, the first recommendation - first
recommendation:The government said that
they were going to drop the charges against Salah Uddin Shoaib Choudhury but
were afraid to do it for fear of angering the radicals, and so it went through
a convoluted process, but in the end - in the end we're thwarted by the actions
of a JMB [Jamaatul Mujahideen Bangladesh], a radical Islamist judge.
Yesterday the Bangladesh Minority
Lawyers' Association filed suit with the high court to disqualify judges who
were affiliated with radical groups like the JMB, and I think a strong message
that says, we expect the Bangladesh
government to see that that suit is given a fair hearing, is one important
thing.
I think another indication of their
veracity would be to demand that they drop these false sedition charges, which
they have said are false, against Salah Uddin Shoaib Choudhury.And in fact, I do not see the teeth coming
from, unfortunately, from the State Department or from our embassy, which we
now - now information is telling us some of the locals they use have ties to
some of these radical groups like the JMB, but in fact, the teeth are probably
going to have to come from Congress, whether it's appropriations or some other
form.I believe that the recommendations
should in fact have some language involving those items.
Thank you.
MS. GAER:Thank you very much.
Do we have anybody who wants to
comment from the congressional perspective around the table, or do we have
other questions?
Ms. Martin?Could you just for everybody identify
yourself?
ANDREA MARTIN:Andrea Martin with Rep. Emanuel Cleaver of Kansas City.I've been listening to try to identify the
markings for this escalation of violence that there seems to be consensus on,
and I haven't heard a clear - (inaudible).If I could get your - (inaudible).
MS. GAER:I'm wondering, Ambassador, if you might want
to take that question.That's a tough
one.
AMB. KARIM:If you're asking about the reason for the
escalation of violence, I think certain speakers have said that this election
is looked upon as a zero-sum game by the - (inaudible) - activists.Each party has a lot to do with -
(inaudible).And despite what the high
command in the party wants - (inaudible).
I mentioned in my own talk that
there are - there's rampant crime - mafia-like activities and others - and they
take advantage of the situation, just as parties also take advantage of some of
these unsavory organizations - (inaudible).Sometimes they're at the local level; sometimes they - (inaudible) -
level.
The violence usually is feared at
every election, and there is sporadic violence, but the last three elections
have been, thankfully, marked by an absence of any remarkable degree of
violence.However, it is feared that
given the sharp polarization in the divisions that now exist, and the zero-sum
view - zero-sum paradigm in which it is viewed, this violence might become
uncontainable if a consensus is not reached among the parties to resolve the
issues.
MS. GAER:Thank you.Kumar, and then I'm going to open the floor to the hands I see around
the room.
Yes, sir?
MR. KUMAR:Coming back to the - (inaudible) - mentioned
here - (inaudible) - election, what should be done after the polls have been
cast and - (inaudible).The last
election - (inaudible) - after the election a particular group was -
(inaudible) - or what steps should be taken to prevent that from happening this
time?That's my main question.It's a very difficult situation because after
the election - (inaudible).So any
particular ideas that can come out to - (inaudible).
MS. GAER:I'll take advantage of the power of the chair
to point out - and I believe Mr. Harrison referred to it - that in the Commission's
recommendations under item one, "urgent measures to prevent anti-minority
violence in the upcoming elections," our second or third bullet point proposes
the following: "to make every effort to prevent violence before and after the
election, including ensuring that the caretaker government is provided with
authority over the Ministry of Defense and the power to instruct law
enforcement bodies to ensure the security of all Bangladeshi citizens
throughout the voting process."
If there is that authority, then
one can at least prevent the worst violence, or at least instruct that people
not stand idly by or actively participate in the violence.The evidence from the 2001 elections
unfortunately does not give a great deal of confidence, and there was no real
inquiry into the perpetrators of it.Perhaps had there been, or if there still were - there really isn't time
for that - those measures could have been - the real problem spots could have
been identified publicly for everyone to see.That hasn't happened.Something
has to be done now that's proactive and protected.And I wonder, Cynthia, if you might want to
comment on that because I see you're nodding vigorously.
MS. BUNTON:Oh, I agree.I definitively agree.And for
what it's worth - and I know that my colleagues at NDI and others have looked
at it and will continue to look at the results of the 2001 elections.And I think, you know, of course we are the
panacea for all things, but I think the fact that we are all going to be
particularly present in those communities may help.I mean, I think because the public eye is on
a lot of these regions, it might help.It won't prevent all violence, but I think it might do something to
help.
