From - Tue May 19 16:37:31 1998 Message-Id: <000019D9@ntiahq3.ntia.doc.gov> Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 16:23:23 -0400 From: "Karen Rose" To: Herschel Gelman Subject: ARIN, NSI and the NSF -Forwarded -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_B3E7EA62.35543859" This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to properly handle MIME multipart messages. --=_B3E7EA62.35543859 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline -K --=_B3E7EA62.35543859 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 16:13:42 -0400 From: "Becky Burr" To: Karen Rose Subject: ARIN, NSI and the NSF -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_B3E7EA62.36573B5A" --=_B3E7EA62.36573B5A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline --=_B3E7EA62.36573B5A Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from webster.unir.net ([207.32.159.5]) by doorstep.unety.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA20934; Wed, 13 May 1998 12:18:29 -0500 Received: by webster.unir.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BD7E68.79C39000@webster.unir.net>; Wed, 13 May 1998 12:13:02 -0500 Message-ID: <01BD7E68.79C39000@webster.unir.net> From: Jim Fleming To: "'Kim Hubbard'" , Jerry Scharf Cc: "arin-council@arin.net" , "'BBURR@ntia.doc.gov'" , "'Don Mitchell'" , "'Ira Magaziner'" , "'lsundro@nsf.gov'" , "naipr@arin.net" Cc: "wimsey@rtci.com" Subject: ARIN, NSI and the NSF Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 12:13:00 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On Wednesday, May 13, 1998 7:16 AM, Kim Hubbard[SMTP:kimh@arin.net] wrote: @ @BTW, as for Jim's belief that NSI paid for ARINs costs the first quarter, @that is incorrect. NSI agreed to help ARIN financially in the first @quarter if we needed it. We did not. @=20 I guess NSI's recent SEC filing is not accurate. It clearly informs the NSI shareholders that they were funding ARIN. By the way...How does one set up such an arrangement with NSI and the NSF ? Is there a contract that says that NSI will help ARIN if you need it ? Is there an NSF agreement about all of this ? Also, why would ARIN be reporting in the Internet Monthly Report ? http://www.isi.edu/in-notes/imr/ That report has historically been for organizations and companies to fullfill their oblligations for reporting to the NSF in return for grant money. Is ARIN obligated to the NSF to report there ? What agreements does ARIN have with the NSF ? - Jim Fleming Unir Corporation - http://www.unir.net IPv8 - Designed for the Rest of the Human Race AM Radio Stations ---> http://www.DOT.AM --=_B3E7EA62.36573B5A-- --=_B3E7EA62.35543859-- From - Tue May 19 16:37:31 1998 Message-Id: <000019DD@ntiahq3.ntia.doc.gov> Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 16:23:24 -0400 From: "Karen Rose" To: Herschel Gelman Subject: The DOD and ARIN -Forwarded -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_42161B93.37563A5B" This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to properly handle MIME multipart messages. --=_42161B93.37563A5B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline -K --=_42161B93.37563A5B Content-Type: message/rfc822 Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 16:13:43 -0400 From: "Becky Burr" To: Karen Rose Subject: The DOD and ARIN -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_42161B93.30513D5C" --=_42161B93.30513D5C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline --=_42161B93.30513D5C Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from webster.unir.net ([207.32.159.5]) by doorstep.unety.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA21012; Wed, 13 May 1998 12:46:57 -0500 Received: by webster.unir.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BD7E6C.7364DE40@webster.unir.net>; Wed, 13 May 1998 12:41:29 -0500 Message-ID: <01BD7E6C.7364DE40@webster.unir.net> From: Jim Fleming To: "'ho@cs.arizona.edu'" Cc: "'BBURR@ntia.doc.gov'" , "'Camillo Pasquariello'" , "'Ira Magaziner'" , "'Jeff Williams'" , "'ARIN list'" Subject: The DOD and ARIN Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 12:41:23 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Hilarie, Are you a DOD contractor ? Is ARIN part of your job ? Jim Fleming @@@@@ http://www.arin.net/archives/arin-members.9805 From owner-arin-members Tue May 12 14:30:29 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by arin.net (8.8.5/8.8.0) id = OAA12210=20 for arin-members-outgoing; Tue, 12 May 1998 14:30:29 GMT Received: from rs.arin.net (rs1.arin.net [192.149.252.21]) by arin.net=20 (8.8.5/8.8.0) with SMTP id OAA12202 for ; Tue, = 12=20 May 1998 14:30:28 GMT Received: (qmail 25322 invoked from network); 12 May 1998 14:30:27 -0000 Received: from copernicus.hpc.org (HELO hpc.org) (@192.187.8.4) by rs1.arin.net with SMTP; 12 May 1998 14:30:27 -0000 Received: from earth.hpc.org (earth.hpc.org [192.187.8.34]) by hpc.org=20 (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id KAA08009; Tue, 12 May 1998 10:42:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by earth.hpc.org (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA29989; Tue, 12 May 1998 10:28:10 -0400 Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 10:28:10 -0400 From: ho@earth.hpc.org (Hilarie Orman) Message-Id: <199805121428.KAA29989@earth.hpc.org> To: arin-members@arin.net Cc: arin-council@arin.net Subject: Topics for AC meeting Sender: owner-arin-members@arin.net Precedence: bulk The advisory council will be meeting in late June, and I'd like to solicit topics from you for our deliberations. Our role is to make policy recommendations to the Board, and the input from members is a valued part of that process. Please send responses to me by the end of the month if you'd like the topic considered for discussion at the next meeting. We are happy to consider topics for inclusion on a longer term agenda, also. Hilarie Orman Arin AC Chairman ho@cs.arizona.edu ho@earth.hpc.org @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ - Jim Fleming Unir Corporation - http://www.unir.net IPv8 - Designed for the Rest of the Human Race AM Radio Stations ---> http://www.DOT.AM --=_42161B93.30513D5C-- --=_42161B93.37563A5B-- From - Tue May 19 16:37:32 1998 Message-Id: <000019DB@ntiahq3.ntia.doc.gov> Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 16:23:26 -0400 From: "Karen Rose" To: Herschel Gelman Subject: ARIN Mailing Lists -Forwarded -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_45111C94.31503C5D" This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to properly handle MIME multipart messages. --=_45111C94.31503C5D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline -K --=_45111C94.31503C5D Content-Type: message/rfc822 Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 16:13:43 -0400 From: "Becky Burr" To: Karen Rose Subject: ARIN Mailing Lists -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_45111C94.32533F5E" --=_45111C94.32533F5E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline --=_45111C94.32533F5E Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from webster.unir.net ([207.32.159.5]) by doorstep.unety.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA21017; Wed, 13 May 1998 12:52:12 -0500 Received: by webster.unir.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BD7E6D.2EF3B320@webster.unir.net>; Wed, 13 May 1998 12:46:44 -0500 Message-ID: <01BD7E6D.2EF3B320@webster.unir.net> From: Jim Fleming To: "'arin-council@arin.net'" , "'ARIN list'" Cc: "'Tony Rutkowski'" , "'Antitrust List'" , "'antitrust@usdoj.gov'" , "'apnic-talk@apnic.net'" , "'APPLe '" , "'BBURR@ntia.doc.gov'" Cc: "'Ira Magaziner'" , "'Jay@Iperdome.com'" , "'Jeff Williams'" Subject: ARIN Mailing Lists Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 12:46:42 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline John, Why aren't the e-mail discussions to which you refer posted on the ARIN web site ? Also, aren't these discussions subject to the "ex parte" rules because ARIN and IP number management is part of the Green Paper process ? Jim Fleming @@@@@ http://www.arin.net/archives/arin-members.9805 From owner-arin-members Tue May 12 21:57:42 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by arin.net (8.8.5/8.8.0) id = VAA05569=20 for arin-members-outgoing; Tue, 12 May 1998 21:57:42 GMT Received: (from pdenitto@localhost) by arin.net (8.8.5/8.8.0) id = VAA05564=20 for arin-members@arin.net; Tue, 12 May 1998 21:57:41 GMT Received: from rs.arin.net (rs1.arin.net [192.149.252.21]) by arin.net=20 (8.8.5/8.8.0) with SMTP id AAA11926 for ; Mon, = 11=20 May 1998 00:49:28 GMT Received: (qmail 24081 invoked from network); 11 May 1998 00:49:27 -0000 Received: from sword.bbnplanet.com (199.94.209.25) by rs1.arin.net with SMTP; 11 May 1998 00:49:27 -0000 Received: from jcurran.bbnplanet.com (jcurran.ne.mediaone.net=20 [24.128.40.80]) by sword.bbnplanet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA07453 for ; Sun, 10 May 1998 20:49:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19980510204354.00cecac4@mail.bbnplanet.com> X-Sender: jcurran@mail.bbnplanet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 20:43:54 -0400 To: arin-members@arin.net From: John Curran Subject: Regarding the email discussions of the last two months Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii" Sender: owner-arin-members@arin.net Precedence: bulk [... This message being resent due to delivery failure on first attempt=20 ...] Dear ARIN Members: You are all very much aware of the recent email volume over the last few months on the Advisory Council list and the ARIN Members' list discussing various aspects of ARIN policy and operation. The purpose of this letter is to make clear that the ARIN Board of Trustees is also very much aware of this discussion. The Board is interested in much of the subject matter and topics raised. However, the Board also regrets the tone that some of the exchanges have taken. The Board looks forward to hearing from the Advisory Council (AC) on many of the topics that have been raised, and has directed the AC to proceed with civil discussion towards consensus and recommendations. The ARIN Board will be meeting on June 30, the day after the AC meeting, and looks forward to any recommendations from the AC on these matters. Thanks, John Curran Chairman Board of Trustees @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ - Jim Fleming Unir Corporation - http://www.unir.net IPv8 - Designed for the Rest of the Human Race AM Radio Stations ---> http://www.DOT.AM --=_45111C94.32533F5E-- --=_45111C94.31503C5D-- From - Tue May 19 16:37:33 1998 Message-Id: <000019E1@ntiahq3.ntia.doc.gov> Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 16:23:28 -0400 From: "Karen Rose" To: Herschel Gelman Subject: ARIN and Ex-Parte Filings -Forwarded -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_45111C94.33523E5F" This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to properly handle MIME multipart messages. --=_45111C94.33523E5F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline -K --=_45111C94.33523E5F Content-Type: message/rfc822 Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 16:13:44 -0400 From: "Becky Burr" To: Karen Rose Subject: ARIN and Ex-Parte Filings -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_45111C94.2C4D2140" --=_45111C94.2C4D2140 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline --=_45111C94.2C4D2140 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from webster.unir.net ([207.32.159.5]) by doorstep.unety.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA21052; Wed, 13 May 1998 13:00:13 -0500 Received: by webster.unir.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BD7E6E.4BBE31A0@webster.unir.net>; Wed, 13 May 1998 12:54:41 -0500 Message-ID: <01BD7E6E.4BBE31A0@webster.unir.net> From: Jim Fleming To: "'arin-council@arin.net'" , "'ARIN list'" Cc: "'BBURR@ntia.doc.gov'" , "'Ira Magaziner'" Subject: ARIN and Ex-Parte Filings Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 12:54:40 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline @@@@ http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/domainname/130dftmail/Denninger.htm From: Karl Denninger =20 Date: 5/6/98 3:37pm=20 Subject: Ex-Parte comments for the record - teleconference=20 5/6/1998 12:40 PM=20 Present on teleconference: Karl Denninger, Jay Fenello, Ira Magaziner=20 The conference was requested by myself, with Mr. Fenello as a neutral=20 observer and interested party.=20 We discussed the role of ARIN as a public trustee over the essential=20 resource of IPv4 addresses and ARIN's recent activities, including=20 conversations held via email on multiple mailing lists, of which Ira=20 was already aware. I expressed the opinion that ARIN, while organized=20 as a 501c(6) organization, should operate as a trustee of the public=20 resource over which it has control, including full transparency of=20 operations to the public as well as its membership.=20 I also expressed my belief that the AC served the function of a check=20 and balance on the actions of the Trustees, in that the transparency=20 of the organization was maintained by their vigilence, and that it=20 was important that no restriction of that oversight, either by the=20 AC, ARIN members, or the general public take place.