Welcome to

IBM Vermonters Chat With Senator Patrick Leahy

As employers in other states have chosen to change or amend their pension programs, basic issues of fairness, information and clear communication have come to the fore. Because IBM has recently decided to move to a cash balance system, I have done all I can to follow the implications of this change for Vermonters. I have met with Vermont IBMers and cosponsored and helped advance legislation that relates to this change. I also will continue to do everything possible to make sure that Vermonters' concerns are conveyed directly to the company's top decisionmakers. This online chat is part of this overall effort, and I welcome this opportunity to hear directly from you.

Transcript of Chat:

[allen] hello everyone

[BTV_BITES] Hi Allen!

[dogbert] Works ok for me

[allen] hi bites

[Lou-ser] Hello everyone!

[40something] Anyone know anything about the letter the Senators sent to the IRS to investigate the pension change ?

[allen] hello lou-ser

[BTV_BITES] I assume there will be a notice when senator Leahy is ready... Right Paul?

[calvin1] My 2 cents: I'd like full disclosure from employers when benefits are changed. No limiting info and calling it an improvement.

[LukeAlbee] Hello. I am senator leahy's chief of staff, luke albee. sen.leahy is voting and will be back here shortly.

[John Mendes] hello everyone

[Jim1] Test

[BTV_BITES] Thanks Luke!

[Jim1] Greetings

[BTV_BITES] Hi John... Good to see you!

[RonB] Does anyone think that IBM will back down because of the publicity?

[stuckinthemiddle] Howdy brothers and sisters

[calvin1] The stock price continues to go down, Any relationship?

[LukeAlbee] I will try to moderate this chat. Our experience has been that folks do the electronic equivelent of raising their hands. I will then ask you to ask sen. leahy a question, and then the fur will fly.k

[EssexPCSup] Good evening

[dogbert] IBM won't back down. It is time to put up or shut up.

[Jim1] Another point - there should be some limit on pension estimate disparities.

[Lou-ser] NEGATIVE! Lou has proved this in the past.

[BTV_BITES] What's the "Raise your hand" sign?

[Roger] Hello everyone... the chat room seems to be growing.

[Grace] IBM's retirement plan changed from a guaranteed annuity at any age after 30 years of service. The new plan only valued this at age 65 brought back to present value with an arbitrary 6% rate vs the 30 yr bond rate of 5.25% for 1999. Why is this legal?

[John Mendes] I think I have about used up all of the different forms of media now to convey our message.

[LukeAlbee] It will also help if you let us know where in VT you are from -- I don't know if there will be 20 people on this or 200. all can watch, but i think we want to limit questins to vermonters.

[allen] swanton here

[EssexPCSup] Has Lou answered any letters?

[BTV_BITES] I am from vermont... (for the record!)

[Lou-ser] Essex Junction here

[calvin1] From Essex, VT

[rjm] Luke - I'm from South Hero

[marie] jericho vt here

[dogbert] Richmond,VT

[Jim1] Williston, Vt,, here.

[BTV_BITES] okay... St. George Vermont!

[John Mendes] Burlington

[Mary] Underhill here

[LukeAlbee] we are finishing up the ag appropriatins bill tonight. we offerered the dairy compact earlier today -- got 53 votes -- but needed 60 to break a filibuter by the misguided sens fromn wisconsin

[EssexPCSup] Jeffersonville

[Grace] from Essex Vt

[TOM] of course Fairfax

[Roger] Milton here

[Fraser] St. Albans with 23 years of service...

[stuckinthemiddle] milton 22 years

[RJ] RJ-Winnooski w/ 17+ years with company

[Jim1] I want to thank the Senator for his efforts on all our behalf.

[Mary] People who have a choice do not have access to the same online web-based calculator tool that the auto-cash balanced people are forced to use. Are the two calculators equivalent? If so why can't we use either one?

[stuckinthemiddle] Do we all agree we where hosed?

[EssexPCSup] Absolutely thanks are in order

[calvin1] Since when are mid-career employees at 40% of the population insignificant?

[LukeAlbee] Why don't we start lining up folks to ask sen. leahy -- who i will call PJL -- so i don't have to type so much. If, say, Roger has a question, he should just write that he has a question. then i will call on him and pjl will respond.:

[Fraser] Does Sen. Leahy know HOW BAD these changes will effect us ??

