Ambassador's Remarks
Ambassador Ross Wilson
Interview with Banu Guven
NTV, Istanbul
May 31, 2007
NTV: Mr. Ambassador, good afternoon. Thanks for being with us. I would like to ask you about the airspace violation of the two F-16s. You said that you considered the matter closed, but a note was given [inaudible] as well. But still questions to ask. [Inaudible] for the first time since the war started in Iraq, and a four minute violation along the border. OK, by accident, you say, but four minutes, quite a long time. My question to you: What were they really doing on the border? Monitoring what was going on, on the Turkish side of the border, the activities of the Turkish military?
Ambassador Wilson: This was a flight, the kind our Air Force flies routinely, all over Iraq [inaudible], in the northern part of Iraq. As I indicated earlier, the pilot inadvertently crossed into Turkish air space, and continued to fly across Turkish airspace, not very far into it, for a brief period of time. Whether it’s one minute or two minutes or four, the [inaudible], but it was a brief incursion into Turkish airspace, and it was an inadvertent crossing of the airspace. The pilot has been dealt with by his superiors in Baghdad, [inaudible] his base. And it was simple pilot error. There’s nothing else going on. There was no surveillance of activities in Turkey or anything else.
NTV: But now you’re talking about one single pilot.
Ambassador Wilson: There were two planes that fly together. One of the pilots [inaudible].
NTV: And you say the time doesn’t matter, but actually four minutes for an air vehicle like F-16, is a lot of time. This vehicle could also take a Turkey trip in four minutes.
Ambassador Wilson: I don’t think they fly that fast. But my point is, however long it is, it’s not supposed to happen. If our airspace were violated, we would have a problem, we would complain to the government who’s responsible for it. That’s what the Turkish authorities did. I don’t have a problem with that. They drew it to our attention, they asked that we investigate it, and they asked that we try to ensure that it not occur again. And that’s exactly what we will do.
NTV: You said that there was an investigation. What about this investigation. On what level is it being done, and also, we’d like to know about the result?
Ambassador Wilson: The investigation is very simple. It was to determine how and why these pilots entered Turkish airspace. What were the circumstances that led to that? The conclusion that was drawn from this was that it was pilot error over where exactly the border was located.
NTV: Today, in one of the newspapers, there was information that these pilots for the time being are going to be prohibited to fly.
Ambassador Wilson: I don’t have that information.
NTV: So it’s not a valid information?
Ambassador Wilson: I do not have that information.
NTV: And do you think that the issue is closed for the Turkish side as well? Yesterday, Prime Minister Erdogan said, we gave this note to make sure that it won’t happen again. And the question was, what happens if we have this sort of a violation again? And the Prime Minister said, it’s known what will happen. So, not a very open question, but what does it mean to you?
Ambassador Wilson: Well, I think the Turkish authorities should speak for themselves about whether they consider this matter closed or not. We consider the matter closed. We investigated the circumstances. We have determined that it was an inadvertent error. It was not a planned activity. It was pilot error. The pilot has been dealt with. We’ve apologized to the Turkish authorities for this. We do not expect it to happen again. We do not send our planes into Turkish air space. It’s not our practice. Turkey is an ally. [Inaudible].
NTV: Do you have any problems with the language of the note?
Ambassador Wilson: No, I don’t have any problems with the language of the note.
NTV: The other issue, the possible operation of the Turkish Army in the north of Iraq. The parliament should give permission to the government to make it possible. There is cooperation between two countries or three countries, but no visible results for the Turkish public opinion, and also not for the government and not for the military. Do you see any visible results, why don’t we see any visible results?
Ambassador Wilson: I think in general, when [inaudible] terrorism is fought by countries and by governments, there’s often a great deal that the public does not see. That’s natural. It’s difficult then for the public to appreciate what may be going on, but it’s the way – frankly – the way it works. I am well aware that the Turkish government, the Turkish military and the Turkish people are not satisfied with the cooperation that [inaudible] to date, and I’ve said that publicly. And I’ve said publicly that I am not satisfied with the cooperation and [inaudible] assistance that the United States, and Turkey’s other [inaudible] allies have been able to provide to Turkey, on the PKK, whether it’s PKK activities in Europe, PKK activities in Iraq, or PKK activities within Turkey. There are some areas that we’re working on that I think have some problems. The appropriate Turkish authorities are aware of that, they’re aware of those activities. I don’t know when they will produce results, I don’t know whether they will produce results, and if they do produce results, I don’t know that we will be able to talk about what those results are. We do the best we can, and I’m determined –it’s one of our highest priorities to provide help and assistance to Turkey on this crucial [inaudible].