=20 Mr. Magaziner agreed with the public oversight and policy roles that=20 needed to be upheld within organizations charged with these functions,=20 and was supportive of the principles which were discussed. I was=20 impressed with the depth of knowledge and clarity which Ira displayed=20 during our discussion.=20 The teleconference concluded at approximately 11:55 PM Chicago time.=20 --=20 --=20 Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and = Wisconsin=20 http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly / All Lines K56Flex/DOV=20 | NEW! Corporate ISDN Prices dropped by up to 50%!=20 Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL = ACCOUNTS=20 Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost=20 @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ - Jim Fleming Unir Corporation - http://www.unir.net IPv8 - Designed for the Rest of the Human Race AM Radio Stations ---> http://www.DOT.AM --=_45111C94.2C4D2140-- --=_45111C94.33523E5F-- From - Tue May 19 16:37:33 1998 Message-Id: <000019DF@ntiahq3.ntia.doc.gov> Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 16:23:30 -0400 From: "Karen Rose" To: Herschel Gelman Subject: RE: DARPA and the DOD -Forwarded -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_44101D95.2D4C2041" This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to properly handle MIME multipart messages. --=_44101D95.2D4C2041 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline -K --=_44101D95.2D4C2041 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 16:13:45 -0400 From: "Becky Burr" To: Karen Rose Subject: RE: DARPA and the DOD -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_44101D95.2E4F2342" --=_44101D95.2E4F2342 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline --=_44101D95.2E4F2342 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from webster.unir.net ([207.32.159.5]) by doorstep.unety.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA21184; Wed, 13 May 1998 13:41:54 -0500 Received: by webster.unir.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BD7E74.205FD760@webster.unir.net>; Wed, 13 May 1998 13:36:26 -0500 Message-ID: <01BD7E74.205FD760@webster.unir.net> From: Jim Fleming To: "'Hilarie Orman'" , "'Karl Denninger'" Cc: "'arin-council@arin.net'" , "'BBURR@ntia.doc.gov'" , "'Ira Magaziner'" , "'ARIN list'" Subject: RE: DARPA and the DOD Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 13:36:24 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On Wednesday, May 13, 1998 1:33 PM, Karl Denninger[SMTP:karl@mcs.net] = wrote: @Ok, its stupid question time: @ @ So what? @ I posted a question to Hilarie Orman asking whether she is a DOD contractor. Some people may think that DARPA is not part of the DOD. Also, it would be good to clarify what Hilarie Orman's status is with respect to DARPA and the DOD because she is apparently the chairperson of the ARIN Advisory Committee and DARPA currently has contracts with Jon Postel (aka IANA). Jon Postel of course is on the Board of Directors of ARIN. In summary, maybe it would be good for Hilarie Orman to explain what she does for a living and if that relates to Jon Postel, the IANA, DARPA, DOD, etc. Also, if she is a U.S. Government employee or contractor, would that not make her subject to the "ex-parte" rules of the Green Paper that you have followed with respect to ARIN ? @@@@@ http://www.arin.net/archives/arin-members.9805 >From owner-arin-members Tue May 12 14:30:29 1998 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by arin.net (8.8.5/8.8.0) id = OAA12210=20 for arin-members-outgoing; Tue, 12 May 1998 14:30:29 GMT Received: from rs.arin.net (rs1.arin.net [192.149.252.21]) by arin.net=20 (8.8.5/8.8.0) with SMTP id OAA12202 for ; Tue, = 12=20 May 1998 14:30:28 GMT Received: (qmail 25322 invoked from network); 12 May 1998 14:30:27 -0000 Received: from copernicus.hpc.org (HELO hpc.org) (@192.187.8.4) by rs1.arin.net with SMTP; 12 May 1998 14:30:27 -0000 Received: from earth.hpc.org (earth.hpc.org [192.187.8.34]) by hpc.org=20 (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id KAA08009; Tue, 12 May 1998 10:42:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by earth.hpc.org (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA29989; Tue, 12 May 1998 10:28:10 -0400 Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 10:28:10 -0400 From: ho@earth.hpc.org (Hilarie Orman) Message-Id: <199805121428.KAA29989@earth.hpc.org> To: arin-members@arin.net Cc: arin-council@arin.net Subject: Topics for AC meeting Sender: owner-arin-members@arin.net Precedence: bulk The advisory council will be meeting in late June, and I'd like to solicit topics from you for our deliberations. Our role is to make policy recommendations to the Board, and the input from members is a valued part of that process. Please send responses to me by the end of the month if you'd like the topic considered for discussion at the next meeting. We are happy to consider topics for inclusion on a longer term agenda, also. Hilarie Orman Arin AC Chairman ho@cs.arizona.edu ho@earth.hpc.org @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ - Jim Fleming Unir Corporation - http://www.unir.net IPv8 - Designed for the Rest of the Human Race AM Radio Stations ---> http://www.DOT.AM --=_44101D95.2E4F2342-- --=_44101D95.2D4C2041-- From - Tue May 19 16:37:34 1998 Message-Id: <000019E3@ntiahq3.ntia.doc.gov> Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 16:23:32 -0400 From: "Karen Rose" To: Herschel Gelman Subject: RE: The DOD and ARIN -Forwarded -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_44101D95.2F4E2243" This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to properly handle MIME multipart messages. --=_44101D95.2F4E2243 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline -K --=_44101D95.2F4E2243 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 16:13:46 -0400 From: "Becky Burr" To: Karen Rose Subject: RE: The DOD and ARIN -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_44101D95.28492544" --=_44101D95.28492544 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline --=_44101D95.28492544 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from webster.unir.net ([207.32.159.5]) by doorstep.unety.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA21238; Wed, 13 May 1998 14:05:47 -0500 Received: by webster.unir.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BD7E77.76BDCC40@webster.unir.net>; Wed, 13 May 1998 14:00:19 -0500 Message-ID: <01BD7E77.76BDCC40@webster.unir.net> From: Jim Fleming To: "'Hilarie Orman'" Cc: "BBURR@ntia.doc.gov" , "Camillo.Pasquariello@mci2000.com" , "Ira Magaziner" , "'John Curran'" , "jwkckid1@IX.NETCOM.COM" , "naipr@arin.net" Subject: RE: The DOD and ARIN Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 14:00:18 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On Wednesday, May 13, 1998 6:57 AM, Hilarie Orman[SMTP:ho@baskerville.CS.Ar= izona.EDU] wrote: @To repeat, for all ... @ @DARPA is funded by Congress, it is an agency in DoD, and I am a DARPA @employee on interim assignment from the University of Arizona. The @technical term is "IPA" and refers to provisions of the 1972 Federal @Employment Act. @ @ARIN participation is not part of my job. @ Do you have anything to do with the IANA contracts and Jon Postel ? Will all of the ARIN mailing lists discussions be made part of the public record according to the "ex-parte" rules for the Green Paper ? John Curran has referred to mailing list discussions that evidently are not being posted on the ARIN web site. Some of those are apparently from the Advisory Council that you chair. - Jim Fleming Unir Corporation - http://www.unir.net IPv8 - Designed for the Rest of the Human Race AM Radio Stations ---> http://www.DOT.AM --=_44101D95.28492544-- --=_44101D95.2F4E2243-- From - Tue May 19 16:37:34 1998 Message-Id: <000019E5@ntiahq3.ntia.doc.gov> Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 16:23:35 -0400 From: "Karen Rose" To: Herschel Gelman Subject: ARIN Advisory Council == Members ? -Forwarded -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_47131E96.29482445" This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to properly handle MIME multipart messages. --=_47131E96.29482445 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline -K --=_47131E96.29482445 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 16:13:47 -0400 From: "Becky Burr" To: Karen Rose Subject: ARIN Advisory Council == Members ? -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_47131E96.2A4B2746" --=_47131E96.2A4B2746 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline --=_47131E96.2A4B2746 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from webster.unir.net ([207.32.159.5]) by doorstep.unety.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA21516; Wed, 13 May 1998 18:05:22 -0500 Received: by webster.unir.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BD7E98.EEF7FC00@webster.unir.net>; Wed, 13 May 1998 17:59:54 -0500 Message-ID: <01BD7E98.EEF7FC00@webster.unir.net> From: Jim Fleming To: "'ARIN list'" Cc: "'arin-council@arin.net'" , "'BBURR@ntia.doc.gov'" , "'Ira Magaziner'" Subject: ARIN Advisory Council == Members ? Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 17:59:53 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Are ALL of the members of the ARIN Advisory Council "members" of ARIN ? http://www.arin.net/council.html @@@@ http://www.arin.net/board.html "Membership is required for meeting attendance, for any future membership-based voting such as Advisory Council members and for membership on the Advisory Council." @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ BTW...how is membership determined ? Company ownership ? Company employment ? Individual memberships ? - Jim Fleming Unir Corporation - http://www.unir.net IPv8 - Designed for the Rest of the Human Race AM Radio Stations ---> http://www.DOT.AM --=_47131E96.2A4B2746-- --=_47131E96.29482445-- From - Tue May 19 16:37:35 1998 Message-Id: <000019E6@ntiahq3.ntia.doc.gov> Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 16:23:35 -0400 From: "Karen Rose" To: Herschel Gelman Subject: AT&T Competes with ARIN ? -Forwarded -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_46121F97.2B4A2647" This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to properly handle MIME multipart messages. --=_46121F97.2B4A2647 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline -K --=_46121F97.2B4A2647 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 16:13:48 -0400 From: "Becky Burr" To: Karen Rose Subject: AT&T Competes with ARIN ? -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_46121F97.24452948" --=_46121F97.24452948 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline --=_46121F97.24452948 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from webster.unir.net ([207.32.159.5]) by doorstep.unety.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA21557; Wed, 13 May 1998 18:39:55 -0500 Received: by webster.unir.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BD7E9D.C278BDE0@webster.unir.net>; Wed, 13 May 1998 18:34:27 -0500 Message-ID: <01BD7E9D.C278BDE0@webster.unir.net> From: Jim Fleming To: "'ARIN list'" Cc: "'arin-council@arin.net'" , "'BBURR@ntia.doc.gov'" , "'Ira Magaziner'" Subject: AT&T Competes with ARIN ? Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 18:34:26 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline People have pointed out that IPv4 addresses are not the scarce resource. Route table entries are of more concern. People have also pointed out that private companies with large allocations (/8s) can start to lease or sell blocks which will become announced just like blocks from ARIN, thus adding to the number of route table entries. Others claim that this will not happen because those specific routes will not be announced. Based on the following, AT&T is clearly starting to delegate the 12.0.0.0 address space in such a way that it will add entries to the route tables. Does ARIN or the IANA manage this ? http://www.merit.edu/mail.archives/html/nanog/msg02336.html If ARIN does not manage this, then what stops all of the current /8 "owners" from selling or leasing blocks in their address space ? What impact would that have on the route table entries ? How does that impact ARIN's business plan ? - Jim Fleming Unir Corporation - http://www.unir.net IPv8 - Designed for the Rest of the Human Race AM Radio Stations ---> http://www.DOT.AM --=_46121F97.24452948-- --=_46121F97.2B4A2647-- From - Tue May 19 16:37:35 1998 Message-Id: <000019EF@ntiahq3.ntia.doc.gov> Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 16:23:38 -0400 From: "Karen Rose" To: Herschel Gelman Subject: $769,945 for ARIN ? -Forwarded -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_46121F97.25442849" This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to properly handle MIME multipart messages. --=_46121F97.25442849 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline -K --=_46121F97.25442849 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 16:13:50 -0400 From: "Becky Burr" To: Karen Rose Subject: $769,945 for ARIN ? -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_46121F97.26472B4A" --=_46121F97.26472B4A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline --=_46121F97.26472B4A Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from webster.unir.net ([207.32.159.5]) by doorstep.unety.