*Pages 1--162 from Microsoft Word - 38920* 1 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com UNITED STATES FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION VoIP SOLUTIONS FOCUS ON DISABILITY ACCESS ISSUES SUMMIT FRIDAY MAY 7, 2004 The Summit met in the Commission Meeting Room at FCC Headquarters, 445 12 th Street, S. W., Washington, D. C., at 9: 00 a. m., Robert Pepper, Chief of Policy Development, FCC, presiding. COMMISSIONERS MICHAEL POWELL Chairman KATHLEEN Q. ABERNATHY Commissioner JONATHAN ADELSTEIN Commissioner MICHAEL COPPS Commissioner PARTICIPANTS BARRY ANDREWS 8x8 CARY BARBIB Galludet TAP BRENDA BATTAT Self Help for the Hard of Hearing ED BOSSON Texas Public Utilities Commission JEFF CARLISLE FCC, Co- Director Internet Policy Working Group GUNNAR HELLSTROM Omnitor PAUL E. JONES Cisco PAUL MICHAELIS Avaya ROBERT PEPPER FCC, Chief of Policy D Development HAROLD SALTERS T- Mobile PAUL SCHROEDER American Foundation for the Blind K. DANE SNOWDEN FCC, Chief, Consumer & Government Affairs Bureau CLAUDE STOUT Telecommunications for the Deaf, Inc. JIM TOBIAS Inclusive Technologies GREGG VANDERHEIDEN Trace Research and Development Center NATE WILCOX Vermont Enhanced 9- 1- 1 TOM WLODKOWSKI America Online 1 2 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com A- G- E- N- D- A OPENING REMARKS.............................. 3 PANEL 1...................................... 16 PANEL 2...................................... 57 PANEL 3...................................... 110 CLOSING REMARKS.............................. 158 2 3 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com P- R- O- C- E- E- D- I- N- G- S 1 9: 18 a. m. 2 OPENING REMARKS 3 DR. PEPPER: Good morning. I’ll give people 4 a chance to get settled. Good morning, my name is 5 Robert Pepper. I am chief of policy development here 6 at the FCC, and co- chair with Jeff Carlisle, who you 7 will meet in a little while. 8 We are co- chairs of the Internet Policy 9 Working Group. I want to welcome everybody to the 10 second of our Voice Over IP Solutions Summits. We had 11 one on E911 issues. 12 And we have today’s meeting on -- we are 13 focusing on disability access issues. And we are very 14 pleased that everybody is here. And we are 15 particularly pleased that so many people have come 16 from out of town, as well as people who are watching 17 us on the internet, since we are streaming today’s 18 solution summit on the internet. 19 It is being webcast, and it will be archived 20 on our website so you will be able look at it later 21 on. Back in December, on December first, the 22 Commission had a public forum on Voice Over IP issues. 23 And, at that time, there was broad consensus 24 that, well, Voice Over IP is a very exciting new 25 3 4 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com technology with all kinds of new possibilities. That 1 leads to all kinds of new competitive possibilities 2 and consumer benefits, and therefore, traditional 3 economic regulation might not be appropriate. 4 That there were several very important 5 enduring public policies, social policies, that do not 6 change, and that, in fact, Voice Over IP services need 7 to consider these very important social policies. 8 And among those we identified, and the 9 Commissioners identified, and the panelist identified 10 affordable phone service, universal service, the 11 ability for first responders with 911 to have access, 12 and for consumers to have access to 911, the ability 13 for Law Enforcement to have access to the information 14 that they need, and also, very importantly, that 15 people with disabilities have access to the 16 communications networks and services. 17 And so, at that time, Chairman Powell called 18 for a series of what we called Solutions Summits. And 19 it’s important, of course, you know, what you call 20 things. 21 And the reason we call them Solutions 22 Summits is Summits because we want senior people in 23 from industry from, in this case, the disabilities 24 community, from the academic world, senior people who 25 4 5 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com have been thinking about these issues to come to the 1 Commission and talk to us, and talk to each other 2 about the issues that are raised when we move into an 3 IP enabled world. 4 And we focused on the word Solutions because 5 that’s exactly what we’re looking towards, not just oh 6 here are problems, or here are issues, or here are 7 questions, but rather we should begin identifying what 8 the questions are, and then beginning to identify 9 possible solutions. 10 So it’s a constructive positive solutions 11 oriented discussion that we are trying to have today. 12 And, having spoken to people, I think this is what we 13 are going to have. 14 Just a few house- keeping things, and then I 15 will introduce some of our distinguished opening 16 speakers, my bosses, the Commissioners. First, as I 17 mentioned, the event today will be webcast. 18 Second, it will be archived on the webpage 19 we have on FCC, www. fcc. gov/ ipwg, that’s for IP 20 working group. It’s ipwg. And on that webpage you 21 will be able to access not only today’s event, but 22 also the Solutions Summit we had E911. 23 Today’s presentation also will become part 24 of the record in the Commission’s proceeding on IP 25 5 6 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com enabled services. There will be a transcript of 1 today’s proceeding that will be made part of that 2 record. 3 What we will do is have time for questions 4 after each panel. But if you could hold your 5 questions until the panelists are finished, and then 6 we will have all of the questions together for the 7 panelists and discussion. 8 We also would appreciate that everybody use 9 a microphone, since we are webcasting. And so the 10 only way that the people out there in cyber- land will 11 be able to hear the questions is if you come to the 12 microphone. 13 We have two mics here for people. Please 14 identify yourself before speaking. And, since we have 15 signing and closed captioning, if people could speak 16 very deliberately and clearly, so it makes it easier 17 both for the people doing closed captioning, as well 18 as the people doing the signing. 19 With that, I would like to introduce two of 20 our Commissioner. All of our Commissioners and the 21 Chairman will be here during the day. Should we start 22 with Commissioner Abernathy to make some opening 23 remarks? So, Commissioner Abernathy. 24 COMMISSIONER ABERNATHY: Good morning, 25 6 7 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com everyone. It is a gorgeous day, and I appreciate that 1 you have all decided to come inside anyway to help us 2 as we address a lot of these issues. 3 This is an extremely wonderful time in our 4 society when it comes to what technology can do for 5 people who have physical restrictions of different 6 kinds. 7 And so, what I’ve done over the past three 8 years is visited with a number of you to hear about 9 what some of the frustration can be when these new 10 technologies unfold, and somehow we don’t pay adequate 11 attention to how they can really change lives. 12 The beauty of broadband, as I’ve said before 13 we even talked about with the disabilities community, 14 is it’s going to change the way people in rural parts 15 of the country can educate their children. 16 You have access to professors that aren’t 17 available out there on subjects that previously 18 couldn't be taught. It’s going to change the way we 19 do health and tele- medicine. 20 It gives access to wonderful ways of 21 treating illnesses that, again, were previously 22 unavailable. And today we are focusing on what’s it 23 going to mean for people with other kinds of physical 24 challenges? 25 7 8 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com And let’s make sure that it’s going to 1 deliver as much promise to all of those people, as 2 well as to people in rural American, and people in 3 urban areas. 4 So, I’m very, very pleased to be here. I 5 have a quick story, because it shows how much our 6 society really is changing today. And it’s about my 7 daughter, because everything is about my daughter. 8 And so I came home last night and there was 9 a form she had to fill out for school next year. And 10 it said what language do you want to take next year? 11 And the choice was French and Spanish. 12 So I asked her which one she wanted to take. 13 And she said I don’t want to take either one. I want 14 to take sign language. And I said, well, that’s 15 wonderful, that you want to take sign language. 16 But you’re supposed to also take French or 17 Spanish. And she said, well, it’s a foreign language, 18 mom, it’s a different language, can’t I take sign 19 language. 20 So, it turns out her babysitter has been 21 teaching sign language, and she really likes. So we 22 are going to get a class in sign language too. In 23 addition, she will also of course take a foreign 24 language. 25 8 9 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com But what it means is that there’s just a 1 different way of looking at the world. And that means 2 that as we approach these new technologies we have to 3 make sure that we are presenting them in a way that 4 all of these benefits will be made available to as 5 many consumers as possible. 6 So, what I’m pleased, is that as many of you 7 are here today to help us with these challenges. I 8 think, as Dr. Pepper pointed out, we’re not talking 9 about the same old traditional economic regulation, 10 because that’s not really as much of an issue when we 11 talk about competitive new services. 12 But what we are talking about, is what are 13 the social obligations, the important policy 14 obligations that are not market- driven. So they won’t 15 happen without our involvement. 16 And that’s what this Solutions Summit is 17 about, how can we deliver those benefits to all 18 Americans? And we look forward to hearing from all of 19 you. 20 I appreciate your time and attention to this 21 issue. Rest assured, I will continue meeting with all 22 of you through this next year, again, so we can 23 continue to think about, and talk about how we can 24 make sure that we’re on the right track. 25 9 10 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com So thank you very much, and have a great 1 day. 2 DR. PEPPER: Thank you, Commissioner 3 Abernathy. Commissioner Adelstein? 4 COMMISSIONER ALDESTEIN: Thank you, Dr. 5 Pepper, and I thank all of you for being here. I 6 would also like commend Dane Snowden and the staff of 7 the Consumer and Governmental Affairs Bureau that put 8 this excellent panel together. 9 We have an outstanding group of panelist. 10 And we really appreciate your taking the time to be 11 here and to share your expertise, and all of you, the 12 participants, that took time out of your busy 13 schedules and, as Commissioner Abernathy noted, out of 14 this beautiful day, to join us here this morning. 15 And I’d also like to take a moment to thank 16 the Chairman for doing this. He was the one whose 17 initiative set up this series of hearings. I really 18 think it’s important that he has recognized how 19 critical this issue is to the future of internet 20 enabled services are really put the priority on it 21 that resulted in this event today, which can set for 22 us a real agenda that we need to follow to make sure 23 that everyone in this country can benefit from the 24 amazing new services and functionalities that can come 25 10 11 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com with internet enables services like this. 1 I used to work on issues regarding Americas 2 With Disabilities when I worked on Capitol Hill for 3 about 15 years. And it was always one of the most 4 rewarding things I worked with because I was able to 5 work with people who had ideas about charting their 6 own future and just wanted the government to be a 7 partner in that. 8 And that’s what we’re doing today. I was 9 there when the Americans With Disabilities Act was 10 enacted. And I always try to keep foremost in my 11 mind, and I’m glad to see that the Commission does 12 this as well, the issues affecting people with 13 disabilities, and to make sure that all the 14 technologies that are unfolding can be accessed by 15 everyone in this country, including those with 16 disabilities of various kinds. 17 And each kind of disability presents its own 18 unique challenges and opportunities as we look at this 19 technology. Voice Over Internet protocols an 20 incredibly promising technology for people who have 21 disabilities. 22 It can provide new opportunities to 23 communicate more completely, both at home and in the 24 workplace. VoIP is especially empowering because it 25 11 12 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com can integrate the phone and voicemail, audio 1 conferencing, email, instant messaging, and web 2 applications. 3 It can be converted into text and vice- 4 versa. So, you can have the voice become text, the 5 text become voice, depending on what a person needs. 6 It can remove the need for TTY device, because TTY 7 compatible calls can be made from a computer. 8 This is an incredible new era we are 9 entering. VoIP can also empower workers with 10 disabilities to perform their jobs better. Hearing 11 impaired workers can read their voicemail. 12 And they can use various programs to do that 13 in a fraction of the time it would otherwise take. 14 People who have vision impairments can use IP enabled 15 phones without the need of memorizer, marked buttons 16 on the phone. 17 VoIP can also help remote parties, loved 18 ones or professionals, people we work with, that 19 assist in the care of people with disabilities. This 20 technology is still developing. 21 And the potential is virtually unlimited. 22 So we have got to make sure that we enable access to 23 everyone in this country to these new technologies as 24 they are rolling out. 25 12 13 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com And, as Commissioner Abernathy said, to make 1 sure that as that happens that nobody falls behind. 2 And, in particular, given the wonderful opportunities 3 and applications for people with disabilities, it is 4 especially important with these kinds of services that 5 we make sure to completely exploit their potential to 6 the fullest extent. 7 We want to think about this in terms of 8 broadband as well. Now, you can’t have these kinds of 9 services, VoIP or internet- enabled services, unless 10 you have broadband. 11 And so that makes us think about the need to 12 deploy broadband at a fast and steady pace, and in an 13 even way across the country. I think that this will 14 move ahead the day that we have to consider when 15 universal service will be applied to broadband. 16 The purpose of universal service is to 17 ensure that all Americans have access to comparable 18 services at comparable prices. The idea was that 19 nobody would be left behind, be it people that live in 20 rural America, people that live in high- cost areas, or 21 those who had disabilities. 22 And so the priority of ensuring that kind of 23 roll- out is moved up as there are new opportunities 24 that become available to people through VoIP. And as 25 13 14 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com we want to make sure that everybody has comparable 1 services, if VoIP becomes the new standard, and 2 becomes essential, for example, for those with 3 disabilities, then we have to ensure that they have 4 the broadband connections necessary so they can 5 actually take advantage of these internet- enabled 6 services. 7 It will make it easier to put everyone on 8 these networks in an equal footing. So this summit is 9 the first step in reaching those key objectives. I 10 look forward to hearing from our expert panelist and 11 participants. 12 We have this on closed circuit upstairs, as 13 well as in our offices. We are going to continue to 14 monitor this throughout the day. And I will want to 15 continue to work with all of you to make sure that 16 your views are heard as we debate these important 17 issues, and as we make sure that this technology rolls 18 out in a smooth, even, and rapid way across the 19 country. 20 So thank you for making me a part of this. 21 I really appreciate it. It is good to be here. 22 DR. PEPPER: Thank you Commissioner. The 23 way we have structured this morning is into three 24 panels and panel discussions. The first, which is 25 14 15 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com going to be chaired by Dane Snowden, who is chief of 1 our Consumer and Governmental Affairs Bureau, is going 2 to focus on opportunities presented by IP- enabled 3 services. 4 And Commissioner Adelstein just talked about 5 some of these things. The second panel, which I will 6 moderate, is going to look at challenges presented by 7 IP enabled services. 8 So we have the benefits and potential 9 issues. And then the third panel that Jeff Carlisle 10 will moderate is going to focus on regulatory 11 considerations for IP- enabled services and 12 disabilities access. 13 Dane will moderate, I’m not sure, I think 14 we’re just going to probably sit there, except if some 15 people have PowerPoints they may come up here to do 16 their presentations. 17 We are going to try to make this as informal 18 as possible. But I, by the way, want to echo 19 Commissioner Adelstein and thank Dane, and June 20 Taylor, and Kelly. 21 I mean, you just have a fabulous group that 22 put this whole event together. And I said to Dane 23 earlier, you have now set a new standard for every 24 other bureau and office that puts on a meeting like 25 15 16 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com this, because you have just done a fabulous job. 1 So thank you Dane. Thanks June, and thanks 2 to Pam, Gregory and the whole team here. So, with 3 that I will turn it over to Dane. 4 PANEL 1 5 MR. SNOWDEN: Thank you very much, Bob. My 6 staff, they always make me look good, which is not 7 necessarily an easy thing to do. And I appreciate it 8 very much, all the hard work they have put into this 9 summit. 10 Well, Good morning to everyone. This has 11 been a long time coming. We are very excited to have 12 this panel get started. I want to thank everyone for 13 participating in today’s activities. 14 And, as Commissioner Adelstein said a moment 15 ago, when Chairman Powell made the call for a 16 Solutions Summit, and he called for three, our goal 17 was to do just that, find solutions. 18 And what we are here today is to hear some 19 of the solutions that we can address as we look at the 20 development and innovative technologies of VoIP. As 21 Bob Pepper just mentioned, the first panel will 22 discuss the opportunities of IP- enabled services, 23 particularly as it applies to people with 24 disabilities. 25 16 17 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com While still somewhat in its infancy, IP- 1 enabled services are rapidly becoming a fixture as a 2 tele- communications platform. Today, as we focus on 3 the unlimited potential, we want to make sure we keep 4 in mind the issues that address persons with 5 disabilities. 6 The first individual we are honored to have 7 with us today is Cary Barbib, who joined Galludet 8 University Technology Access Program, or TAP, in 2001 9 as a Senior Research Engineer. 10 His current research areas include 11 assessment and applications of digital video 12 communications, wireless telecommunications, and text 13 or VoIP. 14 He has been an active member of the 15 technical incubator of the Alliance of 16 Telecommunications Industry Solutions TTY Forum. It 17 is my pleasure to introduce Cary. 18 MR. BARBIB: Thank you. Okay, thank you for 19 having me here today. I’m going to talk about some 20 opportunities I see in relationship to VoIP or IP- 21 enabled services, the IP world, we’ll call it. 22 And some of you, you know, we can talk about 23 some of the opportunities for growth in the future and 24 areas that we can make improvement in. One is video, 25 17 18 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com as you know. 1 Video is becoming a hot thing on the 2 internet. The people can do video- conferencing from 3 far away places all over the planet. It is very nice. 4 You can feel like you’re right there in the same room 5 with somebody, and you can talk to your parents or 6 whoever it is you would like to speak to. 7 Video relay services is an available service 8 now throughout the United States and some other 9 countries as well. And that’s a nice service that we 10 have available to the deaf community to enable quick 11 and equivalent communication in phone calls with the 12 use of interpreters. 13 But there is a lot of room for improvement 14 and a lot of growth in the technology that’s used 15 there. For example, I envisioned that we could see 16 the interpreter and the person that we are speaking 17 with, the hearing person, so it’s a three- way 18 conference- call, so we can all see each other, just as 19 if we were all sitting in the same room together. 20 That would be a nice feature to be able to 21 have. That applies to conference- calls, forums, and 22 various types of usages where you can, you know, 23 people are talking with the interpreter, and, you 24 know, you can be able to see the interpreter and know 25 18 19 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com what’s being said and keep up with them. 1 It also affects quality of service issues. 2 One are where I’ve noticed that video sometimes lacks 3 is the frame rates that you get if the internet is 4 very busy or something. 5 Then we suffer from that because of the 6 ability to get quality of service through the speed of 7 our internet connection based on the number of users 8 and the internet speeds that are being used at that 9 particular time. 10 It does bring us up to more of a functional 11 equivalency level with a regular phone. You know, the 12 interpreter is able to operate at a much quicker speed 13 and much more fluently and fluidly. 14 Broadband in the deaf community is somewhat 15 equivalent to a dial- tone for hearing people, because 16 being able to have that opportunity to use, you know, 17 video services, and being able to see somebody on the 18 screen that perhaps you could lip- read while making a 19 phone call that’s a video- conference phone call. 20 And those hard- of- hearing users could be 21 able to hear and also use lip reading to be able to 22 enhance their phone experience. Being able to use 23 video services, you know, video on demand for people 24 is an extremely popular thing at this point in time. 25 19 20 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com And being able to have captions for phone 1 calls, you know. It would help not only deaf and hard 2 of hearing people, but hearing people in general, you 3 know, because if you’re in a noisy area or something 4 like that, you could see the captions and be able to 5 still understand what the person is saying. 6 If you are on an airplane or if you are in a 7 bar where there’s, you know, it’s a noisy environment, 8 and captions are giving hearing people access to the 9 communication as well as deaf and hard- of- hearing 10 people. 11 Another area would be the language of 12 choice. So for me, if I would like to chose, you 13 know, I would like to use sign language, or if I want 14 to hear what the conversation, or if I want to have 15 captions for the conversation, then it gives us 16 functional equivalency and options. 17 You know, I can also maybe have both. Maybe 18 if I don’t catch something the interpreter says but 19 there’s simultaneous captioning of what the hearing 20 person says, I can then, you know, catch the exact 21 wording of what has been said for a particular 22 conversation. 23 These services also give us choice, and 24 allows us to have preference. And the technology 25 20 21 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com needs to tie everything together. And that’s the next 1 ting I’d like to speak about, is the opportunity 2 there. 3 Have on- demand translations, you know, where 4 we have interpreters in different languages, you know, 5 between a deaf and a hearing person just with the 6 click of a button we can connect to an interpreter for 7 a different language, a sign language interpreter, a 8 French interpreter, a Spanish interpreter or whatever, 9 that is needed so that anybody can connect to each 10 other and do that without barriers of language 11 impeding. 12 Also mobile- IP applications like cell 13 phones, pagers, and other devices that are used. That 14 family of devices currently, you know, I can use my 15 text pager to contact people from wherever I am. 16 You know, I’m not limited to where there’s a 17 payphone TTY or if I carry a TTY around with the cell 18 phone. But, you know, now I’m untethered in what I 19 can do with the wireless applications that are out 20 there. 