The O'Neill Speakership

    Mr. HYMEL. Thank you, Walter, and thank you for putting together 
this excellent panel of people who knew Tip. It's been 10 years since 
Tip was with us but a week doesn't go by that his name isn't in the 
paper, usually associated with that saying, ``All politics is local,'' 
something his father taught him. It was used last Tuesday, in the 
Kentucky election, for instance. The Democratic candidate was upset and 
a consultant said afterward that Tip O'Neill was right--all politics is 
local. Many Kentucky voters were angry with the previous Governor's 
sexual escapades. I'm not so sure Tip meant that his saying should apply 
in that context, but if it fits I guess it's all right.
    Just last month I was talking to Lindy Boggs and she was telling me 
about when she was at Tip's funeral. It was very crowded because it was 
at Tip's parish church in Cambridge. And the fellow next to her said, 
``They should have had this funeral at a cathedral where they could 
accommodate everybody. This is too crowded.'' And Lindy said, ``I looked 
at him and said, `All politics is local.' '' Two weeks ago in The Hill 
newspaper, there was a cartoon strip about a Congressman who wants to 
get all the benefits for his district but didn't want to vote for an 
increase in taxes. The last cartoon panel said, ``Well, you taught me 
`all politics is loco.' '' Another case when Tip was invoked occurred 
when Arnold Schwarzenegger was elected Governor of California. The 
reporters interviewed John Burton who is the president pro tem of the 
California Senate, and they asked, ``How are you going to get along with 
Governor Schwarzenegger?'' And Burton said, ``I'm going to treat him 
like Tip O'Neill treated Ronald Reagan.'' He said, ``They had a 
wonderful personal relationship and they fought over policy, as we 
should.''
    Tip ruled by anecdote and he ruled by humor, and I'm sure you all 
know that. Senator John McCain, last week in a Washington Post story 
about the disappearance of the real characters in Congress, said, ``To 
be honest my favorite was Tip O'Neill.'' He said, ``One time I spent 
five hours with him on a plane, and it was probably the most 
entertaining five hours of my life.'' The other day I was taking a 
client through the Rayburn Building. He said, ``I need a shoe shine.'' 
So we went in the barbershop and Joe Quattrone, the longtime barber 
there said, ``Gary, I got to tell you my favorite Tip O'Neill story.'' 
And my client's listening, of course. He said, ``You know Richard 
Kelly,''--some of you may remember the Congressman from Florida who got 
in trouble for taking a bribe and was about to be sentenced. Quattrone 
said to Kelly, ``I'm sorry for what happened,'' and Kelly said, ``Joe, 
don't worry about it. I'm at peace with myself. I'm really feeling good 
about myself. I was just on the House floor and Tip O'Neill put his arm 
around me and said, `I'm sorry for what happened, and my door will 
always be open to you.' '' That was Tip O'Neill.
    I want to tell one last story, one former Congressman Joe McDade 
told me about 2 weeks ago when I saw him at a book signing. Joe said, 
``Gary, you don't know this story but one time we were traveling with 
Tip through Europe and we stopped at the airport in Shannon, 
Ireland,''--and if you ever took a trip with Tip, you always stopped at 
the Shannon Airport because they have a great duty-free shop. ``So 
everybody was getting off the plane and Tip said, `You know I'm not 
feeling well. You go on and shop, I'm going to stay on the plane.' '' 
Joe said, ``Tip, I'll stay with you and keep you company.'' So they're 
sitting there shooting the bull--I'm sure talking sports and politics, 
and the pilot, an Air Force colonel, came back and said, ``Mr. Speaker, 
can I get you anything?'' Tip said, ``No, no. Everything's fine. On 
second thought, could you take the plane up so we can see Ireland from 
the air?'' And the colonel said, ``Sure.'' So Joe said they revved up 
the engines and took this United States of America airliner up and 
circled for awhile. Tip saw Ireland from the air, and then they landed 
and got everybody on and went home. To me that typified Tip O'Neill.
    Now let me tell you about some of the people who will speak about 
him today. First is Jack Farrell. Now Jack didn't know Tip as well as 
Danny Rostenkowski or Mickey Edwards or myself, but he got to know him. 
Jack spent 6 years researching Tip's life. He did 300 interviews and 
wrote a book called, Tip O'Neill and the Democratic Century. It sold 
38,000 copies. You can still buy it today. Jack did an excellent job. 
Everybody co-operated with Jack because former Congressman Joe Moakley, 
Tip's very dear friend, said you could trust Jack Farrell. Jack is now 
the bureau chief of the Denver Post, and he will talk to you about what 
he learned about Tip.
    Next on the podium is former Congressman Danny Rostenkowski, who was 
very, very close to Tip. They are very similar. They're both big 
persons, their fathers were in politics, they are Catholic, ethnic, big-
city organization Democrats. Danny had a lot of ideas about how the 
House could be run better and he was very generous about giving his 
opinions to Tip O'Neill. And some of his ideas are still in place today. 
For instance, Danny is the guy who came up with the idea to have weekly 
whip meetings. They had never had them before. The practice of rolling 
votes from Monday into Tuesday, which helped the ``Tuesday-to-Thursday 
Club,'' also was Danny's idea. Dan could have been on the leadership 
ladder. He could have been the whip for Tip, but he chose to be chairman 
of the Ways and Means Committee instead.
    Mickey Edwards, our final panel member, is a former GOP Congressman 
from Oklahoma. He was sworn in by Tip when he was a freshman. He became 
a member of the loyal opposition. Edwards was head of the Republican 
Policy Committee, and chair of the American Conservative Union. In fact, 
he now teaches a class in American conservatism at the Kennedy School at 
Harvard, which he's meeting this afternoon at 2:30. We'll let each panel 
member speak and then take questions from the audience. With that, I'll 
turn it over to Jack Farrell.
    Mr. FARRELL. Good morning. So a few months ago I got a call from 
Walter, who has now slunk away somewhere, and he asked me if I would 
give a talk about Tip O'Neill. And I thought I was going to be in a 
small conference room with maybe a few members of the Congressional 
Research Service staff. It was only a couple of weeks ago that I 
actually got an invitation and noted that this was going to be a 
historic event featuring all three living former Speakers and the 
current Speaker. And it came to me that Speakers Foley and Wright and 
Gingrich were all going to be here, appearing in person, giving first-
hand accounts with behind-the-scenes nuggets that historians would prize 
forever. And if that was not daunting enough I had been selected to 
stand in for one of the greatest storytellers of all time, Speaker Tip 
O'Neill. So I was struck by one of those moments of stark panic. 
Desperately, I came up with the idea that I was going to deliver this 
speech in the first person, like Hal Holbrook doing Mark Twain. I would 
dress up like Tip, comb my hair back, sprinkle some flour in it so I'd 
have that grand O'Neill white shock of hair. Maybe strap a pillow around 
my waist and speak through the stub of a cigar. I ran this by Gary and 
Walter and got what I guess could be described as politely nervous 
chuckles. But as always the sharpest perspective came from my wife 
Catharina. She said, ``Jack, I love you. But you're a lousy actor and 
you're a worst mimic. In all the weeks of your book tour, all the 
stories you told, you never once gave a good impression of Tip O'Neill. 