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA21646; Wed, 13 May 1998 20:08:49 -0500 Received: by webster.unir.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BD7EAA.2DA3EDE0@webster.unir.net>; Wed, 13 May 1998 20:03:21 -0500 Message-ID: <01BD7EAA.2DA3EDE0@webster.unir.net> From: Jim Fleming To: "'Randy Bush'" Cc: "'arin-council@arin.net'" , "'BBURR@ntia.doc.gov'" , "'Ira Magaziner'" , "'ARIN list'" Subject: $769,945 for ARIN ? Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 20:03:19 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Randy, Since you were instrumental in setting up ARIN. How much of the following grant was spent on ARIN ? @@@@ http://www.nsf.gov/cgi-bin/showaward?award=3D9616597 NSF Award Abstract - #9616597 Network Startup Resource Center (NSRC) NSF Org ANI=09 Latest Amendment Date April 3, 1997=09 Award Number 9616597=09 Award Instr. Continuing Grant=09 Prgm Manager Steven N. Goldstein ANI DIV OF ADVANCED NETWOR INFRA & = RESEARCH CSE DIRECT FOR COMPUTER & INFO SCIE & ENGINR=09 Start Date October 1, 1996=09 Expires September 30, 1999 (Estimated)=09 Expected Total Amt. $769,945 (Estimated)=09 Investigator Randall J Bush=09 Sponsor U of Oregon Eugene 5219 University of Oregon Eugene, OR = 974035219 503/686-3111 =09 NSF Program 4090 ADVANCED NET INFRA & RSCH=09 Fld Applictn 0206000 Telecommunications=09 @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ - Jim Fleming Unir Corporation - http://www.unir.net IPv8 - Designed for the Rest of the Human Race AM Radio Stations ---> http://www.DOT.AM --=_46121F97.26472B4A-- --=_46121F97.25442849-- From - Tue May 19 16:37:36 1998 Message-Id: <000019EA@ntiahq3.ntia.doc.gov> Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 16:23:40 -0400 From: "Karen Rose" To: Herschel Gelman Subject: Who owns 12.0.0.0 ? AT&T or ARIN ? -Forwarded -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_491D1098.27462A4B" This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to properly handle MIME multipart messages. --=_491D1098.27462A4B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline -K --=_491D1098.27462A4B Content-Type: message/rfc822 Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 16:13:50 -0400 From: "Becky Burr" To: Karen Rose Subject: Who owns 12.0.0.0 ? AT&T or ARIN ? -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_491D1098.20412D4C" --=_491D1098.20412D4C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline --=_491D1098.20412D4C Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from webster.unir.net ([207.32.159.5]) by doorstep.unety.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA23826; Thu, 14 May 1998 08:51:22 -0500 Received: by webster.unir.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BD7F14.B3AA5540@webster.unir.net>; Thu, 14 May 1998 08:45:52 -0500 Message-ID: <01BD7F14.B3AA5540@webster.unir.net> From: Jim Fleming To: "'arin-council@arin.net'" , "'ARIN list'" Cc: "'Antitrust List'" , "'antitrust@usdoj.gov'" , "'BBURR@ntia.doc.gov'" , "'Ira Magaziner'" Subject: Who owns 12.0.0.0 ? AT&T or ARIN ? Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 08:45:51 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline According to the following, AT&T is now allocating IPv4 addresses in the 12.0.0.0 range and companies are advertising them on other networks. http://www.merit.edu/mail.archives/html/nanog/msg02336.html As shown below[1] apparently ARIN maintains the ownership records of these blocks. Do these companies have to pay ARIN for these blocks ? If not, how does ARIN recover the cost of maintaining AT&T's records ? Are those costs taxed to ARIN members and companies that get addresses directly from ARIN ? Why would a company pay ARIN if they can go to AT&T to obtain address space ? Why does AT&T have a /8 to allocate in this manner ? How do other companies get /8s ? Jim Fleming =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D [1] $ whois -h whois.arin.net 12.0.0.0 Aborting search 256 records found ..... 360 Group (NETBLK-360GROUP-1864)360GROUP-1864 12.7.18.64 - = 12.7.18.127 AFL/ Air Line Pilots Association (NETBLK-AIRLINEPILOTS-640) AIRLINEPILOTS-6= 40 12.4.64.0 - = 12.4.64.255 AFL/CIO American Postal Workers Union (NETBLK-APWU-2016) APWU-2016 12.4.20.16 - = 12.4.20.31 AFL/CIO Union Privilege (NETBLK-AFLUNION-2064) AFLUNION-2064 12.4.20.64 - = 12.4.20.127 ARUP (NETBLK-ARUP-1320) ARUP-1320 12.10.132.0 - 12.10.133.= 255 AST Travel (NETBLK-ICS-127) ICS-127 12.9.127.0 - = 12.9.127.255 Aliant Air Cargo (NETBLK-ALIANT-224128) ALIANT-224128 12.7.224.128 - = 12.7.224.191 Ambassador Travel Conference Planners (NETBLK-CPLAN-2240) CPLAN-2240 12.7.224.0 - = 12.7.224.127 American Buildings Co (NETBLK-ICS-109) ICS-109 12.8.109.0 - = 12.8.109.255 Americold Corporation (NETBLK-AMER503-80) AMER503-80 12.9.80.0 - = 12.9.80.255 Anomatic Corp (NETBLK-ANOMATIC-2400) ANOMATIC-2400 12.2.240.0 - = 12.2.240.63 Applied MicroSystems (NETBLK-APPLIEDMICRO-6696) APPLIEDMICRO-6696 12.7.66.96 - = 12.7.66.111 Aquidneck Management Assoc. (NETBLK-AMALTD-1990) AMALTD-1990 12.6.199.0 - = 12.6.199.255 Aquidneck Management Assoc. (NETBLK-AMALTD-2040) AMALTD-2040 12.6.204.0 - = 12.6.205.255 Ashton Wholesale (NETBLK-ASHT402-115) ASHT402-115 12.5.115.0 - = 12.5.115.255 Aurora BioSciences (NETBLK-AURORABIO-1780) AURORABIO-1780 12.9.178.0 - = 12.9.178.255 Baker & McKenzie (NETBLK-BAKERWEB-200) BAKERWEB-200 12.2.20.0 - = 12.2.20.255 Baldwin & Lyons, Inc. (NETBLK-BALDWINLYONS-33128) BALDWINLYONS-33128 12.2.33.128 - = 12.2.33.143 Barnes Wholesale (NETBLK-BARN310-84) BARN310-84 12.9.84.0 - = 12.9.84.255 Bayside Controls (NETBLK-BAYSIDE-1330) BAYSIDE-1330 12.3.133.0 - = 12.3.133.255 Berkshire Life Insurance Company (NETBLK-BERK6171-124) BERK6171-124 12.5.124.0 - = 12.5.124.255 Biosound (NETBLK-1-123) 1-123 12.1.123.0 - = 12.1.123.255 Biznexus (NETBLK-BIZNEXUS-1450) BIZNEXUS-1450 12.4.145.0 - = 12.4.145.255 Brantley Telephone Company (NETBLK-BRANTLEYTEL-1300) BRANTLEYTEL-1300 12.8.130.0 - = 12.8.130.127 Burns Philp Food North America (NETBLK-ICS-124) ICS-124 12.9.124.0 - = 12.9.124.255 Business Records Corp. (NETBLK-BRC214-99) BRC214-99 12.5.99.0 - = 12.5.99.255 CGH Insurance (NETBLK-CGH-123) CGH-123 12.0.123.0 - = 12.0.123.255 COLUMBIA NATIONAL INC (NETBLK-COLU410-100) COLU410-100 12.0.100.0 - = 12.0.100.255 CST Office Products, Inc. (NETBLK-CSTO847-99) CSTO847-99 12.1.99.0 - = 12.1.99.255 Centeon (NETBLK-CENTEON-340) CENTEON-340 12.3.34.0 - = 12.3.34.31 Chadbourne and Parke LLC (NETBLK-CHAD212-78) CHAD212-7812.0.78.0 - = 12.0.78.255 Clarke, Lanzen and Skalla Investment Firm (NETBLK-CLSI402-97) CLSI402-97 12.1.97.0 - = 12.1.97.255 Clayco Construction Co. (NETBLK-CLAYCO-1160) CLAYCO-1160 12.10.116.0 - 12.10.116.= 255 Clifton Gunderson L. L. C. (NETBLK-CIN1245-79) CIN1245-79 12.1.79.0 - = 12.1.79.255 College Foundation (NETBLK-COLLEGEFOUND-30) COLLEGEFOUND-30 12.4.3.0 - = 12.4.3.255 Coltrin & Associates (NETBLK-COLTRIN-50128) COLTRIN-50128 12.3.50.128 - = 12.3.50.255 Columbia Daily Tribune (NETBLK-TRIBNET-1120) TRIBNET-1120 12.10.112.0 - 12.10.114.= 255 Columbia Management (NETBLK-COLUMBIA-330) COLUMBIA-330 12.7.33.0 - = 12.7.33.255 Commercial Wire Rope and Supply Co. (NETBLK-CIN1235-78) CIN1235-78 12.1.78.0 - = 12.1.78.255 Computing Ability Inc (NETBLK-ICS-116) ICS-116 12.0.116.0 - = 12.0.116.255 Computype (NETBLK-COMPUTYPE-520)COMPUTYPE-520 12.2.52.0 - = 12.2.52.255 Consol Inc. (NETBLK-CONSOL-2260)CONSOL-2260 12.4.226.0 - = 12.4.226.31 Consolidated Stores (NETBLK-CONSOLIDATED-91) CONSOLIDATED-91 12.1.91.0 - = 12.1.91.255 Conterm (NETBLK-CONTERM-2250) CONTERM-2250 12.9.225.0 - = 12.9.225.255 Continental Ozark (NETBLK-OZAR501-123) OZAR501-123 12.5.123.0 - = 12.5.123.255 Copart (NETBLK-COPART-13016) COPART-13016 12.7.130.16 - = 12.7.130.31 Core West Banc (NETBLK-CORE310-88) CORE310-88 12.9.88.0 - = 12.9.88.255 Costco Wholesale (NETBLK-COSTCO-66128) COSTCO-66128 12.7.66.128 - = 12.7.66.191 CourterCo (NETBLK-COUR317-126) COUR317-126 12.1.126.0 - = 12.1.126.255 Crawford Fitting Company (NETBLK-CFC216-64) CFC216-64 12.1.64.0 - = 12.1.64.255 DF Young, Inc. (NETBLK-DFYOUNG-880) DFYOUNG-880 12.3.88.0 - = 12.3.88.127 Dairy Management (NETBLK-1-115) 1-115 12.0.115.0 - = 12.0.115.255 Dairy Management- Columbus (NETBLK-DAIR614-66) DAIR614-66 12.1.66.0 - = 12.1.66.255 Datalink (NETBLK-DATALINK-500) DATALINK-500 12.2.50.0 - = 12.2.50.15 Defense Research Institute (NETBLK-DEFE312-120) DEFE312-120 12.1.120.0 - = 12.1.120.255 Delta Apparel Company (NETBLK-DELTAAPPAREL-14716) DELTAAPPAREL-14716 12.6.147.16 - = 12.6.147.31 Delta Consulting (NETBLK-DELTACON-520) DELTACON-520 12.3.52.0 - = 12.3.52.255 Den America Corporation (NETBLK-DENAMERICA-1320) DENAMERICA-1320 12.9.132.0 - = 12.9.132.255 Devise Associates (NETBLK-DEVI212-126) DEVI212-126 12.0.126.0 - = 12.0.126.255 Donna Karan NY (NETBLK-DONN212-75) DONN212-75 12.0.75.0 - = 12.0.75.255 Duferco Steel (NETBLK-DUFERCO-163128) DUFERCO-163128 12.3.163.128 - = 12.3.163.255 EH Brown Advertising (NETBLK-EHBR312-117) EHBR312-11712.1.117.0 - = 12.1.117.255 ERNI Components, Inc. (NETBLK-CIN503-123) CIN503-123 12.9.123.0 - = 12.9.123.255 ERNI Components, Inc. (NETBLK-CIN1252-119) CIN1252-119 12.0.119.0 - = 12.0.119.255 Earthwatch (NETBLK-EARTHWATCH1-1310) EARTHWATCH1-131012.7.131.0 - = 12.7.131.255 Earthwatch Inc (NETBLK-EARTHWATCH-2260) EARTHWATCH-2260 12.10.226.0 - 12.10.226.= 255 Edwin B. Stimpson (NETBLK-STIMPSON-1320) STIMPSON-132012.3.132.0 - = 12.3.132.63 Eltech (NETBLK-ELTE216-69) ELTE216-69 12.1.69.0 - = 12.1.69.255 Emeritus Corporation (NETBLK-EMERITUS-670) EMERITUS-67012.7.67.0 - = 12.7.67.255 Epoxy Technology (NETBLK-EPOXY-1960) EPOXY-1960 12.6.196.0 - = 12.6.196.31 Erico, Inc. (NETBLK-ERIC216-70) ERIC216-70 12.1.70.0 - = 12.1.70.255 FEL PRO CORPORATION (NETBLK-FELP847-81) FELP847-81 12.1.81.0 - = 12.1.81.255 Fidelity National Title (NETBLK-FIDE212-73) FIDE212-73 12.0.73.0 - = 12.0.73.255 Flagstar- Dallas (NETBLK-FLAG214-121) FLAG214-121 12.5.121.0 - = 12.5.121.255 Flagstar- LA (NETBLK-FLAG602-82)FLAG602-82 12.9.82.0 - = 12.9.82.255 Flexcon Company Inc (NETBLK-FLEX508-124) FLEX508-124 12.0.124.0 - = 12.0.124.255 Florsheim Group (NETBLK-FLORSHEIM-220) FLORSHEIM-220 12.2.22.0 - = 12.2.22.255 Forstmann (NETBLK-FORSTMANN-1470) FORSTMANN-1470 12.6.147.0 - = 12.6.147.15 GUARDIAN INDUSTRIED CORPORATION (NETBLK-GUARDIAN-120) GUARDIAN-120 12.0.120.0 - = 12.0.120.255 Georgson & Co (NETBLK-GEOR212-80) GEOR212-80 12.0.80.0 - = 12.0.80.255 GodFrey & Kahn, S.C. (NETBLK-GODFREY-109) GODFREY-10912.1.109.0 - = 12.1.109.255 Golden Eagle Network (NETBLK-GEN-122) GEN-122 12.0.122.0 - = 12.0.122.255 Goodyear Tire and Rubber (NETBLK-GOODYEAR-86) GOODYEAR-86 12.1.86.0 - = 12.1.86.255 Great Lakes Gas Transmission (NETBLK-GREAT-LAKES-1920) GREAT-LAKES-1920 12.2.192.0 - = 12.2.192.255 HENDRICKSON INTERNATIONAL (NETBLK-HENDRICKSON-77) HENDRICKSON-77 12.1.77.0 - = 12.1.77.255 HJM Consulting (NETBLK-HJMCONSLT-510) HJMCONSLT-510 12.3.51.0 - = 12.3.51.255 HSB Reliability - Alexandria (NETBLK-HSBR703-106) HSBR703-106 12.0.106.0 - = 12.0.106.255 Hallmark Cards, Inc. (NETBLK-CIN509-107) CIN509-107 12.5.107.0 - = 12.5.107.255 Hallmark Cards, Inc. (NETBLK-HALL406-122) HALL406-12212.9.122.0 - = 12.9.122.255 Healthcare Underwriters Mutual (NETBLK-HEALTHCARE-17764) HEALTHCARE-17764 12.3.177.64 - = 12.3.177.127 Holiday Rambler (NETBLK-HOLI219-34) HOLI219-34 12.1.34.0 - = 12.1.34.255 Holiday Rambler (NETBLK-HOLI219-35) HOLI219-35 12.1.35.0 - = 12.1.35.255 Hudson's and Fields Credit U (NETBLK-HUDC461-111) HUDC461-111 12.1.111.0 - = 12.1.111.255 Hudson's and Fields Credit U (NETBLK-HUDS461-112) HUDS461-112 12.1.112.0 - = 12.1.112.255 Hytrol Conveyor (NETBLK-HYTROL-810) HYTROL-810 12.10.81.0 - = 12.10.81.63 I-car (NETBLK-ICAR847-104) ICAR847-104 12.1.104.0 - = 12.1.104.255 ICS Customer Operations Center (NETBLK-ICSCC-102) ICSCC-102 12.0.102.0 - = 12.0.102.255 INET City (NETBLK-INETCITY-1460)INETCITY-1460 12.2.146.0 - = 12.2.147.255 INTEGRATED MEDICAL DELIVERY CORPORATION (NETBLK-INTE847-105) INTE847-105 12.1.105.0 - = 12.1.105.255 INTEGRATED SYSTEMS CONTROL INC (NETBLK-INTE703-110) INTE703-110 12.0.110.0 - = 12.0.110.255 INTEGRATED SYSTEMS CONTROL INC (NETBLK-INTE703-127) INTE703-127 12.0.127.0 - = 12.0.127.255 ITS (NETBLK-ITS-1716) ITS-1716 12.6.17.16 - = 12.6.17.31 Icon LLC (NETBLK-ICONLLC-830) ICONLLC-830 12.10.83.0 - = 12.10.83.255 Infotrap Inc (NETBLK-INFOTRAP-170) INFOTRAP-170 12.6.17.0 - = 12.6.17.15 Innovative Network Solution (NETBLK-INNOVATIVE-1620) INNOVATIVE-1620 12.6.162.0 - = 12.6.162.255 Institute for International Research (NETBLK-INSTITINTREASEA-890) = INSTITINTREASEA-890 12.3.89.0 - = 12.3.89.127 Instromedix (NETBLK-INSTROMEDIX-340) INSTROMEDIX-340 12.7.34.0 - = 12.7.34.255 Interactive Holdings (NETBLK-INTERACTIVE-5032) INTERACTIVE-5032 12.3.50.32 - = 12.3.50.47 International Color Service (NETBLK-INTERCOLOR-13164) INTERCOLOR-13164 12.9.131.64 - = 12.9.131.127 International Marine Products (NETBLK-IMP415-77) IMP415-77 12.9.77.0 - = 12.9.77.255 International Nutrition (NETBLK-INTE402-116) INTE402-116 12.5.116.0 - = 12.5.116.255 J.J. Plank Corporation (NETBLK-JJPLANK-10) JJPLANK-10 12.2.1.0 - = 12.2.1.15 JC Whitney (NETBLK-WHITNEY-19160) WHITNEY-19160 12.2.19.160 - = 12.2.19.191 JDS Industries (NETBLK-JDS-85) JDS-85 12.1.85.0 - = 12.1.85.255 Ken Bratney (NETBLK-KENB714-98) KENB714-98 12.9.98.0 - = 12.9.98.255 Kids Unlimited (NETBLK-CYBERPLAYONLINE-1320) CYBERPLAYONLINE-1320 12.7.132.0 - = 12.7.132.127 