Katherine:  White is what your are designated by this race-constructed society.  When you walk into a bank or a store, do the staff say, "Here comes a nice Lebanese/Sicilian woman?"  No, they see you as white.  
   
  Everyone wants to be acknowledged and recognized for all that we are - for our ethnicity, culture, sexuality, gender, age, class.  And we should!  But we who are white also need to understand our historical and collective status  When we do that, then we can effectively join with others who have been collectivized (and made "less than") to transform these structures that dehumanize us all.
  Margery

Katherine <kgotthardt at comcast.net> wrote:
      Thank you everyone for your input!
   
  Problem is, I don't identify with being white.  I just look white. I'm about half Lebanese and half Sicilian.  And I've never been part of any mainstream anything.  So saying, "As a white woman..." feels unauthentic.
   
  Katherine Mercurio Gotthardt
www.luxuriouschoices.net 
    ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: margery freeman 
  To: The Poverty, Race,Women and Literacy Discussion List 
  Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 10:08 AM
  Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 1688] Re: Discussing DiversityandPowerIssuesforProfessional Development in Adult Literacy
  

  Andres & Katherine:
   
  Andres, Thank you so much for your excellent responses to Katherine's questions.  And Katherine, thank you for asking questions that many white people wonder but rarely ask.  Having an historical understanding of stereotyping - which as Andres rightly notes still continues - gives us insights into the chasm that racism has created among us.  
   
  I find that when I enter a conversation across racial lines, I am more effective when I first name my own place:  "As a white woman, I think..."   Perhaps another way to engage in cross-racial conversations is to begin with an "I statement" such as "I wonder why, as a white person, I have been taught to think of black skin as "more beautiful?"  This sort of self-reflection can often be a first step toward real conversations, I think.  
   
  Margery
  

Katherine <kgotthardt at comcast.net> wrote:
          Andres, Thank you for your explanation, which is probably less romantic than mine : )
   
  Marketing images of any kind of diversity has always seemed shallow to me....unless of course we are talking about authentic ethic stores or stores catering to ethnic groups (I'm talking about international food markets, clothing stores etc. not big advertising).  As a woman, I feel marketed to all the time, especially sexually.  I'm expected to look a certain way, act a certain way, and maintain a demeanor of acceptability.  We can get into that discussion easily enough, but I am trying to stay on track.
   
    I completely understand that racism is alive and well. So is sexism. I don't think I understood HOW alive and well it still is until I moved to this area (still considered southern, somehow). I personally try to be sensitive and considerate, but it's not easy not because I don't care for diversity, but because too often, I can't communicate properly.  Obviously, this is the common problem we are discussing in this forum.

   
  The point I am trying to make is this:  we might not "look" diverse, but we aren't all "the enemy."  In the classroom and in other places, many of us try to break down the racial, cultural or gender barriers, but we are not welcomed to do so.  There is justification for this:  whites have a history of not being trustworthy, especially to the ethnic groups you describe.  This is something common globally, with all groups, ethnic or otherwise.  
   
  In addition to the groups you mention, let's not forget the Middle Easterners.  Post 9/11 they especially have not been trusted, have been subjected to discrimination and hatred which has extended to the mistrust of all "foreigners."  How do we get past all that in the educational sector (and other sectors, for that matter) except through education?  It's rather a circular discussion because if no one wants to step forth to have the dialogue, we CANNOT get past it.  
   
  Here is an interesting article I just read on the topic of discrimination against Middle Easterners in general:  
  http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2008/02/26/trustee
   
  Katherine Mercurio Gotthardt
www.luxuriouschoices.net 
    ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Muro, Andres 
  To: The Poverty, Race,Women and Literacy Discussion List ; The Poverty, Race,Women and Literacy Discussion List 
  Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 8:08 AM
  Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 1684] Re: Discussing Diversity andPowerIssuesforProfessional Development in Adult Literacy
  

    Katherine: 
   
   
  There is nothing wrong with appreciating other people's beauties and with your descriptions in themselves. Unfortunately they also happen to be part of a historical context of exploitation, and commercialization. This country has a history of discrimination against other cultures and difference. This is particularly the case with African, Asian and Latin American countries. it also happens that some of the descriptions that you talk about are descriptions that are used to represent and commercialize a few stereotypes of cultures at different times in history. 
   
