UNITED STATES COMMISSION ON SECURITY AND COOPERATION IN EUROPE
(HELSINKI
COMMISSION) HOLDS HEARING: "A PARLIAMENTARY PERSPECTIVE
ON SECURITY AND
COOPERATION IN TODAY'S EUROPE"
OCTOBER 18, 2007
COMMISSIONERS:
REP. ALCEE L. HASTINGS, D-FLA., CHAIRMAN
REP. LOUISE M. SLAUGHTER, D-N.Y.
REP. MIKE MCINTYRE, D-N.C.
REP. HILDA L. SOLIS, D-CALIF.
REP. G.K. BUTTERFIELD, D-N.C.
REP. CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, R-N.J.
REP. ROBERT B. ADERHOLT, R-ALA.
REP. MIKE PENCE, R-IND.
REP. JOSEPH R. PITTS, R-PENN.
SEN. BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, D-MD., CO-CHAIRMAN
SEN. CHRISTOPHER J. DODD,
D-CONN.
SEN. RUSSELL D. FEINGOLD, D-WIS.
SEN. HILLARY RODHAM
CLINTON, D-N.Y.
SEN. JOHN F. KERRY, D-MASS.
SEN. SAM
BROWNBACK, R-KAN.
SEN. GORDON H. SMITH, R-ORE.
SEN. SAXBY
CHAMBLISS, R-GA.
SEN. RICHARD BURR, R-N.C.
WITNESSES/PANELISTS:
GORAN LENNMARKER
PRESIDENT,
PARLIAMENTARY ASSEMBLY OF THE ORGANIZATION
FOR SECURITY AND COOPERATION IN EUROPE AND CHINA
[The
hearing was held at 9:30 A.M. in Room B-318 of the
Rayburn House Office
Building, Washington, D.C., Congressman Alcee L. Hastings
(D-FL), Chairman of
the Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe (U.S.
Helsinki
Commission), moderating.]
[*]
HASTINGS: Well, it's 9:30 by the clock,
Mr. President, and in an effort
to make sure that we are expeditious, I'd like
to convene this morning's
hearing.
And this morning we're going to hear
a parliamentary perspective on
security and cooperation in Europe. Our
witness is a personal friend of mine,
Goran Lennmarker, a Swedish
parliamentarian and chairman of the Foreign Affairs
Committee in the Riksdag,
as well as my successor as president of the OSCE
Parliamentary Assembly.
While the role of parliamentarian in the Helsinki process goes back almost
to
the beginning with the creation of the Helsinki Commission that I think our
secretary general knows an awful lot about, the U.S. Congress has played an
enormous role in shaping U.S. OSCE policy while combining regional and
diplomatic expertise with the political capital members of Congress have.
Over the years many countries expressed interest in emulating the
commission
in their own national parliaments, but the creation of the 320-member
OSCE
Parliamentary Assembly has served a similar purpose. It has created groups
within parliaments who are knowledgeable about OSCE issues and willing to keep
the diplomats moving forward.
As we see today, however, these issues are
not necessarily easy.
Commissioner Solis, please come up.
The
challenges in U.S. and European relations with Russia are growing, for
example, while Russia's internal development is a cause for deep concern.
Numerous local and regional conflicts which erupted in the 90s continue to
simmer. People continue to suffer the effects of these conflicts today,
although they are rarely noticed, given the absence of widespread violence. The
lives and well being of more people are at risk if political solutions are not
found.
In December, what many considered the last open question in the
Balkans --
the status of Kosovo -- is expected to be answered. Unfortunately,
there
continues to be disagreement on what the answer should be, creating
increased
instability at a time when the whole region should be working on
European
integration.
Despite their freely undertaken OSCE commitments,
many OSCE states are
behind in their democratic development and fail to
respect basic human rights.
Belarus comes to mind, Mr. President, along with
some countries of Central Asia.
On a wider scale, we continue to see
manifestations of anti-Semitism, racism and
other forms of hatred and
intolerance.
And, of course, as we well know here in the United States,
there are the
challenges of protecting civil liberties and basic human rights
at the same time
we fight terrorism. As our witness today is aware, the
president of the Belgian
senate, our colleague Ann Marie Lizin, testified
before this commission earlier
this year about her investigation of the U.S.
detention center at Guantanamo
Bay.
Parliamentarians have an
unquestionable role to play in responding to
these issues. They know the
workings of democracy and the threats democracy
faces. They deal with people
and have an understanding of how a society works.
And through the OSCE
Parliamentary Assembly and similar fora, they pool their
experience and
expertise to make Europe, the wider OSCE region and the world a
better place.
As we know, governments often resent parliamentarians holding them
accountable, and diplomats can be very much like the governments they represent.
As a result, there are institutional issues that come up in the OSCE,
including
the role of the OSCE Parliamentary Assembly, that unfortunately
sidetrack us
from real issues like the holding of free and fair elections,
combating
corruption or responding to conflict.
I know that our witness
today, my good friend Goran Lennmarker, will be
addressing these questions
regarding the situation in various parts of the OSCE
region, as well as within
the organization, and I very much look forward to
hearing his views.
Before we turn to you, President Lennmarker, I'd like for the co-chairman
of
the commission, my good friend and used-to-be House of Representatives
colleague Senator Cardin...
CARDIN: Mr. Chairman, it's good to be back at
the House. It's good to be
back in this committee, where I spent many, many
hours. This is one of the
subcommittee rooms of the Ways and Means Committee,
and I spent many an hour in
this room, so it's nice to be back.