21 And that’s great. But there are still 22 issues there that need to be addressed as well. It 23 would be nice if we had IP text messaging, so that 24 that message could be received anywhere by any device, 25 21 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com that every device supported that text- messaging, so 1 that people could immediately connect to each other 2 and be able to communicate through that mode. 3 It especially applies to 911 call centers, 4 the PSAPs. If I could connect to that PSAP through 5 my, you know, text pager without having to use a phone 6 and a TTY. 7 You know, currently a cell phone requires a 8 separate TTY to be carried around. So there’s two 9 devices. And if you forget your TTY, my cell phone 10 then becomes worthless for calling 911 or calling 11 relay because I can’t get a hold of them. 12 They don’t know where I am. They don’t 13 know, you know, who’s making the call. There’s issues 14 to be addressed there. But if everything could be 15 incorporated into, you know, where text is a 16 possibility everywhere, then I could page 911 and get 17 responses. 18 And I wouldn't have to go through a third- 19 party vendor for that. Also, in relation to calling 20 911, I think it would be nice that if we called 911 it 21 would automatically be able to connect to video 22 interpreters, you know. 23 When I’m using internet services that 24 automatically the software would recognize that I need 25 22 23 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com to connect to an interpreter, and those interpreters 1 would be available for those emergency calls. 2 Location is important as well. You know, we 3 need to be able to use GPS devices or technology 4 incorporated within text pagers to be able to identify 5 our location so that the 911 call centers know exactly 6 where I am when I’m making this call or sending this 7 message. 8 And that’s the same technology that needs to 9 be used for 911 centers connecting through the 10 internet for video calls, using interpreters. The 11 other thing is that we need to have an open platform, 12 a platform with interconnectivity for all devices, not 13 certain clients only connecting with each other, but 14 an open platform so that everybody can take advantage 15 of the devices that they have, and use those. 16 And open platform allows people to use their 17 own software and be able to have developers 18 continually developing that software, and improving 19 it. 20 Technology is very important, especially as 21 we move into the IP world to make sure that everything 22 is functionally equivalent so that we can stop using 23 some of the old technology that we are currently 24 stippled with. 25 23 24 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com And it prevents the fraud and barriers that 1 we face as well. Thank you very much. 2 MR. SNOWDEN: Thank you Cary. Next up all 3 the way from Sweden is Gunnar Hellstrom, who 4 specializes in accessible telecommunications and 5 information technology. 6 He is the founder of Omnitor, a Swedish 7 company devoted to consulting, product development, 8 and implementing solutions in this area. Thanks for 9 joining us Gunnar. 10 MR. HELLSTROM: Thank you, it is a pleasure 11 to be here. I want to speak about a title I called 12 accessibility raised to the power of three. The three 13 are the media that we need to include in the calls 14 now, when we have a chance. 15 Voice Over IP technology gives us very good 16 opportunity to improve the personal communication. We 17 can leave the inaccessible voice- telephony behind and 18 include more media in the calls, including more people 19 in the calls. 20 We can have video. Video can be used for a 21 lot of things, for sign language, for lip reading, for 22 recognition, for feelings, for showing things. Text 23 character by character just as on the TTY, but with 24 better speed and two ways, can be used for 25 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com conversation, for addresses, and other exact 1 information, for numbers, for spelling, and so on. 2 And voice, as e are used to, is also used, 3 of course, for the conversation part. But if we 4 include these three we open for a lot of opportunities 5 and we establish services that would give very lot of 6 benefits for us all and people with disabilities. 7 And we have a little picture with a possible 8 user interface for this kind of communication with 9 three media in the call. It is sign language and text 10 in the bottom and also the possibility to have voice. 11 And that’s the focus on what we should go 12 with. One good example is the benefit for deaf/ blind 13 users. If you can -- you have many kinds of 14 deaf/ blind users. 15 But this one on the picture here is using 16 sign language out, but can’t perceive sign language 17 in. So therefore she has a device where you get the 18 text in and it comes out onto a Braille display. 19 So it is the same communication for all 20 kinds of situations. And you can in that way open 21 communication for all. Another example is between 22 deaf and hearing persons. 23 If you don’t go the relay, if you want to 24 have direct communication, you need to go down to text 25 25 26 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com for the main conversation. But the video will give 1 you the opportunity to see each other, to acknowledge 2 and recognize, and show things, and so on. 3 So, you can combine a lot of situations like 4 this, and find that the video, text, and voice 5 combination is really the thing that opens the 6 communication world. 7 The picture here is a small computer with 8 this kind of multimedia, total conversation 9 application. It’s connected to the 3G phone, in this 10 case, so you go mobile with it. 11 The more wide- spread we get this new 12 telephony, the more benefit it will be, of course, for 13 all. And here is what you can do. With IP you have 14 the good benefit that you have many kinds of access, 15 many kinds of connection. 16 And you can use the same protocols. You can 17 have wired connections in your office or your home. 18 Or you can connect these mobile telephones. You can 19 have wireless LAN in private or public settings. 20 You can have 3D wireless connections. And 21 you don’t need to always be on multimedia. You can 22 also do subsets like the video phone, with only video 23 and voice. 24 You can do voice phones, you can do text 25 26 27 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com phones with the same protocols you get 1 interoperability. And, talking about interoperability 2 you also need to be interoperable with the old world, 3 the telephones and the text phones, the TTYs. 4 And that has to be done through gateways 5 into the old telephone network. And we should not 6 forget to also link in the relay services. And one 7 important reason to arrange for interoperability with 8 the telephone network is for emergency access where we 9 need to link the new way of doing text in IP with the 10 old way of doing text on the TTYs. 11 So, voice gateways and text gateways are 12 needed to connect this world. We cannot do this in an 13 efficient way if we don’t apply standards. And that’s 14 an area where I have been working quite a lot, to 15 reach a reasonable good state currently with 16 standards. 17 And we can achieve interoperability if we 18 promote one preferred set of standards as the main 19 ones. It seems that the text medium is the part that 20 is usually lagging behind, or not getting that much 21 implementation. 22 I would prefer that we can agree on using 23 SIP for the goal as a preferred set of default 24 standards, and then video, and T. 140 for text, and 25 27 28 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com audio standards. 1 And if we, as much as possible, go with 2 these standards we will have easier to make 3 interoperability. There is quite good situation. 4 Many standards boards are working on this idea. 5 ITU, ETSI, TIA, all are working and know 6 what each other are working with in this field. And 7 it’s the text part that needs to be checked, that it 8 follows the pace of the others. 9 But it’s a good situation. And we have the 10 impact. Well, Paul will tell you more about the 11 standards. We have to put the user in the center so 12 you give one terminal to the user. 13 It can be different makes, different kinds. 14 They must use the same protocol so that you can get 15 interoperability, and the user can use the same 16 terminal to access voice users, text users, signing 17 users, text relays, and video relay services, and 18 emergency. 19 And I would like all to join in this 20 implementation of personal communication for all. 21 That will benefit us if we harmonize it. Thank you. 22 MR. SNOWDEN: Thank you very much Gunnar. 23 The next panelist will be Harold Salters. Harold is 24 the Director of Federal Regulatory Affairs for T- 25 28 29 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com Mobile USA, with responsibilities for various 1 technical and operational issues, including 2 interconnection, infrastructure access, network 3 reliability, interoperability, digital TTY, and 4 Section 255 implementation. Thank you, Harold, and 5 welcome. 6 MR. SALTERS: Thank you, Dane. Good morning 7 everyone. Thanks for coming. As our previous 8 panelists have indicated, it’s so important that we 9 add the mobility dimension to IP- enabled services. 10 Adding this dimension is crucial to 11 accessibility. It’s important to note that although 12 we talk a lot about future requirements, that mobile 13 data devices today offer accessibility opportunities 14 here and now. 15 And as noted, for instance, mobile data 16 devices liberate individuals from the whatever 17 inconvenience of the portable TTY hookup to the cell 18 phone. 19 And, indeed, a significant portion of the 20 market for handheld devices is the deaf and hard- of- 21 hearing communities. I’d like to just show you for a 22 moment some of T- Mobile’s hand- held offerings. 23 Up there we have the Blackberry 7230, a very 24 popular device both in the business community and in 25 29 30 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com person communities as well. Next up we have the T- 1 Mobile Color Sidekick, a very popular device in the 2 deaf and hard- of- hearing communities. 3 It features AOL instant messenger is already 4 loaded directly onto the Sidekick desktop, and in 5 addition to text messaging and email. And also we 6 have the Trio 600, which is an integrated PDA device, 7 again, offering email and text. 8 It’s important to note that a significant 9 portion of the demand for these devices are the deaf 10 and hard- of- hearing community. And also, that these 11 devices work as an important bridge between the IP 12 layer and the public switch telephone network. 13 As we saw from the example of Gunnar’s cloud 14 PowerPoint, it’s very important that there be 15 connectivity. Indeed T- Mobile is investigating 16 multiple versions and options of IP relay services 17 that would be free to the end user, specifically for 18 the Sidekick. 19 So, again, this offer is an important bridge 20 between legacy applications and future applications. 21 Further, T- Mobile offers the Hotspot WiFi, which 22 offers laptop connectivity to the internet. 23 What I would urge all of us to keep in mind 24 is that, as we address these issues, is that we need 25 30 31 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com to maintain a forward looking focus on IP and 1 accessibility issues. 2 Right now there is a great deal of standards 3 work going on in the international community, and 4 domestically as well, on making those things happen, 5 as Gunnar has alluded to. 6 I’m also proud to note that one of my 7 colleagues, Jim Nixon from T- Mobile, is Chairman of 8 the NRIC VII Focus Group on long term 911 issues. The 9 network reliability and interoperability council’s 10 focus for the upcoming two year term is going to be on 11 precisely 911 issues. 12 And I think it’s so important that those 13 issues are being highlighted. That would Focus Group 14 1B. It’s also important that we make the public 15 safety community aware of the need to implement 16 instant messaging access to 911. 17 Not only to PSAPs (Public Safety Answering 18 Points) have to have PSTN connectivity, they have to 19 have IP connectivity as well. It is encouraging that 20 a number of public safety agencies are integrating 21 today standards- based IP functionalities into their 22 overall public safety communities systems in order to 23 enhance their own interoperability and efficiency. 24 The challenge before us is to get the public 25 31 32 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com safety community to also recognize that this ongoing 1 IP work needs to also be done to enable text and 2 instant messaging access to 911. Thank you very much. 3 MR. SNOWDEN: Thank you very much, Harold. 4 Next we will have Tom Wlodkowski who is Director of 5 Accessibility at America Online. In this role he 6 drives employee awareness of issues that prevent full 7 access to the internet and the development and 8 implementation of requirements and technological 9 solutions to enhance the accessibility of AOL products 10 and services to people with disabilities. Welcome 11 Tom. 12 MR. WLODKOWSKI: Thank you. It is my 13 pleasure to be here today. Before we get into looking 14 at opportunity, it seems to me that one of the things 15 that we really aught to do is take a look at where 16 things are currently today, in terms of how we are 17 leveraging IP. 18 Certainly mobility seems to be the 19 underlying theme throughout the panelists’ 20 presentations. And I couldn't agree more with that. 21 Untethering individuals with disabilities from PCs 22 where they have traditionally had access to access 23 technologies. 24 You know, when I go to traveling down to my, 25 32 33 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com you know, parents house or whatever, I don’t always 1 have the laptop with the access technology. So what 2 we really want to do, then, is make sure that there 3 are IP- enabled solutions that will allow someone, for 4 example, to access their email without need of a 5 screen reader, if you are talking about someone who is 6 blind or visually impaired, and making sure that an 7 individual who is deaf can get instructions, driving 8 directions, using mobile devices. 9 Today AOL has a few different services that 10 we believe provide this mobility. AOL by phone is a 11 phone based email system that is available today where 12 you can read, reply, and initiate an email message 13 simply by recording a voice message. 14 That message is then sent to the recipient’s 15 mailbox and they can either pick it up through the 16 traditional means of accessing email through their PC, 17 but they can also, you know, call AOL by phone and 18 hear the message that way. 19 Again, we believe that is an experience that 20 brings folks away from total reliance on the PC to 21 benefit from the most popular feature today on the 22 internet, email. 23 AOL for Broadband over the past six months 24 recently launched streaming closed captions on select 25 33 34 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com video content, as did our KOL service, and online 1 channel that is target for kids six to twelve. 2 Today kids can log on and watch a ten 3 episode cartoon series titled Princess Natasha with 4 closed captions. The captions are off by default, and 5 there’s a little button on the video window where they 6 can enable the captions. 7 AOL for Broadband is streaming six daily 8 feeds of a CNNJ Quickcast, which is a three minute 9 news stream produced and provided by CNN. What we do 10 there is use some automated technology that can 11 actually take the script of the newscast and sync it 12 up with the video. 13 And we are able to deliver in an automated 14 fashion these six daily streams. Automation is 15 critical, particularly where, at least from where we 16 stand, in that media shops are relatively small, 17 particularly in the internet space, where we are a 18 content aggregator. 19 And so we are dealing with multiple 20 partners. And much of the content is produced 21 exclusively for streaming only. And so some solutions 22 were done in the area of automation and ways of 23 syncing text with video would certainly be welcomed. 24 And we’d be happy to be a part of that 25 34 35 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com environment. Looking ahead, certainly AOL Instant 1 Messenger has recently announced and launched video 2 capability. 3 So it is now possible for individuals with a 4 webcam to get into a video chat, as aim is pervasive 5 throughout many devices, from the PC through mobile 6 devices, as you just heard, available on the T- Mobile 7 Sidekick device. 8 Looking at how we can leverage instant 9 messaging to enhance accessibility. And the immediate 10 concept that comes to mind is using instant messaging 11 as a gateway to relay and video relay services. 12 And we are now actively looking at ways of 13 doing this with relay partners and hope to have 14 announcements in this area very shortly. Again, 15 looking for partners is the best way to advance these 16 solutions. 17 So I want to just, in closing, thank the 18 folks here at the FCC for assembling this panel. And 19 I feel that certainly a Voice Over IP is an emerging 20 technology, and hope to use the remainder of the day 21 to learn actually more than what we can present now, 22 and hope that we can come back in years to come with a 23 continuing brightening picture, thank you very much. 24 MR. SNOWDEN: Thank you, Tom. Next Paul 25 35 36 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com Jones from SYSCO Systems. Paul has been involved in 1 research and development of protocols and systems 2 architectures in the area of multimedia communications 3 including voice, video, and data conferencing over IP 4 networks. Welcome Paul. 5 MR. JONES: All right, thank you. Just to 6 let everybody know, I was a little bit late getting my 7 presentation to the FCC. So we did not have Braille 8 copies available. 9 If anybody needs a copy in Braille, let me 10 know and I will get that to you. So, a lot of people 11 so far during this session have been talking about the 12 things that we need to do. 13 And certainly there still are a lot of 14 things that we do need to do. But I will, I guess, 15 put a little bit more positive spin on things. We are 16 doing things. 17 We are doing a lot of stuff. So the topic 18 of my presentation is on total conversation through 19 ITU and IETF standards, and specifically sign- type 20 speak. 21 You Decide, is the title. So as you know, 22 the TTY was introduced roughly in 1964. And that 23 device really opened up communications for the deaf 24 and hard- of- hearing. It allowed them, for the first 25 36 37 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com time, to be able to communicate with people over a 1 telephone that, in the past, had been limited only to 2 people who had hearing ability. 3 So the introduction of the TTY really 4 changed things for the deaf. And things really didn't 5 progress too much beyond the introduction of the TTY. 6 Since that time, the TTY device has stayed basically 7 with the same technology. 8 Different countries around the world have 9 adopted different protocols. And they have tried to 10 make improvements on the TTY device. And Mr. 11 Hellstrom in the panel here was one person who has 12 tried to do a significant amount of work to try to 13 improve on the TTY device. 14 But I do think we have a unique opportunity 15 with IP to make a huge step forward. So part of the 16 work that I have been doing for quite a while now has 17 been focused on multimedia conferencing, specifically 18 things related to voice, video, and text integration. 19 I have been doing that within the ITU and 20 the IETF. And I think that, if you bring these things 21 together, you will better enable everybody to 22 communicate, not only the people that are deaf or 23 blind, but everybody. 24 And I think that’s the ultimate goal. We 25 37 38 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com want to have total conversation as part of our 1 communications experience. So the ITU had defined a 2 set of multimedia service specifications. 3 The ITU then set out and -- actually in 4 parallel -- also defined multimedia conferencing 5 protocols, most notably H. 323, H. 320, and H. 324. And 6 those different protocols have different applications 7 basis. 8 But they are largely interoperable. The 9 IETF worked on the protocol called SIP, which is not 10 quite as interoperable as some of the H. 300 series 11 protocols, but is a multimedia protocol intended for 12 use over IP networks. 13 So one of the issues I think that we faced 14 early on was that those multimedia systems were 15 focused on voice and video. In fact, they were 16 focused on room- based video conferencing systems. 17 So, when the IP came along, -- I think it 18 was about the mid 90’s when IP really started to take 19 off around the world -- people started looking at 20 turning this into a Voice Over IP technology, not just 21 a room- based video- conferencing technology. 22 And there was not a focus on text, per se. 23 So the ITU took the task to try to raise awareness on 24 accessibility issues. We focused on the needs of 25 38 39 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com improving video for sign language. 1 We also started to add things to the 2 multimedia protocols to support text properly. So, 3 again, Mr. Hellstrom worked on T. 140, which is a very 4 important piece. 5 This allows us to actually relay text, or to 6 send text between multimedia systems. The IETF RFC 7 2793 is a document that describes how to take T. 140 8 and transport T. 140 over an IT network between two 9 systems. 10 H. 323 and SIP both can utilize that 11 protocol. So there’s an ongoing initiative at the 12 moment called ToIP, or Text over IP. And the focus of 13 this is to allow the bridging of two PSTN networks. 14 This is to allow character by character 15 communication, which is the preferred mode of 16 communication, allow simultaneous two- way 17 conversation, along with voice and video. 18 There are inherent limitations with the 19 existing PSTN. Obviously we can’t do simultaneous 20 voice, video, and text if we are also interworking 21 with the PSTN. 22 But it is an important component to be able 23 to do the PSTN interworking. And we have a 24 standardized character set based on Unicode, so all 25 39 40 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com languages of the world are supported. 1 We want to support all of the TTY devices 2 that exist today. So we don’t want to leave somebody 3 with a legacy device behind moving on to an IP 4 network. 5 We want to enable different device types to 6 communicate to each other. This is actually a barrier 7 internationally. People from one country to another 8 can’t communicate with their TTY devices. 9 We are going to try to figure out a way to 10 remove that barrier with IP. And we want to enable 11 the legacy PSTN devices to communicate with all the 12 newer devices. 13 So there’s a link on my slide deck to a 14 website that I have been creating. It’s not fully 15 fledged out, but it has some information on ToIP. 16 There’s RFC, I mentioned, 2793, which describes how to 17 convey Text over IP. 18 And you will see on this slide here we have 19 a V. 21 device in UK talking to a Baudot device in the 20 United States. RFC 2793 can serve as the bridge for 21 that. 22 We also have along with us the ability to 23 bring in additional devices. We can have endpoints 24 that are PCs, endpoints that are IP phones bridged 25 40 41 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com with endpoints are traditional TTY devices, everything 1 interconnected over the IP network. 2 There are some numbers on this slide that 3 talk about the number of users who are using Instant 4 Messaging short messaging system. Those are actually 5 forecast numbers, looking at the years 2006, roughly 6 in that time frame. 7 But you can see that text is going to be a 8 very, very important component. So the ultimate goal 9 is total conversation, to all text, to be able to work 10 with voice video, and allow everybody to communicate. 11 Thank you. 12 MR. SNOWDEN: Thank you very much Paul. Tom 13 said something that I thought was very striking. He 14 said he also wants to learn. And that’s something 15 that we here at the FCC want to do. 16 And before we open it up to questions from 17 the audience to the panelists, I wanted to ask the 18 panelists a question. And if each of you want to take 19 it, or some of you, or none of you -- hopefully one of 20 you will. 21 As we at the FCC evaluate the policy 22 approach that we should take for VoIP, what do you 23 consider to be the most critical issue that we 24 consider as we go forward? 