  The exotic and the different represent both fear and bravery. So, many like to symbolize their escapes into the exotic with depictions of their adventures into the wilderness. Displaying comodified representations of different cultures is a form of showing our adventurous and fearless spirit. These images are used to sell other cultures without necessarily sharing all aspects of the culture and wealth with them. It is like saying "In America we are not racists, we display photos and outfits from various cultures at festivals and shows and in our livingrooms". Yet, America doesn't go beyond cultural tourism to display their openness. When it is time to promote multilingualism, openness to immigrants and true respect for other cultures, then the true acceptance emerges. We see movements like English only, the new efforts to pass anti immigrant laws and the use of Obama's outfit to exhort different emotions during election years. 
   
  So, while again, there is nothing wrong with appreciating other people's cultures in the way that you do, we still live within a context of racism and exploitation of other cultures. It would be sort of as if people in a country that had a history of exploiting and systematically discriminating against Americans would display photos of cowboys to show their appreciation of Americans. So, we should understand when people feel a little sensitive about some of these images.
   
  Andres

  
  
---------------------------------
  From: povertyracewomen-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Katherine
Sent: Mon 2/25/2008 5:26 PM
To: The Poverty, Race,Women and Literacy Discussion List
Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 1682] Re: Discussing Diversity and PowerIssuesforProfessional Development in Adult Literacy


    Wow, Andres!  I never would have even thought of the sexuality thing, to be
honest.  I know it's kind of out there in the hip-hop, diva world, but I'm
FAR away from that scene.  Most African Americans I have interacted with
have been incredibly bright, witty, and talented.  Many of them have been
students.  Some LOOK generic hip-hop, but inside, they have been beautiful
individuals looking for a way to express that individuality.

My personal perceptions come from appreciation of human beings, their unique
cultural backgrounds, and the beauty that has come down through the ages.
When I look at someone from a specific ethnic background, I see a kind of
history--personal and cultural.  This has a lot to do with my spiritual
beliefs as well, so I know my perceptions are not necessarily those of the
majority.  I'm pretty "un-hegemonic" (ha ha.....if there is such a word).

At the risk of totally offending people and sounding ignorant, hasn't anyone
here ever looked at a sun-worn worker from Central America, smile lines and
wrinkles shining through every hardship that has been overcome and thought,
"What a beautiful person"?  Or a South African girl wearing a bright, beaded
kerchief and colorful necklaces?  Or an elderly Korean couple walking side
by side?  I don't see these as stereotypes of sexuality or ethnicity....I
see these things as PART of culture.  And I see them as beauty in people.
Does that make me weird?


Katherine Mercurio Gotthardt
www.luxuriouschoices.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Muro, Andres" <amuro5 at epcc.edu>
To: "The Poverty, Race,Women and Literacy Discussion List"
<povertyracewomen at nifl.gov>
Sent:Monday, February 25, 2008 5:39 PM
Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 1680] Re: Discussing Diversity and PowerIssuesfor
Professional Development in Adult Literacy



> Problem is that black images have been historically distorted and used

> by the

> hegemonic society, media and/or government to represent something for

> economic gain. At one time the stereotypes were of intellectual

> inferiority and brute/wild strength. That is what was used to promote

> blacks as good

> slaves. They were presented as not intellectually capable of doing what

> white people

> did, but they had the strength to do the brute work.

>

> The brute strength and wildness stereotype has been associated with

> animal beauty, exotic, animal sexuality, etc. While the media and

> government do not publicly promote the stereotypes of intellectual

> inferiority, those of wilderness, strength, wild sexuality continue to

> be used in the media. We may not notice these, but blacks, after 400

> years of enslavement, government supported discrimination, stereotyping

> in the media, etc. are really sensitive to this, and rightly so.

>

> So, when you praise a black person for their beauty, youth, hair, etc.