President Lennmarker, thank you for being here, but more importantly,
thank
you for your leadership in the OSCE Parliamentary Assembly. You are a
very
busy parliamentarian with very important responsibilities in your country,
and
yet you take time to lead the OSCE Parliamentary Assembly. And I just
really
want to thank you personally for that.
I felt the same with President
Hastings and his commitment to
international issues. I think it's just so
important. We all have so much
responsibility in our own country, but what
you're doing in trying to make the
world a little bit smaller and the
effectiveness of the OSCE Parliamentary
Assembly to me is extremely important,
and I thank you for your commitment.
It's nice to have Spencer Oliver
back. Spencer, as you know, started as a
staff person here on the Hill, and
we're very proud of his work in creating the
OSCE Parliamentary Assembly as a
way in which parliamentarians can have major
impact on legal issues. So we're
just very proud.
This is my 21st year in the United States Congress, and I
started my first
year working on the OSCE Commission, because I thought it was
important -- the
Helsinki Commission and the work that it did. And shortly
after coming to
Congress, I became a commissioner and worked on the Helsinki
Commission issues.
I'm very proud of what role the OSCE has played in the
human rights
dimension, on the economic and environmental dimension, and also
on the security
dimension. It's had major impact on getting Soviet Jews out
of the Soviet
Union. It had major impacts on initiating legislation in our
states to deal
with human trafficking -- more recently, in dealing with the
problems in anti-
Semitism and discrimination issues and dealing with
protecting the rights of the
Roma population throughout the many countries in
Europe. And the list goes on
and on.
And I'm proud of the work that
we've done in helping countries fight
corruption within their own countries
and leading them to democracy. I'm proud
of the role that our commission has
played in initiating many of these matters,
working with our friends from
Europe.
It's been a good run. We've gotten a lot of things done, and the
OSCE
Parliamentary Assembly can be very proud of its important role within
OSCE and
within each of our individual states.
I had the opportunity, as
you know, to chair the second committee, which I
found very rewarding, because
I think the economic and environmental basket
doesn't quite get the same
attention as the human rights dimension or security
dimensions. And we were
able to help countries that were really struggling in
dealing with the
economic issues.
I think challenges for the future in dealing with
corruption and dealing
with energy are going to be critical issues that we
have to confront in the OSCE
region. But I'm particularly pleased to have you
here, because I do think, as I
told you before the hearing started, we really
need to look at the challenges
facing the OSCE.
I am very concerned
about the bureaucracy in Vienna. I think it's become
way too bureaucratic.
We need to get our capitals more directly involved in the
work of OSCE. I
worry about what would be the bureaucracy in Vienna's view of
the
Parliamentary Assembly. I worry about it, because I think the Parliamentary
Assembly is a critical part of the OSCE.
Parliamentarians have a unique
perspective. I've seen the struggle on
election monitoring and think that was
an area where we spent an awful lot of
energy in order to protect something
that's very, very important and why we
aren't all working together in a more
effective manner.
So I hope that this will be part of today's hearing,
planning strategies
to make sure that we're effective in the future, because I
do think for the
member states and, quite frankly, beyond the member states --
what we're doing
with our Mediterranean dimension has been very important
outside of the OSCE
states itself -- that we present a model that could be
used internationally to
help move understanding and cooperation so that we
have a safer world and more
prosperous world for all the citizens.
And I
think we play a major role in that, and I'm just proud to be part of
the
Helsinki Commission and welcome you here to Washington.
HASTINGS: Thank
you very much, Senator.
Commissioner Solis, the president's special
representative.
SOLIS: Thank you very much, Chairman Hastings and also
Co-chairman
Cardin. It's a real pleasure to be here in this capacity now, and
I especially
want to welcome Mr. Lennmarker and, obviously, our good friend
Mr. Oliver.
I am very grateful for the position that you have asked me to
serve in in
the migration area. Immigration, as you know, is a very, very
troubling and
controversial, but very important issue that we're facing not
only here in the
United States, but obviously in all parts of the world.
And I just came from another briefing regarding Iraq and the refugee
situation
there that bordering states in the Mediterranean are faced with. So
I'm sure
that we're going to be learning about the role that the United States
will be
playing in helping to transition those refugees and asylum refugees as
well.
So I'm sure that we're going to be able to shed a lot of light on that,
And I really appreciate all the work that you have done and look forward
to
hearing your report, and I'm looking forward to attending our meeting next
year. And I'm very excited about the enthusiasm and the spirit of OSCE and what
it represents.
I think for someone like myself who comes from a state in
California that
is viewed in some cases as progressive, we have a lot that we
can share -- our
ideas with other members of the various parliaments that are
going to be
represented.
This week there is a delegation of women from
the Congress who are going
to be visiting parliamentarians in Europe to talk
about women's health issues,
teenage issues and juvenile issues. So that's
another aspect that I hope to
share my position as the representative for
youth to talk about what we're
trying to do in the States, but also as a
member of the Helsinki Commission.
So welcome, and thank you very much.
HASTINGS: Thank you, Commissioner Solis.
Commissioner McIntyre?
MCINTYRE: Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman.
And what a pleasure it is to
be able to have each of you gentlemen here
with us today.
I'm especially
pleased that, Mr. Lennmarker, you and I were together in
February in Vienna at
the midwinter meeting, and thank you for the leadership
you had there and the
excellent planning that we saw resulted in the meeting
that we had in Kiev
this July in the Ukraine and the leadership that you've
exhibited throughout
the time that you've given your wonderful service to OSCE
and to the member
nations and in fact how that has been a blessing in the work
of OSCE.
