Checkpoint Lines - What Do You Think?
I caught this article in the New York Times Sunday magazine over the weekend. Personally, I think the author (who didn’t talk to TSA for this piece) is confusing millimeter wave and backscatter, but that's not what caught my attention. His take on the lines before the checkpoint and who gets to go through quicker was interesting, and admittedly, we don't hear a lot about that. So we’d like to get your take on it.
Here's a snippet:
"Whether richer fliers should be allowed to cut in line at checkpoints is one of a family of problems that crop up when public spaces and private interests intersect, and selling off favored outcomes makes the public spaces more efficient. Some states let single drivers pay extra to use H.O.V. lanes. What looks to one person like flexibility looks to another like bribing your way through the system.
Although there is no principled argument for segregated airport security, maybe there is a pragmatic one. Elite travelers tend to be repeat travelers. As likely as not, they have had their luggage rummaged through three times in the past week, and the airlines - or their databases - know who they are. If there were some security-based system for speeding their transit, that would be great. Since there is no such system, maybe the rough-and-ready class system is (without meaning to be, of course) fair.”
Check out the entire article. Thanks for your feedback.
Lynn
EoS Blog Team
posted by Glen at
10:30 PM
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99 Comments:
Airlines reward their most frequent travelers with Elite status. These seasoned "road warriors" tend to expect the perks that come with their status such as free first class upgrades, etc.
Security is an entirely different game in my opinion. Everyone should be treated equally in the security lines regardless of the "class" of the traveler being screened. I realize that the airlines want to afford these additional perks to their most frequent (notice I do not say best) customers, when it comes to the checkpoint, and the area leading up to the checkpoint, I believe there should be no special distinction.
Repeat travelers or not, we are all screened the same way. The experience should be the same, including the necessary wait time.
May 12, 2008 11:52 PM
I think the different lines (once you get past ID control) we have in Denver are a start. I heard the NPR report on BWI. Overall, it sounds good. As to the very intimate scan, I agree that it's weird at best, and it's only anonymous until something suspicious is spotted. Doesn't mean that suspicious item is necessarily going to be illegal. I think if I were to see it in hi-rez I'd be very creeped out. Might even prefer the occasional patdown. As to the pay service for shorter lines, just fine by me. I'm a budget flyer, but would consier paying the fee if it were available in a lot more places. As it is, it will only work for 1/people who can easily part with the dough and 2/people who fly frequently among the limited number of airports in the program.
May 13, 2008 12:45 AM
There's a great line from the security director in the Tom Hanks movie 'Terminal' or similar I could quote, but I'll forego the entertainment value. There is no place for jokes in security theatre.
How about instead of institutionalized navel-gazing and trying to appear busy, the TSA just figures out how to make the following happen?:
1. Increase the number of TSO's present and Lanes open during peak hours. Maybe nobody should go on an unrelieved break?
2. Decrease the amount of time a passenger has to deal with the TSA. The less I have to put up with a drooling octopus oogling me the better.
3. Increase the privacy and security of a persons baggage throughout the system.
4. Decrease the amount of stress experienced by those passing through the system.
5. Provide postage-paid "mail it back" padded envelopes for things that people don't want to have to "surrender".
5. Fix/Eliminate the errors (human, procedural, software and hardware)in the system.
Now if we could just get the TSOs to paw through my dirty lingerie only when their super-secret screening process can't differentiate between my silver bullet/Big Tom and an improvised explosive device..
May 13, 2008 3:30 AM
I think we should not have gotten to the point in which organizing special security lines for high end fliers was worth it.
I also think the Times author is right when he says the lines and the whole TSA attitude over the years has made the public accept anything, including being seen naked.
Let us go back to the subject of why the MMW images are scanned in a separate room, and why the silly liquid rule, and why everyone must remove their shoes, and why normal people are on "SSSS" lists.
May 13, 2008 5:36 AM
Dang Lynn you must be reading my mind. I was going to post on this today after I got some sleep. Thanks a lot now I will be up for a while. ;-)
Here is the deal, TSA check points are Government run. My security fees, taxes, and RIGHTS are the same as the first class passengers.
Allowing one class to be elevated by a Government entity stinks to high heaven.
The lame excuse that the airlines own the real estate before the check point is wrong. The TSA controls the check point and the line down to the last person waiting.
Should I be able to pay my way to the front of the line at the DMV? How about paying to have my case heard first in a court of law? Can I pay a fee (read bribe) so I can break the speed limit laws? Can I pay to jump in line at the voting booth? After all I am a busy man, I have blogs to post on. Speaking of that can I pay a fee to insure that my posts are put up immediately and without censor?
We are NOT a country of Lords and Royalty, in fact this country was founded with the principle that ALL men are created equal. This includes those that can bribe their way to the front of the line with an over priced ticket. If the airlines want to allow those people to board first, give them hot towels and butt rubs, I have no problem with that. The airlines are a PRIVATE entity, the TSA is not.
I am going to bed now, when I wake up I will be back to rake the TSA over the coals on your new Registered Traveler bribery system.
p.s. if you guys have not heard much about the first class passengers jumping in line it is because you have not been listening. That topic has come up on here and all we got was the lame excuse mentioned above. Night Night, Trollkiller is tired and needs his rest or he gets cranky.
May 13, 2008 6:39 AM
I was actually told by a screener at IAD that this was done for security reasons...obviously!
Absolutely agree, no reason for separate lines at all. But the checkpoint experience is already so bungled by assorted TSO cowboys and their random rules that this is low on the list. Get your people to allow passengers to pick their own damn line once you get to the front. There is no reason to direct them into a longer line or yell at them when they ignore you. You can't effectively run the logistics of organizing the checkpoint as it is, why should we trust you with the logistics of detecting all the nonthreatening items you have banned?
May 13, 2008 7:48 AM
Here is big democratic improvement you can make to the screening process.
Right now after my ID is checked I need to pick the security line I think will be fastest. (and the new ski run designations are supposed to help but rely on people being able to correctly self select themselves).
If I pick right, great if I pick wrong I get to cool my heals behind a slow poke.
Eliminate this randomness.
Instead have a single feeder line to all screening checkpoints. The next person in line goes to the next open screening line. This means if I'm #27 in line I will be the 27th person to be screened. This also means any one or two slow people will not impede the progress of an entire line.
Another advantage of this would be luggage flowing through the X-Ray machine won't be backing up. behind the machine while people move through faster than the luggage.
Also if I am the only person currently transiting a checkpoint there is less risk of my bags walking away without me.
May 13, 2008 8:23 AM
Actually, I am also confused about the difference between backscatter and MMW. Have you posted on this already? If not, what is the difference?
May 13, 2008 8:49 AM
Exactly why should any traveler receive government services differently than any other citizen?
Will you start sorting out each person based on how much they paid for their ticket? Prices for a seat in coach can be almost as much as a 1st class ticket if the person bought at the last minute.
TSA should and must treat each traveler exactly the same. The price of the ticket has no bearing on TSA harassment!
Let the airlines award the perks, you TSA types just keep screwing over the public using the order of arrival for your theater seating!
May 13, 2008 9:49 AM
Aren't airport usually built and supported by public (mostly municipal) dollars? I know that here in Phoenix, Terminal 4 was built with money from a public bond.
If that is the case, why would the "elite" get better treatment at a municipal facility. My taxes helped to pay off that bond just as much as the flyer living in North Scottsdale or Paradise Valley.
If the airlines want to give Mr. Moneybags or Ms. Very Frequent Flyer some perks, they can do so by giving them a pass to the airline's club room.
We should all be treated exactly the same when it comes to security and in basic services at any publicly financed and supported airport.
Of course, we live in a world where an administrative assistance is fired for missing a deadline, but if you run Bear Sterns into the ground, you get $61 million for your troubles.
May 13, 2008 10:27 AM
The best things TSA could do to each checkpoint lines is drop the inane 3-1-1 liquid policy that has utterly no scientific justification (as you well know and continue to lie about on a regular basis), and end mandatory shoe screening. These two things alone would probably cut the screening time in half.
May 13, 2008 10:51 AM
Those that fly all the time carrying very little should actually be afforded the shorter lines. It shouldn't have anything to do with how much your ticket costs as this has nothing to do with the TSA. That everyone wants the shortest line is obvious, but self selecting doesn't work because families with young children and all the equipment as well as the disabled take longer to get their things divested which holds up the line and they will still choose the shorter line given the choice. Infrequent flyers do not understand the reasoning for the ski lanes.
May 13, 2008 11:04 AM
Speaking about Lords and Royalty, what about all the TSOs who jump to the front of the line in order to report to work. Shouldn't they have to show up sufficiently early to work to allow time to check in?
May 13, 2008 11:46 AM
Please stop the whinning and reply to the post, what is your take on the subject at hand. All of the nose breathing knuckle draggers stop with the "security theater" crap and answer the question.
May 13, 2008 11:49 AM
While I understand the issues the travelers have from a manager standpoint I really wish we did not have anything other than the self select lines. I know that TSA has nothing to do with how the ques are managed ahead of their TDC but most travelers do not and really do not care to hear it. Regardless of who really does it the TSA takes the hit in most cases. It was the same with the ticket checking. TSA did it at first, then due to manpower issues they gave it back to the airlines and now, for security reasons they perform it again. Prior to TDC we still got the blame for someone screwing up the ticket checking. If I am going to be forced to handle the complaint then I would like to have the control and to that end, no special lines outside the self select.
May 13, 2008 12:50 PM
Response to - Anonymous said...
There's a great line from the security director in the Tom Hanks movie 'Terminal' or similar I could quote, but I'll forego the entertainment value. There is no place for jokes in security theatre.
How about instead of institutionalized navel-gazing and trying to appear busy, the TSA just figures out how to make the following happen?:
1. Increase the number of TSO's present and Lanes open during peak hours. Maybe nobody should go on an unrelieved break?
2. Decrease the amount of time a passenger has to deal with the TSA. The less I have to put up with a drooling octopus oogling me the better.
3. Increase the privacy and security of a persons baggage throughout the system.
4. Decrease the amount of stress experienced by those passing through the system.
5. Provide postage-paid "mail it back" padded envelopes for things that people don't want to have to "surrender".
5. Fix/Eliminate the errors (human, procedural, software and hardware)in the system.
Now if we could just get the TSOs to paw through my dirty lingerie only when their super-secret screening process can't differentiate between my silver bullet/Big Tom and an improvised explosive device..
________________________________
Nice closing paragraph. However, your request for a post paid envelope. How about just watching how you pack so it isn't the tax payer sending your buck knife home? I would also suggest placing BIG TOM in your checked bag or at least in a plastic bag if I am forced to check it.