25 41 42 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com And then what is the solution that you see 1 in your mind, if there is one at this point, that 2 should be thought through here at the FCC? And I will 3 open it up to anybody who wants to take that first. 4 Harold? 5 MR. SALTERS: Thanks Dane. That is an 6 excellent question. I think that I would say to the 7 FCC that the most important thing is to keep a forward 8 looking focus. 9 And, although it is important to have a 10 bridge between the legacy technology and the future 11 technology, I think the focus has to be more on the 12 future, rather than the specifics of the linkage 13 between legacy and IP. 14 So I would say that to focus on the 15 specifics of it would probably detract from the future 16 focus. 17 MR. SNOWDEN: Thank you, anyone else? 18 Gunnar? 19 MR. HELLSTROM: Be encouraging, invent 20 regulatory measures that are encouraging, stimulating 21 for the industry in some way, not that much chasing 22 and punishing. 23 Be international. Look at what voice 24 telephony is internationally. You can call anywhere 25 42 43 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com with voice. And we need to have the same thing with 1 accessible communication. 2 MR. SNOWDEN: So if I understand you 3 correctly, you are saying get out of the way? 4 MR. HELLSTROM: Did I? 5 MR. SNOWDEN: Make sure that we don’t 6 inhibit the growth the IP related services? 7 MR. HELLSTROM: No, but you can really act 8 positively and be encouraging, buying services, buying 9 development. 10 MR. SNOWDEN: All right. Harold. 11 MR. SALTERS: Dane, just to elaborate on 12 what -- to follow up on what Gunnar said, I think he 13 made an excellent point when he said don't chase and 14 punish. 15 And I think that is -- I think in looking in 16 terms of future regulation, it should be more of an 17 enablement focus, than an enforcement focus, per se. 18 MR. SNOWDEN: Anyone else on the panel want 19 to address that before I open it up? Cary? 20 PARTICIPANT: Again, I think that the FCC 21 needs to spend more of a focus of emergency access. I 22 mean, in the IP world we -- the emergency world and 23 the IP world are not really connected. 24 And we need to look at what technologies are 25 43 44 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com available so that we can make these kind of quick 1 calls. So we need to think especially about the PSAPs 2 and how to get them connected. 3 I mean, there are other areas of improvement 4 needed. But I feel in particular the emergency 5 services needs to be tied in so that we can, you know, 6 pull people away from the TTY. 7 Because, up to this point, they are still 8 tied to the TTY in an emergency. But if we are 9 talking about functional equivalence, we want to 10 untether them. 11 So we would like to move faster in that 12 particular arena. 13 MR. SNOWDEN: Thanks Cary. Other comments 14 from the panel before I open it up? Any questions 15 from the audience here? Yes, sir. If you could 16 remember to state your name. 17 MR. BAILEY: All right, thanks for having us 18 here, it is a great show at the FCC. My name is Bruce 19 Bailey. I am with the U. S. Department of Education. 20 We have be actively migrating the VoIP almost entirely 21 for cost savings reasons. 22 And it has gone very, very well. And one of 23 the things that has gone well is the accommodations 24 that we are providing to our employees that are deaf 25 44 45 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com or blind. 1 We have very good TTY access. We are very 2 pleased with how the progress is going so far. And if 3 there is anyone here that wants to contact us to ask 4 about that, we would be more than pleased to share our 5 progress. 6 My question is really for Cary Barbib, or 7 maybe for Harold Salters. We are also using a lot of 8 the Blackberry, so Mr. Salters showed us the 9 Blackberry. 10 So my question is can you speak to if the 11 accessibility of the Blackberry, in terms of access 12 for people with mobility impairments, TTY access, or 13 some other equivalent facilitation for folks who are 14 blind, because that’s an update probably on any of 15 those accommodations at this point? 16 And then for Cary, I was wondering kind of 17 along the same lines, why don’t you think there’s been 18 a consumer TTY sell device at this point? I mean, it 19 seems to me at this point cell phones are so 20 inexpensive, market forces should be able to support a 21 cellular TTY. Thank you very much. 22 MR. SALTERS: Thanks, I will take that, the 23 first Blackberry question there. I think with the 24 Blackberry and with all the data devices, the 25 45 46 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com compelling application is text itself. 1 And it’s just very liberating. I’ve seen 2 estimates, for instance, from the Sidekick, that ten 3 percent of the market for the sidekick is exclusively 4 people who are deaf or hard- of- hearing. 5 And that’s amazing, in an area of the 6 economy where things don’t tend to be market- driven. 7 It’s really remarkable that you have, you know, ten 8 percent of the market being persons with disabilities. 9 So I think in terms of going forward it has 10 to be, with the Blackberry and the other devices, it 11 has to be can you contact the 911 PSAP? And I think 12 the concept of equal access and functional equivalency 13 brings us to the imperative to get the public safety 14 communities, which are using VoIP the same way the 15 Department of Education is to rationalize and better 16 their internal processes, to take some of that VoIP 17 and focus it externally at how citizens and consumers 18 can contact them using those IP- enabled technologies. 19 PARTICIPANT: Again, this is Cary. In terms 20 of cellular TTYs or having TTY functionality in a 21 Mobile device, right now we are looking at it in a 22 third party type of way. 23 But there is a push to incorporate all these 24 services into one device. There are some services 25 46 47 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com that ride on the date networks so that we can connect 1 to our relay services, we can connect through instant 2 messaging through the relay service. 3 But there is however no current device that 4 uses a voice channel. And I think that is the key. 5 That especially will help us tie into the 911 6 services. 7 Going via the data service, we cannot 8 connect directly to 911 unless the PSAP itself accepts 9 data connections through IP, for example. Then we 10 would be able to connect directly. 11 But up to this point we have not had any 12 devices where that’s built in. So, you know, I really 13 couldn't tell you why that’s not happening, why they 14 are not available. 15 And, in terms of other people with mobility 16 disabilities or visual impairments, I really couldn't 17 respond for them. But I do know that the sidekick is 18 not accessible for people who have low vision because 19 there is not audio feedback, or other types of 20 feedback. 21 Maybe the keyboard is too small for some 22 individuals to use. But there are some other phones, 23 however, that have audio feedback, but not that one 24 that we as the deaf community are using specifically. 25 47 48 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com MR. SNOWDEN: Thank you, Cary. Other 1 questions from the audience? Yes, sir. If you could 2 come to mic. 3 MR. CROWDER: Hi, I am Chuck Crowder out of 4 VIA Inc. You know, I want to respond. I want to make 5 a statement. But I think I want to make this 6 statement more because I happen to be a citizen of the 7 United States. 8 And that is that I agree that you shouldn’t 9 have regulations that punish people or get in the way, 10 but I do think that this is so important that you do 11 need a federal regulation to make sure that people do 12 what they should do. 13 Because it’s so easy for companies to say I 14 didn't do that because of the cost. And they can use 15 that as an excuse at every instance. So you do need 16 federal regulation. 17 And I want to be very clear about that, 18 because I don’t want this notion of oh gee, you know, 19 you’re going to create a barrier, you’re going to get 20 in the way, and so I’m not going to do what’s right. 21 And so that’s my point. I want to make sure 22 that we’re very clear about that. We need to do 23 something in this area. And it is achievable. And we 24 need to make sure that there is a regulation that 25 48 49 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com imposes that upon corporations. Thank you. 1 MR. SNOWDEN: Thank you. To Echo what Bob 2 Pepper was saying, if you would like to stay in your 3 seat, we have a roving mic as well that if you just 4 raise your hand we will send someone over to bring a 5 mic to you. Yes, sir. 6 MR. FREDRICKSON: I have a question I would 7 like to address to Gunnar Hellstrom. 8 MR. SNOWDEN: Could you state your name too, 9 sir? 10 MR. FREDRICKSON: Oh, I’m sorry, apologies. 11 Mark Fredrickson from the company MBurst. Mr. 12 Hellstrom, I was wondering if you could -- what has 13 been mentioned many times as the importance of 14 connections to E911 or emergency services. 15 I was wondering if you can tell me, from 16 your experience, if there are any lessons in the 17 international community of how other countries have 18 connected people with accessibility issues to their 19 various emergencies. 20 Are there any lessons to be learned from 21 other countries that we might adopt here? 22 MR. HELLSTROM: I know at least about how 23 it’s arranged in different countries, mainly for the 24 deaf and hard- of- hearing, for the text access to 25 49 50 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com emergency services. 1 And I don’t think that any solution is 2 perfect. In Europe we have a strict policy that all 3 emergency access should go through the emergency 4 number 112. 5 But, if you look at the situation for text 6 phone access, it is not done that way in many 7 countries. Sweden does it so that the text phone goes 8 through the regular emergency access centers where the 9 calls are too few. 10 So it is a great risk that they are not 11 handled well. Other countries like the UK have a 12 special number that takes all text calls into one 13 central location where they are more knowledgeable 14 about handling text calls. 15 But then it’s a load on the user to remember 16 that strange, different number. Many countries do not 17 at all have any emergency access for other than 18 hearing voice users. 19 So it’s not very much to learn. There has 20 been an interesting committee in Europe called InCom, 21 working with the regulatory recommendations for 22 accessibility last year. 23 And they definitely stressed that the 24 single- number access for text and voice and, in the 25 50 51 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com future, video users, is the goal. 1 MR. SNOWDEN: Thank you. Other questions? 2 There’s a hand back here. 3 MR. ODOM: Hi, my name is Jesse Odom from Go 4 America. And I had a question for Paul. Paul, you 5 and I talked one not too long ago about text over IP 6 going through the PSTN. 7 And you showed the slide with all the 8 different protocols that you are working through the 9 ITU to get standardized. What is it going to take for 10 the actual PSTN implementation of this so people 11 understand what the road blocks may be in actually get 12 some of these things through for use? 13 MR. JONES: Thank you. I don’t think that 14 there are any issues for the PSTN at this point. It 15 is pretty fixed. So we look at that as a fixed 16 network. 17 Everything that has to be done is on the IP 18 side. So I think the biggest hurtle is understanding 19 all of the various TTY types that are out there in the 20 world. 21 In the United States, I guess we are 22 fortunate, and maybe unfortunate, that we primarily 23 have Baudot. But not only Baudot, there are actually 24 some proprietary protocols that are also being used by 25 51 52 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com the deaf. 1 This is a concern. How can we bring those 2 proprietary protocols over? We can’t standardize 3 them. This is an issue. So we are focusing on, in 4 the standards bodies, of just Baudot at this point. 5 Of course, for the rest of the world, we are 6 also focusing on every TTY type that’s being used in 7 every other country. For the U. S. it is a Baudot only 8 focus. 9 So I think the hurtles are, if you speak of 10 just the U. S., it’s getting Baudot’s support on the 11 gateways to interface between the PSTN and the IP 12 networks. 13 For the rest of the world it is the same 14 thing. But it’s whichever protocol is being used in 15 each country. For manufacturers such as SYSCO, we are 16 building gateways for deployment in every country in 17 the world. 18 Of course that makes it much more difficult 19 in that we have to focus on -- we have to be able to 20 put the functionality into the gateway to support 21 every one of those protocols. 22 And that takes time. It’s actually not as 23 easy a task as I had thought it might be when I set 24 out working on this. But it’s certainly something 25 52 53 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com that we’re driving hard toward. Did that answer your 1 question? 2 MR. ODOM: I think so, thanks a lot Paul. 3 MR. JONES: Thank you. 4 MR. HELLSTROM: I can add that, did you see 5 the cloud diagram in my presentation with the IP 6 network and the PSTN network and connected with the 7 text and voice gateways? 8 That is a real network. We have it up and 9 running. And we have been in a European project for a 10 mobile communication for the deaf where we implemented 11 a small gateway for text telephony into IP form of 12 text standard. 13 So it’s doable. And we have done it. But, 14 of course, it needs to upscaled, and we need further 15 projects to do things. And we have other projects 16 going one. 17 The real challenge is to go into the major 18 IP gateways to get them to understand TTY, which takes 19 some power of their processors. 20 MR. SNOWDEN: We will take one more question 21 from the back of the room here. 22 MS. ROSE: I’m Ms. Rose, Department of 23 Veteran’s Affairs. This is for Tom Wlodkowski from 24 AOL. I am a line person myself, and I was assisting 25 53 54 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com another new customer to load version 9 of the AOL 1 software on their PC. 2 And though I was able to do it, the 3 installation was somewhat difficult, really would 4 require someone with some intermediate screen reader 5 experience. 6 And then we tried to use the email and found 7 that not to be particularly accessible. So I was 8 thinking I could possibly use another mail product 9 that I know works better with screen reader programs. 10 But when I called your technical support 11 they said this was not possible. So I was just 12 curious to ask you is that true, or are they getting 13 ready to put out another version of the email that 14 would work better with the various screen readers that 15 are out there? Thank you. 16 MR. WLODKOWSKI: Well thank you. Certainly 17 you can now use other email clients to get at AOL. We 18 just announced that last week. We have opened it up 19 to Outlook and Outlook Express and other email 20 clients. 21 WE can certainly talk offline and get that 22 information over to you. I would also be curious to 23 hear what the issues were with 9.0. Certainly I use 24 the mail program as a blind user, probably 25 54 55 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com affectively. 1 And no others do as well. And so, perhaps 2 there was a screen reader issue in terms of version 3 that you were using, or what have you. But, basically 4 our rule of thumb right now is working with the latest 5 versions of Jaws and Window Eyes with the latest 6 version of the AOL software. 7 We are furthest along with Jaws at this 8 point. And it is still very much a collaborative 9 effort where we retain consulting services from an 10 organization like Freedom Scientific to literally 11 build the customization that’s necessary. 12 I think later this year you will actually 13 find a product that’s coming out to support our 14 broadband initiatives. You’ll also be able to use it 15 in dialup. 16 That will really bring us into parody with 17 some of the other email clients that you mentioned. 18 And that’s going to be beta here in the next four to 19 six weeks. 20 And then it will release later this fall. 21 So hopefully we can catch up offline and I would love 22 to get you or your colleague up and running helping us 23 test that product. 24 MR. SNOWDEN: Thank you Tom. One more 25 55 56 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com question. 1 MR. OBREY: Ronald Obrey with Hands On video 2 relay service. I’d like the FCC to take into 3 consideration to maybe encourage and enhance providers 4 that are coming into the market, as far as 3G and 5 other broadband wireless services that will enhance 6 people that use sign language as their primary mode of 7 communication. 8 So they’ll have an alternative to text- based 9 messaging. Most of the deaf people that use sign 10 language as their primary mode of communication I 11 think are very excited to see some of the other 12 countries in the world have the speeds that enable 13 wireless devices to do sign language, thank you. 14 MR. SNOWDEN: Thank you. We want to take a 15 quick seven minute break so we can stay on schedule. 16 But before we do, how about a round of applause for 17 our panelists here. We will re- adjourn at 10: 45. 18 (Whereupon the above- entitled matter went 19 off the record at 10: 35 a. m., and went back on the 20 record at 10: 47 a. m.) 21 DR. PEPPER: We heard on the first panel 22 some of the opportunities. And we also began to hear 23 some of the questions that are being raised about the 24 move to IP- enabled services and Voice Over IP. 25 56 57 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com And now on the second panel we are going to 1 focus on some of the additional challenges as a result 2 of the shift to IP- enabled services. If we could have 3 people move. 4 I think the coffee and the sweets are 5 competing with the panel. Our first speaker is Brenda 6 Battat, who is a long time advocate for the rights of 7 people with disabilities. 8 She currently is Senior Director of Policy 9 and Development for Self Help for the hard- of- hearing 10 people. She’s a former member of the FCC’s consumer 11 and disability telecommunications advisory committee. 12 She currently serves on the AT& T consumer 13 strategies and issues council, the Northwest Airlines 14 travelers with disabilities advisory committee has 15 been very active. So Brenda, thank you for being 16 here. 17 PANEL TWO 18 MS. BATTAT: Thank you very much. I am 19 pleased to be here. The first slide I just put up to 20 remind everybody about the need. And I think the 21 demographics here, I just wanted to remind you about 22 the demographics, and really to show the business 23 imperative. 24 And the question whether or not it is going 25 57 58 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com to be a business imperative. And some of these 1 numbers, as you can see up here, are eye openers. A 2 huge number, one out of five people with disabilities, 3 and disposable income, and the trillion level. 4 And baby boomers now turning 50 every seven 5 seconds, and people losing their hearing now at 50. 6 So these are just purely to say is this going to be 7 enough to make it a business imperative? 8 We’ll find out. I know this panel is about 9 barriers. But I guess when I think about this I see 10 it more in terms of opportunities. Although our 11 question is, you know, how we are going to make it 12 happen. 13 A lot of people have already talked about 14 redundancy. And from my perspective redundancy is the 15 basis of access. And Voice Over IP really offers 16 that. 17 But can we get there quickly enough? I am 18 very concerned. You know, they are predicting 50 19 percent of businesses will be using VoIP by 2006, and 20 about 40 percent of all U. S. phones by 2009. 21 You know, are we going to get there quickly 22 enough even though there are a lot of opportunities? 23 Some of the other opportunities are already happening 24 now with several hard- of- hearing people using some of 25 58 59 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com these upstart telephone company services. 1 Getting for 15 dollars a month just about 2 every bell and whistle that you can possibly think 3 about. So, the other attraction for some people, 4 assuming they have access to broadband of course, is 5 that it can provide them with fairly affordable 6 services. 7 I thought one of the things to talk about -- 8 the barriers -- would be to also tell you some of the 9 things that people who are hard- of- hearing need. And, 10 you know, we have talked a lot about mobile services, 11 mobile focus, which is really important. 12 But what about using it in your home? 13 Several other things that need to be connected with 14 that whole system to make it work, the hardware. And 15 we are running in with, people who are hard- of- hearing 16 are running into a lot of problems with that. 17 But anyway, let’s looks at some of the 18 features. Some of these are already available. And 19 the question is we don’t want to lose them. And some 20 of them are more like a wish- list, but we believe 21 could be possible, because of the opportunities that 22 Voice Over IP offers. 23 So we are talking basic things like clear, 24 strong, high quality signal for speech and tele- coil. 25 59 60 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com It is very important for hard- of- hearing people. 1 Adequate volume control, and this is a lot 2 of times on the hardware piece of it. Adequate volume 3 control easily manipulated. Tele- coil compatibility 4 without interference for people using it with their 5 cochlear implants and their hearing aids. 6 Simultaneous voice and text display, we have 7 that now with their preferred relay, which is 8 captioned. Are we going to be able to keep that? We 9 don’t know. 10 From what I’m hearing, if it’s compatible 11 with a fax we will be able to. But we don’t know for 12 sure. But we do want to keep that capability, because 13 people hard of hearing can hear some of it. 14 But they want to be able to read at the same 15 time, particularly older people. Now, I know these 16 baby- boomers that are coming along. Also being able 17 to output a jack with sufficient power to use 18 assistive listening devices, neck loops, and such in 19 the hardware piece of it. 20 High quality video just around the mouth, 30 21 frames a second, or faster, you know, just being able 22 to have a piece of that video that will give you 23 enough speed that speech reading will be accessible. 24 We have already talked about simultaneous 25 60 61 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com audio and video a lot. But also the ability to add 1 text to voice calls. And it would stream in an 2 incoming call. 3 Let’s not forget about incoming calls. We 4 are on a call, and we think we are doing okay, and all 5 of a sudden we start to realize this is somebody we 6 just cannot hear. 7 Can we then immediately bring in text to 8 that call? That’s very important for hard- of- hearing 9 people. An ability to initiate three- way- calling both 10 for incoming and outgoing calls, which at the moment 11 is not something that can happen. 12 That should be. That’s on our wish- list. 13 But I think that could be something that we could hope 14 for. We have talked a lot about emergency. I don’t 15 need to get into that. 16 The ability to connect and to relay into a 17 call at any time, a call that is not a relay, but you 18 want to bring it in to a call when you are suddenly 19 running into problems. 20 And maybe, in terms of getting less error 21 when you are looking at speech recognition in the 22 future, to have less error, to enable hearing callers 23 to use their own speech recognition on their end. 24 So each have their own speech recognition on 25 61 62 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com either end. So, I’m here talking a little bit more 1 about existing hardware that’s not accessible. Many 2 people are setting up Voice Over IP. 3 And their preferred way seems to be to do it 4 with extendible cordless phones. And right now, even 5 though those phones are regulated, they are not in 6 many times accessible, because they are starting to 7 create interference because they have gone digital, if 8 I put it like that. 9 So we are running into trouble with people 10 finding that that’s the best way to use Voice Over IP. 11 But they can’t because the hardware is not accessible. 