MS. GAER:Now, we have here with us at the table Brian
Joseph from the National Endowment for Democracy.We have the National Democratic and
International Republican Institutes here speaking, so Mr. Joseph has asked for
the floor on this point and I'd like to give it to him, to be followed by Ms.
Hossain.
BRIAN JOSEPH:Thank you very much.I'm Brian Joseph from the National Endowment
for Democracy.I wanted to ask you a
question - much of the writing, both from the Commission and others, including
Mr. Harrison's piece in the [Washington]
Post, touched upon the junior partners in the BNP government.One of the Commissioners early on mentioned
whether you try to keep bringing extremists into government to moderate the
behavior or whether you try to keep them on the outside.The question for the panelists is, in the Bangladesh
context, where do you draw the line between these parties that should be
allowed to participate in the democratic political process and what are the
markers of the key parties out of the political process?
And the second question for the Commission
- and Preeta Bansal raised the question - was how do you effectively exclude
somebody from participating in politics in Bangladesh?
MS. GAER:Before Ms. Bansal takes the floor, I'd just
like to suggest that in a whole variety of situations, demanding that a party,
first of all, eschew violence is usually the first step in terms of electoral
politics:Play by the rules of the game,
the rules of the constitution and eschew violence as a means of either exerting
influence or settling disputes.That's
usually number one.
Number two should be - and the Commission
has taken this position in other situations - number two should be respect for
the basic human rights of religious minorities, other minorities, men and
women, as well as the basic human rights necessary to conduct elections, which
are things like freedom of expression, freedom of association, and respect for
the rule of law.
That's just the beginning, but I
think if you set those out there you will eliminate a certain number of parties
right off the bat.And I think those are
minimal conditions.
Ms. Bansal, did you want to
comment?
MS. BANSAL:I think it's not so much a question - I mean,
our concern is not with excluding people from the political process, by any
means; it's with ensuring that they agree and abide by international legal
standards and human rights instruments.And the concern is not with - the concern is the policies that result
and what policies seem to come about within certain governments.And the question I raised was more a question
and not a statement.It's do we - you
know, with the growing Islamicization of the Bangladeshi government - we heard
about that; we didn't really articulate it fully in our brief remarks but we
heard about it in many different respects - what are the ways in which to deal
with the policies that result from that?And there I'm talking about like increasing education through private
madrassas rather than public education, and other ways like that.
So it is addressing the policies
and not the actors.
MS. GAER:Ms. Hossain, and if you'd identify yourself
for everyone.
MANEEZA HOSSAIN:Maneeza Hossain with the Hudson Institute.You know, I think there is a lot of
appreciation in Bangladesh
for the gravity of the situation that we're dealing with.I was just wondering if the Commission, by
any chance, got to look into the army's role - what role the army would be
playing this year in the elections.And
that the Islamization - to what extent it influences the army in Bangladesh.
MS. GAER:I think the short answer is we did not,
although you heard today from some of our panelists the concern that some of
the key members of the military have been associated with or supportive of some
of the extremist parties, or they claim that that is the case.But the Commission itself did not examine
that issue.Thank you.
And then Ms. Choudhury, and then
I'm going to open it up to the - I saw other hands but I haven't been seeing
them lately.
MS. GAER:Oh, I'm sorry, and Mr. Merloe.You can speak right now.
MR. MERLOE:I want to go back to Brian's question, and I
think it relates to Mr. Masmoudi's question as well, really, and deserves a
little bit more teasing out, at the risk of being controversial.
On the one hand, I fully agree with
the chair, who has a longer standing in the international rights community than
I have in my years prior to NDI.
The basic threshold for the renunciation
of violence and the embracing of respect for the rights of others and to engage
in a political, pluralist competition are touchstones for the legal recognition
of political parties.If we take this
into Bangladesh,
however, the junior parties in the government coalition meet that threshold
just as well as do the two major traditional political parties.The problem becomes one of implementation -
what do you actually do on the ground?And a big problem in Bangladesh,
however, is that both the BNP as well as the Awami League are guilty of using
violence internally for internal party struggles as well as against one another
and against other parties in the population.