May 13, 2008 12:55 PM
Anonymous at 12:50 p.m. said:
"It was the same with the ticket checking. TSA did it at first, then due to manpower issues they gave it back to the airlines and now, for security reasons they perform it again."
What kind of "security" does checking tickets, bp's and id's give us? None.
May 13, 2008 1:57 PM
A TSA employee, hiding behind anonymity said:
>>Nice closing paragraph. However, your request for a post paid envelope. How about just watching how you pack so it isn't the tax payer sending your buck knife home? I would also suggest placing BIG TOM in your checked bag or at least in a plastic bag if I am forced to check it.
I must be nice to be perfect, to have never made a mistake, to have a spouse and kids who fully comprehend allt he rules -- even those you make up on the spot -- so that when they accidentally put the $15.00 Epcot 1" snow dome in the handheld baggage (in the sealed package, in the Disney bag, with the receipt) on the way back form Orlando, it does not get confiscated at a threat to national security by an agent who probably wants it for her kids.
It is your superior, holier-than-thou, macho rent-a-cop attitudes that have ruined travelling.
Oh, sure, give me the option of going back out through security, to the airline counter, and checking a tiny item, and then having to go throught the security gauntlet one more time -- drop your belt, take off your shoes, hold up your pands, and try to find a place to put yourself together while being jostled by everyone else.
Every one of you people needs to go through the screening process at least twice a day. Get in the line (at the end) and deal with what you subject the innocent flying public to on a daily basis.
May 13, 2008 4:20 PM
This whole process is pointless. After paying $100 and subjecting your life to a background check, you still have to be X-rayed, you still need to go through metal detectors, you still need to unpack your laptop, and you still need to remove several articles of clothing.
So, after paying the government for a background check, you gain absolutely nothing. Well, you get to wait for the same 30 minutes as everybody else, but on a different line.
This is nothing more than a way to get $100 out of those customers that are too lazy to read the fine print.
May 13, 2008 4:40 PM
There are a number of misconceptions in these comments.
1. TSA does not control the line. Entrance to the line is provided by private subcontractors who are paid by the airline (for example, UA uses AirServe). TSA assumes control at the point in which your ID and boarding pass are checked.
2. TSA security is paid for by a tax on each airline ticket. A frequent flier who flies 100 times a year will pay 50 times more tax to support TSA than a casual flier who only flies twice.
3. Airlines reward their high-revenue passengers with a number of perks. A high revenue passenger is either one who has paid for a first class ticket, or one who flies an airline often. As the airlines need high revenue fliers to generate income (the margin on low-fare advance purchase tickets that are typical of those bought by casual fliers can be only a few dollars). Without providing perks to those upon whom the airlines depend for their survival, there wouldn't be airlines at all.
4. Elite status fliers aren't royalty. They are, however, very experienced fliers and know exactly what can and cannot be brought through, have their shoes off and their laptops in the bin immediately, have removed all metal from their pockets, etc. The reason you don't see long lines at the "priority" screening is because we know how to move through quickly without holding up the process. Casual fliers have to deal with the security lines once or twice a year. We deal with the security screening once or twice a week, or more. Flying is as much a part of our routine as driving a car to most Americans and we know how to deal with it efficiently.
5. The point everyone seems to miss is that the current implementation of security screening is a complete dog-and-pony show, put on to reassure the casual flier that it's really safe. The x-ray machine does not detect explosives, and the "hit" rate by TSA for IEDs and weapons is dismally low. Plastic baggies do not neutralize explosive liquids which, in any event, pose a completely de minimus risk to aviation. What casual fliers don't know, however, is that uninspected cargo and U.S. mail is loaded aboard every single commercial aircraft in the United States. What casual fliers also don't know is that the most dangerous terrorists in the world are not on the no-fly list. The government doesn't include them for security reasons. Accordingly, all this ID checking and no-fly nonsense does nothing to keep the most dangerous people off of American planes and instead harasses those who do not present what the government thinks is a risk.
This isn't a secret -- potential terrorists are just as aware of this as frequent fliers. So, why the dog-and-pony show? It is for YOU, Mr. and Mrs. Casual Flier, so that you'll continue to fill the airline's seats. We frequent fliers know that, statistically, flying is very safe and the odds of being a terrorist's target are very, very small. We have to go through this sham, however, because YOU, Mr. and Mrs. Casual Flier, think that pointless hassle translates into security. It does not. It remains pointless hassle.
Even TSA recognizes this, and has begun to implement "experienced flier," "casual flier," and "family" lanes. So, please stop griping about how elitist the priority lines are. You do not pay for them, you do not pay a fraction of the security tax that frequent fliers pay, and the only reason we have to endure this nonsense is because of your lack of understanding of the air transport system.
I'm not suggesting we don't need passenger screening in the interest of security. We certainly don't, however, need the system that's been implemented. Go ahead -- ask the TSOs who blog here and see if they disagree.
May 13, 2008 6:02 PM
I think that when faced with these private-public intersections, the question we need to ask is: Why did we institute these measures? Going back to the HOV line example, if HOV was instituted to cut down air pollution and congestion, then single riders should not be able to pay their way out of the restrictions. After all, the extra fees aren't going to reduce pollution or congestion, but they will swell the state's coffers.
To return to the matter at hand, the TSA is charged with making sure nobody hijacks, blows up, or otherwise misuses aircraft and other means of transportation. Paying extra money to an airline (or even to the TSA itself) doesn't achieve that goal. Therefore, I am inclined to oppose this idea.
May 13, 2008 6:03 PM
There are a number of misconceptions in these comments.
1. TSA does not control the line. Entrance to the line is provided by private subcontractors who are paid by the airline (for example, UA uses AirServe). TSA assumes control at the point in which your ID and boarding pass are checked.
2. TSAs security is paid for by a tax on each airline ticket. A frequent flier who flies 100 times a year will pay 50 times more tax to support TSA than a casual flier who only flies twice.
3. Airlines reward their high-revenue passengers with a number of perks. A high revenue passenger is either one who has paid for a first class ticket, or one who flies an airline often. As the airlines need high revenue fliers to generate income (the margin on low-fare advance purchase tickets that are typical of those bought by casual fliers) can be only a couple of dollars). Without providing perks to those upon whom the airlines depend for their survival, there wouldn't be airlines at all.
4. Elite status fliers aren't royalty. They are, however, very experienced fliers and know exactly what can and cannot be brought through, have their shoes off and their laptops in the bin immediately, have removed all metal from their pockets, etc. The reason you don't see long lines at the "priority" screening is because we know how to move through quickly without holding up the process. Casual fliers have to deal with the security lines once or twice a year. We deal with the security once or twice a week, or more. Flying is as much a part of our routine as driving a car to most Americans.
5. The point everyone seems to miss is that the current implementation of security screening is a complete dog-and-pony show, put on to reassure the casual flier that it's really safe. The x-ray machine does not detect explosive, and the "hit" rate by TSA for IEDs and weapons is dismally low. Plastic baggies do not neutralize explosive liquids which, in any event, pose a completely de minimus risk to aviation. What casual fliers don't know, however, is that uninspected cargo and U.S. mail is loaded aboard every single commercial aircraft in the United States. What casual fliers also don't know is that the most dangerous terrorists in the world are not on the no-fly list. The government doesn't include them for security reasons. Accordingly, all this ID checking and no-fly nonsense does nothing to keep the most dangerous people off of American planes.
This isn't a secret -- potential terrorists are just as aware of this as frequent fliers. So, why the dog-and-pony show? It is for YOU, Mr. and Mrs. Casual Flier, so that you'll continue to fill the airline's seats. We frequent fliers know that, statistically, flying is very safe and the odds of being a terrorist's target are very, very small. We have to go through this sham, however, because YOU, Mr. and Mrs. Casual Flier, think that pointless hassle translates into security. It does not. It remains pointless hassle.
Even TSA recognizes this, and has begun to implement "experienced flier," "casual flier," and "family" lanes. So, please stop griping about how elitist the priority lines are. You do not pay for them, you do not pay a fraction of the security tax that frequent fliers pay, and the only reason we have to endure this nonsense is because of your lack of understanding of the air transport system.
I'm not suggesting we don't need passenger screening in the interest of security. We certainly don't, however, need the system that's been implemented. Go ahead -- ask the TSOs who blog here and see if they disagree.
May 13, 2008 6:04 PM
anoynomous your 2nd comment misses a big detail. Yes the 100 travel pays 100 times the tax of a 1 traveler, but they also use 100 times the service. You pay a flat rate to the TSA and that covers security. You leaving out the frequent flier being frequently screened in your math...
my bigger issue though is with this post...I didn't catch it at first but I really feel like this is another 'oh look a puppy' post. Your turning the questions away from the newly posted (and still quite controversial) MMW issue after doing the minimal work required for a PR blitz of 'we listened to bloggers'. The most distrubing part is that you seem to be trying to now turn the passengers on one another by bringing this up.
And as for the TSA not controlling the line...then why can't I switch tho the empty 'first class' screening area when I get to the front at IAD. both lines feed into the same general area separated only by a TSO telling me that the other side is (and I quote) 'for first class passengers only'
May 14, 2008 12:56 AM
Anonymous said...
1. Increase the number of TSO's present and Lanes open during peak hours. Maybe nobody should go on an unrelieved break?
2. Decrease the amount of time a passenger has to deal with the TSA. The less I have to put up with a drooling octopus oogling me the better.
3. Increase the privacy and security of a persons baggage throughout the system.
4. Decrease the amount of stress experienced by those passing through the system.
5. Provide postage-paid "mail it back" padded envelopes for things that people don't want to have to "surrender".
5. Fix/Eliminate the errors (human, procedural, software and hardware)in the system.
Answers to;
3. Placing a couple of plastic straps on checked luggage will eliminate the pointing of fingers when something comes up missing from the bag. It will also be a visual indicator that the bag has been screened.
5. (the first one)
Unfortunately you can't place pre-paid mailers in the security area because of postal regulations, anything weighing over 13 oz. bearing stamps must be handed to a postal employee. Pre-paid mailers with an indicia can only be mailed to the indicia holder.
So the only way to make a mailing program work is to set up a mini post office or nonpostal shipping center in the screening area. I think they tried this at some airports and found that if it costs $25 to mail your $50 pocket knife, most likely you will just toss the knife.
May 14, 2008 1:57 AM
Ayn R. Key said...
Speaking about Lords and Royalty, what about all the TSOs who jump to the front of the line in order to report to work. Shouldn't they have to show up sufficiently early to work to allow time to check in?
I will excuse TSOs, airline and airport personnel for jumping in line. I don't want my money paying for someone milking the clock. Let them get in and get to work.
Speaking of TSOs, why don't they have to remove their shoes and when they get the new metal badges they need to remove those too.