> the association lurks over their heads, and the question always remains

> if the reason you see them that way is because of the media teaching us

> to view blacks as these exotic, strong black creatures.

>

> Ultimately, as with every ethnic group there are tall and short black

> people, healthy and sick, strong and weak, highly intellectual and not.

> And everything in between. Blacks brought to America as slaves were

> selected to be stronger by the

> enslavers who wanted physical laborers. They were intentionally bred for

> physical strength like people do with dogs. They were sold in markets as

> healthy, strong, beautiful, muscular, able to breed and reproduce

> healthy offsprings, etc.

>

> Just for clarification purposes, I don't agree with the use of

> stereotypes for depicting blacks, as I don't agree with stereotypes used

> to describe other cultures and ethnic groups. However, they are a

> historical fact and when we encounter resistance and dislike to our best

> intentioned comment, we must try to understand where the resistance

> comes from.

>

> Hope that this helps,

>

> Andres

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: povertyracewomen-bounces at nifl.gov

> [mailto:povertyracewomen-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Katherine

> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 6:56 AM

> To: The Poverty, Race,Women and Literacy Discussion List

> Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 1678] Re: Discussing Diversity and Power

> Issuesfor Professional Development in Adult Literacy

>

> I'm so glad people are asking for diverse input, because I think there's

>

> such a lack of understanding, especially in cross-cultural

> communications.

>

> Here's an example:  a white woman tells a black lady (a BEAUTIFUL lady,

> dressed to kill all the time) that she's beautiful, referencing the

> widespread understanding that people with dark skin don't show their age

> as

> much.  The comment was meant as a compliment, but the woman took it as a

>

> racial slur.

>

> I have often said  I wish I were black, that I think I would be prettier

> if

> I were black, not just based on aging.  Black women to me symbolize

> strength, beauty, and character no matter what they look like.  Their

> beauty

> is inherited (though not necessarily exclusive to other cultures.)

>

> I have also said, "God is a big black lady wearing yellow."

>

> Why are statements like these taken as racial slurs?  I know living in

> the

> D.C. Metro area that race is still a touchy subject, more so than I have

>

> ever encountered.  We are still very much in the South, even in Northern

> VA.

>

> As a child, I remember asking a black friend if I could touch his hair.

> I

> just wanted to know what it FELT like, it was so cool.  And braids...I

> would

> love to have braids.  (Way too expensive, however.)

>

> What makes some people think these are insults as opposed to compliments

>

> (and in many cases, even racial low self esteem or poor body image)?

> Can

> someone explain it to me?

>

> Katherine Mercurio Gotthardt

> www.luxuriouschoices.net

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: "Angela Smith" <adsmith1 at uga.edu>

> To: "The Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy DiscussionList"

> <povertyracewomen at nifl.gov>

> Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 7:57 PM

> Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 1676] Re: Discussing Diversity and Power

> Issues

> for Professional Development in Adult Literacy

>

>

>> While the issues of race 'appears' to be readily discussed and

> addressed,

>> it is evident that it is not. The need for its central focus for

>> significant change still exists, particularly in education.

>>

>> Thank you Michael for your facts and reflections in regards to the

> plight

>> of African Americans. Margery, I appreciate your shared insight on

> white

>> privilege. Indeed, the mere fact that privileged people deny their

>> unmerited privilege, try to mainstream the word 'privilege' from this

>> significant social context or suggest that historical and current,

>> oppressive symbols be regarded in a general sense (not specific), is

> only

>> evidence of the lack of progress.

>>

>> The truth is, we are our social context with all of its lifelong

>> influences. While I believe in transformational experiences, the

> former

>> truth remains the same. Indeed, it is this same social context that

>> influences our practice. The question is: How do our ingrained beliefs

> and

>> values guide our practice - intentionally or unintentionally?

>>

>> Margery, I think you mentioned the importance of diverse input. I

> agree.

>> It is needed. Here's mine for what it's worth.

>> Angela Smith

>>

>> ----------------------------------------------------

>> National Institute for Literacy

>> Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list

>> PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov

>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen

>

> ----------------------------------------------------

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