Your `dahlings' and your `old pals' were never persuasive. Your Boston 
accent is unconvincing and when you sing it's off key. You barely need 
the pillow and you can douse your head with as much flour as you want. 
It's never going to make you look like Tip O'Neill, but a little bit 
more like snow on Old Baldy. You just don't have enough trees at the 
peak.'' So Tip remains to be played maybe in a one-man show by John 
Goodman or Ned Beattie or Charles Durning. And having watched John 
Goodman play a Speaker on ``West Wing'' this fall, I think he might be 
the best bet even though he did play a Republican.
    So now I get to talk about Tip, not to try and channel him. And the 
sound that you are hearing is that of 1,000 C-SPAN viewers sighing in 
relief. Though I spent 6 years on my biography of Speaker O'Neill, I'm 
very modest about my ability to describe his motivation on many matters. 
As he once said, ``You cannot look into a man's heart. Human beings keep 
great secrets.'' But I do believe--I do know that Tip would have 
approved what we're doing here today. He revered the House and the 
Speaker's Office and, this may come as a surprise to some in the room, 
he was a life-long student of history. Many of you may travel to Boston 
for the Democratic Convention next summer or to New England to see the 
leaves of autumn, and if you pause at Minuteman Park and follow where 
the Redcoats were chased by the Rebels down the road from Concord to 
Lexington, or you go to Charlestown to walk the decks of Old Ironsides 
or you visit the Old North Church or the Paul Revere House or many of 
the other carefully preserved historic sites on the Freedom Walk in 
Boston, you should tip your hat to Tip, who was responsible, or at least 
shared in the responsibility, of winning Federal protection and funding 
for these sites when he served with great enthusiasm on the National 
Historic Sites Commission. Tip's ability to bring home the bacon for 
matters of historic preservation is part of a pattern. For one of the 
things I discovered when doing the research for my book was that in the 
days before he entered the House leadership he was a colossal collector 
of ``pork'' for Massachusetts. From a junior seat on the Rules 
Committee, according to one reputable academic study, Tip's share of 
Federal postal, health, welfare, anti-poverty and education funds was 
demonstratively greater than those claimed by the chairman of the 
authorizing committee or the chairman of the Appropriations Subcommittee 
that had jurisdiction over those matters. And I see heads nodding among 
the cognoscenti in appreciation of that particular trick. Congressman 
Jim McGovern wherever you are, eat your heart out.
    If you go to Massachusetts to visit those historic sites, you'll no 
doubt travel on roads that Tip played a major role in building. Not just 
the multibillion dollar Central Artery Project which is rightly known as 
Tip's Tunnel in Boston, but also the aging elevated Fitzgerald 
Expressway that they're tearing down to make way for the new artery. Tip 
helped build it when serving as the first Democratic speaker of the 
Massachusetts House after World War II. In those days, before the 
creation of the interstate highway system, the States paid for their own 
roads and the Massachusetts government cut corners in the form of exit 
and entrance ramps to save money when building the expressway. Soon it 
would take 45 minutes to get from one side of Boston to the other. So 
when he came to Congress, Tip set about solving this. In a way, he 
inherited his own problem and the way he solved it 40 years later was by 
tapping the U.S. Treasury to the tune of $12 billion, and Massachusetts 
thanks you.
    As he raked in the Federal largesse for his State and district, 
O'Neill also took the time to make sure that the Minuteman Park and the 
Old North Church were protected. It's a small but perhaps telling 
indication that in Tip O'Neill you have a somewhat more complicated 
character than the popular image suggested. He was a wardheeler to be 
sure, but one of the first to be blessed with a college diploma from 
Boston College. No one was better at swapping favors, but when he first 
ran for office, and in his years in the Massachusetts State House, he 
had the tiniest bit of a hint of a sheen of a middle-class reformer 
about him. He was certainly no James ``Take a Buck'' Coffey, that 
memorable State rep from Beacon Hill who so eloquently summed up the 
code of a certain class of Massachusetts politicians. Coffey publicly 
announced, ``I'll take a buck. And who the hell doesn't know it? I'm 
probably the only one who has guts enough to say I'll take a buck. I'd 
like to see the guy who doesn't.''
    Tip knew the ways, and could throw a mean elbow, but he appreciated 
youth and idealism and was able to change with the times. He had street 
smarts and Jesuit schooling. Representative Barney Frank, a Harvard 
graduate, once told me that he thought Tip was smart enough to teach 
history on the faculty at Boston College. It was only after leaving the 
interview and upon some reflection that I began to worry that Barney was 
playing with me and that his comment said more about how Harvard views 
Boston College than it does of Tip's particular gifts and abilities. But 
I brought it up with him later and Barney assured me that he meant it as 
a compliment to Tip, not a knock at BC.
    Tip's ability to bridge the gap between the new and the old would 
prove to be an invaluable asset as he rose to the speakership. He and 
his predecessor, Carl Albert, are rightly known amongst students of 
Congress as the key transitional figures in the development of the 
modern Speaker. And, in fact, I have my own thanks to give to the Carl 
Albert Center and to Mr. Peters for much of the analysis that I'm about 
to present, and for also preserving and sharing a remarkable oral 
history by Carl Albert in which Carl laid it down as he saw it, with 
absolutely no reservations, when commenting about the character of his 
peers in all those years in Congress.
    Albert and O'Neill presided over the transition from old to new, 
there's no doubt. Consider what preceded them for most of the 20th 
century--a rigid seniority system with tyrannical old southern chairmen, 
and a closed-door leadership characterized by Speaker Sam Rayburn's 
``board of education.'' The board was located in a high-ceilinged room 
one floor below the House Chamber and Tip visited when he was invited by 
his patron Speaker John McCormack, who was then majority leader. Tip sat 
around with Mr. Sam's closest buddies drinking hard liquor, and using 
the small sink that, as D.B. Hardeman and Donald Bacon so memorably put 
it, ``served as a public urinal for some of America's most famous 
political figures.'' It was from that room that Harry Truman was 
summoned to the White House to be sworn in as President when Franklin 
Roosevelt died. And Mr. Sam routinely invited a few up-and-comers like 
Albert, Hale Boggs, and Tip O'Neill to listen as he and Lyndon Johnson 
and John McCormack or House Parliamentarian Lewis Deschler discussed the 
day's events and struck a blow for liberty.
    That was the House as Tip knew it when he arrived in Congress in 
1953. Even the arrival of Jack Kennedy did not change things. The 
southern chairmen remained in control, and Tip found it particularly 
frustrating because--though JFK was from Massachusetts--political rivals 
on the President's staff kept O'Neill away from the new President. When 
he turned 50, he took his daughter Rosemary to dinner.
    ``That's it. My career is over,'' Tip told Rosemary. ``We had a 
President from my own State, from my own district and I can't get in to 
see him.'' Well, as someone who's just a few months from turning 50, I 
hope that the next 35 years do for my career what the next 35 did for 
Tip. The war in Vietnam turned out to be his great opportunity. He was 
an early foe, representing a district that turned against the war before 
much of the rest of America. His stance against the war gave him 
credibility, and a following, among the flock of young representatives 
who were then beginning to arrive in Washington. Like them, he was 
frustrated by the way that the tough old southern chairmen refused to 
allow recorded votes on the war. Out of sympathy, and expediency, he 
joined many of their attempts to reform Congress.