Your work and leadership has been excellent. It's been energetic. It's
been
very efficient. And I think those are the simplest, but the most dynamic
ways
to describe your leadership and I greatly appreciate the leadership that
you've given. It's always been fair, and I've always enjoyed working with you
and working under your leadership during my service on this commission.
Spencer, I'd also like to say thank you for being here today and for your
leadership. We're very proud of the commitments you have and especially enjoyed
the time that we spent with you also in the Ukraine recently. It's great to
have both of you gentlemen here with us today. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr.
Chairman.
HASTINGS: Thank you very much.
President Lennmarker? Or
as we are fond of saying in the Assembly, you
have the floor.
LENNMARKER: Thank you, my dear friend Alcee Hastings, president emeritus
of
the Parliamentary Assembly of the OSCE. Thank you for the nice words from
all
of you. Could I first say it is a great pleasure and a deep honor to be
here
in the Helsinki Commission of the U.S. Congress?
And I would like to thank
the members of the commission -- certainly, the
president, Mr. Hastings,
president emeritus of our organization and also a very
active emeritus, I
might say. Usually, emeritus means that you lean back
sometimes. That is not
for Alcee Hastings. He continues to contribute very
valuably to our work.
And also to the co-chair, Senator Cardin -- nice to see you. And you also
have contributed to the Parliamentary Assembly through the work in the committee
that you chaired.
Ms. Solis, I'm glad to see you here. You will have a
tough time, I can
tell you, when you are a representative of migration, which
is a hot topic -- a
hot topic in all parliaments, I can tell you, in Europe,
and you have the same,
of course, in your country -- because it's a
contentious issue. It's an area
where perhaps no body I saw is extremely
successful. We are more and less
failures sometimes, I say. Some are less
failures than others.
And Mr. McIntyre, I appreciate very much working with
you and look
forward, and you also climb on those ladders in our organization,
because we
need a strong U.S. participation in those. That's extremely
important, because
our organization is focusing on the wider Europe. But its
very value is in its
membership from the United States -- and Canada, I would
add.
We won't forget that we are 56 countries. We are about half of the
world
economy. We are one-third of the land surface of the globe. We are
about one-
fifth -- a little less nowadays -- of the population of the globe in
the 56
countries. And certainly their focus on the OSCE area, particularly on
the
wider Europe, is extremely important.
If you look at Europe -- and I
chose the title "Whole and Free, because I
think that is a value that we share
over the Atlantic -- I think that if you
compared it with what happened in
your country a long time ago now when you
built your country, I would say that
what we see in Europe today is that coming
today of the European continent.
The fall of the Berlin Wall was perhaps like when you went over the
Mississippi once -- the divide there going to the west. We are going to the
east in a way. So the Berlin Wall was perhaps like the arc in St. Louis,
showing the way in for the country.
And I would say that you coming from
California -- the Pacific of Europe
is perhaps the Black Sea, while the
European integration we go on further. We
are at 54 countries in the wider
Europe, and 23 of them are new countries. They
didn't exist as independent
countries 20 years ago. Forty percent of the
members in our Parliamentary
Assembly were not national parliaments that
recently. And I think that shows
the construction that we are in Europe.
I would say that essentially
Europe is on its right track, because if you
look back in history, Europe has
usually been the source of problems for itself
and also for other continents.
And I don't wish to say that in the United
States Congress that certainly the
United States had to pay a lot throughout the
last century for helping Europe
to sort out the mess that we have done in Europe
-- and beyond Europe even.
Now Europe certainly is, I would say, in a situation where I guess we
would
be able to construct a whole and free continent. We are not there yet,
but
there have been enormous gains throughout the last decade. They are more
democratic than ever before. There is less oppression than ever before. It's
more prosperous than ever before.
I would particularly say that the
eastern half of Europe is catching up --
sometimes rather rapidly. Coming out
of dictatorship is not that easy -- to
build a modern democracy in a modern
functioning economy, taking in, of course,
all the problems that you have with
members of the former regimes, trying to
accommodate them.
And we are
certainly more peaceful after the battles that we have had. I
just mentioned
the word "Srebrenica," which in Europe, of course, gives a bitter
shame that
we were not able to do that.
Oh, it's nice to see you, Congressman. Good
to see you. We know how it
is in Parliament.
So I would say against
that background, Europe is doing pretty well. I
say this because I think it's
important, because I otherwise will focus on
problems, and when you focus on
problems, of course, you take on those areas
which are not functioning that
well. Could I say that?
The way we build our Europe is on two very
important pillars. One is
about values. It's a value-based work in Europe,
where we agree on principles
that are there. And the other is to have strong
organization.
OSCE is one of those strong organizations that needs to be
there to see to
it that you don't only have values that are all there on
paper, but also values
that are followed by the member countries -- not only
pretend to follow values,
but also actually doing these. And I think this is
extremely important to build
our European continent in that way.
These
54 countries have 880 million -- nearly three times as big as the
United
States population-wise. It's, as I said, a rapidly growing continent
economically, and we now have to focus, I think, on the things that we need to
do before we reach the goal of a whole and free continent.
One thing, of
course, is a frozen conflict. I hate the word "frozen
conflict" because it
implies that you can live with a conflict. It is not so.