If a nipple ring can cause alarm because it may be a blasting cap, then a badge should cause the same alarm because it could be concealing a blasting cap.
Before any of the TSOs holler "we've had background checks" read my next post first.
May 14, 2008 2:13 AM
Anonymous said...
There are a number of misconceptions in these comments.
1. TSA does not control the line. Entrance to the line is provided by private subcontractors who are paid by the airline (for example, UA uses AirServe). TSA assumes control at the point in which your ID and boarding pass are checked.
2. TSAs security is paid for by a tax on each airline ticket. A frequent flier who flies 100 times a year will pay 50 times more tax to support TSA than a casual flier who only flies twice.
3. Airlines reward their high-revenue passengers with a number of perks. A high revenue passenger is either one who has paid for a first class ticket, or one who flies an airline often. As the airlines need high revenue fliers to generate income (the margin on low-fare advance purchase tickets that are typical of those bought by casual fliers) can be only a couple of dollars). Without providing perks to those upon whom the airlines depend for their survival, there wouldn't be airlines at all.
4. Elite status fliers aren't royalty. They are, however, very experienced fliers and know exactly what can and cannot be brought through, have their shoes off and their laptops in the bin immediately, have removed all metal from their pockets, etc. The reason you don't see long lines at the "priority" screening is because we know how to move through quickly without holding up the process. Casual fliers have to deal with the security lines once or twice a year. We deal with the security once or twice a week, or more. Flying is as much a part of our routine as driving a car to most Americans.
5. The point everyone seems to miss is that the current implementation of security screening is a complete dog-and-pony show, put on to reassure the casual flier that it's really safe. The x-ray machine does not detect explosive, and the "hit" rate by TSA for IEDs and weapons is dismally low. Plastic baggies do not neutralize explosive liquids which, in any event, pose a completely de minimus risk to aviation. What casual fliers don't know, however, is that uninspected cargo and U.S. mail is loaded aboard every single commercial aircraft in the United States. What casual fliers also don't know is that the most dangerous terrorists in the world are not on the no-fly list. The government doesn't include them for security reasons. Accordingly, all this ID checking and no-fly nonsense does nothing to keep the most dangerous people off of American planes.
This isn't a secret -- potential terrorists are just as aware of this as frequent fliers. So, why the dog-and-pony show? It is for YOU, Mr. and Mrs. Casual Flier, so that you'll continue to fill the airline's seats. We frequent fliers know that, statistically, flying is very safe and the odds of being a terrorist's target are very, very small. We have to go through this sham, however, because YOU, Mr. and Mrs. Casual Flier, think that pointless hassle translates into security. It does not. It remains pointless hassle.
Even TSA recognizes this, and has begun to implement "experienced flier," "casual flier," and "family" lanes. So, please stop griping about how elitist the priority lines are. You do not pay for them, you do not pay a fraction of the security tax that frequent fliers pay, and the only reason we have to endure this nonsense is because of your lack of understanding of the air transport system.
I'm not suggesting we don't need passenger screening in the interest of security. We certainly don't, however, need the system that's been implemented. Go ahead -- ask the TSOs who blog here and see if they disagree.
It was so good you had to say it twice? ;-)
1. The TSA controls the security at the airport. This covers all the airport including the line BEFORE the document check. If they have chosen not to do so that is a problem that needs to be fixed.
The TSA controls what a private airline's customer is able to have on board. I am sure most of the airlines would not care if you bring your bathroom scale with you in carry on. If the TSA has the authority to do this then the TSA has the authority to implement a first come first served policy.
2. The security fees HELP pay for the TSA. Millions of taxpayers that never fly still have their money poured into this agency. They receive no benefit from it except a few more people off welfare.
The argument you make that the frequent flyer pays more so therefor is entitled to more is false. First the passenger that flies 50 times more than I do uses 50 times more the resources. His security fee is the same as mine per departure. It is a USER fee, you use the security checkpoint for a flight you pay your money.
Should someone that eats at McDonald's 5 times a week be able to cut in line in front of someone that eats there once in a while? Of course not so your argument fails.
3. The airlines can offer perks to high revenue customers, they are a PRIVATE company. The TSA is a Government entity that should NOT be giving perks to help a PRIVATE company.
If something is necessary as you think air travel is then the airline can either make it on their own or fail. If they fail the airline that can make the profit will take the customers. Sometimes companies become obsolete because they are too costly to maintain, that is the nature of a capitalistic society.
4. I have no problem with self select lanes. Great you know the drill and can get through with little hassle. That still does not give you a jump in line BEFORE the document checker. Think of a movie house, the document checker is like the ticket taker. Everybody waits in the same line up to him, he takes your ticket and you wander off to your movie. In case you did not figure it out, the individual theaters are the self select security lines.
5. No argument from me on all of that. The fact that property is stolen from luggage on a daily basis is enough for me to know that the cargo is not secure. I have suggested plastic straps be placed on the luggage after it is screened so that if someone opens the bag they have to remove the strap. If the airlines refuse to load a bag that is strapless at least the luggage part of the cargo will be secure.
Another hole in the security is the TSOs. They will claim that they have all had background checks so they are exempt from removing their shoes and are allowed a less than thorough screening.
Over 200 screeners have been caught stealing, proving that a background check is NOT 100%.
Many a man with a high security clearance that was granted after intensive vetting has sold secrets to the enemies of this country. Is the TSA so foolish to think doing background checks on passengers with the new Registered Passengers bribe scheme will prevent one of those people from becoming a turncoat? I assume the person makes good money if they are flying enough to participate by paying the new bribe.
If people with good paying jobs can be turned for money, why couldn't a person making TSO wages be turned.
How easy would it be for a TSO, that is not properly screened when entering a sterile area, to smuggle in an explosive device to be passed off to a terrorist? With the new metal badges I could easily see hiding a blasting cap behind it and when the detector goes off saying "it is just the badge".
TSOs, airline and airport personnel need to be screened completely every time they enter the secure area.
This putting a steel door on a grass hut is for the birds and it needs to STOP. Either plug the holes or go away.
Let the airlines control the security. Those planes are expensive, losing one to a terrorist costs a lot of money. Not to mention the extra loss in business. After all who wants to fly on a plane that may go boom.
May 14, 2008 6:26 AM
Check-point lines?
Lethargic
Long
Potential target for terrorists (security at any cost folks paying attention?)
Unpleasant
Annoying when you see TSA types taking breaks in the screening areas.
Best of the worst idea.
Time to drink up the last of your beverage.
Bottlenecks.
Gives you time to wonder what 'new' SOP they've come up with this time.
Suggest, like others, that they go to Disney and see how Disney handles large crowds. Perhaps they might visit Schiphol and see how real security professionals do this.
May 14, 2008 8:36 AM
I'm opposed to allowing someone else to move ahead of me in line because of their "elite" status with an airline. The reason is simple -- the airline is giving that "elite" flyer something that is not theirs to give -- my time.
If the airline wants to spend some of their profits to provide perks to a frequent flyer, fine. But, don't take my time and give it to someone else.
I wonder how these elite flyers would feel if they were in a retail store and someone else were helped ahead of them because they were an "elite" customer?
May 14, 2008 8:49 AM
I can appreciate the viewpoint of those who have submitted comments to this blog. However, it seems as if they have a myopic view of the screening process. I am in no way an “elite flyer”. I would NEVER pay for any type of frequent flyer perks. I would however zip through the lines because I have a basic understanding of the current rules and regulations and respond accordingly. What few flyers seem to understand is how much they contribute to the long lines. The flyer who waits until he get all the way to the front of the line to take items out of his pocket, take his shoes off, take his laptop out of his bag, etc. is the reason why everybody behind him has to wait. Therein lines the ideology behind the different lines in the checkpoint. Those people who fly frequently (doesn’t mean they are not flying coach) know the procedure, carry few bags and start getting ready as soon as they pick up a bin. Additionally, TSA recognizes that some people need a little extra time and help, such as families flying with children. Perhaps it is difficult to self select I don’t know, I would assume that if you don’t know what you need to do as an adult you know how to ask. TSA procedures are readily available online too. I’d also like to mention that it may seem stupid and annoying to take off your shoes and not be able to carry liquids/gels until you remember that this is a NECESSARY EVIL. Have we Americans so quickly forgotten all of the terrorist attacks in other countries not to mention 9/11? It’s time to stop being so complacent and acknowledge the fact that unfortunately, this is the world we live in. I really wish people would stop beating on TSA.
May 14, 2008 9:31 AM
Will you really be giving your staff badges? Instead of easier to read IDs on their uniform? (Get rid of the brushed metal look.)
How do LEOs feel about TSA staff getting badges?
,>)
T. Saint
May 14, 2008 9:33 AM
Airlines dictate whether TSA runs a fast-lane and who goes in it (i.e. business and first class passengers). I've often wondered whether they pay the TSA for this extra service? Thanks for your reply to this thread.
May 14, 2008 12:51 PM
Responding to - Ayn R. Key said...
Speaking about Lords and Royalty, what about all the TSOs who jump to the front of the line in order to report to work. Shouldn't they have to show up sufficiently early to work to allow time to check in?
__________________________________
Not sure of the labor law on making that a requirement but it would cost the taxpayer in the end. Also, the faster they get them through the faster they can be put in a lane. Therefore the quicker you get through.
May 14, 2008 2:01 PM
Responding to -Sandra said...
Anonymous at 12:50 p.m. said:
"It was the same with the ticket checking. TSA did it at first, then due to manpower issues they gave it back to the airlines and now, for security reasons they perform it again."
What kind of "security" does checking tickets, bp's and id's give us? None.
________________________________
I am sure there were good people checking tickets and matching them to IDs. But I am also sure there were many who didn't give a hoot and would have let someone go through with a Mickey Mouse picture on their DL, because it has happened and worse.
The individuals performing the TDC funtion have much more training in fraud ID checking and are rotated out which helps keep people focused. There have been many cases already where they identified fraudulent travel docs. Have they busted Osama, no, but it is a heck of a lot better than what was there before and has ongoing training.
May 14, 2008 2:07 PM
Responding to - Abelard said...
Aren't airport usually built and supported by public (mostly municipal) dollars? I know that here in Phoenix, Terminal 4 was built with money from a public bond.
If that is the case, why would the "elite" get better treatment at a municipal facility. My taxes helped to pay off that bond just as much as the flyer living in North Scottsdale or Paradise Valley.
If the airlines want to give Mr. Moneybags or Ms. Very Frequent Flyer some perks, they can do so by giving them a pass to the airline's club room.
We should all be treated exactly the same when it comes to security and in basic services at any publicly financed and supported airport.
Of course, we live in a world where an administrative assistance is fired for missing a deadline, but if you run Bear Sterns into the ground, you get $61 million for your troubles.
