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[EnglishLanguage 2411] Re: EnglishLanguage Digest, Vol 32, Issue 35Sledd, Lee lsledd at tacomacc.eduTue May 13 12:39:54 EDT 2008
Hi. I'm Lee Sledd, and I work in a Family Literacy program through a Tacoma Community College in WA. Most of my experience has been with immigrants and refugees. My own opinion is that while there might be inherited genetic influence in the ability to form strange new sounds, it is individual, not ethnic. I have an ability to mimic a number of sounds- Russian, Arabic, Thai- but none of the ancestry. My mother can shift from southern US accent to mid-Atlantic, to British when she shifts environments. Among my students, some have no troubles but others seem to be talking through a balled-up, wet sock- and this proves very difficult to remedy. In addition to any predisposition (nature) think childhood experiences (nurture)- in my case, moving from rural VA to urban PA, and French classes in 4th grade, might also develop phonological awareness. I think also there is likely some evidence that controlling muscles of the mouth, like many other muscles, is somewhat 'set'- a tendency to ignore unused sounds and listen with a selective filter as we age. There is also, esp. with adults, the issue of performance anxiety when speaking odd noises and making mistakes- and the issue of whether taking on a new accent is inauthentic or disingenuous (as some said of Madonna). Lee Sledd Madison Family Literacy, ESL Tacoma Community College 253-571-1887 From: Andrea Canter Sent: Fri 5/9/2008 8:46 PM To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2369] Re: EnglishLanguage Digest, Vol 32, Issue 35 Okay, please don't laugh at me for this, but I was wondering.... does anyone on the list think that the ability to produce certain sounds could be hereditary? I am of Russian descent and when I was in high school I took a Russian language class. I had no previous experience with the Russian language, but my teacher was constantly amazed at my ability to pronounce the words. She said I sounded like a native Russian. I never practiced or tried very hard to pronounce the words correctly- it just came naturally. I thought maybe some physical trait dealing with the vocal cords or shape of the jaw bone, etc, might be responsible. Any thoughts?? Andrea C. On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 12:00 PM, <englishlanguage-request at nifl.gov> wrote: Send EnglishLanguage mailing list submissions to englishlanguage at nifl.gov To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to englishlanguage-request at nifl.gov You can reach the person managing the list at englishlanguage-owner at nifl.gov When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of EnglishLanguage digest..." Today's Topics: 1. [EnglishLanguage 2356] Re: Multiple language learning (robinschwarz1 at aol.com) 2. [EnglishLanguage 2357] Re: Language learning and children (robinschwarz1 at aol.com) 3. [EnglishLanguage 2358] Re: Other states of conciousness and langage learning (Michael Tate) 4. [EnglishLanguage 2359] Re: learning multiple languages (robinschwarz1 at aol.com) 5. [EnglishLanguage 2360] Notice from the National Institute for Literacy (Maralit, Mary Jo) 6. [EnglishLanguage 2361] Re: Correction: Sounds Easy (selover200 at comcast.net) 7. [EnglishLanguage 2362] Re: Best ESL Books, Teacher Resources, & Movies (LaFerlazzo at aol.com) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 12:55:32 -0400 From: robinschwarz1 at aol.com Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2356] Re: Multiple language learning To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov Message-ID: <8CA7F4376847428-5C0-21BA at FWM-D04.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From my observations and encounters over the years, I would say children are the best example of all of motivation for language learning.? I can't even count the families I know, including my own, where parents wanted children to maintain a language learned in a foreign setting, but once back in the US, the children, who know perfectly well their peers do not use the language, would not.? One of the instances of successful multiple language learning in children that I knew of personally was a family whose mother was Italian, father American and nanny Spanish-speaking.? Each care giver from birth of the two children, talked to and responded to them ONLY in that person's language without fail.? I saw many instances where a child would address the mom in English, for example, and she would act as if she were deaf until the child switched to Italian.?? When I knew the children as they started school-- 5 and 7--they were fully trilingual, and continued to be so through high school. This takes tremendous discipline on the part of the caregivers. Think how many children in our schools come from a home where another language is spoken and once they learn English refuse to continue to speak the home language and the parents cave into the children's addressing them in English.? Lily Wong-Filmore, who has done so much