NTV: But at the same time there are other [inaudible]. And the American troops cannot do anything to [inaudible]. Maybe the Turkish public opinion would like to know why the American troops wouldn’t be able to do anything against PKK bases.
Ambassador Wilson: Well, I think our military commanders would probably have to speak to that. They can speak to it better than I can. We have felt, in Iraq, that our efforts needed to be focused on big problems for Iraq, which is getting the government stood up, helping it to be effective, helping it to consolidate its control in terms of security, over the territory in Iraq, step by step by step. To use the military phrase, ‘the center of gravity’ in Iraq, is in Baghdad. And that is almost exclusively, where our efforts have been focused over the course of the last several years. We have cautioned against steps that would undermine Iraqi territorial integrity or sovereignty; that would undermine what’s an extremely delicate and obviously very, very difficult political and security challenge that we face and that others face. Turkey has to draw its own conclusions. The appropriate authorities in this country have to draw the appropriate conclusions about the best way to defend the people in this country against the PKK, and for that matter, against other terrorist groups as well. We felt that the way to do that is to work collaboratively with the United States and we hope, to work collaboratively, the United States, Turkey, with the government of Iraq, as it consolidates its authority, to take full control over its territory all the way up to the border, so that the problem of the PKK in Iraq, it’s dealt with once and for all.
NTV: Yeah, you activate a collaboration between three parts, however, we see that the Turkish party doesn’t see any use in collaborating with Iraq, or at least with the authority in the north of Iraq. Today the Chief of the General Staff also mentioned that, because Barzani is seen as [inaudible], but allowing the PKK to have bases over there and to operate from there. So how can you see, [inaudible] collaboration could bring results?
Ambassador Wilson: The Turkish authorities that I’ve talked with, in the Foreign Ministry and also in the military, are – seem to me to be – fully prepared to [inaudible] that the government of Iraq is responsible for the national security of Iraq, and is responsible for the security of its borders. That’s reflected among other things, in the visit that Turkey’s Iraq coordinator, Ambassador Oguz Celikkol, made to Baghdad, I believe, over the weekend. He had discussions with the authorities on this issue and on other issues that are of interest to Turkey. He can speak for himself, but I think my perception is, I’m sure, he made very, very clear to the Iraqi authorities in Baghdad, Turkey’s concerns about the PKK and Turkey’s interests in trying to find a way forward with the authorities in Baghdad, responsible for the leadership of Iraq, to deal in a more constructive and productive manner, with the PKK. The concerns that exist here about discussions with Mr. Barzani [inaudible], I understand it. We have long encouraged a dialogue with the authorities in the north. But it is not a substitute for, or an alternative to, work with the authorities who are responsible for the country. And so from our point of view, we talk about US – Turkey – Iraq, in a three-way collaboration, meaning Ankara, Baghdad and Washington. And we still believe that there is a basis for going forward. We have worked over the last couple of months to try to put together a package that the countries – in particular Turkey and Iraq – could agree upon, or steps that they would take. That has proven to be a little bit harder than we had hoped [inaudible].
NTV: But you heard about the letter [inaudible] of May, for their contact, for a visit from Iraq in all these issues?
Ambassador Wilson: I’m aware of the correspondence. It’s up to [inaudible].
NTV: Yeah, so there’s no way [inaudible]. And Oguz Celikkol was in Iraq and made some of that, but --
Ambassador Wilson: Ambassador Celikkol [inaudible].
NTV: Yeah, it was yesterday [inaudible], that the control of security in the north was transferred to the Kurdish authority. On the one hand you have the States as willing to bring parties together, [inaudible] and reach a result through that. But on the other hand, you see that the security control, it means also that if any operations are going to be made, it should be made by Peshmerga in the north, right? It is given to the Kurdish authority. And it’s somehow contradictory for the Turkish side to see that. And today the Chief of the General Staff also mentioned that he had some problems with that, actually. What do you think?