    Though a northerner, Tip was a veteran Democrat who could appeal to 
the South; he could also appeal to both the ``old guard'' and the ``new 
turks.'' So he was selected by Albert and Majority Leader Boggs to 
become the Democratic whip. Then, of course, came the stroke of fortune 
that put Tip just a step away from the Speaker's Office. Boggs' airplane 
took off in unsettled weather in Alaska and he was never seen again. So 
it was Tip who faced off against Richard Nixon. He found himself the 
leader of the House Democrats in the turbulent years of Watergate. And 
it was clear throughout the early seventies that his strength in the 
House came from his ability to span this gap between North and South, 
young and old, new suburban representatives, and the lingering captains 
of the old city machines. It was a very delicate balancing act but it 
got him where he wanted to be--the Speaker of the House in 1976, just in 
time for the return of a Democratic Presidency.
    But as he took the oath of office, O'Neill looked out on a House 
that was far different from the one he had joined in 1953. ``The group 
that came in 1974, the ``Watergate babies,'' were a bunch of 
mavericks,'' said Jim Wright. ``All of them had run on reform platforms 
intent on changing anything and everything they found that had needed 
changing.'' Indeed, while the turbulence of the sixties, the Vietnam 
war, and the years of Watergate had led millions of young Americans to 
abandon the political process and turn inward, those who persisted in 
politics--in Democratic politics--were highly committed activists who 
had cut their teeth on civil rights, the anti-war movement or the 
Kennedy, McCarthy and McGovern campaigns. They viewed Washington as a 
capital in need of purging.
    Tip recalled that ``these youthful, able, talented people, they 
didn't like the establishment. They didn't like Washington. They didn't 
like the seniority system. They didn't like the closeness of it and they 
came down here with new ideas. They wanted to change the Congress of the 
United States, which they did.'' The old politics had fallen into 
disrepair. The Democratic Members of the classes of 1970, 1972, 1974, 
and 1976 were prototypes of a new kind of Senator and Representative. 
They were comfortable with their ideological allies in the press corps 
that was undergoing similar changes. They were conversant in the 
politics of televised imagery and campaign commercials and generally 
beholden to few party leaders. They were independent political 
entrepreneurs who raised their own funds, hired professional advisors, 
and reached out to the voters using direct mail appeals, single-issue 
interest groups, radio, and television advertising. Said Tip, ``About 50 
percent of these people had never served in public life before. When I 
came to Congress the average man had been in the legislature, had been a 
mayor or district attorney or served in the local city council. They 
grew up knowing what party discipline was about. These new people came 
as individuals. They got elected criticizing Washington. They said, 
`Hey, we never got any help from the Democratic Party. We won on our own 
and we're going to be independent.' They started in 1974 and they broke 
the discipline.''
    The House was thoroughly remade from the sleepy institution of Tip's 
early years in Congress. The southern autocracy was broken; the 
shuffling old bulls swept from the Capitol's halls. Of 292 Democrats 
when Tip took over as Speaker in January 1977, only 15 had served in 
Congress longer than he had. The average age in the House had dropped to 
49.3, the youngest since World War II. The regional distribution of the 
two parties had begun to reflect the transformative success of the 
Republican southern strategy. And the old urban strongholds of ethnic 
white Democrats had been washed away by the great post-war migration of 
black Americans from the South and the subsequent white flight to the 
suburbs. The new breed of Democratic office holders, Tim Wirth, Gary 
Hart, Paul Tsongas, Michael Dukakis, and the rest, were neoliberals who 
sold the notion of political reform and their own personalities to 
suburbanites who gathered political information from television, not the 
local block captain. Ticket splitting was far more common. The 
percentage of voters who chose the party line dropped in House elections 
from 84 percent to 69 percent in the 20 years after 1958. Without an 
old-time party machine to distribute winter coats and turkeys, those new 
political entrepreneurs invested considerable resources into 
sophisticated constituent service operations, answering mail and 
telephone calls, staffing satellite mobile field offices, chasing down 
wayward Social Security checks.
    Between 1971 and 1981 the volume of incoming mail to Congress more 
than tripled. Watts lines, word processors, and computerized mailing 
systems became commonplace features in congressional offices. Members of 
this new Congress depended on televised imagery and telegenic forums. 
The number of committee and subcommittee chairmen had doubled to some 
200 during the time O'Neill had been in Congress. The duties of 
constituent service and the work of these subcommittees fueled the 
demand for more staff. The 435 Members of the House had 2,000 employees 
on their payroll when O'Neill arrived in 1953. There were 7,000 such 
employees in 1977 and another 3,000 working for committees, 
subcommittees, and the party leadership. The Rules Committee served as a 
prime illustration. Chairman Howard Smith (D-VA), had two committee 
aides in 1960 when Tip served on Rules. Twenty years later there were 
42. Congress was now a billion-dollar business with a commensurate 
demand for more lobbyists, special interest groups, trade associations, 
and journalists.
    The average number of days in session jumped from 230 in the 
Eisenhower years to 323 in the 95th Congress. And the number of recorded 
votes went from 71 in O'Neill's first year to 834 in 1978. Gone were the 
days when Carl Albert, following Sam Rayburn's advice, would spend his 
days in the House Chamber soaking up knowledge and forging collegial 
relationships. Gone as well were the hours when Harold Donohue (D-MA), 
and Phil Philbin (D-MA), would slump in the soft leather chairs of the 
House Chamber each afternoon like aged hotel detectives, whiling away 
the hours with gossip and the occasional rousing snore. A 1977 study by 
a House Commission found that Members worked 11-hour days of which only 
33 minutes were spent at contemplative tasks like reading, thinking, or 
writing. The House became a place to cast a vote and flee, not as much 
to mingle, converse, or enjoy the debate.
    For many it was hard not to hearken back to George Washington 
Plunkett, the legendary sage of Tammany Hall who asked in 1905, ``Have 
you ever thought what would become of the country if the bosses were put 
out of business and their places were taken by a lot of cart-tail 
orators and college graduates? It would mean chaos.''
    And so, in the early years of Jimmy Carter's Presidency, O'Neill 
pioneered a process by which he would govern the House for the next 
decade. It came to be known as the ``politics of inclusion.'' The idea 
was to rope your colleagues in to secure their allegiance by giving them 
a stake in the results, to share the responsibility as well as the 
spoils, and to co-opt resistance. Did the new breed of congressmen and 
congresswomen--the political entrepreneurs--demand a piece of the action 
and a ticket to the 5 o'clock news? Then O'Neill would give it to them 
in return for their loyalty. Starting with an Ad-hoc Energy Committee 
and three energy task forces, soon every major issue had a task force 
and bright, young Members to chair it: willing to trade their 
independence for the power and celebrity of serving in the leadership. 
``O'Neill didn't direct his colleagues to do his bidding,'' said Phil 
Sharp (D-IN). ``He entrusted them.''