for the field of bilingual education, has some pretty painful stories about the consequences of this language switch.?? Robin Lovrien Schwarz -----Original Message----- From: Steve Kaufmann <steve at thelinguist.com> To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List <englishlanguage at nifl.gov> Sent: Tue, 6 May 2008 3:21 pm Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2334] Re: Multiple language learning Language learning requires motivation. The important thing with children is to get them to like languages, to open their eyes and ears to the music and logic other worlds, and to avoid burdening them with concerns about what is correct syntax, nor giving them the idea that it is something that the parents wants them to do. To some extent you have to love a language to learn it. I would not favour any kind of mechanical or subliminal language learning experiments. Why not just let children listen to stories and read them when they are awake. We want them to be awake to discover the delights of different languages and cultures. Having tried to get my own children to learn languages and failed, I would suggest that any deliberate effort to push languages at children is very likely to fail. Steve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/englishlanguage/attachments/20080508/63f19b99/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 12:59:48 -0400 From: robinschwarz1 at aol.com Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2357] Re: Language learning and children To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov Message-ID: <8CA7F440E205DA7-5C0-220F at FWM-D04.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" GREAT STORY!!!? Similar to the experience of my daughters. ? ? Robin Lovrien Schwarz -----Original Message----- From: Ujwala Samant <lalumineuse at yahoo.com> To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List <englishlanguage at nifl.gov> Sent: Wed, 7 May 2008 3:35 pm Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2344] Re: Language learning and children --- Steve Kaufmann <steve at thelinguist.com> wrote: > For what it is worth I do not believe that > "if a child is not exposed to a sound in the first > three years of life, then > the ability for the brain to recognize that sound > later (when learning a > second language) is limited, or even precluded." > I simply know too many exceptions to that rule, > including myself. It is not > true for all. It may be true for some. > > I believe that the brain is a Darwinian space. If a > child is exposed to more > than one language, this will develop an ability to > process the sounds and > structure of that language to some extent. If that > is not continued this > ability will decline. But reviving that ability will > be easier, I believe, > than starting from scratch. In either case, the > motivation of the learner, > the willingness to project oneself into the position > of a speaker of another > language, the position of a member of another > cultural community,this > attitude will be the most important factor. If a > child can enjoy stories of > another culture, and can enjoy the music and > structure of another language, > this will prepare the child for serious study later.<< That sounds like my son's experience of Arabic. When living in a suburb of Paris, he picked up Arabic from his babysitter who was Algerian and our neighbours who were Tunisian. When he was 4 we moved to the US and English replaced Arabic. We returned to France 5 years ago and his teacher who was Tunisian told us that our son's pronunciation of Arabic sounds was perfect. My son told me he sometimes felt he had a filing cabinet inside his brain and sounds just came out right. Thought that was a good description, because it has spurred his desire to learn languages, especially Arabic. > As Rubem Alves, famous Brazilian educator said > > *Se o conhecimento cient?fico de anatomia fosse > condi??o para se fazer > amor, os professores de anatomia seriam amantes > insuper?veis. Se o > conhecimento acad?mico da gram?tica fosse condi??o > para se fazer > literatura, os gram?ticos seria escritores > insuper?veis. Mas essa n?o ? a > verdade. ... > > Gram?tica se faz com palavras mortas. Literatura se > faz com palavras vivas.* > > "If the scientific knowledge of anatomy were a > condition for making love, > professors of anatomy would be unrivaled lovers. If > the academic knowledge > of grammar were a condition for making literature, > grammarians would be > unrivaled writers. But this is not the case..... > > Grammar is made with words that are dead. Literature > is made with words that > are alive." > So let's teach the love of the language, not the > academic details.,, How beautiful! Thanks very much for reminding us that language is about poetry, discovery.... Ujwala > > Steve > > > > > > > On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 5:16 AM, Martin Senger > <MSenger at gecac.org> wrote: > > > Pax all! > > > > > > > > I think I should clarify what I am proposing. I > was just wondering if > > someone passively exposed a