It is a price paid
for these conflicts constantly day by day. People are
killed. If I take the
one that I have been deeply engaged in and I'm not going
to call that
conflict, people die. Young people are killed along the line of
contact. A
shepherd goes after straying sheep, for example, that trample on a
land mine,
and a catastrophe is caused by that.
We need to see at least that we not
only focus on the frozen conflict, but
we also deliver results. If I just
look at the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict, I
would say that the three co-chairman
of the Minsk Group have done a really good
job. One of those is, as you know,
from the United States, together with France
and Russia. Now it's up to the
leadership of the two countries to be able to
sign on a solution, which I
think is a good solution for the two countries.
But I also say that the
three areas in Europe where a lot of work still
needs to be done is the
western Balkans, the six or the six-plus countries, the
plus being Kosovo that
is not yet part of NATO EU stabilized Europe, so to say,
and had recent
conflict, as you remember, in the 1990s, both Srebrenica that
was, in a way,
the symbolic catastrophe of that region, and accordingly, the
Kosovo campaign
if you go back to the spring of 1999.
There is a tremendous work done
there, not least by the OSCE. We have
missions over there. I've been
traveling by car, I can tell you, throughout
these countries to see the
missions and to see the work that is done there. And
there you see the
strength of the OSCE. I must really tell you that they're
doing an enormous
job on the ground. And we see that.
I can tell you one example that we
were going to wind down one of the
missions in Croatia, because Croatia is in
the process of joining NATO and EU.
But the work done by the OSCE is so
important that they could not be replaced by
someone else. Now we see even
the Croatians say that perhaps we should stay on
with this type of OSCE work
on the ground.
This reflects some return of refugees and attention for
refugees. And
also when it comes to the Hague Tribunal, the lesser crimes are
dealt within the
national system, not in the Hague Tribunal. These are just
an example.
The other is the Black Sea area -- as I said, the Pacific of
Europe, if I
make the parallel with the United States expansion in the 19th
century. And I
think that it is important to see that Ukraine, Turkey into
the European Union,
which I strongly, strongly support, and the countries of
southern Caucasus --
the three of them and Moldavia, a country that is usually
forgotten, because
it's rather small, but an important one.
Barons (ph)
need to see that the OSCE, which it has a (inaudible), see
that we support the
democracy, that we support the independent sovereignty work.
Well, let's
finally come to the Central Asian countries, the five
countries that are in a
difficult geographical position. They are landlocked,
all of them -- the
Caspian Sea is really not a sea, but more a salty lake -- and
they have come
out of a tradition of dictatorship and never been independent
countries.
And I want to underline that, because this is tough to build a modern,
functioning democracy when you come out of such a situation. And we certainly
would wish to see much more engagement when it comes to Central Asia. It will
be a much longer journey.
When I talk to my Baltic friends -- if we only
look at Lithuania, they'll
say that yes, we also came out of dictatorship, but
we had democratic neighbors,
had strong democratic countries in our
neighborhood. That is not so in Central
Asia. That's why I particularly want
to emphasize engagement in Central Asia.
For something, I appointed a
special representative there, a colleague
from Finland, as you know, and we
will also try to show from the Nordic country
side how you can have a regional
cooperation on practical issues to try to get
these countries to cooperate
with each other, which is sometimes difficult when
you are a new sovereign
country. You want to express your independence, your
own national
institutions, and then of course you are sometimes a little less
happy to
share with your neighboring country which is in the same position.
That is
also why we will have our next annual session in Astana, the new
capital of
Kazakhstan in early July or late June next year. That's also why I'm
personally supporting the idea that Kazakhstan should have the chairmanship in
OSCE (inaudible).
Kazakhstan is not the perfect democracy. No country in
Central Asia is
that. There are also some others of these I've described
where democracy has
not yet taken root. But I think we all are a work under
construction, and
engagement is part of that. That's why I am so strongly
supportive of this idea
of the chairmanship, but also sovereignty support.
Can I add one point that I think is important? Building a sovereign
country
takes time, and to build a democracy you must be a sovereign country
first.
It's powerful democracy building. And sometimes you have to think
through
what are the different stages in it.
Could I just end with two important
things that were brought up by you,
and that is about the parliamentary
dimension? It's very simple. It's like
children. They don't do what the
parents say; they do what the parents do. And
if we on the OSCE say that
parliamentary dimension, strong democratic oversight
is important, should we
have that in our own organization? It's not more
complicated than that.
You need parliaments not only for making laws and taking budgets, but to
control power, for power must be controlled. That is the essence of democracy,
and I think that we need to see to it that we have a proper parliamentary
dimension in our own organization, an open democratic organization that has a
scrutiny that should be there for everyone. And so I think that is extremely
important.
It's also important when you look at the internal machinery.
And you
referred to that -- that the role of the Parliamentary Assembly as an
institution in OSCE is extremely important. Oversight does not mean
micromanagement. Administrations are there to be an executive, but oversight is
control that things are done in the correct way.
Could I add one
personal word? I was previously running opposition chair
of the constitution
committee in the Swedish parliament, and we scrutinized the
Swedish government
handling of the tsunami catastrophe in Thailand or in the
Indian Ocean. As a
matter of fact, Sweden was the hardest hit country in Europe
-- of course,
much less than the countries there -- but the handling of that
catastrophe we
scrutinized in parliament.
And that was extremely important to show
responsibility, of course, but
also for the future, because that's the whole
idea with scrutiny. Governments
don't like to make the mistakes twice, if
they are smart.