__________________________________
100% on the corperate $61M. But as airports go, most have to be self sufficient and receive no public funds as other areas of gov. do.
The airport directors are always out there trying to lure the SW and Jet Blues to their locations. As such they make some pretty amazing deals which in effect give the carriers control over large areas on the public side and inside their concourses. If your airport is a large hub for a major carrier, such as Atlanta for Delta then oh, yes....Delta has a lot of pull. It is way too complicated to go into here but the managing of a profitable airport is very complex with TSA having only a tiny part. Also, one can not loose sight of the fact that air travel is not a "right" but a contract between you and the private company that operates the AC.
May 14, 2008 2:16 PM
"I’d also like to mention that it may seem stupid and annoying to take off your shoes and not be able to carry liquids/gels until you remember that this is a NECESSARY EVIL. Have we Americans so quickly forgotten all of the terrorist attacks in other countries not to mention 9/11? It’s time to stop being so complacent and acknowledge the fact that unfortunately, this is the world we live in. I really wish people would stop beating on TSA."
Nope. Haven't forgotten terror attacks, but don't agree that the security BS being inconsistently applied is worth it, or necessary. I'd prefer that the many concerns expressed above were dealt with. I'd prefer that DHS and TSA would put some brain-power into how to address airline (and homeland) security in a way that doesn't abuse citizens, trample rights, or create/reinforce hostility toward our government.
I will continue to criticize and "beat" on TSA practices that deserve to be beaten on.
Remember the whole quote that has been so brutalized lately:
Senator Carl Schurz "My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right."
May 14, 2008 2:18 PM
Responding to - Gunner said...
A TSA employee, hiding behind anonymity said:
>>Nice closing paragraph. However, your request for a post paid envelope. How about just watching how you pack so it isn't the tax payer sending your buck knife home? I would also suggest placing BIG TOM in your checked bag or at least in a plastic bag if I am forced to check it.
I must be nice to be perfect, to have never made a mistake, to have a spouse and kids who fully comprehend allt he rules -- even those you make up on the spot -- so that when they accidentally put the $15.00 Epcot 1" snow dome in the handheld baggage (in the sealed package, in the Disney bag, with the receipt) on the way back form Orlando, it does not get confiscated at a threat to national security by an agent who probably wants it for her kids.
It is your superior, holier-than-thou, macho rent-a-cop attitudes that have ruined travelling.
Oh, sure, give me the option of going back out through security, to the airline counter, and checking a tiny item, and then having to go throught the security gauntlet one more time -- drop your belt, take off your shoes, hold up your pands, and try to find a place to put yourself together while being jostled by everyone else.
Every one of you people needs to go through the screening process at least twice a day. Get in the line (at the end) and deal with what you subject the innocent flying public to on a daily basis.
___________________________________
Not a jack booted thug or insensitive. But still say when you see what comes through, knives, guns, fireworks, etc, etc and in nearly ever case you are told "I forgot it was in the bag".
For most people you can simply place it in checked bags and as long as it isn't HAZMAT (thats a DOT rule) it is normally fine. Firearms - no problem if properly packaged, unloaded, and declared.
As for your Disney Globe, the screening SOP allows a supervisor to allow some prohibited liquids through if they can determine it not to be a threat and we have procedures for that. A Snow White snow globe in Orlando is likely second only to mouse ears in the #1 going through a check point.
Again, I see posts all the time here that make me bang my head on the wall wondering what people were thinking, why the TSO didn't call for a supervisor, use all the tools available, etc. The provision in the SOP isn't a requirement for the supervisor but is the grey area that allows for common sence.
So, I have definetly made mistakes and get calls all the time at home from persons wanting to know what they can and can not pack. I try to answer as I can and many times refer them to the airline they are traveling. Lately it has been Trollkiller who has been slamming me, maybe you 2 should team up.
My goal here isn't to hide behind anonymous but to try and answer things being asked which I don't see the blog team doing. Sorry about your globe, I don't think that would have happened at our airport.
May 14, 2008 2:32 PM
Response to - miller said...
Check-point lines?
Lethargic
Long
Potential target for terrorists (security at any cost folks paying attention?)
Unpleasant
Annoying when you see TSA types taking breaks in the screening areas.
Best of the worst idea.
Time to drink up the last of your beverage.
Bottlenecks.
Gives you time to wonder what 'new' SOP they've come up with this time.
Suggest, like others, that they go to Disney and see how Disney handles large crowds. Perhaps they might visit Schiphol and see how real security professionals do this.
________________________________
Been through Schiphol many times and yes, they do a good job. BUT - they don't have the ACLU and every other person trying to tear them apart. These same civil liberties many are screaming are being violated are of little concern there. When comparring apples to oranges you have to be fair a recognize the diff.
May 14, 2008 2:38 PM
Anonymous said...
Will you really be giving your staff badges? Instead of easier to read IDs on their uniform? (Get rid of the brushed metal look.)
How do LEOs feel about TSA staff getting badges?
,>)
T. Saint
__________________________________
Yes, they are with the new uniform, as for the LEO concern...do you poll everyone around you to see how they feel about your decisions?
May 14, 2008 2:41 PM
Trollkiller asked on .May 14, 2008 2:13 AM..
Speaking of TSOs, why don't they have to remove their shoes and when they get the new metal badges they need to remove those too.
If a nipple ring can cause alarm because it may be a blasting cap, then a badge should cause the same alarm because it could be concealing a blasting cap.
********************************
Because the screener manning the WTMD turns it off when a fellow, fully-shod, screener goes thru so it won't alarm. Though, of course, the TSA calls this 're-calibrating' the machine. If you ever have the misfortune of being hip-checked out of the way by a screener, especially one on a coffee run as I was in BOS (see the 'Got Feedback' forum for futher details re: that) watch the top of the WTMD after the fully-shod screener goes thru & you'll see the MD screener fiddle w/a button on the top panel & then all the lights flash on & off as the machine re-sets itself. Neat trick, huh? But then, they, allegedly, get screened for real (or so they claim) when they start their shift &, as you pointed out, they've had their super special background checks, too (please note the sarcasm).
And then T. Saint asked on May 14, 2008 9:33 AM
Will you really be giving your staff badges? Instead of easier to read IDs on their uniform? (Get rid of the brushed metal look.)
How do LEOs feel about TSA staff getting badges?
********************************
Yes, sad but true-badges & new 'Gee, I almost look like a real cop now!' uniforms, too (there's a thread, somewhere, on this blog that has a link to a picture of the new get-up; I think it's in the Checkpoint Evolution threads.) Apparently some screeners @ BWI are already sporting them, according to reports on FlyerTalk.com
To answer your question re: how the REAL cops feel about this? Let's just say, from various forums I've seen linked on FlyerTalk when discussing the new get-ups, it's overwhelmingly negative. Sorry, I don't have time to go find the link for you, but if you do a search of the Travel Safety & Security Forum on FT, you'll find it.
May 14, 2008 2:43 PM
"do you poll everyone around you to see how they feel about your decisions?"
Good point. It isn't really a matter of how LEOs feel about it.
I don't like non-law enforcement people being given new props. I don't like them dressing like someone they are not.
WWDD?
What would Disney do?
May 14, 2008 3:32 PM
"do you poll everyone around you to see how they feel about your decisions?"
My decisions do not affect countless people.
The TSA'a decision do.
May 14, 2008 3:35 PM
Anonymous said...
Actually, I am also confused about the difference between backscatter and MMW. Have you posted on this already? If not, what is the difference?
May 13, 2008 8:49 AM
*******************************
You're not the only one who's confused - I'm working on a post about that this week. Thanks for posting your comment!
Lynn
EOS Blog Team
May 14, 2008 5:27 PM
I've never heard of the metal detector being turned off for screeners to walk through. Different airports have different rules regarding TSO's screening but they all do have to be screened at least once before working in the checkpoint. Most of us buy shoes without metal shanks and remove the other metal that would cause us to alarm before walking through. If our shoes cause an alarm we must remove them just like you folks and clear.
I'd not mind removing my shoes everytime but don't see the need. When I fly I remove my shoes just like you do.
May 14, 2008 5:35 PM
"But I am also sure there were many who didn't give a hoot and would have let someone go through with a Mickey Mouse picture on their DL, because it has happened and worse."
So? All the 9/11 hijackers had legitimate IDs. ID checks do NOTHING to make air travel safer. Get rid of them, and the pointless and scientifically indefensible 3.4-1-1 nonsense, and shoe screenings, and watch the lines move much quicker than they do now.
May 14, 2008 5:43 PM
Actually, I am also confused about the difference between backscatter and MMW. Have you posted on this already? If not, what is the difference?
Backscatter relies on the RF in the background and on the RF we all naturally emit and as such is a passive system with pretty much just a receiver. MMW has a man-made transmitter that illuminates you and a receiver. As such it is an active system probably with a much better imaging system
May 14, 2008 6:14 PM
Responding to Anonymous responding to Sandra re ID checks:
The job of the TSA is NOT to find people with fraudulent identification.
Terrorism 101 teaches that if you're going to set out to do evil, you do it with FALSE, not fraudulent, ID. There's a difference: fraudulent may be discovered; FALSE won't be.
----
BTW, where is my SO's post about Michael Sheehan's book in which he references the total waste that is DHS?
May 14, 2008 7:13 PM
lynn of all the things that have been brought up here thats what you respond to?
Your not LEO your grunt labor. Accept it deal with it. What would the reaction be if McDonalds renamed their cashiers "Consumer Transaction Facilitators"
Oh and I continue to be amazed by the improvements in security theater. Got stopped at Dulles yesterday because my ID was cracked. However figuring this out took a little while because the initial license examiner person didn't speak English and couldn't explain it to me. Now THAT delayed the line.
GOOD JOB TSA!!! (sorry not up to translating that tonight)
May 14, 2008 10:27 PM
Why is it the following scenario seems to be more common than not? There are four or more X-ray machines intended to scan your carry-on luggage, but only one or two are in operation. There are two or three metal detectors for people to walk through but only one or two are in operation. Add the fact that, people will be in line waiting to put their luggage through the machine and you can see the problem. Now add the fact that the x-ray machine operator will see something and stop the machine while he goes to check the bag. The person controlling the flow of people through the metal detector then stops that line since the luggage flow has stopped. It seems the entire process is run by two people: the person operating the X-ray machine and the person controlling the metal detector. All this while quite a few TSA employees are standing around behind the security machines talking, doing nothing. Someone recently told me that TSA really stands for Thousands Standing Around. I'm starting to believe him. Come on TSA - open all of your machines. Use some common sense
May 14, 2008 10:33 PM
Here is a fun read by one of the TSA's finest.