child (less than three > years of age) to the > > sounds of different languages, would that child > retain the *ability to > > recognize those sounds* later in life. Some > research states that if a > > child is not exposed to a sound in the first three > years of life, then the > > ability for the brain to recognize that sound > later (when learning a second > > language) is limited, or even precluded. > > > > > > > > Also, to play devil's advocate, would passive > learning on a limited basis > > (recorded samples of a language) provide any > long-term benefit for second > > language acquisition? I am not a researcher, nor a > holder of advanced > > degrees; I am simply an ESL teacher with a curious > mind! > > > > > > > > Martin E. Senger > > > > Adult ESL Teacher > > > > GECAC / The R. Benjamin Wiley Learning Center > > > > Erie, Pa > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > *From:* englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto: > > englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] *On Behalf Of > *Martin Senger > > *Sent:* Tuesday, May 06, 2008 2:07 PM > > *To:* The Adult English Language Learners > Discussion List > > *Subject:* [EnglishLanguage 2331] Multiple > language learning > > > > > > > > Pax all! > > > > > > > > Praised be for the Internet! I did a quick google, > and found the tem > > "hypnopedia." It refers explicitly to learning > while sleeping. While pretty > > much debunked for general learning, I saw nothing > which talks strictly about > > sound processing. Just from my own experience, > there may be something to it. > > I know, from the aforementioned 4 & 2-year olds, > if they make even the > > slightest "odd" sound while I am sleeping, I am > instantly wide awake. I then > > listen intently (hence the "wide awake") to hear > any follow-up sounds worth > > investigating. So, that must mean my brain is in > some way processing some > > sounds. > > > > > > > > Now I am not saying you could learn another > "language" while sleeping, but > > is it possible that we could introduce, or maybe > even "teach" new language > > sounds to the sleeping brain? What say you? > > > > > > > > Martin E. Senger > > > > Adult ESL Teacher > > > > GECAC / The R. Benjamin Wiley Learning Center > > > > Erie, Pa > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > *From:* englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto: > > englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] *On Behalf Of > *Andrea Canter > > *Sent:* Tuesday, May 06, 2008 1:04 PM > > *To:* englishlanguage at nifl.gov > > *Subject:* [EnglishLanguage 2328] Re: > EnglishLanguage Digest, Vol 32, > > Issue 15 > > > > > > > > Robin, > > > > Are their books pretty accessible to lay-people? > > > > Andrea > > > > On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 8:23 AM, > <englishlanguage-request at nifl.gov> wrote: > > > > Send EnglishLanguage mailing list submissions to > > englishlanguage at nifl.gov > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide > Web, visit > > > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body > 'help' to > > englishlanguage-request at nifl.gov > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > englishlanguage-owner at nifl.gov > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it > is more specific > === message truncated ===> ---------------------------------------------------- > National Institute for Literacy > Adult English Language Learners mailing list > EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, > please go to > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage > Email delivered to lalumineuse at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ---------------------------------------------------- National Institute for Literacy Adult English Language Learners mailing list EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage Email delivered to robinschwarz1 at aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/englishlanguage/attachments/20080508/7606d014/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 10:13:45 -0700 From: "Michael Tate" <mtate at sbctc.edu> Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2358] Re: Other states of conciousness and langage learning To: "The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List" <englishlanguage at nifl.gov> Message-ID: <0CA6C79FCB4AC642A77B76C17A4316EE032056DF at exch-1.sbctc2.local> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Nadia, I'm far from an expert on the Lozanov method, but I think Lozanov used hypnosis in various studies he did on the brain. His study led him to suggest that the brain learns better and faster if certain conditions can be created which he applied to an educational philosophy. There are two or three "schools" of Lozanov. A key part of the Lozanov method I experienced was the use of suggestion and creating "suggestable" conditions. My experience of the suggestion techniques was that it was not "hypnosis", but the use of ageless practices for getting humans in a condition where they can "receive" information: meditation, guided visualizations, yoga, cleansing rituals, "change of state/place/condition" rituals, etc. Sometimes the suggestions were explicit. Teachers tell students during visualizations that they are healthy, happy, ready to learn, etc. A central element of the visualization is to relax students and to take students to a more perceptive/receptive state. While students have their eyes closed, the teacher calms students with suggestions that follow a suggestion pattern that students quickly learn to recognize. The visualization is constructed to help students return to a time when they were more playful, curious, trusting, open. This was an example of the implicit suggestion: they are not told to be childlike, but they reconnect to that time and state. Mostly, students were exposed to "clues" about how Spanish works. We learned all that the way children do. I remember only two explicit statements about Spanish verbs and agreement. As I am reflecting on this now, it occurs to me that explicit statements about grammar are very un-Lozanov, because they create a "knowledge hierarchy" (some things are more important to learn than others which "warps" they way we learn) and the teacher is suggesting that this information is "too hard" to understand by discovery and habituation. Thanks for your question. It made me re-think and re-live this experience. -----Original Message----- From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Nadia and Kevin Colby Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 11:17 PM To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2347] Re: Multiple language learning About 20 years ago, I participated in a workshop presented in the Language Center of the Independent University of Mexico. The presenter was a Mexican woman who had lived in France for half of her life. I was her assistant for that workshop. My role was precisely to read in French the material she chose (simple questions and answers if I am not mistaken) for the students using Suggestopedia. I did not feel that much was accomplished with the students. Frankly, nothing in the First and Second Language Acquisition classes that I enrolled in as a not matric in the Graduate Center of the City Univ. of New York, suggested that hypnosis was (which is partly what suggestopedia attempts to use, please correct me if I am off the mark) a reliable method. Particularly with adults learning a second language I tend much more to believe in contextualized approaches. Perhaps when one already has latent knowledge of grammar structures, vocabulary and the sound system of a second language, suggestopedia becomes effective. I do remember that one of the most interesting discussions in the Second Language Acquisition class (for which I ended up with an incomplete, unfortunately) dealt more with explicit vs implicit grammar approaches. In both cases context played a very important role. How did the class you took dealt with contextualization and what did you like the most about it? Would you say that the morphemes that define tense and pronoun in a null subject language, such as Spanish can be learned through suggestopedia? Thanks for your comments, Michael. Nadia --- Michael Tate <mtate at sbctc.edu> wrote: > I haven't followed the research on this, but I found > that I learned > quicker, easier and retained more when I was in a > Suggestology (also > known as Suggestopedia or Super Learning or the > Lozanov Method) Spanish > class. This approach emphasizes playfulness, > relaxation, the use of > calming music, visualization, very rich, > emotionally-upbeat stories, > and of course, suggestion. While suggestion is > operating all through > the course, it is most perceptible when students > listen to dialogs with > musical backgrounds while waiting to fall off to > sleep. I enjoyed > transforming into a character that I imagined named > Lorenzo, a Chilean > poet who loved roses and fine wine who interacted > with a lot of other > lovely characters that my classmates had dreamed up. > Over the years, I > have tried to use parts of the Suggestopedia > approach in our > no-nonsense, federally-funded ESL classes with some > success, but the > federal utilitarianism mandate and the lyrical > approach of > Suggestopedia clash. > > > > From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov > [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf > Of Martin Senger > Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 12:07 PM > To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion > List > Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2331] Multiple language > learning > > > > Pax all! > > > > Praised be for the Internet! I did a quick google, > and found the tem > "hypnopedia." It refers explicitly to learning while > sleeping. While > pretty much debunked for general learning, I saw > nothing which talks > strictly about sound processing. Just from my own > experience, there may > be something to it. I know, from the aforementioned > 4 & 2-year olds, if > they make even the slightest "odd" sound while I am > sleeping, I am > instantly