[dissapointed] Washington county 19years as Loyal IBMer

[LukeAlbee] pjl has just arrived back in his office and is now booting up.i

[Jim1] I'm 21 years with a loss of about 35%

[TOM] Mr. Leahy... help us

[EssexPCSup] The worst part is that exexutives get a windfall of stock options

[stuckinthemiddle] Iyeah, i thinks they want us to contrib more to social security by working longer dieing sooner

[rjm] I have a question.

[RJ] Not sure what I've lost as IBM removed estimator and did not supply data for analysis

[malcontent] Has the Senator made an appearence?

[depressed]

[depressed ] st.albans vt.

[Grace] please ask PJL my previous question

[Grace] I agree with Jim

[EssexPCSup] The population is younger due to LAYOFFS

[40something] Franklin County, and yes I have a question

[LukeAlbee] he is just getting hooked up.

[17yearsin] Essex Junction. My husband and I each have 17 years with IBM

[Sen_Leahy] Hi, I just got off the floor where we were voting on the farm bill. Want to welcome you here and glad many of you could join me on Monday in my office.

[Mary] LukeA - I have a question for PLJ also

[17yearsin] We estimate 40% loss in benefits

[LukeAlbee] let's start with 40 somethinhg

[stuckinthemiddle] i have a recently run estimator that i used, it does not cover my lost health care

[RJ] Good evening Senator

[BTV_BITES] Evening senator! Thanks for comming!!!!!!!

[EssexPCSup] thanks PLJ

[17yearsin] Thank you, Senator, for trying to help us.

[malcontent] Welcome Senator.

[LukeAlbee] mary, you can fire away too

[Roger] Senator... In your view, can the "new kinder and gentler IRS" be an effective agency in getting IBM to reconsider it's recent changes in pensions? Does IBM need their approval? ...Roger

[stuckinthemiddle] Hello Senator Leahy and thank you for your time

[Sen_Leahy] And I apologize in advance for typos - I do my own typing

[BTV_BITES] I have a question when your ready...

[calvin1] PJL, Can Employers be required to provide the whole truth when "updating" benefits?

[LukeAlbee] he is answering roger now

[Sen_Leahy] IRS needs to give them a determination letter I am advised. We are contacting the IRS to find out their proper role.

[Jim1] Can IRS approvals be suspended until the this new conversion abuse can be legally addressed?

[unhappy] yes I just want to say I have 24 years with ibm and ive seen many things happened but this takes it all I really do believe that they have gone to far on this one please help us if you can

[RJ] Do you agree with Rep. Sanders that there might be possible age discrimination?

[Mary] Sir, I was hired on the same requisition as one of my department members 17 years ago (two offers went out and we both accepted). I started one month before he did - he has a choice of old vs new pension plan because he is >50 years old. I am stuck with the new cash balance plan ONLY because of my youth. Do age discrimination laws apply here?

[stuckinthemiddle] Mr Leahy, How can the Federal Goverment let them get away with this??

[LukeAlbee] he is now responding to calvin

[Sen_Leahy] Calvin I have co-sponsored legilation with Sen Moynihan to require the disclosure you are talking about. We hope it will pass.

[malcontent] Senator, When do you anticipate having your conversation with Lou Gerstner? Will we get minutes from that?

[calvin1] Thank you. I'm tired of benefit decreases being called "improvements"

[Sen_Leahy] Cong Sanders has raised the age discrimination issue and he will share with me and you the answers he gets.

[Timbobo] Good Evening, Senator. I have 18 ys with IBM

[stuckinthemiddle] Mr Leahy, Other companies gave thier dedicated employess a choice, Is thier any hope for us? IBM hasn't put a silver nickle into the retirement fund since 1995

[Poorman] will your legislation be retroactive?

[BTV_BITES] How come Canadian IBM employees all recieved a choice between the old and the new pension plans regardless of seniority while IBM US employess do not? Do Canadian laws protect workers rights better than American laws?

[Sen_Leahy] I wanted to have my meeting with you on Monday in burlington and this chat before I called Mr. Gerstner. Wanted to hear your side and I appreciate the info I have been getting.

[Timbobo] US law is not as fair to workers as Canadian

[Sen_Leahy] Canadian law appears to have protected their employees better than US law does.