And part of the problem that exists
in Bangladesh
is the lack of confidence of the population in the two major parties as a
consequence.Another part of the problem
is, as Mr. Masmoudi alluded, the deep impact of corruption in this country, the
failure of these parties to address the real-world concerns of the 140 million
Bangladeshis, as I said earlier, which leads to the kind of alienation between
the political elite and their organized party forums.And Bangladesh, as it does in Latin America
and other places - Bangladesh is not unique in this respect - does nonetheless
create the breeding ground for which people turn to other answers, including
political extremism.Political extremism
20 years ago we would discuss in a Marxist or other version.Today we're discussing it in the version of
politicized Islam and extremism - (inaudible) - what we are now calling
terrorism - (inaudible).
So it's a very complicated process,
and I do believe, and I think that I should say, that it's important to engage
with those Islamist parties that embrace pluralism, democratic processes, and
are willing to work within these political and electoral contexts to work with
what NDI has said over and over again - (inaudible) - and others, the middle
ground to try to build that, and it's a murky area.We can't be naïve.Move to another country, in Yemen - to talk about the parties in Yemen for
example, there are those who are within them have extreme elements that are
participating in the electoral process.This leads to an interesting question about how to engage, which is a
whole other forum, but I do think it needs to be a bit more nuanced as we
approach the particulars in any particular country.
MS. GAER:Now, the clock on the wall says it's 5:00,
and I understand from the police and the people in charge of the building that
we can go on for about another five minutes.Five minutes isn't going to solve these issues or even allow us to
really air them, but I'm going to try to do what we can.So those of you that do have to leave, please
feel free to go.I'm going to go around
and ask for questions.I'll ask you to
make them very brief, and then if there's a chance for a final round after that
I'll be amazed, but we'll try to do it in those five minutes.
So I had Ms. Choudhury was
next.
ISHANI CHOUDHURY:My name is Ishani Choudhury, and I am the
executive director of the Hindu American Foundation.One of the comments that was passed around
that there was no pre-election violence last time the election had occurred in
Bangladesh, I think there have been sufficient reports in the media, in newspapers
and as well as television reports, along with Shahriar Kabir who was arrested
because he had decided to document the plight of Hindus who had fled Bangladesh
because of the fact that they were being intimidated.
Intimidation ranges anywhere from rape
of women to burning of their houses and so on and so forth, and my organization
continues to document the plight of Hindus in Bangladesh.The question is, how is it that we can make
sure that the rights of Hindus are protected even after the elections are
over?Because economic - (inaudible) -
the Hindu population declined from 30 percent in 1947 to about 9.6 percent now.
MS. GAER:Those are really important questions, and
we'll hold that for later.
Ms. Johnson.
FAY JOHNSON:Thank you.I want to just ask -
MS. GAER:Could you identify yourself?
MS. JOHNSON:Yes, Fay Johnson with the Congressional Human
Rights Caucus for Frank Wolf.I want to
ask the Commission, having put so much work into research on this, and wanting
to also address the concern that Dr. Benkin - (inaudible) - the
recommendations.As the Commission sees
it, how would you like to continue to engage those in Congress as well as the
NGO Committee about having these recommendations enforced as we look at having
- (inaudible) - be represented in hopefully peaceful elections in 2007?Would you like to kind of address that as far
as asking us how we can actually engage with you?
MS. GAER:No doubt we'll follow up on that with you
directly, but the short answer is this is the first of what must be several
efforts to focus in on the situation.I
think that Mr. Harrison made some terribly important points about U.S. policy
right now on these issues, and I think the recommendations stand there on their
own for any members who want to pick those up in an appropriate way.
Now, I promised others, and so the
gentlemen here, yes, please.Just please
identify yourself before you speak.(Cross talk.)I have both of you,
but he was first.
MR.:(Inaudible.)A few of the speakers - (inaudible) - various political parties' reforms
to promote and preserve democracy in Bangladesh.I don't think the BNP - (inaudible) - because
they are interested in this democracy and - (inaudible).I'll give you an example.When (inaudible) - the BNP government said
that (inaudible).So clearly we know
where the BNP government lies, and also to - this gentleman said that we need
to understand Sharia or Islam.I don't
understand why I have to understand Sharia or Islam.I find it difficult to understand what role
Islam or Sharia or any kind of religious view should have in political
discourse.