Confessions of a TSA Agent
Fall in lock-step citizen.
If the TSA wants to know why they are hated all they have to do is read the article and see what kind of self righteous attitude we face.
May 15, 2008 3:19 AM
anonymous said at May 13, 2008 8:23 AM
Instead have a single feeder line to all screening checkpoints. The next person in line goes to the next open screening line. This means if I'm #27 in line I will be the 27th person to be screened. This also means any one or two slow people will not impede the progress of an entire line.
Another advantage of this would be luggage flowing through the X-Ray machine won't be backing up. behind the machine while people move through faster than the luggage.
Also if I am the only person currently transiting a checkpoint there is less risk of my bags walking away without me.
---------
Sounds like a great idea . . . why not do this?
May 15, 2008 3:32 AM
Kip answers the 3-1-1 question in this interview.
Highlight:
Kip Hawley says "Screening ideas are indeed thought up by the Office for Annoying Air Travelers and vetted through the Directorate for Confusion and Complexity, and then we review them to insure that there are sufficient unintended irritating consequences so that the blogosphere is constantly fueled."
So Kip when are you going to let the Trollkiller interview you? I promise I will go easier on you than Congress does, I don't have to be re-elected.
May 15, 2008 5:04 AM
In Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff's world of an "Israelized" America, the terms SPOT (Screening Passengers by Observation Technique) and BDO (Behavior Detection Officer) are the new acronyms of Stasi-like control of the American citizenry by a government that treats anyone as a suspicious person in the same manner that Israel mistreats its own Arab citizens and Palestinians.
Sunday, this editor and his colleague faced the Chertoffian menace at Washington's Reagan National Airport while heading to the gate to board a flight to Houston.
It is now clear from a review of the events that unfolded that I was pre-selected for an intensive search and battery of questions even before arriving in line for the security screening. A Transportation Security Administration (TSA) screener was overheard saying, "the guy with the beard." Since I was the only person in line who also had a beard, it was evident that a red flag had earlier been raised.
What followed, was worse than anything I had previously encountered while leaving Tel Aviv's Ben Gurion Airport, itself a revolting display of ingratitude to citizens of the country that bankrolls Israel, or the Israeli-run screening process at Amsterdam's Schipol Airport.
First, I was instructed to enter a glass isolation chamber and point out my belongings that were exiting the X-ray machine. Anyone with claustrophobia would really enjoy being placed in such a chamber and have to speak to the screener through small holes in the glass.
I was then led to an area where all my carry-on bags were emptied. I was also forced to empty my pockets of everything. A bevy of screeners then proceeded to go through my wallet examining everything: cash, credit cards, VA medical benefits card, National Press Club card, voter's registration card, and driver's license. Then came an examination of my press credentials and related IDs: Investigative Reporters and Editors (IRE) card, Society of Professional Journalists card, National Archives research card, Library of Congress card, three press credentials, and membership card in Association for Intelligence Officers (AFIO).
In a blatant violation of the First and Fourth Amendments, my reporter's notebooks, containing names of contacts in Houston and around the world were paged through by the screeners. Another screener asked if I minded being probed in "certain private areas." He then asked if I'd like the examination to be conducted in private. I replied, "No, let everyone see this." He then proceeded to examine my groin area.
Then came the battery of questions.
1. Are you feeling okay?
2. Where are you going today?
3. How long will you be there?
4. Why are you going there?
5. What story are you covering/
6. Who do you write for?
7. When did you move to Washington?
8. Where did you live before that?
9. What did you do for a living before?
10. Who was the most famous person you ever met?
11. What was the most famous event you ever covered?
12. What type of things do you write about?
13. What type of politics do you cover?
14. What is your place of birth?
My colleague, who had successfully passed through screening and was waiting for me, was then asked to step into the holding area so she "could see and hear what was going on." It was a ruse. She was also subjected to a full carry-on bag examination, frisking, and a series of personal questions:
1, Are you with him?
2. Where are you going?
3. What is the purpose of your visit?
4. What story are you investigating?
5. How long were you in the US Air Force?
6. Where were you stationed overseas?
7. Why were you not overseas in the military?
8. When are you returning?
9. Who do you work for?
10. What is an independent journalist?
11. How long have you been working with him?
12. Do you find your job fulfilling?
13. What is your place of birth?
After this Gestapo-like of questioning, I was told that a TSA screener was writing details in a notebook for the "paperwork." My colleague was told TSA was going to file an "incident report."
The nature of WMR's coverage is that our sources are our lifeblood and anything done to compromise them is a direct attack on the freedom of the press and our rights as journalists. The notion of press freedom does not exist in Chertoff's worldview of police state tactics and total surveillance but his worldview is a distinctly un-American one, something that is more properly relegated to the history books of his ancestral Czarist Russia.
When our investigations take us beyond the Washington Beltway, it is not within Chertoff's purview to find out details about the purpose of the trip, even though it may shed an unwelcome light on his network of Mossad operatives and Russian-Israeli gangsters and scam artists who are now running rampant in these United States of America.
The antics at Washington Reagan National are not unique. Foreign journalists have been subjected to similar invasive screening either at US embassies when applying for the required journalist visas to visit the United States or at immigration screening at US entry points.
The corporate media will not report on these cases as they are part of the problem in allowing Chertoff and his American Gestapo to continue to turn the United States into one big West Bank-style checkpoint.
May 15, 2008 6:22 AM
The following is from a thread on FlyerTalk about the TSA’s reasons for shoe removal. In which thread on this blog does the TSA deny there are retaliatory screenings? The person who posted numbers 2 and 4 is a screener and the first part of his screen name is “Angry”
1:
from the TSA website
"why do i have to take off my shoes?
we can't see inside your shoes when they're on your feet. but our x-ray machines can get a good look when you take your shoes off."
2:
From a screener:
The official reason is I told you so. And the reason you will listen is that I have the authority to give you directions at the checkpoint.
3:
Let me give you a direction; bookmark this post. Just in case you ever wonder why so many people despise the TSA.
4.
Let me clue you in. I don't care what you think. You are going to do what you are told like everyone else.
And if you get mouthy with me, I will put you in my time out box.
Will you have the fortitude to post this?
May 15, 2008 8:13 AM
Here's an interesting article on cleaning up the no-fly list.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/15/opinion/15thu3.html?_r=1&th&emc=th&oref=slogin
I agree that it should not be the individual flyer's problem to clean up the list -- the DHS needs to step up to the plate and solve the underlying problems. Putting the pain and consequences of their mistakes on the flying public is part of the reason the TSA is held in such low esteem.
May 15, 2008 8:22 AM
I, for one, think the elite lines should be expanded to all airports.
Why? Because, in the end, the elite flyers are contributing more to the government & the airport trust fund than others. In addition, as frequent travelers, they are typically faster and less likely to hold up the line. Queue management theory can be used to show that it's much more efficient to process those who take less time by using a faster method.
To those who say "I pay my 9/11 fee just like everyone else, so everyone must be treated the same".... the security fee doesn't cover but a small fraction of the cost of running the TSA. The rest comes from general taxes (including the airline ticket taxes, meaning that those who pay a higher ticket price or travel more frequently contribute MORE to the system). Further, moneys that go the the aviation trust fund are used, among other things, to provide grants to improve airport facilities (including the area of the terminal building that houses security). Trust fund revenues come from ticket taxes, again meaning that the higher level flyer contributes more.
With respect to time delays, processing the more experienced flyer (as determined by STATUS, not "I think I'm an expert" of the diamond lanes) means they're less held up by the inexperienced folks - and the general line will move faster, too, by having less folks in it. I might add that the inadequate staffing and stupid "detailed ID checks" at many airports results in longer lines - so processing an elite flyer that has his papers in order means higher utilization of the x-ray and WTMD. Less wasted time for the higher level flyers is an economic benefit to the overall economy... and represents less of a burden to the TSA. Of course, if the TSA is trying to justify it's bloated budget, this argument will be shot down.
Finally, MANY State DMV operations have a separate window or line for car dealers that are experienced in processing/handling the forms (analogy to the experienced flyer)AND do a high volume of business (can you say "airline status"?). Most states do not charge any more for this window - it's the same price as everyone else. And in Virginia, the general public is segregated by the number and types of transactions - meaning that some folks go through a faster line. It has nothing to do with "how expert" a person is. The DMV has learned, unlike the TSA, that triage and segregation of customers is beneficial and leads to a better experience.
So, I can make a case that elite flyers are less of a burden on the system, contribute more money to the security operations, move faster, and increase utilization of resources. Thus, elite lines offer an economic benefit to all, and creating/leaving in place such lines is warranted.
On the other hand, the self-selecting "expert", "casual" and "family" lines have turned out to be a disaster everywhere I've encountered them.
TSA should be decreasing airport delays, not increasing them.
May 15, 2008 10:53 AM
The Anonymous Screener said on May 14, 2008 5:35 PM
Most of us buy shoes without metal shanks and remove the other metal that would cause us to alarm before walking through. If our shoes cause an alarm we must remove them just like you folks and clear.
I'd not mind removing my shoes everytime but don't see the need.
********************************
Which is exactly how most of the traveling public feels. Never expect others to do that which you are not willing to do yourself.
However, as your employer has just posted on its own website in response to this very question,
"We can't see inside your shoes when they're on your feet. but our x-ray machines can get a good look when you take your shoes off." So, if my 'airport friendly' shoes have to come off, so do yours (out of an abundance of caution, of course)
P.S. Blogger Bob-I noticed the TSA.Gov website it now trying to claim it is 'illegal to carry more than $10K in cash'-please provide the statute that outlaws this. Taking more than $10K in cash out of the country needs to be reported to the appropriate gov't agency (which is NOT the TSA, btw), but carrying more than $10K in cash is, by no means, illegal. Silly, stupid, & risky, yes, but not illegal. Telling fibs on the TSA website is not the way to win hearts & minds...
May 15, 2008 10:59 AM
trollkiller said:
(quote)
I will excuse TSOs, airline and airport personnel for jumping in line. I don't want my money paying for someone milking the clock. Let them get in and get to work.
(end quote)
I'm on the clock, too. I can't do business when I'm waiting in a 20+ minute line. Let me get in and find a place where I can set up my computer & wireless card and get to work (or where I can have a long private conversation on the phone). Or let me work a few minutes longer before heading to the airport.
MY opinion is that ALL employees, airline, fast-food/concession workers, and TSA employees should have to wait in the same line as everyone else.
Oh, you say give them special privileges? But wait, they ARE NOT paying the $5 security fee, even though they're presumed to be the same risk as everyone else. If, as others noted, everyone is equal, why should some be more equal than others? At least elite & first class flyers have paid the security fee.... as opposed to freeloading on the government.