[Lou-ser] The next "improvement" will be the elimination of our TP Compensation! Anyone agree?

[Sen_Leahy] Timbobo you are right

[RJ] Personally I'd like to see legislation protecting vested employees from retirement plan changes unless change is a def. improvement

[40something] Honorable Senator Leahy and fello IBM employees.

[BTV_BITES] IBM admits that ".... some older workers will be hurt by this conversion..." Why should ANYONE have to be hurt while IBM enjoys record profits not possible without our sacrifices through thier hard times!

[Timbobo] what is TP?

[Sen_Leahy] Poorman - the Moynihan legislation is retroactive to cover plans announced March 18.

[Jim1] Not to mention the vast surplus in the pension trust.

[Fraser] Senator Leahy.. People with 25 yrs and less are losing anywhere from 40 to 50% of their pension.

[calvin1] Other benefits have gone away slyly, differed vacation days aren't tracked any longer; thus they don't exist.

[John Mendes] Cash Balance plans have been around since late eighties, why has it taken so long for Congress to address this issue? IBM is not the first to "steal" from the pension fund.

[Lou-ser] Our yearly "profit sharing"

[Sen_Leahy] I like the way Eastman Kodak and Motorola gave their employees a choice.

[stuckinthemiddle] Mr Leahy, I had sent you a letter expressing my concern and wanted to thank you for your response. I think we are all timid given the head rolling ,surplussing,vendering,etc. T%his guy at the top is relentless. We truley need your surport

[Jim1] We also need tax laws structured as a dis-insentive for these conversions unless they are fair.

[LukeAlbee] pjl is typing faast and furiously and will try to take as many of these questins as they come. more free form than anicipated given the level of traffic.kt

[stuckinthemiddle] We should have been given a choice. What happened to Dr Watson's IBM?

[19YEARS] If there were laws to protect our pension and companies are finding loop holes around these, what laws protect our 401K plans?

[Fraser] we ALL should have a CHOICE of which plan to take...

[Timbobo] How is US congress going to protect older workers from becoming the 'retired poor'?

[23years] I would like to know where all the money that they are getting from this program is going since they are telling us that it went into salaries.

[Mary] Sen. Leahy: The general consensus has been that the change to cash balance plan is the first step towards IBM getting access to the large surplus in the pension fund. Could this be a first step toward a legal "pension radiding"?

[EssexPCSup] Respect for the individual is not a given anymore

[BTV_BITES] Good question Timbobo....Is the government prepared to assist the "Baby-Boomers" who will all be retiring very soon with no pension and very little savings?

[Jim1] The laws need to be updated to keep up with the new abuses that crop up.

[calvin1] What happened to the old IBM phrase: Respect for the individual.

[stuckinthemiddle] Make sure and note the loss of health care here. This could be a bigger issue

[Fraser] I would be worried about the 401K... they may find a way of getting that from us...

[bob] Certainly if this change is legal and moral, we could finance the whole republican tax cut by 'enhancing' federal and military pensions

[Sen_Leahy] The COngress has not been agressive enough in addressing these issues. Many thought a few years ago that workers should lose rights not gain them. I strongly disagree

[Poorman] I agree..All present employees should have a choice and roll in the new plan as new people come on board, since it was for them anyway

[dissapointed] Sir, They have now reduced my pension twice. What is to prevent them from reducing the cash balance amount in the future?

[17yearsin] Ah yes, "respect for the individual." That has gone the way of our other benefits.

[40something] As someone lucky enough to have the choice (had 25 years just before the cutoff) and having both sets of numbers available to me in the new and "improved" estimator IBM provided on line, let me share the following. IF I leave at 30 years the old plan is better. IF I leave at 35 years, the old plan is better. IF I leave at 36 years then the new plan catches up with the old plan at 36 years of service. The net here is that it will take 6 more years of service to get the same pension, not counting medical. So 6 extra years, or 20% longer service to IBM to get the same. Sounds like a 20% cut in pension this time. Don't forget they took 30% away in 95. They also took away the medical if you didn't make the 25 year or age 50 cutoff this time.

[RJ] Thank you Senator for agreeing that as time marches on things should improve

[Sen_Leahy] Disappointed - if we can't get the Harkin, Moynihan and Leahy legislation passed they can keep doiong this.