12 So what are we going to do about that? 13 And, you know, we have talked about whether 14 or not there should be enforcement versus, you know, 15 dangling a carrot. We already have laws in place. 16 And one of the big barriers that we’re facing right 17 now is that they are not being strongly enough 18 enforced. 19 And that is definitely going to impact hard- 20 of- hearing people’s ability to use Voice Over IP. So 21 we really have to look at that very seriously. And 22 then I think right now there’s the whole uncertainty 23 of where Voice Over IP actually fits in to the 24 telecommunications structure. 25 62 63 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com Is it going to be regulated? You know, 1 based on history, and this is being said over and over 2 again, that really is the only way that we do get 3 access. 4 And even then it is hard to make it happen, 5 because of the enforcement situation, it’s not always 6 as effective as it should be or it might be. I think 7 the issue here is that a decision needs to be made 8 very quickly by the FCC about this, because Voice Over 9 IP is rolling out extremely quickly, very fast. 10 And we are going to be -- I see us being in 11 a situation that we’ve been in before where, you know, 12 we are playing catch- up all over again because we just 13 have missed the boat in terms of getting started 14 quickly enough. 15 And there are leaders here, and companies 16 that are obviously making efforts to make sure that 17 they do have access in their systems. But what about 18 all the other companies out there that are not 19 represented here today, and are not as focused as 20 these companies who are here today. Thank you. 21 DR. PEPPER: Thank you Brenda. Our next 22 speaker is Barry Andrews, who is trained as an 23 Engineer. And he is President of 8x8. 8x8 is a Voice 24 Over IP service provider. 25 63 64 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com And so Barry is going to focus on the 1 questions from the perspective of somebody who is 2 actually providing Voice Over IP. 3 MR. ANDREWS: Thank you, I didn't get my 4 slides in on time, so if anyone would like a copy, 5 please send me an email or see me after the talk. 6 DR. PEPPER: They also will be posted on our 7 website with the others. 8 MR. ANDREWS: Okay, great. The continuing 9 rapid adoption of broadband internet access is one of 10 the major factors that is driving the growing Voice 11 Over IP market. 12 Services -- and by that I mean voice, video, 13 and text -- can be delivered reliably and cost 14 effectively over IP networks. There are challenges 15 that are presented by IP- enabled services. 16 Some of these have been discussed already, 17 and a number will be discussed in the 911 regulatory 18 panel. Those include usability and accessibility. We 19 want a service that’s easy to use by all. 20 Quality, especially as it relates to video 21 and the requirements for bandwidth, as well as video 22 and audio sync. Interoperability, the joke is, you 23 know, the nice thing about standards is there’s so 24 many to choose from. 25 64 65 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com But that doesn't help when you’re trying to 1 communicate with other vendors. And public service 2 and safety, including such things as rural access. In 3 my very brief talk today I’m going to attempt to do a 4 demo of one such service called Packet 8 that our 5 company offers. 6 It’s an example today of a voice and video 7 over IP. And because I’m worried about running out of 8 time, I’m actually going to state my conclusion right 9 now. 10 And that is voice, video, and text in a 11 universal service over IP with global interoperability 12 presents the opportunity to improve personal 13 communication for everyone. 14 So, very quickly, Packet 8, a description, 15 and then the demo. Packet 8 is an end- to- end voice, 16 and/ or video communication service that operates over 17 the internet. 18 It allows calls to or from any phone in the 19 world, including traditional telephones. And it uses 20 regular telephone numbers currently assigned from the 21 U. S. 22 It enables high quality voice and video 23 calls dependant on your video bandwidth that you might 24 have home or your office, or wherever. Subscribers 25 65 66 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com can choose the use of a traditional analog telephone 1 to connect to the audio adapter, their computer, a 2 cell phone, or a video phone to place calls. 3 It’s extremely simple to install. It 4 requires only the terminal adapter or video phone. 5 Basically plug it in and have a dial tone. My two 6 year old daughter can operate the video phone. 7 For her, you know, making a phone call means 8 a video call. She’s at that age she knows nothing 9 else other than talking to daddy on the video phone. 10 Set up is managed and billed via the internet. 11 This is perhaps a subset of the diagram that 12 Gunnar was showing earlier in the first panel. Our 13 service is also based on SIP. And I’m happy to say I 14 have not talked to Gunnar at all. 15 But the set of protocols that we are using 16 very closely matches what he described as the 17 preferred setup protocols. Okay, so we will see if 18 Murphy’s law doesn't take effect. 19 So, this is the video phone. I think I have 20 people here at the FCC that can vouch that, you know, 21 they did no special configuration of their firewall. 22 We basically just plugged it in. 23 DR. PEPPER: Can you give him the handheld 24 mic or -- there we go. 25 66 67 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com MR. ANDREWS: So I’m calling a San Jose, 1 California number. And actually I dialed the wrong 2 number. But this is my daughter Janette at home. I 3 sweetie, how are you doing. 4 She’s my five year old. But the two year 5 old is hiding somewhere there as well. She can use 6 the video phone. Okay. Hi girls. I think they sense 7 someone else is here. 8 Let me try another number. Okay, this one 9 is different by one digit. Hello Richard. Richard is 10 actually a former employee of 8x8 when we had our via- 11 TV line of video phones. 12 And he was instrumental in enabling that 13 device for text over a POTS video phone. These are 14 similar type things that we are working on with the 15 Packet 8 service today. 16 Hi Richard, how’s the weather in California? 17 Okay, so we are somewhat limited by the bandwidth 18 here, but you can see that it does work today. This 19 is real, this is something that’s offered now. 20 Thank you, Richard, good- bye. Okay, I’m not 21 sure where we are time- wise. I do have a little bit 22 of time. And maybe I will just point out that I go 23 into more detail on some of the usability requirements 24 in the last two slides. 25 67 68 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com Of particular interest are things that are 1 outside of our control as a service provider, are, for 2 example, the bandwidth. DSL is typically you have a 3 downstream of 384 Kbs per second or greater. 4 But the upstream is limited to 128. Video 5 and audio over IP are symmetric in terms of their 6 bandwidth requirements. The first call I made was 7 actually to my home. 8 We have cable there. The upstream bandwidth 9 there is better than DSL, it is 256. And, of course, 10 the more the better. Gunnar mentioned H. 263 is a very 11 common and very well known video codec. 12 And there’s actually a lot of activity 13 within the ITU on enhanced video codec such as H. 264. 14 All right, I see I’m out of time. There is another 15 slide here if anyone wants to read more. Thank you 16 very much. 17 DR. PEPPER: Thank you. Our next speaker is 18 Claude Stout. Claude has been a frequent participant 19 here at the FCC in a variety of forms. He’s currently 20 Executive Director of Telecommunications for the deaf, 21 TDI. 22 TDI is a national non- profit advocacy 23 organization that promotes equal access to 24 telecommunications and media for deaf people in the 25 68 69 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com United States, as well as people hard- of- hearing and 1 deaf/ blind. 2 Prior to TDI, Mr. Stout was the Assistant 3 Director of Community Affairs with North Carolina 4 Division of Services for the deaf and hard- of- hearing. 5 Claude, I am very pleased to see you again. And we 6 are looking forward to your presentation. 7 MR. STOUT: Thank you. It is good to see 8 everyone here today. Brenda talked from the 9 perspective of hard- of- hearing people in America. I 10 am going to speak from the perspective of deaf, late- 11 deafened, and deaf/ blind Americans. 12 We in America who are late- deaf, and deaf, 13 and deaf/ blind get more encouraged by the advent of 14 VoIP and the internet capable services throughout 15 America. 16 And we are already enjoying some services in 17 that arena. For example, right now we are enjoying 18 internet relay services. I have to tell you we don’t 19 have to bother with our TTYs. 20 We just have our computer on our desk. We 21 can put aside that TTY and just move forward using our 22 computer. And it’s just in a window on our computer. 23 And we can move to relay service, video relay service, 24 or a Microsoft Word document and transition between 25 69 70 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com those applications very seamlessly. 1 The other thing we enjoy using is the new 2 video relay services that have been in existence for a 3 short time now. And they are amazing for the 4 community. 5 And I have to let you know that VRS is not 6 an add- on service. It’s not an added value service 7 for us. It’s really not. It is approaching 8 functional equivalency for us more than any other 9 service. 10 VRS allows me to use my native language to 11 communicate with an interpreter through my computer 12 and a webcam, and then communicate to a hearing person 13 on the other end of the call. 14 And it goes quickly. The hearing person is 15 going to be much more eager to receive phone calls for 16 me because there’s not delay that’s experienced 17 through a traditional relay call in the turn taking 18 that’s necessary there. 19 And as we experience these IP services, 20 these basic services, we are now seeing that we are 21 leaving the traditional services behind, that we are 22 now ready to dive into the multimedia and to, you 23 know, distance ourselves from using those traditional 24 devices and services, and be able to use, you know, 25 70 71 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com the other multimedia services that are out there, like 1 have been presented this morning. 2 There’s a multimedia approach that can be 3 used for audio text. Voice and video all integrated 4 into one product that is very exciting for us. Please 5 know that deaf people have been involved with advocacy 6 for many years. 7 Some of us for 30 years. Some of us who 8 have lived a long time have been in it for 40 or 50 9 years, you know. And we feel we have seen such great 10 changes in access, and that more access will be 11 granted as regulations and those things are developed 12 that will help move the technology forward. 13 A lot of this effort has been by volunteers 14 or by companies just out of the goodness of their 15 hearts developing these products. And we encourage 16 that voluntary participation from companies throughout 17 the United States that have done that. 18 But in order to get more services for us to 19 be able to see cost reductions and to be able to have, 20 you know, more convenience and enjoy better customer 21 care, we want to see a more diversity of services out 22 there, more things developed in the IP arena for 23 people with disabilities. 24 Broadband is now spreading across America. 25 71 72 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com But we need to have research and rules created that 1 allow us to enjoy the most of broadband. Right now, 2 as we have talked about with video services, sometimes 3 we experience reduced frame rates that impede the 4 quality. 5 Maybe in a workplace we can’t make a call 6 because of a firewall that’s set up that doesn't allow 7 a video call to be made. We need, you know, work- 8 arounds to be set up that still maintain the security 9 of the system for companies. 10 Many of us use computers in libraries and 11 schools. And many of us in our community are poor and 12 don’t have computers at home. And we depend on 13 support from universal services funds that allow us to 14 have access to the technology that we do need. 15 Many of us, you know, have phone lines that 16 cost a certain amount of money. We need to have a fee 17 structure set up that will no longer rely on just the 18 phone service fees only, but will allow IP fee 19 structures to be incorporated there. 20 We are also looking at, you know, different 21 economic situations, and educational situations, 22 people that are very good in English, or other folks 23 that because English is their second language they are 24 not as strong in that language. 25 72 73 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com Other people who are underemployed because 1 of their disability that don’t have the money or the 2 funds to be able to access the technology that gives 3 them full access. 4 There’s lots of areas where there seems to 5 be a focus on the high- need areas. But there’s also 6 people that may seem to have a low need that still 7 need access to this technology. 8 This IP technology, you know, shouldn’t push 9 us into another valley. But it should, as products 10 are developed, and services are developed, it should 11 lead us along with the rest of society in being able 12 to take advantage of these products and services that 13 are developed. 14 Technology means freedom for us. It 15 enlarges and expands the playing field for us in 16 employment, in education, in community, and other 17 arenas in our lives. 18 I’d like to emphasize to the IP developers 19 out there, the companies and the developers, that when 20 you design and develop products and services please 21 consider our needs, not just develop a great product 22 and then say, oh, I forgot to meet the deaf and hard- 23 of- hearing needs 24 And now what are we going to do with this? 25 73 74 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com We are going to have to reverse engineer or do an ad- 1 on or something. If you think of our needs first, 2 don’t assume those needs, ask us. 3 Definitely ask our needs. Ask people. Go 4 out in the communities, ask people throughout the 5 nation what their needs are and build them in from the 6 ground level. 7 We applaud Gunnar and others like him who 8 have, you know, encouraged the production of 9 multimedia, audio, text, and video services all 10 combined into one product so that we can have our 11 everyday needs taken care of. 12 There’s a variety of degrees of hearing loss 13 out there. There’s a variety of degrees of vision 14 loss out there. And all of those needs need to be 15 considered. Thank you very much. 16 DR. PEPPER: Thank you, Claude. Our next 17 speaker is Jim Tobias. Jim is President of Inclusive 18 Technologies, and is working with the field of 19 technology and disabilities for about 25 years. 20 He currently is providing consulting 21 services and telecommunications and disability, aging, 22 and education. He was a member of the Access Board’s 23 Telecommunication Accessibility Advisory Committee 24 responsible for drafting section 225 regulations. 25 74 75 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com And he’s also an Alum of the FCC’s first 1 consumer disabilities technical advisory committee. 2 So thank you very much Jim. 3 MR. TOBIAS: Thanks. I want to talk today 4 about what I consider to be the worst functional 5 limitation that could be imposed by the migration to 6 Voice Over IP or IP- enabled services. 7 And that is in an information age not 8 knowing is the worst disability, the worst functional 9 limitation that a person can have. When we are 10 offered a range of products that allow us to perform 11 almost infinite combinations of services -- we’ve 12 heard about voice and text, and video, and automatic 13 translation -- we have to remember that a product with 14 infinite functionality, has an infinitely long 15 configuration system, with an infinite number of 16 wizard screens that take an infinite amount of time to 17 figure out which check box and which radio button do I 18 implement here. 19 And this is not just a theoretical barrier. 20 This is an actual barrier. If you look at the way to 21 implement TTY compatibility on today’s generation of 22 cell phones, you find that it’s rather deep in the 23 menu. 24 How are consumers expected to find that 25 75 76 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com information? How deep down do they have to dive into 1 the manual of an accessible mainstream product to find 2 the feature that they need to turn on or turn off in 3 order to make it work the way they need to? 4 So this profound lack of information appears 5 as a barrier to individuals with disabilities. And we 6 see this in the outcomes. And to answer Dane’s 7 question, which wasn’t asked of this panel, but I will 8 answer it anyway, what is the approach that the 9 Commission by profitably take to address 10 accessibility? 11 I would say an outcomes oriented approach, 12 not an approach that says here are the regulations, 13 and here is the lack of complaints, which indicates 14 that there must be the right amount of compliance. 15 But what percentage of people with 16 disabilities can access what reasonable market basket 17 of services in the world of telecommunications given 18 the combination of mainstream technologies and 19 assistive technologies? 20 Are we actually showing an improvement in 21 people’s live and abilities to communicate in this 22 information age? So if people don’t know about the 23 services and features and products that are 24 accessible, it’s just as if they were never made 25 76 77 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com available at all. 1 If we let ourselves live at the abstract 2 level of oh yeah, it’s in there somewhere, we haven’t 3 really performed the public service that I think we 4 want to perform. 5 It would be great if the only people who 6 lacked information were the consumers. But in point 7 of fact, those of us who have worked with industry 8 over the years recognize that industry has its own, 9 you know, I don't know what I don't know to channel 10 the Secretary of Defense. 11 By the way, he’s still Secretary of Defense. 12 I haven’t checked the news this morning. But industry 13 very often doesn't know what it doesn't know about 14 accessibility. 15 And they recognize that, and they are 16 willing to learn. But, again, those of us who have 17 worked with industry over the years, find the irony 18 that just when we’ve managed to train up the right 19 staffer, in the right job, in the right company, 20 there’s some turn, there’s some re- engineering, a re- 21 org. 22 Or that person retires or finds, imagine it, 23 a better job than working on accessibility within that 24 company. And so we begin the process all over again. 25 77 78 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com So there is an organizational ignorance, or a lack of 1 organizational memory in large mainstream companies 2 that occurs. 3 And we see it going on now with, you know, 4 large scale retirements. We have lost many of our 5 accessibility champions and technology experts within 6 mainstream companies. 7 So that’s an issue that we have to resolve 8 somehow, not by locking people into their jobs, but 9 figuring out some way to make sure that information 10 reaches the right people in industry at the right 11 moment. 12 Policy makers also have their own areas of 13 ignorance. And I will leave that sentence without any 14 implications. And again, to focus on outcomes, for a 15 political environment that focuses so much on market 16 realities, this is an area where I think it is highly 17 justified. 18 But it’s an area where ignorance is endemic. 19 What do we know about TTY users as a market? What do 20 we know about relay users as a market? What do we 21 know about screen- reader users as a market? 22 Both the current users and the potential 23 users, we hardly know anything about them. We wind up 24 using anecdotal experience, oh so and so now has a 25 78 79 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com Blackberry, and they’re not using their TTY anymore. 1 I guarantee that that’s true. What 2 percentage of the adoption curve, if you think of the 3 innovators and early adopters, what percentage have 4 already moved and migrated away from some of the 5 legacy equipment and into two- way text, and text over 6 IP, and what have you? 7 And what percentage have been left behind, 8 and maybe left behind if we don’t take some concerted 9 social policy action? It’s almost enough to get you 10 to believe in the existence of a digital divide, if we 11 didn't know better. 12 I’d like to sort of end this dreary 13 exposition with a little bit of hope. We do see 14 companies that are actively reaching out to understand 15 what consumers’ needs are, and to get beyond just the 16 anecdote level, or the assumption level, actually 17 doing primary market research on customers with 18 disabilities, fantastic stuff. 19 We find advocacy organizations doing the 20 same kind of work, asking their members what you use, 21 why did you change what you used to us? And as a 22 final point, I want to emphasize the initiative taken 23 on by the Alliance for Telecom Industry Solutions, 24 which is an industry body that coordinates information 25 79 80 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com for the sake of manufacturers and telecom carriers, 1 etcetera. 2 It is now moving towards the establishment 3 of a telecom accessibility council based on its 4 experience with stake holders from the disability 5 communities, researchers, policy makers, and people in 6 industry. 7 This is a new initiative. And we have 8 already talked to most of the industry stake holders 9 in the room. If you’d like to follow up on it, get 10 information, you can find information about it on the 11 website that we distributed about, or at atis. org. 12 Thank you. 13 DR. PEPPER: Thank you very much. Thanks 14 Jim. Our final speaker on the panel before we open it 15 up is Nate Wilcox. Nate is the Systems Administrative 16 for the Vermont Enhanced 911 Program. 17 The program oversees a multiple public 18 safety answering point, PSAP, system. And it was 19 recently used as a benchmark system for the report 20 card to the nation on 911 that was presented to 21 congress a couple of years ago. 22 Nate is the Chair of the Voice Over IP 23 Packet Technical Committee of NENA, which is the 24 National Emergency Number Association. And he is 25 80 81 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com recognized as an industry leader for Voice Over IP 1 technical advancements within the 911 community. 2 And I have met Nate at multiple Voice Over 3 IP meetings. And I know that he has been working, and 4 his group has been working, very, very hard. And I’m 5 glad Nate that you are here as a 911 person, because 6 you have already hear multiple people talk about the 7 importance of E911, 911, not just in and of itself, 8 but particularly for people with disabilities. So, 9 Nate? 10 MR. WILCOX: Thank you Bob. And I am 11 absolutely glad to be here. I was not able to make 12 the E911 summit we had last time here at the FCC. My 13 boss was here, Evelyn Bailey. 14 And she generally talks within that arena. 15 However, I am here to talk about good things within 16 911. I have good news. Because all I have heard so 17 far this morning really is that there’s a true 18 barrier, right, to 911, and in particular for the 19 disabled community. 20 So I have good news. I am here to talk on 21 behalf of the small and overworked group of dedicated 22 911 individuals within the 911 community that are 23 working to enable IP connectivity within the 911 PSAP 24 nationwide. 25 81 82 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com Not only nationwide, but on a global effort. 1 And we are finally seeing the light of day from those 2 efforts that we have been undertaking for about three 3 years now, because of the adoption of consumer VoIP 4 services and the recognition now. 5 That’s not to say that we’re not still in 6 the requirements of analysis stage. So clearly what’s 7 brought out from you folks will be brought back into 8 the design of the new 911, the future 911, which will 9 be wholly VoIP enabled, is the thought process. 