But wait, you might say the airlines or airport are, in effect, paying for those employees to cut the line. Fine - then the same payments ought to cover elite flyers.
May 15, 2008 11:08 AM
Anonymous said...
I, for one, think the elite lines should be expanded to all airports.
Sorry, disagree. I am not an elite traveler yet I know exactly what to do to clear the security drama as fast as possible.
I carry no metal on my person, have my ID (as stupid as it is) ready and wear shoes that are quick to remove. I even have my kippie bag out and ready to go. I know the rules (if some TSO on a power trip hasn't changed them for that day) and comply with them.
The class of your ticket or airline status has no bearing on the security checkpoint. We both are equal at that point.
If 27 people are in line then each goes in turn. Simply!
The only ones who think your special is yourself and maybe the airline you fly most.
May 15, 2008 11:40 AM
Why are you filtering the messages so heavily?
May 15, 2008 12:03 PM
PS -
Also fix the darned URL thing, please.
May 15, 2008 12:03 PM
Well, well, well, either the TSA blog ate 2 posts this morning or someone did not like the links I posted.
Maybe the link to an interview by Kip that explains the 3-1-1 rule was considered off topic. No that can't be it as the question has been brought up already on this particular blob posting.
Maybe the link to the article written by a TSO explaining why they do what they do was unflattering enough to be considered off topic. Nope that can't be it as the topic is the whole point of this blog.
So I will stick strictly to the topic at hand, people being allowed to cut in line like this Police Chief. Seems if you are a LEO and you are heading out to give a paid lecture in Georgia you can get professional courtesy escort and bypass not only the line but the screening too.
Police Chief Colonel Dean M. Esserman of Providence Rhode Island demanded a police escort to be able to bypass the security line. According to him, he got a bit of a bonus on this day and was allowed to bypass security all together. Of course this only happened this one time. (sorry not buying it)
Why would a LEO, someone that is supposed to represent law and order be allowed to cut in line when on PRIVATE business? "Professional courtesy" is another way of saying "breaking the law". Rules and regulations are written for the "benefit" of everyone. They are to be followed by everyone. Should I be able to jump to the head of the line because my EGO says I am above the law?
When it comes down to it all this line skipping comes down to EGO.
This Police Chief's ego demands he gets special treatment, the First Class passenger's ego demands he gets special treatment, the politician's ego demands he gets special treatment and finally the TSO's ego demands he gets special treatment.
The TSA is designed for security, not egos. Get in line and wait your turn like the rest of us that are paying for the TSA.
May 15, 2008 2:22 PM
anonymous said at May 13, 2008 8:23 AM
"Instead have a single feeder line to all screening checkpoints. The next person in line goes to the next open screening line. This means if I'm #27 in line I will be the 27th person to be screened. This also means any one or two slow people will not impede the progress of an entire line.
Another advantage of this would be luggage flowing through the X-Ray machine won't be backing up. behind the machine while people move through faster than the luggage.
Also if I am the only person currently transiting a checkpoint there is less risk of my bags walking away without me."
anyone who has ever studied queuing theory knows that allowing people to choose their own lines is the slowest way to service a group of people. as anon suggested - having one long line with 10 checkpoint stations - is the most efficient way to do something like this.
by the way - disney is a master at queuing theory - i had a friend in college who worked for them for a summer (industrial engineer) and he spent days just timing and watching the lines so they could be made more efficient - maybe the tsa could do something similar?
May 15, 2008 2:24 PM
re: by the way - disney is a master at queuing theory - .....................
Discribe one thing that TSA is "master at".
See the problem?
May 15, 2008 2:51 PM
The true elite travellers use private planes and completely avoid all the TSA tedium.
May 15, 2008 3:33 PM
People who do not get on an airplane multiple times a week don't get it. The express lane for frequent travellers (and first class) are not there so we get less screening. They are there because us Executive Platinum fliers know the TSA rules and go through them 2 or more times a week. We are less likely to have contraband in our bags and our bags are organized so the TSA screeners can clearly see the electronic contents. So we rarely get stopped and our process through security goes that much faster because we know what we are doing.
The rest of the travelling public, which might fly once or twice a year, are oblivious to the rules. In airports where there are not separate lines I get stuck behind people who didn't know they couldn't take their hairspray in their carry on. Each time I have to go through one of those airports I cringe at having to mingle with people that don't know what they are doing. What do people think when it clearly says liquids in 3 ounce containers and they have 3 bottles of 750ml wine? Or some other combination of contraband like makeup, shaving cream, lip balm?
I'm sorry the rest of the travelling public sees this as something it is not (elitist). But until you get on a plane 2 or more times a week you don't understand. Every minute I'm standing in that security line is time I am not going to get back. Time I could be using to take care of business in the Admirals Club which I use to get away from the rest of the travelling public.
May 15, 2008 3:47 PM
As much as I like the idea of the self select ski run inspired lines I had a major issue with them at CVG. While traveling with only a purse and a light jacket I was forced by the TSA into the Casual Traveler line behind 2 ladies with 2 suitcases and 6 gray tubs. The only people that were allowed into the Frequent Traveler line were men in suits. So I spent 15 minutes waiting for these 2 ladies to get everything unpacked while I stood there with everything in a tub waiting to get through. If this is really supposed to be self-select then why was I not allowed to self-select the Frequent Traveler line where I should have been?
May 15, 2008 4:15 PM
txrus said...
P.S. Blogger Bob-I noticed the TSA.Gov website it now trying to claim it is 'illegal to carry more than $10K in cash'-please provide the statute that outlaws this. Taking more than $10K in cash out of the country needs to be reported to the appropriate gov't agency (which is NOT the TSA, btw), but carrying more than $10K in cash is, by no means, illegal. Silly, stupid, & risky, yes, but not illegal. Telling fibs on the TSA website is not the way to win hearts & minds...
Where did the TSA post the over $10k lie?
All I found was the Custom's requirement for declaring the money if you are leaving the U.S.
May 15, 2008 7:08 PM
How often do you go to the airport and get in line at the checkpoint only to find that half of the machines are closed? And people wonder why there are long lines. If TSA can not (or will not) staff up enough to handle capacity - get someone who will.
May 16, 2008 2:19 AM
Trollkiller asked on May 15, 2008 7:08 PM
Where did the TSA post the over $10k lie?
All I found was the Custom's requirement for declaring the money if you are leaving the U.S.
**********************************
It WAS in the 'Why do I have to take off my shoes' section right beside the picture of the shoe w/the 'artfully concealed' cash (which is still there). Text yesterday, when I posted my comment, did include the 'illegal to carry more than $10K in cash' statement (evidence for the Kettle's of a 'big catch' courtesy of the War on Footwear), but now has disappeared, which I have no problem with as it shouldn't have been there to begin with.
Makes me wonder what other fibs are on their website, but it's Friday & I just don't have the energy to go looking.
May 16, 2008 11:00 AM
WOAH!
Thanks for the links Trollkiller.
Kip Hawley directly addressed a privacy concern, and flatly contradicted the bloggers in the article with the interview.
We do not now store images for the test phase (function disabled), and although we haven't officially resolved the issue, I fully understand the privacy argument and don't assume that we will store them if and when they're widely deployed.
They CAN> store images. They're just not doing it. The machines are capable, they just don't have that turned on.
May 16, 2008 12:59 PM
Hm, this gem from "Confessions of a TSO" as linked to by Trollkiller.
As a result of 9/11, the price to fly today will never, ever be the same. Flying is a privilege, not a right.
Actually, flying is a private transaction between a ticket purchaser and an airline. Freedom of travel, however, is a right. If the airline and I both agree that I can fly, then flying does become a right, not a privilege.
May 16, 2008 1:06 PM
Ayn R. Key said...
WOAH!
Thanks for the links Trollkiller.
Kip Hawley directly addressed a privacy concern, and flatly contradicted the bloggers in the article with the interview.
We do not now store images for the test phase (function disabled), and although we haven't officially resolved the issue, I fully understand the privacy argument and don't assume that we will store them if and when they're widely deployed.
They CAN> store images. They're just not doing it. The machines are capable, they just don't have that turned on.
The interview with Kip is from May and June 2007. Kip says he did not know at that time if the images would be saved or not if the devices were deployed.
In fairness the Bloggers have said that the image saving is disabled at the manufacturer and the end user has no way of turning it on.
I do know I could probably turn the image saving back on, but the TSO sitting in front of the machine most likely won't have enough alone time to do the same.
May 16, 2008 6:34 PM
Because the screener manning the WTMD turns it off when a fellow, fully-shod, screener goes thru so it won't alarm. Though, of course, the TSA calls this 're-calibrating' the machine. If you ever have the misfortune of being hip-checked out of the way by a screener, especially one on a coffee run as I was in BOS (see the 'Got Feedback' forum for futher details re: that) watch the top of the WTMD after the fully-shod screener goes thru & you'll see the MD screener fiddle w/a button on the top panel & then all the lights flash on & off as the machine re-sets itself. Neat trick, huh? But then, they, allegedly, get screened for real (or so they claim) when they start their shift &, as you pointed out, they've had their super special background checks, too (please note the sarcasm).
Are you kidding me? Those buttons don't turn it off. Have you noticed when they do that, they stick a little card, about the size of a credit card, into the machine? It just read numbers... more specifically, the numbers of passengers that have been through already. They NEVER turn the WTMD off for TSOs to walk through. I personally have alarmed a few times when I forgot to take my cell phone out of my pocket. And yes- we have to be screened just like everyone else.
May 17, 2008 1:32 PM
Yeah, the different security lanes make sense to me. All of our society is based on some degree of monetary valuation. If it's important to you, you spend more on it, if it's not, you spend less. Pretty basic concept, and at a macro level it's the social side of supply and demand.
From the practical point of view, anything to separate out the amateurs who were too lazy or illiterate to read all the signs, websites, articles, etc describing the security process. If I'm a frequent traveler, it's not egalitarian to make me wait for the corn-fed family of five in front of me to be told what to do (because they couldn't be bothered to prep in advance), it's just inefficient. Let's make it easier for competent people to move through efficiently.
May 17, 2008 2:42 PM
Trollkiller,
While I too doubt that the screener actually manning the screen will have the knowledge necessary to turn on the images, the fact that Kip admitted that the capability, although turned off, was there was a major revelation that undermines the TSA's case.
Because that means there are those within the TSA who do know how to turn them on, and once all our worries about these MMW machines are satisfied and we are no longer scared it is entirely likely the TSA would turn the image storing capability back on without telling us.
Because the machine with the capability turned off and the machine with the capability turned on look exactly alike, this really does mean these machines are degraded for the initial introduction with the option to upgrade to full capability later. Much like a Dilbert strip.