wide awake. I then listen intently (hence > the "wide awake") to > hear any follow-up sounds worth investigating. So, > that must mean my > brain is in some way processing some sounds. > > > > Now I am not saying you could learn another > "language" while sleeping, > but is it possible that we could introduce, or maybe > even "teach" new > language sounds to the sleeping brain? What say you? > > > > Martin E. Senger > > Adult ESL Teacher > > GECAC / The R. Benjamin Wiley Learning Center > > Erie, Pa > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov > [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf > Of Andrea Canter > Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 1:04 PM > To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov > Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2328] Re: EnglishLanguage > Digest, Vol 32, > Issue 15 > > > > Robin, > > Are their books pretty accessible to lay-people? > > Andrea > > > > On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 8:23 AM, > <englishlanguage-request at nifl.gov> > wrote: > > Send EnglishLanguage mailing list submissions to > englishlanguage at nifl.gov > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, > visit > > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage > or, via email, send a message with subject or body > 'help' to > englishlanguage-request at nifl.gov > > You can reach the person managing the list at > englishlanguage-owner at nifl.gov > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it > is more specific > than "Re: Contents of EnglishLanguage digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. [EnglishLanguage 2322] Re: EnglishLanguage > Digest, Vol 32, > Issue 6 (robinschwarz1 at aol.com) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 05 May 2008 22:38:24 -0400 > From: robinschwarz1 at aol.com > Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2322] Re: EnglishLanguage > Digest, Vol 32, > Issue 6 > To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov > Message-ID: > <8CA7D3963B24F38-A40-24F7 at webmail-me15.sysops.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > Andrea--there is a whole field devoted to multiple > language > acquisition.? Two researchers who have written or > edited books about > this are De Angelis and Selinker--they published one > in 2001 and another > in 2007.? > > Robin Schwarz > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Andrea Canter <lucidpandora at gmail.com> > To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov > Sent: Sat, 3 May 2008 9:11 pm > Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2315] Re: EnglishLanguage > Digest, Vol 32, > Issue 6 > > > > > > > > > > I am curious how 3rd and 4th language learning > differs from 2nd language > learning. In my own experience, once I started > learning beyond the > second language I found myself getting all my > languages confused. I > would think and say words in French when I was > trying to speak German > and vice versa. This is good in respect to > exercising the ability to > think in another language, but obviously very > cumbersome. Is this > normally what happens? Is there ANY research on it > at all? > > > Andrea Canter > > > > === message truncated ===> ---------------------------------------------------- > National Institute for Literacy > Adult English Language Learners mailing list > EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, > please go to > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage > Email delivered to thecolbys at prodigy.net ---------------------------------------------------- National Institute for Literacy Adult English Language Learners mailing list EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage Email delivered to mtate at sbctc.ctc.edu ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 13:44:42 -0400 From: robinschwarz1 at aol.com Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2359] Re: learning multiple languages To: dezreen at excite.com, englishlanguage at nifl.gov Message-ID: <8CA7F4A54CE5044-5C0-261E at FWM-D04.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Kathleen-- first, I have to disagree that the fact of being exposed to native speakers of? a language is ignored in language learning research. On the contrary, my recent foray into adult language acquisition made it extremely clear that this is a critical factor in how fast and how well adults learn language-- children, too, for that matter.? Second, I love your example of learning Japanese-- I studied French formally in foreign language classes for 6 years (2 high school and four in college, with numerous courses, not one per semester) and then 20 weeks of intensive French in Peace Corps training (I was in an unusual two-summer training program the PC was experimenting with) --this was 8 hours a day, 7 of those with a speaker of French who was either native or spoke FSL, 1 hour in a language lab-- and then more French on site in my country.? Though I scored very high in all French courses, I could not ask for a bar of soap at the local store when I