KidsMart (NETBLK-KIDS818-96) KIDS818-96 12.9.96.0 - = 12.9.96.255 L&W Communications (NETBLK-LWC-660) LWC-660 12.6.66.0 - = 12.6.66.255 LLOYD'S Registrar Insurance (NETBLK-LLOY713-101) LLOY713-101 12.5.101.0 - = 12.5.101.255 La CIE LTD (NETBLK-LACIE-35128) LACIE-35128 12.7.35.128 - = 12.7.35.143 Lamb-Grays Harbor, Inc. (NETBLK-LAMB360-99) LAMB360-99 12.9.99.0 - = 12.9.99.255 Lansing Grain (NETBLK-LANS517-95) LANS517-95 12.1.95.0 - = 12.1.95.255 Lepus Group RRC (NETBLK-LEPUS-650) LEPUS-650 12.3.65.0 - = 12.3.65.255 Litton Electron Devices (NETBLK-1219-104) 1219-104 12.0.104.0 - = 12.0.104.255 Litton Electron Devices (NETBLK-LITT415-110) LITT415-110 12.9.110.0 - = 12.9.110.255 Loomis, fargo & Company (NETBLK-LFCOMP-119) LFCOMP-119 12.5.119.0 - = 12.5.119.255 Lycoming College (NETBLK-LYCOMINGCOLLEGE-1340) LYCOMINGCOLLEGE-1340 12.4.134.0 - = 12.4.135.255 MARKET DATA CORPORATION (NETBLK-MARKET-DATA-121) MARKET-DATA-121 12.0.121.0 - = 12.0.121.255 Madison Securities (NETBLK-MADISON-19192) MADISON-19192 12.2.19.192 - = 12.2.19.255 Magic Software (NETBLK-ICS-125) ICS-125 12.9.125.0 - = 12.9.125.255 Malco Products (NETBLK-MALC217-115) MALC217-115 12.1.115.0 - = 12.1.115.255 Malden Mills (NETBLK-MALDENMILLS-19648) MALDENMILLS-19648 12.6.196.48 - = 12.6.196.63 Masterpiece Medical (NETBLK-MASTERPIECE-1760) MASTERPIECE-1760 12.2.176.0 - = 12.2.176.255 McCulloch Corp (NETBLK-MCCULLOCH-1300) MCCULLOCH-130012.9.130.0 - = 12.9.130.255 McFaul & Lyons (NETBLK-MCFA609-98) MCFA609-98 12.1.98.0 - = 12.1.98.255 McGill, Gotsdiner, Workman, and Lepp, P.C. (NETBLK-MGWL402-117) MGWL402-117= 12.5.117.0 - = 12.5.117.255 McGladry & Pullen (NETBLK-1-114)1-114 12.0.114.0 - = 12.0.114.255 McGladry & Pullen (NETBLK-MCGL319-76) MCGL319-76 12.1.76.0 - = 12.1.76.255 Med-Tec, Inc. (NETBLK-MEDTEC-170) MEDTEC-170 12.10.17.0 - = 12.10.17.63 Medline Industries Inc (NETBLK-ICS-80) ICS-80 12.1.80.0 - = 12.1.80.255 Merrill Lynch (SI) (NETBLK-MERRILLSI-800) MERRILLSI-80012.3.80.0 - = 12.3.83.255 Methode Electronics Inc (NETBLK-METHODE-850) METHODE-850 12.3.85.0 - = 12.3.85.255 Methode Electronics Inc (NETBLK-METHODE-860) METHODE-860 12.3.86.0 - = 12.3.87.255 Metro Power (NETBLK-METROPOWER-87) METROPOWER-87 12.1.87.0 - = 12.1.87.255 Microsystems of Buckhannon (NETBLK-MSYS-2240) MSYS-2240 12.4.224.0 - = 12.4.224.255 Microsystems of Buckhannon (NETBLK-MSYS-2250) MSYS-2250 12.4.225.0 - = 12.4.225.255 Mid States Consultants (NETBLK-MIDSTATE-1300) MIDSTATE-1300 12.10.130.0 - = 12.10.130.63 Morgan Products (NETBLK-MORGANPRODUCTS-1360) MORGANPRODUCTS-1360 12.4.136.0 - = 12.4.136.255 NCFC/ACDI, VOCA (NETBLK-NCFC-190) NCFC-190 12.4.19.0 - = 12.4.19.255 NOVELL INC (NETBLK-NOVE801-99) NOVE801-99 12.0.99.0 - = 12.0.99.255 Nashbar (NETBLK-NASHBAR-1770) NASHBAR-1770 12.4.177.0 - = 12.4.177.127 National Grange Mutual Ins (NETBLK-NATIONALGRANGE-22464) NATIONALGRANGE-224= 64 12.6.224.64 - = 12.6.224.127 National Parts Depot (NETBLK-NATPARTS-2240) NATPARTS-2240 12.3.224.0 - = 12.3.224.63 Neilson Elggren Durkin & Co. (NETBLK-NED-130128) NED-130128 12.10.130.128 - 12.10.130.= 191 Network Integrity (NETBLK-NETINT-2060) NETINT-2060 12.6.206.0 - = 12.6.206.255 New Horizons Computer Learning Center (NETBLK-NHROIZONS-1950) NHROIZONS-195= 0 12.6.195.0 - = 12.6.195.255 New South Electric (NETBLK-NEWSOUTHELEC-100) NEWSOUTHELEC-100 12.6.10.0 - = 12.6.10.31 Nexus (NETBLK-NEXUS-1340) NEXUS-1340 12.3.134.0 - = 12.3.135.255 North AMerican Products (NETBLK-NORTHAMERICAN-88) NORTHAMERICAN-88 12.1.88.0 - = 12.1.88.255 North Alabama Cellular, LLC (NETBLK-NORTHALABAMA-1120) NORTHALABAMA-1120 12.6.112.0 - = 12.6.112.255 North American Products (NETBLK-NORTHAMERICAN-112) NORTHAMERICAN-112 12.5.112.0 - = 12.5.112.255 Northern Indiana Public Service Co. (NETBLK-NIPSCO-190) NIPSCO-190 12.2.19.0 - = 12.2.19.127 Novell GroupWise (NETBLK-NOVELLGROUPWIS-108) NOVELLGROUPWIS-108 12.5.108.0 - = 12.5.108.255 OAO CORPORATION (NETBLK-OAOC301-111) OAOC301-111 12.0.111.0 - = 12.0.111.255 OSG Tap & Die, Inc. (NETBLK-CIN1187-121) CIN1187-121 12.1.121.0 - = 12.1.121.255 Opta Food Integredients, Inc. (NETBLK-OPTA-FOOD-20764) OPTA-FOOD-20764 12.6.207.64 - = 12.6.207.127 Overlake Mortgage Co. (NETBLK-OVERL303-87) OVERL303-87 12.9.87.0 - = 12.9.87.255 Ovid Technologies (NETBLK-OVID810-75) OVID810-75 12.9.75.0 - = 12.9.75.255 PHAMIS INC (NETBLK-PHAM206-126) PHAM206-126 12.9.126.0 - = 12.9.126.255 PICOM (NETBLK-PICO517-116) PICO517-116 12.1.116.0 - = 12.1.116.255 PIER1 (NETBLK-PIER817-103) PIER817-103 12.5.103.0 - = 12.5.103.255 PKF- Mark III (NETBLK-PKFMARK-2080) PKFMARK-2080 12.3.208.0 - = 12.3.208.63 PLANTE & MORAN (NETBLK-PLAN810-122) PLAN810-122 12.1.122.0 - = 12.1.122.255 PRESTIGE GUNITE INC (NETBLK-PRESTIGEGUNITE-111) PRESTIGEGUNITE-111 12.8.111.0 - = 12.8.111.255 Pacer International (NETBLK-PACERINTERNATIO-1640) PACERINTERNATIO-1640 12.8.164.0 - = 12.8.164.255 Patti Roscoe & Associates (NETBLK-PRA-121) PRA-121 12.9.121.0 - = 12.9.121.255 Pettit & Company (NETBLK-PETTIT-1310) PETTIT-1310 12.5.131.0 - = 12.5.131.255 Plastipak Packaging Inc. (NETBLK-PLAS313-96) PLAS313-9612.1.96.0 - = 12.1.96.255 Plastipak Packaging Inc. (NETBLK-PLAS214-96) PLAS214-9612.5.96.0 - = 12.5.96.255 Prepco/3 Media (NETBLK-PREPCO-145128) PREPCO-14512812.9.145.128 - = 12.9.145.255 Primex Insurance (NETBLK-PRIMEX-350) PRIMEX-350 12.7.35.0 - = 12.7.35.127 Procyon Group (NETBLK-PROCYON-2270) PROCYON-2270 12.9.227.0 - = 12.9.227.255 Quaker State Oil Co. (NETBLK-QUAK214-97) QUAK214-97 12.5.97.0 - = 12.5.97.255 QualChoice (NETBLK-QUALCHOICE-650) QUALCHOICE-650 12.10.65.0 - = 12.10.65.255 RJ O'Brien & Associates (NETBLK-RJOBRIEN-230) RJOBRIEN-230 12.2.23.0 - = 12.2.23.127 Raytheon Aircraft Corp (NETBLK-RAYTHEON-1760) RAYTHEON-1760 12.5.176.0 - = 12.5.176.31 Redman Building Products, Inc. (NETBLK-REDM214-105) REDM214-105 12.5.105.0 - = 12.5.105.255 Reliance Steel & Aluminum (NETBLK-RELIANCE-1450) RELIANCE-1450 12.9.145.0 - = 12.9.145.63 RewardsPlus of America (NETBLK-REWA410-108) REWA410-108 12.0.108.0 - = 12.0.108.255 Rexel Inc (NETBLK-REXEL-1760) REXEL-1760 12.6.176.0 - = 12.6.176.255 Rhoads and Sinons (NETBLK-SINONS-1290) SINONS-1290 12.4.129.0 - = 12.4.129.127 Rodgers Builders (NETBLK-RODGERS-20) RODGERS-20 12.6.2.0 - = 12.6.2.255 Rogal America (NETBLK-ROGAL-196128) ROGAL-196128 12.6.196.128 - = 12.6.196.255 S.D. WARREN COMPANY (NETBLK-SDWARRENCOM-117) SDWARRENCOM-117 12.0.117.0 - = 12.0.117.255 Santo Tours Inc. (NETBLK-SANT716-105) SANT716-105 12.0.105.0 - = 12.0.105.255 Sathers (NETBLK-SATHERS-90) SATHERS-90 12.1.90.0 - = 12.1.90.255 Saturn Engineering (NETBLK-BRHMMIBD-1440) BRHMMIBD-1440 12.2.144.0 - = 12.2.144.15 Scapa Group Inc (NETBLK-SCAP919-113) SCAP919-113 12.0.113.0 - = 12.0.113.255 Signature Foods, Inc. (NETBLK-SIGN402-113) SIGN402-113 12.5.113.0 - = 12.5.113.255 Silvon Software, Inc. (NETBLK-SILV630-107) SILV630-107 12.1.107.0 - = 12.1.107.255 Sirius systems inc (NETBLK-SIRIUSSYSTEMS-108) SIRIUSSYSTEMS-108 12.8.108.0 - = 12.8.108.255 Smeal Enterprises (NETBLK-SMEAL-1380) SMEAL-1380 12.4.138.0 - = 12.4.140.255 Southdown Inc. (NETBLK-SOUTHDOWN-1950) SOUTHDOWN-195012.5.195.0 - = 12.5.195.127 Southwest Airlines Co. (NETBLK-SWAIR-1320) SWAIR-1320 12.5.132.0 - = 12.5.132.15 Specialized Insurance (NETBLK-SPECIALIZED-84) SPECIALIZED-84 12.1.84.0 - = 12.1.84.255 St. Mary Land & Exploration Co. (NETBLK-STMARY-2270) STMARY-2270 12.10.227.0 - 12.10.227.= 255 St. Meinrad Archabbey Inc (NETBLK-MEIN812-103) MEIN812-103 12.1.103.0 - = 12.1.103.255 Stens Corp (NETBLK-STENS812-106)STENS812-106 12.1.106.0 - = 12.1.106.255 Stevedoring Services of America (NETBLK-STEV206-114) STEV206-114 12.9.114.0 - = 12.9.114.255 SunGard Financial Systems (NETBLK-SUNGARD-510) SUNGARD-510 12.2.51.0 - = 12.2.51.255 Systi-Matic (NETBLK-ICS-112) ICS-112 12.9.112.0 - = 12.9.112.255 THOMAS D MANGELSEN INC (NETBLK-IMAG402-109) IMAG402-109 12.5.109.0 - = 12.5.109.255 TRINITY INDUSTRIES (NETBLK-TRIN214-122) TRIN214-122 12.5.122.0 - = 12.5.122.255 TUV Rheinland of N.A., Inc. (NETBLK-CIN12132-111) CIN12132-111 12.9.111.0 - = 12.9.111.255 TUV Rheinland of N.A., Inc. (NETBLK-CIN1-2131-107) CIN1-2131-107 12.0.107.0 - = 12.0.107.255 Taylor Woodrow Home (NETBLK-TAYL714-76) TAYL714-76 12.9.76.0 - = 12.9.76.255 Tekonsha Engine Company (NETBLK-TEKO501-111) TEKO501-111 12.5.111.0 - = 12.5.111.255 Tekonsha Engineering Company (NETBLK-ICS-92) ICS-92 12.1.92.0 - = 12.1.92.255 Tekonsha Engineering Company (NETBLK-TEKO517-125) TEKO517-125 12.1.125.0 - = 12.1.125.255 Telecommunications Research Associates (NETBLK-TRA-20) TRA-20 12.10.2.0 - = 12.10.2.255 The 401 (k) Company (NETBLK-401K-1450) 401K-1450 12.5.145.0 - = 12.5.145.127 The AD Council (NETBLK-THEA212-125) THEA212-125 12.0.125.0 - = 12.0.125.255 The Consortium (NETBLK-CONSORTIUM-5016) CONSORTIUM-501612.3.50.16 - = 12.3.50.31 The Midland companies (NETBLK-MIDL901-100) MIDL901-100 12.5.100.0 - = 12.5.100.255 The Millers Group (NETBLK-MILL817-98) MILL817-98 12.5.98.0 - = 12.5.98.255 The Ovid Bell Press (NETBLK-OVIDBELL-1150) OVIDBELL-1150 12.10.115.0 - = 12.10.115.63 The Ovid Bell Press (NETBLK-OVIDBELL-11564) OVIDBELL-11564 12.10.115.64 - 12.10.115.= 127 The Taylor Group (NETBLK-TAYLORGROUP-1770) TAYLORGROUP-1770 12.6.177.0 - = 12.6.177.255 The William Carter Co (NETBLK-WILLIAMCARTER-1480) WILLIAMCARTER-1480 12.6.148.0 - = 12.6.149.255 Thomas McGee (NETBLK-THOMASMCGEE-100) THOMASMCGEE-100 12.10.10.0 - = 12.10.10.63 Tire Rack (NETBLK-TIRE219-68) TIRE219-68 12.1.68.0 - = 12.1.68.255 Trace Optical/Nobler Technology (NETBLK-TRACE-19664) TRACE-19664 12.6.196.64 - = 12.6.196.127 Transport Corporation of America, Inc (NETBLK-TRANSPORT-100128) TRANSPORT-1= 00128 12.2.100.128 - = 12.2.100.159 Transworld Mortgage Corp (NETBLK-TWORLD-1940) TWORLD-1940 12.5.194.0 - = 12.5.194.15 Transylvania (NETBLK-TRANSY-340)TRANSY-340 12.6.34.0 - = 12.6.35.255 U. S. Robotics Communications Corp. (NETBLK-MHZ-13064) MHZ-13064 12.10.130.64 - = 12.10.130.95 UNICCO SERVICE COMPANY (NETBLK-UNIC617-109) UNIC617-109 12.0.109.0 - = 12.0.109.255 US Intec, Inc (NETBLK-USIN409-125) USIN409-125 12.5.125.0 - = 12.5.125.255 US Servis (NETBLK-USSERVIS-1630)USSERVIS-1630 12.3.163.0 - = 12.3.163.15 Uniband (NETBLK-ICS-82) ICS-82 12.1.82.0 - = 12.1.82.255 Uniband (NETBLK-ICS-72) ICS-72 12.1.72.0 - = 12.1.72.255 Uniforms to You (NETBLK-UNIFORMS-119) UNIFORMS-119 12.1.119.0 - = 12.1.119.255 Uroligix (NETBLK-UROL612-114) UROL612-114 12.1.114.0 - = 12.1.114.255 W.J. Schafer (NETBLK-WJSCHAFER-2070) WJSCHAFER-2070 12.6.207.0 - = 12.6.207.15 Wacker Silicones (NETBLK-WACKER-1280) WACKER-1280 12.2.128.0 - = 12.2.128.255 Waltrip & Associates (NETBLK-WALTRIP-1920) WALTRIP-1920 12.7.192.0 - = 12.7.192.255 Wilson Learning Corp. (NETBLK-WILSON-490) WILSON-490 12.2.49.0 - = 12.2.49.255 Woods Industries (NETBLK-1-124) 1-124 12.1.124.0 - = 12.1.124.255 World Learning Inc. (NETBLK-NEWYORK-112) NEWYORK-112 12.0.112.0 - = 12.0.112.255 X-Treme Net (NETBLK-XTREME-1600)XTREME-1600 12.4.160.0 - = 12.4.160.255 Yamato Systems, USA, Inc. (NETBLK-YAMATOUSA-224128) YAMATOUSA-224128 12.9.224.128 - = 12.9.224.255 York International corp (NETBLK-YORK717-67) YORK717-67 12.0.67.0 - = 12.0.67.255 Zitel Corp. (NETBLK-ZITEL-1300) ZITEL-1300 12.7.130.0 - = 12.7.130.15 compunet supportsystems inc (NETBLK-CSSI214-104) CSSI214-104 12.5.104.0 - = 12.5.104.255 cooper industries (NETBLK-COOP713-127) COOP713-127 12.5.127.0 - = 12.5.127.255 s.s.white burs inc (NETBLK-SSWH630-93) SSWH630-93 12.1.93.0 - = 12.1.93.255 To single out one record, look it up with "!xxx", where xxx is the handle, shown in parenthesis following the name, which comes first. The ARIN Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet Network Information: Networks, ASN's, and related POC's. Please use the whois server at rs.internic.net for DOMAIN related Information and nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D --=_491D1098.20412D4C-- --=_491D1098.27462A4B-- From - Tue May 19 16:37:37 1998 Message-Id: <000019E9@ntiahq3.ntia.doc.gov> Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 16:23:41 -0400 From: "Karen Rose" To: Herschel Gelman Subject: RE: Who owns 12.0.0.0 ? AT&T or ARIN ? -Forwarded -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_491D1098.21402C4D" This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to properly handle MIME multipart messages. --=_491D1098.21402C4D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline -K --=_491D1098.21402C4D Content-Type: message/rfc822 Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 16:13:51 -0400 From: "Becky Burr" To: Karen Rose Subject: RE: Who owns 12.0.0.0 ? AT&T or ARIN ? -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_491D1098.22432F4E" --=_491D1098.22432F4E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline --=_491D1098.22432F4E Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from pc-pjnesser.nesser.com (ns [206.129.134.238]) by ns.Nesser.COM (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA06708; Thu, 14 May 1998 10:04:21 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: From: "Philip J. Nesser II" To: "Jim Fleming" , , "'ARIN list'" Cc: "'Antitrust List'" , , , Subject: RE: Who owns 12.0.0.0 ? AT&T or ARIN ? Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 09:50:48 -0700 Message-ID: <002001bd7f58$720dd280$b00a0180@pc-pjnesser.nesser.com> X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <01BD7F14.B3AA5540@webster.unir.net> X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 (I know I shouldn't, but I can't resist replying to this.) AT&T has been assigned 12/8 for many years. Just like the other 40 or 50 organizations that have old Class A addresses. AT&T is not doing anything more than any other ISP who has a block of addresses. They are allocating it to their customers and SWIP'ing it in the WHOIS database. And no the customers don't pay anything to ARIN becuase they are getting their addresses from their upstream, just like 99% of the sites on the net. ARIN has stated several times that they only allocate from the /8s assigned to them by the IANA. Search the archives for the exact list. And yes ARIN does provide whois service for all of the IPv4 space not served by the DOD, RIPE and APNIC, and I think that most people believe this is a worthwile and expected service. Not only to they do it for AT&T, they do it for ALL ISP's, fancy that... I know that Jim is good at posting the same thing over and over with slight changes so I will try and circumnavigate it. If you go and look at all of the old class A's you will find other ISP's who have been allocated space there and amazingly enough they allocate it to their customers! So before you start posting the conspiracy theories please remember this is not news, its history. Phil P.S. Since I know that the usual response from Jim when faced with the simple truth is to ask a series of questions to try and discredit the person pointing it out... I do NOT work for the DOD/DARPA/NSF/ARPA/NSA/CIA/ETC, nor do I get any grant money from the government, nor do I work for ARIN, nor have I ever received any payment directly or indirectly from any of the I* organizations (IETF, IANA, ISOC, IAB, IESG, ARIN, APNIC, RIPE, ETC) I am sure that Jim will come up with some other questions, but what the heck. =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-naipr@arin.net [mailto:owner-naipr@arin.net]On Behalf Of Jim > Fleming > Sent: Thursday, May 14, 1998 6:46 AM > To: 'arin-council@arin.net'; 'ARIN list' > Cc: 'Antitrust List'; 'antitrust@usdoj.gov'; 'BBURR@ntia.doc.gov'; > 'Ira Magaziner' > Subject: Who owns 12.0.0.0 ? AT&T or ARIN ? >=20 >=20 >=20 > According to the following, AT&T is now allocating IPv4 addresses > in the 12.0.0.0 range and companies are advertising them on other > networks. >=20 > http://www.merit.edu/mail.archives/html/nanog/msg02336.html >=20 > As shown below[1] apparently ARIN maintains the ownership records > of these blocks. >=20 > Do these companies have to pay ARIN for these blocks ? > If not, how does ARIN recover the cost of maintaining AT&T's > records ? Are those costs taxed to ARIN members and companies > that get addresses directly from ARIN ? >=20 > Why would a company pay ARIN if they can go to AT&T to obtain > address space ? >=20 > Why does AT&T have a /8 to allocate in this manner ? > How do other companies get /8s ? >=20 > Jim Fleming >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D > [1] $ whois -h whois.arin.net 12.0.0.0 > Aborting search 256 records found ..... > 360 Group (NETBLK-360GROUP-1864)360GROUP-1864 12.7.18.64 -=20 > 12.7.18.127 > AFL/ Air Line Pilots Association (NETBLK-AIRLINEPILOTS-640)=20 > AIRLINEPILOTS-640 > 12.4.64.0 -=20 > 12.4.64.255 > AFL/CIO American Postal Workers Union (NETBLK-APWU-2016) APWU-2016 > 12.4.20.16 -=20 > 12.4.20.31 > AFL/CIO Union Privilege (NETBLK-AFLUNION-2064) AFLUNION-2064 > 12.4.20.64 -=20 > 12.4.20.127 > ARUP (NETBLK-ARUP-1320) ARUP-1320 =20 > 12.10.132.0 - 12.10.133.255 > AST Travel (NETBLK-ICS-127) ICS-127 12.9.127.0 -=20 > 12.9.127.255 > Aliant Air Cargo (NETBLK-ALIANT-224128) ALIANT-224128 > 12.7.224.128 -=20 > 12.7.224.191 > Ambassador Travel Conference Planners (NETBLK-CPLAN-2240) CPLAN-2240 > 12.7.224.0 -=20 > 12.7.224.127 > American Buildings Co (NETBLK-ICS-109) ICS-109 =20 > 12.8.109.0 - 12.8.109.255 > Americold Corporation (NETBLK-AMER503-80) AMER503-80 12.9.80.0=20 > - 12.9.80.255 > Anomatic Corp (NETBLK-ANOMATIC-2400) ANOMATIC-2400 12.2.240.0=20 > - 12.2.240.63 > Applied MicroSystems (NETBLK-APPLIEDMICRO-6696) APPLIEDMICRO-6696 > 12.7.66.96 -=20 > 12.7.66.111 > Aquidneck Management Assoc. (NETBLK-AMALTD-1990) AMALTD-1990 > 12.6.199.0 -=20 > 12.6.199.255 > Aquidneck Management Assoc. (NETBLK-AMALTD-2040) AMALTD-2040 > 12.6.204.0 -=20 > 12.6.205.255 > Ashton Wholesale (NETBLK-ASHT402-115) ASHT402-115 12.5.115.0 -=20 > 12.5.115.255 > Aurora BioSciences (NETBLK-AURORABIO-1780) AURORABIO-1780 > 12.9.178.0 -=20 > 12.9.178.255 > Baker & McKenzie (NETBLK-BAKERWEB-200) BAKERWEB-200 12.2.20.0=20 > - 12.2.20.255 > Baldwin & Lyons, Inc. (NETBLK-BALDWINLYONS-33128) BALDWINLYONS-33128 > 12.2.33.128 -=20 > 12.2.33.143 > Barnes Wholesale (NETBLK-BARN310-84) BARN310-84 =20 > 12.9.84.0 - 12.9.84.255 > Bayside Controls (NETBLK-BAYSIDE-1330) BAYSIDE-1330 12.3.133.0 -=20 > 12.3.133.255 > Berkshire Life Insurance Company (NETBLK-BERK6171-124) BERK6171-124 > 12.5.124.0 -=20 > 12.5.124.255 > Biosound (NETBLK-1-123) 1-123 =20 > 12.1.123.0 - 12.1.123.255 > Biznexus (NETBLK-BIZNEXUS-1450) BIZNEXUS-1450 =20 > 12.4.145.0 - 12.4.145.255 > Brantley Telephone Company (NETBLK-BRANTLEYTEL-1300) BRANTLEYTEL-1300 > 12.8.130.0 -=20 > 12.8.130.127 > Burns Philp Food North America (NETBLK-ICS-124) ICS-124 > 12.9.124.0 -=20 > 12.9.124.255 > Business Records Corp. (NETBLK-BRC214-99) BRC214-99 12.5.99.0=20 > - 12.5.99.255 > CGH Insurance (NETBLK-CGH-123) CGH-123 =20 > 12.0.123.0 - 12.0.123.255 > COLUMBIA NATIONAL INC (NETBLK-COLU410-100) COLU410-100 > 12.0.100.0 -=20 > 12.0.100.255 > CST Office Products, Inc. (NETBLK-CSTO847-99) CSTO847-99 > 12.1.99.0 -=20 > 12.1.99.255 > Centeon (NETBLK-CENTEON-340) CENTEON-340 12.3.34.0 -=20 > 12.3.34.31 > Chadbourne and Parke LLC (NETBLK-CHAD212-78) CHAD212-7812.0.78.0=20 > - 12.0.78.255 > Clarke, Lanzen and Skalla Investment Firm (NETBLK-CLSI402-97) CLSI402-97 > 12.1.97.0 -=20 > 12.1.97.255 > Clayco Construction Co. (NETBLK-CLAYCO-1160) CLAYCO-1160 > 12.10.116.0 -=20 > 12.10.116.255 > Clifton Gunderson L. L. C. (NETBLK-CIN1245-79) CIN1245-79 > 12.1.79.0 -=20 > 12.1.79.255 > College Foundation (NETBLK-COLLEGEFOUND-30) COLLEGEFOUND-30 > 12.4.3.0 -=20 > 12.4.3.255 > Coltrin & Associates (NETBLK-COLTRIN-50128) COLTRIN-50128 > 12.3.50.128 -=20 > 12.3.50.255 > Columbia Daily Tribune (NETBLK-TRIBNET-1120) TRIBNET-1120 > 12.10.112.0 -=20 > 12.10.114.255 > Columbia Management (NETBLK-COLUMBIA-330) COLUMBIA-330 12.7.33.0=20 > - 12.7.33.255 > Commercial Wire Rope and Supply Co. (NETBLK-CIN1235-78) CIN1235-78 > 12.1.78.0 -=20 > 12.1.78.255 > Computing Ability Inc (NETBLK-ICS-116) ICS-116 =20 > 12.0.116.0 - 12.0.116.255 > Computype (NETBLK-COMPUTYPE-520)COMPUTYPE-520 12.2.52.0 -=20 > 12.2.52.255 > Consol Inc. (NETBLK-CONSOL-2260)CONSOL-2260 12.4.226.0 -=20 > 12.4.226.31 > Consolidated Stores (NETBLK-CONSOLIDATED-91) CONSOLIDATED-91 > 12.1.91.0 -=20 > 12.1.91.255 > Conterm (NETBLK-CONTERM-2250) CONTERM-2250 12.9.225.0 -=20 > 12.9.225.255 > Continental Ozark (NETBLK-OZAR501-123) OZAR501-123 12.5.123.0 -=20 > 12.5.123.255 > Copart (NETBLK-COPART-13016) COPART-13016 12.7.130.16 -=20 > 12.7.130.31 > Core West Banc (NETBLK-CORE310-88) CORE310-88 12.9.88.0 -=20 > 12.9.88.255 > Costco Wholesale (NETBLK-COSTCO-66128) COSTCO-66128 12.7.66.128=20 > - 12.7.66.191 > CourterCo (NETBLK-COUR317-126) COUR317-126 =20 > 12.1.126.0 - 12.1.126.255 > Crawford Fitting Company (NETBLK-CFC216-64) CFC216-64 12.1.64.0=20 > - 12.1.64.255 > DF Young, Inc. (NETBLK-DFYOUNG-880) DFYOUNG-880 =20 > 12.3.88.0 - 12.3.88.127 > Dairy Management (NETBLK-1-115) 1-115 =20 > 12.0.115.0 - 12.0.115.255 > Dairy Management- Columbus (NETBLK-DAIR614-66) DAIR614-66 > 12.1.66.0 -=20 > 12.1.66.255 > Datalink (NETBLK-DATALINK-500) DATALINK-500 =09 > 12.2.50.0 - 12.2.50.15 > Defense Research Institute (NETBLK-DEFE312-120) DEFE312-120 > 12.1.120.0 -=20 > 12.1.120.255 > Delta Apparel Company (NETBLK-DELTAAPPAREL-14716) DELTAAPPAREL-14716 > 12.6.147.16 -=20 > 12.6.147.31 > Delta Consulting (NETBLK-DELTACON-520) DELTACON-520 12.3.52.0=20 > - 12.3.52.255 > Den America Corporation (NETBLK-DENAMERICA-1320) DENAMERICA-1320 > 12.9.132.0 -=20 > 12.9.132.255 > Devise Associates (NETBLK-DEVI212-126) DEVI212-126 12.0.126.0 -=20 > 12.0.126.255 > Donna Karan NY (NETBLK-DONN212-75) DONN212-75 12.0.75.0 -=20 > 12.0.75.255 > Duferco Steel (NETBLK-DUFERCO-163128) DUFERCO-163128 > 12.3.163.128 -=20 > 12.3.163.255 > EH Brown Advertising (NETBLK-EHBR312-117) EHBR312-11712.1.117.0 -=20 > 12.1.117.255 > ERNI Components, Inc. (NETBLK-CIN503-123) CIN503-123 12.9.123.0 -=20 > 12.9.123.255 > ERNI Components, Inc. (NETBLK-CIN1252-119) CIN1252-119 > 12.0.119.0 -=20 > 12.0.119.255 > Earthwatch (NETBLK-EARTHWATCH1-1310) EARTHWATCH1-131012.7.131.0 -=20 > 12.7.131.255 > Earthwatch Inc (NETBLK-EARTHWATCH-2260) EARTHWATCH-2260 > 12.10.226.0 -=20 > 12.10.226.255 > Edwin B. Stimpson (NETBLK-STIMPSON-1320) STIMPSON-132012.3.132.0=20 > - 12.3.132.63 > Eltech (NETBLK-ELTE216-69) ELTE216-69 12.1.69.0 -=20 > 12.1.69.255 > Emeritus Corporation (NETBLK-EMERITUS-670) EMERITUS-67012.7.67.0=20 > - 12.7.67.255 > Epoxy Technology (NETBLK-EPOXY-1960) EPOXY-1960 =20 > 12.6.196.0 - 12.6.196.31 > Erico, Inc. (NETBLK-ERIC216-70) ERIC216-70 =20 > 12.1.70.0 - 12.1.70.255 > FEL PRO CORPORATION (NETBLK-FELP847-81) FELP847-81 =20 > 12.1.81.0 - 12.1.81.255 > Fidelity National Title (NETBLK-FIDE212-73) FIDE212-73 12.0.73.0=20 > - 12.0.73.255 > Flagstar- Dallas (NETBLK-FLAG214-121) FLAG214-121 12.5.121.0 -=20 > 12.5.121.255 > Flagstar- LA (NETBLK-FLAG602-82)FLAG602-82 12.9.82.0 -=20 > 12.9.82.255 > Flexcon Company Inc (NETBLK-FLEX508-124) FLEX508-124 12.0.124.0 -=20 > 12.0.124.255 > Florsheim Group (NETBLK-FLORSHEIM-220) FLORSHEIM-220 12.2.22.0=20 > - 12.2.22.255 > Forstmann (NETBLK-FORSTMANN-1470) FORSTMANN-1470 12.6.147.0=20 > - 12.6.147.15 > GUARDIAN INDUSTRIED CORPORATION (NETBLK-GUARDIAN-120) GUARDIAN-120 > 12.0.120.0 -=20 > 12.0.120.255 > Georgson & Co (NETBLK-GEOR212-80) GEOR212-80 12.0.80.0 -=20 > 12.0.80.255 > GodFrey & Kahn, S.C. (NETBLK-GODFREY-109) GODFREY-10912.1.109.0 -=20 > 12.1.109.255 > Golden Eagle Network (NETBLK-GEN-122) GEN-122 12.0.122.0 -=20 > 12.0.122.255 > Goodyear Tire and Rubber (NETBLK-GOODYEAR-86) GOODYEAR-86 > 12.1.86.0 -=20 > 12.1.86.255 > Great Lakes Gas Transmission (NETBLK-GREAT-LAKES-1920) GREAT-LAKES-1920 > 12.2.192.0 -=20 > 12.2.192.255 > HENDRICKSON INTERNATIONAL (NETBLK-HENDRICKSON-77) HENDRICKSON-77 > 12.1.77.0 -=20 > 12.1.77.255 > HJM Consulting (NETBLK-HJMCONSLT-510) HJMCONSLT-510 12.3.51.0=20 > - 12.3.51.255 > HSB Reliability - Alexandria (NETBLK-HSBR703-106) HSBR703-106 > 12.0.106.0 -=20 > 12.0.106.255 > Hallmark Cards, Inc. (NETBLK-CIN509-107) CIN509-107 12.5.107.0 -=20 > 12.5.107.255 > Hallmark Cards, Inc. (NETBLK-HALL406-122) HALL406-12212.9.122.0 -=20 > 12.9.122.255 > Healthcare Underwriters Mutual (NETBLK-HEALTHCARE-17764) HEALTHCARE-17764 > 12.3.177.64 -=20 > 12.3.177.127 > Holiday Rambler (NETBLK-HOLI219-34) HOLI219-34 =20 > 12.1.34.0 - 12.1.34.255 > Holiday Rambler (NETBLK-HOLI219-35) HOLI219-35 =20 > 12.1.35.0 - 12.1.35.255 > Hudson's and Fields Credit U (NETBLK-HUDC461-111) HUDC461-111 > 12.1.111.0 -=20 > 12.1.111.255 > Hudson's and Fields Credit U (NETBLK-HUDS461-112) HUDS461-112 > 12.1.112.0 -=20 > 12.1.112.255 > Hytrol Conveyor (NETBLK-HYTROL-810) HYTROL-810 =20 > 12.10.81.0 - 12.10.81.63 > I-car (NETBLK-ICAR847-104) ICAR847-104 12.1.104.0 -=20 > 12.1.104.255 > ICS Customer Operations Center (NETBLK-ICSCC-102) ICSCC-102 > 12.0.102.0 -=20 > 12.0.102.255 > INET City (NETBLK-INETCITY-1460)INETCITY-1460 12.2.146.0 -=20 > 12.2.147.255 > INTEGRATED MEDICAL DELIVERY CORPORATION (NETBLK-INTE847-105) INTE847-105 > 12.1.105.0 -=20 > 12.1.105.255 > INTEGRATED SYSTEMS CONTROL INC (NETBLK-INTE703-110) INTE703-110 > 12.0.110.0 -=20 > 12.0.110.255 > INTEGRATED SYSTEMS CONTROL INC (NETBLK-INTE703-127) INTE703-127 > 12.0.127.0 -=20 > 12.0.127.255 > ITS (NETBLK-ITS-1716) ITS-1716 12.6.17.16 -=20 > 12.6.17.31 > Icon LLC (NETBLK-ICONLLC-830) ICONLLC-830 12.10.83.0 -=20 > 12.10.83.255 > Infotrap Inc (NETBLK-INFOTRAP-170) INFOTRAP-170 =09 > 12.6.17.0 - 12.6.17.15 > Innovative Network Solution (NETBLK-INNOVATIVE-1620) INNOVATIVE-1620 > 12.6.162.0 -=20 > 12.6.162.255 > Institute for International Research (NETBLK-INSTITINTREASEA-890)=20 > INSTITINTREASEA-890 > 12.3.89.0 -=20 > 12.3.89.127 > Instromedix (NETBLK-INSTROMEDIX-340) INSTROMEDIX-340 12.7.34.0=20 > - 12.7.34.255 > Interactive Holdings (NETBLK-INTERACTIVE-5032) INTERACTIVE-5032 > 12.3.50.32 -=20 > 12.3.50.47 > International Color Service (NETBLK-INTERCOLOR-13164) INTERCOLOR-13164 > 12.9.131.64 -=20 > 12.9.131.127 > International Marine Products (NETBLK-IMP415-77) IMP415-77 > 12.9.77.0 -=20 > 12.9.77.255 > International Nutrition (NETBLK-INTE402-116) INTE402-116 > 12.5.116.0 -=20 > 12.5.116.255 > J.J. Plank Corporation (NETBLK-JJPLANK-10) JJPLANK-10 12.2.1.0=20 > - 12.2.1.15 > JC Whitney (NETBLK-WHITNEY-19160) WHITNEY-19160 =20 > 12.2.19.160 - 12.2.19.191 > JDS Industries (NETBLK-JDS-85) JDS-85 =20 > 12.1.85.0 - 12.1.85.255 > Ken Bratney (NETBLK-KENB714-98) KENB714-98 =20 > 12.9.98.0 - 12.9.98.255 > Kids Unlimited (NETBLK-CYBERPLAYONLINE-1320) CYBERPLAYONLINE-1320 > 12.7.132.0 -=20 > 12.7.132.127 > KidsMart (NETBLK-KIDS818-96) KIDS818-96 12.9.96.0 -=20 > 12.9.96.255 > L&W Communications (NETBLK-LWC-660) LWC-660 12.6.66.0 -=20 > 12.6.66.255 > LLOYD'S Registrar Insurance (NETBLK-LLOY713-101) LLOY713-101 > 12.5.101.0 -=20 > 12.5.101.255 > La CIE LTD (NETBLK-LACIE-35128) LACIE-35128 =20 > 12.7.35.128 - 12.7.35.143 > Lamb-Grays Harbor, Inc. (NETBLK-LAMB360-99) LAMB360-99 12.9.99.0=20 > - 12.9.99.255 > Lansing Grain (NETBLK-LANS517-95) LANS517-95 12.1.95.0 -=20 > 12.1.95.255 > Lepus Group RRC (NETBLK-LEPUS-650) LEPUS-650 12.3.65.0 -=20 > 12.3.65.255 > Litton Electron Devices (NETBLK-1219-104) 1219-104 12.0.104.0 -=20 > 12.0.104.255 > Litton Electron Devices (NETBLK-LITT415-110) LITT415-110 > 12.9.110.0 -=20 > 12.9.110.255 > Loomis, fargo & Company (NETBLK-LFCOMP-119) LFCOMP-119 > 12.5.119.0 -=20 > 12.5.119.255 > Lycoming College (NETBLK-LYCOMINGCOLLEGE-1340) LYCOMINGCOLLEGE-1340 > 12.4.134.0 -=20 > 12.4.135.255 > MARKET DATA CORPORATION (NETBLK-MARKET-DATA-121) MARKET-DATA-121 > 12.0.121.0 -=20 > 12.0.121.255 > Madison Securities (NETBLK-MADISON-19192) MADISON-19192 > 12.2.19.192 -=20 > 12.2.19.255 > Magic Software (NETBLK-ICS-125) ICS-125 =20 > 12.9.125.0 - 12.9.125.255 > Malco Products (NETBLK-MALC217-115) MALC217-115 =20 > 12.1.115.0 - 12.1.115.255 > Malden Mills (NETBLK-MALDENMILLS-19648) MALDENMILLS-19648 > 12.6.196.48 -=20 > 12.6.196.63 > Masterpiece Medical (NETBLK-MASTERPIECE-1760) MASTERPIECE-1760 > 12.2.176.0 -=20 > 12.2.176.255 > McCulloch Corp (NETBLK-MCCULLOCH-1300) MCCULLOCH-130012.9.130.0 -=20 > 12.9.130.255 > McFaul & Lyons (NETBLK-MCFA609-98) MCFA609-98 12.1.98.0 -=20 > 12.1.98.255 > McGill, Gotsdiner, Workman, and Lepp, P.C. (NETBLK-MGWL402-117)=09 > MGWL402-117 > 12.5.117.0 -=20 > 12.5.117.255 > McGladry & Pullen (NETBLK-1-114)1-114 12.0.114.0 -=20 > 12.0.114.255 > McGladry & Pullen (NETBLK-MCGL319-76) MCGL319-76 12.1.76.0=20 > - 12.1.76.255 > Med-Tec, Inc. (NETBLK-MEDTEC-170) MEDTEC-170 12.10.17.0 -=20 > 12.10.17.63 > Medline Industries Inc (NETBLK-ICS-80) ICS-80 12.1.80.0 -=20 > 12.1.80.255 > Merrill Lynch (SI) (NETBLK-MERRILLSI-800) MERRILLSI-80012.3.80.0=20 > - 12.3.83.255 > Methode Electronics Inc (NETBLK-METHODE-850) METHODE-850 > 12.3.85.0 -=20 > 12.3.85.255 > Methode Electronics Inc (NETBLK-METHODE-860) METHODE-860 > 12.3.86.0 -=20 > 12.3.87.255 > Metro Power (NETBLK-METROPOWER-87) METROPOWER-87 12.1.87.0=20 > - 12.1.87.255 > Microsystems of Buckhannon (NETBLK-MSYS-2240) MSYS-2240 > 12.4.224.0 -=20 > 12.4.224.255 > Microsystems of Buckhannon (NETBLK-MSYS-2250) MSYS-2250 > 12.4.225.0 -=20 > 12.4.225.255 > Mid States Consultants (NETBLK-MIDSTATE-1300) MIDSTATE-1300 > 12.10.130.0 -=20 > 12.10.130.63 > Morgan Products (NETBLK-MORGANPRODUCTS-1360) MORGANPRODUCTS-1360 > 12.4.136.0 -=20 > 12.4.136.255 > NCFC/ACDI, VOCA (NETBLK-NCFC-190) NCFC-190 12.4.19.0 -=20 > 12.4.19.255 > NOVELL INC (NETBLK-NOVE801-99) NOVE801-99 =20 > 12.0.99.0 - 12.0.99.255 > Nashbar (NETBLK-NASHBAR-1770) NASHBAR-1770 12.4.177.0 -=20 > 12.4.177.127 > National Grange Mutual Ins (NETBLK-NATIONALGRANGE-22464)=20 > NATIONALGRANGE-22464 > 12.6.224.64 -=20 > 12.6.224.127 > National Parts Depot (NETBLK-NATPARTS-2240) NATPARTS-2240 > 12.3.224.0 -=20 > 12.3.224.63 > Neilson Elggren Durkin & Co. (NETBLK-NED-130128) NED-130128 > 12.10.130.128 -=20 > 12.10.130.191 > Network Integrity (NETBLK-NETINT-2060) NETINT-2060 12.6.206.0 -=20 > 12.6.206.255 > New Horizons Computer Learning Center (NETBLK-NHROIZONS-1950)=20 > NHROIZONS-1950 > 12.6.195.0 -=20 > 12.6.195.255 > New South Electric (NETBLK-NEWSOUTHELEC-100) NEWSOUTHELEC-100 > 12.6.10.0 -=20 > 12.6.10.31 > Nexus (NETBLK-NEXUS-1340) NEXUS-1340 12.3.134.0 -=20 > 12.3.135.255 > North AMerican Products (NETBLK-NORTHAMERICAN-88) NORTHAMERICAN-88 > 12.1.88.0 -=20 > 12.1.88.255 > North Alabama Cellular, LLC (NETBLK-NORTHALABAMA-1120) NORTHALABAMA-1120 > 12.6.112.0 -=20 > 12.6.112.255 > North American Products (NETBLK-NORTHAMERICAN-112) NORTHAMERICAN-112 > 12.5.112.0 -=20 > 12.5.112.255 > Northern Indiana Public Service Co. (NETBLK-NIPSCO-190) NIPSCO-190 > 12.2.19.0 -=20 > 12.2.19.127 > Novell GroupWise (NETBLK-NOVELLGROUPWIS-108) NOVELLGROUPWIS-108 > 12.5.108.0 -=20 > 12.5.108.255 > OAO CORPORATION (NETBLK-OAOC301-111) OAOC301-111 12.0.111.0 -=20 > 12.0.111.255 > OSG Tap & Die, Inc. (NETBLK-CIN1187-121) CIN1187-121 12.1.121.0 -=20 > 12.1.121.255 > Opta Food Integredients, Inc. (NETBLK-OPTA-FOOD-20764) OPTA-FOOD-20764 > 12.6.207.64 -=20 > 12.6.207.127 > Overlake Mortgage Co. (NETBLK-OVERL303-87) OVERL303-87 12.9.87.0=20 > - 12.9.87.255 > Ovid Technologies (NETBLK-OVID810-75) OVID810-75 12.9.75.0=20 > - 12.9.75.255 > PHAMIS INC (NETBLK-PHAM206-126) PHAM206-126 =20 > 12.9.126.0 - 12.9.126.255 > PICOM (NETBLK-PICO517-116) PICO517-116 12.1.116.0 -=20 > 12.1.116.255 > PIER1 (NETBLK-PIER817-103) PIER817-103 12.5.103.0 -=20 > 12.5.103.255 > PKF- Mark III (NETBLK-PKFMARK-2080) PKFMARK-2080 12.3.208.0=20 > - 12.3.208.63 > PLANTE & MORAN (NETBLK-PLAN810-122) PLAN810-122 =20 > 12.1.122.0 - 12.1.122.255 > PRESTIGE GUNITE INC (NETBLK-PRESTIGEGUNITE-111) PRESTIGEGUNITE-111 > 12.8.111.0 -=20 > 12.8.111.255 > Pacer International (NETBLK-PACERINTERNATIO-1640) PACERINTERNATIO-1640 > 12.8.164.0 -=20 > 12.8.164.255 > Patti Roscoe & Associates (NETBLK-PRA-121) PRA-121 12.9.121.0 -=20 > 12.9.121.255 > Pettit & Company (NETBLK-PETTIT-1310) PETTIT-1310 12.5.131.0 -=20 > 12.5.131.255 > Plastipak Packaging Inc. (NETBLK-PLAS313-96) PLAS313-9612.1.96.0=20 > - 12.1.96.255 > Plastipak Packaging Inc. (NETBLK-PLAS214-96) PLAS214-9612.5.96.0=20 > - 12.5.96.255 > Prepco/3 Media (NETBLK-PREPCO-145128) PREPCO-14512812.9.145.128 -=20 > 12.9.145.255 > Primex Insurance (NETBLK-PRIMEX-350) PRIMEX-350 =20 > 12.7.35.0 - 12.7.35.127 > Procyon Group (NETBLK-PROCYON-2270) PROCYON-2270 12.9.227.0 -=20 > 12.9.227.255 > Quaker State Oil Co. (NETBLK-QUAK214-97) QUAK214-97 12.5.97.0=20 > - 12.5.97.255 > QualChoice (NETBLK-QUALCHOICE-650) QUALCHOICE-650 12.10.65.0 -=20 > 12.10.65.255 > RJ O'Brien & Associates (NETBLK-RJOBRIEN-230) RJOBRIEN-230 > 12.2.23.0 -=20 > 12.2.23.127 > Raytheon Aircraft Corp (NETBLK-RAYTHEON-1760) RAYTHEON-1760 > 12.5.176.0 -=20 > 12.5.176.31 > Redman Building Products, Inc. (NETBLK-REDM214-105) REDM214-105 > 12.5.105.0 -=20 > 12.5.105.255 > Reliance Steel & Aluminum (NETBLK-RELIANCE-1450) RELIANCE-1450 > 12.9.145.0 -=20 > 12.9.145.63 > RewardsPlus of America (NETBLK-REWA410-108) REWA410-108 > 12.0.108.0 -=20 > 12.0.108.255 > Rexel Inc (NETBLK-REXEL-1760) REXEL-1760 12.6.176.0 -=20 > 12.6.176.255 > Rhoads and Sinons (NETBLK-SINONS-1290) SINONS-1290 12.4.129.0 -=20 > 12.4.129.127 > Rodgers Builders (NETBLK-RODGERS-20) RODGERS-20 =20 > 12.6.2.0 - 12.6.2.255 > Rogal America (NETBLK-ROGAL-196128) ROGAL-196128 12.6.196.128 -=20 > 12.6.196.255 > S.D. WARREN COMPANY (NETBLK-SDWARRENCOM-117) SDWARRENCOM-117 > 12.0.117.0 -=20 > 12.0.117.255 > Santo Tours Inc. (NETBLK-SANT716-105) SANT716-105 12.0.105.0 -=20 > 12.0.105.255 > Sathers (NETBLK-SATHERS-90) SATHERS-90 12.1.90.0 -=20 > 12.1.90.255 > Saturn Engineering (NETBLK-BRHMMIBD-1440) BRHMMIBD-1440 > 12.2.144.0 -=20 > 12.2.144.15 > Scapa Group Inc (NETBLK-SCAP919-113) SCAP919-113 12.0.113.0 -=20 > 12.0.113.255 > Signature Foods, Inc. (NETBLK-SIGN402-113) SIGN402-113 > 12.5.113.0 -=20 > 12.5.113.255 > Silvon Software, Inc. (NETBLK-SILV630-107) SILV630-107 > 12.1.107.0 -=20 > 12.1.107.255 > Sirius systems inc (NETBLK-SIRIUSSYSTEMS-108) SIRIUSSYSTEMS-108 > 12.8.108.0 -=20 > 12.8.108.255 > Smeal Enterprises (NETBLK-SMEAL-1380) SMEAL-1380 12.4.138.0 -=20 > 12.4.140.255 > Southdown Inc. (NETBLK-SOUTHDOWN-1950) SOUTHDOWN-195012.5.195.0 -=20 > 12.5.195.127 > Southwest Airlines Co. (NETBLK-SWAIR-1320) SWAIR-1320 12.5.132.0=20 > - 12.5.132.15 > Specialized Insurance (NETBLK-SPECIALIZED-84) SPECIALIZED-84 > 12.1.84.0 -=20 > 12.1.84.255 > St. Mary Land & Exploration Co. (NETBLK-STMARY-2270) STMARY-2270 > 12.10.227.0 -=20 > 12.10.227.255 > St. Meinrad Archabbey Inc (NETBLK-MEIN812-103) MEIN812-103 > 12.1.103.0 -=20 > 12.1.103.255 > Stens Corp (NETBLK-STENS812-106)STENS812-106 12.1.106.0 -=20 > 12.1.106.255 > Stevedoring Services of America (NETBLK-STEV206-114) STEV206-114 > 12.9.114.0 -=20 > 12.9.114.255 > SunGard Financial Systems (NETBLK-SUNGARD-510) SUNGARD-510 > 12.2.51.0 -=20 > 12.2.51.255 > Systi-Matic (NETBLK-ICS-112) ICS-112 12.9.112.0 -=20 > 12.9.112.255 > THOMAS D MANGELSEN INC (NETBLK-IMAG402-109) IMAG402-109 > 12.5.109.0 -=20 > 12.5.109.255 > TRINITY INDUSTRIES (NETBLK-TRIN214-122) TRIN214-122 =20 > 12.5.122.0 - 12.5.122.255 > TUV Rheinland of N.A., Inc. (NETBLK-CIN12132-111) CIN12132-111 > 12.9.111.0 -=20 > 12.9.111.255 > TUV Rheinland of N.A., Inc. (NETBLK-CIN1-2131-107) CIN1-2131-107 > 12.0.107.0 -=20 > 12.0.107.255 > Taylor Woodrow Home (NETBLK-TAYL714-76) TAYL714-76 =20 > 12.9.76.0 - 12.9.76.255 > Tekonsha Engine Company (NETBLK-TEKO501-111) TEKO501-111 > 12.5.111.0 -=20 > 12.5.111.255 > Tekonsha Engineering Company (NETBLK-ICS-92) ICS-92 12.1.92.0=20 > - 12.1.92.255 > Tekonsha Engineering Company (NETBLK-TEKO517-125) TEKO517-125 > 12.1.125.0 -=20 > 12.1.125.255 > Telecommunications Research Associates (NETBLK-TRA-20) TRA-20 > 12.10.2.0 -=20 > 12.10.2.255 > The 401 (k) Company (NETBLK-401K-1450) 401K-1450 12.5.145.0 -=20 > 12.5.145.127 > The AD Council (NETBLK-THEA212-125) THEA212-125 =20 > 12.0.125.0 - 12.0.125.255 > The Consortium (NETBLK-CONSORTIUM-5016)=09 > CONSORTIUM-501612.3.50.16 - 12.3.50.31 > The Midland companies (NETBLK-MIDL901-100) MIDL901-100 > 12.5.100.0 -=20 > 12.5.100.255 > The Millers Group (NETBLK-MILL817-98) MILL817-98 12.5.98.0=20 > - 12.5.98.255 > The Ovid Bell Press (NETBLK-OVIDBELL-1150) OVIDBELL-1150 > 12.10.115.0 -=20 > 12.10.115.63 > The Ovid Bell Press (NETBLK-OVIDBELL-11564) OVIDBELL-11564 > 12.10.115.64 -=20 > 12.10.115.127 > The Taylor Group (NETBLK-TAYLORGROUP-1770) TAYLORGROUP-1770 > 12.6.177.0 -=20 > 12.6.177.255 > The William Carter Co (NETBLK-WILLIAMCARTER-1480) WILLIAMCARTER-1480 > 12.6.148.0 -=20 > 12.6.149.255 > Thomas McGee (NETBLK-THOMASMCGEE-100) THOMASMCGEE-100 12.10.10.0=20 > - 12.10.10.63 > Tire Rack (NETBLK-TIRE219-68) TIRE219-68 12.1.68.0 -=20 > 12.1.68.255 > Trace Optical/Nobler Technology (NETBLK-TRACE-19664) TRACE-19664 > 12.6.196.64 -=20 > 12.6.196.127 > Transport Corporation of America, Inc (NETBLK-TRANSPORT-100128)=09 > TRANSPORT-100128 > 12.2.100.128 -=20 > 12.2.100.159 > Transworld Mortgage Corp (NETBLK-TWORLD-1940) TWORLD-1940 > 12.5.194.0 -=20 > 12.5.194.15 > Transylvania (NETBLK-TRANSY-340)TRANSY-340 12.6.34.0 -=20 > 12.6.35.255 > U. S. Robotics Communications Corp. (NETBLK-MHZ-13064) MHZ-13064 > 12.10.130.64 -=20 > 12.10.130.95 > UNICCO SERVICE COMPANY (NETBLK-UNIC617-109) UNIC617-109 > 12.0.109.0 -=20 > 12.0.109.255 > US Intec, Inc (NETBLK-USIN409-125) USIN409-125 =20 > 12.5.125.0 - 12.5.125.255 > US Servis (NETBLK-USSERVIS-1630)USSERVIS-1630 12.3.163.0 -=20 > 12.3.163.15 > Uniband (NETBLK-ICS-82) ICS-82 =20 > 12.1.82.0 - 12.1.82.255 > Uniband (NETBLK-ICS-72) ICS-72 =20 > 12.1.72.0 - 12.1.72.255 > Uniforms to You (NETBLK-UNIFORMS-119) UNIFORMS-119 12.1.119.0 -=20 > 12.1.119.255 > Uroligix (NETBLK-UROL612-114) UROL612-114 12.1.114.0 -=20 > 12.1.114.255 > W.J. Schafer (NETBLK-WJSCHAFER-2070) WJSCHAFER-2070 12.6.207.0=20 > - 12.6.207.15 > Wacker Silicones (NETBLK-WACKER-1280) WACKER-1280 12.2.128.0 -=20 > 12.2.128.255 > Waltrip & Associates (NETBLK-WALTRIP-1920) WALTRIP-1920 > 12.7.192.0 -=20 > 12.7.192.255 > Wilson Learning Corp. (NETBLK-WILSON-490) WILSON-490 12.2.49.0=20 > - 12.2.49.255 > Woods Industries (NETBLK-1-124) 1-124 =20 > 12.1.124.0 - 12.1.124.255 > World Learning Inc. (NETBLK-NEWYORK-112) NEWYORK-112 12.0.112.0 -=20 > 12.0.112.255 > X-Treme Net (NETBLK-XTREME-1600)XTREME-1600 12.4.160.0 -=20 > 12.4.160.255 > Yamato Systems, USA, Inc. (NETBLK-YAMATOUSA-224128) YAMATOUSA-224128 > 12.9.224.128 -=20 > 12.9.224.255 > York International corp (NETBLK-YORK717-67) YORK717-67 12.0.67.0=20 > - 12.0.67.255 > Zitel Corp. (NETBLK-ZITEL-1300) ZITEL-1300 =20 > 12.7.130.0 - 12.7.130.15 > compunet supportsystems inc (NETBLK-CSSI214-104) CSSI214-104 > 12.5.104.0 -=20 > 12.5.104.255 > cooper industries (NETBLK-COOP713-127) COOP713-127 12.5.127.0 -=20 > 12.5.127.255 > s.s.white burs inc (NETBLK-SSWH630-93) SSWH630-93 12.1.93.0=20 > - 12.1.93.255 >=20 > To single out one record, look it up with "!xxx", where xxx is the > handle, shown in parenthesis following the name, which comes first. >=20 > The ARIN Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet > Network Information: Networks, ASN's, and related POC's. > Please use the whois server at rs.internic.net for DOMAIN related > Information and nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information. >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D >=20 >=20 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.5.3 for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBNVsg5jW2hWRjwTVBEQLVVQCg+9k7bbpzOU/PBe53q/GeesY6++4AoMPy 56scx+yYRr50cekWClI8ZeTj =3D6+LY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=_491D1098.22432F4E-- --=_491D1098.21402C4D-- From - Tue May 19 16:37:37 1998 Message-Id: <000019EB@ntiahq3.ntia.doc.gov> Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 16:23:44 -0400 From: "Karen Rose" To: Herschel Gelman Subject: RE: Who owns 12.0.0.0 ? AT&T or ARIN ? -Forwarded -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_481C1199.23422E4F" This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to properly handle MIME multipart messages. --=_481C1199.23422E4F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline -K --=_481C1199.23422E4F Content-Type: message/rfc822 Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 16:13:52 -0400 From: "Becky Burr" To: Karen Rose Subject: RE: Who owns 12.0.0.0 ? AT&T or ARIN ? -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_481C1199.1C7D1170" --=_481C1199.1C7D1170 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline --=_481C1199.1C7D1170 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from webster.unir.net ([207.32.159.5]) by doorstep.unety.