[Jim1] A key protection is the prohibition of conversions that result in "wear-away" periods.

[BTV_BITES] IBM saw to it that my salary did not rise at thier mis-stated rate of 4% so I could not properly save for retirement. No I fear they'll force me out due to longevity!

[RJ] I believe that when the lake level rises everyone's boat should rise, not just those at the top of the company

[dogbert] Senator .. I'm told that medical benefits are not protected like pension plans are. Is the government ready to support all of these retirees who will no longer have medical coverage provided by their employer?

[Timbobo] I think we are seeing more fallout from 'globalization' where captial will flow to areas of least cost.

[Timbobo] I think we are seeing more fallout from 'globalization' where captial will flow to areas of least cost.

[EssexPCSup] Who in Congress would vote against this and why?

[stuckinthemiddle] Mr Leahy, We really,REALLY need your help...

[Grace] PJL Please make it clear to Lou that it is one thing to reduce future benefits but is quite another to take away accrued benefits which haven't yet been paid.

[Sen_Leahy] The Federal government change its pension system ain the mid 80s and workers were given a choice. This seemed fair and NEW hires went under the new system. I don't find it fair to change the rules in midstream.

[19YEARS] Sir, is it true that IBM would have to pay a 50% tax on the excess monies in the retirement fund unless they get 95% of the people converted to the new plan? I'd say employess with a choice could be at risk in the near future.

[EssexPCSup] That's the next thing, what's going to happen to those of us using Kaiser Permamente?

[unhappy] you have to really get involved on this one because discrimination at that co. has been going for some time they really want us out 49 yrs old with 24 years service

[rjm] Senator Leahy - Since these changes affect so many Vermonters, and since we have met or will sonn meet with EVERY member of our congressional delegation, would it be possible to present a united voice to IBM?

[Timbobo] I asked Phil Webber, VP in HR to tell me personally what I lost and I have not heard yet

[Fraser] Mr Leahy... We ALL NEED YOUR HELP...

[BTV_BITES] Are there further possibilities down the road should the Harkin bill fail?

[Sen_Leahy] THe Senate is paying attention. When we brought up the Harkin-Leahy amendment last week we got 48 votes. We are within three of winning and we will keep trying.

[Jim1] I view a "wear-away" period as a loss as it pre-empts growth opportunity for that period of time.

[calvin1] pjl, Is there a list of senators who voted against the bill?

[19YEARS] It is not only age discrimination, it is misrepresentation on IBM's part.

[Sen_Leahy] RJM all the members of the delegation will talk about this. It wold be most effective if we present a unified voice but I intend to pursue it in any event.

[EssexPCSup] WHY did they vote against it?

[BTV_BITES] Is the government prepared to assist the "Baby-Boomers" who will all be retiring very soon with no pension and very little savings?

[dissapointed] Sir, i aggree with rjm. you have the unique ability to participate in a tri-partison effort to help your constituents.

[Timbobo] I can tell you all I talk to about this are really incensed.

[Sen_Leahy] Calvin if you call my office tomorrow we can get you a list of the vote. Call the office in Burlington

[LukeAlbee] senate votes are listed on Thomas at the library of congress web page. the harkin/leahy amendment was 1454

[calvin1] pjl, Thank you.

[Jim1] Senator, what are the prospects of temporarily suspending the IRS approvals on these conversions?

[Sen_Leahy] That's why Luke is here - he's better at getting info than I am!

[TOM] How many with the choice(now) will choose the "new" plan... I say NO ONE !

[dissapointed] Any legislature not actively supporting efforts to roll this back, the biggest financial issue in my life, will have me activly working against his re-election.

[Timbobo] The new plan is OK if level funded to old plan

[rjm] There are many more IBMers in New York than in Vermont. Could we pick up votes from there?

[17yearsin] The thing that hits home is that one by one, IBM has reneged on all that they promised. I watched my health benefits deteriorate (does anyone remember when they used to coordinate benefits when both spouses worked for IBM?), my salary has plateaued, the time between promotions has increased, and on and on. Five years ago, we moved to VT from the Hudson Valley after three years of fear of being downsized. When we were hit, we opted to relocate and stay with IBM, because we already had 12 years with the company and we wanted to stay. So, we relocated our family, and now we are losing the retirement benefits we were promised from the moment we signed all those papers the first day we walked in the IBM door. We thought we were well-covered for retirement, and so we planned our retirement savings believing we had a sound plan with IBM. Our children will be going to college soon...it will be very difficult to start putting away the kind of money we would have had we known our retirement benefits would be cut by more than half. This is reprehensible...