Could I then end with a word of election monitoring? That
is an important
part of the work of the Parliamentary Assembly. We have
observed about 90
elections throughout the years, I would say. More than
2,000 parliamentarians
have been there, and I think that this is one of the
important things in the
construction of a democratic Europe -- to observe the
elections.
But we had a problem, as you know, with the ODIHR, when it
comes to the
internal cooperation with organizations. We should do this
together, and if you
do it together, you should be open. You should do it in
a trustful way, not
having internal difficulties.
There is a way to sort
this out. It's called the cooperation agreement.
It was established long
before you and I, Mr. President, were in charge of our
Parliamentary Assembly
back in 1997. And we have scrupulously from our
parliamentary side followed
that. I'm sorry to say that has not been from the
other side. Now we need to
sort that out. That is extremely important to do
that.
Could I end with
one particular word to you as democratically elected
parliamentarians from the
United States? We need you in OSCE Parliamentary
Assembly. We need you in
other parliamentary assemblies. We need you taking
part in the international
world. We know that you have tough schedules in your
country, in your
parliament. You are extremely busy. I've seen the schedule.
But see to
it that you have the time to participate with other
parliamentarians, to
discuss, to meet -- not only to rush into a meeting and
rush out again, but
having a cup of coffee or a drink or sitting at night to
contemplate over
things. We need you there, and I think there should be ways to
see that you
can make congressmen and senators able to participate even more.
We would
appreciate from the rest of us.
Thank you.
HASTINGS: Mr. Zergo
(ph), I last evening read your full remarks and with
your permission and with
unanimous consent of the commission, we will accept
your full statement into
the record. And I appreciate very much your
summarization of those remarks.
I would urge the staff to make sure that we get them up on our website,
because they are illuminating on many of the issues that we may not reach in our
question time.
Just as a follow-up to what you said regarding our
parliamentarian meeting
yesterday, I, as well as others, met with Tunisian
parliamentarians, you'll be
pleased to know. Our Mediterranean partners were
here in America, and I cited
to the fact that you were here and your important
work that you are continuing
in that area -- as well as a potential future
Mediterranean partner, Lebanese
parliamentarians were here yesterday as well,
and I, as well as others, met with
them.
Commissioner Butterfield, thank
you.
We've been joined by the ranking member of the Helsinki Commission,
and we
all, of course, began with opening statements, so if you could give us
a
truncated opening statement, it would be appreciated.
C. SMITH: Well,
I would ask that my whole statement be made a part of the
record.
HASTINGS: Without objection.
C. SMITH: And I won't take the time of the
commission to deliver that,
but just to welcome you, Mr. President and Spencer
Oliver, to the commission.
And thank you for the honor of your presence and
your testimony. And I do have
some questions, but at the appropriate time
I'll pose those.
But you mentioned the idea of checks and balances. The
reason why I was
late, Mr. chairman, was that there was a group of Democrats
and Republicans who
just met with Catholic Church officials to meet on Iraq.
It was scheduled for
an hour and went for an hour and 20 minutes.
And
what we're doing is talking about responsible transition, and these
are a very
eclectic group, a very disparate group of members who don't agree on
very
much, but we're trying to find a way forward on the vexing issue of Iraq.
So
that's what made me late.
But it was a very, very illuminating -- we're
looking at the refugee
issue, the 4.5 million or so refugees. We're looking
at a whole bunch of
issues, because we want, obviously, to protect innocent
human life from what
could be a genocide in Iraq and balancing that with how
quickly can we
transition security to the Iraqi security forces. So it was a
very, very
illuminating discussion, and we're trying to find some way of
working together.
And rather than para-control, sometimes we do
micromanage, and it's a good
thing we do, because a lot of our bills have
micromanagement -- State
Department, Justice Department. We see our role, as
I'm sure you would agree,
as total, absolute co-equals with the executive
branch, and many of our
parliaments need to realize that they are not an
adjunct of the prime minister
or the president for life. They are a co-equal
branch. And so I think your
point there was very well taken.
Thank you.
HASTINGS: Thank you very much.
Commissioner Butterfield, you joined
us, and I'll allow you an even more
truncated statement than Mr. Smith's.
BUTTERFIELD: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. You and I have that in
common. I have a tendency to be brief anyway.
Spencer, good to see you
again.
Mr. President, thank you very much for coming.
Mr. Chairman,
thank you for your leadership.
I'm happy to be here today. I've had three
meetings this morning, and I
apologize for being late, but welcome.
Thank you. I yield back.
HASTINGS: Thank you very much.
Following
what Representative Smith said, Mr. President, I think you know
of all of our
deep concern about the humanitarian and security crisis resulting
from the
massive flow of Iraqi refugees into neighboring countries, including
some
750,000 in OSCE partner state of Jordan. Egypt and Turkey are impacted as
well.
But I want to take this opportunity to thank you and your government
for
accepting more than 12,000 Iraqi refugees for resettlement in Sweden.
Your
country, as I understand it, is just a little over nine million people.
This
would be, then, the equivalent in the United States of accepting more
than
400,000 Iraqi refugees.
Sadly, and I might add pathetically, we've
resettled less than 2,000
refugees from Iraq since 2003. Clearly, in my view
-- and you've heard it
expressed here by Ms. Solis and Mr. Smith -- the United
States has a significant
role and I believe should lead in addressing this
catastrophe.
And for the purpose of my fellow commissioners, I have
introduced
legislation developed in the Helsinki Commission that would provide
substantially increased humanitarian aid for Iraqi refugees and their host
countries, international organizations working in the region and the 2.2 million
internally displaced in Iraq.