actually had to use French!!!?? I, too, learned on the ground, responding to my students and neighbors and store keepers.? I learned a local language the same way -class time helped me with pronunciation and new sounds and entirely new grammar structures, but actual usage came from having to talk to people in my town. ? I LOVE learning languages the formal way, but kno w from experience, that actual usable language for me came from having to use it as I needed it.?? That students do not learn if the lessons are not relevant is one of the corner stones of my personal work in adult ESOL.?? Recently I have heard even more wonderful stories of students eagerly doing work--homework and self-designed activities in the class setting--when they were learning what they came to class for: English they need for very specific circumstances.? For example, two teachers I met recently in very different places related stories about individual learners who were working at the counter in McDonald's and risked losing their jobs because they could not understand what customers wanted nor could they be understood by customers and co-workers.? Both teachers went to McDonald's, got menus and other teaching materials Mc Donald's provides, and helped their learners devise ways to learn to recognize and say all the items on the menu plus the standard questions and answers needed at the food counter.?? Both students learned all this vocabulary in two weeks!? And o f COURSE came back for more help on other specific needs.?? These stories, plus some pretty compelling research, convince me that unless we pay attention to what EXACTLY our students come to English classes for, we continue to risk losing them in droves.? Perhaps this list remembers my referring to a study reported on at the Meeting of the Minds in Sacramento CA in Dec 2006 . An ESOL teacher in the Denver area did a remarkable study with Mexican mothers of children in the local schools.? This teacher wanted to prove what she knew: that these mothers were EXTREMELY interested in learning English because they wanted to keep track of their children's progress in school and wanted to communicate with the schools effectively. The schools, which offered standard family ESL programs for parents and had the usual 70-90% dropout rates, had concluded that parents were just not motivated to learn English.?? In the study, the teacher taught other ESOL teachers how to do REAL project based learning, then set up a class for Mexican mothers and had a control class of regular ESOL with the usual vocabulary and grammar instruction. The mothers' class created projects according to what the mothers perceived were the topics of great interest to them: how to understand report cards, how to understand homework assignments, how to talk to principals and teachers about concerns about their children, etc.? The participants designed all their own projects and teachers helped with finding resources and answering questions. ? The mothers' class had an 80% + attendance rate over the months of the study and gained 24 points on the BEST test, while the control group had a less than 30% retention/attendance rate and gained more or less 7 points on the BEST test.? Here motivation was everything-- the mothers were learning EXACTLY what they wanted and needed to learn while the others were being offered an English-as-a-foreign-language class. We as ESOL teachers KNOW that students ULTIMATELY need all the English and grammar we want to teach them, but the problem is that teaching does NOT address adult ESOL learners' specific, urgent needs, and they get impatient.? I could, and do, I know, go on and on about this topic, which is extremely compelling in? terms of retention/persistence,? better learner outcomes on standardized testing etc.?? I hope these examples help others to reflect, as you are Kathleen, on whether what you are teaching is actually what learners need and want to learn NOW.?? Robin Lovrien Schwarz, Independent Consultant in Adult ESOL and Learning Difficulties -----Original Message----- From: kathleen morgan <dezreen at excite.com> To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov Sent: Tue, 6 May 2008 7:09 pm Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2335] Re: learning multiple languages I agree with the 'more language, more enjoyment' philosopy as well. When frustrated with my language learning or in watching a student not make much progress, I remind myself that motivation is tied to need of use w hich is tied to being happy because you can communicate. Are my students not learning because the curriculum doesn't connect with their life needs and therefore their happiness? Do you know many people who have become highly fluent in a new language by learning in isolation with limited interaction or natural practice? Friends of mine who 'know' many languages can easily identify what they need each language for - to talk with their cleaning lady, to buy a newspaper or train ticket, to function at their job, etc. They are not necessarily highly fluent, but their motivation is tied to living