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA24090; Thu, 14 May 1998 13:07:41 -0500 Received: by webster.unir.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BD7F38.83192040@webster.unir.net>; Thu, 14 May 1998 13:02:13 -0500 Message-ID: <01BD7F38.83192040@webster.unir.net> From: Jim Fleming To: "arin-council@arin.net" , "'ARIN list'" Cc: "'Antitrust List'" , "antitrust@usdoj.gov" , "BBURR@ntia.doc.gov" , "Ira Magaziner" Subject: RE: Who owns 12.0.0.0 ? AT&T or ARIN ? Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 13:02:11 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On Thursday, May 14, 1998 11:50 AM, Philip J. Nesser II[SMTP:pjnesser@nesse= r.com] wrote: @ @And yes ARIN does provide whois service for all of the IPv4 space not @served by the DOD, RIPE and APNIC, and I think that most people @believe this is a worthwile and expected service. Not only to they do @it for AT&T, they do it for ALL ISP's, fancy that... @ To summarize, AT&T has huge allocations of IPv4 resources and they use those allocations to win contracts and sign up customers and ARIN does their paper work (back office) for them for no charge. Unlike AT&T, ISPs have to pay ARIN for their address allocations and for ARIN to handle their paper work as well as AT&T's paper work. Sounds like a very nice deal for AT&T. It is also a nice deal for ARIN. The losers are the ISPs that have to subsidize all this, not to mention the ISPs that lose out on contracts because they can not get IP addresses or have to pay a fortune for them*, while AT&T pays nothing. * Note: The cost of obtaining IP addresses is not just the ARIN fees. Companies also have to factor in the technical consulting costs, legal fees and management costs of dealing with ARIN. Companies like AT&T do not have these costs. - Jim Fleming Unir Corporation - http://www.unir.net IPv8 - Designed for the Rest of the Human Race AM Radio Stations ---> http://www.DOT.AM --=_481C1199.1C7D1170-- --=_481C1199.23422E4F-- From - Tue May 19 16:37:38 1998 Message-Id: <000019F8@ntiahq3.ntia.doc.gov> Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 16:23:47 -0400 From: "Karen Rose" To: Herschel Gelman Subject: RE: Who owns 12.0.0.0 ? AT&T or ARIN ? -Forwarded -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_4B1F129A.1D7C1071" This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to properly handle MIME multipart messages. --=_4B1F129A.1D7C1071 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline -K --=_4B1F129A.1D7C1071 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 16:13:53 -0400 From: "Becky Burr" To: Karen Rose Subject: RE: Who owns 12.0.0.0 ? AT&T or ARIN ? -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_4B1F129A.1E7F1372" --=_4B1F129A.1E7F1372 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline --=_4B1F129A.1E7F1372 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from webster.unir.net ([207.32.159.5]) by doorstep.unety.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA24123; Thu, 14 May 1998 13:22:24 -0500 Received: by webster.unir.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BD7F3A.918FE800@webster.unir.net>; Thu, 14 May 1998 13:16:56 -0500 Message-ID: <01BD7F3A.918FE800@webster.unir.net> From: Jim Fleming To: "arin-council@arin.net" , "'jis@MIT.EDU'" , "'ARIN list'" Cc: "'Antitrust List'" , "antitrust@usdoj.gov" , "BBURR@ntia.doc.gov" , "Ira Magaziner" Subject: RE: Who owns 12.0.0.0 ? AT&T or ARIN ? Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 13:16:55 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On Thursday, May 14, 1998 11:50 AM, Philip J. Nesser II[SMTP:pjnesser@nesse= r.com] wrote: @ @I do NOT work for the DOD/DARPA/NSF/ARPA/NSA/CIA/ETC, @ @nor do I get any grant money from the government, @ @nor do I work for ARIN, @ @nor have I ever received any payment directly or indirectly from any @of the I* organizations (IETF, IANA, ISOC, IAB, IESG, ARIN, APNIC, @RIPE, ETC) @ @I am sure that Jim will come up with some other questions, but what @the heck. =20 @ Can all of the above be said about MIT ? How is MIT's /8 ? What does MIT plan to do with all those IPv4 addresses ? Massachusetts Institute of Technology (NET-MIT-TEMP) 1 Amherst Street Cambridge, MA 02139-1986 Netname: MIT Netnumber: 18.0.0.0 Coordinator: Schiller, Jeffrey I (JIS-ARIN) jis@MIT.EDU +1 617 253-8400 (FAX) +1 617 258-8736 Domain System inverse mapping provided by: STRAWB.MIT.EDU 18.71.0.151 W20NS.MIT.EDU 18.70.0.160 BITSY.MIT.EDU 18.72.0.3 Record last updated on 14-Jan-94. Database last updated on 13-May-98 16:09:10 EDT. - Jim Fleming Unir Corporation - http://www.unir.net IPv8 - Designed for the Rest of the Human Race AM Radio Stations ---> http://www.DOT.AM --=_4B1F129A.1E7F1372-- --=_4B1F129A.1D7C1071-- From - Tue May 19 16:37:38 1998 Message-Id: <000019F6@ntiahq3.ntia.doc.gov> Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 16:23:48 -0400 From: "Karen Rose" To: Herschel Gelman Subject: Re: Who owns 12.0.0.0 ? AT&T or ARIN ? -Forwarded -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_4B1F129A.1F7E1273" This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to properly handle MIME multipart messages. --=_4B1F129A.1F7E1273 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline -K --=_4B1F129A.1F7E1273 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 16:13:55 -0400 From: "Becky Burr" To: Karen Rose Subject: Re: Who owns 12.0.0.0 ? AT&T or ARIN ? -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_4B1F129A.18791574" --=_4B1F129A.18791574 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline --=_4B1F129A.18791574 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from meltdown.schizo.com (meltdown.schizo.com [209.25.112.12]) by nuclear.ediweb.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id PAA08913; Thu, 14 May 1998 15:04:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00ab01bd7f6b$02e915a0$0c7019d1@meltdown.schizo.com> From: "David Wimsey" To: "Jim Fleming" , , , "'ARIN list'" Cc: "'Antitrust List'" , , , Subject: Re: Who owns 12.0.0.0 ? AT&T or ARIN ? Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 15:03:41 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline I donno, maybe its just me... but I'm curious as to why MIT needs 24 = million IP addresses? Seems a little high to me... David -----Original Message----- From: Jim Fleming To: arin-council@arin.net ; 'jis@MIT.EDU' ; 'ARIN list' Cc: 'Antitrust List' ; antitrust@usdoj.gov ; BBURR@ntia.doc.gov ; Ira Magaziner Date: Thursday, May 14, 1998 2:16 PM Subject: RE: Who owns 12.0.0.0 ? AT&T or ARIN ? >On Thursday, May 14, 1998 11:50 AM, Philip J. Nesser II[SMTP:pjnesser@nesser.com] wrote: > >@ >@I do NOT work for the DOD/DARPA/NSF/ARPA/NSA/CIA/ETC, >@ >@nor do I get any grant money from the government, >@ >@nor do I work for ARIN, >@ >@nor have I ever received any payment directly or indirectly from any >@of the I* organizations (IETF, IANA, ISOC, IAB, IESG, ARIN, APNIC, >@RIPE, ETC) >@ >@I am sure that Jim will come up with some other questions, but what >@the heck. >@ > >Can all of the above be said about MIT ? > >How is MIT's /8 ? > >What does MIT plan to do with all those IPv4 addresses ? > >Massachusetts Institute of Technology (NET-MIT-TEMP) > 1 Amherst Street > Cambridge, MA 02139-1986 > > Netname: MIT > Netnumber: 18.0.0.0 > > Coordinator: > Schiller, Jeffrey I (JIS-ARIN) jis@MIT.EDU > +1 617 253-8400 (FAX) +1 617 258-8736 > > Domain System inverse mapping provided by: > > STRAWB.MIT.EDU 18.71.0.151 > W20NS.MIT.EDU 18.70.0.160 > BITSY.MIT.EDU 18.72.0.3 > > Record last updated on 14-Jan-94. > Database last updated on 13-May-98 16:09:10 EDT. > >- >Jim Fleming >Unir Corporation - http://www.unir.net >IPv8 - Designed for the Rest of the Human Race >AM Radio Stations ---> http://www.DOT.AM > > --=_4B1F129A.18791574-- --=_4B1F129A.1F7E1273-- From - Tue May 19 16:37:39 1998 Message-Id: <000019F1@ntiahq3.ntia.doc.gov> Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 16:23:49 -0400 From: "Karen Rose" To: Herschel Gelman Subject: RE: Who owns 12.0.0.0 ? AT&T or ARIN ? -Forwarded -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_4B1F129A.19781475" This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to properly handle MIME multipart messages. --=_4B1F129A.19781475 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline -K --=_4B1F129A.19781475 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 16:13:56 -0400 From: "Becky Burr" To: Karen Rose Subject: RE: Who owns 12.0.0.0 ? AT&T or ARIN ? -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_4B1F129A.1A7B1776" --=_4B1F129A.1A7B1776 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline --=_4B1F129A.1A7B1776 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from pc-pjnesser.nesser.com (ns [206.129.134.238]) by ns.Nesser.COM (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA06960; Thu, 14 May 1998 12:19:25 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: From: "Philip J. Nesser II" To: "Jim Fleming" , , , "'ARIN list'" Cc: "'Antitrust List'" , , , Subject: RE: Who owns 12.0.0.0 ? AT&T or ARIN ? Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 12:05:52 -0700 Message-ID: <002d01bd7f6b$5091c2c0$b00a0180@pc-pjnesser.nesser.com> X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <01BD7F3A.918FE800@webster.unir.net> X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 >=20 > On Thursday, May 14, 1998 11:50 AM, Philip J. Nesser=20 > II[SMTP:pjnesser@nesser.com] wrote: > > @ > @I do NOT work for the DOD/DARPA/NSF/ARPA/NSA/CIA/ETC, > @ > @nor do I get any grant money from the government, > @ > @nor do I work for ARIN, > @ > @nor have I ever received any payment directly or indirectly from any > @of the I* organizations (IETF, IANA, ISOC, IAB, IESG, ARIN, APNIC, > @RIPE, ETC) > @ > @I am sure that Jim will come up with some other questions, but what > @the heck. =20 > @ >=20 > Can all of the above be said about MIT ? >=20 Why don't yo ask them? > How is MIT's /8 ? I am sure it is fine. Integers don't generally get sick. >=20 > What does MIT plan to do with all those IPv4 addresses ? >=20 Why don't you ask them? > Massachusetts Institute of Technology (NET-MIT-TEMP) > 1 Amherst Street > Cambridge, MA 02139-1986 >=20 > Netname: MIT > Netnumber: 18.0.0.0 >=20 > Coordinator: > Schiller, Jeffrey I (JIS-ARIN) jis@MIT.EDU > +1 617 253-8400 (FAX) +1 617 258-8736 >=20 > Domain System inverse mapping provided by: >=20 > STRAWB.MIT.EDU 18.71.0.151 > W20NS.MIT.EDU 18.70.0.160 > BITSY.MIT.EDU 18.72.0.3 >=20 > Record last updated on 14-Jan-94. > Database last updated on 13-May-98 16:09:10 EDT. >=20 I am proud to see that you have mastered the complexities of running whois. > - > Jim Fleming > Unir Corporation - http://www.unir.net > IPv8 - Designed for the Rest of the Human Race > AM Radio Stations ---> http://www.DOT.AM >=20 > - ---> Phil =20 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.5.3 for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBNVtAjzW2hWRjwTVBEQJ+6gCg+zlKarWHeyU1pKdYvziMiesSXawAoNrI G4ZO0RloKJpHxHyj2RYXTf1B =3DBCP3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=_4B1F129A.1A7B1776-- --=_4B1F129A.19781475-- From - Tue May 19 16:37:39 1998 Message-Id: <000019F2@ntiahq3.ntia.doc.gov> Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 16:23:52 -0400 From: "Karen Rose" To: Herschel Gelman Subject: RE: Who owns 12.0.0.0 ? AT&T or ARIN ? -Forwarded -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_4A1E139B.1B7A1677" This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to properly handle MIME multipart messages. --=_4A1E139B.1B7A1677 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline -K --=_4A1E139B.1B7A1677 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 16:13:57 -0400 From: "Becky Burr" To: Karen Rose Subject: RE: Who owns 12.0.0.0 ? AT&T or ARIN ? -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_4A1E139B.14751978" --=_4A1E139B.14751978 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline --=_4A1E139B.14751978 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from webster.unir.net ([207.32.159.5]) by doorstep.unety.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA24254; Thu, 14 May 1998 14:19:05 -0500 Received: by webster.unir.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BD7F42.7C8B1260@webster.unir.net>; Thu, 14 May 1998 14:13:37 -0500 Message-ID: <01BD7F42.7C8B1260@webster.unir.net> From: Jim Fleming To: "arin-council@arin.net" , "'dpz@APPLE.COM'" , "jis@MIT.EDU" , "'ARIN list'" , "'David Wimsey'" Cc: "'Antitrust List'" , "antitrust@usdoj.gov" , "BBURR@ntia.doc.gov" , "Ira Magaziner" Subject: RE: Who owns 12.0.0.0 ? AT&T or ARIN ? Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 14:13:35 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On Thursday, May 14, 1998 2:03 PM, David Wimsey[SMTP:wimsey@rtci.com] = wrote: @I donno, maybe its just me... but I'm curious as to why MIT needs 24 = million @IP addresses? Seems a little high to me... @ What about Apple Computer ? Note, they also use other IPv4 space as noted below 130.43.2.6. Many of the companies and institutions with these large allocations also use other allocations from other address spaces. No one seems to want to clean this up. Apple Computer, Inc. (NET-APPLE-WWNET) 20740 Valley Green Drive, MS: 32-E Cupertino, CA 95014 Netname: APPLE-WWNET Netnumber: 17.0.0.0 Coordinator: Zimmerman, David Paul (DPZ-ARIN) dpz@APPLE.COM +1 (408) 974-2436 (FAX) +1 (408) 974-3103 Domain System inverse mapping provided by: NSERVER.APPLE.COM 17.254.0.50 COLOSSUS.APPLE.COM 130.43.2.6 Record last updated on 12-Jun-97. Database last updated on 13-May-98 16:09:10 EDT. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D - Jim Fleming Unir Corporation - http://www.unir.net IPv8 - Designed for the Rest of the Human Race AM Radio Stations ---> http://www.DOT.AM --=_4A1E139B.14751978-- --=_4A1E139B.1B7A1677-- From - Tue May 19 16:37:40 1998 Message-Id: <000019F4@ntiahq3.ntia.doc.gov> Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 16:23:53 -0400 From: "Karen Rose" To: Herschel Gelman Subject: RE: Who owns 12.0.0.0 ? AT&T or ARIN ? -Forwarded -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_4D19149C.15741879" This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to properly handle MIME multipart messages. --=_4D19149C.15741879 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline -K --=_4D19149C.15741879 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 16:13:58 -0400 From: "Becky Burr" To: Karen Rose Subject: RE: Who owns 12.0.0.0 ? AT&T or ARIN ? -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_4D19149C.16771B7A" --=_4D19149C.16771B7A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline --=_4D19149C.16771B7A Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from pc-pjnesser.nesser.com (ns [206.129.134.238]) by ns.Nesser.COM (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA06973; Thu, 14 May 1998 12:29:09 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: From: "Philip J. Nesser II" To: "Jim Fleming" , , "'ARIN list'" Cc: "'Antitrust List'" , , , Subject: RE: Who owns 12.0.0.0 ? AT&T or ARIN ? Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 12:15:36 -0700 Message-ID: <002e01bd7f6c$ac70a1a0$b00a0180@pc-pjnesser.nesser.com> X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <01BD7F38.83192040@webster.unir.net> X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 > On Thursday, May 14, 1998 11:50 AM, Philip J. Nesser=20 > II[SMTP:pjnesser@nesser.com] wrote: > > @ > @And yes ARIN does provide whois service for all of the IPv4 space not > @served by the DOD, RIPE and APNIC, and I think that most people > @believe this is a worthwile and expected service. Not only to they do > @it for AT&T, they do it for ALL ISP's, fancy that... > @ >=20 > To summarize, AT&T has huge allocations of IPv4 resources > and they use those allocations to win contracts and sign up > customers and ARIN does their paper work (back office) for > them for no charge. Unlike AT&T, ISPs have to pay ARIN for > their address allocations and for ARIN to handle their paper work > as well as AT&T's paper work. Sounds like a very nice deal for > AT&T. It is also a nice deal for ARIN. The losers are the ISPs > that have to subsidize all this, not to mention the ISPs that lose > out on contracts because they can not get IP addresses or > have to pay a fortune for them*, while AT&T pays nothing. >=20 I believe that you finally have discovered the one true conspiracy out there, all things are not equal. Yes, AT&T and a number of other early net pioneers have large allocations of IP address space and current ISP's don't. What a startling revelation.=20 If you want to play the game, then what about the millions in research that AT&T and other companies have done in computer technology, protocol development, etc that are commonly and freely used today.=20 Isn't it horrible that all of these upstart ISPs that have only gotten into the ISP game in the last few years have benefited from all of that effort. Seems like a pretty sweet deal for them. =20 There are advantages and disadvantages to being in an area early or late, this is reality. - ---> Phil -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.5.3 for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBNVtC1jW2hWRjwTVBEQKzQACfRG/sn5Pkd5xXKGdoXWFw2NsTimUAmwVG 0MDpUt8B4TTTRITu/SdWXNw1 =3D+MMU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=_4D19149C.16771B7A-- --=_4D19149C.15741879-- From - Tue May 19 16:37:41 1998 Message-Id: <000019FD@ntiahq3.ntia.doc.gov> Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 16:23:55 -0400 From: "Karen Rose" To: Herschel Gelman Subject: Re: Who owns 12.0.0.0 ? AT&T or ARIN ? -Forwarded -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_4C18159D.17761A7B" This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to properly handle MIME multipart messages. --=_4C18159D.17761A7B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline -K --=_4C18159D.17761A7B Content-Type: message/rfc822 Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 16:14:00 -0400 From: "Becky Burr" To: Karen Rose Subject: Re: Who owns 12.0.0.0 ? AT&T or ARIN ? -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_4C18159D.10711D7C" --=_4C18159D.10711D7C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline --=_4C18159D.10711D7C Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from meltdown.schizo.com (meltdown.schizo.com [209.25.112.12]) by nuclear.ediweb.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id PAA09034; Thu, 14 May 1998 15:18:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00e101bd7f6c$e3ddc780$0c7019d1@meltdown.schizo.com> From: "David Wimsey" To: "Jim Fleming" , , , , "'ARIN list'" Cc: "'Antitrust List'" , , , Subject: Re: Who owns 12.0.0.0 ? AT&T or ARIN ? Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 15:17:08 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline I don't think I know of any reason why any single organization would = obtain a block of 24 million addresses... other then network infurstructure organizations (i.e. sprint, mci ). I'll give anyone on this list a crispy $100 bill if they can show me where apple will ever have 24 million = machines that must be connected to the internet, and can NOT use NAT or a proxy... Whats being done to reclaim this blatent abuse of address space? ( I = could see this as a large cost for ARIN, justifing thier income) David -----Original Message----- From: Jim Fleming To: arin-council@arin.net ; 'dpz@APPLE.COM' ; jis@MIT.EDU ; 'ARIN list' ; 'David Wimsey' Cc: 'Antitrust List' ; antitrust@usdoj.gov ; BBURR@ntia.doc.gov ; Ira Magaziner Date: Thursday, May 14, 1998 3:12 PM Subject: RE: Who owns 12.0.0.0 ? AT&T or ARIN ? >On Thursday, May 14, 1998 2:03 PM, David Wimsey[SMTP:wimsey@rtci.com] wrote: >@I donno, maybe its just me... but I'm curious as to why MIT needs 24 million >@IP addresses? Seems a little high to me... >@ > >What about Apple Computer ? Note, they also use other IPv4 >space as noted below 130.43.2.6. Many of the companies and >institutions with these large allocations also use other allocations >from other address spaces. No one seems to want to clean this up. > > >Apple Computer, Inc. (NET-APPLE-WWNET) > 20740 Valley Green Drive, MS: 32-E > Cupertino, CA 95014 > > Netname: APPLE-WWNET > Netnumber: 17.0.0.0 > > Coordinator: > Zimmerman, David Paul (DPZ-ARIN) dpz@APPLE.COM > +1 (408) 974-2436 (FAX) +1 (408) 974-3103 > > Domain System inverse mapping provided by: > > NSERVER.APPLE.COM 17.254.0.50 > COLOSSUS.APPLE.COM 130.43.2.6 > > Record last updated on 12-Jun-97. > Database last updated on 13-May-98 16:09:10 EDT. > >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > > >- >Jim Fleming >Unir Corporation - http://www.unir.net >IPv8 - Designed for the Rest of the Human Race >AM Radio Stations ---> http://www.DOT.AM > > --=_4C18159D.10711D7C-- --=_4C18159D.17761A7B-- From - Tue May 19 16:37:41 1998 Message-Id: <000019FB@ntiahq3.ntia.doc.gov> Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 16:23:57 -0400 From: "Karen Rose" To: Herschel Gelman Subject: RE: Who owns 12.0.0.0 ? AT&T or ARIN ? -Forwarded -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_4C18159D.11701C7D" This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to properly handle MIME multipart messages. --=_4C18159D.11701C7D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline -K --=_4C18159D.11701C7D Content-Type: message/rfc822 Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 16:14:01 -0400 From: "Becky Burr" To: Karen Rose Subject: RE: Who owns 12.0.0.0 ? AT&T or ARIN ? -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_4C18159D.12731F7E" --=_4C18159D.12731F7E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline --=_4C18159D.12731F7E Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from webster.unir.net ([207.32.159.5]) by doorstep.unety.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA24291; Thu, 14 May 1998 14:36:05 -0500 Received: by webster.unir.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BD7F44.DC85C5A0@webster.unir.net>; Thu, 14 May 1998 14:30:37 -0500 Message-ID: <01BD7F44.DC85C5A0@webster.unir.net> From: Jim Fleming To: "arin-council@arin.net" , "dpz@APPLE.COM" , "jis@MIT.EDU" , "'ARIN list'" , "'David Wimsey'" Cc: "'Antitrust List'" , "antitrust@usdoj.gov" , "BBURR@ntia.doc.gov" , "Ira Magaziner" Subject: RE: Who owns 12.0.0.0 ? AT&T or ARIN ? Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 14:30:35 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On Thursday, May 14, 1998 2:17 PM, David Wimsey[SMTP:wimsey@rtci.com] = wrote: @I don't think I know of any reason why any single organization would = obtain @a block of 24 million addresses... other then network infurstructure @organizations (i.e. sprint, mci ). I'll give anyone on this list a = crispy @$100 bill if they can show me where apple will ever have 24 million = machines @that must be connected to the internet, and can NOT use NAT or a proxy... @ @Whats being done to reclaim this blatent abuse of address space? ( I = could @see this as a large cost for ARIN, justifing thier income) @ If Apple or MIT or any of the other /8 address "owners" decide to go into the IPv4 registry business to compete with ARIN, they would need these addresses. A /8 can bring in a lot of revenue and it is unclear why the Board of Apple and/or the shareholders do not have this asset working. AT&T is clearly in this business with their 12.0.0.0 allocation. One thing that is curious is that IRS regulations prohibit a non-profit company from engaging in the same business that is handled by for-profit companies. Once again, it is unclear why the IRS approved ARIN to be a non-profit when they are in a for-profit business. - Jim Fleming Unir Corporation - http://www.unir.net IPv8 - Designed for the Rest of the Human Race AM Radio Stations ---> http://www.DOT.AM --=_4C18159D.12731F7E-- --=_4C18159D.11701C7D-- From - Tue May 19 16:37:42 1998 Message-Id: <000019FF@ntiahq3.ntia.doc.gov> Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 16:23:59 -0400 From: "Karen Rose" To: Herschel Gelman Subject: RE: Who owns 12.0.0.0 ? AT&T or ARIN ? -Forwarded -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_4F1B169E.13721E7F" This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to properly handle MIME multipart messages. --=_4F1B169E.13721E7F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline -K --=_4F1B169E.13721E7F Content-Type: message/rfc822 Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 16:14:02 -0400 From: "Becky Burr" To: Karen Rose Subject: RE: Who owns 12.0.0.0 ? AT&T or ARIN ? -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_4F1B169E.0C6D0160" --=_4F1B169E.0C6D0160 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline --=_4F1B169E.0C6D0160 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from webster.unir.net ([207.32.159.5]) by doorstep.unety.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA24319; Thu, 14 May 1998 14:54:57 -0500 Received: by webster.unir.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BD7F47.7F49F200@webster.unir.net>; Thu, 14 May 1998 14:49:29 -0500 Message-ID: <01BD7F47.7F49F200@webster.unir.net> From: Jim Fleming To: "arin-council@arin.net" , "'ARIN list'" , "'pjnesser@nesser.com'" Cc: "'Antitrust List'" , "antitrust@usdoj.gov" , "BBURR@ntia.doc.gov" , "Ira Magaziner" Subject: RE: Who owns 12.0.0.0 ? AT&T or ARIN ? Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 14:49:27 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On Thursday, May 14, 1998 2:15 PM, Philip J. Nesser II[SMTP:pjnesser@nesser= .com] wrote: =20 @ @There are advantages and disadvantages to being in an area early or @late, this is reality. @ Since we can not change the past, do you advocate a "land grab" from here on out ? How should future /8 allocations be handled ? Do other countries get any large allocations ? How about other military organizations in the world ? Who will make those decisions ? Also, are you implying that there is no merit in having addresses returned ? What if a company is no longer in business ? What do you think about the idea that all /8 owners should be encouraged to become IPv4 registries ? Is that what AT&T has become with 12.0.0.0 ? - Jim Fleming Unir Corporation - http://www.unir.net IPv8 - Designed for the Rest of the Human Race AM Radio Stations ---> http://www.DOT.AM --=_4F1B169E.0C6D0160-- --=_4F1B169E.13721E7F--