One of the things that I find that is a
phenomenon that many policymakers
here don't know is that many of those
internally displaced Iraqis are Christian,
as well as this legislation would
expedite the process and move Iraqi refugees
for resettlement in the United
States.
I'd like your view as to what we can do to encourage other OSCE
participating states and international communities to assist in this effort, but
I'd also like, Mr. President, if you would amplify on the mid-September
meeting
of the chairman-in-office that took place in Spain. And I gathered
from that
meeting and words that came from the chair-in-office that they had
managed to
allow ODIHR and the Parliamentary Assembly to work more
efficiently.
And I just am wondering since that time we've had election
monitoring take
place, and I wonder how you respond to whether the mandate
that evidently was
developed in Spain with Chairman-in-Office Moratinos was
undertaken.
And maybe we could do it this way.
Hilda, if you would
ask a question.
Chris, if you would ask one.
Mike and G.K.
And
Goran's a big boy, and he'll just take them down and maybe address it
all at
one time, rather than interrupt.
So, Hilda, if you would?
SOLIS: I
am just very pleased to hear your report, Mr. President. And
I'm very anxious
also to see how the OSCE can play a bigger role in providing
direction
assistance for the refugees in Iraq. And I commend your country and I
commend
all the work that folks have been doing.
Clearly, we can learn a great
lesson from you. I don't know why we have
our own stalemate here in the House
when we refuse to help resettle refugees and
we know that some of the Iraqis
have family members who live in our states and
in our districts. And we
definitely want to work to play a role to focus that
attention on some of the
members here in our Congress to take more of a
leadership role.
I happen
to have gone to Iraq several months ago and visited with some of
our
counterparts in Jordan and heard there the tremendous impact that the
refugees
in just resettling people -- professionals, by the way, many who were
able to
leave and flee -- but tremendous amount of discrimination that is going
on and
is being inflicted on this population.
And my concern also is with what
has happened in Iraq also in terms of
their constitution and the treatment of
women and how in fact my understanding
is that the constitution has actually
lessened the role of women in government.
And their status in society has
actually been lowered in terms of how they are
categorized in the category
with children and with disabled individuals.
And I was told that by
counterparts there from Iraqi women who served in
their new parliament there,
so to speak. That's the message that we received.
It was very disturbing to
see that our own public here is not fully aware of
what has taken place and
what impact that will have in so many years to come.
I'm very concerned
also about the food shortage that is also occurring out
there. This is
something that I'm sure is happening in many other countries
that are faced
with these kinds of dilemmas. But the fact that there's a food
shortage, that
we are not appropriately seeing food items also being
administered, because
there are rogue militia that are confiscating the
foodstuff. So we heard from
Sunni representatives who were saying that they
were being punished also
indirectly and were not receiving foodstuff.
So that's another crisis that
I think we need to focus in on. And I know
maybe I'm going off a bit here
from our role, but I think that this is such a
compelling issue for all of us
here in the United States and certainly in
Europe. Every time we travel to
Europe, I'm constantly being told what is the
United States doing about
addressing Iraq besides coming to closure on the war
there, but helping to
provide assistance. And how can we do that better in the
structure of the
OSCE?
HASTINGS: Thank you.
Chris?
C. SMITH: Thank you very
much, Mr. Chairman.
Very briefly, again, Mr. President, thank you again
for being here. I'm
going to leave for a hearing that started at 10, and I'm
ranking there as well,
on reauthorization of a law that I wrote in 2000, the
Trafficking Victims
Protection Act, emphasizing prosecution protection and
prosecution prevention
and protection -- what we're all trying to do
throughout the OSCE region.
I've been in shelters all over the world --
Nigeria, Peru, all of the
Asian countries, Bosnia, Russia, Italy, Ukraine,
Romania -- and I've been to
those both faith-based and those that were more
secular oriented. And both
offer, I think, a tremendous opportunity for
reconciliation for the women.
There is a bias I find, though, against
faith-based among some people.
And I would hope that we could address just
how important it is that as we deal
with the physical and mental catastrophe
that these women face, that very often
there is a profound spiritual hole in
her life for these trafficked women
especially that only a faith intervention
can help to fill.
The brokenness is so profound, so complete, and in the
shelters I've seen
the faith-based component very often can address that, and
I think we need to
integrate our efforts on dealing with that.
On the
Roma, we all know there was a Warsaw meeting on the human
dimension, a full
day spent on the Romani participation in the Parliamentary
Assembly. Maybe
you want to speak to that.
Belarus -- we all try to encourage that if
Belarus were to become part of
the Parliamentary Assembly, they need to lead
up to certain standards and
benchmarks. They came in (inaudible) whether or
not their delegation in
particular is at least beginning to catch the good
infection about democracy and
human rights.
And finally, on
anti-Semitism. Our deep concern of this commission --
it's bipartisan -- that
that scourge never again -- and the rising tide of anti-
Semitism and our
special efforts that the Parliamentary Assembly has made. Your
thoughts on
that.
HASTINGS: Mike?
MCINTYRE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr.
Lennmarker, my concern is about Russia, and within that discussion,
would you
address action taken recently by Russia, supported by several other
countries
-- Armenia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan and others -- that put
forward a
draft decision for the Madrid ministerial talking about having
basically a one
size fits all to observation of elections, a maximum of 50
observers. And
this appears to be the culmination of several years of Russian
efforts to
undercut OSCE election observation.
