Well, if done  poorly and crudely, it certainly could.  My experience  
of daily life convinces me that we are far from this, however.

To go back to the school world--At a faculty meeting, I remember one  
teacher complaining:  "All he wants is attention!"  And another teacher  
said, "Well, give it to him, then!"

And about parent conferences, during the time I used to train teachers:  
  "If you don't tell the parents FIRST that you love their child  they  
will not hear anything else you say."  People have to feel welcome, in  
school, and our adult students, many of whom have been burned by past  
school experiences, MUST be received with  attention and respect.   
Praise for one thing well done may transfer over to other things not so  
well done.

Andrea

On Jan 20, 2007, at 2:32 PM, Andrew Pleasant wrote:


> I am all for positive reinforcement, but - at times at least - could

> not strict adherence to the 3:1 ratio produce false expectations or

> appraisals of progress?

>

>

>

> On 1/20/07, Andrea Wilder <andreawilder at comcast.net> wrote:

>> Misleading how?

>>

>> Andrea

>>

>>

>> On Jan 20, 2007, at 11:47 AM, Andrew Pleasant wrote:

>>

>>> Hi,

>>>

>>> I am sure it will be well received, but what do you do when it is

>>> misleading?

>>>

>>> Best,

>>>

>>> ap

>>>

>>>

>>> On 1/20/07, Andrea Wilder <andreawilder at comcast.net> wrote:

>>>> Hi Andrew,

>>>>

>>>> This is lifted from an article on education in a newspaper, I can't

>>>> remember which.  As I have mentioned before, one of my tenants is a

>>>> Japanese woman teaching Japanese here.  We talked about it because

>>>> Japanese teachers (in my tenant's opinion, but she cites examples  

>>>> from

>>>> growing up in Tokyo)   teachers reverse the ratio.  We often discuss

>>>> teacher/student relationships and how to create high performing

>>>> students in an American (and New England) context.  When my Japanese

>>>> tenant gets up this morning (Saturday), I will ask her for the  

>>>> source,

>>>> she will probably remember.

>>>>

>>>> I have to tell you that in group living, in which I am now an  

>>>> expert,

>>>> the ratio seems to be about right.  People seem to need  

>>>> consideration

>>>> and approval.  I also have written up what I call "House Rules,"  

>>>> based

>>>> on my experiences over about 20 years of renting out rooms and the  

>>>> AMC

>>>> (Appalachian Mountain Club) rules as experienced by me in Maine and

>>>> New Hampshire, as well as   elementary school teaching experience.

>>>> People need praise, they (we) need to know that they (we) are seen  

>>>> and

>>>> approved of.

>>>>

>>>> "Success" with my tenants is worth  money, so I am a highly  

>>>> motivated

>>>> land lady.

>>>>

>>>> My tenant  has just  now reminded me  that the quote came from The  

>>>> New

>>>> York Times Sunday Magazine a couple of weeks ago:  "Happiness 101."

>>>>

>>>> Try it out, see if  it works.

>>>>

>>>> Andrea

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> On Jan 19, 2007, at 10:43 PM, Andrew Pleasant wrote:

>>>>

>>>>> 3:1, that is interesting - could you please share the basis for  

>>>>> that?

>>>>> Is it applicable across the board despite any relative 'success' or

>>>>> 'failure'?

>>>>>

>>>>> thanks,

>>>>>

>>>>> ap

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> On 1/19/07, Andrea Wilder <andreawilder at comcast.net> wrote:

>>>>>> Factoid:

>>>>>>

>>>>>> For student progress, affirmative to negative comments should

>>>>>> ideally

>>>>>> be in a ration of 3:1.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Andrea

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>> On Jan 19, 2007, at 3:30 PM, Colleen Krause wrote:

>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Hi Ujwala,

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Excellent point, & I agree.  I guess I should choose my words  

>>>>>>> more

>>>>>>> carefully, because I didn't mean it in such an absolute sense.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> So you believe that a teacher's expectations have no relevance on

>>>>>>> student achievement in adult education?

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> I enjoyed your feedback.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Thanks for the insight,

>>>>>>> Colleen

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----

>>>>>>> From: povertyracewomen-bounces at nifl.gov

>>>>>>> [mailto:povertyracewomen-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Ujwala

>>>>>>> Samant

>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 11:27 PM

>>>>>>> To: The Poverty, Race,Women and Literacy Discussion List

>>>>>>> Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 353] Re: Empowerment v. Politics

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> I beg to differ, as I've seen students (especially

>>>>>>> ESOL ones who are doing both ESOL and GED) surprise

>>>>>>> their teachers. In the classes I've observed, learner

>>>>>>> motivation and determination, or personal goals was

>>>>>>> the key factor in the their success. Interviews with

>>>>>>> them confirmed this.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Adult learners tend to differ from children in this