    The rise of Representative Richard Gephardt, elected in 1976, was 
illustrative. Soon after taking office, the Carter administration had 
discovered that the cost-of-living increases were soaring in a time of 
high inflation and threatening to bankrupt Social Security. The 
Democrats ultimately concluded that a massive hike in the payroll tax 
was the best way to keep the system solvent. To head the Social Security 
Task Force, O'Neill selected the 36-year-old Gephardt, and they pushed 
the bill through the House before the 1978 election season. It passed in 
1977 by a 189 to 163 margin, the largest increase in payroll taxes in 
history--$227 billion over 10 years--but Gephardt and his task force had 
gotten it done. He moved into the leadership's favor and was soon being 
hailed in the press as a force to be reckoned with because of his 
ability to deal with a cross section of House Members.
    O'Neill aide Irv Sprague later wrote a memo to Tip about the task 
force system, saying it triumphed because it ``involved as many people 
as possible and gave them a personal stake in the outcome.''
    ``We have the Policy Committee. We have the Whip Organization 
working. We got the Rules Committee working and we got the Chairmen all 
working together,'' O'Neill told the National Journal. ``They're part 
and parcel of the organization. They're part and parcel of making 
decisions. There are more people in the decisionmaking. That's the way I 
like it and I'm sure that's the way the members like it.''
    It wasn't enough. The Carter years were a political disaster for Tip 
O'Neill's Democrats and justly so. When handing the Democrats control of 
both the White House and the Congress in 1976, the voters had looked to 
the party for competence, resolve, and the promise of national revival. 
Handed the opportunity the Democrats staged a thoroughly miserable 
performance. They had been petty, selfish, and spiteful. They had looked 
beholden to oil companies, the health care industry, and other special 
interests. They had refused to curb their insistent liberal base and 
chosen to fight a destructive and self-indulgent civil war in the 
Presidential primaries. They were intellectually clueless, politically 
inept, and O'Neill stood as the symbol of their failure. I don't know 
how many here remember, but the Republican television commercials showed 
a white-haired burley actor who ran out of gas on a highway. It clicked 
not because it represented just any generic big-city pol, but because it 
lampooned the Speaker of the clownish House in Washington.
    After a fine first year as Speaker with the passage of ethics and 
energy packages, O'Neill's performance had lapsed to adequate in 1978 
and piteous in 1979 and 1980. There were good reasons for the disaster 
and few in Washington were more adept than Tip at deflecting the blame 
toward the White House, the centrifugal effects of congressional reform, 
or the ideological incohesion of his party. But at a time of economical, 
international, and political crisis when his party and countrymen looked 
at Tip, he had failed. His was the party of Tongsun Park and CETA 
[Comprehensive Education and Training Act], of 18 percent inflation and 
gas lines. When they could have been addressing the problem of America's 
economy, the Democrats had spent their time squabbling. The electorate's 
retribution had been just and severe. It was not just that the 
Republicans won--the White House, the Senate and the 33 seats gained in 
the House of Representatives in 1980--it was who won: Ronald Reagan.
    ``Until such time as we nominate a new Presidential candidate you 
are the leader of the Democratic Party as well as the highest public 
official of the party,'' leadership aide Burt Hoffman wrote the Speaker. 
``You are also more than ever the only person in a position to continue 
representing the ideas of justice and compassion.''
    It would be the final battle, the defining historic moment for this 
bruised, old, white-haired guy, and O'Neill knew it. He would sit alone 
in his darkened office brooding over each day's reversals. He would be 
betrayed by captains, scored by old foes, challenged by young rebels in 
his rank. His name and his pride were on the line, but so, more 
importantly, was what he believed. If Tip O'Neill bungled this job, if 
he failed to hold the bridge, the hill, the last foothold, he knew his 
place in history would suffer, but so would Roosevelt's legacy: the 
elderly whose fears of poverty and illness had been eased by Social 
Security and Medicare; the working class kids carrying their families' 
dreams of going to college with the help of Pell grants; the water and 
the air that were getting cleaner and the wilderness preserved from 
development.
    Tip was no saint. Win or lose there would be no canonization of 
Thomas P. O'Neill, Jr. In a lifetime in politics, he'd gouged eyes, 
thrown elbows, bent the law, and befriended rogues and thieves. He could 
be mean and small-minded. But at his core there lay a magnificence of 
spirit, deep compassion, and a rock-hard set of beliefs. He had a sense 
of duty that he refused to abandon for those whom Heaven's grace forgot. 
He would sooner die on the floor of the House or watch his party be 
vanquished and dispersed than desert them.
    ``You know you're right?'' his wife Millie would ask him as she 
adjusted his tie at the door in the morning. ``Yes,'' he would say and 
he knew it. He knew it like he knew the sidewalks of North Cambridge, 
the liturgy of the Sunday Mass, or how to stack a conference committee. 
``Then do your best,'' Millie would say and off he would go. He may not 
have had the looks of a movie star but he had great instincts and sound 
judgment and a joy for life that could match Reagan's charm. And like 
the new President, he had an innocence that had survived many years in a 
cynical game, and given time and exposure, would allow Americans to come 
to love him.
    Indeed, Reagan and O'Neill had much in common. They were broad-brush 
types who liked to joke and never let the facts get in the way of a good 
story. They would take a punch and come back swinging. They prized their 
downtime, loved to be loved, and bore without complaint, or much 
interest in correcting, the liabilities of their parties. They each had 
spectacularly talented staffs. Most important, despite their acting 
talents, they stood out among the sharpies and trimmers in the Nation's 
Capital as men of deep conviction. Each was sustained in much the same 
way by his own distinctive mythology. Reagan was the son of the small-
town Midwest, a lifeguard and radio announcer who had made his way to 
the Golden State and become a wealthy movie star. He revered individual 
liberty, and his icons were the cowboys, the entrepreneurs, the singular 
heroes of sporting fields and war. His speeches never failed to cite the 
American Revolution, which had thrown down the government of a rotten 
tyranny and claimed the freedom and rights of man.
    O'Neill was the product of the East. Of the great crowded cities. He 
reveled in the collectivity of purpose and the fruits of charity, 
neighborhood and fellowship. His was the creed of Honey Fitz and Jim 
Curly, Roosevelt, and the Sermon on the Mount. He, too, revered the 
Founding Fathers--but for the magnificent system of government they had 
built which had proven so adaptable and addressed so many social ills. 
Tip O'Neill versus Ronald Reagan. This was no sophistic debate: these 
were world views clashing--hot lava meeting thundering surf. And good it 
was for the country to have the debate--to stake the claim of a ``more 
perfect union'' against the demand for ``life, liberty, and the pursuit 
of happiness'' once again. History was happening. The heritage of the 
New Deal, a philosophy of governing that had lasted for half a century 
was at stake. Reagan didn't want to trim the sails. He wanted to turn 
the ship around and head back to port. For more than 50 years 
Republicans had argued that the country had taken a horribly wrong turn 
in the thirties, that Roosevelt's social insurance programs and the 
taxes that supported them were seductively undermining the American way: 
breeding lethargy, dependence, and corruption of the spirit. Nor was 
there ambivalence at the other end of Pennsylvania Avenue, in the 
Speaker's lobby.