And also, a lot of people say that Bangladesh is a
democratic Muslim country.Why do I have
to identify my country as a Muslim country?Nobody calls America
as a Christian country or India
a Hindu country, so why I have to call myself a citizen of a Muslim country?
MS. GAER:Thank you.
MR.:Do we -
MS. GAER:We understand the question.I'm going to continue this and -
MR.:(Inaudible.)My question is that - (inaudible) - the system of Bangladesh.(Inaudible) - or after 1971, the name of
socialization, the name of nationalism - (inaudible) - and the name of enemy
property or vested property - (inaudible).Now we do not get any justice since 2001, the prosecution upheld the
conviction.We are facing so much -
(inaudible).
Somehow this Commission has to
force the government to prosecute these people.Then we can - (inaudible) - on democracy in Bangladesh.(Inaudible.)
MS. GAER:Thank you very much.
Yes, sir.And please identify yourself.
MR.:My name is Abdul Latif Shamrat.I am chairman of the Bangladesh Interfaith
Organization.And I - (inaudible).Bangladesh,
Madame Chairman, the people of Bangladesh
and the democratic government of Bangladesh
- (inaudible) - appreciate the relationship between U.S.
and Bangladesh.I appreciate while I was sitting and I was
listening to the many - (inaudible) - from all these papers, I'm very grateful
to say that none of the speakers said - (inaudible) - the government of Bangladesh has
done.As Congressman Joseph Crowley said
in a meeting in the Bangladeshi community that while the most powerful country
- (inaudible) - could not apprehend the mastermind of 9/11 in this country -
(inaudible) - government of Bangladesh was able to apprehend all the
masterminds of those terrorist activities, and they're awaiting their death
sentence in Bangladesh.
And as the - (inaudible) - in this
country what we are saying now, there are people with religious ethnicity, and
they are the political parties in - (inaudible).We cannot - (inaudible) - anybody as a -
(inaudible) - in progress and prosperity only because their organization is
named by Islam.
And also about the operations and
all those things, we all - the government, the people - of Bangladesh
convinced any religious official - (inaudible).I'll give you an example of - (inaudible) - Pakistan
and India.If you go on record, the number of riots,
pogroms and - (inaudible) - that happened around Bangladesh as - (inaudible).
Let me give you an example of the
city - (inaudible) - who was elected in - (inaudible) - where 85 percent of
people are Muslim.That shows people are
not - (inaudible).And also, this year,
as we speak, in Bangladesh
- (inaudible) - Hindu community, there was 23,000 places where the temple -
(inaudible) - without a single violence in the country.
Madame Chairman, why do we
appreciate your reforms?I find some of
the people - (inaudible).Why?Because if you ask anybody in this room, they
would say - (inaudible) - represented by only one party who has members in the
parliament and - (inaudible) - supporters in Bangladesh.
MS. GAER:Thank you, sir.I appreciate that.
Yes, sir.Please identify yourself.
MR. DWIJEN BHATTACHARJYA:(Off mike.)I teach at Columbia University, and this is a general
question.I fail to understand how an -
(inaudible) - conflict has anything to do with the following:A couple of months ago, the Honorable Prime
Minister Begum Khaleda Zia issued - removed - (inaudible).Then moving the Ramna
Kali Temple,
which can be likened to - (inaudible) - or the Vatican or the Kaaba to me as a
Hindu - the second-holiest shrine.She
has issued an order removing a building - (inaudible).
Number two, how come - (inaudible)?
Third question, how come 2.5
million acres of land has been cinched from the minority Hindus in a county
smaller than Wisconsin?This terrible anti-minority law was repealed
in 2001 by the secularists.This
government stopped it, blocked it.They
continued to seize property.Two months
ago they cinched nine properties.There
is a supreme court advocate here, Subrata Chowdhury.He filed a written petition.It has been stopped.Now, there is a written petition filed for
the - (inaudible) - on the removal of the Ramna Kaki Temple.This is the nature of wonderful harmony in Bangladesh, as supported by Prime
Minister Begum Zia.She's an honorable
person.Thank you.
MS. GAER:Well, I thank you also.
Now, I see more and more hands around
the room, and we do have to conclude.And so I'm going - several of you have submitted questions to me.I'd like to call on you, but we do have to
conclude.So I thank you.We are - our staff, Steve Snow, who is over
here, will appreciate any further information you wish to provide.To our participants on the panel, thank you
for coming.(Applause.)And to our speakers, a special thank you.