10 So what needs to happen -- it’s a paradigm 11 shift -- we have to think differently within 911. And 12 along those lines, I’m going to talk about challenges 13 that we are facing, and some of the solutions that we 14 envision to those challenges. 15 A lot of those challenges that we’re facing 16 in 911 are challenges that are similar across the 17 board for 911. They impact everybody, regardless of 18 who uses the VoIP phone or that mode of connectivity, 19 it impacts everybody. 20 I’m also going to provide some solutions. 21 So I was a little confused as to what lies truly 22 beyond. It seems like 911 always winds up on the 23 challenges side of it. 24 But really there’s some opportunities there 25 82 83 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com as well that we can certainly provide. I will talk 1 about nomadic user, nomadic VoIP users. I will talk 2 about TTYs and some of the challenges there. 3 I will talk about the lack of a standardized 4 approach to IP communication enhancements. And I will 5 hit on QoS on an end- to- end IP communication system 6 where 911 is at one end and the consumer VoIP user is 7 at the other end. 8 And then I will talk a little bit about 9 what’s going on right now within this arena. So 10 nomadic VoIP users, these are the guys that take the 11 8x8 telephone adapter to their hotel room, plug it in, 12 and they get phone service, okay. 13 Within 911 we count on the user without 14 considering wireless or sedative callers to be 15 stationary. They are at the end of a pair of wires, 16 and we always know where they are. 17 And they will always have the same address. 18 The process for validating that location information 19 takes about 24 hours with the phone company. So when 20 I get my new phone service, 24 hours later, my 21 location information is validated through a process. 22 The problem with VoIP is now I can take my 23 telephone adapter, plug it into an Ethernet connection 24 anywhere, and have a location information. But I have 25 83 84 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com to go through the 24 hour period of having that 1 location information validated, which by the way 2 hasn’t been enabled for Voice Over IP yet. 3 And one of the serious benefits of VoIP is 4 to be able to take that telephone adapter with me back 5 and forth to the office, have the same number at the 6 office as I do at home. 7 So, I’m clearly breaking the 24 hour rule 8 right away. So what we have to do is we have to 9 create a paradigm shift for broadband service 10 providers, those folks that provide the IP services to 11 be able to validate that location information in 12 advance before I ever plug in my telephone adapter. 13 That’s a paradigm shift that needs to occur 14 for nomadic VoIP users. TTYs, I think we all are 15 pretty familiar on some of the negative impacts on 16 TTYs when you start to use them over Voice Over IP or 17 IP- enabled circuits. 18 The reality is that the total character 19 error rate for TTYs could create a situation in which 20 dropped packets, which is normal within an IP network, 21 you know, packet loss is normal. 22 IP communications on the whole are designed 23 to preserve bandwidth. And part of that preservation 24 is packet loss. So those dropped packets can actually 25 84 85 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com drop control characters. 1 We all know that. They can actually drop 2 TTY conversations all together, immediately. It’s not 3 a great situation to be in for the 911 call takers, 4 certainly not a great situation to be in for the TTY 5 user who is relying on these communications to 6 continue. 7 So the paradigm shift for TTYs, we need to 8 ensure a compressionless as possible compressionless 9 codec that’s used for 911. And I have G. 711 up there 10 as an example. 11 It seems to work well for TTYs. There are 12 others out there as well. We need to promote 13 technologies that improve through- put, and use of 14 alternate communication methods as well to provide 15 TTYs. 16 I’m talking about SMS, two- way paging, real- 17 time text messaging, those types of communications. 18 So that’s a shift that needs to occur within that 19 arena. 20 The lack of a standardized approach, I 21 recognize the fact that instant messaging, chat 22 sessions, and other modes of communication are 23 catching on more and more within the disabled 24 community. 25 85 86 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com And clearly the need has to be that that 1 should be supported at the PSAP site, at the Public 2 Safety Answering Point. It is unofficially supported 3 now. 4 If you walk into a PSAP, nine times out of 5 ten, a lot of those call takers are already using 6 chats and instant messaging for their coworkers and 7 family. 8 So, unofficially, it is supported. 9 Officially it needs to be adopted, right? Full 10 streaming video isn’t supported, and simply because IP 11 connectivity within PSAP is not inherent. 12 So we need to create a platform that calls 13 for a standardized approach to all these technologies. 14 And we need to migrate this capability not only to the 15 911 PSAP, but beyond to the emergency responders as 16 well, so they can participate in any of this 17 information that’s coming into the PSAP environment. 18 Quality of service, I’m not going to go over 19 that too much. Clearly background noises and other 20 elements associated with Voice Over IP can create 21 problems for 911 calls. 22 So, in that regard, the paradigm shift is to 23 provide and support better technologies to support 24 that. So what’s being done? And I’ve got maybe ten 25 86 87 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com seconds left here. 1 The National Emergency Number Association 2 has been working, as I mentioned, through both the 3 technical and operation side of the house these 4 issues. 5 We have several folks involved within the 6 process, including folks from within the ITF and other 7 organizations similar to that. Our plan is to gain 8 ANSI accreditation for the standards that come out of 9 that effort. 10 And, like I said, we are at the requirements 11 analysis phase. So there is plenty of opportunity for 12 more input there. We are looking at an immediate 13 solution for Voice Over IP which will not provide 14 nomadic or mobile support to be available this month. 15 In fact, the standard is written. An 16 analogous solution for current 911 processes, 17 including the ability to locate nomadic callers will 18 be done by the end of they year. 19 But the real cool product, which will bring 20 IP into the PSAP, which is the native end- to- end VoIP 21 with ongoing support for communications at all levels 22 will begin later this year to be completed, we hope, 23 by mid year, next year. Thanks. 24 DR. PEPPER: Thank you Nate. That actually 25 87 88 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com is good news, I mean some optimism. And I think some 1 of this came out of the meeting we had about six weeks 2 ago here on the E911. 3 So I’m hoping that similar progress can come 4 out of today’s meeting. That would be terrific. 5 Again, there’s two microphones, plus a roving 6 microphone for people who have questions. 7 Let me just start off. I thought Jim made a 8 really important point that if you have to retrofit 9 capabilities it can be very expensive, very difficult, 10 a stranded investment, people’s equipment won’t work. 11 On the other hand, since in an IP world we 12 are largely working in a world of software where the 13 incremental costs of designing functionality in at the 14 beginning are very low, that, you know, the goal here 15 is, you know, identify what the requirements are, 16 similar to what Nate’s been talking about in the E911 17 world. 18 Identify the requirements at the very 19 beginning, design them in from the beginning. If you 20 design them in from the beginning not only are they 21 there, the cost of doing it is greatly reduced. 22 So one of the questions is how do we begin, 23 first of all, how are we doing on that part of the 24 process in terms of designing in capabilities for 25 88 89 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com disabilities access particularly in Voice Over IP but 1 other IP- enabled services? 2 And what suggestions do you have to identify 3 those requirements and work with the vendors, the 4 equipment designers, the software designers? Jim, why 5 don’t you start off? 6 And then, for example, Barry has already 7 designed some things in it. So maybe Barry wants to. 8 MR. TOBIAS: So you just gave me another 9 seven minutes, is that right? 10 DR. PEPPER: No. 11 MR. TOBIAS: Well, again, I would want to 12 emphasize the fact that the purely technological 13 issues are either already solved, or real easy to 14 solve, purely technological. 15 Let me go through, since we haven’t -- and 16 I’ll just take a minute to do this. Since we haven’t 17 heard about visual impairment and blindness barriers 18 to show how the marginal implementation points of 19 these products and services can provide unnecessary 20 accessibility barriers. 21 In order to sign up for a very popular IP 22 service you have to go to a website and, as is very 23 common now, you have to be able to transcribe some 24 numbers from a graphic into a text box. 25 89 90 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com So the task is you’ve got a graphic with 1 some kind of hard to read numbers. And they do this 2 to prevent web robots from registering for the 3 service. 4 So it’s not actual text, it’s an image, 5 okay? And it’s a great security technique, but it’s 6 completely inaccessible to people who use screen- 7 readers. 8 And this particular implementation would be 9 very hard for someone who is low vision to perform as 10 well. Then when you can actually register for the 11 service, when you download the common client, and I 12 won’t be giving out any information if I tell you that 13 the name of this client application includes the 14 letter X, because everything includes the letter X. 15 It is constructed in software out of one 16 single control. So instead of using typical software 17 development practices of, you know, using, let’s say 18 in Microsoft, you pull a text box control in there and 19 that’s what the person is supposed to type in. 20 This is one completely custom control, 21 completely inaccessible to screen- readers. Also very 22 poor performance for someone who is low vision and 23 using magnification. 24 Keyboard access to this particular 25 90 91 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com application is very poor. The tab key does nothing. 1 Actually if you tab the right number of times and then 2 use the arrow keys you can, in fact, control the 3 volume of the speaker and the volume of the 4 microphone. 5 But there’s no way that you would know that 6 you’re doing that. So these are entirely avoidable 7 accessibility barriers that are not essential to the 8 IP network. 9 So, again, it’s the information issue. Now, 10 obviously there are probably dozens of screen- reader 11 accessible Voice Over IP residential type clients. 12 But how does the user find out about them? 13 And if the user is an employee, how does the 14 user go to the IT network management security person 15 and get permission to download that one- of- a- kind 16 accessible Voice Over IP client? 17 So that’s the barrier more than the 18 standards and the pure technology. 19 DR. PEPPER: Barry did you want to? 20 MR. ANDREWS: I think I can maybe make two 21 points on that. The first is that products such as 22 Packet 8 are software based running on, in our case, 23 Lenox servers. 24 We designed it from the start for ease of 25 91 92 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com use, but also to be extensible and really a platform 1 to make future enhancements easy and simple to deploy. 2 The current Packet 8 is a good example. 3 We started first with the audio adapter. We 4 have added video and things like text, mobile clients, 5 there’s a semiconductor companies that are working on, 6 for example, combined GSM and WiFi chip sets that will 7 go into portable both traditional mobile phones as 8 well as mobile VoIP phones. 9 The second point I want to make is that I 10 think awareness is key, especially for small companies 11 like ours. And I think that’s where summits like this 12 really help us understand the issues. 13 Once we understand the issues, we can define 14 the problem. And as a technologist, once that is 15 done, once we have a well- defined problem, it is very 16 easy to come up with a solution, especially when it is 17 IP based. 18 That’s the easy part. Having everyone agree 19 on that solution, that’s the tough part. And that’s 20 where standards bodies such as the ITU, IETF, 21 etcetera, are I think doing a very good job. 22 DR. PEPPER: Thank you, Barry. Why don’t we 23 open it up for questions? 24 MR. CLARK: Hi, my name is Drew Clark with 25 92 93 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com National Journals Technology Daily. I believe I have 1 a bit of a technical or informational question that I 2 just don’t understand. 3 Obviously TTY technology was very important 4 in the old world, the circuit switch world, in getting 5 text through a traditional phone line. But it seems 6 to me now that IP connections, you know, offer text 7 very readily. 8 And I believe there was a comment that text 9 over IP drops characters when you are trying to use 10 TTY over IP type services. I’m not quite sure why 11 we’re not just sort of immediately or dramatically 12 moving in the direction of IP based services for 13 people who want to have text in your conversations, 14 just like an email or instant message, or any of those 15 feeds that you get over an IP connection. 16 And so maybe I’m just a little confused as 17 to why TTY is essential going forward in the IP world 18 as opposed to simply having the text that’s obviously 19 and immediately available over an IP connection. 20 DR. PEPPER: Claude? 21 PARTICIPANT: It’s a very complex question. 22 But in my response you have to remember that for the 23 last 40 years we have been using TTYs, and we have 24 been asking businesses to buy TTYs so that we could 25 93 94 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com communicate with them. 1 And then we had the relay service arise in 2 the 70s and 80s, text relay, so that businesses no 3 longer had to have TTYs, they could call the relay 4 service to contact us. 5 Whether it be a doctor or a hospital, anyone 6 in the public world could contact us via the relay 7 service. But then again, you have to remember access 8 back then was only through TTYs. 9 Today it’s true that the world is changing 10 and we have access through all different sorts of 11 technologies, but, again, it takes time for us as 12 consumers to shift from TTY or to not use TTYs at all. 13 It really depends on the efforts of the 14 business community to support us in the sue of other 15 technologies. Migration issues need to be discussed 16 more. How does this happen, how can we make it happen 17 in the quickest way psychiatry. 18 DR. PEPPER: Thank you, any other comments? 19 PARTICIPANT: I think this is really 20 important. An I think it might be worthwhile for 21 companies to have this discussion because in the long 22 run it might be very cost- effective if they can do 23 some sort of socially responsible thing to help people 24 migrate, assuming that they want to. 25 94 95 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com But I think this discussion really needs to 1 happen. 2 DR. PEPPER: So it’s a migration question as 3 much as anything else? 4 PARTICIPANT: Yes. 5 DR. PEPPER: A question back here. 6 MS. KELLY- FRYE: Well thank you very much 7 for the seg- way. My name is Brenda Kelly- Frye. And 8 I’m the Director of the Maryland relay. And I also 9 wear another hat, and I am the Chairperson of the 10 Telecommunications Equipment Distribution Program 11 Association, the acronym is TEDPA. 12 We are state administrators who distribute 13 free equipment to individuals who are indigent and 14 cannot afford to purchase their own equipment. I 15 established the program in Maryland approximately six 16 years ago because I, as an interpreter, had noticed 17 that several people were not able to access 911 18 services because they did not have a telephone in 19 their house. 20 The reason they didn't have a telephone in 21 their house was because they needed an adjunct device 22 called a TTY in which to hook up to their standard 23 phone to make a phone call. 24 Their lives were in danger. They were not 25 95 96 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com able to call 911, they were not able to call their 1 pharmacy to renew their prescriptions. They were not 2 able to call their doctor or the police or fire 3 department. 4 With the movement now into the VoIP arena 5 those people are still going to be left behind. We’ve 6 got this huge digital divide that’s going to be 7 growing, and growing, and growing. 8 Right now, those people who are indigent are 9 able to take advantage of such a program through the 10 telephone companies called Telelife Program, which 11 gives them reduced telephone rates, plus reduced phone 12 calling capacity, you know, they have like 30 free 13 phone calls a month. 14 How are we going to bring these people, who 15 now can’t afford to purchase a TTY themselves, can’t 16 purchase a computer that gives them access to IP, that 17 gives them access to video relay service, and also 18 provide them with some kind of a connectivity with a 19 high speed? 20 How are we going to be able to do that? Are 21 we going to be able to apply such a program such as 22 Telelife to this for high speed connectivity so that 23 they can have equal access to the wonderful features 24 of IP that we all are able to enjoy because we all 25 96 97 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com have good jobs? 1 DR. PEPPER: Good question. Thank you. 2 PARTICIPANT: In line with this line of 3 discussion, I just wanted to point out that the FCC 4 has granted a waiver. I think they have four years 5 left for the IP text relay and the VRS not to have to 6 handle 911 calls because of the same kinds of problems 7 that Nate was talking about, locating people, and 8 validating, and so on. 9 If we’re going to have a lot of migration in 10 the next four or five years this could become a 11 serious problem. Some of my students at Galludet have 12 abandoned -- the people don’t have a lot of money and 13 they are early adopters. 14 And they are abandoning phone lines, don’t 15 have a way to get access to 911 at all. So I think 16 that’s a policy issue that needs to be looked at again 17 perhaps. 18 And the relay companies need to be 19 encouraged to work perhaps with NENA and others to fix 20 the problem for that area. Bruce I wanted to ask you, 21 you had mentioned about text in your product. 22 And I wonder if you have it in the current 23 generation, or is that in the planning stages? 24 Because text we think of as something that has kind of 25 97 98 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com a low overhead medium when you have multimedia. 1 And you have some familiarity with the deaf 2 community, so I’m going to embarrass you with that 3 comment. 4 MR. ANDREWS: I think the question was for 5 me? 6 DR. PEPPER: Yes, Barry. 7 MR. ANDREWS: We have had a previous line of 8 products that worked over with the H. 324 standard, 9 which is basically modem based, trying to send 10 everything over a modem connection. 11 And that did have an accessory port for 12 text. And it is something that we are aware of. I 13 think in our case, we are a small company. We have 14 been fortunate, I think, to have employees that cared 15 about these issues. 16 And so it is something that we are working 17 on. 18 DR. PEPPER: Thank you. Another question? 19 MS. STEWART: Hi, I am Pam Stewart from 20 Maryland. I have a question, I guess it is mostly 21 directed to everybody, but Nate in particular. In 22 your one paradigm you said that, you know, we have to 23 sort of shift towards things like SMS and two- way 24 paging, and that kind of stuff. 25 98 99 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com And I know that I personally am terrified 1 that I know so many of the deaf people that I know 2 that have given up their telephone lines. And they 3 are depending solely on two- way pagers. 4 Now, if that person has gone off the car 5 into a ditch, I know very many times I have sent a 6 two- way page and it doesn't get to somebody else for 7 three hours, or maybe the next day if everything is 8 overload. 9 And it terrifies me that a lot of the 10 companies that have the two- way pagers are encouraging 11 people saying, you know, you can call directly to 911 12 on this, without any of those warnings. 13 And I think we are setting up for some 14 really bad problems here. 15 MR. WILCOX: First, we do recognize as part 16 of the requirements process some of the limitations of 17 the new paradigms of communication, two- way paging 18 being one of them. 19 We haven’t set in stone an adoption of how e 20 are going to handle those yet. And it’s exactly those 21 issues that are creating some of the delay in quicker 22 adoption. 23 We do have a fairly good cross- section of 24 folks working on that issue as well. So I guess the 25 99 100 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com answer I have for you is right now I don’t have an 1 answer. 2 We don’t have a way of accepting that type 3 of messaging. We are looking at the limitations and 4 developing the requirements based on those limitations 5 and hopefully pushing the manufacturers and the 6 support companies for those devices to be able to 7 recognize that they will be used for emergency 8 signaling, and to improve the ability of those devices 9 in that regard. So, thank you. 10 MS. STEWART: Thank you. But, like what Jim 11 said, I think this needs to be stressed too, that it’s 12 organizational too. And I think it is incumbent upon 13 these companies to have more reasonable advertising 14 and don’t tell people that this is going to get you to 15 a 911 center. 16 DR. PEPPER: Thank you. 17 MR. LUCAS: Fred Lucas, FAL Associates. And 18 I’m also the Chairman of TIA 30. Just a bit of 19 information kind of addressing some of what Nate had 20 put up on his 911 fly as far as TTY over IP 21 connections, etcetera. 22 As was mentioned in the first panel by 23 Gunnar Hellstrom and Paul Jones, a lot of work is 24 taking place in the standards area on that. 25 100 101 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com Internationally, as was pointed out, to cover all 1 forms of text devices in the ITU, but also within the 2 U. S. working in conjunction with the ITU group. 3 With are working with NTR 30 developing a 4 standard that will transport the Baudot device 5 information reliably, reliable transport across IP 6 connections, where you do have packet loss and lower 7 quality of service. 8 Right now we are scheduled to have that 9 completed in August of this year. So just as a bit of 10 information, it’s going to be called TIA 1001. The 11 international work also addresses the fact that there 12 is known packet loss in the network, and provide 13 reliable transport of TTY and such devices over the 14 network where you are going between PSTN through IP, 15 back to PSTN, etcetera. 16 DR. PEPPER: Thanks Fred. We have two more 17 people, unless there’s anybody else that wants to get 18 in line. We will take these as our two questions 19 before the next break. 20 MS. MARVENEY: Hi, I am Dana Marveney, the 21 Director of the National Center for Hearing Assistive 22 Technology for hard- of- hearing people. The one thing 23 I would like to point out is that if the multimedia 24 conferencing software had the ability to work with the 25 101 102 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com speech recognition software often available on many 1 user computers this would be a way of cutting down 2 cost because it might not be necessary to use relay 3 services. 4 And so I would really like to encourage 5 everyone to think about building in hooks to the 6 speech recognition modules on computers because I 7 think that would be a very good way of providing 8 access. 9 Many people cannot type very well. So, 10 again, I think this would be something to explore. 11 DR. PEPPER: That’s great. Thank you. Does 12 anybody on the panel have any insights into that, or 13 have a sense of where some of those, you know, speech 14 recognition program are in terms of implementation? 15 No? Well then maybe that’s something that 16 other people during the break can raise or talk to you 17 about. 