[stuckinthemiddle] Senator Sir, If Congress cannot reverse Uncle Lou's decision to buy his executives 200Million in stock options at the exspense of IBM's midterm employees retirement and health care, We are all very dissapointed with this.

[dogbert] Calvin, you can access the vote thru the web... start at httP;//www.ibmunion.com and follow the "cash pensions" URL and then access "gov. URL".

[LukeAlbee] i think we have all of ny and vt on tonight

[Sen_Leahy] there are so many comments coming thru that I am having trouble keeping up with them. I am very impressed with the constructive way all the employees are approaching this including a couple who talked with me in the grocery store in so. burlington this weekend.

[TOM] New plan---NO Medical---UNKNOWN cost to you at retirement

[rjm] I meant picking up the votes of NY's senators, or did thy both support the ammendment?

[LukeAlbee] for the record, pjl does not look at his hands when typing. the nuns taught him well.

[calvin2] I've lost my connection twice...

[BTV_BITES] IBM's old "Estimater" and the new "It's your Money" pension planning programs are out right lies with regards to future growth. I know of noone that get's a 4 percent pay increase per year as these programs would mis-lead you to believe!

[Sen_Leahy] That is probably why I make so many mistakes.

[John Mendes] Senator, what exactly will the harkin bill do for those who have had their pension reduced?

[LukeAlbee] we are getting bounced around a littl;e too .

[Timbobo] Senator, Congress needs to understand that this issue affecting solid middle class fols

[stuckinthemiddle] Senator Leahy, will you have a record of this chat?

[EssexPCSup] Did Lou answer Jefford's letter?

[Jim1] Senator, can we meet by the avocados this weekend? (:^)

[LukeAlbee] we will post this chat on our web page later.

[Timbobo] middle class folks who VOTE their pockets...and this is a HUGE pocket problem

[Sen_Leahy] Harkin prevents wearing a way of benefits and is retroactive

[EssexPCSup] Lou Gerstner couldn't even have the guts to meet here in Vt

[stuckinthemiddle] OH Boy Thats the one we need!!

[Fraser] With the response to this chat line tonite, Sen Leahy you must realize how much this effects everyone...

[BTV_BITES] Congress also must do something to prepare for the new "Lower class" citizens that would have been "Middle class" under the old plan?

[stuckinthemiddle] dont even think he will admit fault

[Sen_Leahy] Jim I will be in the grocery store this weekend - and than I get to spend some time with my family. Will be talking with a number of you while home i know.

[Grace] Where can we read the contents of the Harkin bill?

[andrewsdad] Hello, senator.. is there more than a snowball's chance in Hades that Harkin's bill will pass?

[LEM] I wish I could see the ol Estimater program and compare it against It's your Money to actually see the difference in the Benefits. That would problaby prove everything in what we're telling. Big Blue took that tool off-line in a real hurry so that we couldn't compare.

[17yearsin] Yes, it's the "changing in midstream" thing that is frustrating. We are human...how can we not feel betrayed? I just want to be treated fairly. I feel we all at least deserve that. They must really think we're stupid to think of this as another "improvement," and we are certainly not stupid. ALthough, I am starting to feel stupid for being so trusting.

[calvin2] HR tells us that the workforce has changed, yet provides no decent numerical analysis of this trend. Does this make sense for a computer company?

[LukeAlbee] the harkin bill is s. 1300 -- thomas poage at the library of congress

[19YEARS] Why would he , it is pretty hard to defend what has happened. It's over, let's get on with it. What a response.

[JR] Senator, did you know that Mr. Gerstner's retirement salary of 1.1 million at age 60 is protected?

[John Mendes] Senator, there are other bills in congress that oppose the pension information we are seeking and other features of the pensionnplan, is there a chance that these bills may pass?

[calvin2] HR fails to corelate changes to IBM actions, also. They play with the numbers and interpret as they please.