Ambassador Wilson: Here, I think it would be worthwhile to get into a little bit more detail as to exactly what has taken place. We have been working throughout Iraq over the course of the last many months, anyway, and with the authorities in Baghdad and with provincial authorities, to transfer responsibility for security from coalition forces to the Iraqi government. We have carried out this transfer of authority in four provinces in other parts of the country. The decision that was finalized or completed, yesterday or the day before, was to transfer authority for the three provinces in the north [inaudible] Kurdistan Regional Government, to transfer authority to Iraq, to the authorities in Iraq. There are three forces that would be responsible for security in Iraq. One, is the Iraqi military, that reports to the Minister of Defense in Baghdad, through him to the Prime Minister of Iraq. Second force, is the police force of the Kurdistan Regional Government, which is responsible for all enforcement matters, as is the case in any other province. The third force is a re-formulated Peshmerga force that will be given a new name, Guardian of the Region. This is a process of being brought into conformity in terms of its relationship with the central government in Baghdad, in a way that mirrors the connections between the regional, provincial security forces in other parts of the country, and the authorities in Baghdad.
NTV: Which is the operational one?
Ambassador Wilson: The three work together. There is a triad that is responsible for security, and that is my understanding of how the situation works. Second, responsibility for the borders, the Iraqi-Turkish border, in this particular case, remains the responsibility of the Iraqi border guards, who report to the Ministry of the Interior in Baghdad. That is the national function, as is provided for in the Iraqi constitution. Third, there’s no change at all in the nature or the deployment of coalition forces, in the three provinces, that is taking place now, or is contemplated in the near future. The primary force in the North is a Korean force, a South Korean force. It has no plans to change what it does or how it does what it does. There are small contingents of American forces in the north. There are no plans to move them, there are no plans to change what it is that they do. So as a practical matter, there really isn’t that much that’s changing in Iraq, except the responsibility for the security in the North is formally being transferred to the government of Iraq.
NTV: OK but if the situation gets worse in terms of terror [inaudible], and if there were to be a decision by the parliament [inaudible] for an operation, what would you’re reaction be? I’m just talking if there’s a decision by the parliament.
Ambassador Wilson: I never like to speculate about hypothetical situations, but I think the one thing that’s obvious from the remarks that I’ve already made is that there is no change that’s relevant to anything Turkey may decide to do to defend itself, that follows from this [inaudible] decision to transfer authority to the government of Iraq for the security of the three provinces in the north.
NTV: Yeah, but if the terror attacks get worse, and now you see that on the border we have a lot of activity here too, and if there is a decision, because public opinion is also awaiting a decision [inaudible], that’s somehow consistent with your remarks that it’s the Turkish authorities’ decision to do whatever it needs to do. So would you say the same thing again?
Ambassador Wilson: It’s the responsibility of any democratically elected government, in fact any government anywhere, to provide for the security of its people in the wisest and most sensible way. I’m sure and I’m confident that Turkey’s democratically elected government and Turkey’s security forces will provide for the protection of the Turkish people, to work with Turkish friends and allies to the extent that it’s possible and appropriate to do so; to try as hard as possible with the least costly methods of providing for that security, and at the end of the day, to ensuring that the Turkish people are and feel protected [inaudible]. That’s a very normal thing, and Turks should be proud of that.
NTV: [inaudible] says the bases should be [inaudible]. Does the United States Administration see any possibility of, for [inaudible] planned, joint operation, or any kind of operation in the near future? I don’t know if you could answer that question.
Ambassador Wilson: I’m not going to speculate on what we would do [inaudible] or how we would do it. We feel very strongly that it is important for the United States to work with Turkey to help eliminate the use of Northern Iraq as a base from which Turkey is attacked by the PKK, and to work with Turkey [inaudible]. That’s the target. Bases, in a certain sense, can be important if it helps to eliminate threat. But the goal and the purpose of the activity has to be to eliminate that threat. That’s [inaudible] effectively [inaudible].
NTV: Thank you very much, Mr. Ambassador.
Ambassador Wilson: Thank you.