    As Reagan proved himself so formidable a foe, the Democrats 
scrambled to reinforce their Speaker. Tony Coelho (D-CA), was recruited 
to take over as chairman of the Democratic Congressional Campaign 
Committee, and he raised a lot of money. One of his first acts was to 
put Chris Matthews on the payroll: detached to the Speaker to help, as 
O'Neill put it, with ``the media stuff.'' Once again O'Neill's great 
sense of timing extended to his selection of staff. Leo Diehl was his 
indispensable pal and protector who had notified the wise guys that 
times had changed. Gary Hymel had been a bridge to the southern barons 
and envoy to the pencil press, and he helped Tip run the House when 
O'Neill was majority leader. Kirk O'Donnell was hired in 1977 when the 
post-Watergate era called for a legal counsel with well-honed political 
instincts. Ari Weiss was the Speaker's chief policy analyst. ``I've 
never seen a staff like Tip O'Neill's. There's not even a close 
second,'' said journalist Al Hunt. It said a lot about O'Neill--that he 
was an incredibly secure man.
    Matthews found that O'Neill was self-conscious about his looks, and 
dubious about competing with the movie star in the White House. ``He was 
scared to death of it because it was live television. He was so afraid 
he would say something wrong. He was afraid of being embarrassed. He 
lacked confidence. He was never sure of his looks. He was always talking 
about his cabbage ears and his big nose. He was mean to himself,'' 
Matthews remembered.
    Television news liked simple stories. Reagan was a skilled performer 
and his media advisor, Michael Deaver, and his colleagues were 
exceptionally good at crafting scripted moments in which the President 
could perform. Deaver recalled that cable TV had not yet arrived. You 
could target the three networks and talk to 80 percent of the public. 
O'Neill could never hope to match such superb Reagan moments as the 40th 
anniversary of the D-day landings or the President's rallying address to 
the stunned Nation after the space shuttle Challenger exploded.
    But there was a sturdy journalistic imperative--``get the other side 
of the story''--that provided O'Neill with an opening, as did the 
media's unquenchable thirst for controversy. Reporters from the networks 
and other national news organizations needed a Reagan foil, someone to 
whom they could go and get the other side, and that was a role the 
Speaker could play. But it was a tough, evolutionary process, especially 
for a man who had just endured 3 years of pummeling from the press. 
``You had to beg him to do interviews and when you did your butt was on 
the line. If you strung two bad interviews in a row, you were dead,'' 
Matthews remembered. ``And I wanted desperately to say to him, I let the 
reporters in because I came here to help you become what you can become. 
And the way to do it is to be publicized. And the only way to be 
publicized is to let people write about you and the only way to let them 
write about you is to let them take some shots at you. That's the only 
way to become a figure in American politics. You cannot customize it. 
You cannot come in and tailor it. All you can do is go in, let them see 
who you are and let them make their own judgments.''
    The Speaker, who railed against the Reagan tax bill in July, was a 
far better tailored, scripted and prepared politician than the befuddled 
bear who had opposed the Gramm-Latta budget cuts in May 1981 or who had 
replied, ``What kind of fool do they think I am?'' when House Democrats 
urged him to seek network time to respond to Reagan's triumphant spring 
attack on the Federal budget.
    Said Representative Newt Gingrich, ``If you were to study Tip in his 
last year as Speaker and compare him to the first year as Speaker, you 
saw a man who had learned a great deal about television as the dominant 
medium in his game.'' Democratic pollster Peter Hart remembered, ``At 
the beginning he was the perfect caricature of old-time politics. The 
Republicans took advantage of it. And he was compelled to take a 
position to which he was ill-prepared and ill-equipped, which was the 
voice of the Democratic Party.'' But by 1986 not only was he more 
comfortable with his stature and his feel for the role, but as much as 
the President represented an ideology and a purpose, the public saw that 
Tip represented an ideology and a purpose as well, and it was a purpose 
that as we moved through the eighties, Americans began to see as pretty 
important--that it was an important set of values that this man 
represents. He's not going to allow Congress to cut the safety net or 
the environmental programs or Social Security or education.
    In no small part due to Ronald Reagan, the United States would 
embark on a new entrepreneurial era, claim triumph in the cold war, 
reach giddy new heights of freedom and prosperity, and command both the 
attention and the obligation of greatness at the end of the century. But 
in no small part because of Tip O'Neill, the country would reach that 
pinnacle without leaving its working families and old folks and sick 
kids and multihued ethnic and racial minorities behind. Reagan had 
turned the country in a new direction. The changing world with its 
disorienting pace of economic, scientific, and technological advancement 
would inevitably demand that the mechanisms of the New Deal be 
reexamined and rebuilt. But in 1981 Tip O'Neill drew a line for his 
party and his country and the core of Roosevelt's vision was preserved. 
It was a stirring rear guard action worthy of Horatius at the bridge or 
Kutuzov at the gates of Moscow.
    The final point I'd like to make about the Albert and O'Neill 
speakerships is how many of these changes that were made in this 
period--television, the rise of committees, huge numbers of staff, 
televised sessions of the House--all were seen as liberating, creative 
adjustments by progressives at the time. But they helped bring on the 
end of the Democratic era. The shattering of the seniority system, the 
successful attack upon the old, southern chairmen, the advent of 
television and its effect on the House all helped Republican as well as 
Democratic young turks: Republican names familiar to us now--Jack Kemp, 
Trent Lott, Newt Gingrich. The Democratic reformers had shown the way 
and left it open for a group of real revolutionaries, the young 
Republican entrepreneurs who finally triumphed in 1995 and took back 
control of the House.
    But that's a story for the rest of the day. I'm here to talk about 
Tip O'Neill and to sum up by quoting from Rev. J. Donald Monan's eulogy 
at Tip's funeral. ``Those of us who have lived through the decades since 
the 1930s of dramatic change in the moral dilemmas that modernity 
brings, in the crisis of wars and the threats of war . . . realize that 
Speaker O'Neill's legendary sense of loyalty, either to old friends or 
to God, was no dull or wooden conformity. It [was] a creative fidelity 
to values pledged in his youth that he kept relevant to a world of 
constant change.'' And that, in my opinion, was his greatest genius.
    Mr. HYMEL. Congressman Rostenkowski.
    Mr. ROSTENKOWSKI. I guess what you expect from me today is a 
personal view and, also, a legislative view of Tip O'Neill. I think Tip 
and I had a great deal in common.
    We both came from an urban area. We saw poverty first hand. But, you 
can't look at Tip O'Neill's speakership without first looking at what a 
really unique challenge had been created for him by having Ronald Reagan 
in the White House.
    Reagan was a wonderful public speaker; a classic ``outside'' 
politician who had good sound bites but not creative legislative ideas 
or interest in legislative detail.
    Tip O'Neill was a classic ``inside'' guy. He looked like an old-
fashioned politician. Some people liked that image, some didn't. But, 
there was no avoiding his physical structure. When Tip became the de 
facto Democratic spokesman, it was not an uneven contest. He had a very 
delicate balancing act. President Reagan was tremendously popular and 
the question became how to moderate what he and the Congress were trying 
to do without confronting the President head on.