in a multi-linguistic community and needing to communicate. Ultimately, I believe that all language learners need a lot of exposure to native speakers and feel that this is ignored a great deal in language learning research. I think that adults rarely take the time to really just listen to a new language. When I lived in Japan for a year I politely declined Japanese lessons having just been released from 10 years of high school and college level Spanish instruction with zero connection to my needs. After 1-2 months in Japan, I had learned so much on the subconscious level but could not explain that to others (who all thought I was mad). I began to understand bits of conversation and spoke when I thought I could handle it. At around 3 months, I was ready for more structure and had questions! By 9 months, all sorts of words and phrases I had never 'learned' in a structured environment were spilling out of my mouth, much to the surprise of my doubting, dedicated kanji-studying friends. In the end, I have found that the best lessons in my classroom are when my students are having so much fun interacting that they don't have time to think about what they are saying. Isn't that what fun is all about? Kathleen Telluride CO > robinschwarz1 at aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/englishlanguage/attachments/20080508/09b501f2/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 14:35:45 -0400 From: "Maralit, Mary Jo" <MMaralit at NIFL.gov> Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2360] Notice from the National Institute for Literacy To: <assessment at nifl.gov>, <englishlanguage at nifl.gov>, <familyliteracy at nifl.gov>, <focusonbasics at nifl.gov>, <healthliteracy at nifl.gov>, <learningdisabilities at nifl.gov>, <povertyracewomen at nifl.gov>, <professionaldevelopment at nifl.gov>, <specialtopics at nifl.gov>, <technology at nifl.gov>, <workplace at nifl.gov> Message-ID: <4062487BDB6029428A763CAEF4E1FE5B153835DE at wdcrobe2m03.ed.gov> Dear List subscribers, I just wanted to send out a little note of apology for emails that were sent out from our development server. We are currently re-configuring the server, which inadvertently sent out emails to subscribers within the past 2 hours. Consequently, you may have received an email from mailman-owner at dev.nifl.gov. Please disregard those emails and accept my sincere apologies. As subscribers, we understand the volume of mail that you receive daily and we will take steps to avoid instances like this in the future. If you have any questions, please let me know. I can be reached at mmaralit at nifl.gov. Sincerely, Jo Maralit National Institute for Literacy mmaralit at nifl.gov ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Fri, 09 May 2008 00:07:47 +0000 From: selover200 at comcast.net Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2361] Re: Correction: Sounds Easy To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List <englishlanguage at nifl.gov> Message-ID: <050920080007.18835.482395D3000D47D8000049932215575114CFCFCD9D0A9001040A9C at comcast.net> To all: Correction: The book is Sounds Easy by Sharron Basson published by Alta Teacher Series. Thanks, Linda -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: selover200 at comcast.net > Hello all- > We do letter names and letter sounds in my class, and we use the Sounds are Fun > book for some exercises. (I just found the book in Feb, so we are not going to > get through the whole book this year.) > I find that the book can help barely literate students to understand that > letters have individual sounds, and this helps them with their reading as well > as their pronunciation and hearing. > > I tell my students that we need gymnastics for their mouth, tongues, lips and > ears when we do exercises from the Sounds Are Fun book. I explain that as > adults, our tongues, lips and other muscles are less flexible than when we are > younger, but we can still exercise them and practice and make our pronunciation > better with practice. > > We laugh together as I teach them to stick out their tongues a bit to make a th > sound, or smile and then make a Vvvv sound. However, when they do it, they get > it. They might not be able to say it every time, but they learn how it is made. > We do this as a whole group, so I don't usually single out students. I might go > around the room and listen to students individually if they are having problems. > > They laugh at the faces I make when I try to emphasize a sound so that they can > see how I am using my tongue, lips and mouth. Too bad I don't have a computer > generated cut away that can show that actual position of the tongue inside the > mouth. > > I still cannot do a properly trilled rr in Spanish. I can approximate the sound, > but my tongue does it in the front of the mouth, when it should be done further > back in the mouth (I think). However, I can accept that my pronunciation of > Spanish may not be perfect, but my students can understand me clearly if I use > it to explain something. > > There may be some sounds that we cannot mimic, and