I wonder how you suggest that we
respond to that. And along that line
specifically, has OSCE been invited to
the upcoming Duma elections?
And we all know that President Putin has been
taking certain actions in
Russia that concern all of us. Do you think there's
any chance that Russia
might leave the organization? If they were to, do you
think that would affect
other countries that might follow their lead?
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
HASTINGS: Thank you.
Mr. Butterfield?
BUTTERFIELD: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My question is a very basic
question.
I've looked at the names of the participating members of the House,
and it
looks like there are nine of us who are on the commission, and I am the
junior
of the nine, and so I'm still engaged in the learning process.
I've
traveled to the assembly on two occasions, and I don't get the sense
that the
assembly is as strong as it could be in Europe. And I guess my
question is a
very basic one, and that is does Europe really need the OSCE? And
if so, what
can we do to enhance the organization and to give it more visibility
and to
give the states more of an opportunity to play a more prominent role in
this
organization?
I want to deal with it from a very basic perspective. And I
hope I'm
wrong, but I don't get the feeling that we have the prominence that
we deserve.
Thank you.
HASTINGS: (OFF-MIKE)
LENNMARKER: Thank
you. Could I then just try to make rather short
remarks? I can do it before
we have to leave.
HASTINGS: (OFF-MIKE)
Thank you, Madam Reporter.
We've initiated a process where people in the audience have an opportunity
to ask a question. I'm reading this for the first time. It said: "You call
Kazakhstan a work under construction in terms of democratic progress. Can you
explain how you think Kazakhstan's taking the chairmanship in '09 would assist
this work under construction? What chance is there that their progress would be
slowed if they are, quote, 'rewarded,' unquote, with the chairmanship?"
I apologize, Goran, but I do like for people who come to our hearings to
have
an opportunity to have something to say sometimes.
LENNMARKER: Thank you.
I think that's the whole idea. We have tough
questions, and we try to answer
them.
Could I start with Iraq? It's important for all of us to see to it
that
we give possibility for refugees from Iraq to come to seek shelter. That
is
certainly the position of my country -- parliament and government alike --
that
we have a responsibility to do that.
Sweden is, then, roughly like
New York, I guess, population-wise. So I
think you can refer to that. And
you said 12,000, Mr. President. I guess it's
more 20,000 nowadays. It's
rapidly increasing, I can tell you.
And there are two things I think
important. One is, of course, to lead my
example. It's easy to say nice
words, but it is more difficult to live up to
your word. And I think that is
the role of our country that said, "Yes, we have
to do it."
We try also
to get other countries in Europe, not only in the European
Union, to be more
open, which is, again, very difficult, because there is a
debate on migration.
That is in some countries not very pleasant, I can tell
you. And in that
circumstance, I think that's important.
The other is to have a functioning
labor market so that people can get
into jobs. That is what we found is the
most important thing. When you come to
a country, you are prepared to
contribute to the country you come to. And if
you have a functioning labor
market, they can do that soon. That is far more
easier -- far more easier
than when you have the feeling that they steal our
jobs or whatever -- which
is sad, which is sad, I can tell you.
And not least, of course, also if
you add to that, they come to a culture
that is not so close to your own.
That, of course, adds to the problem. You
know, for example, that if you have
an Arabic name, it's more difficult to get a
job -- you know that for sure --
than if you have a Swedish name, because that's
how it functions in reality.
And we're trying to do that.
Certainly, we also in the OSCE Parliamentary
Assembly (inaudible) have
focused a lot on that. We had recently a conference
together with the chairman-
in-office in Cordoba in Spain focusing on
discrimination on the Muslims which
are there in Europe. This is also part of
the question to finding techniques as
legislators, not as micromanagement,
perhaps, but also see to it that our
administrations can handle this.
Mr. Hastings, you asked about the 19th of July. Spencer, Oliver and I
myself,
together with the leadership of ODIHR and also the chairman-in-office
met in
Madrid to sort out and to underline the importance of keeping to the
agreements that we have done. And we also put some very concrete things that we
should do for the upcoming two elections that were very close. One was in
Kazakhstan in mid-August. The other was more than two weeks ago in Ukraine.
And I'm sorry to say, but I say it openly, that they did not fulfill what
we
agreed on. We were particularly disturbed that we were not allowed to share
the long-term observers report on which we base the verdict of an election. And
that is not acceptable.
Could I say when it comes to Chris's -- he had
to leave -- but
trafficking is certainly a big problem. And I would say it's
not only for the
countries where the victims come from. He mentioned
(inaudible) countries.
I can go to my own constituency -- Stockholm. We
have had cases where
girls have been imprisoned, living under miserable
conditions. It's also our
responsibility on so to say the receiving side --
or whatever you say -- on the
(inaudible) countries and the countries of
origin to work together, because it's
not enough to be in shelters -- which is
important, and I agree fully on that.
That is where the game stops.
But
it is also for us in countries where the girls come to to see to it
that we
have vigorous law enforcement there, and also to really understand that
this
is a serious crime. Because to be true, there are in Europe -- perhaps
also
in the United States; I don't know -- those who don't think it is a real
crime. They look through the fingers, as we say. They don't prosecute as it
should be, and I think this is an extremely important job. We had to do that
back home, and I am sorry to say in my own constituency in Sweden, we have work
to do on this matter.