    In the first context, with the 1981 tax cuts, Democrats foolishly 
got into a bidding war that made things worse than they otherwise would 
have been. A lot of ``blow-dried'' Democrats elected post-Watergate 
thought that O'Neill was the wrong face for the party at that time and 
that it was their turn to govern.
    So, even while Tip tried to present a united Democratic front, he 
was challenged by plotting from within his own party. The fact that 
there never was a public explosion is certainly to Speaker O'Neill's 
credit.
    Unlike today's situation, the committee chairmen in the House, 
people like myself, had a lot of independence. The Speaker couldn't 
order them to do anything because they wouldn't automatically all obey. 
When Newt became Speaker, he centralized power, and was able to do 
things, especially involving the scheduling of legislation in the House 
of Representatives that Tip could never have accomplished.
    Tip just didn't have the powers conferred on Newt. I should know. I 
was appointed chief deputy majority whip by Jim Wright. As a matter of 
fact, Tip didn't like the idea that I was going to be the deputy whip, 
but Jim Wright insisted because of the fact that we had had a hell of a 
fight for majority leader. Leo Diehl, a top O'Neill aide, who was 
orchestrating it with the help of Jimmy Howard from New Jersey and Danny 
Rostenkowski, had worked like the Devil along with people like Tony 
Coelho to get Jim Wright elected majority leader. We had been the ones 
who had talked Jim Wright into running for majority leader. Jim was very 
comfortable on the Public Works Committee and, believe me, made more 
friends in the Congress than anyone. But after the election and Tip's 
ascension to the speakership it was kind of an intimate legislative 
process.
    Tip couldn't command Members to do things the way the Republicans 
have done since. Instead, he had to convince them. Tip would put his arm 
around you and give you one of these, ``Gosh darn, you gotta help me on 
this.'' And, in most instances, Members of Congress would bend to the 
wishes of Tip O'Neill. Tip O'Neill had a great deal of faith in the 
system and he had tremendous respect for the individual legislator's 
ability to govern.
    It was in those days when committee chairmen were very powerful that 
Speaker O'Neill recognized that he came from within that group of 
representatives who wanted their voices to be heard. In contrast to the 
present day leadership authority, O'Neill would wait for the legislative 
process to work and come to the Speaker's office. What he did draw out 
of you was a compelling competition to do the job. If you failed, it'd 
be at dinner that night that he'd say, ``Jesus, you know Rosty, you're 
not doing so well over there.'' And, it would really boil me just like 
it would boil John Dingell or it would boil Jack Brooks.
    Tip O'Neill had the ability to convince a legislator because he was 
what was termed ``a legislator's legislator'' himself. He had come up 
through the ranks and been in the trenches and that, I believe, was the 
secret of the successes we had.
    Certainly O'Neill competed with Ronald Reagan. You've got to 
remember that Ronald Reagan, elected in 1980, was probably one of the 
most popular individuals who ever came to Washington. He broke all 
precedents. He came to Capitol Hill as President-elect, visiting the 
Speaker in the ceremonial office--never been done before. Came to the 
House of Representatives for the State of the Union Message and violated 
House rules by introducing people in the gallery--never done before. It 
was this ``so-called'' warmth that Reagan expressed and brought through 
to television. To his credit, and I just did a C-SPAN show this morning 
about the creation of C-SPAN, during the time of this creation, no one 
was more influential in having C-SPAN in the House of Representatives 
than Tip O'Neill. Tip worked with C-SPAN founder Brian Lamb as hard as 
I've ever seen anyone ever work to accomplish this.
    I've got to admit that I was on the other side of the argument with 
respect to C-SPAN. But, the day that we initiated C-SPAN, you couldn't 
buy a blue shirt in Washington.
    Tip, in my opinion, depended a great deal on staff, depended a great 
deal on information that came through the legislative process, and tried 
to make judgments based on the coalitions which he could put together. 
He was good at it.
    I'll never forget the first day as leadership when Tip; Jim Wright, 
the majority leader; John Brademas, the majority whip; and Danny 
Rostenkowski, chief deputy whip, went to the White House for an 8 a.m. 
Tuesday morning meeting. We were ushered into a small dining room off 
the East Room where then-President Jimmy Carter was hosting a 
``breakfast'' for the leadership. There were little fingertip sandwiches 
and small biscuits and Tip O'Neill looked at Jimmy Carter and said, 
``Jesus, Mr. President, I thought we won the election for crying out 
loud!'' The next Tuesday, and we were there every other Tuesday, you'd 
have thought we were all ``Paul Bunyons'' at breakfast.
    O'Neill, to his credit, came to the speakership at a time when I 
think somebody up there liked us because it was very tough competing 
with Ronald Reagan. I can say this personally. Ronald Reagan as 
President made my job at the Committee on Ways and Means very easy 
because all I had to do was try to bring Ronald Reagan to the middle and 
he'd bring along the Republican votes that were necessary. That, coupled 
with Tip O'Neill's coalitions, made it possible to pass legislation.
    I've so many pleasant personal memories over the years with Tip and 
Millie, with Silvio Conte, with Bob Michel. In summation, just let me 
say this. Last night, I had dinner with Guy Vander Jagt, Bob Michel, 
Leon Panetta, and Marty Russo. I wonder if in 10 years or 8 years, after 
their service, the present majority and minority leaders will get 
together for dinner. It's a sad commentary.
    Mr. HYMEL. Thank you, Congressman.
    Congressman Edwards.
    Mr. EDWARDS. Well, first of all, I want to say that I probably feel 
more comfortable in this room than some of the other people here, like 
Jim Wright, Tom Foley, and Danny Rostenkowski, because we Republicans 
always had to have our conferences in this room because the Democrats 
were meeting on the House floor, so we couldn't use it. So I've spent a 
lot of time in here.
    I can't tell the personal stories about Tip because I wasn't 
involved in the same way that the members of the Democratic Party were, 
but I do have some reflections I'd like to share. I had great respect 
for and friendship with the men who followed Tip as Speakers--men like 
Jim Wright and Tom Foley--but when I came to the House they were just 
``Mr. Chairman'' and every Democrat was Mr. Chairman of something. But 
Tip was ``Mr. Speaker'' and he remained that. It was not only his 
presence and the fact that he was the Speaker when I came to the House 
and the man who swore me in, but he looked, he sounded, he acted the way 
you would expect a leader of the Nation to look and sound and act. He 
was that imposing and that impressive.
    When I teach my classes at the Kennedy School, one of the things I 
emphasize in the very first class period is the word ``passion.'' That 
politics is about passion. Passion is what drives you to get up and do 
the things you have to do to get elected and to go through the very 
tiresome job of actually being a day-to-day legislator. You really have 
to be driven by your beliefs. All politics is passion just like all 
politics is local. And Tip was a very passionate person as those who 
knew him realized. But he was a different kind of politician when he 
first came to the Congress. He was, in fact, the quintessence of a local 
pol.