[BTV_BITES] The "Old" estimator program can be found at http://ibmpension.freeservers.com/cgi-bin/framed/3177/index.htm

[Fraser] I have the OLD estimator run vs the new one. The results are unreal

[Sen_Leahy] Harkin-Leahy got 48 out of the 100 Senators to vote for it.. We onlly need three more. We have to work as hard as possible in the remaing few months of the session

[BTV_BITES] When is s.1300 up for it's next attempt?

[andrewsdad] Thanks very much for your response, and for all you're doing for us!!!

[Sen_Leahy] John Mendes I find more of an interest in pension issues than I have seen in a long time. Part of this will revolve around negotiatins on the tax bill after the President vetoes it.

[23years] What can we do to help get the bill passed?

[rjm] FYI - A FREEPS reporter is lurking.

[Sen_Leahy] 23 years - you are doing a great job already! I am going to share this chat with other senators.

[EssexPCSup] yes, what can WE do?

[LukeAlbee] we love the free press. pjl just had to take a call from another senator. will be back in 1 minute.

[EssexPCSup] Will the freepress get a copy of this? Are they "here"

[rjm] I have no problem with the media lurking either, but I wanted people to know.

[LostMYcookies] test

[Sen_Leahy] I am back and to repeat I will put together a transcript of this chat and show other Senators how intense and real an issue it is to all of you.

[Timbobo] Aki Soga...are you out there?

[allen] I would like to thank the free press reporters

[LukeAlbee] we have put a link on our webpage, so anyone can join. and yes, we will post this on our webpage.

[LostMYcookies] it is the mid stream thing that bothers me the most

[Sen_Leahy] Lost - I could not agree more. I am 59 years old and I know how I would feel.

[BTV_BITES] Yes! Thanks you BURLINGTON FREE PRESS for your help! Keep up the presure!

[17yearsin] Yes, how can we help? What can we do to help you help us?

[Fraser] We need the Free Press to help us ....

[JNB] Any hope that Gerstner will meet with Leahy or Sanders?

[dogbert] Senator ... Please don't lose track that not only have we lost a large amount of money in our pensions but we've also lost our "lifetime" benefits!! The loss of benefits could add up to big money down the road and will be tough to plan for.

[Jim1] To emphasize - the implimentation of new pension plans for new employees does not require that the older employees convert.

[Sen_Leahy] I have followed the Free Press coverage every day. It has been very helpful.

[LostMYcookies] Senator do you expect lobbying against your bill from big businesses such as IBM?

[John Mendes] Senator, have you heard of ERIC? a lobbying group pushing for cash-balance plans?

[17yearsin] And help the others who will follow...I think Cong. Sanders said it in one of the meetings he held: that if IBM gets away with this, others will follow, and workers all over will go through what we are now. Actually, I think other companies have already started doing this. My dad sent me an article from the AARP magazine that mentioned that.

[Sen_Leahy] Now that I have heard from you I will call Mr. Gerstner.

[loug] Thanks for all your support Mr. Leahy, I have been with the company 21 years, and appreciate your support and concern. go get the cookie Monster for destroying my future!

[17yearsin] Jim1, I understand that, but there are so many of us that just miss being able to choose plans, close as we may be.

[rjm] Senator - I've spoken to Gov. Dean, and he has expressed his opinion that changing in midstream is wrong. Can you contact his office as part of any "united voice" effort?

[EssexPCSup] Do you think he will accept your call, Senator?

[BTV_BITES] Mr. Gerstner believes if he doesn't reply we will all just go away....

[Grace] Even those who have a so called choice are upset by such things as the employees choice is irrevocable but the company reserves the right to change the plan yet again at any time. But there are no plans to change it again this year if that is a consolation.

[c4design] Chase Manhatten Bank has a trust agreement with the IBM board of directors to administer the pension plan FYI

[Lou-ser] Not this time LOU!

[Sen_Leahy] I have been working with IBM for 25 years and have gotten them millions of dollars of federal contracts because I am so proud of the work IBM does. Because of this long involvement I am especially concerned and this is a priority of mine.

[Fraser] I hope MR.Gerstner will not get away with this..

[JNB] Mr Gerstner believes he can do anything he wants with a company built on the employees.

[LukeAlbee] we have 61 people on line -- a new on line chat record for us. had 26 kids from bennington once.