some that we cannot hear > correctly or differentiate easily because we are not accustomed to making or > hearing those sounds. So, we might still speak with an accent, but that does > not mean that we cannot learn a language well enough to communicate. > > Many Americans are just too willing to accept that they "cannot" learn a > language as an adult so that they have an excuse not to learn other languages. > > I have picked up a book that explains that the brains is much more flexible or > "plastic" than originally thought. This book talks about research with brain > injured adults and how different parts of their brain can take over for the > damaged parts. > Therefore, I would think that our brains are much more powerful than how we use > them in daily life. > > Linda Selover > Healdsburg Adult Ed > > > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > From: "Martin Senger" <MSenger at GECAC.org> > > Pax all! > > > > I completely agree than full language acquisition > > (listening/speaking/reading/writing) cannot be accomplished through > > passive listening alone. What I am looking at here is how the brain > > learns the "sounds" of a language only (auditory phonetics), and nothing > > more. > > > > That being said, do we have any evidence, yea or nea, about how the > > brain hears and remembers specific sounds in any language, L1 or L2? > > Unless someone here is privy to very new and advanced research on the > > brain, we may not have the answer. Until we have that research, > > anecdotal evidence may be our only choice. > > > > And is there a "critical period" for acquiring language sounds? Steven > > has said the he disagrees, but I am not convinced. Is it 100%? No, but I > > cannot help but feel that an infant is somehow "hardwired" for learning > > new sounds (a vital skill for a new human). When one tries to acquire a > > second language later in life, has something changed in our brain from > > infancy which makes it harder? > > > > And if, if that is true, is there anything we can do in infancy to lay > > groundwork for later sound acquisition? Again, I must state that this is > > regarding phonemic awareness only. > > > > Then, what about adults learning new sounds? In your classes, do you > > teach specific problem sounds to your students, and how? In my classes, > > I try to identify my students' specific speech problems, then try to get > > the student to see their problems themselves. The "first step to solving > > a problem is admitting you have one" sort-of-thing. > > > > Most of us here are teachers. What do you think about this? What > > anecdotal evidence is there? > > > > Ciao! > > Martin > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > National Institute for Literacy > > Adult English Language Learners mailing list > > EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov > > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to > > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage > > Email delivered to selover200 at comcast.net > > ---------------------------------------------------- > National Institute for Literacy > Adult English Language Learners mailing list > EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage > Email delivered to selover200 at comcast.net ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 11:25:16 EDT From: LaFerlazzo at aol.com Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2362] Re: Best ESL Books, Teacher Resources, & Movies To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov Message-ID: <be1.32faa9e9.3555c6dc at aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I've posted these on other lists, but I don't think I've ever shared them with this particular list. People might be interested in these "The Best..." lists: The Best Books For Teaching & Learning ESL/EFL _http://larryferlazzo.edublogs.org/2008/04/19/the-best-books-for-teaching-lear ning-eslefl/_ (http://larryferlazzo.edublogs.org/2008/04/19/the-best-books-for-teaching-learning-eslefl/) The Best Popular Movies/TV Shows For ESL/EFL _http://larryferlazzo.edublogs.org/2008/04/26/the-best-popular-moviestv-shows- for-eslefl/_ (http://larryferlazzo.edublogs.org/2008/04/26/the-best-popular-moviestv-shows-for-eslefl/) The Best Resource Sties For ESL/EFL Teachers _http://larryferlazzo.edublogs.org/2008/04/29/the-best-resource-sites-for-esle fl-teachers/_ (http://larryferlazzo.edublogs.org/2008/04/29/the-best-resource-sites-for-eslefl-teachers/) Larry Ferlazzo Luther Burbank High School Sacramento, CA **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/englishlanguage/attachments/20080509/362fb5fc/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ ---------------------------------------------------- National Institute for Literacy Adult English Language Learners mailing list EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage End of EnglishLanguage Digest, Vol 32, Issue 35 *********************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/englishlanguage/attachments/20080513/236cc865/attachment.html
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