    He was passionate about issues, but he was passionate about issues 
that mattered to the people in Cambridge and South Boston and the areas 
that he knew. He was not a Massachusetts politician. He was strictly a 
Boston politician, which is a lot different from Brookline or Wellesley 
or Newton. It was inner city. It was neighbors. It was knowing the 
people in the barbershop and the deli and the dry cleaners, and it was a 
very personalized, localized, kind of bring-home-the-bacon politics. So 
he was connected to the local highways and the local hospitals. What he 
did when he came to Congress was to be the voice, the spokesman, for the 
people of his area. Now I didn't realize until I started teaching at 
Harvard that political scientists like to refer to what they call a 
choice between being a ``delegate'' or a ``trustee.'' I had never heard 
those terms before. But in the sense of being a ``delegate,'' somebody 
who really represented the home people, that's what Tip O'Neill's 
politics was about.
    I am reminded of a story about one of my colleagues from Oklahoma, 
Mike Synar, a really fine young man who died all too soon. Mike was once 
interviewed by the New York Times and there was a little flap that 
occurred as to whether Mike was an Oklahoma Congressman or a U.S. 
Congressman from Oklahoma. He, of course, argued that he was a U.S. 
Congressman from Oklahoma, which made people in Oklahoma very unhappy 
because they wanted him to be an Oklahoma Congressman. Well, when he got 
here Tip was a Boston Congressman. He was not a national Congressman in 
that sense. He was very much a local kind of person.
    And then something happened. I've got a photograph that I hope is 
going to be passed out to the tables, something I found as I was going 
through my files. Something happened to Tip that changed his life, that 
changed his speakership, and to a large extent changed the country.
    When Ronald Reagan was elected President, all of a sudden Tip became 
not just the master of the institution which, as Danny said, he ran very 
well by allowing various committee chairs to be powerful in their own 
right. Suddenly, Tip O'Neill became the champion of progressive 
politics. He became the national voice--the passion of the progressive 
politics that had begun with FDR and had continued since and that Ronald 
Reagan threatened.
    What Reagan brought was not only a new vision, but if you were on 
the other side of the aisle, an attempt to really undo a lot of what had 
been done over the previous decade. So Tip O'Neill had thrust upon him 
something he had really not prepared for. He had thrust upon him the job 
of being the last bulwark of liberalism--becoming the champion of the 
forces opposing the Reagan and Bush foreign policy proposals, preserving 
domestic social programs.
    All of a sudden it was Tip not just being in the Speaker's office, 
but taking the floor, taking the microphone, and becoming the voice to 
challenge Ronald Reagan.
    Tip became the Democratic Party, and what happened as a result of 
this was that we had these geniuses over at the National Republican 
Congressional Committee who decided that the way for Republicans to take 
control was to run against Tip, to demonize Tip O'Neill. That's where 
those television spots came from that showed this actor playing Tip and 
characterizing him, and, through him, the Democratic Congress as big, 
fat, and out of control. It turned out that the voters really thought he 
looked a lot more like Santa Claus. The public did not share the 
antipathy toward Tip O'Neill that the Republican Congressional Committee 
had anticipated, and the ad campaign didn't work.
    There was also something else about Tip. I remember Tip, of course, 
as an adversary, as the advocate of what we were trying to change. But 
Tip's word was good. On the one hand, there was the public Republican 
attempt to gain control, and so, those television spots attacking Tip 
O'Neill. But in Republican leadership meetings, we all knew that Tip's 
word was good. He was tough. He was a hard fighter, but he was fair.
    Let me tell a little story. Actually Jim, the story is about you, 
but also there is a lesson here about Tip O'Neill. I got an e-mail 
recently from a political science professor on the West Coast. He said 
he was watching a video of a debate on the House floor and since I was 
very involved in that debate, he wanted my input about what had 
happened. Jim Wright, who was then the Speaker, announced at the end of 
the vote--Republicans, of course, were winning the vote--that he was 
going to keep the vote open so people who had not yet voted could cast 
their votes or people who wanted to change their votes could change 
their votes. As it happened, of course, Jim Wright and his team being 
very good at this, before time had run out, the Democrats were in the 
lead on the vote. Then the gavel came down and the Democrats had won.
    The political scientist wrote to me and said, ``I don't understand 
what happened. The Speaker announced that he was going to keep the vote 
open for anybody who wanted to change their votes, so why didn't you 
Republicans do the same thing and say you wanted to continue this a 
little longer while you tried to change people's minds.''
    So I wrote him back and said, ``I don't think you understood. Jim 
Wright was the Speaker. He had the gavel. He could determine when the 
vote was over.'' The political scientist wrote back to me again and 
said, ``Oh, I understand now. You didn't trust Jim Wright.'' And I wrote 
back and said, ``No, you don't understand. We trusted Jim Wright. He is 
a very honest, decent man, who believed passionately that what he was 
doing was good for the country and that what we were doing was bad for 
the country. And he would do everything that he could within the rules, 
within the proper procedures of the House, to prevail on a cause he 
thought was important.''
    That, I think, is not only what Jim did, but it's also what Tip did. 
What you always knew was that Tip O'Neill could be a tough adversary. 
When we wanted to give Special Orders and make the whole world think we 
were speaking to the entire Congress, he would order the TV cameras to 
pan the Congress and show that we were giving these great orations to 
nobody in particular except a couple of our Members and our staff. So 
Tip was a very tough fighter, but he was always fair. He was always 
decent. He was dignified and people on the Republican side liked him a 
lot--we opposed him, but liked him a lot.
    When he died, people said, ``Well, he was one of a kind. There will 
never be another like Tip O'Neill.'' And I wrote a newspaper column in 
which I said, I hoped that was not true. It would be a terrible loss to 
America if there was never another like Tip O'Neill.
    Mr. HYMEL. Thank you, Congressman. Before we take questions I'd like 
to summarize by saying again that Tip ruled by anecdote and humor, but 
there are four things he should be remembered for and only one has been 
mentioned. First, Tip brought television to the House. A lot of 
discussion had gone on before, and there was a lot of running up and 
down hills by Members and staff. When he became Speaker he said, ``Turn 
on the TV cameras.'' It was that simple and, of course, we wouldn't have 
C-SPAN today if it wasn't for that decision which he made by himself.
    Tip also destroyed the seniority system. One time in the Democratic 
Caucus at the beginning of a Congress, we were doing reforms and Tip 
offered an amendment that you could get a vote on a committee chairman 
if one-fifth of the caucus wanted it. Before that, it was automatic that 
the most senior person on the committee became the chairman--no 
exceptions. Well, Tip's motion passed because you could always get one-
fifth of the Members. Two years later, three chairmen were thrown out. 
Now, the committee leadership always had to run in the whole caucus. 
Seniority didn't mean as much anymore. So Tip was responsible for 
destroying the seniority system.
    A third thing he did was eliminate the unrecorded teller vote. Some 
of the oldtimers might remember that. Just like in the British 
Parliament today, there was a procedure where Members walked through 
lines and were counted and then the majority decided whether an 
amendment wins or loses. Well, Tip and Charlie Gubser, a Republican from 
California, had an amendment that abolished that procedure.
    The other thing was a code of ethics. Tip established a commission 
to write a code of ethics and Representative Dave Obey told me when 
Members came to Tip and said, ``Tip, we have two versions--kind of a 
soft one and a tough one. What do we go with?'' Tip said, ``The tough 
one.'' Tip was linking that with a pay raise. By the way, the ethics 
code did go through and it still exists today. So with that, I'd like to 
ask the first question, if you don't mind, of Congressman Rostenkowski. 