18 MR. DANIELS: As a deaf individual I will be 19 using the interpreter. My name is Paul Daniels, I am 20 representing myself. There was one woman who made a 21 very good point about if you’re in a car accident, how 22 do you contact 911. 23 Is there any way we could include maybe GPS 24 systems? I know many of the new cars being produced 25 102 103 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com already have built- in GPS systems. It seems like 1 somehow we should be able to create devices where a 2 signal could be sent straight up to a satellite, 3 whether it be a mobile device, or my computer, or 4 whatever. 5 It could shoot up to a satellite and people 6 would know where I am, regardless of how hurt I have 7 become. And then I could be brought to the correct 8 emergency center to be helped. 9 That was just a comment I wanted to add, 10 thank you. 11 DR. PEPPER: Thank you. In fact, Nate may 12 want to respond to that. 13 MR. WILCOX: Well, the good news is that 14 that’s already there. For wireless, for cellular 15 calls the process to enable that is already there. In 16 fact, about 20 percent of the country’s 911 system now 17 is at a point where they are able to accept the geo 18 information associated with a cell phone that dials 19 911. 20 As long as the device, like your OnStar or 21 your ATF system in your car uses the cellular network 22 and you happen to be in a location where the 20 23 percent falls, then you most likely will get located. 24 However, other technologies, two- way pagers, 25 103 104 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com things of that nature, they are not there currently. 1 So those are some of the things we have to look at. 2 So thank you very much. 3 DR. PEPPER: Nate’s making another really 4 good point, I think, which is something that came out 5 at the E911 Solutions Summit, and that is that as we 6 moved, for example, to location based mobile systems, 7 the capabilities and technologies are there. 8 A real issue at this point is implementation 9 by the PSAPs and the funding problems that PSAPs have 10 as local and state government entities having funding 11 problems. 12 So I think that it’s important to recognize 13 that. And if we believe, you know, as a society and 14 country that these are things that are important then 15 we’re going to have to step up and make the financial 16 commitment to converting and proving opportunities for 17 PSAPs to take advantage of the new technologies. 18 I think we have time for about an eight 19 minute break. Then we will move into the next panel. 20 Dane’s folks and June in particular have really kept 21 us on a forced march through a lot of really good 22 substance. 23 I just want to thank the panel first, and 24 the questioners. 25 104 105 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com (Whereupon, the above- entitled matter went 1 off the record at 11: 51 a. m. and went back on the 2 record at 12: 02 p. m.) 3 DR. PEPPER: Hello. Could we try to sit 4 down and get started? We are competing with the food 5 again, but I think if our panelists could come up and 6 be seated. 7 Thank you very much. I have the privilege 8 of introducing another one of our Commissioners, 9 Commissioner Michael Copps. Commissioner after with 10 reconvene here, we have been having several panels. 11 If people get settled I appreciate your 12 being here. Commissioner? 13 COMMISSIONER COPPS: Good afternoon, it 14 doesn't bother me if folks are still eating over 15 there. Please go ahead and do so. Let me apologize 16 for my voice. 17 I am fighting kind of a bad cold. I promise 18 not to get too close to infect everybody. But I am 19 pleased to see you all here. And I thank you for the 20 opportunity to come by for just a few minutes. 21 More importantly, I wanted to come by to 22 thank you for sharing your time and your talent in 23 what I hope has been, and will continue to be, a 24 productive dialogue, productive both for you and for 25 105 106 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com the Commission. 1 And finally, I wanted to commend Chairman 2 Powell and the Consumer and Governmental Affairs 3 Bureau for bring us together today. This is just the 4 kind of outreach I like to see this Commission of ours 5 have on the whole range of technology issues that 6 confront us. 7 There’s noting that comes close to getting 8 out and sharing information with the many groups that 9 are so much affected by the decisions we make around 10 here. 11 Last year about this time I was a guest over 12 at Galludet University’s celebration of the 15 th 13 Anniversary of the deaf President. And I spent some 14 time with the President of that institution, King 15 Jordan, and attended some classes, and was able to 16 speak with some of the students and professors. 17 And it was a terrific day on a beautiful 18 campus. But what stays with me most about that visit 19 was the incredible enthusiasm that people there had 20 for all the new technology that was coming there way, 21 and the almost seamless way that many of them seemed 22 to be incorporating it into their lives. 23 And I went away from there with the idea 24 that, you know we talk so much about the early 25 106 107 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com adopters in silicone valley and their enthusiasm and 1 all that. 2 I don’t think they have anything on the 3 techno- savvy that the disabilities community has. And 4 I was just so proud to see that. And that’s why 5 today’s dialogue is so important. 6 I know you are talking about VoIP. That’s 7 not just a hot topic around the halls of the Federal 8 Communications Commission, but I think it’s going to 9 be really a vital feature of our communications 10 future. 11 And I think it may end up being truly a 12 transformative thing if we get it done right. The 13 possibilities are so great for customized services and 14 fusing voice and data and video onto internet based 15 networks. 16 But there are a lot of challenges that 17 accompany them. That’s what we are trying to wrestle 18 with here at the FCC right now. But chief among them 19 is making sure that IP services like this are 20 accessible to everyone. 21 It’s the right thing to do. And it is also 22 the legal mandate that we have. When congress passed 23 the Americans With Disabilities Act, more than 13 24 years ago, it directed the FCC to do everything we 25 107 108 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com could to ensure that those with disabilities have 1 access to functionally equivalent services so that all 2 of our citizens can participate fully in our society. 3 So that’s what we need to put front and 4 center. Let’s be certain we do everything we can to 5 ensure that we live up to the mandate of functional 6 equivalency as IP services flood the communications 7 landscape. 8 I know that term, functional equivalency, is 9 so bureaucratic, and legalistic, and antiseptic. But 10 if we stop and think about it, what it really 11 translates into is equal opportunity, and the 12 opportunity to lead productive lives, and to 13 communicate, and to educate yourself, and others, and 14 to have a good job, and so much, much more. 15 It is a huge challenge. And that’s a 16 challenge that we have to both meet and master. And 17 we’ve got a long way to go in doing it. We have to 18 wrestle with some hard questions. 19 This Commission has been on a forward march, 20 as some of you know, to re- classify the 21 telecommunication services under our jurisdiction, to 22 re- classify many of them as information services. 23 We need to get a much better handle on what 24 that means for persons with disabilities. And I’m not 25 108 109 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com convinced that it bows particularly well for people 1 with disabilities. 2 Frankly, as many of you probably know, I am 3 worried that this re- classification could cause many 4 more problems than it resolves, if it resolves any. 5 We also have to build on the TRS options we have today 6 that already involve IP platforms. 7 IP relay has been eligible for TRS 8 reimbursement for about two years now. So you have 9 been ahead of the curve in the disabilities community 10 in coming to use IP services to communicate. 11 But we need to ask now how broadband 12 deployment impacts IP relay use and what more we can 13 do to ensure that the disabilities communities have 14 access to the bandwidth they need to use this internet 15 based alternative to TTY. 16 We also are overdue for getting our policy 17 on VRS compensation right. And I imagine you are 18 talking about that today. And it is time for a frank 19 discussion of the benefits of making it a required 20 form of TRS. 21 And I am really hopeful that the Commission 22 can get this teed up in the relatively near future. 23 So there’s a mountain of challenges out there. But it 24 is through dialogues like this I think where we can 25 109 110 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com really tackle these things and make a contribution. 1 So my advice to you is tackle these tough 2 issues, figure who else needs to be a part of this 3 dialogue, reach out to anybody else who needs to be a 4 part of this dialogue, and see if we can’t tackle 5 these questions together. 6 So I won’t detain you further today. But I 7 just did want to come by and welcome you, tell you how 8 appreciative I am for the efforts that you’re making 9 to help us shape policy here at the Commission. 10 I think all of you know, I hope you know, 11 that my door is always open to you, and I look forward 12 to working with you on all of these challenges. Thank 13 you very much, and good luck. 14 DR. PEPPER: Thank you Commissioner Copps. 15 Jeff Carlisle, my co- Director of the IP Working Group 16 is going to moderate the third panel. Jeff? 17 PANEL THREE 18 MR. CARLISLE: Thank you, very much Bob. 19 This panel is going to focus on the regulatory 20 implications of what we have been talking about. And 21 it is really designed to give us an opportunity to 22 talk about what does the regulatory environment look 23 like in order to ensure that we overcome the 24 difficulties posed by the migration to IP technologies 25 110 111 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com and also best realize the opportunities presented by 1 those technologies. 2 It is interesting that engineers sometimes 3 make very good attorneys, largely because the though 4 process of engineering and law can be very similar in 5 terms of problem solving. 6 Unfortunately, I think all to often when we 7 are designing regulatory regimes we sort of forget 8 that when you are going through an engineering process 9 you define the problem, you define the solution, you 10 see if the solution works and you go back and you 11 change it if it doesn't so you can reach the goal of 12 actually answering the question you started from. 13 All too often in the regulatory space, 14 unfortunately, you end up defining the problem, 15 somebody figures out okay, well we’ll just regulate it 16 this way, or we’ll have this program. 17 And then by the time you get around to 18 figuring out whether or not that program has actually 19 worked, or whether that solution has actually worked, 20 you are two or three years down the road. 21 And if it’s not working, it’s extremely 22 difficult to actually change it to make it work. So, 23 getting it right at the beginning is extremely 24 important, and also being willing down the road to be 25 111 112 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com flexible in the approach and adopt new solutions as 1 they come up is also very important. 2 So I’m extremely excited that we have the 3 speakers that we have today on the panel. I think we 4 really do have a panel that represents perhaps an 5 aggregate of over 100 years of experience in this 6 field, which is not individually, but, you know, each 7 one adds up. 8 And I think you will find that the speakers 9 have an enormous wealth of experience to share with us 10 today. We are going to start with comments from Ed 11 Bosson, who is widely regarded as the father of video 12 relay service. 13 He has been the relay Texas administrator 14 since 1990. In this capacity he manages the relay and 15 associated expenses for the state of Texas. He has 16 won numerous awards for his efforts in this area, 17 including awards from the Texas Associated of Deaf 18 Recognition Award, the Robert H. Weitbrecht 19 Telecommunication Access Award from Telecommunication 20 for the Deaf Inc. 21 He has also received TDI’s 30 th Anniversary 22 Recognition Award where he was recognized as one of 23 the 30 individuals who have produced the greatest 24 impact on telecommunications accessibility for 25 112 113 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com America's deaf and hard- of- hearing citizens. So I 1 welcome Mr. Bosson into the panel. 2 MR. BOSSON: Thank you. We will be talking 3 about the impact of network services on VRS. As a 4 result of the internet relay and VRS, there has been a 5 paradigm shift that I would like to share with you. 6 Obviously, TTY users are now migrating to 7 VRS and internet relay services, and the call volume 8 of traditional relay services has either plateued or 9 decreased as a result of this migration. 10 TRS, traditional relay services, are now 11 rethinking how to define their services because of 12 what’s going on in the internet services provided. 13 And those internet services have provided challenges 14 to meeting the TRS guidelines. 15 Functional equivalency, I know it’s been 16 discussed and analyzed, and rediscussed, but I’d like 17 to really emphasize that functional equivalency should 18 be based on the senses and how those services are 19 accessed via the sense. 20 Hearing people use a telephone with a voice 21 and hearing. And that gives them access very easily. 22 Deaf people use sight as their sense of communication 23 access. 24 And so they depend on sign language and that 25 113 114 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com visual access. So the different services we have, 1 like VRS, it isn’t a Cadillac for deaf people, it’s 2 really just a basic service that provides functional 3 equivalency to that which is already out there for 4 other users. 5 Also, these new changes are affecting 6 interpreters. Interpreters used to have to go from 7 place to place to do their work and interpret for 8 people. 9 But now interpreters are taking on desk- 10 bound work. Many interpreters never predicted that 11 would happen to their industry. But it is happening 12 as they work in VRS call centers. 13 More and more deaf people are having access 14 to computers in their homes. And so they are using 15 internet relay and video relay services. And it is 16 making it easier for them to communicate. 17 And they are not using TTYs anymore. And we 18 have already seen several deaf people talk about how 19 TTYs are, you know, being thrown out and land lines 20 are being cut off, that they are focused on only the 21 internet services that they are able to access at this 22 time. 23 Internet services will require different 24 rules and regulations. Average speed of answer is one 25 114 115 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com that that’s being affected, you know. We need to 1 determine how quick it needs to be answered, you know. 2 The different internet speeds that people 3 are connecting with, you know. So the regulations 4 need to come up with a fair result of, you know, cost 5 of service and quick speed of answer. 6 Also identifying callers, the originating 7 caller and the terminating caller, how to identify 8 callers. Should that be required? Or should that be 9 a service that isn’t required anymore? 10 Should the regulations require internet 11 capable services have logins and password protection 12 to minimize some of the fraud cases that we are now 13 experiencing? 14 The question has come up about the funding 15 source for those internet services. Should they be 16 moved back to the state level or maintained at the 17 Federal level? 18 I’d like to really emphasize that the funds 19 are collected -- the money is collected from the 20 carriers. And the carriers collect from the rate 21 payers. 22 And so really, in essence, whatever we call 23 it, the rose is still going to smell the same. Okay? 24 Whether it is Federal or State. On that basis I 25 115 116 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com believe the Federal Government should study which 1 would be the most cost- effective and the most 2 accessible, provide the most access and be the most 3 fair, not only to the phone companies, but to the rate 4 payers. 5 Because those are the people who are 6 ultimately paying for this service. So if we looked 7 at it on a Federal sponsorship level, I would 8 encourage the FCC to look into Federal funding support 9 for internet relay and VRS completely. 10 I think it is more cost effective. It will 11 distribute the costs more evenly to all of the 12 carriers, and as a result of that to all of the rate 13 payers. 14 All of the payments that they make will be 15 equalized. If it was pushed onto the states that they 16 had to pay for internet and VRS services, competition 17 would only happen at the RFP level. 18 Vendors tend to hold back new technology and 19 new ideas and wait until RFPs come, and they put them 20 in, in hopes to win over their competition. So at 21 that different level it puts, at the Federal level, 22 there’s more competition available, rather than 23 limiting it to a single source at the state level. 24 If it is pushed down to the state level 25 116 117 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com there most often isn’t a multi- vendor approach. The 1 RFP approach normally chooses one vendor for the 2 state. 3 They establish a contract. And deaf people 4 then are limited in the choices that they currently 5 experience. Price per minutes depend on the call 6 volume histories for those states. 7 And in the RFP that get sent out, a vendor 8 will look at that state and say well if you have a 9 call volume the price per minute will go down. But if 10 it’s a low call volume then the price goes up per 11 minute. 12 And so then that cost is pushed back to the 13 rate payer, depending on which state you live in. If 14 the states did decide to go ahead and take a multi- 15 vendor approach, the cost would then be much higher 16 then if it’s done on a Federal level. 17 What you see here on the screen, all of 18 these new things we have coming up, in itself 19 contribute to a reduction of the call volume of 20 traditional relay services, which is a good thing, 21 actually. 22 In conclusion, VRS and IP relay needs to be 23 subsidized by the National fund. There should be 24 special regulations that are separate from traditional 25 117 118 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com relay service regulations because of internet 1 accessibility. 2 It’s not unlike what the FFC is doing right 3 now with VoIP, developing new regulations and new 4 protocols. The same thing needs to happen with 5 internet relay and VRS services conducted over the 6 internet. 7 Functional equivalency needs to be taken a 8 hard look at and redefine functional equivalency. It 9 needs to be redefined in a way that will be more fair 10 to deaf people. Thank you very much. 11 MR. CARLISLE: All right, our next panelist 12 is Dr. Paul Michaelis, who is a consulting member of 13 the technical staff in Avaya Labs, and an adjunct 14 professor in the Cognitive Science Institute at the 15 University of Colorado in Boulder. 16 He is the inventor, or co- inventor, of many 17 Avaya accessibility solutions. He currently has over 18 15 patents, or patents pending in this area. He is 19 the recipient of the Access Innovation Award from the 20 Association of Access Engineering Specialists for his 21 development of the TTY user interface for the Intuity 22 messaging system. 23 He was a member of the Lucent Intellectual 24 Property Board of Advisors, and a distinguished member 25 118 119 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com of the technical staff of Bell Laboratories. We are 1 very pleased to have him with us here today. 2 MR. MICHAELIS: Thank you. And also I would 3 like to thank everyone for inviting Avaya to speak 4 about regulatory considerations. In most cases we 5 prefer to rely on market forces to guide our decisions 6 about the products we should offer. 7 However, with regard to VoIP systems and 8 services, it is clear that market forces alone will 9 not protect the rights of individuals with 10 disabilities. 11 The history of our Intuity voice- mail system 12 may illustrate why we believe that some form of 13 regulation is essential. In 1993 I helped design and 14 build the TTY user interface for this system. 15 A key feature is that callers may select 16 whether they wish to be prompted by voice or in TTY 17 format. This means, of course, you can give the same 18 phone number to voice and TTY callers. 19 Regardless of the prompting format, callers 20 may leave voice or TTY messages. This TTY interface 21 is a standard feature in the Intuity system. It is 22 not an add- on, there is no license fee, there is no 23 right- to- use fee. 24 The only thing a system administrator needs 25 119 120 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com to do is turn it on. Now, despite these efforts to 1 encourage accessibility, we are finding that the vast 2 majority of Intuity systems do not have TTY support 3 activated. 4 It is clear that many organizations do not 5 understand the need to provide accessible 6 communication to their employees and to their 7 customers. 8 In this environment we cannot expect that 9 market pressures alone will ensure that VoIP systems 10 are accessible. Before I discuss regulations that may 11 be appropriate and beneficial, I think it’s important 12 to describe a few technical differences between 13 traditional phone systems and VoIP. 14 When you have an active call on a standard 15 residential telephone, all transmissions are carried 16 on a single audio channel. This would include your 17 voice, as well as touch tones and modem signals. 18 Many assistive devices, notably TTYs, rely 19 on the phone system’s ability to transmit audio 20 information reliably and without distortion. In the 21 present regulatory environment, VoIP audio channels 22 are not required to support reliable TTY 23 communication. 24 This is a problem because the voice 25 120 121 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com optimized audio compression commonly used in VoIP 1 systems can decrease TTY accuracy to the point it 2 becomes unusable. 3 An exciting aspect of VoIP technology is 4 that even while a call is in progress, all sorts of 5 non- audio information may be transmitted via parallel 6 data channels. 7 Avaya is already using this capability to 8 provide reliable transport of Baudot TTY signals on 9 VoIP- wide area networks. So rather than transmit the 10 TTY tones via the voice channel, a description of the 11 tones is sent via a parallel data channel, the 12 receiving system reconstructs the original audio tones 13 for the TTY device at the far end. 14 And, for the benefit of any engineers in the 15 audience, these descriptions are in the format 16 specified by RFC 2833, and are sent redundantly to 17 compensate for packet loss. 18 It works beautifully. The mechanism I just 19 described brings our voice systems up to parody with 20 traditional phone systems. VoIP technology allows us 21 to considerably more. 22 A good example of software for Avaya IP 23 telephones is provided by Avaya for free called 24 Universal Access Phone Status. It takes advantage of 25 121 122 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com capabilities that are present in our IP telephones to 1 provide, via voice output, all of the information that 2 is presented visually to sighted users, such as which 3 lines are available, which are in use, whether the 4 phone is forwarded, whether there is new voice- mail, 5 whether someone on hold has been disconnected. 6 In fact, over 200 different functions are 7 supported by this product. My flow of the time, here 8 are three high level recommendations regarding 9 regulatory control of VoIP. 10 First, regardless of how the FCC eventually 11 comes out on the issue of is VoIP a telecom or an 12 information service, Avaya supports the idea that, at 13 a minimum, the current accessibility requirements for 14 traditional phone systems should be applied to VoIP. 15 In addition, we would like these regulations 16 implemented at the Federal level, so that 17 manufacturers won’t have to deal with multiple 18 standards and regulations that may be developed by the 19 individual states. 20 Second, we believe that a barrier might 21 develop between VoIP users and the users of 22 traditional systems if interoperability and backward 23 compatibility are not required. 