May 18, 2008 12:30 AM
1)The kind of additional lines I'd REALLY like to see exist are supermarket style. There should be one line for people with no carry on luggage whatsoever. There are plenty of business day travelers who do this. They have a book and shoes, maybe a coat, and that's it. There should be a second line for people who only have one item of the type that the airlines consider your "personal item" and then the traditional lines for people w/ multiple items carried on. This would stop the back log caused by waiting to get your shoes until they finish scanning all the stuff that the jerk in front of you really should have checked.
2)The bins should be stacked right past where boarding passes are checked BEFORE the xray lines. At least one traditional line should be a tableless line. This serves the function for elite travelers who already had all the stuff that needs to be seperated from their rolling bag out and just drop it in the bin and continue on through. No one who needs to stop and adjust things can use that line. That line must keep moving. If you stop you will be pushed to another line.
3) It absolutly should be the responsibility of the passenger to know the current restrictions. To that end the restrictions must be clearly worded and easily understandable. Not understandable in that we know why they exist (I don't expect the government to ever make sense) just understandable in that the less intelligent can follow the instructions. These restrictions should be displayed online AND as a recorded message reached by a 1-800 number. There could potentially be an argument to also employ a customer service agent 24 hours that can be reached after the recording or by instant messaging if someone STILL has questions. Was that commentor's snow globe example absurd? Yes. Of course. The rules are ridiculous. But travelers should be aware of these ridiculous rules. The kind of person who qualifies for the frequent flyer lines would have checked their snow globe. Or at least put it in a quart sized ziploc bag. ;D
May 18, 2008 3:27 AM
Ayn R. Key said...
Trollkiller,
While I too doubt that the screener actually manning the screen will have the knowledge necessary to turn on the images, the fact that Kip admitted that the capability, although turned off, was there was a major revelation that undermines the TSA's case.
Because that means there are those within the TSA who do know how to turn them on, and once all our worries about these MMW machines are satisfied and we are no longer scared it is entirely likely the TSA would turn the image storing capability back on without telling us.
Because the machine with the capability turned off and the machine with the capability turned on look exactly alike, this really does mean these machines are degraded for the initial introduction with the option to upgrade to full capability later. Much like a Dilbert strip.
I did not see that as a major revelation because Blogger Bob admitted the feature was disabled.
Blogger Bob said "While the equipment has the capability of collecting and storing an image, the image storage functions will be disabled by the manufacturer before the devices are placed in an airport and will not have the capability to be activated by operators."
Just to be clear when I used the words "end user" I was talking about the operator(s).
Now Ayn R. Key, you can't seriously be questioning the final intent of the TSA can you? You don't think they would ever save images do you? Did you not drink your Kool-aid today? It is full of vitamin Deceive?
Personally I WANT them to save the images. I want that evidence stored for use in my defense. Not saving the images is just another way of the TSA covering its butt.
This country's laws were created with the simple premise that you can confront your accuser and ALL the evidence against you.
Wouldn't the fact that the MMW allows the screener to "see" a gun, make the next search of that person a probable cause search? Being that the next search is a probable cause search, shouldn't that search be done by a LEO? And if the image is the trigger for a probable cause search should not the evidence be preserved?
May 18, 2008 5:31 AM
txrus said...
Trollkiller asked on May 15, 2008 7:08 PM
Where did the TSA post the over $10k lie?
All I found was the Custom's requirement for declaring the money if you are leaving the U.S.
**********************************
It WAS in the 'Why do I have to take off my shoes' section right beside the picture of the shoe w/the 'artfully concealed' cash (which is still there). Text yesterday, when I posted my comment, did include the 'illegal to carry more than $10K in cash' statement (evidence for the Kettle's of a 'big catch' courtesy of the War on Footwear), but now has disappeared, which I have no problem with as it shouldn't have been there to begin with.
Makes me wonder what other fibs are on their website, but it's Friday & I just don't have the energy to go looking.
The next time you see something like that be sure to do a screen capture. I don't mind a mistake being made but it does bug me they would fix it after you brought it up without so much as a "whoopsie".
To the TSA web site boss, please make sure that ALL your updates are proofed and anything pertaining to the law or regulation must be triple checked for accuracy.
I suggest you make a section for corrections. State what the original mistake was and what the correction is. Place a link to the corrected page.
This will do wonders to improve the perception Kip wants to cultivate that the TSA is transparent.
May 18, 2008 5:55 AM
Trollkiller,
My problem isn't with whether or not the images are saved. My problem is with the duplicity revealed by "they have the capability but it has been turned off" as the words from the top and "we can't save the images" as the front line verbiage. I have a problem with the inconsistency and the deceptive nature of the agency.
May 19, 2008 2:40 PM
My problem isn't with whether or not the images are saved. My problem is with the duplicity revealed by "they have the capability but it has been turned off" as the words from the top and "we can't save the images" as the front line verbiage. I have a problem with the inconsistency and the deceptive nature of the agency.
See, I'm almost willing to give TSA a break on this one. One way to look at the original quote by Hawley is malicious; he knew the capabilities of the machine, and deliberately chose to misrepresent them. Another way to look at it is much more generous; he's not a technical person, got briefed on the technology as it stood at the time, and then didn't understand (or didn't communicate well) the subtle difference between "can't save images" and "won't save images". (Not to mention the fact that the technology may have actually changed during development, perhaps making his quote completely accurate at the time he said it.)
I think this is a situation where applying Hanlon's Razor seems appropriate.
May 19, 2008 4:53 PM
Hi,
I am a 2x a week traveler. I'd like to suggest that instead of "self-selection" of screening lines it would be better to have screening lines based on the number of articles that need to be screened.
I check my baggage and only carry one small backpack and no liquids through security, yet I must wait for both the mom with 4 small kids AND the "road warrior" with 2 full-sized suitcases and a laptop case.
By differentiating between the number of bags instead of the self-determined traveling expertise of the traveler you would significantly speed throughput in the security lines and encourage travelers to pack more minimally or check baggage which would both increase security and air travel in general (waiting for people to load or gate-check their 3 bags onto commuter planes costs me over 3 hours a week and must cost the industry a fortune).
Thanks
May 19, 2008 8:40 PM
Jim Huggins said...
I think this is a situation where applying Hanlon's Razor seems appropriate.
I must be old, I knew Heinlein's quote but had never heard Hanlon's quote.
Personally I like the British version.
May 20, 2008 2:27 AM
Trollkiller suggested on May 18, 2008 5:55
The next time you see something like that be sure to do a screen capture. I don't mind a mistake being made but it does bug me they would fix it after you brought it up without so much as a "whoopsie".
*********************************
So noted, Trollkiller.
However, the more I think about it, the more I question why the TSA even has that picture up there in the first place, regardless of the text w/it. As we've established, there is no law that prohibits the carrying of cash, in any quantity, therefore, how can one 'artfully conceal' that which is not prohibited in the first place? (Unless, of course, you are simply trying to justify the 'War on Footwear' to the Flying Kettles). Yes, if traveling out of the country w/more than $10K in cash, it must be declared to Customs, but even then, it doesn't matter how one chooses to carry said declared cash.
May 20, 2008 10:51 AM
The idea of counting the number of bags rather than self-selecting based on "experience" is interesting; it's clearly an objective standard. But a part of me wonders if this is workable, considering that (I think) virtually all airlines restrict carry-ons to one-plus-a-personal-item. So, realistically, there are only two possibilities: one or two items ... which doesn't give you much differentiation.
The frequent-flyer model certainly has some appeal, in that there is some correlation between frequently flying and packing efficiently. As others have noted, though, it's not perfect, and it smacks of elitism in some eyes.
I know this is completely impractical ... but the idea that comes to mind is a coupon system. If you get through the checkpoint "efficiently" (everything well packed, 3-1-1 bag out, metal out of pockets, etc.), you get a coupon which lets you jump into the fast lane on your next trip. In principle, you'd earn one coupon each time you used one, so you'd be able to stay in the fast lane as long as your behavior merited. Of course, keeping track of zillions of coupons is completely impractical, so there's no way you could actually do this ...
May 20, 2008 1:48 PM
I don't mind the idea of frequent flyers / elite travelers getting through security faster under the presumption that they do it more often than others. However, I do have a problem with the idea that first class passengers get through faster. We're all paying the same $10 security fee on our ticket. The airlines are making more money frm the first class passengers, but TSA is not, TSA is a government agency and should provides services to all taxpayers equally.
We'd be really annoyed if speeding tickets were processed faster for people in luxury cars than junkers. I don't see how this is any different..
May 21, 2008 3:38 PM
I work for TSA and found out that American Airlines controls the line. At one point there were more first class passengers than coach, so the line was changed to one lane. It didn't take long for an American Airline Manager to change the line back. Just food for thought.
May 21, 2008 10:20 PM
Anonymous said...
I work for TSA and found out that American Airlines controls the line. At one point there were more first class passengers than coach, so the line was changed to one lane. It didn't take long for an American Airline Manager to change the line back. Just food for thought.
So how does that make you feel? Does it bother you to know that you are being used by a private company as a "value added" service?
Or does it bug you to think that you are competent enough to stop terrorists but are not competent enough to control a line?
May 22, 2008 1:07 PM
re: I work for TSA and found out that American Airlines controls the line.
...................................
The kind folks a AA just screwed you TSO's with their new bag charge.
Enjoy!
May 22, 2008 10:52 PM
Every Troll's Worst Nightmare wrote:
Or does it bug you to think that you are competent enough to stop terrorists but are not competent enough to control a line?
Not much to do with competency. At Huntsville, no one controls the line. There is a line, but it exists only on the foundation that reasonable people understand that they go through one at a time. We're directed by our superiors that the line isn't our responsibility, and that we have no functional control over it - if someone wants to move to the front of the line (such as they decided to show up at the airport ten minutes before their flight), we have to tell them that they can, but only under the good graces of their fellow line companions.
Strictly speaking, I suppose it could devolve into something akin to 'lines' in China pre-Olympic syndrome: the elbow-throwing pressing throngs of humanity trying to get in. We'd probably call public safety to provide crowd control at that point.
Anonymous wrote:
The kind folks a AA just screwed you TSO's with their new bag charge.
Enjoy!
Oh, my god, yes. We were tossing that around yesterday, trying to imagine how heavily-packed carry-on items will be, and how everyone will be bringing everything they possibly can in through carry-on now.
It's not a pleasant thought. :(
May 23, 2008 11:17 AM
As a frequent flier with "elite" status, I voluntarily use the "regular" line - I think the classist system is horrible, and refuse to participate.
(As an aside, the very concept of "elite status" troubles me.)
May 23, 2008 11:52 AM
HSVTSO Dean said...