Please embroider a little bit on why would a Member of Congress, who has 
a constituency and his own mind made up, and Tip would come over and put 
that big arm around him and say, ``Can't you help us like a good 
fella?'' And that's all he would say. Why would you then vote with Tip 
O'Neill?
    Mr. ROSTENKOWSKI. Well, we have to set the stage for that. We did 
have a cushion. We had a lot more Democrats for a period of time, 
certainly with Lyndon Johnson.
    President Johnson could really work the room when it came to a whip 
count. I think Tip credited Tom Foley and Danny Rostenkowski as probably 
his best whip counters. Once you found out that a certain Member had a 
problem with a particular vote, then you tried to figure out why. Was it 
because he wanted something for his district, say a bridge? Was it 
because he was mistreated by a chairman? Tip would do the groundwork and 
then walk over the rail on the House floor and whisper in that 
particular Member's ear, ``We're going to solve your problem. Now come 
on, you've got to help us here. I mean, this is a Democratic vote. It 
would be embarrassing for us not to pass it.'' And, with this big arm 
around you, you'd cave. He had a natural, warm ability.
    There are so many stories I could tell you about Tip as a person. 
Tip O'Neill would enter a room with his ``God love you, darlin','' all 
of a sudden, he'd take over the party. He was an empowering figure with 
tremendous warmth. Every Democratic congressional campaign dinner, it 
was Tip O'Neill's party, and you'd never leave that dinner without the 
room joining him in singing the tune, ``Apple Blossom Time'' to his 
lovely wife Millie. It was just a warm personality.
    Mr. HYMEL. Thank you. Do we have any questions from the audience?
    Mr. ROSTENKOWSKI. If I may I'd like to say one thing in response to 
what my colleague has just pointed out. Over the years, Tip O'Neill 
formed lasting friendships. One way he did this was that he honestly 
believed that Members of Congress should visit overseas and that we 
should have a legislative exchange with other countries. The most 
outstanding congressional delegation trip that Tip O'Neill organized and 
took was the one to Russia.
    We were the first to be exposed to Gorbachev. Silvio Conte, myself, 
Bob Michel, and Tip O'Neill sat with Mikhail Gorbachev. At that meeting 
Mikhail Gorbachev suggested that we do this more often. You ought to 
come here and visit us; we ought to come and visit you. We reported this 
to President Reagan upon our return, and we told him we felt if there 
was anybody in the leadership of the Soviet Union who was looking for 
democracy, it might well be Mikhail Gorbachev. It was after that 
congressional trip, which Tip O'Neill chaired, that we started to see a 
so-called melting of the Iron Curtain. You can describe congressional 
delegation visits however you want, but they are a very important 
instrument in our democracy and friendship with other nations. Thank 
you.
    Mr. HYMEL. Anyone? Yes?
    Question. Is there anyone in the House today like Speaker O'Neill?
    Mr. ROSTENKOWSKI. The changing of the House of Representatives has 
come so swiftly since I left it. I'm really not as close to the 
membership as I'd like to be. I just don't know of anyone who has the 
chemistry that Tip O'Neill had. Tip O'Neill, even as a liberal, had the 
unique capacity to get votes from the southern Members of the Congress. 
That's why he was able to work so well with people with very different 
backgrounds, like Jim Wright.
    With respect to electing Jim Wright the majority leader, Tip O'Neill 
stayed as far away from that election as he possibly could because we 
had Majority Whip John McFall, we had Representative Dick Bolling, we 
had Representative Phil Burton in the race. Our plan was to get all the 
McFall votes for Jim Wright on the second count. Tip would stay away 
from that and, I think to his credit, when Jim Wright was elected the 
majority leader, he was relieved that he had as stable an individual as 
Jim Wright for the position. I don't know of anyone like Tip today, and 
I don't know that the times are the same now as they were then. There's 
a lot of hate in the air in the House of Representatives and that's a 
sad thing.
    Mr. HYMEL. Congressman Edwards.
    Mr. EDWARDS. I was going to make the same point that Danny did at 
the very end. I don't know the Democratic Members as well as I should 
and I'm not sure that the times have changed for the better, but I think 
it would be very hard for somebody with Tip's approach to bringing 
people together and to lining up votes to succeed today. The balance 
between the two parties is very close. Since 1980, there has been more 
and more of a sharp divide between what the Democrats want to achieve 
and what the Republicans want to achieve, so I'm not sure that's exactly 
what's called for at this time.
    But if I can tell a little story here. I went by to see David Obey, 
who was chairman of the subcommittee of which I was the ranking member--
the Foreign Operations Subcommittee on Appropriations. I've always liked 
Dave, and we were sitting and talking and he said to me, ``Mickey, it's 
not the same anymore. They don't talk to us. They don't let us in. They 
don't let us in on the decisions. It's all very partisan.'' And I said, 
``No, Dave it's not different. You just weren't in the minority then.''
    Mr. HYMEL. Jack, you want to respond?
    Mr. FARRELL. I asked that question of Mike McCurry, who was then the 
press secretary for President Clinton. Mike's theory at that time was it 
would not happen again until conditions were such that ``all politics is 
local'' was again important. You need politicians coming to Washington 
whose basic connection with the voters was on the level of providing a 
winter coat, or that had a gut feeling for what people were thinking. 
And Mike said the Democratic Party is never going to be that Democratic 
Party again until the day that we actually get together and meet at 
bars, or we go out and we do car washes to raise money, like the Kiwanis 
Club, or you bring it down once again to the party of $50 contributions.
    So I would never say that Howard Dean has any kind of personality 
like Tip O'Neill's. I don't know what it is that Howard Dean has tapped 
out there in the country with his Internet fundraising, with the ``Move 
On'' phenomenon, but it's interesting to me that what Mike forecast has 
evolved from out of nowhere. Progressives on that side of the Democratic 
Party are getting together and actually finding that it reinforces their 
values, and they feel that they have a voice by doing this kind of 
small-dollar fundraising that is coming back.
    And for Democrats, it may be interesting to know that any Republican 
fundraiser will tell you that they've had just huge success with small 
donors and with making average people feel part of the cause. Whether or 
not that would ever produce somebody of the kind of charismatic 
personality of Tip would just be a roll of the dice.
    Mr. HYMEL. Thank you Jack. One more thing from Congressman 
Rostenkowski. That will wrap it up.
    Mr. ROSTENKOWSKI. I don't mean to say to you that I believe Tip 
O'Neill was totally unique. It was the time and I think also that Tip 
was blessed with the fact that he had a Bob Michel as minority leader. 
Because, from the day that we opened the session, we were legislators 
and it was not a sin to compromise. If you compromised and you weren't 
satisfied with all you got in the bill, you were coming back next year. 
You were going to get a little more next year.
    Those of us who had programs, and Tip O'Neill had programs, were 
patient. We knew eventually that the social change would come. I believe 
that had Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton listened the first year that 
they initiated comprehensive health reform and done it incrementally, we 
would today have had all we need as opposed to the dissent that's taking 
place today in both the energy and the health bills.
    Mr. HYMEL. Thank you very much for your attention.