24 I regard my third point as really being the 25 122 123 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com most important. We believe that if accessible VoIP 1 systems cost more than their inaccessible equivalents, 2 the FCC may be unable to guarantee the rights of 3 people with disabilities regardless of whether VoIP 4 regulations are adopted. 5 Previous statements from the FCC demonstrate 6 that they have been reluctant, and appropriately so in 7 my opinion, to require capabilities that are not 8 readily achievable. 9 A key component of how the FCC defines 10 readily achievable takes into account the cost of the 11 incremental action. Now, the accessibility solutions 12 I have described today are included in our products 13 without additional charges or fees. 14 This was a priority for us during the design 15 process. And we were able to achieve this by taking 16 advantage of capabilities that were actually already 17 present in our systems. 18 For example, the TTY on IP solution uses a 19 mechanism that was implemented originally to transmit 20 touch- tones on the internet. The TTY messaging system 21 I described to you uses a software that was 22 implemented originally to support multi- lingual spoken 23 announcement sets. 24 How, this style of engineering, which we try 25 123 124 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com to piggy- back inexpensively onto existing 1 capabilities, has a very important objective. Now, 2 keep in mind, the cost component and how the phrase 3 readily achievable is defined. 4 We believe that if accessible systems cost 5 more than inaccessible equivalents this could lead to 6 discrimination of the provision of services and 7 opportunities for employment in organizations that are 8 unable to or unwilling to cover the extra expense. 9 By reusing capabilities that were already 10 present in our systems, we are providing accessible 11 solutions for VoIP that are, by definition, readily 12 achievable. 13 Now, realistically, it is not always 14 possible to include accessibility within a standard 15 product for no additional charge. However, one thing 16 you can count on is that Avaya will always try. 17 Going forward, we look forward to working 18 with the FCC and with the community in general to 19 ensure that everyone’s needs are respected and 20 accommodated. Thank you. 21 MR. CARLISLE: Thank you very much Paul. 22 Our next panelist is Paul Schroeder who serves as the 23 Vice President of Policy Research and Technology for 24 the American Foundation for the Blind. 25 124 125 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com He is responsible for AFB’s activities 1 related to legislative and public policy, research and 2 demographic trends and efforts to improve access and 3 information concerning technology. 4 He has been directly responsible for a 5 number of significant developments, including helping 6 to negotiate disability access language during the 7 1996 Telecom Act. 8 He has been a leading advocate in the effort 9 to enact legislation that would improve access to text 10 books for students who are blind or visually impaired. 11 And he has also been a leading voice in AFB’s work to 12 foster a greater access to cell phones and other 13 telecommunications equipment. Paul, thank you very 14 much for being with us. 15 MR. SCHROEDER: Thank you, very much. And 16 good afternoon. I want to observe that so far we have 17 all been very nice and behaved. And I will try to 18 keep to that. 19 I think it’s kind of a suit and necktie 20 phenomena that we are all kind of constrained from 21 speaking perhaps directly. And I want to compliment 22 Jim Tobias for A, not having a necktie, and B, being 23 fairly provocative in some of his comments. 24 And I thought they were very well chosen. 25 125 126 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com And those of you who may have missed it, especially 1 those listening on the web, check him out. They were 2 good comments. 3 It’s interesting that we saved the 4 regulatory portion to last, and appropriately so. I 5 think it’s good that we’ve been able to talk about 6 some of the other issues, including some of the great 7 benefits that come from IP- enabled services. 8 I want to make a couple of observations. 9 But first of all I want to commend the Commission for 10 an excellent notice of conveying your usual breadth 11 and depth of analysis. 12 Those of you who have maybe been daunted by 13 its length or its topic, please read it. It’s really 14 tremendous. It’s a great read. The layering 15 discussion alone is almost Dostoevsky in tone. 16 You will enjoy it. It will be in literary 17 classes next year I’m sure. It is a good notice. And 18 I do commend it. We have heard a lot today about 19 Voice Over IP. 20 And I want to express a concern that we are 21 really talking about something far deeper and more 22 significant in a way than that. Voice Over IP fits 23 fairly well within the current telecom structure. 24 I think we can debate and argue over how it 25 126 127 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com should be deemed in the regulatory scheme. But I 1 think we could probably come down and agree that it’s 2 a telecom service and should be treated as such. 3 IP- enabled services are far more 4 significant, and really have to be treated 5 differently. And that’s one of the things I want to 6 talk about. 7 How do we ensure that people with 8 disabilities have reliable access to these IP services 9 with all that comes with them? Well it should be no 10 surprise to anyone here that I’m going to advocate, 11 yes, regulations, to ensure reliable access for people 12 with disabilities. 13 Voluntary measures and market forces simply 14 don’t work. Everybody wants them to work. Everybody 15 says they should work. Everybody hopes they will 16 work. 17 But they simply don’t work for people with 18 disabilities. So, even though we might say it over 19 and over again, it isn’t true. It hasn’t been true, 20 and I doubt for the foreseeable future that it will be 21 true. 22 The reason for that is fairly simply. We 23 simply don't have the sufficient focused power in the 24 marketplace to ensure that services will meet our 25 127 128 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com needs. 1 So it seems to me the role of government, 2 and in this case the FCC, is to ensure a reliable 3 opportunity for equal access, albeit with minimal 4 intrusion. 5 Striking that balance is the critical task 6 confronting the Commission. I think we have a 7 historic moment to try to construct the right 8 regulatory approach that meets the needs of consumers 9 with disabilities, rather than trying to shoehorn us 10 into the unrelated legacy approaches of the past. 11 Of course I’m referring here to the computer 12 inquiry lines of reasoning, and to the economic- based 13 regulatory scheme that we have been living within. 14 Whatever the flaws of the latter, the economic scheme, 15 might be, certainly it has served important interest, 16 especially in constraining the abuses that might arise 17 for monopoly power. 18 But even in a non- monopoly condition, people 19 with disabilities still do not have the power to 20 negotiate the rates, the terms, and conditions that 21 affect our access to services. 22 With respect to the computer inquiry 23 decisions, one wishes we could have been around 40 24 years ago to try to steer things in a different 25 128 129 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com direction. 1 Nonetheless, most of us weren’t, maybe a 2 couple exceptions on this table since we’ve got a 3 hundred years of service. We have said several times 4 in our responses to notices here at the FCC, we have 5 asked the FCC to try to go beyond, to try to move past 6 the separation of basic and enhanced or telecom and 7 information services that arose from the computer 8 inquiry. 9 We’ve said that in our comments on the 10 further notice of inquiry, Section 255, and we’ve also 11 made the same point in talking about broadband 12 services. 13 Obviously the analysis in the notice that 14 Commission has published also points out that there is 15 a rich communication environment, and an environment 16 that does go well beyond the division of telecom and 17 if services. 18 Nonetheless, I have to say at the heart of 19 the discussion of regulatory schemes in the Federal 20 Communications Commission notice, and in the comments 21 here this afternoon, we have continued to focus on 22 voice and made analogies to traditional voice 23 telephony. 24 We have to move beyond the focus on voice. 25 129 130 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com And we have to get to a focus on the message, on the 1 content, for it is the communication of that content 2 that really is essential. 3 Yes, the transmission of voice is important, 4 and it does need to be protected in terms of 5 accessibility. But so many other forms of content 6 described in the notice, and talked about in terms of 7 the IP environment that we are now in, are of great 8 significance to people with disabilities, and are 9 simply not being made accessible. 10 I have no doubt that the marketplace will 11 ensure a wide panoply of services and products for 12 consumers. And I have no doubt that those providing 13 those services will find a way to make money. 14 But experience tells us that the needs of 15 people with disabilities, if thought of at all, will 16 be addressed as afterthoughts, retrofits, and 17 incomplete and inferior approaches. 18 We are not looking for an imposed solution. 19 Nor do we want to be bought off with a scheme that 20 says special devices for special people. So, how do 21 we ensure that people with disabilities can take equal 22 advantage of these new communications services? 23 Well, I’m going to say that I think Section 24 255 of the Communications Act actually offers the 25 130 131 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com right starting point. Yes, it does bear the struggles 1 of having been written with a telecom and information 2 services distinctions in place. 3 But it addresses the needs of consumers by 4 addressing access to both equipment and 5 telecommunications services. And it sets user 6 interface standards. 7 Section 255 addresses that all important 8 human interface to communications. Regardless of 9 whether we are describing a traditional telephone, or 10 whether we are describing something that, in fact, 11 uses enhanced technologies. 12 I am convinced that standards can be set to 13 require access to IP- enabled services, that we can 14 look at end- user devices, those used by the consumers 15 in their home or on their person, the controllers of 16 those devices, be they personal computers, handheld 17 devices or otherwise, the software that runs those 18 services, the electronic services, such as the web- 19 bases services that allow individuals to interact. 20 And, of course, we can ensure that the 21 communication protocols are open so that consumers can 22 connect at will. But, as I said, 255 is limited by 23 its applications to telecommunications and, frankly, 24 its neglect in the enforcement here at the Federal 25 131 132 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com Communications Commission. 1 Unfortunately, our hopes have not been 2 realized. But I believe that the breadth and approach 3 of 255 remains right. We’ve gone nearly this time -- 4 and I’m closing up here -- without using the term 5 ancillary jurisdiction. 6 And I can’t believe we have gone a whole 7 morning without saying that. It’s the right 8 regulatory edifice on which to build a 255- like 9 approach to ensure broad access to IP communications 10 and technologies for people with disabilities. 11 MR. CARLISLE: We’d like to get people 12 warmed up for a while before we actually start 13 throwing around ancillary jurisdiction. By the way, 14 thank you very much. 15 That’s the first time I’ve ever heard a, 16 speaking on behalf of the staff who wrote the NPRM, 17 that’s first time I’ve ever heard any part of an FCC 18 order referred to as Dostoevskian. 19 We usually get Kakkaesque. And it’s really 20 not that long. It’s only about 60 pages long, which 21 is actually a pamphlet compared to most of what we do. 22 And one more thing, before I take anymore heat on this 23 hundred year comment, I’m just going by the bios. 24 And Vanderheiden has been in this for 30 25 132 133 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com years. Mr. Schroeder has been in it for 20 years from 1 his bio, Michaelis for 25, and Mr. Bosson has been 2 head since 1990 of the Texas TRS Service, and has 3 probably got more experience than that. 4 So, you’ve at least got 89 years by my 5 account. So just put that to rest. Our last panelist 6 is Dr. Gregg Vanderheiden who we are very happy to 7 have again. 8 He was on our VoIP forum in December of last 9 year, and provided very valuable input on the 10 disabilities access issues. So we are very happy to 11 have him back again so we can delve into more detail 12 in this forum here. 13 He is a Professor in Industrial Engineer and 14 Biomedical Engineering, and directs the Trace Research 15 and Development Center at University of Wisconsin in 16 Madison. 17 Dr. Vanderheiden has been working in this 18 field for, as I mentioned, 30 years. He pioneered the 19 field of augmentative communication and assistive 20 technology, and for many years has been looking at 21 issues for physical and cognitive disabilities. 22 He has been involved with computer access 23 since the late 1970s. And many access features he has 24 developed are present in Mac, UNIX, and Windows 25 133 134 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com operating systems. 1 He has worked with a wide variety of Federal 2 Government agencies, as well as corporations. His 3 recent activities focus on cross disability access to 4 the full range of communication and information 5 technologies. 6 He is the co- author of W3C’s web content 7 accessibility guidelines, various interconnection 8 standards, and voting systems that are usable by those 9 with disabilities, or elderly. 10 Again, we are very happy to have him. 11 And, please? 12 MR. VANDERHEIDEN: Thank you very much. 13 Again, thank you for the invitation and for putting 14 together this very excellent panel. Coming last is 15 always a dubious distinction. 16 And I will try not to plow old ground. But 17 I will try to bring some things together and to really 18 look at some of the underlying forces that cause 19 things to happen or not happen. 20 So I ask the question, why would we 21 regulate? And the answer is we wouldn't or shouldn’t 22 unless we have to. So, is this true for Voice Over IP 23 and for IP services? 24 And let’s examine this. One of the things 25 134 135 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com we saw was in the telecom area we have seen nothing 1 happen regarding accessibility and mainstream 2 companies and products until regulation. 3 Although there were serendipitous things, 4 and there were special programs, sometimes special 5 adaptations in special room. But we haven’t seen 6 anything regarding overall access to the different 7 disabilities and the problems they face. 8 With regulation, we also saw that nothing 9 substantial happened that hasn’t been driven by FCC 10 enforcement or threat of enforcement. And so when 11 that has either relaxed or time has passed, the 12 interests and the efforts in the companies can 13 actually be seen to slacken and reduce. 14 When a complaint is filed, interest, 15 activities, funding, and work within the companies 16 increases again. Now, is this because the companies 17 are bad, or evil? 18 And the answer is no. It’s complicated, but 19 the underlying driving force is that it is not good 20 business to do things that do not generate the most 21 profit. 22 This is a very competitive industry. And 23 those who ignore this, the laws of business, they are 24 gone, they disappear. And we here who buy stocks -- 25 135 136 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com anybody here buy stocks or have a pension fund? 1 We want our stocks to generate as much 2 return as possible. So if you’re like we, the public, 3 are the evil owners of these companies that care about 4 nothing but profit. 5 So profit isn’t bad, it’s life. It’s like 6 gravity. If you’re old and you fall and you break 7 your hip, you kind of curse gravity. But if you 8 didn't have gravity you wouldn't have traction, you 9 couldn't walk. 10 Profits are similar to gravity. They are 11 both a fact, and they are what makes things work. We 12 ignore gravity at our own peril. We ignore the profit 13 motive and its driving and critical force in business, 14 at the peril of actually the consumer. 15 If we think that things will happen for the 16 consumer for any other reason except if they need to, 17 then we basically are ignoring gravity. So what does 18 this have to do with regulation? 19 Regulations are a way of taking important 20 things that won’t and don’t happen by market forces, 21 that aren’t in the profit equation, and putting them 22 into the profit equation. 23 Profit is what makes businesses work. 24 Regulation is how society, and what society uses to 25 136 137 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com make sure that our values are in the profit equations. 1 So it comes down to a series of questions. 2 Number one, do we think that access to 3 telephony is important for people with disabilities, 4 including those who are older? And, by the way, all 5 of us will acquire disabilities, unless we die first. 6 So, the answer is yes, telecom is essential 7 to daily life. It’s essential to independent living, 8 particularly as we age. You will find it becomes more 9 and more essential. 10 And, increasingly, this has also come to be 11 access to IP. Question two, is IP telecom? Well, 12 from the legislation, we see that telecommunication is 13 the transmission between or among points specified by 14 the user of information of the user’s choosing, 15 without change in the form or content of the 16 information center received. 17 Thus, the internet is telecom. The world 18 wide web would not. That is, the internet which 19 connects us all would be, but an information service 20 on the internet may not. 21 Question three, is VoIP telecom? Well, 22 first of all, it is transmission among specific points 23 specified by the user, etcetera. Secondly, we are 24 seeing that it is rapidly replacing the public switch 25 137 138 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com telephone network, especially in some markets. 1 And if PSTN was telecom, regardless of 2 whether it was transmitted using wires or light, or 3 microwaves, or satellites, or data packets over wire 4 or air, which is what the public switch telephone 5 network does, why would VoIP not be telecom because we 6 used differently shaped packets and hand shaking over 7 the same media? 8 Question four, if it is telecom, is 9 regulation needed? And the answer is for some aspects 10 no, regulation is not. But for accessibility it is. 11 As we noted earlier, whether it is TTY compatibility 12 or TV decoders, or hearing aid compatibility, nothing 13 has really happened without FCC requirement. 14 Are standards the answer? And the answer is 15 they are a very important component. But of all the 16 standards that have been passed related to 17 accessibility, the only ones that have been 18 implemented, are those that have been required by the 19 FCC. 20 In fact, our colleagues working in various 21 international standards groups are dismayed to hear 22 companies say that they are only going to support the 23 U. S. related accessibility standards or components of 24 standards because those are the only ones they are 25 138 139 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com required to. 1 Question five, do I have anything cheerful 2 to say? Yes. Access over IP technologies is cheaper 3 and easier. There are many examples of this. And we 4 have heard some of them today. 5 One is a concept that we have been working 6 on a major VoIP company with that would allow you to 7 install one program on the central call manager 8 server, and instantly all 10,000 or 20,000, or however 9 many phones you have, that are inaccessible on the 10 enterprise would become text compatible. 11 I don't mean you could hook up a TTY. I 12 mean you could communicate in text on them. A deaf 13 person could walk up to any phone and communicate in 14 voice or text, or mixed, without any TTY, or any other 15 device, and without changing the phones at all from 16 what they are today. 17 Number two, access over IP technologies can 18 address many more needs for more people as we have 19 already seen today. And number three, access over IP 20 technology can be simpler for those who are older. 21 Yes, wouldn't it be nice if any technology 22 got simpler? It can be simpler for people who are 23 older and give them what they need when they need it 24 to stay independent without changing how the phone 25 139 140 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com operates for the rest of us. 1 And there’s more. But it won’t happen if no 2 one requires it to. Enforced regulation can make it 3 profitable to make things accessible. It can keep 4 good actors from losing ground to bad actors. 5 It can level the playing field. It can make 6 sure that everyone takes access into account. And it 7 can cause access to be part of doing business, and a 8 standard part of the future telecom system design. 9 And, finally, it can make sure that telecom 10 is there for us, and usable by us, when each of us 11 grows old and needs it. And we will. Thank you. 12 MR. CARLISLE: I’d like to start off the Q& A 13 session with a question that sort of takes us a step 14 beyond the on/ off switch of whether it is regulated, 15 or required, or not regulated or required. 16 Because I would like to sort of delve into 17 what the content of a requirement would be. Let’s 18 assume there is a requirement of disabilities access 19 applicable to VoIP, however that might be deployed in 20 the system. 21 How do we best implement that requirement? 22 Do we as the FCC issue detailed specific requirements 23 that VoIP companies have to abide by? Do we just have 24 a general requirement and then enforce it on sort of a 25 140 141 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com case- by- case basis and essentially allow standards to 1 develop? 2 Or do we take a much higher level approach 3 and require a series of reports to see how it actually 4 happened, how the technology actually develops out in 5 the market? 6 Any one of these is a valid approach. But, 7 from your perspective, which one do you think works 8 the best, and can be enforced the best? Go ahead. 9 MR. MICHAELIS: Number one, I would have to 10 say that the FCC needs to consider a telephone to be a 11 telephone, regardless of the transport mechanism. A 12 phone is a phone. 13 We’ll start at that basis. Next, I think we 14 need to recognize that even if I, as a manufacturer, 15 am required to provide accessibility, that doesn't 16 necessarily mean that they are going to keep lining up 17 to buy my products. 18 That’s the reason I cited the example of our 19 voice- mail system. We have been providing this TTY 20 support now for over a decade. Nobody is using. Not 21 nobody, but very few people, disappointingly few of 22 our customers have actually enabled this capability on 23 the system. 24 All they need to do is turn it on. So I 25 141 142 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com would like -- I don’t know how to propose to do this - 1 - but I would like some sort of regulation that 2 encourage more of my customers to put accessibility 3 into their RFPs. 4 Aside from non- government agencies, we are 5 seeing very few RFPs from the business community 6 saying we want the solution you sell us to be 7 accessible. 8 That’s just not happening. I don't know 9 what enforcement mechanism might encourage that, but 10 that would certainly be a wonderful thing, if I 11 started seeing our customers asking for it, instead of 12 trying to force it on to them, or perhaps you forcing 13 it on to them by saying it’s a required component of 14 the product. 15 And then, finally, again, I want to 16 reemphasize the importance of having the regulations 17 be Federal in nature. If each of the 50 states adopts 18 its own regulations, that’s going to be a terrible 19 mess for all of us. 20 We really need centralized control of what 21 this environment’s going to look like. 22 MR. SCHROEDER: Just a couple of follow- up 23 comments. I would say one in three in the scenarios 24 you laid out. One being very specific, and I regret 25 142 143 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com having to say that. 1 Because it’s almost like voluntary- based 2 measures. I wish general requirements would work and 3 did work, because it would allow things to move 4 forward. 