[TOM] Senator, We have been betrayed , I want to stay in Vermont, Please help us understand what we need to do to stop this injustice.

[BTV_BITES] It was rumoured to be said in the corporate halls that "all vermonters need is a six-pack and a mobile home to be happy!"

[calvin2] PJL, Could you ask why IBM has obviously changed their personnel policy of treating employees well to avoid Unions, to treating employees horibly?

[undoneone] Senator Phil Webber an IDM VP visited the site and admitted that the average employee will lose 7 to 12 percent and that in extreme cases up to 30 percent.

[Sen_Leahy] Tom I cannot tell you enough how important it is for you to speak out as you have . I will make sure your voices are heard.

[23years] It is very difficult after 23 years of planning to retire after 30 years and now I have to continue working to survive.

[Mary] Senator, IBM has expressed no interest in employee opinion on the pension change issue. Please ask Mr. Gerstner if he cares what his employees think about this change.

[Timbobo] Having all employees on cash balance opens the door on future 'resource' actions

[ncjerry] Senator I admire you for the stance you are taking, I only wish that I could vote for you as my IBM brothers in Vermont can, I am here because I feel that this change in retiremnet is truly immoral. I have 34 years with IBM so this change does not hurt me, but I want to share some information with you and others that may not have this type of information. I ran some comparisons on the old plans and the new cash balance. If i take the new cash balance plan and withdraw money at the same monthly rate as I would get with the old plan, assuming a gain of 7.5% and monthly withdrawals, the cash balance would run out in 8 years and 10 months. I am 55 years old so I think that either myself or my wife will be alive past the age of 63. I hope this information is a value to someone. Regards and I will help any way that I can.v

[calvin2] Centralizing HR in Raleigh was a terrible idea. THey spend late nights cooking up ideas to justify their existence.

[JNB] Senator, are you working with Sanders and Jeffords on this to raise a consistent voice for VTers?

[LEM] Senator; those federal contract were support by people like us. Not from the upper Big Blue guy's.

[17yearsin] When I studied WWII in college, the professor talked about Hitler and how he slowly, step by step, isolated and persecuted the minorities in Germany. Because it happened slowly, in a staged way, people didn't notice the big changes as much. We have let IBM slowly chip away at us for years without being able to make any changes. This is, unfortunately, the result. And it's not likely to stop here.

[admonere] There is a civil law suit open at NY State Supreme Court 10 Martin Luther King Jr Boulevard, White Plains NY docket # 98-02959. This case alleges tax evasion on a massive scale.

[stuckinthemiddle] IBM broke its promise, How do they expect us to be loyal?

[Timbobo] Lost...Yes..it IS

[JNB] I must say, now being over 40 has me wondering what they may do to me.

[Sen_Leahy] Lost my connection and questions here. Trying to get back

[stuckinthemiddle] Sen Sir, I did as well

[LukeAlbee] we have abolut 6 minutes to go.

[Sen_Leahy] I should pay my internet bill on time!

[allen] senstor do you really believe you can stop ibm from doing this

[LostMYcookies] sorry for the name folks but wife had turned off cookie option and couldn't get in

[JNB] I wonder about high tech!!!

[allen] senator

[Sen_Leahy] I am going back to the debate on the Senate floor in a few minutes but I hope if I don't get to all your points that you won't hesitate to send them to me.

[LostMYcookies] Senator as a reg user of the internet I would also like to thank you for your long support of the free speech on internet

[Timbobo] Senator, please be aware that this action forces more people into the stock market searching for returns that will help defray the difference. This is not sound sustainable investment growth with minimal risk.

[stuckinthemiddle] Please keep up the great work, We all need Jeffords so VT is united. I am told he will meet with some of us as well.

[19YEARS] How can IBM save 200 million per year in a fund they have not contributed since 1995? If it is administration cost, doesn't the new plan have administation cost? I have a gut feeling it is way more then 200 million dollars.

[betterlatethannever] JNB, I wish I was over 40. Because I'm not, I just found out I now have to work 36 years (rather than 30) to have any medical coverage after leaving. I've spent 20 years believing I could leave with medical coverage after 30 years. The only thins I did "wrong" was not to turn 40 by 7/1/99.

[Retired_N_96] What can be done to ensure that the Rretired Folks get to keep what they worked for?