Oh, my god, yes. We were tossing that around yesterday, trying to imagine how heavily-packed carry-on items will be, and how everyone will be bringing everything they possibly can in through carry-on now.
It's not a pleasant thought. :(
My suggestion to all the TSOs being subjected to the extra burden by American Airlines or any other carrier that imposes a similar fee is this; as long as it is not contraband let it through. If someone brings a 5 foot duffel bag stuffed to the hilt, let it through.
No matter how big and bulky the item is let AA deal with it when the passenger arrives at the terminal. After all your job is to search for threats, not to enforce AA's carry on size requirements.
If AA personnel come to you and ask you to stop the duffel bags, tell them that you work for the American people and NOT American Airlines. This is one time a snarky attitude and rudeness is allowable.
Let us know how it goes. I think this is the one time the traveling public has your back.
May 24, 2008 9:00 PM
Anonymous said...
re: I work for TSA and found out that American Airlines controls the line.
...................................
The kind folks a AA just screwed you TSO's with their new bag charge.
Enjoy!
Just another thought- Now that AA has made the decision about the baggage rules...the passenger wait time will go up and now the business traveler will be waiting much longer...
May 26, 2008 8:46 PM
Anonymous said...
People who do not get on an airplane multiple times a week don't get it. The express lane for frequent travellers (and first class) are not there so we get less screening. They are there because us Executive Platinum fliers know the TSA rules and go through them 2 or more times a week. We are less likely to have contraband in our bags and our bags are organized so the TSA screeners can clearly see the electronic contents. So we rarely get stopped and our process through security goes that much faster because we know what we are doing.
The rest of the travelling public, which might fly once or twice a year, are oblivious to the rules. In airports where there are not separate lines I get stuck behind people who didn't know they couldn't take their hairspray in their carry on. Each time I have to go through one of those airports I cringe at having to mingle with people that don't know what they are doing. What do people think when it clearly says liquids in 3 ounce containers and they have 3 bottles of 750ml wine? Or some other combination of contraband like makeup, shaving cream, lip balm?
I'm sorry the rest of the travelling public sees this as something it is not (elitist). But until you get on a plane 2 or more times a week you don't understand. Every minute I'm standing in that security line is time I am not going to get back. Time I could be using to take care of business in the Admirals Club which I use to get away from the rest of the travelling public.
The sheer arrogance of this statement amazes me.... do they really believe that just because they fly a measly twice a week they should have some sort of special status? I just got through with an extended business trip in the US that required me to travel on average 4 times a week, sometimes even 5 or 6 times a week. I didn't fly first class since that is something of a unnecessary expense and I don't particularly care anyway. However, I know the security routine just as well as any "gold platinum silver" or whatever other precious metal-type flier. I generally have one carry on item, with the laptop out and nothing in my pockets and my shoes off even before I get past the ID check. Do they seriously think they are the only ones losing time standing in line?
If they really believe they are entitled to something better than everyone else they really should just be chartering a private plane.
What they seem to be missing is the idea that elite lines do not really help to decrease the GENERAL amount of time spent in lines. Airlines might be concerned about how much time elite passengers spend in line, but the TSA shouldn't be. The TSA should be concerned about how long everyone spends in line because the more efficiently they can process people, the faster the lines will move. I've read some pretty good ideas on this thread and I myself don't really have a problem with the TSA (at least no more than any other government agency).
Some of the ideas I think are pretty viable and would definitely increase the flow would be:
1) The designation of a family/people needing assistance line. This line doesn't necessarily have to be reserved only for families and others needing assistance (e.g. people in wheelchairs or other people who need assistance walking) however it would be the default line for people in those categories.
2) Do the same thing with airport staff and TSOs. Have a designated lane for them, it doesn't have to cater only to them, but it can help speed things up by putting people who may go through this everyday in the same line.
3) The removal of the ID check. As mentioned previously, the 9/11 terrorists all had proper ID. I think that if terrorists want to strike again, they'll use proper ID the next time too.
4) Removal of the 3.4-1-1 rule. That just seems to be inane and pointless. If there is solid scientific evidence to back up this policy, that's one thing. But like other people, I haven't seen anything that suggests the evidence is there.
5) The plastic tag idea for already scanned bags is a great idea in my opinion. Something I haven't seen in the US (but may be in use) is something I encountered in Hong Kong, where I put my bag in a numbered bin and am given a corresponding piece of plastic with that number, after the bag and I are scanned, I hand the plastic back to one of the TSOs and they let me take my things. This greatly reduces theft as well as accidents (such as taking the wrong bag).
6) Give control of the lines to the TSA. I know this probably won't be a popular idea, but given that the airlines aren't very competent and even if they are, they are nothing if not a little biased towards their passengers. It seems to be that giving the TSA control of the lines would be the lesser of two evils.
7) I also like the single feeder line idea. Allow the TSOs to deal with one passenger and their baggage at a time and cut out any sort of problems with people taking too long to unload things and keep people behind them waiting. I think the first two ideas would be easier to convince the TSA to implement, but this idea might speed things up more and allow for better screening.
These are just some of my ideas (or at least others' ideas that I support).
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
May 27, 2008 3:46 AM
NexttimeIlljustwalk :
Then Just Walk, more room in line for the rest of us. If you really travelled you would have the miles to be a metal.And you would cut the line-human nature
May 27, 2008 10:51 AM
I guess you didn't get it, my name isn't a reference to preferring to walk rather than flying, rather it's a reference to the fact that maybe walking will get me there faster because of the security lines. Just because I fly a lot sometimes doesn't mean I fly constantly. And since I usually have to fly a number (my last trip involved 5) of different airlines to get to the places I need to go, racking up flier miles becomes more of an accounting practice than anything else. Not to mention the fact that most miles expire after a certain amount of time. I was merely pointing out that not just airline club members (as the post I quoted suggested) know the security routine.
Unless you haven't noticed though, the point of this thread isn't whether I fly enough to get a membership with whatever airline, but whether or not the first class lines either help or hurt the security process as a whole. I obviously believe it doesn't help and actively makes things worse. The most basic argument that I've heard in defense of the elite lines is that "elite" fliers obviously know the security system better than "casual" fliers. This seems to be to be a faulty premise in that anyone, regardless of their traveling experience, can buy a first class ticket and go through the quicker lines. If you could somehow determine everyone who knew what they were doing at airport security, then I would have no problem with an "experienced flier" lane only for people who knew to take their keys out of their pockets and that laptops have to go through by themselves. But since first class lines aren't based on whether you fly a lot, but whether you ponied up the money for a higher priced ticket, then I'm against the idea. Although I will concede that a large number of first class fliers are frequent fliers, this by no means shows that all first class fliers are experienced and or that being in first class gives you some sort of mystic security line knowledge.
Another problem that occurred to me after I posted last time is that first class lines, being a product of the airlines, don't take into account whether or not it is cost effective (in terms of money, time, or manpower). I tend to think that since the TSA is the one paying the TSO to sit there while for the most part, from my observations, the first class line is empty then perhaps it is a waste of resources to have the first class line as well.
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
May 28, 2008 5:02 AM
Kansai Int'l in Osaka, Narita in Tokyo, and all airports where the immigration people use their brains have one, single "feeder line" that goes empties at the point where all the immigration windows are lined-up. When the next officer/window becomes available, the next person in line goes over to it.
It's absolutely astounding that the sense and efficiency of this appears to be utterly lost on the decision-makers at TSA and/or individual airports.
I would just love to travel 'round the world for a week or two with a TSA official/decision-maker, and let them compare our system with others. I would hope that they'd be shamed into making things better here.
Note: the TSA officers are, more or less pretty polite. The *airport* and *airline* employees, on the other hand, are to a person the largest group of surly, cranky, mad-at-the-word I've ever encountered. I wish that *their* managers would bother to look at how those employees' counterparts in airports 'round the world behave. I'm so embarrassed as an American to see U.S. airport and airline employees barking orders and slouching about around the immigration, customs and security areas - totally flumoxing and humiliating travelers from other countries who've just gotten off 8-13 hour flights and have a limited, if any, command of English.
May 29, 2008 10:15 AM
Trollkiller wrote:
My suggestion to all the TSOs being subjected to the extra burden by American Airlines or any other carrier that imposes a similar fee is this; as long as it is not contraband let it through. If someone brings a 5 foot duffel bag stuffed to the hilt, let it through.
No matter how big and bulky the item is let AA deal with it when the passenger arrives at the terminal. After all your job is to search for threats, not to enforce AA's carry on size requirements.
If AA personnel come to you and ask you to stop the duffel bags, tell them that you work for the American people and NOT American Airlines. This is one time a snarky attitude and rudeness is allowable.
Let us know how it goes. I think this is the one time the traveling public has your back.
Obviously I can't speak for everyone who works at whatever airport, but in as far as Huntsville, Alabama is concerned - that's already how we do things.
Management and the Federal Security Director here have long had the stance that airline business is airline business, and TSA business is TSA business — and we don't get involved with airline business.
People already carry enormous bags through the checkpoint to attempt to carry them on (or, most likely, to gate-check them). After they're screened, we send them off with a pleasant adieu.
As you pointed out, it's not the TSA's business to stop oversized carry-ons, or excessive amounts of them. We just screen them for threats.
The problem, however, arises when they do start stuffing them full of everything imaginable under the sun. It's not so much a size issue that we at the checkpoint care about, but the fact that cluttered bags play hell on x-ray efficiency, and lead to more time-consuming bag checks.
Such is life, though. It is what it is, and what it is - is the job we're paid to do.
:)
May 30, 2008 11:25 AM
I'm going to have to agree very strongly with a previous commenter who gave 5 points that, if well addressed, would make a huge difference. They were:
1. Increase the number of TSO's present and Lanes open during peak hours. Maybe nobody should go on an unrelieved break?
2. Decrease the amount of time a passenger has to deal with the TSA. The less I have to put up with a drooling octopus oogling me the better.
3. Increase the privacy and security of a persons baggage throughout the system.
4. Decrease the amount of stress experienced by those passing through the system.
5. Provide postage-paid "mail it back" padded envelopes for things that people don't want to have to "surrender".
5. Fix/Eliminate the errors (human, procedural, software and hardware)in the system.
If those were fixed, I don't think that people would care so much about the annoyances of security. And, they wouldn't care so much about the rich folks that get to skate through without any hassle... maybe.
August 27, 2008 3:11 PM
We elite travelers don’t receive special screening. As a seasoned traveler we are a bit more knowledgeable about what is required when going thru screening. I know what to pack and what not too. I am familiar with what I need to remove during the screening process. Therefore I move thru the line much quicker than say someone who travels 2 to 3 times a year or a family of 4 with all of their bottles, Sippy cups and DVD players.
September 2, 2008 12:25 PM
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