5 They only can if there’s an aggressive 6 enforcement and review behind it, which is why I say 7 three also, because it’s one of the things we missed, 8 it seems to me, in the 255 world, is having some form 9 of required reporting on actually what’s being done 10 where we would have it down in clear digits or print, 11 or whatever, that the there isn’t much accomplished, 12 at least in some areas of the marketplace for people 13 with disabilities. 14 And so that would allow the Commission to 15 come back and look for, you know, why is this 16 occurring, and what can we do about it? I guess 17 specific and follow on reporting requirements. 18 The other thing is, you know, Paul’s point 19 is right, and I wish in some ways I wish we could have 20 written the ADA a few years later where we could have 21 gotten at electronic access as a required element, as 22 opposed to something we are still arguing about in the 23 courts. 24 Because some of the things you are talking 25 143 144 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com about might well have been covered if we could have 1 made it clear at the outset that services needed to be 2 made accessible, webs needed to be made accessible, 3 ecommerce needed to be made accessible. 4 MR. CARLISLE: Gregg? 5 MR. VANDERHEIDEN: Yes. It’s a good 6 question about performance based and design based. In 7 508 there’s performance and design based. And the 8 performance based are essentially ignored. 9 The performance criteria at the bottom, 10 there’s no guideline for them, there’s not comment on 11 them, there’s not support documents on them, because 12 what people really look for is something very 13 specific. 14 They want to know what is it and can I test 15 whether I have done it. And the more general and 16 performance you make it, the more someone’s got to 17 come back here and ask you did this pass. 18 And that’s not good for a company, because a 19 company can’t put a product out on the market and then 20 after they put it out come talk to you. And they 21 don’t really want to come talk to you with their 22 secret brand new product. 23 One other thing is a phone is a phone. 24 Conversation is conversation. Another thing that we 25 144 145 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com see, wherever there is conversation, there should be 1 text. 2 I mean, on the IP network, there really 3 isn’t a reason why you would have voice communication, 4 where you can’t have text intermixed. And if you have 5 voice and vision and no text, which is like a 30 th of 6 the bandwidth, and the easiest to implement, you know, 7 why? 8 And the answer is you didn't have to do it, 9 so we just did the things that we thought were going 10 to be market driven. Again, the market. It’s good 11 business, it’s just not good society. 12 Performance under duress. One of the things 13 that we need to look at -- we talk about these things 14 and people say you’re going to use G. 711, and that’s 15 great, except when there’s a hurricane, there’s a 16 tornado, there’s any kind of pressure on the system. 17 What will the systems do? Will they drop 18 half the phone calls, or will they drop the GE729? I 19 mean, we had one where we said how are you going to 20 guarantee the text will continue if there was a thing? 21 And he said, oh, the first thing we would do 22 is cut all the text out so we would get more voice 23 calls through. And this was in a conversation about 24 accessibility for people who are deaf. 25 145 146 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com The comment was, oh, even though the text 1 takes a very -- I mean, you could have many, many text 2 conversations for one voice conversation, they would 3 cut them out so they would get one more voice in. 4 Now, that wasn’t the company decision, that 5 was just a reaction by one of the people from a 6 company who was looking at this issue. Finally, I do 7 think the idea of reports over time is good. 8 MR. CARLISLE: I said that Ed would have an 9 opportunity to address this one. 10 MR. BOSSON: There is already a clause in 11 Title 4 of the ADA, where it clearly states, it 12 encourages that new technologies. And so I believe 13 that the FCC can use that particular language in the 14 ADA to expand the regulations to apply to both VRS and 15 IP relay. 16 MR. CARLISLE: We have a question over here. 17 MR. TOBIAS: Jim Tobias, Inclusive 18 Technologies. I’m sorry to be testifying from both 19 sides of the witness stand, but I too agree that 20 periodic reports, collecting and disseminating 21 information about accessibility solutions that are 22 there in the marketplace, be they mainstream 23 technologies, or assistive technologies, is a good 24 idea. 25 146 147 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com And, in fact, the access board, and I 1 believe we have -- there he is. He’s right here, 2 right behind me, probably follow on to my comments -- 3 issued a market monitoring report in 1999, which our 4 company performed. 5 And it was at that time kind of a snapshot 6 of accessibility solutions, what were the features in 7 telecom products? And so it might be time, five years 8 now, to go on and do more of that. 9 But I would like to renew what I said on the 10 panel. And that is to focus on outcomes, not on 11 performance, and not on design criteria, but on 12 outcomes. 13 You have a huge staff of very talented 14 econometricians who should be able to calculate the 15 social cost and the social benefit of accessibility 16 policy. 17 In fact, the Commission responded to exactly 18 this issue a number of years ago when TRS coin sent 19 paid was an issue. And that is, I’m carrying my TTY, 20 I want to make a relay call from a payphone. 21 The estimated cost to the industry of making 22 the necessary network changes so that an 800 number 23 could wind up at a billing system was estimate to 24 something like 150 million dollars. 25 147 148 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com The volume of calls was estimated at 1 somewhere between 1,500 and 2,000 calls a year. It 2 was quickly realized that that was not a socially 3 valuable decision to make. 4 And so, in fact, part of the Commission’s 5 rule was not to make a technical change, to provide 6 workarounds for all of the TTY users, and to have a 7 massive outreach campaign of information about how you 8 can perform relay calls from a payphone. 9 And I would consider that to be another 10 regulatory model to use. 11 MR. CARLISLE: Andy comments from the panel 12 on that? 13 MR. VANDERHEIDEN: Yes, I would like to 14 speak to the outcome. And one of the things that I 15 think the FCC has done from time to time is that come 16 back to the industry and say gee, this is something we 17 were considering. 18 You said it was going to get fixed. It is 19 now X years later, you know. Are people who are deaf 20 able to successfully communicate? And if they say, 21 well, yes, we are working on it. 22 The answer is you have been working on it. 23 And it is actually easy to design things that need 24 specs, that still don’t make accessible communication. 25 148 149 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com The other thing I’d like to say is that one of the 1 things that that kind of a thing can do is it can look 2 at more than just the types of disability or the cases 3 that have been brought in as a complaint. 4 The number of times I’m sitting with 5 somebody and you are trying to solve a problem, and 6 they say okay, but if you do it that way you are going 7 to create a problem for this other disability, and 8 they say oh, that’s okay, they’re not suing us. 9 And so I think it’s one of the other things 10 that that type of an approach would do in a report in 11 looking at it, is that you can look across the 12 disabilities, not just at the ones that happen to have 13 been vocal up until now. 14 DR. PEPPER: If I could actually just ask 15 Gregg a very specific question, because I think you 16 may actually have the answer asked by an earlier 17 questioner. 18 And that is the -- then a more general one 19 to your comments -- the specific question is what is 20 the current state of voice recognition software and 21 its implementation? 22 MR. VANDERHEIDEN: This is actually one of 23 the powers of Voice Over IP, is that you can actually 24 get a phone client that would just go right on your 25 149 150 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com laptop, or a PDA. 1 And we now have voice recognition, which 2 gets better and better each day, that would run while 3 you talk. And it would literally type into the VoIP. 4 So you’d not have to have voice recognition in the 5 VoIP at all. 6 And each year that voice recognition gets 7 better with your old phone you would get better and 8 better. IBM is working on a project called super- 9 human speech recognition. 10 And its goal is to be better than a human 11 being at recognizing speech. And we will get there. 12 DR. PEPPER: So this is actually one of the 13 good things, then. 14 MR. VANDERHEIDEN: It is a tremendous power, 15 except if one decides that if it’s not a phone, 16 doesn't look like a phone, if it’s a laptop that makes 17 a phone call it’s not covered. 18 I don’t mean the whole laptop, I mean just 19 the phone ap. Then that would fall by the wayside. 20 MR. BOSSON: Voice recognition, I’m not 21 sure, you may have heard already several people 22 mention Captel this morning. That’s a new service for 23 hard- of- hearing individuals. 24 They use the service that has voice 25 150 151 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com recognition within it. And it makes it possible then 1 for a hard- of- hearing person to make a call to a 2 hearing person. 3 That individual, when speaking back to them, 4 it comes through the Captel program where it has a 5 person who is able to speak in a way that the Captel 6 will recognize and presents the hard- of- hearing person 7 with text. 8 And they can have a live conversation. We 9 see that more and more states are using this 10 technology. And it’s ideal for the elderly, for hard- 11 of- hearing people, who still have good speech. 12 MR. CARLISLE: We have time for two last 13 questions before we move on to the Chairman’s closing 14 remarks. Please, go first. 15 MR. BAQUIS: Good afternoon. My name is 16 David Baquis. And I work for the U. S. Access Board. 17 And I would like to raise the issue of section 508. 18 One question that we get at the Access Board is very 19 simple, yes or no, is VoIP covered as a telecom 20 product by the section 508 standards? 21 And the Access Board has not seeken to take 22 the position that we want to be the first to determine 23 that voice over the internet, or internet telephony, 24 is a telecom product before the FCC rules on this. 25 151 152 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com So this is a very important issue because 1 these decisions about procured telecom products would 2 be enforceable. And second, we know that although the 3 section 508 law, the Rehabilitation Act, applies only 4 to Federal agencies, we are well aware that many 5 entities in society are voluntarily looking at those 6 standards and internalizing them into their own state 7 laws, or polices. 8 So when I do things like travel to the state 9 of California and they ask me about what they should 10 be doing for accessibility of their telecom products, 11 they also want to know. 12 And they don’t just want to be told that 13 they could do the right thing if they had the 14 resources to do so. But they want to know what they 15 have to do. 16 And so it would be very helpful to us if we 17 had a sense of how this issue’s going to be dealt with 18 and when the timeline is, and also what the 19 enforcement implications will be for Federal agencies 20 that have already purchased Voice Over IP- type 21 products, which may or may not be perfectly conformant 22 with the law. 23 MR. CARLISLE: Would anybody on the panel 24 like to address that? 25 152 153 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com MR. VANDERHEIDEN: I think that’s a request 1 to the FCC. I think 508 talks about functionality so 2 that if it’s a telecommunication functionality it 3 might be considered to fall under the 4 telecommunication regs of 508 without getting into 5 deciding whether Voice Over IP is. 6 It’s the functionality. So that might be a 7 way of addressing that. 8 MR. CARLISLE: All right. Las question. 9 MR. SLETS: My name is Ken Slets with the 10 Information Technology Industry Council, the IT side 11 of the spectrum. We tend to view Voice Over IP as 12 probably something that is transitioning from our side 13 of the technology into a telecom type service. 14 But we would like to suggest the FCC to be a 15 little careful about how you approach this. In terms 16 of performance versus design standards and 17 requirements, we tend to view design standards as 18 being a ceiling. 19 It tends to be a ceiling in the innovation 20 market, so to speak. Whereas performance essentially 21 establishes a floor. When you establish a floor in 22 terms of your requirements that enables changes in the 23 marketplace. 24 Our technology advances, as everybody knows, 25 153 154 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com extremely rapidly. I suspect that that’s going to be 1 the same thing with Voice Over IP. We are going to 2 see new technologies. 3 They are probably already on the drawing 4 board, that are going to roll out that will achieve or 5 accomplish a lot of the accessibility, not only for 6 people with disabilities, but for everybody. 7 And I would just sort of caution not to be 8 too rapid in trying to box this in, because you might 9 in essence box out solutions. And then, secondly, 10 just suggesting that, again, with performance- based 11 requirements what you essentially do is provide the 12 opportunity for competition. 13 If you tell people how to design their 14 products, or what specifically has to be in there, it 15 may provide the near term solutions, but it may 16 prevent solutions, again, that we haven’t even 17 contemplated that ultimately may be much better for 18 the marketplace, and particularly for the industry. 19 Thank you. 20 MR. SCHROEDER: I just want to return to the 21 importance of looking at these IP services more 22 broadly than simply looking at Voice Over IP. I think 23 this question really points to the need for that. 24 Ken, your point is not doubt right at some 25 154 155 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com level. It doesn't seem to be proving right in terms 1 of actually getting technology companies to move 2 forward, even on the design standards that are 3 required. 4 Let me make a broader point, which is the 5 needs of those of us with disabilities don't change as 6 rapidly as technology does. They don’t change over 7 hundreds of years very much. 8 I can’t see today. I won’t be able to see 9 tomorrow, and I won’t be able to see in a hundred 10 years when I’m up there near Gregg’s age. And so I’m 11 not going to be able to read text off of a screen any 12 better tomorrow than I am today, and any better five 13 years from now. 14 So, unless that text can be converted into 15 something accessible, speech or Braille for the 16 moment, I can’t use it. I’m not going to be able to 17 find a button on a touch screen any better tomorrow 18 than I am today, and any better in five years. 19 So, unless that button that controls the 20 device is identifiable by the means that I have at my 21 disposal, I’m not going to be able to use it. And so, 22 one of the beauties to me of section 255, and really 23 the 508 standards as well, is that they really do 24 speak to user needs. 25 155 156 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com So while the technology changes, and while 1 we should be promoting accessible design with rapid 2 innovation, the needs of the users don’t change 3 dramatically. 4 And the ability to interface with technology 5 is very much dependant on one’s disability. And so 6 the reason we feel it’s so important for the 7 Commission to broaden its view of this notice, to not 8 just focus on voice, but to focus on all IP services. 9 And we argue the same thing back in the 10 further notice of inquiry. We tried to get you to fit 11 email in as a telecom service. We still think that’s 12 right, because essentially it is communications going 13 on. 14 The point is, we don’t have any sense that 15 we’re going to have access to it as blind people, 16 because our needs, to be able to have access to 17 something in a non- visual way, or in a way that uses 18 our low vision, don’t change over time. 19 And the technology industry needs to be able 20 to provide those solutions, yes, through innovation. 21 But the solutions need to be provided. And for my 22 money the only way they are going to happen is through 23 a regulatory mandate. 24 MR. CARLISLE: We are going to have two last 25 156 157 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com answers. One from Ed, and then one from Gregg. And 1 then we’ll conclude the panel. 2 MR. VANDERHEIDEN: Just a quick one. There 3 is something between the functional performance and 4 the very, very specific design that we might be 5 considering. 6 It has to be measurement- based. But we 7 could talk about measurement- based functional 8 performance that looks at, again as Paul had talked 9 about, what is it that an individual, whether they are 10 sighted or blind or whatever, needs to be able to get? 11 And then can we provide some measurements as 12 to whether or not this is being provided in fashions 13 that can be made into the form that people need. And 14 the only key on it is that we need to do these 15 measurements under duress. 16 Doing these things to telecom systems in 17 ideal situation isn’t going to do it. 18 MR. CARLISLE: Well, I want to thank all of 19 our panelists for giving us an awful lot to think 20 about on this, and also solutions for some of the 21 issues that we’ve got. 22 This is a Solutions Summit, I think you all 23 came with a very specific set of recommendations for 24 us. And in the months to come we will be taking them 25 157 158 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com very seriously. Thank you, very much. 1 What we’d like to do now is welcome to the 2 podium the Chairman of the FCC, Michael Powell, who 3 will be providing us with closing remarks. 4 CLOSING REMARKS 5 CHAIRMAN POWELL: Thank you Jeff. And 6 welcome to all of you here at the Federal 7 Communications Commission. You know, I have a text 8 here, but I think I’m going to push it aside and talk 9 from our experience and from my heart. 10 We all have recognized, and probably have 11 heard today, enormous potential that IP- enabled 12 services provide for all kinds of consumer welfare 13 enhancing applications. 14 And to take off from a comment I heard a 15 minute ago, it’s about anything and everything IP. 16 Voice is one manifestation. But if it by no means 17 will be the only one. 18 And this causes, as is natural in public 19 policy debate, an immediate recitation of the 20 problems. But what this is in part an effort to do is 21 to talk about the opportunities at the earliest 22 possible stage. 23 I tend to think about the break through in 24 IP technology as putting more tools in a tool box to 25 158 159 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com use to solve the problems of the public, whether it be 1 universal service, in which we have always had, one 2 solution, to try to bring services to very despaired 3 communities, different geographies, different 4 demographics, different socio- demographic classes. 5 That made that problem very, very difficult. 6 We may have the opportunity to use a host or suite of 7 IP- enabled devices and technologies and services in 8 different segments of the industry to promote and 9 tackle problems at a deeper level, and a quicker and 10 more responsive level. 11 And that’s what I think IP holds the promise 12 for us all to do. Now, while the initial debates 13 about Voice Over IP have largely been about whether 14 you should regulate, for economic purposes, the way 15 you regulate the telephone system, it occurred to us 16 that there were core values that should stand outside 17 of that value, core values that no matter what the 18 communication system is, just to take off on the 19 comment about the human being doesn't change. 20 The human being in core values that are 21 needed to be preserved aren’t going to change either. 22 We wanted to, at an early stage, highlight and focus 23 on those things specifically and specially. 24 And disability access to my mind, and to our 25 159 160 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com passion, is one of those things. I have been here for 1 seven years, and worked on many issues for the 2 disability community. 3 And we have had many proceedings on them 4 over the years. But there’s always the same criticism 5 and problem about policies approach to disability 6 access issues. 7 It’s always being retrofitted. It’s always 8 being bolted on at the end. And it’s always twice as 9 difficult because it’s being thought of at the end, 10 after investments have been made, choices have been 11 made, policies have been developed. 12 And, oh by the way, let’s take care of this 13 function in the mature stages. What the Solutions 14 Summits approach is, or intent to do, is for those 15 core values, bring those stake holders in this 16 community together at the earliest possible stage. 17 That is as early as and as swiftly as 18 government agencies can move, to begin to talk about 19 quickly identifying the kinds of problems, the scope 20 of what we’d like to see solved, to engage the stake 21 holders, create the networks, talk about the 22 regulatory policies right from the beginning. 23 And that’s why we have asked you all to come 24 here and be a part of this, and why this is so 25 160 161 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com valuable to us and -- I think if we do it right -- to 1 you. 2 And it’s also a way of providing a 3 collective expertise to our legislator, and our 4 president, about how these issues will unfold in the 5 years to come long after this particular Commission, 6 or even any of the people in this room, are still 7 working on these issues. 8 So, this is vital. It is critical. It may 9 even be a little novel. But in that I think is 10 promise. And I just wanted to offer my personal 11 commitment to you that that’s what we’re attempting to 12 do. 13 We want to be partners in that. We want to 14 be driven by that. And we will continue to do so. 15 But you all are a critical voice or access to 16 understanding where those problems lie. 17 So I hope this is not just an event that we 18 will celebrate having happened on this day in may. 19 But it really is the inauguration of a relationship 20 and a dialogue that over the next five, ten, twenty, 21 and thirty years, will be able to be a demonstration 22 in the information age as to how these kinds of core 23 values can be predicted, preserved in a regulatory 24 exercise. And so, thank you very much for being with 25 161 162 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N. W. (202) 234- 4433 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20005- 3701 www. nealrgross. com us. Thank you very much for your insights. I assure 1 you we have all this recorded. I personally am going 2 to watch the whole summit. 3 And I look forward to working with you in 4 the days and years to come to make this a reality and 5 have us celebrating that the internet revolution truly 6 was a revolution for everybody. 7 And so with that, again, I thank you. I 8 thank you for having me with you. And I look forward 9 to our continuing relationship, best of luck. 10 MR. CARLISLE: All right, with that I will 11 call the Solutions Summit to a close. Although I 12 would hope that the people in this room and that 13 people who have the benefit of watching us over the 14 internet will interface with each other and talk with 15 each other and continue the dialogue on these issues. 16 Just to remind you, this will be archived on 17 our webpage. Please go to www. fcc. gov/ ipwg for the 18 webcast. And today’s presentation and transcript will 19 become part of the public record in our IP- enabled 20 services NPRM docket number WCP04- 36. 21 So that’s an appropriately regulatory way to 22 end. But thank you very much for coming. 23 (Whereupon, the proceedings went off the 24 record.) 25 162