SYMPOSIA

Rail Breakout Session - Panel Member Participants

Patrick Sullivan - Session Chairperson / Discussion Moderator
Tom Peacock - American Public Transportation Association {APTA}
Dave Currie - Bach-Simpson Corporation {BSC}
George Scerbo - Federal Railroad Administration {FRA}
Gregory L. Lowe - Norfolk Southern Corporation {NS}

Minutes of the Session

• Call to Order by the Session Chairperson
• Safety Briefing
• Panel Member Introductions and Biographical Summaries
• Panel Member PowerPoint® Presentations (see Proceedings publication)
• Questions and Answers:   [As the minutes for the Rail Breakout Session were recorded by hand-written notations only, this report is not a transcription of the discussion, but rather provides only the essence of the question asked and the response provided. Due to the occasional simultaneous interjection of multiple questions and answers, not all questions and answers were recorded.]
  1. Placed to / response provided by the FRA representative:

  Q: What will the new fire safety standard requirements be?
  A: As the Rulemaking effort is still in process, no response can be offered at this time. The Rulemaking effort is prefaced by the Rail Safety Advisory Committee {RSAC} process, which is supported by participants in industry, labor, interested parties, and government. RSAC activities are typically reported in the NPRM, or other periodic announcements in the Federal Register.

  Q: What did the RSAC process suggest?
  A: See the RSAC PowerPoint® slide.

  Q: In the operation of a 64-parameter [locomotive] recorder, if one channel goes down, should the unit be taken out of service?
  A: Probably not, but unable to officially respond at this time due to the Rulemaking effort is still in process (see Q 1, above); also see 49 CFR 229.135.

  Q: Will the anticipated Rulemaking affect the operation of an analog recorder?
  A: It is anticipated that the Rulemaking will address same.

  Q: For [locomotive] units that traverse an international border (Canada specifically mentioned), are there any compliance issues anticipated with the recorders?
  A: Significant issues are not anticipated, as both the CN and CP [railroads] are RSAC participants.

  2. Placed to / response provided by the APTA representative:

  Q: BART reported this morning [in a technical session] that they have recorders; is this new information?
  A: BART is in transition, thus coming on-line. Most transit systems buy recorder systems for maintenance purposes, not for accident reconstruction.

  Q: Does the definition for light-rail apply to the FRA?
  A: Yes.

  Q: On transit lines, what's the requirement for self-test?
  A: 60-120 days.

  Q: What are transit systems required to record?
  A: Nothing.

  Q: Most [heavy-rail operators] have policies and procedures [on recorders] in place beforehand; does light-rail follow [this philosophy]?
  A: Yes; lessons-learned from heavy-rail are being applied to transit.

  3. Placed to / response provided by the NS representative:

  The Q&A segment was prefaced by showing a brief video of a recent grade crossing collision (in Alabama), as recorded by a locomotive-mounted "Rail view System" on-board audio/video camera (through the cab windshield).

  Q: [With this system] are other recorder parameters desired?
  A: Yes, remote communication / transmission of health monitoring status with each RailView recorder.

  Q: Would [NS] share your videos with other railroads?
  A: Yes, to date we have provided video/audio information for UPRR, BNSF and KCS. The information was downloaded from incidents which occurred on their respective roads.

  Q: Would it be useful to if the automatic brake was applied?
  A: We currently have PC (power control) and we may add other parameters in the future. The RailView recorder is separate from the event recorder. Together we can look at information provided from both.

  Q: Who is the supplier of this system; was it organized in-house, or is it contracted?
  A: SAIC [which also attended this TopTec® , and maintained an informational product display in the Lobby], which NS closely worked with to develop and refine the system.

  Q: Would there be an advantage to placing a camera on the brakeman's windshield [to afford a wider-angle view]?
  A: We are looking at new lens technology and soon will begin testing a color camera in the field.

  Q: Does NS operate [locomotives] on the mainline with long-hood forward; would this present viewing problems for a windshield mounted camera?
  A: Yes it would, although NS presently operates mostly newer equipment that are configured as short-hood forward, although some older units (from a predecessor road) operate in the opposite direction but they are not fitted with cameras.

  Q: For a multiple unit locomotive consist, which unit(s) would be set to record?
  A: All short-hood forward facing units will record, although sometimes not all units have a camera.

  Q: For a multiple unit locomotive consist, is an attempt made to place the camera equipped units in the lead?
  A: Our T&E group works to assemble trains with RailView equipped locomotives in the lead of the consist.

  Q: What is the camera recording [image] frame rate?
  A: The camera can be set at any framing rate, but they are typically set at 4 frames per second.

  Q: Is it a reliable system?
  A: Yes.

  Q: Why mount the audio microphone in the air compartment?
  A: We have worked together with the various labor organizations to find a location that provides the data we need and offers the crew privacy. Our testing showed the best location for all concerned would be in the air compartment, where we pick up the bell and the horn as well as other useful sounds.

  4. Placed to / response provided by the BSC representative:

  Q: If a data source is checked and the problem is not evident, what's checked next? .the sensors?
  A: Yes, but also will typically check the logical circuits.

  Q: How often is the wheel diameter calibration checked?
  A: That's up to the operator, although our experience has been units are usually within 1-2% accurate, although the calibration will be routinely check in cases of accident investigation.

  Q: What's the maximum percent error of new to worn wheels?
  A: That's determined by the operator's equipment.

  Q: Do all of your recorders meet IEEE specifications?
  A: New units, yes.

  Q: Are all other recorder suppliers made in accordance with IEEE specifications?
  A: No.

  Q: Are [Amtrak] Acela locomotives fitted with audio recorders in the cab?
  A: [Response by the panel] yes.

  Q: Is there a growing interest in way-side recorders?
  A: It is not frequently seen, but it is growing; there's currently video and audio [at some locations] on the UP and CNIC, video on some grade crossings in northern IL, and NS is spot applying.

  Q: When did the first recorders of some kind see use?
  A: [Response by the panel] speed-tapes were originally employed in the steam era; the 1930's "pen recorders" also were used.

Session formal discussion concluded about 3:30 pm, which was followed thereafter by informal discussion among attendees, whereupon the Session adjourned about 4:00 pm.

Notes of this Session, which have been review and commented by the Rail Breakout Session - Guest Participants, were compiled by: Richard M. Downs, Jr., Mechanical Engineer (Crashworthiness), NTSB