When it comes to the Roma, one particular point we
learned during the Serb
election was how to introduce Roma into the political
process. This is the best
example I've seen to bring in the Roma into the
election process. We were all
impressed by that. Still, it is a big problem
by those Roma who are not
integrated in Serb society in this case. And, of
course, it goes for any
society. But there are those who are trying seriously
to do this, and I commend
that.
When it comes to Belarus, I would say
that we had one moment in the
history of the Parliamentary Assembly in Kyiv,
as it's called in Ukrainian -- I
just underline that -- when we had what I
think is an example of the good work
of the Parliamentary Assembly.
It
was about the parliamentarians from Belarus representing the north
democratic
parliament in Belarus but having to defend and to debate -- having to
defend
and debate what was that in the resolution of Belarus. Isn't that how it
should be? Instead of not coming or locking the door, they had to participate
in the debate. And that I think is extremely important. That is why I am a
passionate believer in contacts, even with regimes that are not very pleasant.
But usually in such regimes also you have some people that are more open.
Perhaps you can influence them more. We don't know that for sure, but I think
that we must do that.
Anti-Semitism, of course, coming from Europe, the
big shame of Europe --
perhaps the darkest hour in mankind happened some 60
years ago. Anti-Semitism
still is a problem, but I would add, though, that
anti-Islamic is also a big
problem. And some people utter things about the
Muslims that if you change the
word from Muslim to Jew, then we would realize
how it sounds. I just want to
say that, not diminishing the problem with
anti-Semitism -- not at all. I think
we're not in the league of comparing
things, but to put that into that.
Congressman McIntyre, election
observation. When it comes to the Duma
elections, I certainly hope that we
will be able to observe them. We have not
yet gotten an official invitation,
but rumors are that we will get one. But I
cannot confirm that as yet.
The idea that this would have some sort of a political control over
election
observation -- that is absolutely not acceptable. You cannot have a
vote or a
veto on whether an election is correct or not. It should be
independent.
That's why we have this very good construction of our
Parliamentary Assembly
together with ODHIR doing this.
And independent parliamentarians, usually
on the bipartisan you would call
it, or multipartisan even, are greatly agreed
on the judgment of an election.
Of course, we want to see fair and free
elections. We also know, some of us,
because we are elected people, how we
should observe elections. We also have
the legitimacy of being elected, which
is extremely important, I would say.
Civil servants are important to serve
and to help us and to help us sort
out things, but it is ultimately the
judgment of elected politicians to make
these verdicts, and that's why it's so
important that we give parliamentary
dimension when it comes to election
observation. But again, Congressman
McIntyre, no -- no political vetting of
election observation. That would be the
kill of the whole idea of
independent.
I don't think Russia will leave us. That will be a big
mistake, because
the OSCE is needed.
And now I go to your question,
Congressman Butterfield, that OSCE might
not be that important in a
well-established western democracy. But in countries
that are focused on
their own development, building their democracy, fighting to
get a noncorrupt
society foot -- corruption is a big, big problem in some of the
new eastern
democracies and non-democracies -- there, of course, the OSCE is
badly needed.
I spoke earlier before you had the possibility to arrive about the
enormous OSCE presence in the Western Balkans, in Bosnia Herzegovina, in Serbia,
in Kosovo. The biggest mission there is in Kosovo. It was recently 1,400
people in the OSCE mission dealing with democracy building, I would say, in the
broadest. There OSCE is badly needed. Go out there. Visit the missions and
you will see that it is extremely important.
And I will say, as I
underlined before, in Central Asia that OSCE is
extremely important there. We
have deficiencies. We just described this about
the cooperation or sometimes
lack of cooperation when it comes to election
monitoring. There has been
perhaps in Vienna more focus sometimes on the inner
deliberations or the inner
things of the organization instead of what we get out
of it.
And I agree
with -- I guess it was Mr. Hastings who said that the need to
be more of a
political oversight from the ministries, from the governments and
from the
parliamentarians on the OSCE work -- it has gone down, so to say, on
the list
of priorities. And then, of course, their ministers tend not to follow
it as
closely as they should. But again, I think that is important.
Finally,
Kazakhstan. I think that those who will say that there might be
risk -- life
is not a risk-free game. But if we are to see to it that Central
Asia is
engaged, that we have sovereignty support, that we try to strengthen
those
strands of society that are wishing to have a western type of society, we
must
aid them to take that risk. That is my judgment. I cannot guarantee.
Nobody
can. But we need to do that. That is my firm judgment.
HASTINGS:
(OFF-MIKE) There were two additional questions dealing with
Kazakhstan, and
with your permission, I would very much like to submit them to
you, and then
when you answer them, we can publish it on our website, and the
first person
that put them right there will receive them that way.
Of course, we've
been joined also by Commissioner Aderholt, who you know
has been very active.
And Robert, if you just wanted to have an abbreviated word, since you did
get here.
ADERHOLT: Yes, thank you. I'm sorry. I had a couple of
conflicts at the
same time, but I want to thank you for being here this
morning, and I'm sorry I
came in late, but thank you for the work that you do
in your role at OSCE, and
we thank you for being here this morning.
As
you know, the schedule is always very unpredictable around here, but a
lot of
things that I -- the Kazakhstan thing was something that I was wondering
about
as well, so I look forward to your answers on that to look for how we move
forward on that. So thank you again for being here.
HASTINGS: Thank you
very much, Mr. President. And this hearing is
adjourned. And we will see you
at noon, Robert, if you have time. We're in the
members' dining room. You
stop in and chat with us.
ADERHOLT: Thank you.
[Whereupon the
hearing ended at 10:30 a.m.]
END
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