>>>>>>> regard, where for the latter, teacher regard is very

>>>>>>> high. Adult learners may want to stay longer with a

>>>>>>> good, responsive teacher. But they come in with a

>>>>>>> concrete agenda, unlike children who come in because

>>>>>>> their parents decreed it so. Support and encouragement

>>>>>>> help them learn, but their expectations are their own.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Regards,

>>>>>>> Ujwala

>>>>>>> --- Colleen Krause <Colleen.Krause at theirc.org> wrote:

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Hi Daphne,

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Well said!  I couldn't agree with you more.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Students will rise as high as our expectations.  The

>>>>>>>> greater the

>>>>>>>> support, the greater chance they have to succeed...

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----

>>>>>>>> From: povertyracewomen-bounces at nifl.gov

>>>>>>>> [mailto:povertyracewomen-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf

>>>>>>>> Of Daphne Greenberg

>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 3:12 PM

>>>>>>>> To: povertyracewomen at nifl.gov

>>>>>>>> Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 347] Re: Empowerment v.

>>>>>>>> Politics

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Andrea, John, and Colleen,

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> First of all, Andrea-you raise an excellent point.

>>>>>>>> We do need to

>>>>>>>> remember that the people in front of us are the ones

>>>>>>>> that survived. We

>>>>>>>> do not know about the ones that didn't.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> John and Colleen-I think that we agree on a lot of

>>>>>>>> points, so I would

>>>>>>>> like to clarify what I meant by my posting.

>>>>>>>> a. I agree that with proper support everyone is

>>>>>>>> capable of success and

>>>>>>>> motivation regardless of experiences and

>>>>>>>> backgrounds.

>>>>>>>> b. No one should ever be excluded or denied the

>>>>>>>> opportunity for self

>>>>>>>> improvement.

>>>>>>>> c. I agree that probably many of our students have

>>>>>>>> PTSD.

>>>>>>>> d. I agree that everyone is teachable and with the

>>>>>>>> proper support,

>>>>>>>> obstacles can be overcome.

>>>>>>>> e. I agree that we should reach out to everyone,

>>>>>>>> regardless of their

>>>>>>>> experiences and backgrounds.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> I meant to stress 2 things through my post:

>>>>>>>> 1. Success and motivation mean different things at

>>>>>>>> different points in

>>>>>>>> all of our lives. For example, someone who may

>>>>>>>> appear unmotivated, may

>>>>>>>> actually be extremely motivated and the fact that

>>>>>>>> they even only

>>>>>>>> sporadically come to class is a testament to their

>>>>>>>> motivation, because

>>>>>>>> of unbelievable obstacles that they experience

>>>>>>>> coming to class. My point

>>>>>>>> was that we cannot judge people's level of

>>>>>>>> motivation purely by their

>>>>>>>> behaviors, until we know their complete story.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> 2. We cannot look at one survivor of a horrific

>>>>>>>> event who has overcome

>>>>>>>> all odds and gets their GED, and look at another

>>>>>>>> survivor of the same

>>>>>>>> horrific event who hardly comes to class, and claim

>>>>>>>> that one is

>>>>>>>> motivated, and the other isn't. To me that is

>>>>>>>> similar to blaming the

>>>>>>>> victim. I often hear this kind of logic from some

>>>>>>>> graduate students who

>>>>>>>> say that because there are success stories of kids

>>>>>>>> who grow up in

>>>>>>>> dysfunctional families, attend awful schools, live

>>>>>>>> in crime ridden

>>>>>>>> neighborhoods, etc, etc. that therefore there must

>>>>>>>> be something wrong

>>>>>>>> with the kids who don't succeed in those situations.

>>>>>>>> They therefore do

>>>>>>>> not think that we need to reach out to those kids

>>>>>>>> because, look at the

>>>>>>>> success stories. They say that the ones that aren't

>>>>>>>> successes obviously

>>>>>>>> don't care enough, or aren't motivated enough. This

>>>>>>>> just is not true.

>>>>>>>> The reality is that there is something unique about

>>>>>>>> those kids who do

>>>>>>>> "succeed"-something either external or internal, and

>>>>>>>> the ones who do not

>>>>>>>> succeed need to get support. Unfortunately, society

>>>>>>>> does not provide

>>>>>>>> enough external supports. It is my opinion, (and of

>>>>>>>> course I could be

>>>>>>>> wrong), that the majority of people thrown into

>>>>>>>> horrific situations need

>>>>>>>> external supports to "succeed". Of course, this

>>>>>>>> opinion needs to be

>>>>>>>> tested empirically.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> I hope that I have clarified my thoughts, instead of

>>>>>>>> making them more

>>>>>>>> confusing!

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Daphne

>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------

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>>>>>>>>

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>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

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