[John Mendes] Senator Leahy, Thanks for the tremendous support you and your staff have demonstrated to us at IBM.

[loug] Senator, Are you planning on attending the Town Meeting at St. Michaels. We certainly could use all the support from everyone. August 17th???

[BTV_BITES] Senator.. You have not commented on the governments preparedness for the baby-boomers who retire without sufficient funds. In light of the problems with socail security and medicare what will happen?

[Timbobo] And thus will help inflate stocl prices of the very companies executing the cash balance conversions

[dissapointed] Sir, you may want to point out to Lou that E business works both ways. He has as i assume you realize a lot of very mad people. The big difference it that the web now gives people to organize and maintain anonymity. The prospect of a successful union organization effort is better then ever, and that is not ultimately in IBM stockholders best interests.

[Jim1] Senator, what role will alleged tax fraud investigations with IBM play in all this.(Mentioned in ibmpension club in yahoo. NY district)

[Sen_Leahy] You know I can't make any promises on a final result but you are petioning your government as you have a right to do and I work for you. I will do my level best. As a life long Vermonter that is the way I feel.

[stuckinthemiddle] Dont lose sight of the 46.5 bill sitting in the plan. The 200 mill is a detractor

[JNB] Yes, Please unite with Jeffords and Sanders for all VTers

[40something] As older posts seem to disappear, and as many new folks joined over the hour, I'd like to share this one more time. As someone lucky enough to have the choice (had 25 years just before the cutoff) and having both sets of numbers available to me in the new and "improved" estimator IBM provided on line, let me share the following. IF I leave at 30 years the old plan is better. IF I leave at 35 years, the old plan is better. IF I leave at 36 years then the new plan catches up with the old plan at 36 years of service. The net here is that it will take 6 more years of service to get the same pension, not counting medical. So 6 extra years, or 20% longer service to IBM to get the same. Sounds like a 20% cut in pension this time. Don't forget they took 30% away in 95. They also took away the medical if you didn't make the 25 year or age 50 cutoff this time.

[stuckinthemiddle] THANK YOU FOR YOUR SUPPORT!!

[Mary] Senator, thank-you for your time, concern and efforts!

[JNB] The stock-ops from this will only go to the top performers (execs).

[c4again] 1997 IBM annual report had $38.6 Billion in nplan and $82.5 Million in admin costs.

[Sen_Leahy] Thank you. I am going back to the Senate floor but i will post the whole transcript on my web page.

[stuckinthemiddle] We also need to unite as ibmers to have one consistance voice

[stuckinthemiddle] We also need to unite as ibmers to have one consistance voice

[Lou-ser] Thank you for listening!

[Jim1] Thank you Senator for your efforts.

[calvin2] Thank you Sen Leahy for your support.

[Sen_Leahy] I talked about some of you coming up to me when I am in the grocery store etc in Vermont - please keep doing that. It helps me to see you face to face and we can do another chat when the Senate comes back in in september.

[23years1] Thanks for your time!!!!

[BTV_BITES] Thank you senator!!! I appreciate your support!!

[JNB] Keep up the good work, senator!

[17yearsin] Please publicize any meetings...I missed several because I was out of town when it was in the paper. THank you, Senator, and thank you to all my fellow IBMers.

[marie] senator thank you for your support. YO greg lets go to Portland.....

[fisheye] .

[JR] Thank you Senator

[MarkH] Yes, Thank You for your support, Senator !!

[LukeAlbee] thanks everybody. we topped out at 68 folks tonight. pjl says he will do another one of these in september

[TOM] Many thanks to you Senator and your staff for all of your assistance in this essential life changing decision. What can we do?

[LostMYcookies] thank you Senator

[Mary] Luke - thanks for the admin. I hope we were better behaved than the 22 school children from Bennington. It's been a long time since we had to raise our hands....as you could tell.

[BTV_BITES] Thanks PaulM and LukeAlbee as well for assisting the senator to make this possible!!!!!

[stuckinthemiddle] Don't ever give up!

[LostMYcookies] On the lighter note Senator how about getting liquid manure banned. St. Albans is under siege

[c4again] dDo a web search on "Employee Retirement Income Security Act of 1974" especially note the NONdiscrimination part...

[Jim1] Thanks to all! Even the guy over there behind the curtain!